Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

he could have tried to discredit the cases with more than "rm is town coz meta".

This is how town would try to discredit a case. That's the point I'm making.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Eye on the prize, town. Lets lynch nickscum and then save the dick swinging for tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

This is how town would try to discredit a case. That's the point I'm making.

no. that is an issue of playstyle. and you're being selective here, because

nobody

who was against the RM wagon d1 did anything more than venmar did in response to the cases against RM.

just as an example of how selective you're being and how weak your case on venmar is, out of interest, do you think TD is scum for the way he's talked about the nick wagon today?

[Faster Than Light]

Eye on the prize, town. Lets lynch nickscum and then save the dick swinging for tomorrow.

NOT UNTIL HE PRESENTS HIS MALA CASE.

[Faster Than Light]

Also, Andy's not too shabby at League. He's a solid support.

[Aj The Epic]

I'll do so tomorrow as well, but besides Mastin, I trust the Nick wagon as a whole more than the Mala wagon.

Who are you talking about specifically here, and why does this matter when you think mala is scum much more strongly than you think nick is (to the point that you've admitted you have doubts about nick because of your other scum reads)

Also, how the fuck is sheeping your town reads even a legitimate excuse. This is fucking lazy, and just serves as an excuse. If nick flips town, you have th convenient, "oh, I thought my town reads were right!" excuse.

It worries me that you've seemingly become more and more confident with this nick lynch without much reason.

So I asked BnB if they would help with Mala tomorrow IF I helped with Nick today.

I hate this reasoning so much, and this is the reason I will never be part of a town bloc. Trying to set up lynches like this is fucking dumb.

But hey, since we're in the habit of setting up lynches, if nick

and

mala are consecutively lynched today and tomorrow and both flip town, I want AJ dead the following day, no questions asked.

1. I assume you're asking who I'm trusting on Nick? BROseidon, Trust Fund, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mutleyddmc are all town reads of mine or essential confirmed town. What does it matter here? The ONLY REASON Mala picks any support here today is because of some 'gambit' that I really, really, really don't like testing. Nick changes his whole damn read just to vote mala and hasn't presented a case ('tonight' was days ago) that FTL seems to be waiting for. I don't like today's components of the Mala wagon besides ghostlin/mastin. Even if I'm reading FTL as town, I don't trust him with this gambit and it was evident at the begining of the day that we weren't going to lynch Mala by traditional methods at the start of the day.

I've invested my time into putting a case forth for why Nick could easily be scum. Lest you forget I had the first vote on Nick in the game and had him as a scum read the whole time. If you remember, my issue was that I couldn't find where he fit. So no, Nick isn't a town read by any stretch of the mind, I'm just not nearly as confident as I am with Mala.

2. I'm not a fan of them either, but I CAN'T get enough mala support as is. Even if I'm on that wagon right now, we have five votes to her, two of which really suck (FTL, Nick). Five votes is not a lynch. There are diehard advocates of Malascum, but as of now, there are four (Ghostlin, Mastin, myself, Bro). Mala is not town, but I hate this gambit enough to go after possible buddies until Varsoon decides that this gambit isn't the way to go.

Lynch me if they both flip town? Well, I'll probably kill myself if Mala flips town at this point, so don't bother.

[zMuffinMan]

I assume you're asking who I'm trusting on Nick?

no i don't care if you have some town reads on the nick wagon (and how questionable those town reads are is another matter altogether), i'm asking who you are talking about on the mala wagon.

now we have a couple things here. you think mala is scum. you think mala is far more likely scum than nick (at least, this is what i've gathered from your posts). you think nick doesn't make sense as scum with mala. you see far more evidence to suggest mala is scum. but you're voting nick because you "trust" the nick wagon more.

so i asked you why you think this. and you gave me some town reads on the nick wagon which i don't give a shit about. i'm asking who on the mala wagon you

don't

trust, and why some town reads being on the nick wagon is justification for voting there.

and so far all i've seen from you is you saying "well if i lend my support there today they'll help me lynch mala tomorrow" which is a fucking bullshit excuse.

you said you have additional reasons to think nick is scum, and have thought so since d1, but they're so weak they're laughable. and i've already talked in depth about why i think this. and have not seen you justify your position on why nick is scum reasonably. i broke down exactly why i thought this in 3089 which you ignored or didn't read.

quite literally, the only legitimate reason i've seen from you for voting nick today is that what he said about the RM wagon could conceivably be something that makes sense as scum. *clap* *clap*

i mean, at least you put more effort in than most of the other people on the wagon, but don't pretend you have a legitimate reason for thinking nick is scum over mala. and don't pretend that having some town reads on the nick wagon is justification for voting him.

but I CAN'T get enough mala support as is.

this is a pathetic excuse after what happened d1.

