A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Nautilius]

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN GOOD THINGS FROM ME

[Tierce]

Give me those QTs. Convince me this wasn't a blatant scum slip from SafetyDance with you as his partner.

In the meantime, I need to go move the pug that decided my pillow was where he wanted to sleep. Night.

[Nautilius]

Nope, no good gifs for the way we feel.

[Syryana]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SafetyDance

[Eddard Stark]

Day 1, Vc 25

PrideandJoy (1) -

Amrun

kanyeknowsbest (3) -

Andrius, ooba, PeaceBringer

quadz08 (1) -

Cephrir

ooba (4) -

Alfred Borden, quadz08, Goat on a Raft, PrideandJoy

StupendousMan (3)-

Tammy, Messiah Complex, Nautilius

Thor665 (2) -

Benmage, elleheathen

Cephrir (3) -

macmollie, Garruk Relentless, Shadoweh

Alfred Borden (1) -

Thor665

Goat on a Raft (1) -

Zdenek

Andrius (1) -

kanyeknowsbest

Zdenek (1) -

StupendousMan

Garruk Relentless (1) -

SafetyDance

SafetyDance (2) -

Tierce, Syryana

Not voting (0)

- --

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 1st of October at 17:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-01 17:05:01)
  
• Thor and Benmage are V/la

[/quote]

[Garruk Relentless]

Wow, this game is just like the last one.

Lot's of filler posts, egos and meta-gashing . Oh what fun day one. Anyway, yay, caught up on 30+ pages in 2.5 days. \o/

Reads list, mostly gut based and leanings at this stage but it's a start to work with.

Vote: Garruk Relentless

Any particular reason why you voted us though? Or is it all just "gut" after 35 pages of content?

-SSK

[SafetyDance]

I'm confused. What slip? If I'm the one who scumslipped why I am left in the dark over it?

[SafetyDance]

Vote: Garruk Relentless

Any particular reason why you voted us though? Or is it all just "gut" after 35 pages of content?

-SSK

I think you're most likely to flip scum.

You show me someone who has 23 solid reads on all players after 35 pages of "content" and I'll show you a liar.

~tags fixed

[SafetyDance]

Nfi why dem quote tags fucked up.

Mod help?

[Nautilius]

Nautilius can you provide (obviously from completed games) QT threads where Elli has posted? Please and thank you.

I have a thread from three years ago, but I can't think of anything recent; Elli can give you those if he so feels or you can find them yourself. I'll point out that I have a tendency to be active in QT when I'm active in thread as scum, and Elli probably shares that same tendency, so the name that would be all over the scum QT if we were scum would be "Nachomamma8", not "Ellibereth".

[SafetyDance]

Oh, I got elleheathen's name wrong. Meh.

I didn't even realise Ellibereth was part of a hyrda here till reading the playerlist again. I mean, sure, must've read it before to recall the name, but I hadn't/haven't memorized who's in each hydra. I think the only game I had with Ellibereth was Jason's Kingmaker mafia and that was ages ago.

[Thor665]

That I'm voting with my gut - and plainly saying that I'm voting with my gut and state the reasons why it pinged my gut? Or that I'm going on what makes me

feel

like you are scum as opposed to very obvious scumtells - which you point out won't happen anyway because you're a scum expert - why, just look at your scum win ratio! That issue?

Well, you plainly stated you were voting with gut after I pointed out your case was meaningless dribble.
Why waste our time if this was the case?
Also, nothing you presented makes any sense as support for a gut case because none of it is scummy - so look past my (scummy) sarcasm (because, when town, I become totally non sarcastic, y'see) and look at what I said.
Then evaluate the gut and see if it still holds water.
If it does, get worried, because that is the job of the kidney.

