NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[projectmatt]

Trust me when I say I'm painfully self aware at how much I've been coasting - and I really really wish I had more time for it.

Can someone who has played a lot with AngryPidgeon explain why he is scum please? Because I think he's town.

I actually do scumread AngryPidgeon but it isn't a way that I can explain in a logically concise way - mainly, the read is completely tonal. I feel as though he's been uncharacteristically uptight and a lot of things he says just bothers me, but it is difficult to pursue a tonal scumread when you have little logical justification, you see. Why do you think that AngryPidgeon is town?

Thinking about who I need to vote today, leaning on Anxiety actually but I'm going to wait until tomorrow to cast my vote. I'm sorry again.

[Egg]

AP, wait, projectmatt has been doing exactly what he did in that post for the past 90 pages? Yeah, consider him a scumread for me. And if Nero's logic is that Rach is town because town is making a bad case on her, that's dumb. But he does seem pretty obsessed with ThAdscum and ThAd is voting Rach so I can see that. Rach is probably the most obvtown player in the game from what I've seen though.

Nero, I asked who the cop clear was because:

I think her play makes perfect sense and I don't think she's lying about forgetting the cop inno.

But now I realize you were talking about a past game.

I would just stop reading my posts then because I'm serving up an all you can eat sarcasm buffet.

^This is obvtown as a response to being called out for sarcasm.

Egg:

I was referring to Zdenek's fake daykill on bipolar, following which bipolar started racking up townreads. Also, by 'good' I mean town-looking.

I know what you meant. I just mean I don't see how I can be town looking when I haven't done jack shit yet.. Not that I mind being townread, but it doesn't feel like a genuine read and it gives me weird vibes.

Egg:

I was referring to Zdenek's fake daykill on bipolar, following which bipolar started racking up townreads. Also, by 'good' I mean town-looking.

This will get better. It's really large game + replace in 80+ pages + working 16 hour days. I don't really have a good grasp on the game yet either. I need to interact with you guys a little first.

Nero, why is 4n in your town block?

Ya ^, but him asking did you mean why "DID' I read or why "DIDN'T" I read is dumb since he could just tell us instead of asking a question that seems irrelevant.

This seems kinda nitpicky and pointless.

This is the same Egg from Hard-Boiled

^This is along the same lines as my issue with Deas. I haven't done anything yet. How can you compare my play here to hard boiled? AP was in Hard Boiled and literally just said the opposite of this. What are you seeing in my play that is similar to Hard Boiled? I'm not so sure this is a genuine read from you.

Unvote, Vote projectmatt

^No one seems to be townreading this guy. Can we flashwagon him before deadline?

[projectmatt]

What have I been doing?

[Snork]

Nero, what do you think about mastin?

might be scum. If Mastin flips scum is PA scum?

k. I'm ignoring pa, ignoring mastin.

Why?

Well, mainly cuz I can't read them. I find their posts to be... eye glazing. I've actually been shit this whole day so a lot of the posts are eye glazing, but those two the most. Plus I have somewhat solid reads elsewhere except for them. I was townreading MR pretty well until the end, and penguin_alien kind of.. erased all of that. Her tone is totally different and I don't really know how to reconcile that.

Then there's the fact that people are talking about lynching between snowstorm and TWIE, both slots I can understand being scum read, but both I have this like... gut-sinking feeling about. I really like snowstorm. I like almost all of his posts, but the few that I don't like, I

really

don't like. It's extremely troubling. As for TWIE, my read on the slot is entirely based on pisskop, and TWIE's posts have been... insignificant, I guess is the best way to put it.

[Snork]

Rach is probably the most obvtown player in the game

Just...

fucking... no.

What the fuck is wrong with everyone?

[mastin2]

Why does it take you so long to end up over here then?

Because I still think 4nxi3ty is scum and still kinda want to wagon him?

Uhhh, what would you expect scum PA to do different.

Her to treat me differently? It's kinda difficult to describe, but, her attitude seems like it was a town one to take about me.

Uhhh, You just posted this about DV. Except their reads aren't THAT in sync.

