Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[Antihero]

Saltpeter

Potassium nitrate is a chemical compound with the chemical formula KNO3. It is an ionic salt of potassium ions K⁺ and nitrate ions NO₃⁻. It occurs as a mineral niter and is a natural solid source of nitrogen. Potassium nitrate is one of several nitrogen-containing compounds collectively referred to as saltpeter or saltpetre. Major uses of potassium nitrate are in fertilizers, tree stump removal, rocket propellants and fireworks. It is one of the major constituents of gunpowder (blackpowder) and has been used since the Middle Ages as a food preservative.

Potassium nitrate has an orthorhombic crystal structure at room temperature, which transforms to a trigonal system at 129 °C.

Potassium nitrate is moderately soluble in water, but its solubility increases with temperature. The aqueous solution is almost neutral, exhibiting pH 6.2 at 14 °C for a 10% solution of commercial powder. It is not very hygroscopic, absorbing about 0.03% water in 80% relative humidity over 50 days. It is insoluble in alcohol and is not poisonous; it can react explosively with reducing agents, but it is not explosive on its own.

Vote Count 2.2

Cerberus v666 - 1 (Ankamius)
hiplop - 5 (Tere, vezokpiraka, Sonic Boom, ZZZX, Flubbernugget)
Lying Cat - 1 (Shakira Confirmed)
Sonic Boom - 3 (hiplop, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar)

Not Voting: Cerberus v666, ika, Kari, Lying Cat, Mac, Wickedestjr

9 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2015-07-07 23:21:41)

[Shakira Confirmed]

ank is a high priority cop target too.

VOTE: sonic

not as pleased with this vote right now (i am beginning to have second thoughts) but i do think it's a much better option than hiplop, and rather than vote tere i'll consult with flumy later first

[vezokpiraka]

Saltpeter

Potassium nitrate has an orthorhombic crystal structure at room temperature, which transforms to a trigonal system at 129 °C.

Potassium nitrate is moderately soluble in water, but its solubility increases with temperature. The aqueous solution is almost neutral, exhibiting pH 6.2 at 14 °C for a 10% solution of commercial powder. It is not very hygroscopic, absorbing about 0.03% water in 80% relative humidity over 50 days. It is insoluble in alcohol and is not poisonous; it can react explosively with reducing agents, but it is not explosive on its own.

Vote Count 2.2

Cerberus v666 - 1 (Ankamius)
hiplop - 5 (Tere, vezokpiraka, Sonic Boom, ZZZX, Flubbernugget)
Lying Cat - 1 (Shakira Confirmed)
Sonic Boom - 3 (hiplop, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar)

Not Voting: Cerberus v666, ika, Kari, Lying Cat, Mac, Wickedestjr

9 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2015-07-07 23:21:41)

Who takes this measurements? Who cares about how hygroscopic is the substance at 80% relative humidity for 50 days? What kind of unit of measurement is that?

[ZZZX]

Who takes this measurements? Who cares about how hygroscopic is the substance at 80% relative humidity for 50 days? What kind of unit of measurement is that?

Cant be too sure but I think it helps to know how absorbent something is for long-term tests accuracy, the unit however is something I have no clue why,

[Antihero]

lol, i did kind of bury the lead didn't i?

the reason saltpeter is exciting is that it's a component of gunpowder

BUT SINCE YOU ASKED

"hydroscopic" refers to how much water a compound attracts. if something is "hydroscopic" it really readily pulls water out of the air. in this case, they were saying it says really dry in high humidity. that's something you want in a gunpowder, yes?

Spoiler:

[vezokpiraka]

lol, i did kind of bury the lead didn't i?

the reason saltpeter is exciting is that it's a component of gunpowder

BUT SINCE YOU ASKED

"hydroscopic" refers to how much water a compound attracts. if something is "hydroscopic" it really readily pulls water out of the air. in this case, they were saying it says really dry in high humidity. that's something you want in a gunpowder, yes?

Spoiler:

I know what saltpeter is used for. I'm interested in guns and now about gunpowder.

I also know what hygroscopic means. I was just wondering why would anyone use a unit of measurement like that.

[vezokpiraka]

And fuck my spellcheck. For some reason it doesn't think hygroscpy is a real word. It's hard to translate scientific terms when your spellcheck works against you.

[Tere]

I am weirded out by Marquis scumreading me. He should know better

But willing to think it's town paranoia given the check for the mo.

[Lying Cat]

ank is a high priority cop target too.

