Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

"Let's hear it", said Humpty Dumpty. "I can explain all the poems that ever were invented--and a good many that haven't been invented just yet."

Votecount 1.15

BRantz [L-3] - Valkyrie Mollie, hi im Yakko, Elbirn, T S O

TierShift [L-4] - Titus, AxleGreaser, BRantz
Valkyrie Mollie [L-4] - farside22, TierShift
Belisarius [L-6] - Seraphim
hi im Yakko [L-6] - Aeronaut
Aeronaut [L-6] - Belisarius
Seraphim [L-6] - Witness Protection

Not Voting [0] -

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-03-11 20:00:00).

Elbirn, Axle, and Tier are V/LA.
Flubbernugget replaces Aeronaut, deadline has been modified.

[Titus]

Ok. I will rephrase.

TSO, scumreading Brantz for being concerned about fixed townreads so early isn't bad. I just think it's wrong. Superfixed townreads can be very confident town or scum. Mollie falls into the latter and even she moves from them.

TLDR Brantz posting is fine but I see why people think otherwise.

[Witness Protection]

Tiershift - Lurking, I haven't seen him lurk before, that I remember. Possibly scum. I've seen scum take this approach, and I doubt it's an uncommon strategy.

I've played with you?

This alt account is a super secret account!

Amazingly, the first game I came across was "Walrus and the Carpenter". You replaced in late, then got NKed. I guess I should play more micros.

What is your strategy this time, since it's established you're actively lurking. You once said in a game "Looking at past vengefuls, town is often very stupid/acting scummy, while scum is lurking and profiting." Do you feel this way for vengefuls only, and has your view changed, and if so how?

I think I've read a lot more games that have you in them (I once thought I could find secret scum tells if I read enough games) than played with you. Weren't you in "Reign of Flames"? I'm too lazy to look.

That vote is justice and all that but why vote seraphim if you think it's too late to start a wagon on him?

Why? Time to deadline. I still think it'd net scum. I've asked if anyone Town reads the slot, and I'm sure I've outlined wjy I think it's a good shot at hitting scum. If I can't get support, I'll heave a sigh, and vote BRantz.

pedit @ Titus I'm sorry, could you re-rephrase that? I feel like you're using double talk. "can be very confident town or scum" and "Mollie falls into the latter and even she moves from them." sounds like "anything can happen".

I do agree that I think BRantz has less a chance of flipping scum now than when Day 1 was first getting going. Or less chance of being scum than Seraphim. I just read a Micro where TSO tried a similar ploy to Seraphim's, and it worked all the way to MYLO where he was lynched for the Town win. In "Walrus and the Carpenter" DP tried it, and was hung Day 1 as scum.

Seraphim has the best chance of hitting scum

IMO

[Titus]

WP, Please pick a major deadline. You asking me to rephrase for a third time feels like reaching for towncred since I am widely misunderstood.

Brantz was worried about VM having superfixed reads so early.
TSO scumreads Brantz for his concern.
Superfixed reads means very confident town or scum.
Brantz picked VM scum. TSO picked VM town.


I am taking VM town but understanding that superfixed reads can be used to protect a weaker buddy.

[Witness Protection]

@ Titus That was a lot easier to understand, just saying.

[Witness Protection]

@ Titus Your opinion of Seraphim?

[Titus]

What are your doubts on my slot and when did they start btw?

Also I am not going for a lurker lynch. Who do you think is scummier, Brantz or Tier?

[Valkyrie Mollie]

Can you or mollie show me instances where it's happened before?

We (at least I) never have. That's why we (at least I) believed it's legit.

Ok. I will rephrase.

TSO, scumreading Brantz for being concerned about fixed townreads so early isn't bad. I just think it's wrong. Superfixed townreads can be very confident town or scum. Mollie falls into the latter and even she moves from them.

TLDR Brantz posting is fine but I see why people think otherwise.

Just to let you know, those superfixed townreads were posted by me, not mollie.

[Titus]

Blaaahhh...Why is there a trend of having hydras with player names in them? It makes people think I am talking about only one head when who posted it is irrelevant.

[Witness Protection]

@ Titus Tier right now, and I never said you were scummy. I just wanted clarification. Lurker wagons do work out good sometimes too.

