Mini 1626: Duck Tales Mafia (Game Over)

[Total Wreck]

Lulz

[Romitelli]

VOTE: kittycupcake

She's not even trying to look town.

Actually, I claim she's trying very hard to look town. That is, she's going out of her way to include these little snippets that scream "hey, I'm pro-town!", yet that don't feel genuine at all.

The posts that stand out to me as such:

Spoiler:

1.

You should be trying to help me get an accurate read on you. -Being intentionally obstructive is just... unproductive.

2.

Look, this is how this works: I see something weird, and I ask the person why. Then, you can either respond constructively, and help the town by sharing some insight into your thought process and alignment, or you can hurt the town by being difficult.

3.

But, do you think you could consider that you aren't the only person playing this game? -I'm trying to work out the puzzle as well, but you're effectively hiding some of the pieces from me. You may not actually care about being voted, but displaying that attitude is bad for my game experience and hinders my ability to solve the puzzle.

4.

And the rest was making sure scum hunting is a thing that's possible in this game. The second you allow people to just pick and choose where they feel like responding, things start to go downhill quickly.

5.

Yes, I have a bit of dislike for that type of playstyle; it's disruptive to my scum hunting. But, while I was a bit confrontational at first, if you don't think I worked my way back around to trying to reach an understanding with TW, then you are beyond where I can help you.

You see, during her whole exchange with TW, she isn't simply discussing why she thinks his playstyle is anti-town; in fact, she's going out of her way to emphasize it hurts

her

scumhunting. It feels forced, it reads as an empty lunge for towncred.

[Romitelli]

@Mod: can we get a VC please? Thanks.

[Bulbazak]

@Mastin: Remind me why Romi is scum again.

[Paschendale]

Simple, really. There are some players who in no way, shape, or form could ever be accused of exaggerating their content; you know what comes from them was natural. Then, there are other players, the majority of players, who

could

be seen, from certain angles, to have exaggerated their posting. Your name is in that list, as is mine. But of the names in the list, yours is at the bottom to the point where it'd almost be off the list. In short, your posting's so not exaggerated that it'd be almost-impossible to argue it was. (Almost, but not quite.) In other words, the point about you being scummy for it is wrong.

In this context, I think I just don't know what you mean by "exaggerated".

Like, I have doubts on basically every read of mine (yes, to some extent even on DOMO), except my read on you.
I rarely get this confident on a read, but in this case I just so happen to

know

it's right. Hard to explain.

Hard for you to explain, harder for the rest of us to believe you.

The start of this was tw comment about Martin.
He anwsers the main crux of kcc' issue, but why the snarky response is scummy is very unclear.
As things continue she looks to be picking a fight rather then trying to understand and it comes across as a dislike of his playstyle, which is not scummy at all.
The vote puts tw at, I think, l-2.
It just reads to me as a reason to join the wagon on tw after everything is said and done.

This isn't bad.

Fair enough.

Okay then.
UNVOTE: Total Wreck
VOTE: Romitelli

Because Rom, despite several posts, hasn't done a single thing that even starts to resemble scum hunting.

mastin

is

town, though.

I'm leaning towards agreeing with you here. Though, I'm not nearly as confident as you seem to be yet.

I don't like this at all. This and the interaction leading up to it look extremely contrived.

I don't see any reason to scumread Rom at this point, nor to townread Doubleslap. Actually, the way Doubleslap seems to be riding that read and keep their head down is a bit troubling. Total Wreck still seems very scummy to me, but there are plenty of players who are useless and obnoxious as town. The lack of anything but one-liners from Shiny has me a little worried, too. Vote stays for now, but I could definitely see votes on CupCake or Doubleslap.

PeEdit: Also Domo is towny, and the above post makes Rom look pretty towny, too. Mastin is a tossup until we're a bit farther into the game.

[Bulbazak]

Fair enough.

Okay then.
UNVOTE: Total Wreck
VOTE: Romitelli

Because Rom, despite several posts, hasn't done a single thing that even starts to resemble scum hunting.

mastin

is

town, though.

I'm leaning towards agreeing with you here. Though, I'm not nearly as confident as you seem to be yet.