Doesn't matter? Like...DV's posting looked really good. Damon's posting also looked good, but in a different way, with reads not quite the same but making it even more reason to think him town rather than less.

Im not buying that you 'forgot' why he was scummy.

You scum this game, AP?

You're asking a lot of somewhat-loaded questions here, and even those that aren't are either things you already know or are getting wrong that I really wouldn't expect. I've rambled about my bad memory in a LOT of games, as both alignments, and telling the truth every time. You know this. Like...you can argue that it's convenient for a scum-me to forget. That's an okayish reason. (Not great, though.) But you're not.

Really, you are going to bring that game up?

Well, Xenogears wasn't over at the time, and what I really meant was 'like Xenogears' when Xenogears was 'like The Fall', so...kinda? It's not as bad as Xeno, which wasn't quite as bad as The Fall. But it's the same type of feeling, just a lesser severity, if that makes sense.

You feel like you are coasting here.

I guess I am? I mean, I'm giving content. I'm contributing. I'm posting. But my heart's not into it, and it's a struggle, and I'm not doing a good job at it, so I suppose I am. I'll try to figure something out to fix it.

Talk to me about my reads.

Alright.

Mister Rogers/PA
Snork
AngryPidgeon
BipolarChemist/Egg
Yates
PeregrineV

PA's null to me overall right now.
Snork's posting looks town, but feels like it has to be an alt. It feels like this level of drive and familiarity could only come from an insider. So if Snork really weren't an alt, I'd actually feel like scum if that makes sense.
AP's a concern, since he's not feeling the townvibes.
I liked BipolarChemist's posting and Egg's has continued the trend.
Yates is null, as is PV. Don't really remember anything from either of them.

With a lynch list of {Snork/PA/Yates/AP/PV/Thad}, basically the only one I wouldn't want lynched is ThAd, whose posting does look town to me.

I haven't done anything yet. How can you compare my play here to hard boiled? What are you seeing in my play that is similar to Hard Boiled?

You've done enough for me to get that same vibe from you. Admittedly, your vote on matt seems like a divergence from what I remember about you (and thus, is a concern), but literally everything else I remember about you feels like, "I'm kinda forgetting that this game's not Hard Boiled", if that makes sense.

[Snork]

what about the VCA I did? On both wagons and on those on neither wagon, you seemed to have forgotten that Thad

You didn't do VCA. What you did was quote the VC and spout arbitrary conclusions without any foundation.

That is not VCA.

That is either guessing or framing.

[DeasVail]

but SRS question, how do you tell the difference between town attitude and scum faking a town attitude?

I don't think I can say anything other than gut here. I'll probably ISO TWIE tomorrow and see if I can explain things more logically, but for now I don't think I have anything really convincing to say.

[Snork]

Why do you think that AngryPidgeon is town?

The way he questions people, and the way his thought process is so transparent in the thread. Like, you can see how he comes to his conclusions through his posts. It's all there. And it's not just posting thoughts, it's the way he's interacting with people. His reads also seem pretty fluid. And I don't get a manipulative twisting jumpy feel from his suspicions.

[Yates]

Prod dodge: Sorry guys. Wasn't expecting to deal with the Heartbleed vulnerability patches all day yesterday [4/9] and I'm going to be on the road all day for work today. [Literally from 3 AM until like 8 PM!]

If I don't get caught up tonight [4/10] I'll post tomorrow.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Mastin: Wow, thank god you are paranoid of me. Like I really could not understand why you were seemingly writing me off as town all game. It occurred to me recently that you hadn't really talked about me much if at all and I certainly couldn't recall you saying anything about me other than calling my entry posts townish offhandedly. So ya. You can be a townlean for now, we just need to get you into Rehab for Lurkers. . This really isn't Egg from Hard boiled...at all. Given that Egg hasn't actually done much here other than provide passing opinions in catchup-esque mode and Egg in Hard boiled was way more analytical. Please justify this.

What have I been doing?

Pretty much fuck-all.

I do like how you managed to cough up a scumread on me after being called out on lack of scumreads..by me.