VOTE: sonic

not as pleased with this vote right now (i am beginning to have second thoughts) but i do think it's a much better option than hiplop, and rather than vote tere i'll consult with flumy later first

You don't have to vote between the two. I personally think SB might be scum, but I'm more than willing to let the cop sort them out. I'm also less convinced than I was yesterday of hiplop's townyness. I've got a slight meta read, but the 'his wagon was taking off despite pushes elsewhere' bit really doesn't matter as much based on the Bins flip.

Sthar8 says he's gonna look into wicked and jaqen based solely on wagon positioning, and I honestly don't have a read on wicked. That's particularly interesting to me considering last game I was convinced he was scum all game long and he was town.

Also worth noting as people who I no longer trust my read on or need to get a read in the first place: Tere, vezok, kari, ika, flubber, cerb, ank, wicked. And to a lesser extent Jaqen.

At one point I had townreads on tere and ank, so I'll try to remember why there. Anyone else in there I could be persuaded to vote.

For now though:

VOTE: wickedestjr

Why am I not scumreading you?

LC: if the scum follow our investigate chain from the start, that is, they kill Shakira tonight, then sonic tomorrow, then whoever gets the investigate tonight the day after, there is no "chain" to resolve. It does give town the utility of controlling where the kill is directed to some extent, but since the cop inventor doesn't know who the other inventors are, there's only a marginal increase in the likelihood of scum hitting a vt rather than PR. It also largely removes the use of the commuter from the game, reducing it to protection from nonkilling or roleblocking abilities since the commuter can't be given to the known target of town investigation lest that ruin the plan, and commuting prevents the use of their other abilities.

So, yes, not "game breaking" but there *is* definite utility to the plan, so in the absence of risks it should be used. Unfortunately, there are risks.

Scumq

1) Redirection. I don't know how these would interact, but knowledge of where this is targeted gives scum the opportunity to frame one person while getting a free extra nk.
2) if scum controlled, an end game can be sculpted where scum set up an investigate on themselves at a moment that will give them a majority the next day.

1) is a real problem imo. 2) just requires that we be cautious with this in the late game.

Weak cop scum utility: as above. Also, the simple fact that everyone KNOWS the weak cop inventor must be town, gives it utility for scum in building town cred. Does it help more than it hurts? That depends on how it's utilized. It's not a strong scum power. But its also not a useless one.

Ugh I need to get ready for work. I'll address other stuff later, but just FYI LC, it's my experience that your first comment, "good posting, not town posting" seems to accurately describe the impression I always give. I'd be shocked if someone actually thought my posts were super town at this point in the game.

1 is only a problem if scum have a busdriver. The odds scum have a busdriver are exceedingly low, both as a result of knowing Anti and looking at the current power level of the town. If we have something else significantly powerful, then a busdriver is possible. But the chance to give false guilties and false innocents with a weak role in play is far more powerful than a cop and a doc. And anti knows this, considering he was dead N1 in Rick and Morty mafia that just finished where I used a weak role to skip day 2 and fuck all of the results for the rest of the game. I expect a roleblocker (Anti loves roleblockers) and a rolecop (to help find the inventors).

2 is wrong. Anti isn't the kind of mod who gives scum a power just because it'll appear town later. It doesn't actually function as a scum vig (which is a wholly unbalanced roll anyway) because they're trading themselves for a member of town, which still benefits town. The weak cop inventor is town. Period.

[Flubbernugget]

If you're voting sonic boom you need to explain why lc's weak cop idea is shit

[vezokpiraka]

@LC: Did you stop trusting your read on me or did you just not get a read on me?

[Lying Cat]

Never had one. I'm not sure what it is, but I can't remember ever interacting with you in a game, let alone this one. Are you one of the Silence?

[Cerberus v666]

ank is a high priority cop target too.

VOTE: sonic

not as pleased with this vote right now (i am beginning to have second thoughts) but i do think it's a much better option than hiplop, and rather than vote tere i'll consult with flumy later first

You don't have to vote between the two. I personally think SB might be scum, but I'm more than willing to let the cop sort them out. I'm also less convinced than I was yesterday of hiplop's townyness. I've got a slight meta read, but the 'his wagon was taking off despite pushes elsewhere' bit really doesn't matter as much based on the Bins flip.

Sthar8 says he's gonna look into wicked and jaqen based solely on wagon positioning, and I honestly don't have a read on wicked. That's particularly interesting to me considering last game I was convinced he was scum all game long and he was town.

Also worth noting as people who I no longer trust my read on or need to get a read in the first place: Tere, vezok, kari, ika, flubber, cerb, ank, wicked. And to a lesser extent Jaqen.

At one point I had townreads on tere and ank, so I'll try to remember why there. Anyone else in there I could be persuaded to vote.

For now though:

VOTE: wickedestjr

Why am I not scumreading you?