As to the cops issue:

You basically moan that I agree with you that only one role can find me as scum.
When actually I didn't say this.
You also ignored the plethora of other roles I pointed out could find me as scum, and also how the rolecop one would force you to totally reinvent your case if it came up 'Miller'.
Meanwhile, again ignoring how if I am Scum why I would clarify how many roles my power specifically wouldn't work against...y'know, meaning that those powers are free to check me out at their leisure and I can't use a 'but...Miller!' defense on them. Making it not only a ballsy fakeclaim move if I am scum...but then an intrinsically weak one to attempt.
But, since you're running with the brain in your lower intestinal track...whatevs.
Just don't pretend there is a case or that the reason you aren't addressing my lambast of the case is because it has any merit at all and I'm fine with your stance.

Claim: Innocent Child Miller - Nope. That's me taking that as you trying to convince people that you're somehow conftown, innocent child - when you're not conftown, innocent child and can't be proven conftown innocent child. K.

You are aware that Innocent Child is a PR and that you have agreed that you didn't think I was claiming it...and then whined that I claimed it...right?

If the extent of your issue is that I claimed I was conf. town...that's at least vaguely defensible because people d seem to take issue with that...even though I wasn't aware I had mind control powers based on whatever I wrote, but that has nothing to do with an Innocent Child claim...right?

Can we please have more votes on KKB... do not like the disappearing act in addition

...he's on v/la?

he has been prodded

And was still on v/la...right?
It is weaksauce to have lurk/lack of posts as a prime angle of attack if the target is on v/la, yes?

plz tell us moar about your butthurt thor cos it never ever gets old and I never ever get tired of hearing about it ever.

Quite claiming to have meta awareness of me and I will. :shrug: I mean, can you even link a game that shows you have ever read me correctly or insightfully?

anyways, I was thinking about you today at work and I am thinking that it would be unlike you to claim miller as scum. it is a cheap way to play and I guess I think you would find it unsavory mebbe? not sure if that is right word or not.

I can think of no reason to think I would consider anything beneath me to win as scum.
I've got a link in my sig because I based sig bet around someone flipping scum when I was scum. I wear it with pride.
I'm pretty sure there's even a game that finished in the last few months were I *specifically* said I'd consider a Miller claim out the gate for a lulz win because site meta is to auto-trust the Miller.
But, I'm sure I'm just being "butthurt" and you can read me like a book.

Syry and I talked quite a bit in the neighborhood last night; I feel pretty comfortable calling him town.

Care to share some of the insights that led to that?

If you say that last line while tripping over, it rhymes.

You could have just gone with 'Jolly' I thought the bad rhyme was the joke.

I'm not really sure. I'd love it if someone more familiar could tell me how Thor plays scum.

That would amuse me too.

other people who are pretty much 100% town that not every1 may be ion the same page about: benmage, peacebringer.

I can see an argument for Benmage.
What's the Peacebringer reasoning?

i still feel real bad abt elle but theres some okay stuff in thhere

I think she's kind of bleeding newb town.
Nothing she posts makes sense, but she pretty stridently seems to believe it does, and also isn't scared to fight for those beliefs.
I don't plan to sheep her anytime this century, but think you owe her a stronger town read than you're giving her.
Especially if you think Benny is more town than her.

Thor, do you want to explain to me why you're trying to lynch Alfred?

You found my presented reasoning eventually.
To answer your question - yes, it's basically that his reads and actions don't mesh well.

[Thor665]

I will admit if Safety flips scum, after that last post I'd be game to lynch the Nacho/Elli hydra.

[Benmage]

^What shit "slip" reasoning.

[Benmage]

And since we love site meta.. doesn't MD agree most 'slips' are from town not scum.

[Thor665]

Do they? I've never seen it discussed, personally.

I don't see why you have issue with me using the slip as a connective tell in regards to the defense from it but aren't saying much to the people voting players based off it.
Or is your theory that I'm Safety's scumbuddy and this is a desperate attempt to get some good from his fast approaching lynch?
Because neither stance seems that well reasoned and I sort of feel like you're being belligerent for the sake of belligerence...what's your angle here?