[Egg]

Projectmatt, I pointed out earlier that your lack of scum reads concerned me. AP says you've been coming in, posting a few town reads, and lurking. That worries me more.

Snork, I'm gonna stop being subtle. Rach being town doesn't have to do with her play. No one should be voting her. She is town.

Mastin, if what you are seeing is just my tone or the way I phrase things, that's personality/playstyle. I don't buy that you are using it as a legitimate reason to read me.

[AngryPidgeon]

I feel as though he's been

uncharacteristically

uptight

Are you familiar with my play at all? I wouldn't use uptight to describe me except maybe my Talah tunnel.

[Nero Cain]

I'm Rach's biggest defender but even I don't think her play is good.

4nx is in my town bloc since I'm town and his attack on Rogers is something I agree with. + I haven't seen anything head desk frustrating. Why should I have him as a not town read?

no pmatt flash wagon. Vote for Thadscum.

Why is Thad town, Mastin?

[Egg]

Nero, I agree about Rach's play. I just said that's not why she's town. I ask about 4n because I disagree with that read. And I don't really see ThAdscum.

[Nero Cain]

Thad is sheeping an obv bad case and has been sitting on that wagon despite the fact that said wagon isn't going to go through and he's done jack shit today besides tunnel Rach and defend himself.

I'm not really feeling a pmatt lynch 'cause like, I understand he's p much lurking it out and that COULD come from scum but what else has he done that deserves a lynch?

[AngryPidgeon]

The scummy thing about Matt is he isn't doing anything to make enemies. He has given no scum reads at all but throws a few strong town reads out. That doesn't fit the picture of a lurker who lost interest.

That looks like scum trying really hard to be on everyone s good side with minimal input.

And he out of the blue conjures a singular scum read for zero logical reason up after getting called scummy for not having any. It's looks like active lurking.

[Nero Cain]

eh, I guess.

[Nero Cain]

but there's still TWIE whith ISOing his slot + hesitation. Dunno what I want to do.

[ThAdmiral]

Thad is sheeping an obv bad case and has been sitting on that wagon despite the fact that said wagon isn't going to go through and he's done jack shit today besides tunnel Rach and defend himself.

How am I sheeping, when I was saying rach was scum yesterday?
I don't even consider what I'm doing defending myself, rather pointing out that there is no case on me.

As far as I can tell the state of the game right now is:
- rach is town coz reasons
- I'm scum coz reasons

This is possibly the stupidest game I've ever been a part of. And if no one is going to listen to sense or reason I can hardly fucking be bothered.

[Nero Cain]

ok, we are all morons for town reading Rach now you are sitting on a wagon that's not going to go through, dl is getting real close so whatcha wanna do?

[ThAdmiral]

Is tunnelling scummy nero?

Because you tunnelled the fuck out of rogers yesterday, and today you're tunnelling the fuck out of me.
Yeah I can see you're voting someone else. Why? You're telling people to vote me. You've clearly "pegged" me as scum. Why wouldn't you leave your vote on me. I'd have more votes than twie if you did.

Oh because you're hedging your bets. Got it.

I don't know why you decided to started defending rach, but the best I can come up with is you fucked up. Somewhere along the line you thought you were supposed to have a town read on rach, and when you realised you fucked up you could have either gone back on your word or doubled-down and you doubled-the-fuck-down. Ballsy. I'll give you that.

You scummy fuck, nero. I don't believe I actually sided with you day one. Even today I didn't think you were scum until recently. I think it was wishful thinking. I didn't want to think you were scum. I let my personal opinion of you as a player cloud my judgement. But with every post it became clearer and clearer.

You scummy fuck.

Forget everything else there is no way your flip on rachel makes any sense. You were scum reading her day 1. Rach makes this post:

BTW peeps

a Newbie game just ended and Luca and Joker were the scum and won

Newbie 1476 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=38637

We had a Doc and a Cop (Doc died N 1), Cop was a newbie (Burn 209) who did not cop correctly. Instead of waiting til he got a guilty, he claimed cop on D 2 with an inno read on Notty, and lied that he had a cop clear on Luca. 3 person LYLO was Luca, myself, and Jake.

