Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over
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As far as whether Faraday being not around much is a good omen or a bad one, it kinda depends on how I squint and what else about my reads are in flux.
Pessimistically, I do worry that you guys could be scum mostly because proficiency, though going by your (Mina's) play there's very little to get jumpy about, and I think I conveyed that in my reply to Nati yesterday.
Pessimistically, I do worry that you guys could be scum mostly because proficiency, though going by your (Mina's) play there's very little to get jumpy about, and I think I conveyed that in my reply to Nati yesterday.
Vote Count 3.11
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
Nero Cain (5): Lost Butterfly, zMuffinMan, VoidedMafia, Lord Mhork, Harakiri
Seanald (2): ProHawk, pieguyn
KingdomAces (2): Garuda, BBmolla
VoidedMafia (1): 1baldeagle1
zMuffinMan (1): Nero Cain
Not Voting (7): PeregrineV, Seanald, morph the cat, Ghostly Penguin, uʍop ǝpısdn, KingdomAces, JacobSavage
Deadline for Day 3 is Tuesday, November 12th, at 3:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:
(expired on 2013-11-12 15:00:00)
Last edited by Magua on Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*pulls pants up*In post 2570, Lost Butterfly wrote:Nope.In post 2548, BBmolla wrote:Faramina have you decided I'm town yet
Try harder.
Okay.
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morph why are you so interested in what farady is doing?
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I'm not sure how that could be construed as "disavowing ownership" of what I said. I was clarifying what we were arguing about, explaining my annoyance with Prohawk's second statement, then pointing out to you how anger isn't just a one-way tell.In post 2544, KingdomAces wrote:On one hand, everything about the explanation makes sense and explains the problems I had with it. On the other hand, the way it was phrased made it seem like you were completely disavowing any ownership of what you said after I showed a possible negative light it could be portrayed in.
Considering that Nero is the leading wagon and might be the lynch of the day, this would be appreciated.In post 2544, KingdomAces wrote:To be honest, I've been purposely avoiding Nero. While I can't say I know much about him, everything I do know just makes me even less confident that I can actually get anything from him. I will try to figure him out though.
But why not see if it wasn't actually WKing? IIRC Baldeagle said I was WKing and latched onto that from the get-go, and I don't recall him saying anything different. I can understand not wanting to be defeated by the same tactic again, but better sense would be to make sure it IS actually happening again, right?In post 2544, KingdomAces wrote:I think it's pretty clear that he has had a bad experience with White Knighting in the past, and when he saw the possibility that it could happen again, he went on a crusade strongly believing that his conclusion was right, so everything else only looks like more proof.
Do you believe this isn't a two-team game?In post 2544, KingdomAces wrote:While this does mean that I really don't trust his VCA, this really does increase my townread on him, since I don't think scum's righteousness sensors would get triggered like that, since they would know your alignment in the first place, so subconsciously he would be unable to believe his conviction as strongly as it appears he does.
Also, I don't really get a sense of "righteousness" from his posts, just a "gotta kill VM, gotta kill VM" sense <_<.
I'll requite for you so you can find them next time.In post 2544, KingdomAces wrote:And I lost track of time. I'll get to the rest of the questions later when I have time to actually give thorough answers that solely comprised of the words "null" or "gut", because that's what you'd get if I tried to answer them now.
Did Mhork medium-ing Pyro affect your read on him? If yes, how?
How do you feel about Seanald? Upside Down? Muffin? BBmolla? ProHawk?
What changed, huh?In post 2545, 1baldeagle1 wrote:Changed my mind, not gonna do a meta check.
Because you freaked out about it.In post 2549, Nero Cain wrote:ok and I read it another way so why is it scummy that I've read it differently?
I won't deny that scum would likely stop a wagon on their partner, I'm just saying that that's honestly a bad and a bit too obvious way to try and do that. It could be reverse psychology or samething and it really is an attempt to derail the DP wagon, but I don't think it's enough to offset my LB townread (though I won't deny that Faraday's lack of produtiveness isn't assuring me much).In post 2549, Nero Cain wrote:DP flipped scum, I know I'm town, I know I'm an easy mislynch target. Do you really think that scum wouldn't try to stop the DP scum lynch?
Bottom line is, I just don't see it the way you do.
Because /opinions.In post 2549, Nero Cain wrote:ok but I'm asking PV not you so why are you interjecting yourself here?
Oh, I'm terribly sorry I missed where someone else suggested the same team, bad VM <_<. Yes, I can see the line of thought you're using here, and it's stupid. I missed hers, but I saw yours.In post 2549, Nero Cain wrote:Can you quote the post where you asked PIE why he felt the DP bussers were Harakiri/you.
Though, now that you have me thinking on it and I don't remember an explanation for why, Pie, why do you think seanald/I bussed?
