First off, with everyone claimed, I'm going to reread my qt with Shadoweh and relay everything of value.
Ahhh, apparently I'd forgotten a little, but my early NS vote was also what I thought at the time was the best vote to mine on Shadoweh's wagon, Shadoweh being someone I already had a strong mostly unstated Townread on because of qt behavior etc. - the wagon such as it was was {ChannelDelibird, chamber, Cerulean, Sixty, Nobody Special} and I'd really love to reread it again because part of me thinks it's more likely that one scum took a position on it than none (to the smart alecks expressing wariness about all my gamestate moaning early in the game, add Shadoweh to the list of people expressing basically the same issue at the time - and yes, I can go in and do a paraphrasing if you like).
Oh, by the by, Shadoweh noted fairly early that UT was burying himself in a select orifice of Reck's and found it scummy
Amusingly and amazingly enough, the two times Shdaoweh encouraged me to use my thread subtitle power involved a suggestion of using it to call UT conf scum (this was around the start of Day 2 when Shadoweh and I were in agreement on UT's scumminess and coordinated in voting him . . . and then later once a suggestion to call UT conf or almost conf Town (there was a reason I didn't do that). Late Day 2 Shadoweh told me she had a result on UT that implied he wasn't scum, said because of that she wouldn't vote him ever and encouraged me to behave likewise, which I did without questioning further at that moment because I trusted her that far. In
Post #1805 I back off my strong UT push nominally on the basis of Cerulean's case for him being Town; in reality it was based on Shadoweh's claim of having such a result and I just wanted to avoid having to note or claim anything related to it at the moment despite having to basically 180 on UT (on Day 3 she did in fact apologize to me for putting me in a position where I needed to 'explain' why I didn't want to vote him, though at that time no one had actually asked me about it like that).
During the end of Day 2 - within the hour of deadline, I think - I was online with Shadoweh, discussing whether to use my power, Shsdoweh thinking Nero would be the lynch if I didn't and claiming she'd be happy to see either Nero or kanye hang (though at the time she was voting Nero, of course). If it looked like we'd be stuck with a no-lynch . . . I was waiting and watching but I was prepared to commend the Day into LLD's haiku-off. As it stood it became clear before deadline hit that kanye was getting lynched, he was my preference, there you are.
Day 3 when Shadoweh suggested I use the subtitle ability to tell the thread about her result, she explained her result to me. She said, and I paraphrase: Sometime Day 2 (she later clarified this ability was from a TH card) she copied UT's active ability(ies). Her power gave her a one-shot version of any active powers he had so long as he had any shots left to use, and from UT she obtained a one-shot Doc ability. She said that because it was his only ability and the game not multiball, she believed he was the Town's Doctor. She did not mention anything about a restriction, but it sounds like this was a jeep-flavor specific global restriction specific to UT and applicable to all his active abilities?
I said great, but I am not so super confident that this makes UT Town and now that I went from thinking UT is scum (and, trying to avoid confirmation bias, still susceptible to filtering his posts through the hypothesis of 'UT is scum') to thinking UT is confirmed Town because of Shadoweh's result (so not doing too much to evaluate how scummy his posting might be) to knowing his active ability is Doctor but - basically a frustrating position. Given that I didn't think the result indicated UT was confirmed Town, I discussed it with Shadoweh and didn't end up making that subtitle change.
That all said, she
was
in a qt with chamber, had been since the start of Day 2 (and I knew about it), and her thought process on this one was in collaboration with chamber. They felt that scum with Doctor as only active ability was effectively a goon in a power-heavy presumed 4:14 game, even granted the method of game construction. I thought it was completely plausible that scum had a practically-useless Doc. The more so as the game moved on - I think now we're seeing that in many respects the power level in this game is not particularly high.
Final reads from Shdoweh, from Night 4, again paraphrasing:
Zdenek, Cerulean, Nero Cain Town. She was conflicted about UT and FA. UT she just wanted to clear especially with his behavior towards Venmar, but his swings to TH (who hadn't flipped at that time, of course) seem to have frustrated her. She thought that FA's play regarding the Kats wagon and not voting Venmar when they were competing, while taking shots at Shadoweh wasn't nice; she thought it seemed like they might be trying to have their cake and eat it too - but she thought their reads were stellar and cited a time they said that scum were in {Shadoweh, Plum, Venmar, Katsuki, Nero Cain, NS, Kanye, UT, Reck, Tim Howard} - so the other 7 were 7/7 Town and this would leave 2/5 scum in {Plum, NS, UT, Reck, Tim Howard}. She asked if I felt this was reason enough not to fight FA. As things stand, I don't think I do (though not exclusively because of that).