So yeah there was cause to see Luca as a scumspect on D 1 here in this game.

Snork responds with these two posts:

RM are you making the excuse for your vote on Luca that you were reading her based on a game you were in with her at the time where she had not flipped? Really?

A game where she supposedly was cleared?? And you had no reason to believe at that time the cop was lying since he flipped town cop... so you voted Luca based on that game where she was a "cleared" player...

Yeah that doesnt hold up Rach. That is the shittiest excuse ever, not to mention why are you bothering with excusing your vote? Do you feel guilty about it?

VOTE: RachMarie

A perfectly reasonable set of questions considering how rach worded it.

You post 10 times without mentioning that it is a shit case. Which is funny since you are so adamant now that it was so clearly a shit case.

Oh this is gold. I didn't spot this before.
From a long post of yours:

Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.

Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?

Why DV and not Rach?

To put this in to context both rach and dv had asked nero for content. Basically nero is asking AP here: why do you consider only dv to look bad because of this, and not rachel as well. He is suggesting that rach should look bad as well.

This is after the snork case.

This is when nero was supposed to have been "townreading" rach.

This is bullshit.

Cut ahead...

After aptil claims I unvote him and go to my next highest scumread which is rach, not only because of my existing suspicion but because of the points raised by snork. Nero mentions nothing about me agreeing with snorks case. If the case was so bad why did nero not mention anything until much, much later? Because he retconned a fake reason to think I'm scummy.

cut ahead...

snork and rach argue about how what she's claiming makes no sense.

Then nero say:

Yea, Rach is clean 'cause AP is

scum

dirty. Snork's reasoning for voting Rach seems legit and AP fighting that is p derpy. Might switch my vote to AP. An AP-PA scum team makes sense too!!!

Honestly I still don't know how much of this is sarcasm and how much isn't. But nero clarifies at least one part of it here:

I DO have a town read on Rach regardless of how terrible she is.

He goes on further to explain his read on rach's behaviour:

In a newbie game, Luca trolls it up and plays like his join date, he gets a cop inno.

In this game, Luca trolls it up and plays like his join date, Rach thinks he's scummy and votes him. Snork says Rach is scummy.

I think there are players who are scummy/terrible regardless of alignment so Rach finding Luca scummy makes total sense 'cause his play WAS scummy.
Snorks reasoning isn't that horrible (he's wrong and I could see it making sense from his POV.) Could scum make that up and push it? Yeah but I don't think I'll entertain a Snork lynch today.

I'm just going to repeat one piece of that post:

Snorks reasoning isn't that horrible

(he's wrong and I could see it making sense from his POV.) Could scum make that up and push it? Yeah but I don't think I'll entertain a Snork lynch today.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The reasoning isn't that horrible. Yet its a clearly shit case. And anyone who might agree with it is scum. Apparently.

Fuck I just found another pearl.
Check out this exchange:

I don't like that we are excusing shitty play just because this player always plays shitty.

If she's town, she has been dead fucking weight.

So was Luca but weren't you screaming and hollering that I was scummy for wanting Luca dead?

Explain how Luca was so much more useful than Rach?

Combine that with nero here:

I think there are two types of players on this site. Those that act scummy regardless of alignment and those that try to look town as scum. This isn't exactly my first rodeo and I've seen players like Luca flip both town and scum. He DOES have a better chance to flip town based on sheer numbers alone but like I said he's not someone I'd care to keep around and scum can still EZly act like this.

vote:Luca

If anyone falls in to that first category rach does. And yet Nero still doesn't want to lynch her. Because he thinks she's town because of a crap case. Which is bullshit.

[ThAdmiral]

die in a fire you scum fuck

vote: nero

I don't know if you are protecting a partner or whiteknighting town, but I now know that YOU are a scummy piece of shit. And what's frustrating is you're somehow getting away with it.

[Nero Cain]

yeah, I'm not happening either today so do you plan on doing anything useful today?

Also lolz at OMGUS

[Nero Cain]

yeah, I'm not happening either today so do you plan on doing anything useful today?

Also lolz at OMGUS