Okay, "started" wasn't the right word to use. But I was the 3rd vote, so I did pretty much make it a wagon at that point.In post 2549, Nero Cain wrote:Can you quote the VC where you are te leader of my wagon?
...Why would I have to be an LB alt?In post 2549, Nero Cain wrote:Well not today unless you are like a LB alt.
Lies on your part?In post 2551, Nero Cain wrote:yep but I have a town pm so how does that work?
The greatness of an argument has very little relation to the alignment of the person it's put to. Weak arguments can lynch scum and strong arguments can lynch town, just as weak arguments can lynch town while strong arguments can lynch scum.In post 2552, Nero Cain wrote:If they we so great then she wouldn't have flipped town.
No, I don't care if I'm answering for muffin because this argument is stupid.
Because there's a point between "pushing a read" and "tunneling a read," and I think he's in the latter mode. It's not complete ubertunneling, thankfully, but it feels like a disproportionate amount of his posts related to him calling me scum or talking about me, and I think he hit the tunneling point too early for my liking.In post 2559, Garuda wrote:This is precisely what bothers me. You think the dude is scum so who cares if he "snaps out of it" or not?
The difference between there and here is that in S&L I was trying to get Fate to EXPLAIN why he thought I was scum (And I never got more than "gut" as an answer, either <_<). Here I think Bald is being stupid with his read on me and I want him to stop.In post 2559, Garuda wrote:Also, I guess I just get flashbacks from when you were doing this shit with Fate in Shadows and Lights
That's fair enough, but it still feels very...weird, for lack of a better word, that Faraday hasn't done much besides troll whenever he shows up. Disliking a certain alignment shouldn't translate to "not doing much of worth" IMO.In post 2560, Garuda wrote:Faraday being absent from the game is actually not that big of a deal for me considering he prefers scum (we're talking about a former Don Corleone winner and a guy who is just generally very proud of his scum game). If anything, I think a scum PM would give him more drive - even when he felt demotivated as scum in Mafiastuck, he was still very active the entire time he was alive and was consistently on top of the game.
Mina's suspicious toward Morph's comments about hers and Faraday's scumgame feels town to me, so there's some offsetting.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
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From Tammy:
As much as I loath to say this, she thinks Nero is town.
She does want to discuss reads with morph
To Garuda: molla is town because his posts feel real. The frustration of someone wanting to drop out of a game just turning into trading money to six guys felt real. Also saying he could have made up reads as scum and asking Lost Butterfly if he was reading him as town felt real.
Also Garuda is probably town.
As much as I loath to say this, she thinks Nero is town.
She does want to discuss reads with morph
To Garuda: molla is town because his posts feel real. The frustration of someone wanting to drop out of a game just turning into trading money to six guys felt real. Also saying he could have made up reads as scum and asking Lost Butterfly if he was reading him as town felt real.
Also Garuda is probably town.
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Chapter One: Burnt Offerings
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Chapter One: Burnt Offerings
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What causes you to take interest in players?In post 2579, JacobSavage wrote:morph why are you so interested in what farady is doing?
I've been interested in what he's NOT doing. And I'm interested because I'm trying to refine a read on a hydra that I don't have much experience playing with one head and I have zero prior experience with the other head.
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Thoughts on how to proceed?In post 2581, Lord Mhork wrote:She does want to discuss reads with morph
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Okay I'll talk to ffery about this and crank out a list to go off of tonight.In post 2581, Lord Mhork wrote:She does want to discuss reads with morph
P-edit: oh hi ffery
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Voided, I like how I'm supposed to reconsider my read on you, when you haven't even done that to me at all. Survivalism isn't pro-town.
Changed my mind on the meta, because I didn't think it would help.
Changed my mind on the meta, because I didn't think it would help.
You can find my meta on my wiki.
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In case it wasn't clear I meant like pulling my pants up to get down to businessIn post 2577, BBmolla wrote:*pulls pants up*In post 2570, Lost Butterfly wrote:Nope.In post 2548, BBmolla wrote:Faramina have you decided I'm town yet
Try harder.
Okay.
If that makes any sense
idk
not sexual
The short version is that I'd have been a lot more careful in my posting / interactions with people.In post 2573, Lost Butterfly wrote:I know you like to bash your scum game, but what do you think you would have done differently, Empire? (Don't say, "I wouldn't have even posted!")
Well, here's the thing: in other games, I've read molla based on his attitude in his interactions with people. The short version for me is that as scum, he tends to focus more on appeasing others whereas he's a lot more sarcastic / abrasive as town (admittedly, this meta is a bit ancient and from offsite, but this is a large part of the reason Regfan and I correctly read him as town in the last game, dayvig aside).In post 2581, Lord Mhork wrote:To Garuda: molla is town because his posts feel real. The frustration of someone wanting to drop out of a game just turning into trading money to six guys felt real. Also saying he could have made up reads as scum and asking Lost Butterfly if he was reading him as town felt real.
