Tales of You (Endgame)

[Mac]

haha, nice try. I'm saying gut (well it was at least). You're saying you have a case but refuse to post it.

[CarbonFiber]

Where did I say that I had a case that I refused to post?

~ F-16

[Mac]

Misread, point still stands. You could build a case, but won't.

[CarbonFiber]

That's fine if you misread. But it basically comes down to you trying to get me to articulate a gut read. I'm not sure where your issue is. Help me figure it out.

~ F-16

[Mac]

Well you haven't once said it's gut as far as I can recall. But when you're asked, you say you won't produce a case before RBD probably won't be lynched. I can't see RBD getting lynched at all, so are you just not gonna build a case at all?

In fact, your three scumreads (RBD, mastin, AP) are generally hard-to-lynch players - do you not intend case building at all?

[Red Gyarados]

I may or may not have punched several kittens earlier.

I remember seeing some interesting things, but nothing important enough to go back and comment on.

@Muffin/Nati: Last thing I remember about Notty before he disappeared into the abyss was something about his prom. Also something about thinking Mastin being right about something. No idea what that was because he never responded to me before disappearing. If I had to guess, it's probably Mastin scum-reading AP's entrance into this game (only thing that makes sense to me based on time-stamps). Or a town-read on you. Take your pick.

Then I don't really understand why you keep talking about my role if you think it means nothing in regards to my alignment.

There was actually a really specific reason why I was interested in your role, but it's no longer applicable.

And you're the one who claimed your role in your opening post. You're welcome to keep whatever information regarding your claim to yourself, but don't be surprised when people come asking you about it.

More OMGUS tunneling.

Okay, I don't think I'm being fair here as I still haven't had a chance to go back and look at this slot. I just barely managed to catch-up today (and even then, my reads are still a garbled mess). But all I remember out of this slot is OMGUS tunneling and wondering why it's not being townread by certain players. How the fuck is this being read as town?

You guys had better reason to think I'm scum than to think mastin is scum. So technically you should still be voting me, but you aren't.

Assuming Mastin is town: They are either stubborn town using this as an opportunity to PL Mastin, or they're scum trying to line up lynches.

I mean, both you and Nacho are buddying/defending Mastin up to this point. AP also refuses to attach a scum-read to Mastin's slot. I find it irritating that people are scum-reading Mastin but throwing townreads towards all these other players' directions.

*Yes, the above point has been pointed out by Mastin herself. I don't really care. I share the same opinion.

*Like ffs. How much crap can two people spout in their tunnel of each other.

No, I think Kagura is probably my favorite pick for scum right now. A side of Carbon and PV.

These are the three I'm actually most interested in right now. You'd have to sell me on the Kagura one (and you'd have to sell me pretty hard if you want me to vote Nacho Day 1; and it's not like I'm really reading any of their posts so I'd feel extremely bad about it), but I don't like Carbon and PV a whole lot (PV could be town, but I find it odd how much analysis he's already managed to do early on in this game; feels very different). I'd be most interested in Carbon because there's just something I don't like about his posts (I could just be biased against Falcon, and I'm pretty concerned about this). I just don't like the way he just comes in and buddies/white knights/defends the players I consider lynching (my reads could really just be terrible and I've already been through this process with Falcon before).

There are other concerns, but I'm tabling them for now because I don't think they hold any weight.

Oh, you didn't mention the fox. I'd be okay with lynching that.

I have basically the best damn case I could ever possibly make against AP.
All the right points are there.

Your case is too long. Make it shorter and simpler. I don't intend to read all your walls until Day 2 (well I actually do read your posts and I'll probably end up reading them tomorrow, it just takes too much work to go through).

I may have been hasty with my

RG

Brian endorsement.

Yeah, cuz you haven't made this post before.

I'm just ignoring it because my slot wasn't deserving of a townread at that point in time.