LC: if the scum follow our investigate chain from the start, that is, they kill Shakira tonight, then sonic tomorrow, then whoever gets the investigate tonight the day after, there is no "chain" to resolve. It does give town the utility of controlling where the kill is directed to some extent, but since the cop inventor doesn't know who the other inventors are, there's only a marginal increase in the likelihood of scum hitting a vt rather than PR. It also largely removes the use of the commuter from the game, reducing it to protection from nonkilling or roleblocking abilities since the commuter can't be given to the known target of town investigation lest that ruin the plan, and commuting prevents the use of their other abilities.

So, yes, not "game breaking" but there *is* definite utility to the plan, so in the absence of risks it should be used. Unfortunately, there are risks.

Scumq

1) Redirection. I don't know how these would interact, but knowledge of where this is targeted gives scum the opportunity to frame one person while getting a free extra nk.
2) if scum controlled, an end game can be sculpted where scum set up an investigate on themselves at a moment that will give them a majority the next day.

1) is a real problem imo. 2) just requires that we be cautious with this in the late game.

Weak cop scum utility: as above. Also, the simple fact that everyone KNOWS the weak cop inventor must be town, gives it utility for scum in building town cred. Does it help more than it hurts? That depends on how it's utilized. It's not a strong scum power. But its also not a useless one.

Ugh I need to get ready for work. I'll address other stuff later, but just FYI LC, it's my experience that your first comment, "good posting, not town posting" seems to accurately describe the impression I always give. I'd be shocked if someone actually thought my posts were super town at this point in the game.

1 is only a problem if scum have a busdriver. The odds scum have a busdriver are exceedingly low, both as a result of knowing Anti and looking at the current power level of the town. If we have something else significantly powerful, then a busdriver is possible. But the chance to give false guilties and false innocents with a weak role in play is far more powerful than a cop and a doc. And anti knows this, considering he was dead N1 in Rick and Morty mafia that just finished where I used a weak role to skip day 2 and fuck all of the results for the rest of the game. I expect a roleblocker (Anti loves roleblockers) and a rolecop (to help find the inventors).

2 is wrong. Anti isn't the kind of mod who gives scum a power just because it'll appear town later. It doesn't actually function as a scum vig (which is a wholly unbalanced roll anyway) because they're trading themselves for a member of town, which still benefits town. The weak cop inventor is town. Period.

Any argument which begins "Anti would/wouldn't do this isn't one that's going to sway me because I don't know Anti, and even if I did I prefer to keep all possibilities in mind when possible. Alignment confirmation by role(when a role could theoretically be scum) is a trap that I'm not going to fall prey to.

I'll concede that the redirection is unlikely, but its still something to keep in mind. Anyways, yes, your plan seems to have more upside than potential risks, I like it.

LC, why didn't the commute inventor gift bins, since bins claimed a day power which wouldn't be affected by commuting, and hhad a decent chance of being the first nk? Can you think of town motivations?

[Cerberus v666]

ank is a high priority cop target too.

VOTE: sonic

not as pleased with this vote right now (i am beginning to have second thoughts) but i do think it's a much better option than hiplop, and rather than vote tere i'll consult with flumy later first

You don't have to vote between the two. I personally think SB might be scum, but I'm more than willing to let the cop sort them out. I'm also less convinced than I was yesterday of hiplop's townyness. I've got a slight meta read, but the 'his wagon was taking off despite pushes elsewhere' bit really doesn't matter as much based on the Bins flip.

Sthar8 says he's gonna look into wicked and jaqen based solely on wagon positioning, and I honestly don't have a read on wicked. That's particularly interesting to me considering last game I was convinced he was scum all game long and he was town.

Also worth noting as people who I no longer trust my read on or need to get a read in the first place: Tere, vezok, kari, ika, flubber, cerb, ank, wicked. And to a lesser extent Jaqen.

At one point I had townreads on tere and ank, so I'll try to remember why there. Anyone else in there I could be persuaded to vote.

For now though:

VOTE: wickedestjr

Why am I not scumreading you?

LC: if the scum follow our investigate chain from the start, that is, they kill Shakira tonight, then sonic tomorrow, then whoever gets the investigate tonight the day after, there is no "chain" to resolve. It does give town the utility of controlling where the kill is directed to some extent, but since the cop inventor doesn't know who the other inventors are, there's only a marginal increase in the likelihood of scum hitting a vt rather than PR. It also largely removes the use of the commuter from the game, reducing it to protection from nonkilling or roleblocking abilities since the commuter can't be given to the known target of town investigation lest that ruin the plan, and commuting prevents the use of their other abilities.