[Faster Than Light]

metal sonic has read until this page



V/La 4 days yyipppee

[Venmar]

yeah im afk

[BROseidon]

no. that is an issue of playstyle. and you're being selective here, because nobody who was against the RM wagon d1 did anything more than venmar did in response to the cases against RM.

NS is IC and SoS flipped town. Are you trying to tell me that nobody discrediting the wagon was scum?

Also I hate how TD is playing today, but his day 1 play at least demonstrated some level of towniness. Venmar doesn't have that.

[Desperado]

Des (null/scum and falling): His entry and his entire work Day 2 is atrocious compared to Day 1. Seriously, dude, it's like you've not read the thread at all when you came back from your only 36 hour hiatus.

Dude,

what are you talking about?

What you're referring to as my "entry" into D2 was my 13th post of the day. Can you be more specific?

Your reentry after your 36 hour hiatus was exceedingly weak and poor, and not what I expected from someone who had been trying to keep up with the thread. It made me wince. In a game that's not having a lot that's making me fucking wince, that's pretty bad.

This is your idea of specific?

Muffin asked me who my suspects so I answered him. You took the absence of justification to mean there wasn't any and made up your own, as opposed to asking me why they were my suspects.

What did you expect?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Eye on the prize, town. Lets lynch nickscum and then save the dick swinging for tomorrow.

NOT UNTIL HE PRESENTS HIS MALA CASE.

I hope you understand that behavior such as your own is the reason scum can get away with lurking wagons away.

[zMuffinMan]

NS is IC and SoS flipped town. Are you trying to tell me that nobody discrediting the wagon was scum?

it is a possibility i'm actually seriously considering, as unlikely as it might be. of the people that voiced any sort of strong opinion against rm, i think mala seems the most likely scum, but i don't even have very strong feelings about mala being scum so i'm not sure. there are players like trust fund who apparently thought rm was scum all d1 but never voted her until the wagon on andrius died. there are players who held no strong opinion one way or another and avoided conversations about her (either because they were not active like you, or because they simply weren't talking about her much). i also find it extremely unlikely that no scum was bussing dead weight RM, and find it far more likely that scum would have voiced support for the RM wagon than opposed it. the only reason i could see scum protecting RM, or trying to derail that wagon, is if they really valued her role. because otherwise, she was perfect bus material.

Also I hate how TD is playing today, but his day 1 play at least demonstrated some level of towniness. Venmar doesn't have that.

td was

one

example of why your reasons for thinking venmar are scum are extremely weak.

if your only point against venmar is that there were probably scum opposing the RM lynch, and you think venmar is one of them because... then all i can really ask is why you think that, because i haven't seen you really justify it with anthing other than bringing up quotes (that are similar to those of anyone not on the RM wagon) and suggesting he's scum but others aren't. *shrug*

[mastin2]

Off-topic, buuuuut...

If scum manages to play well enough to keep an IC around till lylo, ns or not, I think they deserve the win for being that good.

Or even better, endgaming the IC. Nothing more awesome than that.


Now, on-topic...

Ghostlin: So, to simplify things... You've got townreads on Muffin, FTL, notscience, myself, BeautyAndTheBeast, sorta-Nacho, sorta-Mac, Sorta-Mutley, and sorta-Andrius. You've got a null-read on AJ and scumreads on nick, Desperado, Trust Fund, TiphaineDeath, Venmar, and Malakittens. Is this correct?

Essentially correct, yes. BRO fell off again. BRO's a null--I can't say with certainty he's scum, but I can't cite any kind of behavior or post that's makes me fucking secure about BRO, and he's neither pissed me off or reached out to me. This in and of itself bothers me, kind of like AJ.

Alright. I'm willing to work with you minus Ven and TD particularly since they're minor reads--they're more things that are bothering me than 'rawr, scum'. My problem is a lack of certainty, not necessarily a lack of fucking consistency, I want all the scum dead. So let's hash this out.

How do you feel about the Mala/Nick pushes, and which one do you feel I should be pushing more. I've been focused on Mala most of today and I'm nervous at the Nick L-1 only because of self-hammer/scum-hammer before he squeals all the information or we finish talking this day.

Good with both, but prefer Mala over Nick. I'm more interested in the Desperado read, in particular, and also the Trust Fund one (though not as much there). Plus, more on AJ. Oh, and the townreads on Nacho, Mac, and Andrius.

Bro's case on me is BS and fabricated in every way possible. He's probably being obtuse on purpose since anyone with a brain could read my interaction with RM as town.

you know when it's all said and done.
i'm probably gonna vote you until you're dead.

Again, I'll emphasize this. A town-Nacho would be trusting my townread on Venmar. (For that matter, if a town BROseidon wanted to work with me, I think he would, too. ) He isn't. Thus, he's scum.