It doesn't help that this game has so many hydras. TBH I'm just waiting for them to die off before I actually start playing the game.

How bout you just obvtown yourself and eat a bullet?

The deadline is looming and we have no other player that we can build a strong wagon on, correct me if I'm wrong.

Trust me. It doesn't matter how close the deadline is. Someone will get lynched. It might be the most god awful retarded ass lynch, but it will happen.

Mastin, if you are alive in LYLO (which you will be if you aren't lynched), it is an auto-loss, isn't it?

?

Why can't he die at LYLO?

What I really, really don't want to do is turn two potential scum wagons into a deadline lurker town wagon and lynch PeregrineV. I am strongly concerned that AP and Mastin are throwing out his name in the midst of their loud argument. That is a worst possible outcome I can imagine coming out of Day 1 where we let BOTH of them slip by and lynch PV.

This could be town. But I really don't give a shit about the PV slot.

EXCEPT LITERALLY ALL MY FUCKING POSTING HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON GETTING SCUM TICKED OFF ENOUGH TO NIGHTKILL ME.

bullshit

VOTE: MastinSSK

This was the straw that broke the camel's back?

How much interest do you guys having in lynching PV?

Moderate. Not a person I'd miss if I were wrong.

Can a meta player link me to another town game where F16 has made this little sense?

Define what you mean by 'making sense.'

If MastinSSK flips scum, I think you should at least re-evaluate Rancid on D2 given his interactions with MastinSSK.

Especially interested in this

Why? I think it's a fair point. The only difference is that he should be pushing you first. But no, everyone wants to townread the people defending Mastin (and these are pretty credible players when it comes to Mastin) and just try to lynch Mastin instead.

3) His role takes away one town vote. Rancid's role requires one less vote to lynch. What do you think of that?

Nothing? You're essentially trying to tie together two negative utilities to one scum-team.

Even if mastin IS scum, she has buddies. Hint: They ARENT RBD.

So you think that if Mastin is scum, then RBD is just being fooled/incapable of correctly reading her?

In regards to Mastin's role and the nature of roleclaiming, we will never know if that role is legitimate to the person unless he/she is dead and the role is revealed to us officially. However, I have strong assumptions that Tammy is town if we analyze the role. It does not help the mafia team at all with the voting restriction. Yes, there is a possibility that the role can be scum-aligned, but I would most likely believe it would be better put on a team of 5, not 4; otherwise, the balance will be off and the mafia will be at a disadvantage. The reason of there being 4 mafia members means that they have top-tier PRs.

What does Tammy have to do with Mastin's roleclaim?

find someone who actually does understand my play or syncs up and works with me smoothly and easily and ask their opinion.

@ffery: I do not fall into this category.

Supertown

RBD
Titan
Breakfast With Stalin
Kagura

Town

Clyton
RG
orcinus? would like your opinion on this

Fucked if I know

Mastin
AP
Just Sheep Us

Lol, who?

LordBusiness
Cupcake

Scumreads

CarbonFiber
Fox and the Hound

P5
Yukari

Your reads look similar to mine. And you're probably the only person on this site I'd be happy to actually see my reads be similar to. But I have Yukari as flat null. I'm ambivalent on PV and don't care either way what happens to him. I want to lynch the Fox. And although I want to lynch Carbon, I am extremely paranoid about being wrong about him (one because I'm not confident I can read him and two because he's a boon to town if he's actually town).

I understand your concerns about LB. I've had them too. But can you really blame the guy for losing interest in the game (regardless of alignment) with all the noise being created by players using information he's not accustomed to? After he's been complaining about the use of meta all game?

The JSU hydra is another hydra I'm worried about, but I don't think it's something that 1) I'm anything but tepid about and 2) anything that I can get lynched today.

I make cases to push for lynches.

You should probably be making cases for survivalism at this point.

This playerslist is dangerous and there isn't a consensus scum-read. I only think a very select few are safe right now.

