Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[ZZZX]

You town read TSO

no he doesn't?

Sorry I read Xay is town as TSO is town


Oh fuck I suck :< (that rhymes lol)

[The Necromancers]

Is anyone strongly townreading Dry-Fit?

No, but your comment here might make me!



(In all seriousness, strongly? No. Reading as town? Yes, and enough to defend against a lynch pushed by my second-strongest scumread. Oh, and his posting on the page of this post is also solidly pro-town, soyeah.)

Whelp, after conferring with Jingle I'll be moving on at this point. I'm personally not seeing the Talah scum in the thread, and don't have much faith in meta, especially when it's not my experience.

Fear and spring starflower still sticking out on review.

SKOT has been pinging me recently, re-reading his iso his posts are wishy washy and I think he might include more qualifiers then me. He continuously mentions just poking Necro for reactions, just poking. 446 he calls them out for feeling evasive, but then counters by saying it's a null tell. Then 648 Necro gives you a good what for and he replies with 667, "Well I didn't really call you scum." Went from sitting on a fence to full on backtracking. Then the, I have suspicions on you but well sheep you anyways, because hey, I'm going to vote out noise instead of actually scumhunt.

VOTE: SKOT

Funnily enough?

You might have gotten the impression SKOT was a scumread of ours by our massive quarrel in-thread.
He's actually the opposite, a townread of mine. I've been letting it simmer, thinking it over, and while I'm still unsettled by some aspects, he's far more town than scum. (You voting him, admittedly, doesn't exactly instill confidence in his alignment being scum, especially when you vote him over Fear or talah or Aegor.)

So this game is giving me the shits right now so I'm going to lurk for a bit.

Hey! talah! Stop stealing my style!
Being a cheeky-ass scumbag is

my

thing, dammit!

(There are town ways to declare you're going to lurk.
There are scum ways to declare you are going to lurk.
This is the latter. It's not something I think I can easily explain, but basically, it's word choice and tonality. In that a town player lurking generally does so because they're feeling a bit lost, or for the sake of a gambit. Basically, they either don't know what to do so do nothing, or can't do anything because they're waiting for something. Yet when needing to declare the lurking, the latter is basically nullified if you say you're going to lurk so talah can't be gambitting, and when it comes to the former, a town player generally expresses their feelings, rather than bluntly saying they're going to lurk.
...Also, dissonance, in that having us as a strong scumread goes against the waffling-town-lurk.)

Also, the case on talah is dumb and I still want the anti/mastin hydra dead for many reasons.

you're still unengaged scum and i know it

^A very good summary of why talah is scum. (But I agree with Antihero on Aegor being scum anyway, though.)

[The Necromancers]

TheNecro what about you?

Anti will have his own which'll be mostly similar to my own most likely but with some differences; mine will be posted as soon as I have the chance.

yo mastin
normalish micro just ended
so that "probably town, could be scum" thing that I had a problem with
was because in normalish you were like "town. town." and shit
yeah

Well, the reason for it was 'cause I was town and

didn't

know your alignment. (Just suspected.)

I felt your play here was different from that game where I was scumreading you, for what it's worth.

@tala case:
i don't think comparing activity in micros and activity in larges make for good meta cases

MASSIVELY understates what's in the talah case. talah being TALAH (meta) is basically only the icing on the cake of the scumread. If this were my first game with talah, I'd be making many of the same points against him. Me actually having a fairly-intimate knowledge of talah simply serves to augment the already-solidly-strong case.

At this stage I'm thinking Rach, possibly SSK, ZZZX, and *maybeee* Starflower depending on Sakura's input. Nati and Pere I have zero clue. Saki's absent which I think is actually slightly townleaning. Anyway.

I like Sakura's query.
I don't like that Nati might be stalking me (heheh)
Fear I figured would be posting more (at least the emogirl head who I briefly read something about in the scummies thread I think), so half an eye on them but not particularly worried right now
Marquis' hydra seems pretty easygoing so far
VOTE: SSK
For ignoring my question.

Though there is obviously some overlap, there is some

extreme

lack of follow-through on most of these players.

I'm going to guess that I'll still want to hang Xayzeck after reading the game. We'll see about this Necro wagon, since I was getting weird misguided town vibes from Mastin.

Right, now I remember why I was scumreading this.

I'm scumreading mastin particularly more since the shit-splosion she's tried to pull off because there's a lot of content there now where she's applying her own standards to me (and vice-versa) and at least logically that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'm applying YOUR standards to you. Which just so happen to be my standards. Because know who it was that pointed it out that ours were basically identical? You.

You were in 172 as well. I don't see how you'd expect me to be doing anything except what I do.