So, yes, not "game breaking" but there *is* definite utility to the plan, so in the absence of risks it should be used. Unfortunately, there are risks.

Scumq

1) Redirection. I don't know how these would interact, but knowledge of where this is targeted gives scum the opportunity to frame one person while getting a free extra nk.
2) if scum controlled, an end game can be sculpted where scum set up an investigate on themselves at a moment that will give them a majority the next day.

1) is a real problem imo. 2) just requires that we be cautious with this in the late game.

Weak cop scum utility: as above. Also, the simple fact that everyone KNOWS the weak cop inventor must be town, gives it utility for scum in building town cred. Does it help more than it hurts? That depends on how it's utilized. It's not a strong scum power. But its also not a useless one.

Ugh I need to get ready for work. I'll address other stuff later, but just FYI LC, it's my experience that your first comment, "good posting, not town posting" seems to accurately describe the impression I always give. I'd be shocked if someone actually thought my posts were super town at this point in the game.

1 is only a problem if scum have a busdriver. The odds scum have a busdriver are exceedingly low, both as a result of knowing Anti and looking at the current power level of the town. If we have something else significantly powerful, then a busdriver is possible. But the chance to give false guilties and false innocents with a weak role in play is far more powerful than a cop and a doc. And anti knows this, considering he was dead N1 in Rick and Morty mafia that just finished where I used a weak role to skip day 2 and fuck all of the results for the rest of the game. I expect a roleblocker (Anti loves roleblockers) and a rolecop (to help find the inventors).

2 is wrong. Anti isn't the kind of mod who gives scum a power just because it'll appear town later. It doesn't actually function as a scum vig (which is a wholly unbalanced roll anyway) because they're trading themselves for a member of town, which still benefits town. The weak cop inventor is town. Period.

Any argument which begins "Anti would/wouldn't do this isn't one that's going to sway me because I don't know Anti, and even if I did I prefer to keep all possibilities in mind when possible. Alignment confirmation by role(when a role could theoretically be scum) is a trap that I'm not going to fall prey to.

I'll concede that the redirection is unlikely, but its still something to keep in mind. Anyways, yes, your plan seems to have more upside than potential risks, I like it.

LC, why didn't the commute inventor gift bins, since bins claimed a day power which wouldn't be affected by commuting, and hhad a decent chance of being the first nk? Can you think of town motivations?

[Cerberus v666]

Ugh. Stupid phone. I suppose if you think bijs will get investigated its reasonable to give it to someone else,but if anyone were to be investigated it would have been. Hiplop.

[Lying Cat]

I think I know why, but it's anti-town to discuss today

-sthar

[Lying Cat]

I'd be willing to vote vezok too.

cerb is probtown, although he should get an avatar and trust in our proficiency. I have never yet been wrong about setup spec, and while it is theoretically possible that anti designed elements of this setup to fuck with my preconceptions, I believe that he cares more about balance than about dicking with me.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

if anyone were to be investigated it would have been. Hiplop.

[Cerberus v666]

if anyone were to be investigated it would have been. Hiplop.

?

Re:proficiency. It takes a lot before I'd trust someone else's proficiency as town, and I always assume intelligent play from scum. So, there's no offense intended when I question someone's reads or setup spec or other assumptions, or when I think they are being absurd for positing a scenario for scum that doesn't benefit them in a meaningful way.

[Sonic Boom]

I'd be willing to vote vezok too.

cerb is probtown, although he should get an avatar and trust in our proficiency. I have never yet been wrong about setup spec, and while it is theoretically possible that anti designed elements of this setup to fuck with my preconceptions, I believe that he cares more about balance than about dicking with me.

-sthar8

Nothing that creates an NAR problem. I just finished a game that Anti took over and he doesn't know NAR. So it would be highly suspect if he included redirectors or some such.

[Sonic Boom]

Spoiler: Cerb's First 10 posts in this game, not counting confirms

I think it would be valuable to town and useless to scum if we all claimed our compound/element. Is there a potential downside to doing so which I am missing?

That Antihero wouldn't be so reckless as to not give scum fakeclaims?

Not a downside. Neutral in that case, and if he didn't, helpful.

i'd also rather not chance there being a scumchemist who can somehow use the compounds to figure out roles or something iuno.

Downside. Seems very improbable, but sure.

How could such a scumchemist function? Balanced scum PR that would be aided by knowledge of town elements. Go!

not sure.
dont think its super worth going into.

there could also be some kind of pattern behind which compounds/elements are PRs and which are VTs.

let's not find out now kthnx.
join a wagon. theorycrafting is boring.

Bolding mine. MUCH stronger argument. Who should I vote for and why Gorkington?

