Tales of You (Endgame)

[Cabd]

Votecount 2-11 (unchanged from 2-10)

With 14 players alive, it will take 8 votes to lynch or nolynch.


MastinSSK (4): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Yggdra Union, orcinus_theoriginal
Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda
Nachomamma8 (3): Titan, Red Gyarados, AngryPidgeon,

MastinSSK

CupcakePanda (1): The Fox and the Hound


Not Voting (4): Nachomamma8, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin

Mod Notes:

With 14 players alive, deadline is set for 15 days: (expired on 2014-05-07 22:26:21)

[Just Sheep Us]

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

pedit: "i will vote mastin at deadline" isnt a fucking scumread, are you serious?

[Just Sheep Us]

you voted me ap and orcinus at deadline d1 and last i checked you think we're all town now so...no

[Breakfast With Sandy]

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

pedit: "i will vote mastin at deadline" isnt a fucking scumread, are you serious?

I've been exercising extreme restraint for days now, thinking that I had a bias problem going on. I may have a bias problem but I don't care any more. I'm not going to spend any more time rereading, rethinking, reconsidering, or trying to understand other players' reads on mastinssk.

I'm done.

It doesn't really matter when I vote. I doubt very seriously my vote will go anywhere else today.

[MastinSSK]

Then take your own goddamn advice about confbias.

*points to literally the entirety of third page of iso*

I did.

You've not been a consistent scumread.

You've wavered.
Consistently.

I've been trying to work you out.
I've been trying to sort out your alignment.
I've been putting effort into the read.
Even reached out to you.

And this time, you're the one who's been blocking me, rather than vice-versa.
Because I've been listing things that have concerned me. I've been a literal fucking open book about my thoughts, on everything, about how I feel, and I get nothing.

And it's not just you. Aside from a singular scumread on AP and not wavering on Titan/DesBRO/F-16/Yggdra townreads, there's basically been zero reads of mine that have been set in stone. Because I haven't been biasing. Because I HAVE been trying to figure things out. Hell! Even my second-strongest scumread, on PV. That's something that's been there far, FAR more often than not. But I'm wavering. I'm not sure. God, I wish I was. I wanted to sheep Rancid, there, so damn badly. But specifically because of my trust in others and self-doubt, I haven't been. It's literally right there in front of your fucking eyes.

That doubt.
Everywhere.

When I say to read my damn posts.
I really mean to read my god-damned posts.

Because I've been reaching out, I've been trying to solidify, I've been trying to get things coherent, I've been trying to piece things together, to work with others, to bridge the gap and figure things out, as I said a town leader should be. And bluntly, I haven't been succeeding. Because nobody has been listening to me. They'll occasionally (not consistently) respond to me. But they're not truly paying attention. They're not putting the time and effort that I am into things. They're not trying to truly figure me out. They say they are. And I'm sure the town players among them fully believe they are. But there's an entire lack of evidence that they actually have. Because every time that I try to work with them. Every time I explain myself. Every time that I have been doing what they have said they're also doing...the result I get is a stone wall, blocking it. A burnt bridge. Not following through on inquiries they asked me. Not responding to inquiries of mine. Lashing out. Calling my moves scum-driven. Calling my posting noise.

Which is why I say it, and will say it once again.
The effort is there. The attempt is there. To let others see me, because it's right in front of them. They just have to give the actual effort they claim they want to give.

So go ahead. Do you have questions for me?
Be honest. Do you?
If you spent the time reading my iso, do you think that I don't raise a lot of good points?
If you read the game, do you see how many of my questions went unaddressed but someone else later asked the same thing and got a response?
I'm not asking to be sheeped. (Though I'd of course like that, onto AP.) I am asking to be listened to. And bluntly?

My main concern to you. Boiled down. What all my other points trace back to, at their very core. Is that while you talk the talk about reaching out...I'm not seeing walking the walk and actually pay attention. You're making assumptions. You're being defensive. Snappy. Lashing out about it. Things that I have said, which were not made in ill will. Things that were legitimate concerns. Raised not to lynch you, but to get clarity about you.

I am the polar opposite of being confirmation bias right now. Because I have perfect clarity...on how much I lack clarity at all.

[MastinSSK]

because I want nothing to do with you this game day.

I'm the damn leading lynch candidate. This is potentially the only chance you get.

I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to interact with you at all.

......

Seriously. Who's the one here.
Really.

Who has confirmation bias?

It sure as hell isn't me.

Read that damn statement to yourself out loud. What does it sound like?