I don't like this at all. This and the interaction leading up to it look extremely contrived.

What don't you like, and how is it contrived?

[Paschendale]

Cupcake was asking TW leading questions in order to illicit specific responses to justify the switch.

Objection! Leading the witness! It's a tactic so common and so duplicitous that it is prohibited in a courtroom.

[Total Wreck]

I just said fair enough, never said I'd actually do anything differently, either.

[DOMO]

Leaning Bulbazak scum.

He has much incentive to indict mastin because she is a big threat to scum..

This is tenuous. First of all it assumes mastin is town. Secondly, there's lots of people here who, when town, are a threat to scum. Third, why does it make bulb scum but not me?

[Shiny Hydreigon]

so this game had me apathetic because i dont know most of the playerlist, and those that i do know i cant read reliably.

that said, i did read a bit more carefully now and my reads look like that:

town: {mastin, Paschendale, farside, Total Wreck, DOMO}
nulltown: {Doubleslap, Romitelli, Pine}
null: {Phidragon}
nullscum: {Aronis, Bulbazak}
scum: {KittyCupCake}

R~

[ArcAngel9]

DrTJEckleburg replaces Phidragon

[Total Wreck]

so this game had me apathetic because i dont know most of the playerlist, and those that i do know i cant read reliably.

that said, i did read a bit more carefully now and my reads look like that:

town: {mastin, Paschendale, farside, Total Wreck, DOMO}
nulltown: {Doubleslap, Romitelli, Pine}
null: {Phidragon}
nullscum: {Aronis, Bulbazak}
scum: {KittyCupCake}

R~

This list looks convenient.

Care to explain you reads?

[ArcAngel9]

Vote Count 1.4

Shiny Hydreigon

-

DOMO

- Romitelli, Pine

KittyCupCake

-farside22, Aronis, Shiny Hydreigon

Total Wreck

- , Paschendale, Bulbazak, Doubleslap

farside22

-

Romitelli

- mastin2, KittyCupCake

Paschendale

-

mastin2

- DOMO

Pine

- Total Wreck

Not Voting

DrTJEckleburg

W

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7

f

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r

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n

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6

f

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-

l

y

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.

Day1 ends in (expired on 2014-12-05 19:40:00)

[Shiny Hydreigon]

not rly

R~

[Doubleslap]

Actually, the way Doubleslap seems to be riding that read and keep their head down is a bit troubling.

if you're trying to make a comment about our low activity, i haven't talked with my other head for a while. we're mostly just waiting things out until we regroup

on the subject of mastin, i've been seeing her do this a lot lately. those reads of hers are not concrete. so while she has an odd townread on us, i'm willing to accept it and see how she progresses with it. that's the interesting part

[DrTJEckleburg]

VOTE: KittyCupCake

I agree with Pasch's read on the exchange between Kitty and Total Wreck recently.

Something that really bothers me is Kitty's 79 taken in light of 114. 79 could have been stated clearly just as "I don't know what to think of that yet." Brevity and clarity often go hand-in-hand, and we know that Kitty edits her posts as she writes them from 114. If her only purpose in 79 was to say "I don't know what to think of that yet," then her revision was pretty unsuccessful. We know she tries to avoid "miscommunication," which suggests that all the unnecessary details were intentionally included. The only real purpose for including those details is to present oneself as a player still trying to get accustomed to the site, which provides a helpful excuse for current and future posts that may be called into question.

Also, on page nine, Kitty states that she won't move her vote off of Total Wreck until they provide a direct answer, but apparently "fair enough" is enough of an answer to prompt that vote switch?

I'm not feeling a lot of sincerity behind Kitty's scumhunting, and I'm seeing a lot of fluff designed to make herself appear more town-like. At first I thought she was just a new player but we know that she has enough mafia experience off-site to consider trying another venue, which speaks to a certain level of experience. Biggest scum-read for me so far.

[KittyCupCake]

But does it not alarm you that mastin is scumreading rom based entirely off his rvs vote on me?

Not at all. I've seen plenty of players who put a lot of value in RVS posts. -And some do it very successfully.

You're agreeing that I'm obvious scum based on my RVS posts?

I

wouldn't have voted you for that one post, but I agree with the read she holds based on it.