In the 2.5% chance you are town, the very fact that Zdenek was in 172 as well and agrees with my points should tell you something about your play here, talah. (Also, you're treating Zdenek as town but I don't remember you having stated a read on him. For that matter, have you stated a townread on basically anyone? I don't recall any.)

Anyway I'm just going to go ahead and claim that I have a PR.

Oh, fully believe you.

Just think it's a scum one.

Granted, as much as I really.

Really

.
Want to lynch you.

2.5% is enough that you deserve one night of leniency.

But just so you know, we're going to run you up on D2, force a claim, reduce the wagon just enough to avoid a speedlynch so that we can discuss anything we deem relevant, and then, lynch your scummy ass.

VOTE: Aegor.

[The Necromancers]

don't worry, though. this account will be at the top of the activity overview by the end of the week

If not this week (I'm kinda...busy), then next for sure.

What the fuck, talah?? Why claim on Day 1 -- is it because you're trying to get pressure off of you? Good luck with that, because you jumped out of the metaphorical oven and into a cauldron of "haha no".
[caled]

I fully agree, talah's basically scumclaimed.
I want talah alive anyway for just one day as a precaution.

Y'know, just in case.

(Also, on a purely delusions-of-grandeur note, if talah is scum and if scum don't have daytalk, I imagine reading his comments about me post-game will be more satisfying from a mafia QT rather than a dead QT. )

mmm, I have no idea how to take this. Either alignment could do it.

The ACTION, yes.

The WAY, no.
First answer as to why, meta. This is talah as town dropping a PR claim randomly. It served a point, had purpose, he used it as a weapon, and it was actually productive. Stupid, maybe a little bit, but logical and made sense. Whereas this game, it was just placed out there and has none.

Second answer as to why, again, kinda hard to describe, but basically...town players weaponize their PR claims. Scum players use PR claims as a defense. (Fitting the overall mechanics of town players being proactive and scum players reactive, btw.) A town player claiming a PR does so in order to pursue a cause; a scum player claims a PR in order to shut a cause down. And talah's was the latter. It served no purpose. It gained no ground. Least of all given the circumstances; even in the hypothetical scenario where talah is town, what kind of scum would kill talah with him being so suspected in spite of his claim? Maybe if he's lucky he'd get a block or redirect spent on him, but even then, it'd rely on scum being dumb (if talah doesn't have a PR affected) or incompetent (if talah does, gets a result, and actually wins a 1v1; I can tell you flat-out right here and now that if I was scum and if talah was town and talah claimed a guilty on us, we'd win hands-down, because we certainly are NOT incompetent).

In other words, the claim makes zero sense from a town perspective.
I really want to lynch him badly.

Really

, really badly for it.

But alas, I DO think it best to wait 'til tomorrow; it's a courtesy that I feel I owe him.

Thoughts on Xayzeck continue to be 'could be town, could be scum, lean town overall', btw. Very weakly town, yes, sure, but still there. I'm not ready to lynch him at all. Maybe I will be in a day or two. (Gameday.) But right now, no, not off of what I've seen. Sorry.

Aegor, on the other hand...yeah.

[The Necromancers]

Still need some time with all the wall posts but wanted to chime in.

Aegor's posting is scummy. I like how he's spent all game calling for Necro lynch, doesn't want to actually help push the wagon with vote at first. Leaving it on someone he thinks is scummier but is still a second choice for a lynch. See's his other attempt at a wagon that he was trying to push not going anywhere and swaps votes. The lack of content when also providing very little is also a concern.

VOTE: aegor

We also request Mastin pull is head out of the talah mistake that's going to happen and get back to hunting scum.

(Psst, Jingle.
Your hydra really looks like scum.
Otherhead kinda sorta vaguely interacting with Aegor positively, in a manner that doesn't look like town-interacting-with-scumread. Then you come in here with this. Which kinda looks like your style of bussing. Not really complaining since bus-votes are bus-votes, but I just thought I'd let you know.)

Mastin and Antihero, why do you refuse to take a stance on Xayzeck?

Eh, last I remember, Anti had him as scum (

edit:

nope, town, but rest of post still applies), so overall if push came to shove I'd trust his read on Xayzeck over my waffling own, but, well, I refuse to take a stance on Xayzeck because I'm waffling.

Mastin, either post a case on talah that isn't meta or sheep Antihero. Apparently, other me doesn't follow directions and won't tell you to take your head out of your ass, but there are other scum to find and I'm not feeling the D1 meta lynch.

FFS, THE. CASE. ON. TALAH. IS. LESS. THAN. 25%. META.

[Doublade]

mastin i get you want to lynch both talah and aegor but i don't get that if you think talah is so scum why don't you want to lynch them in spite of the pr claim. scum -> scum pr -> lynch scum pr over potential scum? i'm not liking how your train of thought is suddenly now willing to leave talah behind after focusing on seemingly only that for like... a lot of posts. walls mostly. lots of walls. no.

