Open 587 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[Wisdom]

Vote Count 2.7

theslimer3 (4)

-

pisskop, Green Crayons, Morgan, Titus

[L-1]

Titus (1)

-

BBMolla

Herodotus (1)

-

Sup-Zero

BBMolla (1)

-

theslimer3

Green Crayons (1)

-

texcat

Not Voting:

Herodotus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2015-03-01 01:15:23).[/area]

[Sup-Zero]

I don't understand why slimer is L-1 aside from lurking.

[Titus]

I don't understand why slimer is L-1 aside from lurking.

Read my last posts and say that again.

If you don't follow, ask a question.

[Sup-Zero]

Idk. I'll need to talk it over with Xay next time I can talk to him.

I've been kinda lazy lately so I wouldn't be surprised if I overlooked a ton of stuff.

[Green Crayons]

I know I used the term "active lurking," but that's not really the idea I'm trying to get at with:

2. Her posting frequently/format resembles that of scum. She'll go inactive, come back with a massive quote/respond post, have a smattering of smaller posts, and then go inactive again for a few days. The inactive - sudden activity flurry - then inactive again allows her to not be in the center of thread consciousness. Her massive quote/respond posts make her look active, but most folks will probably only skim, and therefore she evades real scrutiny.

Clarification That I Made In Another Game: (<-- the links still work if you follow that)

I'm not saying her V/LA is fabricated. I'm saying that going absent and then coming back with a serious of catch up posts -- and this is her habitual play this game, not a one-time event -- is aligned with scum play.

Oldie Mafia 2. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was porochaz. He had a legitimate excuse for his V/LA (funeral and other bad IRL experiences), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 444, Post 596, Post 676.

Also, I just got finished with a game where this happened again. Mini 1609. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was massive. Once again, a legitimate reason (no weeked access), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 2434, 2497, and Post 3336.

Once again, it's not so much that someone has V/LA, and then decides to make catch up posts. It's the heavy emphasis of using catch up posts, as it allows a person to look like they are providing the town with a lot of activity, but it isn't really all that substantive and useful for the town.

Of course, being V/LA was the predicate for farside relying heavily on her catch up posts, but it's the catch up posts and not her V/LA that is the suspicious part of her play for purposes of that line of suspicion. And as I pointed out when Riddle wanted me to do the work for farside, farside could have jumped in and made a (what would have been a pretty convincing) meta defense: that she has been doing similar catch up posts in all of her games.

For the record, farside was scum in that game, too.

It's an easy crutch to use if you're scum, and that's why I think it is more likely to come from scum than town. And while I don't think it's a sure fire tell, for me it helps solidify the good aspects of the case I've seen Hero make against slimer.

[Sup-Zero]

Sure.

Just let me talk it over with Xay first since I'd rather not just do whatever while he isn't paying attention.

[Green Crayons]

Well, that was partly responding to you, but also clarifying because one of slimer's big points was "oooh maybe I'm just inactive because IRL guys JEEZE."

[Sup-Zero]

Excuses.

At any rate we'll have an answer either late tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest, whenever he gets on.

[texcat]

vettrock (4)

-

archaebob, Albert B. Rampage,

Sup-Zero, Teapot

Albert B. Rampage (4)

- droog, Zymf, Astinus,

vettrock

Not Voting: theslimer3,

TheCow,

Morgan

Before reading, I'm inclined not to lynch Sup-Zero or Teapot, now GC.

The problem here is that Teapot was pushing the ABR lynch, and then only momentarily switched over to Vettrock without a good explanation for the switch, and then switched back to ABR. It just looked too much like scum voting for the town cred, but switching back when it really mattered.

#189, Texcat should be lynched before Vettrock. Given Vettrock was not the dayvig, if Slimer flips scum, Texcat is almost certainly town. He also avoids giving direct comment on the ABR and Vettock wagons here.

So perhaps I should be hoping that Slimer is scum and throw my vote in, but I'm still thinking that Teapot/GC is a far better lynch. And it bothers me that GC seems to be pushing for a quick lynch on Slimer who was not on his original scum list. He's also deflecting blame already for the mislynch and lining up lynches for after the mislynch.

[BBmolla]

This is wrong. Slimer and Vettock had interactions, even if they weren't direct with each other.

Their interactions consisted of Vettrock always throwing him in as a possible lynch cause slimer is a lurker.

[BBmolla]

BBmolla. Hero. Sup. Seriously. 728.

I mean, I can't vote slimer any harder

[Green Crayons]

Then slimed is lynched and Wisdom missed your vote.

[Green Crayons]

lol @ anything in this game being "quick"

[Green Crayons]

^^^ seriously, slimed suspicions were voiced and slimed responded to them at least twice.

If that isn't a sufficiently vetted wagon - regardless of whether you ultimately agree with the wagon - then the sky is green, grass is blue, etc etc.

[BBmolla]

Oh what the fuck

Can I hammer?