Ike: I have not seen the first game. I suppose looking at the setup and mechanics there could be useful for this game.

Gorkington: So you say I should make a decision based on mastins meta, or the silly rvs of day 1? No thanks, it's a lot more informative to see exactly how fluffy and opportunistic other peoples cases are.

Seemed to be no town PRs in the previous game, just a mason pairing and inventors to hand out abilities. So mac being a smart ass is scummy now? Hmm.

So mac being a smart ass is scummy now? Hmm.

I cannot begin to count the many, many times that kind of response popped into my head as scum and I had to wean myself off of doing it, as opposed to the 1 or 2 times I've done it as town under a "fuck everything" attitude which shouldn't really be a part of the question right now.

But no, this isn't an "I'd only do it as scum so of course Mac is doing it as scum". It's simply just a response that's more scum-motivated than town-motivated.

VOTE: Shakira

Are you bussing?

What the fuck is this vote?

my hips told me too

and yeah, sure, page 4 i have decided to bus shakira

you got me

good job!

Initial response was offhand comment shaking it off, second response was a scum "just in case" damage control post that, while it tries to keep the tone light and sarcastic, its own existence shows scum instinctively taking vezok's post seriously to curb early suspicion out of necessity.

Is this where I claim Mason before we waste the next 20-50 pages blueballing my lynch?

No, because if it was, then I'd be calling you town before you claim, remain ignorant of your claim while I'm behind and continue to defend you against old attacks.

Is this where I discredit your townplay instead now?

So it's more likely Mac lacked your self restraint as scum, who should be watching every single thing they said, than that he(?) is town and speaking without concern for creating a "townie" persona?

I understand your reasons, I just think you're wrong and overthinking it. Attributing way more to the post than it warrants. Everyone hates being scumread for dumb reasons, only someone incompetent would press the issue for "damage control" because they, like you, can read the thread and see that sufficient damage control was done with the first dismissive post. The second "damage control" post is a terrible play for scum trying to hand wave the accusation away, and is more in line with town saying what's on their mind because they aren't worrying about trying to act like town.

We both see the same things, understand the same motivations, you just choose to believe Mac is bad at being scum, while I choose to believe he's town reacting honestly. Which is more likely?

TL;DR: the reasons scum has for making that post are so incredibly obvious that only obvtown or terrible scum would have made it.

With all that said...why such a terrible and flimsy case on what is basically just OMGUS?

It's barely an "obvious scum post" considering pretty much everyone else skipped over it or didn't bother to read into it just like we usually do for most seemingly-innocuous posts and exchanges.

Also, OMGUS doesn't exist unless you're exceptionally new to the game. If there's anything that's so

obviously

scum motivated that it's actually town, right now it'd most likely be you trying to shut down a Mac wagon using that buzzword and subpar "it could go either way but my way is the right one" WIFOM dismissals.

Well, yes, of course it doesn't exist because usually town has more reason than just that, or at least they try to rationalize it as more than just that, but that doesn't change the fact that the term simply means a vote made on someone who has voted for you. A vote which is typically ignored, as a result. Adding your case on top of it serves to draw attention to a standard, innocuous part of RVS, and I'm just wondering why.

i'm also curious why, when I basically just repeated what someone else had said the page before about OMGUS, you chose to respond to me, and not them. It's all very interesting.

Hmm. I suppose you are right about it being barely an obvious scum post, in that it's only an obvious play if you actually take another look at it...but all it takes is a moment of looking at it to see it, so, I'm going to maintain that it's definitely far from subtle or good.

Train on Shakira: Why? Any of you, why? It's currently at the point where its momentum practically guarantees that slots lynch if you all leave your votes there for any notable amount of time, so...why?

There's a certain tonal shift. In We Didn't PlayTest this, Cerb's open inquistive about more than the setup. IN this game, it's hard to get him to focus on reads, he's abstract all the fucking time. I'm not seeing the same inquistiveness, the same Cerb from We Didn't PlayTest this and it worries me a lot.

There's a time for spec and then there's a time for actually hunting.

You got reads for us yet Cerb?

[Sonic Boom]

Spoiler: Cerebus in We Didn't Playtest This - First Ten Posts

Hi. So, Never-melt-ice and Soren are both supportive of, to varying degrees, D1 claiming, full in the case of Soren and partial in the case of Never.

Never: How does sharing information involving some sort of pairing between players help town *more* than it helps scum? Beyond the obvious argument that scum already has knowledge of those pairings they are part of, so you're removing the advantage they gain from that bit of information.

Hypothetically, would it ever be the case that scum would be paired with scum? Likely? Unlikely?