[marquis]

[The Necromancers]

7. Zdenek
8. TiphaineDeath
2. Doublade (Marquis/Caledfwitch)
1. Shiny Hydreigon (Wisdom/Notscience/Ms Marangal)

5. PeregrineV
3. Saki
4. ZZZX
6. Spring Starflower (Metal Sonic/Sakura Hana)
14. MafiaSSK
22. RachMarie

9. Sharpest-knife-on-tree
10. Dry-fit
12. Nachomamma8
17. Xayzeck
13. TSO

15. Natirasha
11. The Most Curious Thing
19. Fear (Yessiree/Emogirl123)
20. Jordan_Downey (Jingle/Aphix)
21. Aegor
16. Talah

Readslist something like this, approximately. Not much of a change, but some. talah and Aegor are both strong-scum. Jordan's highly-probable-scum. Fear's likely scum, TMCT is a slight scumread, and Nati's slot is barely a scumread but just enough to not be higher.

The section above that isn't scumreads and isn't nullreads and isn't townreads and isn't ambivalent waffles, so much as it is all at the same time, in that the names on the list and their positions are highly fluent. (For instance, Xayzeck could go up and SKOT could go down, as just two examples of the fluidity there.) I can

see

any of the names on there as scum, but right now I don't really believe any of them are.

Then you get into the townreads, which are players that I can envision being scum, but don't see it as being even remotely probable, having reasonably-strong townreads yet not rock-solid townreads. The top-tier town list is basically the elite of the elite. (Honestly, Mara's presence might be a bit premature, but eh.)

[Doublade]

ok wait never mind i understand the last part of 877 now

[Doublade]

5. PeregrineV

now i remember you doing things like this is exactly what makes me want to scumread you again.

pv barely posted anything and is now being replaced. how can you even have such a strong [null]townread on slots like this. it was the same earlier on for shiny and i really want to call it preemptive buddying or something

[marquis]

[The Necromancers]

mastin i get you want to lynch both talah and aegor but i don't get that if you think talah is so scum why don't you want to lynch them in spite of the pr claim.

A multitude of reasons, really.
-I strongly think Aegor is scum, too. Not as strongly as talah, but something like 93% isn't that far from 97.5%.
-Importantly, sheeping Antihero in that Anti has Aegor as

his

strongest scumread, and I really want to trust him on that.
-I've had very bad experiences lynching players I thought were claiming PRs truthfully just as scum ones, only to have them end up being the PR they said they were...for town. On D1.
* If so, then talah can claim on D2 with whatever relevant info his PR claim has to offer, whereas lynching him on D1 removes that. (Even if I don't think it's true, it's possible.)
* Furthermore, though improbable, his point about night actions is technically valid, in that leaving him alive and unclaimed if he is town produces wifom for the scum.
-If talah is scum, then he is going to be forced to fake (or realclaim) info on D2. Info which can then be analyzed.

i'm not liking how your train of thought is suddenly now willing to leave talah behind after focusing on seemingly only that for like... a lot of posts.

I don't like it, either. But that's how it is. I

want

to take the risk.
Really, really

want

to take that risk.

But I really, really shouldn't.

[The Necromancers]

pv barely posted anything and is now being replaced. how can you even have such a strong [null]townread on slots like this.

Because I remember liking what he posted?

That section is actually highly fluid; he's not really at the top of my "townish but not central core town" list, so much as he is the person that is just lazily residing as the highest position on a list.

[T S O]

You're just LOLtunneling because you're scum and you can yell loud.

So far not one person has offered me -one- compelling reason why Xayzeck is Town. Not one. I've presented my case and it had two reactions. Firstly, people rubbished it lazily and told me to vote their wagons (this is a really shit idea, by the way, it's so lazy and useless I don't know why you'd bother doing it). Secondly, Xayzeck replied to it.

Let's ignore the ins-and-outs of the case for a second (which you'll want to address) and focus on the aftermath. His reply was basically, "This ISN'T scummy, you're wrong, fuck shit ass" and I had and have no interest in getting into a "yes you're scum/no I'm not" argument with him because I don't want to convince him - regardless of his alignment, I waste my time by doing that.

Have you ever played with Xayzeck before? Have you done meta research on him? I've played with town-Xayzeck a few times now and I can see a lot of differences. Firstly, town Xayzeck

looks

town. There hasn't been one game I've played where anyone has actually scumread him. His motivations are very clearly pro-town, he's scumhunting, and so forth. Here? Nobody can say they have a strong townread on Xayzeck. A lot of people just don't have a read on him. That's not one bit like the town Xayzeck I know. Secondly, the posting style. I don't know why he's going for the shitty minimalistic posting style - I've never seen him do it as Town. There's a lot of points in this game where you look at what he's posting and you can see he's trying so damn hard to look like he doesn't give a shit and is posting stream-of-consciousness. But he does. I know that he's doing it because I've done it myself as scum. It's not easy to do if you're inexperienced at playing scum.

do you like me?

wow i said hi to you
and you look for someone else?
that's horrendously rude

Whenever he's accused of doing anything, he has a few rote responses and none of them are any good.