[quadz08]

catching up now

[Cephrir]

vote andrius

Why?

bY 'i WILL POST AFTER WORK' I apparently meant 'I will play cookie clicker alot' sorry. Seeing the word miller drains my will to post.

##Vote: Cephir

Hey dude Ima let you finish but since all of Messiah has been Desperado so far he's pretty obvtown so you should shut the hell up.
Actually I was curious so I iso'd you and tried to guess who you were votng based on how you were cheering for elle and Thor, maybe a pass here and there at other people, and I got way back and saw it was quadz, which I thought was holy shit because I would never have guessed! I was like you put a vote down and forgot about it. That's bad btw.
I don't remember if I still hate quadz actually I haven't seen any of his posts in the last five pages? Its not going anywhere though so eh.

So you're voting me for having a suspicion you believe is incorrect and for still having my vote on quadz because I haven't decided where to put it yet. That's pretty useless.

Spoiler: Cephrir

chesskid and Tierce are probably town; I thought Shadoweh was town but 149 is not so good.

These are the only reads you gave me + Andrius town
Where are the rest?

I feel like I've given out a few more than that? But yes, I have been keeping my reads a bit close to the chest. I've been putting off a Great Reads List because I find them to be kind of annoying and juvenile even though they're a good way to express myself. I'll make another post for this.

I am beginning to believe Shadoweh is indeed town (again), though the softclaiming issue will need to be cleared up at some point before I can be fully comfortable. This is not an invitation to clear it up, of course, just noting.

I think it cleared itself up. Talk to me about Shadoweh.

I don't know whether it has, but I don't care about it right now. I've got them as slightly leaning town at this point. Was stronger after I last mentioned them (sorry for the them but I can't be bothered to check your gender atm) but that vote on me was less than stellar.

Not that I probably have as much experience with her but I'm feeling similarly.

Why did this come up? She currently is post leader #4; what did you expect her to be?

Is she? I wouldn't have guessed, I can hardly remember her doing much of anything useful. This is kinda similar to how I see ffery- "why aren't you obvtown for me yet". I don't really get why she's being townread.

So you're saying you wouldn't? Not that I think this is a gambit even if you're scum.

What? Thor is scum that is a scum miller?

Roles before alignments, remember? So I think it's conceivable. If he had a miller character (I dunno, Joffrey? Jaqen? There are plenty of options) and then rolled scum I imagine his PM would still list him as a miller.

Why do you care what it can accomplish?

When you ask something that accomplishes nothing you are doing nothing to contribute and are either fluff posting or scum. Since it seems like mollie's playstyle involves a decent amount of fluff, I'm going to consider it null.

Why so eager to defend yourself?

You don't let someone off the hook when they provide no reasoning for their suspicion.

Desp, I admire your efforts to put a reasonable case together, but I think you can do much better.

This seems like an awkward way to respond to a case against you.

Wow, this game is just like the last one.

Lot's of filler posts, egos and meta-gashing . Oh what fun day one. Anyway, yay, caught up on 30+ pages in 2.5 days. \o/

Reads list, mostly gut based and leanings at this stage but it's a start to work with.

TOWN
quadz
zednek
amrun
peace
ooba
cephrir
benmage
messiah complex

NULL BLOCK
tierce
tammy
shadoweh
syrana
stupendous

MAFIA
Garruk
nautilius
alfred
ellebereth
kanye
goat
pride
andrius
macmollie
thor

Vote: Garruk Relentless

This list makes no sense whatsoever. And doesn't have a single reason on it even for the guy he's voting. What?

Also if SafetyDance flips scum I am immediately calling for blood and lynching the Nautilius slot for the elleheathen/ellebereth/Ellibereth slip. In fact I am awfully tempted to go there immediately because how the heck do you do that unless Elli is present on your mind due to QT posts. I don't see the first post causing such an impression.

Nacho. You went and drew scum on us?

If it was anyone but Nacho right now I would consider buying into this but I don't think I can accept that he could be scum at the moment.

