Tales of You (Endgame)

[Nachomamma8]

As in, the correct response when role information directly contradicts your reads isn't "oh, I guess my reads are right and lolcabdgame!"

But it seems so implausible that AP is acting the way he has been and is actually town.

That and Mastin's read. Unless AP is doing a mega-troll on us and thought "hey, let me play to my scum-meta to troll Mastin and also spend a ton of time accusing obvtown of being scum, that should be fun, fun, fun!"

"But it's a really strong read!"

But it is so unlikely Mastin was wrong.

Too Many Heads...?

[CarbonFiber]

@ Tammy, still want to hear what those niggles on your meta are about.

Oh I don't want to tell you.

>_<

>_>

<_<

You got the tonal things right though! And that there are things I wouldn't have said as scum!

@ Tammy, still want to hear what those niggles on your meta are about.

Well, I am going to find out on my own anyways. I may occasionally think a null-tell is alignment indicative but I am pretty quick to re-adjust. I know for sure that you can twitch at people as scum for instance. I wonder how long it will take for me to figure you out if you draw scum in a game where I am town. I am betting 25 posts.

[Nachomamma8]

But it might be a mistake assuming someone is fallible.

[AngryPidgeon]

"Why is f16 town?"

"Well he's been obviously town in thread and the hood"

Sigh.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I don't know if he's top of Beli's list, but Beli feels very strongly that the role has to be town despite cabd game paranoia.

does beli feel strongly that multiple gladiating roles must be town?

i think at the time his choice for the cagefight seemed ok but i thought business was town before and i think there were better choices. or he could have just put up two scummy people like us and rancid and let that resolve itself d1 rather than festering over into d2.

The thread was still utterly stunned with the shining towniness BRO was radiating. That wasn't going to happen.

He could have put two nulls null/scum in the ring but part of his reason for doing it the way he did was that he thought he'd be able to discuss stuff with the players he gladiated during the cagematch. He stated as much beforehand.

[PeregrineV]

Random thoughts:

If JustSheep is confirming AP targeted Breakfast, and Breakfast is confirmed non-Replica and confirmed message sending whatever, then unless scum is AP/Carbon/JSU/Breakfast , they are all town.
Alternative is some roles are not as they are claimed.

Cupcake claim & timing is suboptimal scumplay. More probable is that Cupcake was blocked.

Leaving
1 nachomamma8
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
16 Penguin_Alien

Tammy is a townread to everybody except me. You can have that one for now.

Leaving 5
1 nachomamma8
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
16 Penguin_Alien

[Titan]

Thoughts on Tammy's

disorganized rambling

awesome reads list:

Magenta - I still like the way orci interacted with me day one. It had nothing of the feel of the way he interacted with me as scum in vesperia. Granted he could be changing up his scum techniques from that game like he did for others in that game, but I had some strong really valid reasons for him being scum in that game although this whole tempo of this game is different so. I *suppose* he could have voted me to provoke a reaction and when he didn't get one and after I said I thought he was town from vibes decided to drop it! but idk. Also I *do* like the way that he handled cage fight. I liked his interaction with me and he clearly thought he was going to be able to talk. Not exactly sure what to think about Maria's recent posts and having me as town though I'd really like to take her orci has you as town and I'd like to learn the markers for why I misread you thing at face value. Paranoia concerning a bussing nacho to make the self-govern thing and make them look town still skitters.

I actually liked Mara's initial interaction with you and the whole "I want to work together" felt town and I think she would be inclined to avoid you as scum. I didn't like her initial asking me about my Clyton read and it felt like a really odd thing to push but the later accusing me for giving a summary to Penguin felt town and like she genuinely believed it. I am concerned about Nacho bussing as well since it seems like too much of a co-incidence that the D1 governor got lynched D1 but then Nacho would know that it would look fishy. I also didn't like Nacho's lack of follow up after being certain.

Why would you think she'd be inclined to ignore me as scum? She planned to push me do yo paranoia from previous games in vesperia.

How has AP been collaborative? He's funny which makes me think town but he's AP.

I've felt like he's been collaborative. He's asked me questions and talked to me in a way that sounded like he was trying to figure things out.