Soren: D1 full claims? Because you want us to all lie so your lies don't stand out?

Vote: Soren

This is made with absolutely no knowledge of how any of you play, other than Drixx. Maybe Soren always pushes for D1 claims. I wouldn't know.

@Cerberus
What do you think of Drixx?

I think he's a gentleman and a scholar, and less wall of texty than he has been in the past. If you're asking for a read on him, I don't really have one yet. I wouldn't mind an early lynch on him though, just so if he is scum and they win, he can't claim to have had any part in their success. ^^ Gotta keep his ego in check.

you're a day cop who is in a neighborhood, or you're a day cop who can only check neighbors?

The second one. I only get a result if my target is a neighbor.

I have to submit the action during the day, then I get a result at night. I wouldn't normally ask for claims so early, but the mod won't tell me if my target is a neighbor or not when I submit. So I would rather know all my options now, instead of guessing blindly and then if wrong have to wait for the next day before I can even try again.

That is a reason to request said information that could benefit town. My issue is you asked for neighbors to name their partners. Why would they do that? From how you described your role, it should make no difference to you how the pairings go, but only the fact that someone is part of a pair. Wanting to know the exact pairings is scummy.

When do you get the result from your investigation?

@Ice
Fair enough, I have nothing against doing it the way Cerberus proposed and you amended, I don't have a neighbourhood.

Does the night phase need to start in order for you to get the result, i.e. would you benefit from BBmolla's claimed ability to skip a night phase?

I didn't propose anything. Words in my mouth...hmm. Innocent mistake or subtle manipulation? Good question about the interaction of the claimed abilities.

I think we should claim whether we have neighbours or not. The benifit to the town outweighs the potential drawbacks (that is, if Ice isn't lying)

Ice could also have any sort of scum power and have it be dependent upon the target being in a neighborhood, but that might be a long shot. Scum, if present in neighborhoods, would know the other members of their neighborhood aren't scum(barring multiple mafia factions). The only scum power I could see requiring the information Ice has asked for would be some kind of one shot that targets all members of a neighborhood in a negative way, so something you wouldn't want to target on a neighborhood containing members of your faction.

I feel allowing scum the opportunity to dismantle communications outside the thread is bad.

The only scum power I could see requiring the information Ice has asked for would be some kind of one shot that targets all members of a neighborhood in a negative way, so something you wouldn't want to target on a neighborhood containing members of your faction.

Which would have my name written all over it, and lead to my lynch. So, no.

Indeed. That doesn't mean such a thing doesn't exist, only that you'd be a fool to use it before MYLO.

Hmm. I fail to see how om's case has any value, at least, any value vs a purely random lynch. I find om's posts to be incoherent however, so perhaps I'm just missing their merit. Also, and this is just a general question going out to anyone who chooses to respond, do you think, if scum saw momentum forming on a train for one of their partners, they would prefer to pile on said train, or to take advantage of the other votes lying around and split the momentum to other options?

Hmm. Soren doesn't care that I'm voting for him, which is perfectly reasonable, but ignoring the reason why I'm voting for him isn't. He hasn't pushed the D1 claim thing at all though, but I'll just leave the vote there for the time being.

I'm having a really hard time separating my distaste for the personality of tptg and his posting style, both in character and out, from my reads on him.

TPTG: Mason, you say? two different 13 person games. Would a 3 person mason team be reasonable in a 13 player game? My first thought when I read that was well, now tptg and their partner should confirm each other, since scum can just kill tptg now and break up the masons, because I didn't think a mason group larger than 2 seemed likely...but maybe it is, and so his mason claim at what, 2 votes, isn't as terrible as it seems to be.

now you can continue to fricking complain i dont even care anymore
bottom line is we want your reads
we do not care how much information you have on them
i know i am completely capable of asking for elaboration where i see fit
so just post your hecking reads and actually play the game

Who are you speaking for here Om? We want your reads? There are people who have voted for drixx, sure, but there are also people who said they accept drixx's defense. Do you have scum reads beyond this drixx 'case'? I don't know, your actions just feel fairly opportunistic, in that, again, there are 100% lurkers(such as myself to a certain extent I think) who have contributed even less to the game than drixx has. Is that scummier than answering questions?