*It's now 4 in the morning and I'm going to sleep.

I see the new posts. The site had a network timeout. I'm still going to sleep because fuck if I care at 4:30 in the morning.

[CarbonFiber]

Was that Brian or NotScience?

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, I really need to get to bed as well. Someone quote Mac's post where he voted me and tell him he is bad and should feel bad for voting someone because they didn't make a case and restore my faith in humanity.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

And yeah, I figured the above was Brian, never mind.
~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, I wasn't really sure when to come out with this but I am going to post it now:

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

We are counterclaiming Rancid Broderick Drake as a miller.

Here is our full role claim:

1) Our character name is Luke from Tales of the Abyss.

2) We are a town replica.

3) We return as "replica" to all cops.

4) We also have an ability to set up neighborhoods. Each day, we send the name of a mothership title (like Tales of the Abyss) to Cabd and he sets up a neighborhood for all the people in that title. For instance, we sent him "Tales of the Abyss" today and he set up a neighborhood for us, BRO-Desp, Nacho-Bork, and GIF. (This is the reason why I haven't interacted with Nacho in thread and I figured ffery/others would pick up on it). Based on the interactions in the neighborhood, I am massively confident that BRO and Desp are town.

-- Moving on, reasons for why we are counterclaiming now as opposed to earlier.

I honestly wasn't sure whether RBD were gambiting with their miller claim or were serious. It only slowly started to sink in at some point that they were serious about it. I was also certain enough about Mastin being scum that I was fine with a Mastin lynch followed by RBD locking themselves into a gladiate with BRO-Desp and then counterclaiming them. As it turns out, we seem to be headed toward a mislynch one way or another. I am not really sure at what point I realized that RBD were serious about their claim and re-read our role realized we had the same role. But on an initial read, I sort of skimmed through and didn't really register that we were a miller.

We claimed in the neighborhood. Only BRO-Desp were online and responded to it.

So, basically

RBD is scum

. We are counterclaiming their role. This is not a lolgambit. I don't do those. Whether or not you believe this was the optimal time to claim is always going to be debatable. I am happy to answer questions but this is going to be a 1v1 with us and RBD.

I expect other questions like why we were tunneling Mastin as opposed to RBD: I was sure he was scum. Initially we thought RBD were gambiting so didn't pay attention. Later, they claimed they would gladiate BRO-Desp so were biding our time hoping to get another scum read lynched while they lock themselves into a gladiate with an outside player (us) counterclaiming them assuring their lynch. Any other questions, we'll answer as we see them.

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

[CarbonFiber]

Oh, also there was no need for us to rush into cc'ig RBD. If we die and flip, they get hanged so it is not a like a cop guilty where we have to out it before we die.

~ F-16

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

None of that explains why you didn't claim miller at an earlier point.

Presumably you have town reads on all the people you neighbourised, and you didn't claim miller there, either?

Oh, also there was no need for us to rush into cc'ig RBD. If we die and flip, they get hanged so it is not a like a cop guilty where we have to out it before we die.

Except you wouldn't have flipped "miller" (and neither will we) so this doesn't make sense

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Here are some things that don't make sense:

- If we had not clarified that we were serious about claiming miller, you would have left it and, presumably if you had been investigated by a cop, you would have claimed miller after the cop claim and hoped people wouldn't lynch you? Why did whether or not we were serious about the miller claim matter?
- Why didn't you prod us about it earlier if you wanted to find out whether or not we were serious about it? We never gave any indication that we weren't serious about it and you never so much as mentioned it.
- Even if you actually are a town miller, why would you automatically assume we are scum fake-claiming here?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I was also certain enough about Mastin being scum that I was fine with a Mastin lynch

I also do not believe this part, especially if you think I am scum.