[Benmage]

Do they? I've never seen it discussed, personally.

I don't see why you have issue with me using the slip as a connective tell in regards to the defense from it but aren't saying much to the people voting players based off it.
Or is your theory that I'm Safety's scumbuddy and this is a desperate attempt to get some good from his fast approaching lynch?
Because neither stance seems that well reasoned and I sort of feel like you're being belligerent for the sake of belligerence...what's your angle here?

There's 2 people voting off it... not very impressed with it either.. but why the Deflection?
-As for theory, I know as scum I love drawing town connections to my scum partners, so yeah if a flip does happen you can paint someone else negatively.
--Especially since its shitty reasoning to suspect Safety, but if Safety does flip scum for other reasoning... trying to draw this as a connective tell is simply shit.

[Shadoweh]

bY 'i WILL POST AFTER WORK' I apparently meant 'I will play cookie clicker alot' sorry. Seeing the word miller drains my will to post.

##Vote: Cephir

Hey dude Ima let you finish but since all of Messiah has been Desperado so far he's pretty obvtown so you should shut the hell up.
Actually I was curious so I iso'd you and tried to guess who you were votng based on how you were cheering for elle and Thor, maybe a pass here and there at other people, and I got way back and saw it was quadz, which I thought was holy shit because I would never have guessed! I was like you put a vote down and forgot about it. That's bad btw.
I don't remember if I still hate quadz actually I haven't seen any of his posts in the last five pages? Its not going anywhere though so eh.

So you're voting me for having a suspicion you believe is incorrect and for still having my vote on quadz because I haven't decided where to put it yet. That's pretty useless.

It's more because you've been voicing suspicions on everyone but quadz afterwards. I find it problematic when I can't guess who a person is voting by reading their continued posts. No idea of your level of suspicions or whether you were thinking of changing your vote before your statement here means it seems like you're purposely staying on the sidelines. I think your suspicion on Messiah looked like you were trying to jump on something that seemed new and easy, giving me deja vu to myself which is bad because I was scum when I had that train of thought. Do you think you were right? Do you want to challenge me with your superior logic? I'd think you were townier if you wanted to fight!

Also my gender is right under my picture, but I appreciate the gender neutralily.

Blah blah roles before alignments forget scum miller, Faraday has had Scum Masons before, I think that's more impressively weird.

ALSO ALSO the forum keeps giving me 504 errors when I want to post. I'm starting to think it doesn't want me to play mafia at all. YOU CAN'T TAKE MY 100% BETTER THEN TAMMY'S STUPID MARRIAGE ROLE FROM ME

[Cephrir]

Town
Nautilus- Ignoring the possible SD slip for the time being. It does look like a slip, but a lot of things look like slips and aren't. Not to mention his defense against it was so incoherent it almost makes me think it's a slip less. Nacho has been pretty absurdly town.
elle- I did start somewhere else on this based on the first few posts, but after her back-and-forth with Thor I'm pretty sure she was town. As Thor said, she really seems to believe her arguments even though sometimes they aren't that great.
Tierce- clear town motivation in nearly every post.
P&J- I really liked what they did post, I just wish they'd do more of it.
Amrun- Little reason to think otherwise, see Tierce except not as consistently so.
Andy- Liked his read list, and I always think faking a PR is a towntell.
Alfred- Reads have gone against the grain on some occasions without being ludicrous; level of effort is townie.
Shadoweh- Pings me every so often, but I like his/her tone. P-edit: post above mine is good.
ooba- I've come around on this one, but needs to post more.

NULL
kanye- I don't get the strong townreads, has not done anything that isn't easy to fake
Zdenek- Getting hung up on things I don't care about
Tammy- Isn't really scumhunting
Peacebringer- Contributions are minimal at best but seems like a playstyle; need to see more here
Goat- accomplishing nothing outside of 620. Has spent more time explaining their previous points than making new ones.
Thor- I don't know what to do with this and am going to trust others for the time being. If I saw most players misrep like this I would powerlynch them but people seem to think it's in character.
mollie- Apparently saying a lot, but it must be a lot of not much. upon iso apparently has strong townreads on thor/syr/tammy/kanye. Ick. Needs to explain positions better.
Syryana- Eh. Apparently passionate about lynching me but refuses to give reasons that aren't silly; expected votes to accumulate on me without doing anything to accumulate them.