Posts like #81-#82 felt like a weak imitation of his town meta (he's surely self-aware enough to realize that he'd need to do some lolreaction thing as scum). It just felt limp, like there was no actual drive / passion behind it at all and that he was just going through the motions there.
In fact, his entire interaction with Mina felt like he was trying to appease her which just bugs the shit out of me as that's what I remember of his scum game.
I didn't think too much about his frustration with the transfer plan at the time (probably lost in the haze when I was trying to keep up with the game) but I could easily see that reaction coming from demotivated scum, too.
Basically, I just don't really know. From what little we talked about molla in particular (and from what I remember), Nacho had him as town but I'm personally not really comfortable with that.
I'm kind of annoyed at the global absence of people (yeah yeah I know, pot kettle black) in this game. I don't have the time tonight, but I'm going to go ISO deepreading tomorrow and seeing where that takes me. And I still haven't forgotten about the Peregrine meta report so that's on my to do list too.
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Hi. I hear your lap has a vaccancy? One cat, ready to fill that empty part of your heart, right here.In post 2591, Garuda wrote:I'm kind of annoyed at the global absence of people (yeah yeah I know, pot kettle black) in this game
In post 2553, Nero Cain wrote:LIAR SCUM FOUND!!!In post 2515, zMuffinMan wrote:which stuff?
i've played with nero a few times before (a couple years back) but it has nothing to do with why i think he's scum here.
vote:Muffin
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29987
Its rather ironic that in that game Monkeyscum got lynched for pretending to have not played with me and now Muffinscum is getting lynched for lying about not having played with me recently.
Vote: Nero Cain
Here's the reason: I don't necessarily remember my scum/town games, how I fucking played, etic. This is treated as a scum slip, which is just fucking terrible but not usually scummy, but Nero's using it for the lynchpin to attempt a lynch here. Consider, for a minute the sum total of actual scum hunting he's done this game--if his questions really were fucking serious, he could of come up with a case or something this game except: 'muffin lied because he said he wasn't in a game recently, but I found a game where he was..'
It's flimsy. And considering Nero Cain's been around a bit, one would expect he'd try a tact that, oh, I don't fucking know, did something.
It's flimsy. And considering Nero Cain's been around a bit, one would expect he'd try a tact that, oh, I don't fucking know, did something.
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In post 2594, Ghostlin wrote:In post 2553, Nero Cain wrote:LIAR SCUM FOUND!!!In post 2515, zMuffinMan wrote:which stuff?
i've played with nero a few times before (a couple years back) but it has nothing to do with why i think he's scum here.
vote:Muffin
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29987
Its rather ironic that in that game Monkeyscum got lynched for pretending to have not played with me and now Muffinscum is getting lynched for lying about not having played with me recently.Vote: Nero Cain
Here's the reason: I don't necessarily remember my scum/town games, how I fucking played, etic. This is treated as a scum slip, which is just fucking terrible but not usually scummy, but Nero's using it for the lynchpin to attempt a lynch here. Consider, for a minute the sum total of actual scum hunting he's done this game--if his questions really were fucking serious, he could of come up with a case or something this game except: 'muffin lied because he said he wasn't in a game recently, but I found a game where he was..'
It's flimsy. And considering Nero Cain's been around a bit, one would expect he'd try a tact that, oh, I don't fucking know, did something.
Wow, I'm fucking bad at hydra.
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In post 2588, BBmolla wrote:In case it wasn't clear I meant like pulling my pants up to get down to businessIn post 2577, BBmolla wrote:*pulls pants up*In post 2570, Lost Butterfly wrote:Nope.In post 2548, BBmolla wrote:Faramina have you decided I'm town yet
Try harder.
Okay.
If that makes any sense
idk
not sexual
You know, you could try the traditional town method of saying what's on your fucking mind regardless of the consequences versus trying to seek approval from 'obvtown'.
Because this is kinda what I'm fucking seeing here.
Because this is kinda what I'm fucking seeing here.
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Mhork, what are Tammy's reasons for the turnaround on Nero (and on morph, but I'm much more interested in the former)?
Also, am I missing something huge in her reasons for liking ProHawk? I don't follow her logic at all. The rules say that people get the money they're transferred at the start of the following night. The description for Medium says it only lasts for the phase immediately after the player's death. So this isn't something he'd have to guess. If anything, it's more suspicious to claim that he transferred money to the one Big Six player who CAN'T verify how much was sent.
