Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

ghost, thoughts on just lynching aj today? i realise nacho will most likely kill one of the people making a nacho wagon viable, but it seems a lot easier than the uphill battle of getting nacho lynched with players who call him town but don't talk about why he's town and don't respond to any of the points against him. gonna bet none of the people calling him town even looked at his mala read progression.

[BROseidon]

If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

what does this even mean...?

VT result would exonerate me, PR claim would increase likelihood of me being scum if you act under the assumption of an all-PR scumteam, no?

[waynegg]

Trust in me as you once did.

VOTE: Nacho

[Faster Than Light]

Holy crap, my version of the site just fixed itself.

Nacho, what makes you think the scum team is all PRs?

[Ghostlin]

ghost, thoughts on just lynching aj today? i realise nacho will most likely kill one of the people making a nacho wagon viable, but it seems a lot easier than the uphill battle of getting nacho lynched with players who call him town but don't talk about why he's town and don't respond to any of the points against him. gonna bet none of the people calling him town even looked at his mala read progression.

It'd be like lynching Rach over Mala Day 1; they are both scummish, one of them is fucking less optimal than the other, but they're both decent plays.

[Ghostlin]

Ftl, I am a PR.I will ensure you get results tomorrow. Clear?

[notscience]

I agree that I think Nacho's a poor lynch. I'm unsure if he's scum, and even if he is, then he's only a goon.

Aj's still the better lynch--that's where I want out vote to stay.

Is the board tripping out for anyone? It's all white/grey for me and I can't quote anything.


NS, I can talk to you about my claim. What's up?

Wasn't there a debate earlier this game about the chacne of town vs scum BPs that Mala was involved in?

I don't like the claim, it feels funny to me. I'm trying to figure out why.

[Nachomamma8]

no, it's been confirmed that mutley wasn't roleblocked. but why would that even matter?

i was assuming you'd say you thought he was 1-shot bulletproof AND something else, but you think he's full bulletproof?

mmmmm, he's bulletproof, which changes things a bit.

I tried to draw a kill day 1, or did you just ignore that part of the discussion?

I was asking where you tried to draw a kill Day 1 in Slenderman.

If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

PR results aren't damning, but vanilla results clear people. Needed one of the two of you to claim VT so FTL could check that claim. You can be lynched tomorrow.

It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use,

He's not unlimited use.

if you believe FTL is Town.

Do you think he's scum?

no, it's been confirmed that mutley wasn't roleblocked. but why would that even matter?

i was assuming you'd say you thought he was 1-shot bulletproof AND something else, but you think he's full bulletproof?

mmmmm, he's bulletproof, which changes things a bit.

I tried to draw a kill day 1, or did you just ignore that part of the discussion?

I was asking where you tried to draw a kill Day 1 in Slenderman.

If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

PR results aren't damning, but vanilla results clear people. Needed one of the two of you to claim VT so FTL could check that claim. You can be lynched tomorrow.

It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use,

He's not unlimited use.

if you believe FTL is Town.

Do you think he's scum?

Nacho, what makes you think the scum team is all PRs?

Cabd's role is much more useful if the scumteam is all PRs, doesn't make sense to limit your role unless the scumteam has a shit ton of power.

It'd be like lynching Rach over Mala Day 1; they are both scummish, one of them is fucking less optimal than the other, but they're both decent plays.

Tell me again why AJ lynch is less optimal than lynching me?

[Nachomamma8]

If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

what does this even mean...?

VT result would exonerate me, PR claim would increase likelihood of me being scum if you act under the assumption of an all-PR scumteam, no?

Yeah. Except if you claim vanilla townie beforehand, it's a cop investigation.

[waynegg]

@Andy

You've mentioned the bane of playing with no avatar a couple of times and I'm pretty sure no one has asked you about that. Why no avatar?

[BROseidon]

Yeah. Except if you claim vanilla townie beforehand, it's a cop investigation.

How does the information from a vanilla result change if I claim vanilla beforehand?

[waynegg]

You claim vanilla, he investigates you and you aren't vanilla, pretty much as good as a cop investigation because it shows lying about your role.

[BROseidon]

So if I were non-vanilla scum I'd claim vanilla at this point because...

[waynegg]

And now I don't think it likely BRO and Nacho are scum together.

pedit exactly. And where's the town motivation to drop that?

[BROseidon]

1) If I'm a strong town PR, I'm not going to fucking reveal it.

2) If I'm not, I'm not going to tell scum not to kill me.

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah. Except if you claim vanilla townie beforehand, it's a cop investigation.

How does the information from a vanilla result change if I claim vanilla beforehand?

It doesn't; it just means you can't squirm out of the result if he gets a PR result on you.

[Nachomamma8]

If I'm a super-strong PR that's a threat to scum, they'll know that I'm potentially a threat that needs to get shot. If I'm a weak PR/Vanilla/negative utility, scum know not to shoot me and push a lynch on me.