@ VM My opinion It's not uncommon for "I'm not voting so and so's" and I see it as a good thing. I think it'd be harder (but not impossible) for scum to keep up a façade of strong Town reads. If they get flipped, and they're scum, you can get clues from how they treat their "never vote" players. If they've flipped scum, they've left clues behind. We just need to sort misdirection, distancing, and buddying. Sounds easy, huh?

*Disclaimer* This opinion is the author's and has not been fact checked, and is not a representation of how Mafiascum feels in general.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Brantz
wagon.

anything important I should know?

[Titus]

@Witness Protection, You did say you had doubts on me. I am asking you again, what caused those?

[Witness Protection]

@ Titus You being so quiet overall, but it's hard to rebut silence. I've got better leads to work on while letting you post. Remember you've fooled me into supporting you (as scum) before. I'd worry more if I didn't have suspicions of you.

[farside22]

VOTE: Brantz
wagon.

anything important I should know?

You replace 2 players that did nothing.
Please give reads if you are town.

[TierShift]

titus 332 and 347, response, please

Wp if you haven't played with me, how can you say my lurking behaviour is different from my usual MO?

I did not replace in late durng walrus and the carpenter. Your meta is horrible.

What else do you have on me?

[TierShift]

Titus why the freaking fuck would I do the wagon lurk? I kick ass as scum.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Brantz
wagon.

anything important I should know?

You replace 2 players that did nothing.
Please give reads if you are town.

You're null.

I'm assuming wp/titus is tvt by word count and the lack of votes on them.

Has axl been viged yet?

[TierShift]

Has axl been viged yet?

I approve!

What's your read on me?

[AxleGreaser]

Titus why the freaking fuck would I do the wagon lurk? I kick ass as scum.

and curl up in ball and whimper as town?

[AxleGreaser]

@Tier

Despite the previous provocative post... At this time do NOT answer this question. It is (until VM answers) a question for VM.

@VM

we think tier is town.

Ok so if you think Tier is town, then please convince me to vote your preferred wagon...
by explaining this part of your town read.

A thing I like to have to go along with my read is story i can tell my self where the players actions are consistent, I can make up bits but there must be at least one plausible story to go with the alignment i am
reading. If there are no plausible stories then that is inconsistent with the read.

In Tiers case my problem is "Why the

wagon Lurk

" (Which take to be why Lurk when earlier the lead wagon is on Tier, and the game is stalled on Tiers wagon. Choosing not play at that time is different to just lurking/not playing that others have done.)

At that point Tier chose to do other things other than play in this game.

The (A possible) scum story is that: If the alternate wagon(brantz) was not on scum, but the alternate scum were potentially vulnerable. Then stalling the day out for a bit, then towning it up is way more likely to wind up with the Lynch merely flipping onto Brantz rather than finding, time to run him up notice it didn't feel right and find another... Thus possible story exists (yes there is some preflip in it, but if there are no stories (for any possible flips) then it would be problem. There are stories so while not evidnce it is true (preflip is bad) Its not evidence its false.

There exists the possibility of at least one strategically good reason to stall the days play.

I don't find a towny story for Tier not playing while he was lead wagon, and effectively had captive audience of people voting him to interact with, but chose not to. Why does towny (who can play) just choose not to?
Explain why

wagon Lurk

is not giving you pause for thought.

I dont find at least one strategically good reason to stall the days play.

Do you have towny story for Tier. or you just claim to think hes town but dont know why?

[Flubbernugget]

Has axl been viged yet?

I approve!

What's your read on me?

All I see from you on this page is some self meta. hmmm

[Flubbernugget]

Oh and I guess you buddied me so there's that

[Elbirn]

V/LA ends. Lets get a lynch through plz. Thinking about the game over my vacay, I'm less optimistic about BRantz flipping scum. I've been stalking (reading) a game that he just happened to be in, and he flipped town. His play there reminds me of his play here. It's not much, but it's not nothing. Mostly my gut says BRantz isn't scum, whilst my head says he's doing scummy stuff so he is scum. So far in my time on this site, my head has never been right.

I see a lot of people sitting around twiddling their thumbs going "Guh I'd lynch Seraph, he's super scum, but good golly gosh it's so close to deadline". K so vote Seraph then. We can compromise on Seraph instead of letting him lurkfuck his way out of playing this game. Literally no one has contributed less. It has been 2 weeks. 14 days. He has 7 posts. If you'll read his ISO, you will see they are as follows.