PA - lean town here. She feels unfiltered in the neighborhood, but I've been a bad neighbor the past couple days so I need to fix that to firm up this read. She's also part of claim dream state. I will say that if penguin is scum, she is scum with someone who knows me and gave Clyton advice for how to manipulate me. The role usage makes sense from a town perspective and part of it is confirmed to me, dream state is toying with how I can use that part in the most effective way. Anyway, I hope to have this firmed up a bit. Did I already say I'm a bad neighbor? I have some catching up in there to do.

I am really paranoid about the "unfiltered thoughts" and the pointing out things about me she doesn't like. Reminds me of how sure everyone was of Ghatokaca-town in Wicked based on the neighborhood. It feels like she is saying all these things in secret and the rest of us can't see what it is.

I need to revisit RG and The Fox and The Hound as well and I'll probably do that in a few days.

LOL. You sound like me with your neighborhood. Tbf a good portion of our talking was during the night. And she has out the thoughts that she's had in the thread. She hasn't hidden anything. She puts a lot of thought into the posts she posts in thread. She just sounds a bit spontaneous with her thoughts in the neighborhood. I like that.

[PeregrineV]

This is true. Maybe you could explain, like Stalin, why it in not in the Town's best interest for you to claim.

I can explain a few possibilities for our role.

1) Triggered Untargetable: Nonkilling roles target us, we become untargetable by any other actions.
2) Commuter (limited or full)
3) Ascetic
4) One-Shot Commuter, other goodies elsewhere

All of these mean that scum have to deal with our role differently. It's obviously useless for them to burn rolecop/roleblocker on me if I'm a full commuter or Ascetic, might be a consideration for a kill based on other goodies, etc. etc. etc.

Actually, it's useless for them to burn blocks on you because you are unblockable, right?

[Titan]

As in, the correct response when role information directly contradicts your reads isn't "oh, I guess my reads are right and lolcabdgame!"

But it seems so implausible that AP is acting the way he has been and is actually town.

That and Mastin's read. Unless AP is doing a mega-troll on us and thought "hey, let me play to my scum-meta to troll Mastin and also spend a ton of time accusing obvtown of being scum, that should be fun, fun, fun!"

"But it's a really strong read!"

But it is so unlikely Mastin was wrong.

Too Many Heads...?

Mastin was scum thee.

[Titan]

@ Tammy, still want to hear what those niggles on your meta are about.

Oh I don't want to tell you.

>_<

>_>

<_<

You got the tonal things right though! And that there are things I wouldn't have said as scum!

@ Tammy, still want to hear what those niggles on your meta are about.

Well, I am going to find out on my own anyways. I may occasionally think a null-tell is alignment indicative but I am pretty quick to re-adjust. I know for sure that you can twitch at people as scum for instance. I wonder how long it will take for me to figure you out if you draw scum in a game where I am town. I am betting 25 posts.

I want you to find out on your own! It's more fun that way.

Probably fewer than that though!

[Titan]

This is true. Maybe you could explain, like Stalin, why it in not in the Town's best interest for you to claim.

I can explain a few possibilities for our role.

1) Triggered Untargetable: Nonkilling roles target us, we become untargetable by any other actions.
2) Commuter (limited or full)
3) Ascetic
4) One-Shot Commuter, other goodies elsewhere

All of these mean that scum have to deal with our role differently. It's obviously useless for them to burn rolecop/roleblocker on me if I'm a full commuter or Ascetic, might be a consideration for a kill based on other goodies, etc. etc. etc.

Actually, it's useless for them to burn blocks on you because you are unblockable, right?

Right!

[Nachomamma8]

But there's still rolecops.
I'm not claiming. Shoot me and find out if I can die!

[Nachomamma8]

Mastin was scum thee.

I used that as an example of people being infallible with reads that are normally pretty on point.

[Just Sheep Us]

"Why is f16 town?"

"Well he's been obviously town in thread and the hood"

Sigh.

/shrug, i didn't say it would be earth shattering. i don't think f-16 is capable of playing the way he's played as scum.

