So these are basically my thoughts on your thoughts, thinking about it from the perspective that nick is town. And this is basically why I didn't consider your "case" to be a real case.
aj wrote:He's basically said he won't work well with others no matter what, and won't consider their opinions until they're dead.
This is not actually what nick was saying.
The conversation was about whether mac is scum or not. bnb responded to TD saying that she could read mac because they were in a hydra and when she thought mac was scum she'd say so. nick responded back saying that he trusted his own reads (a mac scum read) over the reads of someone who he doesn't know is town.
But hey, even if this
was
nick saying that he doesn't work well with others and won't consider their opinions until they're dead, so what? How does that benefit scum-nick in any way? Especially if bnb is town, that just puts a fucking target on his back for bnb to keep an eye on him.
aj wrote:Another post of nick trying to be generally unhelpful, although this one is slightly more telling if he has a noticeable difference in town/scum meta. When Mollie mentions she has meta on Nick, Nick completely blows her off again.
This is an example of where I think you're completely misreading or ignoring the tone of the posts. The snarky attitude probably has a lot more to do with playstyle and nothing to do with alignment.
I can
maybe
see you thinking that perhaps nick was being snarky because he's scum and they legitimately can't meta him to know this... But you didn't say this, so I'm not actually sure what your point was here.
Again, another thing that doesn't benefit nick-scum in any way.
aj wrote:1st quote section: That's not even close to what Mastin was doing. Nick's basically misrepped Mastin here.
*shrug* That was his interpretation of it, and I can see how he possibly thought mastin was doing nothing more than buddying. mastin spent a majority of d1 claiming he's obvtown, assuring people he's town, etc. It wasn't exactly a misrepresentation, just a different interpretation.
aj wrote:He constantly bugs Mastin about how mastin is faking confidence and therefore is lying. Ergo, nick suggests, LaL. Confidence is something that can be faked and not be indicative at all to anything. I mean, mastin's already told us that he's having a bit of issues getting into the game here, and personally, his confidence is a lot better than someone just reading 'null this, null that, null all the things'.
Well, he wasn't suggesting LaL. He did have a problem with how mastin was feigning confidence in his reads while admitting he wasn't confident in his read.
I think it's a bad reason to think mastin is scum, but I can see where nick was coming from. Compound this with mastin not having any arguments or case for nick being scum, and it's not hard to see why he could have been suspicious of mastin.
I questioned mastin myself several times d1 on the reasons he thought nick was scum and never got a response from him about it. He shrugged it off every time.
So yeah, I can understand why nick would be irked by mastin feigning confidence in his nick scum read...
aj wrote:First, we see he DISLIKES Rach's read list (which, fyi, is worse than anything Mastin put up this game), but denies that Rach is a good d1 lynch
I understood his reasoning for this. As he explained in
1504, RM may have been acting scummy but it was a lynch based on little information and even if she flipped scum, there would be very few interaction tells. While I disagree with him, I can see where he's coming from, and I don't think this opinion is alignment indicative.
It's the same reason it's hard to push through a lynch on any lurker D1. Regardless of how scummy you think a particular lurker is, you may be wrong. And even if you're right, there's little information you can discern from their ISO. <- general theory I don't necessarily agree with myself, but I know others might think this.
But you acknowledge that this is the reason in the last part of your 'case' anyway.
aj wrote:saying they should be lynching mastin (off of wagon support formed from that '5 scum' comment mastin had). But,
... For someone that talks about nick misrepresenting mastin, I find it ironic that you took a post from the end of the day where it was obvious mastin wasn't going to be lynched, and pretended this is some sort of proof that nick contradicted himself or something.
aj wrote:First, he suggests leaving a 'scummy player' around to get a better read on her
This is the one thing (like I mentioned in
2966) that I'm trying to figure out and makes sense from the perspective nick and RM are scum together. It is entirely possible he was suggesting this to protect his buddy. Perhaps because she was a mad scientist and could possibly useful to keep around for at least an extra day.
I'm currently thinking this isn't the case, though (obviously). Mostly because I thought this was an opinion of his (based on his own mafia theory ideas) and wasn't something he was trying to push in order to save RM.
I'm also currently thinking this isn't the case because, like venmar, there were more viable counterwagons than mastin and he never really took the opportunity to jump on any of them.
And I'm also currently thinking that it was just too blatant to make sense as scum partners.
aj wrote:: Artificial reads. This really isn't true. Mastin had been giving and re-explaining reads all day.
No. You're ignoring the main read mastin
NEVER
explained. The nick scum read. Despite being asked multiple times, he never explained it. He shrugged it off and said "the whole iso is scummy" the one time he responded to a request to explain the nick suspicion.
Also, mastin's reads
did
look artificial, and anyone who thinks this isn't the case has something wrong with them. His reads were
all based on interaction, not on the content people were posting
.