[BBmolla]

Or do we want to let deadline run a bit more

[BBmolla]

Scum can you guys shoot Hero, that'd be great

[Herodotus]

1. Can you really say that's scummy at all? I don't normally say my opinion on anything for that matter. Just because I don't say something doesn't mean I have some ulterior motive of throwing the discussion off or trying to veer off it, so this speculation just seems pointless to me.
2. The deadline was coming up and I had already stated that I wouldn't want ABR lynched (which I was right about his non-gamble btw). Why on earth would I just vote on someone new when I wanted to keep ABR alive, which I've acknowledged as probably town.
3. Well I guess I didn't look hard enough for them to not see them, and unlike you all I don't vote someone for not answering a question (or being there to answer that question for that matter). In fact I'm pretty sparce with my votes if you haven't noticed.

1. I can say that scum have a

motive

to avoid talking about anyone. Notice how we're discussing what vettrock said about people.
2. For one thing, if Teapot was town and lynched, Albert would be dead now regardless. For another, the town can't get anywhere without voting and/or making cases against people who might be scum.
3. If you're scum, that might help your side. If you're town, it means there is less pressure on people and less information, and if you were to stay not voting, the scum would have more control over the lynch.

Also still @Slimer, did you miss my questions? I saw your answer about Sup, but didn't see anything about Tea, nka GreenCrayons.

Neut on Tea, except that DayVig. It's possible that he was the one behind that, but there's no proof for that.
I don't like GC though. He voted for Pissop for pretty much a feeling and something that seems off. He also voted me because... Well I'm inactive. And dressed it up to make it seem like it's just a scummy motive behind it. Also It's been noted before that I'm scummy because I'm inactive. Quite possibly a piggyback.

Help me understand why Teapot was more likely to make that daykill than anyone else.

[Herodotus]

if Slimer flips scum, Texcat is almost certainly town

Agreed.

#555 implies that ABR's shot is something to be feared and a voter changed because they did not fear ABR's shot anymore. This implies town ABR. Someone who thought ABR was scum wouldn't fear a vengeshot on day 1.

I don't follow what you're saying this this paragraph. But it seems relevant that slimer stated a town read on Albert.

Texcat login is a null tell. The vig shot depends just as much on mod availability as submissions.

There was a votecount just a few hours before, so I don't think the delay between the request and the execution was very long. Though there are a lot of players whose online status was hidden, or who were logged in around that time, or who posted in the thread and therefore were logged in.

Titus's first few posts look slightly townish overall.

The problem here is that Teapot was pushing the ABR lynch, and then only momentarily switched over to Vettrock without a good explanation for the switch, and then switched back to ABR. It just looked too much like scum voting for the town cred, but switching back when it really mattered.

Context matters. Teapot was not quick to jump off of vettrock. They were on vett for two days and were I think the last player off the vettrock wagon.
Why aren't you making the same accusation toward Morgan or Sup-zero?

I mean, I can't vote slimer any harder

[Titus]

@Texcat, Can you elaborate more on a Teapot/GC team?

[Titus]

@Hero, I think when I played this setup a couple years ago I was the scum dayvig and asked the mod to show the kills when I was not on...so...

[texcat]

Context matters. Teapot was not quick to jump off of vettrock. They were on vett for two days and were I think the last player off the vettrock wagon.
Why aren't you making the same accusation toward Morgan or Sup-zero?

They had better explanations for their jumps. Teapot's jump onto Vett never made much sense to me. And Teapot was away for a couple of days, but hopped off the Vett wagon pretty soon after her return.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Vettrock
Morgan is town, unless he's scum with ABR and is panicking after a bus. I won't consider that right now though.
The ABR wagon went way too fast.

(I'm going away for a few days.)

You wanted to pressure!wagon ABR, and now suddenly the wagon is "too fast"? Your wagon hopping is what's too fast.

Someone remind me why we're not lynching this.

We still can.

Agreed.

I still don't know why Teapot wanted to vote ABR in the first place. He claimed that his play "wasn't town" but never bothered to follow up on that or explain it, either.

@Titus, I'm not sure what you're asking. And did you mean the Teapot/GC

slot

?
Morgan on Teapot
I do not like GC's push on Pisskop which was mostly based on his read of Droog. And which I disagree with. I had Droog firmly on the town side. But he seems more interested in lynching anyone.

Spoiler:

slimer: only problem I see is what could be considered active lurking (maybe due to real life issues, so not really alignment indicative), with using a bunch of catchup posts that, uncharitably, could be said are being used to look more active than she actually is. But maybe that's just because I have only skimmed the most recent pages and so haven't really delved into her posts.

That said, in ISOing vett I don't see anything he says about slimer that makes me think "yeah, buddies."

Also, I want to see slimer's flip because pisskop, holy crap.

If slimer flips scum, pisskop is likely town.

If pisskop is town, texcat is more likely to be scum.

Lynch slimer, let's see if this logic chain has teeth to it.

[Green Crayons]

Casually forgotten:

I agree that Pisskop's voting record has a lot to be desired, but I don't think it's actually as bad as Teapot's.

[Herodotus]

@texcat: But all those unvotes meant that Teapot was the only person voting vett. And being v/la doesn't negate the time with the vote on; vett could have been lynched during that time.

But he seems more interested in lynching anyone.

True. I don't know what to think of that.

[Green Crayons]

Hero, don't believe lies.

Especially lies backed up by cherry-picked quotes.