[Just Sheep Us]

and now i'm gonna go hustle up some cash money

[AngryPidgeon]

WTF Nacho? I accused you of being scum for your and AP's hydra discussions in thread which you didn't respond to. Why are acting surprised I brought this up?

How is this at all a scumtell by any stretch of the imagination?

I dont even understand what is being discussed, please advise.

This talk about whether or not Tammy is setting up the neighborhood (and what motive Deps had for lurking as well) is tedious and pedantic. 3/10, would avoid reading all those quoted posts again.

felt town and I think she would be inclined to avoid you as scum.

Mara explicitly said something like "Dont worry, I'll not talk to you" until later on when she was addressed by tammy.

How has AP been collaborative? He's funny which makes me think town but he's AP.

I haven't even been putting in an effort at humor this game, >.>. Maybe D1. But D2 I just felt backed into a corner and generally annoyed at various people (mostly mastin) to be in good spirits.

It feels like she is saying all these things in secret and the rest of us can't see what it is.

Jesus Christ, this is exactly Tammy's complaint about your neighborhood all game.

[Nachomamma8]

I dont even understand what is being discussed, please advise.

I said I wanted to hydra with you.
F-16 took this as a sign of an AP/Nacho team.
I thought this scumtell was dumb.

[Nachomamma8]

I dont even understand what is being discussed, please advise.

I said I wanted to hydra with you.
F-16 took this as a sign of an AP/Nacho team.
I thought this scumtell was dumb.

[Nachomamma8]

DV: I don't think your avatar is all that cute and I don't think you're a very nice person.

[AngryPidgeon]

And Cupcake decides to all of a sudden think "Hey, let me try to fake-claim results on AP to get him lynched!"

Remind me again why you aren't considering the possibility that Katsuki is bussing me? I recall (you?) someone bringing it up and TBH Im surprised you somehow actually believe KAtsuki is town out of all this. I just dont get how you are slicing the game state in such a way that you think Katsuki is anything other than lying at this point. Your resistance to thinking KAtsuki is scum is more mind-blowing than your blind insistence tha I am scum. I can almost see the confirmation bias on me. Almost. But Katsuki? Why the hell are you married to that townread?

It is not that he is my last major scumread. It is that Mastin and Rancid flipping town was a wake up call and I realized that they wanted AP dead all along. If one of Mastin/Rancid flipped town, I wouldn't have gone after the other because they said that the other was town. But BOTH flipping town and telling us to get AP dead? That only increased my suspicion rather than throw me off.

Really, it was? Lets see, you still think PA is scummy. You still think I a m scummy. You are still waffling on Nacho and/or think hes scum with me, I cant actually tell. Nothing about your posting suggests that you reanalyzed after those townflips. All that happened is your reads stayed the same but for different reasons.

p-edit: Oh. I saw he brought that up before and I cannot actually believe he asked Tammy to hydra with him in this same game and is calling me scum over this. Im seriously going to just heave-ho this laptop right out the window if he flips town. So

@Cabd: preemptive permanent V/LA for me if CF ever flips town, tia

[CarbonFiber]

Why would you think she'd be inclined to ignore me as scum? She planned to push me do yo paranoia from previous games in vesperia.

Mara explicitly said something like "Dont worry, I'll not talk to you" until later on when she was addressed by tammy.

Everytime Mara faced off with Tammy, it didn't end well for her. Lynched D1 in Swagtown and Tales of Vesperia, fooled by scum-Tam in Stacking the Deck and Too Many Heads. I had the feeling that scum-her would want to avoid interactions so that Tammy's townread on Orc would stay. But, a town-her would want to work with Tammy in developing reads. While she did initially avoid her, I think what she actually wanted was to work with her and it felt really genuine.

---

WANT NACHO READS LIST NOW

[AngryPidgeon]

if you're so familiar with my scum game i literally have no idea why you're so gung ho about me being the one manipulating the neighborhood. for one thing, both of the games you are using as reference we me lurking like a fucking boss all game, and now you're using those games as evidence for how i'm masterminding a neighborhood with nacho, falcon, and piegif in it???

get real

This post is kind of gross.

And all the corroboration of his claimed night actions/results fit where in this?