This is my first game out of newbie queue, and I'm still getting acquainted with its format and size.

Overwhelmed is not at all the feeling I'm getting from your posts.

You see, during her whole exchange with TW, she isn't simply discussing why she thinks his playstyle is anti-town; in fact, she's going out of her way to emphasize it hurts

her

scumhunting. It feels forced, it reads as an empty lunge for towncred.

No, it was an attempt to get TW to see that the game isn't all about them. -Me just calling their playstyle anti-town wasn't going to solve anything or have any chance of inspiring a change. So, I looked for the root cause of the issue, which was TW approaching the game in a way which cared only about them figuring things out and not really caring about what the other players thought. And then, I attempted to resolve the issue by sharing what affect his behavior was having on my experience, which hopefully will now encourage them to approach things just a little bit differently. It's called interpersonal skills. I can't do any of that without showing the effect his actions are having on me. Name calling was not a solution there.

And I find it very suspicious that you suddenly jump up and start doing things right after I call you out on it.

Cupcake was asking TW leading questions in order to illicit specific responses to justify the switch.

Please, quote one leading question. I can't wait to see this.

I just said fair enough, never said I'd actually do anything differently, either.

Well, then, I guess I misinterpreted the implication there. At the very least, I hope it's something you keep in mind.

79 could have been stated clearly just as "I don't know what to think of that yet." Brevity and clarity often go hand-in-hand, and we know that Kitty edits her posts as she writes them from 114. If her only purpose in 79 was to say "I don't know what to think of that yet," then her revision was pretty unsuccessful.

"I don't know what to think of that yet," wasn't an answer to that question (or at least not a good one). Brevity is not my objective, or something you should ever expect from me. On the contrary, I strive for completeness. I tend to dump as much of my thought process into the game as possible.

Also, on page nine, Kitty states that she won't move her vote off of Total Wreck until they provide a direct answer, but apparently "fair enough" is enough of an answer to prompt that vote switch?

I moved my vote because I got what I had wanted from the exchange (or, at least, I thought I had). First, I thought I had reached an understanding with TW (we'll see how that goes, I guess). And second, I gained some insight into his thought process and alignment (albeit, not in the way I originally intended). At that point, to continue harassing a player I now think is town to respond to a question I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, it just wasn't constructive anymore. And if anything, it would just irritate them and make them less likely to cooperate in the future (when a question would likely be more important).

[Paschendale]

And I don't like the above comments about TW, either. Not the "interpersonal skills" quip, not the "understanding", not the faux-buddying up to the people she's talking to. All the alarm bells keep ringing.

VOTE: KittyCupCake

[KittyCupCake]

I'm waiting for you to quote these "leading questions", btw.

You are not going to sling mud, then ignore that request and vote me.

[DrTJEckleburg]

I moved my vote because I got what I had wanted from the exchange (or, at least, I thought I had). First, I thought I had reached an understanding with TW (we'll see how that goes, I guess). And second, I gained some insight into his thought process and alignment (albeit, not in the way I originally intended). At that point, to continue harassing a player I now think is town to respond to a question I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, it just wasn't constructive anymore. And if anything, it would just irritate them and make them less likely to cooperate in the future (when a question would likely be more important).

Could you please elaborate further on what exactly changed between you saying you would keep your vote on TW and then moving your vote off of him? What was this insight/understanding?

[DOMO]

L-1

[KittyCupCake]

Could you please elaborate further on what exactly changed between you saying you would keep your vote on TW and then moving your vote off of him? What was this insight/understanding?

When TW said "fair enough," I took that to mean they understood my position and were willing to take that into account in the future. The only reason I wanted an answer to my question at that point was as proof that they were willing to work with me. But this was good enough for where we were.

TW has since said things that make me think I may have misinterpreted his "fair enough," and that maybe I pulled my vote too soon, but I'm certainly not moving my vote off of someone I think is scum and back onto someone I think is town. So, I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed that I got through to TW, if only a little.

[DOMO]

lol I counted Shiny Hydreigon as two people.

It's L-2

[Total Wreck]

L-1

Not by my count.

[KittyCupCake]

When is it customary to claim around here?