I've tried to understand you. I've tried to figure you out. I've tried to piece together your thoughts...and come up empty. Because you keep on doing shit like this. That keeps me from seeing the path. You keep saying you're transparent. But I'm not seeing it, and efforts to help me understand have been stopped dead. I mean, while I think that it's obvious that my thoughts are transparent, when people actually have asked (which, btw, they mostly...haven't), I've answered. I've tried. Really, really tried. To bridge the gap, to let them see what I saw.

You. Haven't.

And this is basically the polar opposite. Absolute inversion. Of what I've come to expect from ffery. I expect ffery to be the one reaching out. I expect ffery to be the one telling ME that I've locked her out of the loop. I expect her to try and work with me. I expect reach-outs from her, and that she would actually put effort into us working together.

But here?

You just said that bluntly, you want absolutely none of that.
And you think I'm being "opportunistic" scum for calling. you. out.

[MastinSSK]

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

Which, again, is the entire reason I'm concerned about ffery. Because this isn't the her I've come to known as town. It simply...isn't.

I've been consistently analyzing her, trying to figure out her alignment. I've reached out to her constant times; isoing the third page of me will show plenty of posts about Stalin--asking other players about her, directly interacting with her, and whatnot. Not putting her down. Not shooting her points down. Not arguing that she's scum. Trying to understand. Not understanding what she's saying. Trying to figure out her alignment. There's plenty of analysis that doesn't interact with her, and yes in a fair amount she's listed as scum and in most as a leading scum candidate. But even when I voted her, I wasn't well and truly scumreading her. I was still trying. I still am. To figure what the fuck is going on in her head, where she acts this way.

Because it makes no sense. It doesn't match what I know of her at all.

I don't know. My heart (not gut. Heart) is telling me that she is...but that she's on the verge of an emotional breakdown of some sort. (And if so, town.) That she's checked out of the game, that something has somehow snapped, that she's going to have something similar to what BROseidon did. But I don't know enough about her to tell, and quite frankly? If that wasn't the case. If she isn't on the verge of snapping. If this is a normalish ffery? Then I simply can't see how it's her town self.

[MastinSSK]

I've been exercising extreme restraint for days now, thinking that I had a bias problem going on.

You do. Listen to your words. You've given up on the one damn thing.
ONE. DAMN. THING. Above all others!
That the ffery I know is best at. At bridging gaps. At mending rifts. Not tearing them wider. You're not trying to understand.

So if you're town. I have only one thing to say to you at this point:
What. the.

fuck

.

I don't know what you need. To take a breather. A step back from this game. Out of it entirely. Just mafia in general. A lecture. A rant. A diplomatic letter. I don't know you well enough to know how to push the right buttons to make you actually be playing mafia again. So bluntly, this will probably be offensive. I'm not going to tell you that you need to leave the game. But I have every right to demand something of you, if you are town.

Get your shit together

.
Or at least have the guts beyond muttering "I'm done" to admit that you haven't.

This is abrasive. To be frank, it's fully possible it'll tick you off even more and make things worse. But they're words that need to be said in some form or another. Someone else can say them less offensively, more diplomatically, more nice, in a more polite tone. But bluntly, you are not yourself. So if you are town. Give me my town-ffery back. Because this? What you're doing right now? Isn't her.

[MastinSSK]

(I do want to trust my heart about that, by the way.
AP as scum.
{Nacho, Red Gyarados, orcinus_theoriginal, PV} is my scumpool.
I want to investigate the viability of AP-Nacho-Guarados-orc.)

[MastinSSK]

A final bit about ffery:
I am fully aware that as I type about her, I am not in full emotional control, either. I can feel the anger on my end, and I know that it's bled into my posting. That abrasiveness, that bluntness, that lack of concern, the "insulting" tone. And honestly, that's where the heart feeling comes from--from guessing she's got that on her end, too. But me, me I've had it. I'm aware of it. I'm actively trying to manage it, control it, to be the best I can in spite of the emotional compromisation.

So when it comes to her. Because she's someone I respect. Because she's someone I normally enjoy playing with. Because she's someone I normally can get along with, even when we can't communicate that effectively. Because I hold her in high regard. Seeing her act in a way so contrary to everything I know is basically a red flag. I've been thinking red flag for her being mafia. But through what I can best describe as being Fire Forged Friends, I kinda feel like I might be understanding her. Oh, yes. Fully possible I'm entirely off-base. Especially if this is her scumgame. But if I'm on the right track, then...