Im a Triple-Roleblocker Ninja Rolecop-Duping GodFather... of all Trades. Actually I am controlling PVs posting this game. My role gave me access to PV's account and Im just submitting his actions for him and posting for him to make a fuss about nothing.

Katsuki might feel he has room to squirm after AP's flip, considering his anti-town meta

Ya, Im reminded of Fate Mafia 2. But I don't see any indication that this is comparable to that game. Im 99% sure Panda is just trapped scum here. I realize that lynching a Panda is unethical given their endangered status, but this one is a mafia panda.

i was frustrated with what i perceived to be you dragging your feet (despite your hydra partner having a hard scumread on mastin before waffling on it) and i wanted you to take a stand on something

Did you not care about CF doing exactly this? I mean sure CF wasn't AS waffly but he still kept wanting to lynch mastin literally the entire day but wouldnt actually do it. And simultaneously expressed fear that the clock would run out and we would wagon a lurker again.

[CarbonFiber]

And Cupcake decides to all of a sudden think "Hey, let me try to fake-claim results on AP to get him lynched!"

Remind me again why you aren't considering the possibility that Katsuki is bussing me? I recall (you?) someone bringing it up and TBH Im surprised you somehow actually believe KAtsuki is town out of all this. I just dont get how you are slicing the game state in such a way that you think Katsuki is anything other than lying at this point. Your resistance to thinking KAtsuki is scum is more mind-blowing than your blind insistence tha I am scum. I can almost see the confirmation bias on me. Almost. But Katsuki? Why the hell are you married to that townread?

It is not that he is my last major scumread. It is that Mastin and Rancid flipping town was a wake up call and I realized that they wanted AP dead all along. If one of Mastin/Rancid flipped town, I wouldn't have gone after the other because they said that the other was town. But BOTH flipping town and telling us to get AP dead? That only increased my suspicion rather than throw me off.

Really, it was? Lets see, you still think PA is scummy. You still think I a m scummy. You are still waffling on Nacho and/or think hes scum with me, I cant actually tell. Nothing about your posting suggests that you reanalyzed after those townflips. All that happened is your reads stayed the same but for different reasons.

p-edit: Oh. I saw he brought that up before and I cannot actually believe he asked Tammy to hydra with him in this same game and is calling me scum over this. Im seriously going to just heave-ho this laptop right out the window if he flips town. So

@Cabd: preemptive permanent V/LA for me if CF ever flips town, tia

I don't know what to make of Katsuki. You are talking to me like I should have all the answers when I really don't. I had a townread on Katsuki based on meta. You hate it, you want to shove it out the window, cool. But meta nearly always worked for me in the past so I'm going to use it.

The hydra thing: The way you were discussing it felt like you had talked about it before. I am speculating at this point but it isn't a major reason for thinking you or Nacho are scum.

[CarbonFiber]

Did you not care about CF doing exactly this? I mean sure CF wasn't AS waffly but he still kept wanting to lynch mastin literally the entire day but wouldnt actually do it. And simultaneously expressed fear that the clock would run out and we would wagon a lurker again.

This was explained already. VCA doesn't work on me and will only leave you frustrated. I am slow to vote and withhold my vote a lot of the time.

[AngryPidgeon]

But it seems so implausible that AP is acting the way he has been and is actually town. That and Mastin's read. Unless AP is doing a mega-troll on us and thought "hey, let me play to my scum-meta to troll Mastin and also spend a ton of time accusing obvtown of being scum, that should be fun, fun, fun!"

Mastin will be the first person to tell you that my meta is mist. Mastin knows and understands that trying toread me off meta is a very difficult task and has explicitly said at some points that my scum and town meta are cyclical to a degree.

ap
stalin
falcon
nacho
titan
peregrinev

i really believe that if the 6 of us realize that we're all town this game is solved

Convince me? Seriously, convince me. Stalin is confirmed. PV is claiming vig so he gets a get out of lynch free card for the time being. Titan I buy. Falcon I really really need to be sold on. Nacho I really want to believe is town because everything hes saying matches my feelings, but I dont feel amazing about writing him off just yet.