SCUMMY
quadz- That one post downgraded him from null and he's given me no reason to change this back.
SD- That reads list is just abysmal.
Messiah- I've discussed this.
Benmage- attacked Andy for the PR, Thor for claiming miller, now defending SD as not having slipped. I'd like to see a reads list from him, because these are all things that scum would worry about if they aren't good at faking scumhunting.
Garruk- Asking a lot of useless questions. Currently voting me for no adequately explored reason. Doesn't seem to be scumhunting.
StupendousMan- I've discussed this and so has Messiah. I like the fact that he just went after an obscure target, but he didn't do it all that well, and I'm also aware that slightly off-kilter suspicions are a quick way to get on my good side.

Now that this exercise has gotten me to determine a top suspect, I may as well

UNVOTE: , VOTE: StupendousMan

[Cephrir]

bY 'i WILL POST AFTER WORK' I apparently meant 'I will play cookie clicker alot' sorry. Seeing the word miller drains my will to post.

##Vote: Cephir

Hey dude Ima let you finish but since all of Messiah has been Desperado so far he's pretty obvtown so you should shut the hell up.
Actually I was curious so I iso'd you and tried to guess who you were votng based on how you were cheering for elle and Thor, maybe a pass here and there at other people, and I got way back and saw it was quadz, which I thought was holy shit because I would never have guessed! I was like you put a vote down and forgot about it. That's bad btw.
I don't remember if I still hate quadz actually I haven't seen any of his posts in the last five pages? Its not going anywhere though so eh.

So you're voting me for having a suspicion you believe is incorrect and for still having my vote on quadz because I haven't decided where to put it yet. That's pretty useless.

It's more because you've been voicing suspicions on everyone but quadz afterwards. I find it problematic when I can't guess who a person is voting by reading their continued posts. No idea of your level of suspicions or whether you were thinking of changing your vote before your statement here means it seems like you're purposely staying on the sidelines. I think your suspicion on Messiah looked like you were trying to jump on something that seemed new and easy, giving me deja vu to myself which is bad because I was scum when I had that train of thought. Do you think you were right? Do you want to challenge me with your superior logic? I'd think you were townier if you wanted to fight!

I can see how you might think the first part. I don't know what seemed easy about jumping onto Messiah. As you can see above, they're still on my mind. Also, I'm pretty sure I was just fighting with Thor if you like fighting. I did let him get the last word because I've figured out I'm not going to be able to read him.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh

: Are you going to marry someone or not?

Please, I'm not a show off. You're not going to see me running around on a honeymoon with some troll.

Cut: I don't think Stupendous has addressed you, do you think he's voting obscure targets just to get on your good side? He doesn't seem well spoken so 'didn't do it well' sounds like 'is bad at mafia'. Looking at your earlier statement on Stupendous (which is hard to find because omfg quote strips) the only one I see is in #842 where you state he reacted awkwardly to MC attacking him. None of these are.. quantative for lack of a better word? What was awkward about his reaction? What was wrong with his case?

I'm ignoring anything to do with Thor as hard as I can, but fighting over role shenanigans doesn't count imo. It's game theory, not mafia talk. As scum I would rather mafia talk for ten pages then have to give an honest opinion on someone, wouldn't you?

[Shadoweh]

*would rather game theory not mafia talk lol

[Benmage]

Benmage- attacked Andy for the PR, Thor for claiming miller, now defending SD as not having slipped. I'd like to see a reads list from him, because these are all things that scum would worry about if they

aren't good at faking scumhunting.

someone doesn't know me very well