Bad form and all to address someone attacking someone else, but it isn't sitting well with me. I've had more experience playing with Drixx than all of you, I assume...theory posts are pretty standard for him, regardless of alignment. Perhaps my extended knowledge of his play makes me less suspicious of this than I would be if it were someone else.

now you can continue to fricking complain i dont even care anymore
bottom line is we want your reads
we do not care how much information you have on them
i know i am completely capable of asking for elaboration where i see fit
so just post your hecking reads and actually play the game

Who are you speaking for here Om? We want your reads? There are people who have voted for drixx, sure, but there are also people who said they accept drixx's defense. Do you have scum reads beyond this drixx 'case'? I don't know, your actions just feel fairly opportunistic, in that, again, there are 100% lurkers(such as myself to a certain extent I think) who have contributed even less to the game than drixx has. Is that scummier than answering questions?

Bad form and all to address someone attacking someone else, but it isn't sitting well with me. I've had more experience playing with Drixx than all of you, I assume...theory posts are pretty standard for him, regardless of alignment. Perhaps my extended knowledge of his play makes me less suspicious of this than I would be if it were someone else.

idk if you have actually been reading but even like a couple posts above this one another plyer (molla) asked for Drixx's reads, and TPTG has also asked for his reads, i am srsly not the only one.
i dont care about his defense, that is the lowest priority i had in making the case
also you are making blanket statements without naming any names, tell me, who should i be attacking if not drixx?

my scumreads are a mix of ppl like vonflare and pika and im still weird about soren and im also a bit weird about copper too
i actually need to go through the playerlist again anyway bc im having a hard time remembering who isnt actually here regularly

now also i have never played with drixx before either so if u have thats cool and all but pls do not try and turn this on me because you think drixx is being his stock standard self
unless you can tell me what else i should have done calling me opportunistic when i found something i didnt like and pushed it is like calling anyone scum for making a case. you also gotta remember that lurkers are lurkers because they straight up arent posting, whereas drixx is posting therefore there is more to go off. unless you want to divert all your attention to making the lurkers post, then good luck lol

Please don't presume to attempt dictate what I should and shouldn't do. In the very post you quoted, I pointed out that I've been, as you would say, worthless, and asked if my lack of content was more or less meaningful than drixx's theory talk. And, scum reads? I'm just not fond of people who call for mass claims D1, but beyond that I'm ignorant.

need to ISO vonflare, because I'm like 90% skimming this and need to understand what happened there.

Om: Heavy lean town, but could possibly be inspired and bold scum.
ChiVri: Town, I like the death attack.
Drixx: Kinda weirded out by the speed with which his developing train disappeared. Nothing he's done makes me suspicious, but the speed with which it was abandoned once he said something is...worth noting.
Copper: Oh hey, you share reads on everyone. That's nice. Townish

Scum: lurkers.(meaningless)

Disclaimer: Any post TPTG makes that is in character, I barely even skim. Reading it makes my eyes glaze. If I miss something as a result, sorry.

Do you think ActionDan is scum with him for supporting his claim like he did then? Did Drixx get lucky fakeclaiming that particular role?

or are we not interpreting correctly what the mods told us about the two minis being mashed together without adaptation so he could still be mafia with that role and there actually are cross connected roles

? Some other explaination?

I like your idea about the massclaim further along the road in case there is a breaking strat.

Bolding is mine. There is 100% adaptation. My role is proof of said adaptation. The description of the game did not say they mashed them together without adaptation, just that they mashed them together.

Forgot the other game posts.

~Titus

[ika]

I'd be willing to vote vezok too.

cerb is probtown, although he should get an avatar and trust in our proficiency. I have never yet been wrong about setup spec, and while it is theoretically possible that anti designed elements of this setup to fuck with my preconceptions, I believe that he cares more about balance than about dicking with me.

-sthar8

Nothing that creates an NAR problem. I just finished a game that Anti took over and he doesn't know NAR. So it would be highly suspect if he included redirectors or some such.

everyone does NAR deiffrently depednig how they look use it. he already clarified how he resloved it that does not change NAR

that being said im going to sleep got work in 7 hrs

[Sonic Boom]

Keep reading. Anti said I was right when given the basic prompt for NAR.

[Cerberus v666]

Spoiler: Cerb's First 10 posts in this game, not counting confirms

I think it would be valuable to town and useless to scum if we all claimed our compound/element. Is there a potential downside to doing so which I am missing?

That Antihero wouldn't be so reckless as to not give scum fakeclaims?

Not a downside. Neutral in that case, and if he didn't, helpful.

i'd also rather not chance there being a scumchemist who can somehow use the compounds to figure out roles or something iuno.

Downside. Seems very improbable, but sure.

How could such a scumchemist function? Balanced scum PR that would be aided by knowledge of town elements. Go!

not sure.
dont think its super worth going into.

there could also be some kind of pattern behind which compounds/elements are PRs and which are VTs.

let's not find out now kthnx.
join a wagon. theorycrafting is boring.

Bolding mine. MUCH stronger argument. Who should I vote for and why Gorkington?