Really, now. This isn't a scumtell that's applicable to a lot of people, which makes it all the more potent when it

does

apply. Nacho's not synching up with me at all. The town-Nacho has gone out of his way to hash out reads with me before. We coordinated them, had lengthy talks about them, in games previous to this one. For instance, Mob Money (or was it Mob Justice? The one I was town in, modded by T-Bone. ) had me at times be paranoid of Nacho, sure--but even then, even despite the paranoia, we worked together. Here, though? Here...he's brushing me off and ignoring me.

I'd be ecstatic if Nacho were town. But this. is. not. the. town-Nacho. I. know.

Hey, Mastin, why is this guy Town again?

Because I said so.

[6] mastin2 (Venmar, Trust Fund, BROseidon, nickthename, TiphaineDeath, Skullduggery)
^Since it was brought up. I actually don't see this as a scum-driven wagon. The only probable names on there for scum are BROseidon and nick. Trust Fund is

theoretically

possible, but not very likely. The other names are town.

[Faster Than Light]

Eye on the prize, town. Lets lynch nickscum and then save the dick swinging for tomorrow.

NOT UNTIL HE PRESENTS HIS MALA CASE.

I hope you understand that behavior such as your own is the reason scum can get away with lurking wagons away.

Because quick-lynching Nick sure does get us a shitload of information.
Pressuring everyone SRN to put a vote there is what lets scum get away with lurking on a wagon. If they're SRN, they instantly have alimony and can vote Nick to death. If they're TRN, they're given poise to just sit around and be all "Meeeeh, it's inevitable, why even try anything else~"

Fuck you. I'm trying something else, and so are plenty of people. If you can somehow declare that this day would've been better if it ended 600 posts ago, then you need to re-evaluate how important all the info we've gained since then is. You're actively denouncing playing the game at hand, and generation of content, all because you're sure you got scum. You know what? I was sure of that shit, too. At the windup of this day, I was positive that Nick was scum, but at least I had the humility and the consideration to do scum hunting outside of pushing that wagon alone until the day ended. I'd like to think what I've done since then has produced lots of content that'll help town get a victory in this game, too. We've gotten excellent contributions from Mastin, Nick, Nacho, Desperado, zMuffin, B&B and more that, while they might not advance town agendas, certainly help us read other players as well as those that I named--ESPECIALLY when we start getting flips from lynches and kills.

So, yeah, continue to bemoan my play. At least I'm playing, damn it. Even if it isn't the 'game' you are playing.

Pic Related: The Nick Wagon

[Faster Than Light]

Lol, I wrote alimony.
I don't know what I meant there, but it's some a-word that indicates they'd be vindicated in their vote, yo.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

That's Charles Barkley in a Gumby suit.

-V

[BROseidon]

(For that matter, if a town BROseidon wanted to work with me, I think he would, too. )

Let's flesh out the Venmar read, then. Why are you reading him as town.

[Faster Than Light]

Can I participate in this discussion, BRO?
I've got mixed feelings 'bout Venny.

-V

[zMuffinMan]

At least I'm playing, damn it.

this game would be fun if there weren't approximately ten people currently not playing the game.

[BROseidon]

Can I participate in this discussion, BRO?
I've got mixed feelings 'bout Venny.

-V

Sure. Where do your mixed feelings stem from?

[Faster Than Light]

At least I'm playing, damn it.

this game would be fun if there weren't approximately ten people currently not playing the game.

Name them.

[Faster Than Light]

Can I participate in this discussion, BRO?
I've got mixed feelings 'bout Venny.

-V

Sure. Where do your mixed feelings stem from?

His claim throws me off, because it makes sense for him to claim it as both scum and as town.
His early points against mastin reek of scum (649 is really the only place he advances his mastin case, and despite that, he's building a fence by the time he posts 775).
He never really elaborates on why he's scum-reading me or Nick. This feels especially wrong when he pulls back his read on me a bit when my hydra posits that he's null-lean-town, and his short-lived support of the Nick wagon.
He flagrantly stood out against the Rach wagon.
He's been deflecting a lot, but what's weirder is that it feels like he's all over the place and playing into the main reason I called him town (isolated, individualistic, loud play).
A lot of his votes today are not articulated at all.
Overall, his average post is "Fuck you, this town needs to X. Vote [RandomPlayer]." It isn't consistent in the least. Dude's all over the place. I'm pretty much with Metal on this one now, he's null-lean-scum or VI.


-V

[mastin2]

Why are you reading him as town.

Because I am.

Near the end of D1, Venmar had a reach-out to me, and me to him. We came to an understanding of one another, and realized we were both town. And you can trust me on that.

[Faster Than Light]

Why are you reading him as town.

Because I am.

Near the end of D1, Venmar had a reach-out to me, and me to him. We came to an understanding of one another, and realized we were both town. And you can trust me on that.

To me, it seemed like he put you down as scum, but was wheeling back on it and wanted some validation from a second party so that he could change that read.