In other news, I'm really tempted to change Lost Butterfly's signature to "FARADAY'S ABSENCE IS NEITHER A SIGN WE'RE TOWN NOR A SIGN WE'RE SCUM. SERIOUSLY. IT'S BECAUSE OF STUFF UNRELATED TO THIS GAME. I PROMISE. JUST MAN/WOMAN UP AND READ OUR SLOT BASED ON ME."
Also, am I missing something huge in her reasons for liking ProHawk? I don't follow her logic at all. The rules say that people get the money they're transferred at the start of the following night. The description for Medium says it only lasts for the phase immediately after the player's death. So this isn't something he'd have to guess. If anything, it's more suspicious to claim that he transferred money to the one Big Six player who CAN'T verify how much was sent.
In other news, I'm really tempted to change Lost Butterfly's signature to "FARADAY'S ABSENCE IS NEITHER A SIGN WE'RE TOWN NOR A SIGN WE'RE SCUM. SERIOUSLY. IT'S BECAUSE OF STUFF UNRELATED TO THIS GAME. I PROMISE. JUST MAN/WOMAN UP AND READ OUR SLOT BASED ON ME."
Mafiascum Fantasy Camp 2 - Day 7 ongoing
I personally think that we should just sort out the people in the town block better. What I hoped would end up happening today is Empire checking my work and solidifying my reads and then being able to get today's lynch + tomorrow's quicklynch set into stone, but me only having 8 pages to catch up on tells me that that sure as hell won't end up being the case.In post 2378, Lord Mhork wrote:She says this mitigates the damage more of scum being in the town bloc. She also thinks there should be a designation of who goes for what.
#2293 feels pretty good to me right now. Although I would be happy if someone in the Morph or Garuda hydra could inform me on whether they can read Jacob or not because Jacob should be an easy person to read but I just feel I don't know how.
DoctorPepper checked into thread, noticed that there were 15 hours left before the deadline and then completely disappeared. That was weird as fuck to me.In post 2423, KingdomAces wrote:I find Garuda's comments on Dr. Pepper in 1306 strange. At this point he seemed not all that much different from Guille/Bankai, but he specifically commented about DP and none of the other near lurkers.
What's so town about Quilford?In post 2424, KingdomAces wrote:If this were a bastard game I'd call N scum and Quilford town, especially with N pressing how many times N says that Quilford is obvtown, but it isn't so I'll just go with town on that slot.
What's the amount of money you sent?In post 2459, Nero Cain wrote:Followed the plan; rolled 3.
Seanald-scum goes after low-hanging fruit for literally no reason. Seanald-town has the tendency to go after random people for reasoning that's generally hard to connect with, but him going strongly after power players is reassuring regardless of what reasoning he ends up using.In post 2466, Lost Butterfly wrote:For example, Seanald's point that "scum like posting when something big happens" (actually, the opposite tends to be more true on average) was silly, and what was worse was the way it was framed came off as though he was validating that as a reason to suspect us.
I've had a tendency lately to make towncases on the majority of the playerlist and then drop towncases that I don't feel as comfortable with. It's a more recent approach, but I like it quite a bit. I have a tendency to townread people too easily, and then when I get halfway down the playerlist I notice that I have too many townreads, and start looking for reasons to find people as scummy.In post 2466, Lost Butterfly wrote:Also, IIRC, some of the positions of reads on their lists didn't seem to quite follow from all the positive things they said in the rereads. I'm focusing on the us stuff because I'm a narcissist, my body thinks it's 5:30 AM, and it's what sticks out in my mind in such a huge thread, but I didn't like that he'd basically called most of our posts super-town but then moved us a tier lower for a couple of throwaway sentences.
Why is that?In post 2466, Lost Butterfly wrote:Either way, he can only be RH scum.
The clincher is the genuineness, which I've glanced through his other games for. Look in Shadows and Lights, look in Achievement Unlocked and do your goddamn meta report and then tell me he's scum.In post 2505, Garuda wrote:SUDDEN PANG OF HYDRA DISSONANCE BECAUSE NACHO ISN'T AROUND TO TELL ME I'M BAD AT MAFIA
Every time I want to believe Nacho's Voided townread, I read shit like his entire page 97 posting and I just want to noose him so fucking badly.
I guess it might be a posting style thing? I just fucking despise the way he talks to baldeagle (the early part of #2414 is what I mean -- it's like he's trying to talk baldeagle out of his read which is really weird considering Voided scumreads him) and I still can't shake the feeling I had early D1 where it just seems like his entire approach to this game is from the mindset of scum trying to scumhunt the other team.
In post 2593, Garuda wrote:Also, note: do Harakiri first tomorrow (another slot I'm very conflicted on).
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Mainly early stuff, like 1395 and 1531.In post 2515, zMuffinMan wrote:which stuff?
i've played with nero a few times before (a couple years back) but it has nothing to do with why i think he's scum here.