Ike: I have not seen the first game. I suppose looking at the setup and mechanics there could be useful for this game.

Gorkington: So you say I should make a decision based on mastins meta, or the silly rvs of day 1? No thanks, it's a lot more informative to see exactly how fluffy and opportunistic other peoples cases are.

Seemed to be no town PRs in the previous game, just a mason pairing and inventors to hand out abilities. So mac being a smart ass is scummy now? Hmm.

So mac being a smart ass is scummy now? Hmm.

I cannot begin to count the many, many times that kind of response popped into my head as scum and I had to wean myself off of doing it, as opposed to the 1 or 2 times I've done it as town under a "fuck everything" attitude which shouldn't really be a part of the question right now.

But no, this isn't an "I'd only do it as scum so of course Mac is doing it as scum". It's simply just a response that's more scum-motivated than town-motivated.

VOTE: Shakira

Are you bussing?

What the fuck is this vote?

my hips told me too

and yeah, sure, page 4 i have decided to bus shakira

you got me

good job!

Initial response was offhand comment shaking it off, second response was a scum "just in case" damage control post that, while it tries to keep the tone light and sarcastic, its own existence shows scum instinctively taking vezok's post seriously to curb early suspicion out of necessity.

Is this where I claim Mason before we waste the next 20-50 pages blueballing my lynch?

No, because if it was, then I'd be calling you town before you claim, remain ignorant of your claim while I'm behind and continue to defend you against old attacks.

Is this where I discredit your townplay instead now?

So it's more likely Mac lacked your self restraint as scum, who should be watching every single thing they said, than that he(?) is town and speaking without concern for creating a "townie" persona?

I understand your reasons, I just think you're wrong and overthinking it. Attributing way more to the post than it warrants. Everyone hates being scumread for dumb reasons, only someone incompetent would press the issue for "damage control" because they, like you, can read the thread and see that sufficient damage control was done with the first dismissive post. The second "damage control" post is a terrible play for scum trying to hand wave the accusation away, and is more in line with town saying what's on their mind because they aren't worrying about trying to act like town.

We both see the same things, understand the same motivations, you just choose to believe Mac is bad at being scum, while I choose to believe he's town reacting honestly. Which is more likely?

TL;DR: the reasons scum has for making that post are so incredibly obvious that only obvtown or terrible scum would have made it.

With all that said...why such a terrible and flimsy case on what is basically just OMGUS?

It's barely an "obvious scum post" considering pretty much everyone else skipped over it or didn't bother to read into it just like we usually do for most seemingly-innocuous posts and exchanges.

Also, OMGUS doesn't exist unless you're exceptionally new to the game. If there's anything that's so

obviously

scum motivated that it's actually town, right now it'd most likely be you trying to shut down a Mac wagon using that buzzword and subpar "it could go either way but my way is the right one" WIFOM dismissals.

Well, yes, of course it doesn't exist because usually town has more reason than just that, or at least they try to rationalize it as more than just that, but that doesn't change the fact that the term simply means a vote made on someone who has voted for you. A vote which is typically ignored, as a result. Adding your case on top of it serves to draw attention to a standard, innocuous part of RVS, and I'm just wondering why.

i'm also curious why, when I basically just repeated what someone else had said the page before about OMGUS, you chose to respond to me, and not them. It's all very interesting.

Hmm. I suppose you are right about it being barely an obvious scum post, in that it's only an obvious play if you actually take another look at it...but all it takes is a moment of looking at it to see it, so, I'm going to maintain that it's definitely far from subtle or good.

Train on Shakira: Why? Any of you, why? It's currently at the point where its momentum practically guarantees that slots lynch if you all leave your votes there for any notable amount of time, so...why?

There's a certain tonal shift. In We Didn't PlayTest this, Cerb's open inquistive about more than the setup. IN this game, it's hard to get him to focus on reads, he's abstract all the fucking time. I'm not seeing the same inquistiveness, the same Cerb from We Didn't PlayTest this and it worries me a lot.

There's a time for spec and then there's a time for actually hunting.

You got reads for us yet Cerb?

I've given a reads list already, but it should get updated yes. I'll be honest, I've been relatively lazy/busy compared to the beginning of WDPT, which occurred while I was unemployed and before I started playing DnD. I'll try to get something significant together in terms of thoughts, but it's unlikely it'll be in the next 36h.

So, in short: I'm being inquisitive in the same way, I would say, but I just don't have the time to point that questioning at people/pick up nuances on rereads in the same way I did in the game. Bravo though, that's a very salient point to make, and I'm impressed that you noticed not just the difference but the nature of it after so little exposure to me.