...Well, I know that red flags for emotionally snapping are things that need to be confronted immediately. My approach could make things worse, I don't know. Some people when faced with that hostility can see the truth in it and realize where it comes from, other people take it as a deep personal attack. But it's the approach that I felt needed to be said. Because it conveys how I'm feeling. I could lie and say I'm calm. I'm calmer than I have been, but not calm by any stretch of the imagination. I know that I could cause hurt to her. Obviously, I'm hoping I don't, and it wasn't my intention. But it had to be said. Getting that off my chest.

Because that's the only way I could think of to move forward. I am angry. I know she is angry. We can make the anger worse, or we can confront it and either cave into it or shove it aside. I'm trying for the latter.

[Yggdra Union]

pdodge. I've only been like half following the past few pages. more later

-Y

[The Fox and the Hound]

Players claiming to be doing NKA and to some extent VCA are liars if they don't take that into consideration for their read on me. 'Cause that?
Is not some trivial fucking statistic. That is extremely relevant to the whole core of the game.

Mastin, while I disagree that the reads of dead players who are familiar with you should be trusted (I've said the same thing as both town and scum so HMMMM), actually attacking people for not agreeing with you is pretty ridiculous.

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

I feel really similar to ffery to be fair. I mean theoretically I should be reading mastin's posts closely/interacting with her so I can either decide that I agree with Ceph's recent town thoughts about her or confirm my scumread so I can better discuss the read with Ceph, but am I actually going to do that? I don't think so.

I think with mastin it's gotten to the point (at least in my mind) where there's just SO MUCH posting and a lot of it to me feels like what I would expect from scum, but a lot of it also feels like it could be from town and makes me doubt my read. Being my almost-zero-confidence self I don't know whether or not I should be trusting that, and with all the conflicting content, trying to figure out whether it's scum faking town-ness but slipping up at times, or just me calling things scummy that aren't, has become such a chore that I'm pretty done with it myself. Obviously the confidence thing doesn't apply to everyone, but not really being up to interacting with Mastin is completely understandable imo and I think some of the above may be reasons for others as well.

Ceph has other obligations at the moment and I won't push a vote without him unless I feel that it becomes necessary, but where

I

am at is that I have a legitimate scumread on Cupcake which I'd probably be more ok with lynching now than I was when I voted, but I'd also be quite willing to lynch Mastin. Obviously Ceph thinks Mastin's town though and I haven't heard back from him about the former so I don't know where we'll end up.

[Titan]

Mastin's posts to ffery last night remind me of his posts to me in Attack on Titan. I imagine I frustrated him because I didn't give him much he could argue against as I was scum reading his slot merely because the game just made more sense to me if he was scum.

His tone and frustration feels similar.

[Nachomamma8]

I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Before I get into the rest of the stuff, let me just point out this. Aside from my lack of paranoia on Nacho and assuring others that Nacho would be townreading me, there is literally nothing.
NOTHING.

In my posting.

That I can buy.
Even remotely.

A town Nacho not townreading. Those two things (which are arguably the same thing) are literally the only damn thing in my play that could possibly have pinged Nacho on me, at all. Yet this? This says otherwise. That he's either nulling me or deeply concerning (even scumreading) me. Which quite frankly, I don't buy. From BROseidon who (after this game) will have a Fate-reading-RECK card on me, sure, yeah, I can buy that type of misread. From Nacho?

Fuck no, I won't. That he doesn't have the townread is itself a red flag.

But even then. Let's assume. Just for a fraction of a second. That somehow. He thinks this could possibly. Even remotely. Be a scum me. Being willing to take that to a vote? Especially when I'm the lead wagon? Also not a town-Nacho behavior. ESPECIALLY with a lack of interaction before-hand! Nacho showing concern for me as town? Interacts with me. If he is sure I'm scum after that interaction, vote. Never a moment before.

But let's say that he did. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, there.
There's the fact that he says the last two pages of my spewing has given him doubt-on-scumread. Which is bullshit, since the last two pages of me has been quite frankly the most nulled content I've been posting in a long time. The towniest aspects in the posting are things that have existed not only for the entirety of P3 of my iso, not only the entirety of today, but ALSO of my play throughout the game. So the reason for not voting me isn't valid, either.

Lack of correct read. Lack of interaction. Lack of proper reasoning, of the right chain of thought.

That is not a town Nacho. The bit at the end is thrown in as essentially an after-thought. Something like that, asked earlier and throughout the game? Yeah, town-him. Right now? No.