-1 vote on WP for "talking too much", and 1 follow up post promising that he will ignore him and advises that we all do the same, which makes zero sense if we are trying to work together, but makes a lot of sense for a scum trying to divide us
-1 vote for Belisarius for quite literally zero reason. This is never explained beyond "gut" when I prompt him later.
-3 promises to contribute/post more in the future

That's it.
Like it's not just the number of posts. When there is a post there is zero substance. No content. It is shallow. It is nothing. I am not going to play with him. I don't care what faction he is, he is dragging this game down. Seraphim needs to replace out or be killed, because if he's town scum won't kill him and he'll be lynchbait the whole game, and if he's scum, well, self explanatory.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Seraphim

[Elbirn]

To witness, why do you say nothing but bad things about tso and then end with "you're not a townread but there's common ground"? Your thought process is nonsense.

It all comes back to being wrong enough times to know that Today's scum read might be Tomorrow's Town read. Just because someone's not a firm Town read doesn't mean you want to burn the bridge this early. We might need to work together later. He can show me why he thinks what he did isn't scummy, and I'll adjust my read accordingly.

Should I throw away a BRantz scum read because I don't like a lot about T S O's catch up? In the scheme of things he doesn't appear an option for a lynch Today anyway. I think it's pretty clear the slots I'm willing to lynch.

What are your feelings about T S O's posts? Can you see where my skepticism (with his catch up)comes from? Since our actions appear nonsense to you, what bothers you the most? Do you see a net gain for scum doing it?

K, so here's the thing. You said nothing about TSO that would indicate a similar viewpoint, opinion, or any sort of agreement. In fact, you did nothing but disagree. I can reread to make sure I'm not imagining that, but I'm pretty certain that nothing you have said = "common ground" with TSO. You said he's wrong, but you still somehow made the conclusion that he might be town, which is all fine and well, town can disagree. But I don't see where your weak-townread comes from, nor do I see what it is you're agreeing on. This is why your thought process is nonsense to me. Can you explain why he's town, or show me the common ground plz?

And to answer your questions

1. There were parts I thought were...Okay. And then parts I just didn't like. I don't get his grief with Beli or you. His logic on me doesn't make sense to me either. Sooo to transition into question numberrrrr

2. I totally get your skepticism with his catchup. What I don't get is why you're skeptical and then you toss an implied weaktownread to him. Doesn't sync to me.

3-4. These are bullshit questions imo. What bothers me the most? Idk, between your cog-dis and his crappily vague suspicion of me it's hard to pick. Does it matter which bothers me the most? It only seems to matter that they both bother me. Is that question supposed to prod me into only picking one thing to take issue with or what? What is the point of it?

Do I see a net gain for scum doing what you two did? Does it matter if there's a gain? Does no gain = not alignment indicative? Either way, I can't see a gain from you having an odd thought process, while I can see a gain for scum tossing suspicion at someone instead of giving an actual read.

[quote="In

To TSO. you said nothing but good things about me, then threw it out the windown with "elbirn trys Too hard to be town"? Literally what? If you read any of my games you'd see I play this way every game. It's a side effect of me having an Internet addiction and too much free time. but you don't say it based on my own playstyle, you compare it to yourself, which is just invalid and hokey.

I think I said I liked one of your posts. This is not the same as praising you repeatedly.

I am saying the playstyle you use is easy to townread, from experience, as either alignment, and am encouraging caution towards carelessly doing that.

I didn't say you praised me repeatedly. But fine, the way my post is worded it implies multiple posts. But let's not argue semantics, you are saying essentially that you see me as acting in a pro-town manner, and you are saying that that could be scummy because of something YOU did. You are applying your personal meta to me, and disregarding my own. This is bullshit. And now in this latest post you are cautioning me to not be easily townread. What?

.

Yeah, this posts makes me feel openly paranoid of WP-scum.

At that moment in the game, I was openly paranoid of my Town reads. I'd

almost

guarantee some, if not all of the scums were taking a wait and see approach at the time.

And so, you tried to foster paranoia in the town instead. That's very pro-town play.

Have you not done the same thing with your pseudo read on me?
Do you think that cog-dis is a scumtell?

[Elbirn]

Has axl been viged yet?

Why would he be? I think he's town.
Why do you want Axl to be vigged?