My play isn't the problem; you are.
This is my town meta, not my scum meta.
I'm starting to develop a scumread on you.

A lot of his statements ring so hollow when you actually compare them to his play. For instance, he tells us in #480 self-meta isn't worth much; yet he's using it as a way of defending himself in #303, so he clearly feels it is. Another time, he told me he wanted to interact with me because he was conflicted about his read on me - but he had voted me a few posts back with the reasoning: "You know what? Fuck you, TSO, Vote: TSO". He kinda reminds me of Syryana in Open 526, (though I know that's ancient for you), because he's not actually refuting any points, it's just deflection, deflection, deflection. And Syryana was scum that game.

The -only- mitigating factor which is making me even comprehend that he could somehow be Town is that strong players who I'm townreading at present (mastin, Antihero) don't feel he's scum, and historically when I tunnel on someone and strong players think I'm wrong, I usually am, a la Red Wine. But I'm not taking that from you, Nacho, because while you're very strong, you're not a townread at present.

You're calling me scum, though, and you're the only one in the game doing it apart from Xayzeck, who is doing it solely because I'm attacking him. If you want to call me scum, you're going to have to back it up. When I came into this game, Necro was high on votes and Xayzeck wasn't. You'll need to provide motivation for me taking the harder option there, etc. etc. etc. Which you don't have. So what worries me about this push is it feels like if I back off Xayzeck, I'll stop being a scumread to you. That doesn't interest me. I don't know if you're scum or town yet, but whatever you are, voting me because of "loltunneling + yelling" isn't going to suffice. It's time to back up your stance with actions.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

okay TSO, after a read through my initial gut response may have been faulty... there are some posts in his ISO that just leave me uneasy at this point
so

vote Xay...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Sorry, Jordan, I do not see Aegor as possibly scum regarding anything he posted. It is mostly null. I don't see a case there right now.

[Bulbazak]

Thor665 replaces Natirasha. Welcome his beard.

[Bulbazak]

Field Polarity:

Neutral

Vote Count

Shiny Hydreigon (0):
Doublade (0):
Saki (0):
ZZZX (0):
PeregrineV (0):
Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Zdenek (0):
TiphaineDeath (0):
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (0):
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
Nachomamma8 (0):
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Thor665 (0):
Talah (2): Shiny Hydreigon, Zdenek
Xayzeck (6): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, MafiaSSK, Sharpest-knife-on-tree
The Necromancers (2): Thor665, Aegor
Fear (0):
Jordan_Downey (1): Spring Starflower,
Aegor (3): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers
RachMarie (0):

Not Voting (2): RachMarie, Fear

It is day 1. With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch. Day ends on Sunday, June 15 at 2:00am EST. Countdown: (expired on 2014-06-15 02:00:00).

TiphaineDeath and Talah are V/LA until Monday, June 9.
Fear is V/LA until Wednesday, June 11.

Looking for a replacement for PeregrineV.

[T S O]

hi Thor, Xayzeck is a good vote.

[Thor665]

Good to know.

Vote: Xayzeck

What else is happening?

[T S O]

talah wasn't included in a townbloc and has claimed an unnamed PR.

[TiphaineDeath]

Necro is pushing Aegor who is probably also scum over talah who he thinks is scum but probably isnt.

Nacho is Lurking his balls off.

SKOT is bussing Xayzeck.

There was a big necro derp wagon that got broken up that you should probably go read up on.

[T S O]

the above is all good. idk about skot bussing, but I can't rule it out either.

[The Necromancers]

Thor665 replaces Natirasha. Welcome his beard.

Oh, fuck me.

I can actually

read

Natirasha.

Now I'm stuck just assuming Thor drew scum for the rest of the game.
(He totally did.)

[T S O]

oh well, enough about how you can't read Thor, we won't mention it again. specifically, you won't mention it again. good? great!

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Necro is pushing Aegor who is probably also scum over talah who he thinks is scum but probably isnt.

Nacho is Lurking his balls off.

SKOT is bussing Xayzeck.

There was a big necro derp wagon that got broken up that you should probably go read up on.

ah, TD, you are at least consistent my friend. I wish you to be able to have a change of perspective when it comes to me, but alas who I am simply befuddles you and I cannot do anything more to convince you others.

[Doublade]

okay TSO, after a read through my initial gut response may have been faulty... there are some posts in his ISO that just leave me uneasy at this point
so

vote Xay...

bad touch ! bad touch