Are you fucking kidding me? I've been having doubts on your slot because your posting hasn't been focused in on achieving a town-oriented goal: it's been a constant onslaught of posting that doesn't stop because you know that you need to keep up constant production to keep the game state the way it is as opposed to constantly working on forming reads, reworking the game, determining alignment. Hilariously enough, I thought that your unshakeable faith in us being town meant that you saw what I see in Bork's play, meaning that you understand how I function as a hydra partner when my partner is having a breakout game as scum (which, for the record, in this case happened when bork was getting pretty fucking bored of mafia in general as shown by siteflake midgame) and you know that if my partner's playing off the fucking chain that I don't completely abandon them and tell everyone I'm going to drink shots for every time that you're called town.

And this shit about "oh, if Nacho misreads me, he's scum" isn't natural and is an old tactic that's already been hashed out before: you understand me well enough and have seen my thought process well enough to understand that I have doubts. You're correct: if I laid in a vote on you when I wasn't engaged, hadn't interacted with you, that would be a scumclaim. I didn't. I expressed concern about you and made engaging with you my #1 priority (even though, let's be honest, I owe the neighborhood a hell of a lot more posting and footwork than I owe you), but you're reacting as harshly as you are right now because you know that a strong solid, scumread from me means that you're dead in the water.

[Titan]

UNVOTE:

[Breakfast With Sandy]

shit took off after I fell asleep, so rewinding a bit

Who are the people that you would be willing to lynch come deadline? This is more so we don't have crazy flashwagons the day of the deadline.

This is without consulting Ffery, mind you:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton

(I do still think there's scum in my top tier town reads, but I'm not willing to act on that until I have a better idea of who it might be)

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, I am unsure about Clyton but I am strongly townreading Titan and I don't think that their neighborhood activity is alignment relevant. For one, they've only had the neighborhood starting on D2 whereas we've had the neighborhood from D1 and had lots of time to talk through things. Also, for most of the time that Titan/Clyton neighborhood has been active, Clyton was on V/LA, Tammy busy, and I don't think Arthur checked in for a long time so I wouldn't read too much into it.

I'm not, too much.

But I also looked at Tammy's iso. There is much less scumhunting or content than Tammy normally provides.

Her claimed actions seem out of tune with a town mindset.
For example, has everyone in your neighborhood claimed to each other?

There seems to be a "tunnel on Kagura" attitude shared by Mastin yet I can't seem to locate the reason Tammy is finding Kagura so scummy that any posts containing content involve screams to lynch Kagura.

So, if you can explain your townread source on TammyTitan, I'd appreciate it.

[Titan]

LOL

[Titan]

Why pray tell did you have a town read on me before if I'm not providing content?

I'd be happy to claim to the entire damn thread. It makes no difference to me.

[PeregrineV]

shit took off after I fell asleep, so rewinding a bit

Who are the people that you would be willing to lynch come deadline? This is more so we don't have crazy flashwagons the day of the deadline.

This is without consulting Ffery, mind you:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton

(I do still think there's scum in my top tier town reads, but I'm not willing to act on that until I have a better idea of who it might be)

@Beli- so a sentence about why each is scum, iyo.

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

[PeregrineV]

Why pray tell did you have a town read on me before if I'm not providing content?

I'd be happy to claim to the entire damn thread. It makes no difference to me.

Your early game posting and general attitude seemed how you play as town, even if your overall posting level was lower. I attributed that to hydraing. You weren't a strong townread because I didn't feel the same level of town intensity I did from you before. Figured I'd revisit that further into the game.

And now it's day2, and you have an additional sucmhunting tool at your disposal (the neighborhood). And so I'm curious why your posting has stayed the same, despite having that. So I looked. And objectively, your ISO is awful in terms of scumhunting.

Why did you claim to Clyton when you don't have him as a strong townread?

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Because none of that makes any sense, especially with this:

Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda

[Titan]

You know what Peregrine. I'm not going to respond to you. I've already answered the questions you're asking me. And quite frankly I feel like you're just trying to look busy. I would maybe make an effort to explain myself to you but we saw how well that turned out in the Board Game. I quite frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with your apparent inability to see that the questions you've asked have already been answered.

My ISO is awesome in terms of scumhutning, but hey baby cakes glass houses.

but in case i wasn't clear. I'D CLAIM TO THE ENTIRE DAMN THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SCUM KNOW WHAT I AM. I WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Because none of that makes any sense, especially with this:

Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda

Read the fucking thread.

Geezuz fucking Christ.