Claim PR/Not PR, then.
Now.

[BROseidon]

If you want a claim out of me, get town to run me up to L-1.

Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

[waynegg]

If you want a claim out of me, get town to run me up to L-1.

Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

What plan is that?

[BROseidon]

To have me claim so that FTL could see if I'd lie about whether I'm vanilla when there's a vanilla cop in play.

[Ghostlin]

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:
It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use,

1) He's not unlimited use.

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:
if you believe FTL is Town.

2) Do you think he's scum?


In post 4554, Ghostlin wrote:
It'd be like lynching Rach over Mala Day 1; they are both scummish, one of them is fucking less optimal than the other, but they're both decent plays.

3) Tell me again why AJ lynch is less optimal than lynching me?

In order:

1) It doesn't matter 100% if FTL is unlimited use or not for a reason I'll get to in my next point.

2) Two questions: Do you think it's likely I'd say what I'd say in 4555 if I seriously, for three fucking seconds that FTL was scum?

And how stupid do you think I fucking am if the answer to the first question is Yes?

Look. If scum had a investigative role in this game, Vanilla Cop would be much more likely than Inquisitor. And if I am to believe both claims (and I do), I would be remiss not to mention that, at least in passing. FTL's role doesn't necessarily clear them.

That said,

barring outside cases, FTL is more likely to be Town than Scum through play alone, and the role makes sense because scum has a sick amount of power by what's flipped. Rach can give out passives to other players (and there was no indication this was limited utility), Malakittens had a unlimited RB+1 shot redirect (useful for say, in case the two shot Vig attempted to shoot them), and everything else that's flipped or claimed in Town is either VT or limited use PRs except for Mastin + 1 or more other player(s) Mason ability which is confirmed Town to another player, chat abilities at night and essentially what amounts to Innocent Child when Mastin dies. The only other player with a permanent sustained ability is notscience, and he's an Innocent Child, and this hasn't helped his utility much beyond PoE/Town vote when/where we need it.

Hell, Mastin's one shot was a

fucking backup

. Which means someone had to

die

for it to be

useful

.

It is much more likely that scum has at one non-PR for balance's reasons/power's sake.

3) Bluntly, Nacho, I don't trust your reasons for being helpful. Up until we almost successfully got you run up, I can't name hardly any contribution to this game you've done. You went three game Days without being more flaky than a Grands biscuit and and now you've got the fucking unmitigated gall to ask me why I want you dead more than AJ, who I feel while scum, could possibly be just worse than you at this.

Hell, you compound that gall with asking me what's the scum evidence you're scum. Here's what I got: a slot I trust implicitly that's now dead had you as scum, you're trying to construct a narrative where non-PR=innocent so we continue to let you live after you've not done anything to earn it, and the fact that we're having this conversation means you've deviated from most of your other games with me to the

point we're having the conversation.

It's not real strong. I own that, but I seriously believe you're clever enough to just give me that as the things I get to hold onto for the reasoning for the lynch.

And then you pop out with the possibility that it's probably between AJ/BRO/Desp (which we knew), and that scum have all PRs, hence if you're VT you're cleared due to the magic of FTL. So, your only contributions have been to contribute to the PoE that's already been going on and to the narrative that clears you as scum, which there's a metric shit-ton of scum motivation behind. If for some miracle you survive this game Day, because I'm going to do my level best to continue to lynch you unless you give me excellent reasons why not, or the slots I do trust (judgment wise) in this game right now give me indications why I shouldn't (and so far, they've been 'full steam ahead' except for a compromise if I can't pull this off), there's no reason to attempt this now. AJ, in my mind would help resolve another slot of PoE and get rid of a scum team player that wouldn't be hard to lynch at any other time.

I seriously feel the resistance to your lynch is a good indication that we're on the right track (Mala) vs. being utterly wrong (Nick).

[Ghostlin]

@Andy

You've mentioned the bane of playing with no avatar a couple of times and I'm pretty sure no one has asked you about that. Why no avatar?

And this is has to do with this game...?

[Ghostlin]

ghost, thoughts on just lynching aj today? i realise

nacho will most likely kill one of the people making a nacho wagon viable

, but it seems

a lot easier

than the uphill battle of getting nacho lynched with players who call him town but don't talk about why he's town and don't respond to any of the points against him. gonna bet none of the people calling him town even looked at his mala read progression.

Muff: the italicized points are also the reason why we should continue with the Nacho lynch unless there's something compelling that happens why not/or we must compromise to the AJ lynch. It's why I've been particularly resistant to almost to the point of tunneling Nacho: the remaining scum out (Desp, AJ, BRO) are going to be easier to lynch. I feel we have a smaller window of opportunity with Nacho.

[borkjerfkin]

OH

[borkjerfkin]

YEAH