The way I've interacted with Mastin in this game should make it obvious to anyone with at least half a brain cell that we're not scum together (and I don't particularly care if you think I am trying to WIFOM here, I'm not)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

And while I'm thinking about it, what were all the reach-outs to me recently where you were apparently considering the possibility I was town?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Let's assume you are town and I'll try to figure the game from there and see if it makes sense.

@ Muffin, I am trying to work with you to see if I can make sense of the game with you-town and if you want to do that, I'm all ears.

These do not look like the words of someone who thinks I am scum

Unless you are going to claim these were a gambit of sorts?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, to further elaborate on why #2185 is a load of shit, unless Cabd pastes role PMs on flip, we are going to flip Sword Dancer, Town Battleseeker. We will not flip "hated", "miller", "gladiator" or "age cop" - those are all just components of our role.

So no, #2185 does not explain anything, and I think is something you just made up off the top of your head because you weren't thinking straight.

Unless you're going to claim that you'll flip "miller", in which case (apart from being obvious bullshit) you lied about the role name in the post you claimed.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, I have no intention of full claiming our role regardless of whether we actually get run up, but I will clarify that the gladiator and age-cop part of our role are tired together. Our action is a night action, we're told the age of whoever we gladiate at day start, and depending on their age, there are certain restrictions and / or benefits to the battle. For example, if we battle a child, the duel ends if our opponent reaches L-2 and the day proceeds as normal after that (doesn't happen if we reach L-2 though). I will not be saying what happens if we battle a beast or an adult, so don't ask.

If we are lynched, vig the fuck out of F16. If he isn't dead tomorrow, lynch him purely on policy, please. Do not let him talk his way out of it by floating the idea that there are possibly two town millers. That will be what he tries to do, and even if he is town, he should be lynched anyway, just in case.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Though, you being in a neighbourhood with DespBro explains the "scum theatre" bullshit, because that was definitely Desp's idea, not yours. Though I'd be interested in hearing why you agree with him.

And you having day talk in that neighbourhood also explains the thing I thought might have been a slip from BRO

[Clyton]

@RG

What does Tammy have to do with Mastin's roleclaim?

That was a mistake; I meant to put Mastin.

[Just Sheep Us]

WOOHOO YOU DECIDED TO CC.

VOTE: RBD

CAN WE STOP BEING BAD AND LYNCH SCUM NOW KTHX.

Also, p5 catching CF's read switching on cupcake and AP catching bork's QT thing were both things that had to do with the neighborhood (the cupcake-town read originated from me, and bork/Nacho being in the neighborhood means that they are dealing with multiple QTs)

[Just Sheep Us]

Also, muffin, he explained why he didn't CC earlier:

I honestly wasn't sure whether RBD were gambiting with their miller claim or were serious. It only slowly started to sink in at some point that they were serious about it. I was also certain enough about Mastin being scum that I was fine with a Mastin lynch followed by RBD locking themselves into a gladiate with BRO-Desp and then counterclaiming them. As it turns out, we seem to be headed toward a mislynch one way or another. I am not really sure at what point I realized that RBD were serious about their claim and re-read our role realized we had the same role. But on an initial read, I sort of skimmed through and didn't really register that we were a miller.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

No, it doesn't.

Miller isn't a role that you "counter-claim", it's a role that you outright claim. I've seen a miller hide their claim twice before, but in one situation (Nati), he claimed it to his lover pregame, and I'm not going to talk about the other situation until I see what F16 answers the questions

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(Also that explanation is flawed for a number of other reasons - including the fact that I don't believe he was confident enough in Mastin flipping scum that he thought it would be a good play, and i don't believe he read his role PM pregame and then forgot he was a miller, but sure, whatever, ignore all logic and reason and assume it makes sense)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I mean, let's play a game here, BRO

Hypothetically,

You opened your PM this game, found out you were a miller

What do you do?

Do you:

(a) forget about it, never discuss it with your hydra partner - including how you were going to claim your role, and then see another miller claim and not push them on it or go, "hmm, that's odd!"

or

(b) not do that