Oh hai FA by the way:
It says that I'm cognizant of the fact that he's perceived as an easy target. I was frustrated with the way the game was being (as I've noted ad nauseum) and being too paralyzed by whether or not he'd be perceived as an easy target was something I recognized would not help me in my quest to deal with that productively.
In post 2810, Flipping Awesome wrote:This is really vague. I at least like that you made a direct accusation i.e. NS blending in but then use really hedgy and flowery language to describe NS's votes.
Yeah, because when I discuss something like opportunism as a scumtell I dig into the meat of the matter - what opportunity is a player seeing in a wagon/target/whatever, and why is that opportunity and taking advantage of that likely to be scum-motivated. Sometimes that's hard to pin down or express definitively but I do what I can. Just saying 'NS jumped on a wagon' is not something useful for me to note or express in and of itself. Taking advantage of, say, the Shadoweh wagon by jumping on when it was popular and letting it and his vote stagnate might indicate that it was a place to put his vote that wouldn't attract attention actively (by making a vote no one else would make) or passively (e.g. when someone stays 'Not Voting' for a long time Day 1, which NS didn't) but wasn't really pursuing as a means of scumhunting and pressuring.
It seemed sincere in a game where I often lacked a read on whether people were doing things like scumhunting and wagoning sincerely. I think I might have recognized what he later would elaborate on about his frustrations with the gamestate, because I was struggling with it too. In many respects the same thing holds true with chamber. Shdoweh also thought chamber seemed Town even that early in the game, which influenced my read there (because I was collaborating with her in the qt, found her Townish, and because her reasoning on the matter seemed fine). As early as April 13th, I told her in the thread that chamber was someone I just generally felt comfortable following a lead from and seeing where I could move from there, but that that held true pretty much independent of alignment that early in the game - and she told me she thought he sounded Town to her and completely understood his Venmar vote. On the 14th she also had him in her qt Townlist. She was frustrated when he voted her, and on the 17th it drove her to read his scum hydra ISO in the Touhou game (I'm not familiar with it), which made her even more convinced he was Town. All this impacted how I was reading him (and a lot of it is probably well lumped under 'other Townish signals').
In post 2810, Flipping Awesome wrote:What I hate about this post is that there is no conviction and no real scumhunting drive behind Plum's posting. It feels like too much surface level analysis that is meant to look good but doesn't feel as if Plum thought she actually caught scum that she was pushing.
I WAS FREAKING NOT CONFIDENT IN THE GAME AS A WHOLE AND WAS TRYING TO DEAL WITH THAT AS BEST I COULD. For me dealing did seem to involve acknowledging it frequently. The start of the game was very unusually frustrating in this regard. I was not confident that I 'caught the scum I was pushing' - I felt like I had a lead that I thought was worth pursuing in a game where I was confident about very little, and that I was going to push my lead despite nagging fears that this wasn't worth more confidence than much else I had in the game.
In post 2819, Flipping Awesome wrote:Most of her scumposts are long, quote-striped walls and feel less spontaneous than her shorter posts. This is true in all four of the scumgames I linked above.
1. Did you read POWERFUL WIZARDS?
2. Coming in with so many pages full Day 1, general differences in availability (each period of V/LA probably makes things more likely to go long and quote-stripey and affords less short-and-spontaneous stuff) and possibly stress patterns, and the gamestate stuff I know I keep harping on all probably contributed to post stuff. I generally think your focus on meta is not serving you well here, but well. So it goes. Like now. Huge wall. Lots of stuff to say, hasn't been much time available to me since I last posted especially because my laptop is still not available. Aaaaanyway, enough whining from me.
I need to reread UT. I'm really leaning voting SK now. I'm paranoid that I'm finding Reck sincere for bad reasons, but for now some of it does seem sincere. I'll hopefully be doing final agonizing soon enough. Am happy to use the deadline extension tomorrow if necessary or desirable.
