We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Never-melt-ice]

It doesn't have to be at night, daytalk neighbourhoods exist. What would you say if a cop started D1 and asked for a mass claim in order to narrow down his check pool?

Well, if a regular cop claimed and asked for everyone to claim their roles that would be completely unnecessary. But I don't see how my specific case is at all on that scale; I'm just asking for people to claim if they are a neighbor or not. I would rather they kept any other aspects of their role hidden to be revealed at their own discretion.

you're a day cop who is in a neighborhood, or you're a day cop who can only check neighbors?

The second one. I only get a result if my target is a neighbor.

I have to submit the action during the day, then I get a result at night. I wouldn't normally ask for claims so early, but the mod won't tell me if my target is a neighbor or not when I submit. So I would rather know all my options now, instead of guessing blindly and then if wrong have to wait for the next day before I can even try again. :P

That is a reason to request said information that could benefit town. My issue is you asked for neighbors to name their partners. Why would they do that? From how you described your role, it should make no difference to you how the pairings go, but only the fact that someone is part of a pair. Wanting to know the exact pairings is scummy.

When do you get the result from your investigation?

Oh, I see what you mean.

I agree that neighbors should claim on their own. But what I implied and thought was clear was that if you're a neighbor and you claim but your partner(s) refuse to, you should out them yourself. The only reason why you would refuse to claim as a neighbor would be if they didn't want to be investigated.

And I get the result at the beginning of the night. I'm assuming it's so that I can't share it until day comes again, since it was specified beginning of night and not end of day- rules say end of day leads into twilight when we can still talk.

[Never-melt-ice]

The obvious scum motivation for outing all the neighborhoods is that you as scum will then know exactly who else gets to communicate outside the thread and who they get to communicate with. This is very beneficial for scum.

Also I see really easy way that your role has utility as a scum role. All that is required is that you are a role cop instead of a normal one.

Pedit: Why molla?

You know what's also beneficial for scum in this game? Not claiming cop day 1 and risking getting nightkilled by the other scum.

And I still don't see how your first line is a valid point, since seeing who gets to communicate outside the thread isn't a benefit to scum, but to town. Scum can already talk to each other about things out of the thread. We already know multiple neighborhoods exist from the rules post, and because of my role there's likely already scum in them. Town has more ground to gain by outing neighborhoods than scum.

[Narninian]

Unvote

I didn't really think that through; 2 day phases where we have little information is not as useful as 2 day phases later where we have at least 1 night's worth of information. I was just thinking about avoiding scum kills.

[Never-melt-ice]

I'd also like to comment for the mods' sake that I think this role is pretty well designed: either I claim and risk dying early, or I don't claim and risk not finding a single neighbor. It's a good way to limit a town power role and I'll keep it in mind for any games I make in the future.

[copper223]

@Ice
Fair enough, I have nothing against doing it the way Cerberus proposed and you amended, I don't have a neighbourhood.

Does the night phase need to start in order for you to get the result, i.e. would you benefit from BBmolla's claimed ability to skip a night phase?

[BRantz]

Scum don't want other factions to be able to talk at night. There shouldn't be anything hard to understand about that.

Claiming such a specific cop role should prevent other scum from being interested right away anyway.

Also I forgot to address this in my last post, but no I don't expect you to be here all the time.

[vonflare]

I got no neighbours. I feel lonely.

[Never-melt-ice]

BRantz, are you a neighbor or not? What would happen if I investigated you today?

I don't get at all what you think there is to be so afraid of, unless you just don't want me to cop you or a partner. But your very vocal opposition to what I think is a really simple and limited request is ultimately more odd than scummy to me.

[vonflare]

I think we should claim whether we have neighbours or not. The benifit to the town outweighs the potential drawbacks (that is, if Ice isn't lying)

[Never-melt-ice]

Does the night phase need to start in order for you to get the result, i.e. would you benefit from BBmolla's claimed ability to skip a night phase?

I just asked the mod. But my guess is since my role PM specifies beginning of night and not end of day, and knowing that the mod wrote that knowing the full setup including BBmolla's role too (assuming it's a real claim, which I have no reason to doubt atm), I'll only be able to get one or both results when night begins.

[Never-melt-ice]

And even if I were just Townie or a different role, I would say in my experience that Neighbors claiming is usually for more of a town than scum benefit. It's information that scum potentially has access to from the start, while the rest of town don't, so it evens the playing field even if only by a small amount.

[vonflare]

And even if I were just Townie or a different role, I would say in my experience that Neighbors claiming is usually for more of a town than scum benefit. It's information that scum potentially has access to from the start, while the rest of town don't, so it evens the playing field even if only by a small amount.

This post makes absolutely no sense.

How would scum have access to that information?

How does that info help town?

How would that even the playing field?

What does "even if I was a different role..." That's setting up to change your claim.

Fos: ice

[vonflare]

In fact, I'm still sitting on my rvs vote, and ice needs to be... Pressurized.

VOTE: nevermeltice

[Never-melt-ice]

If scum is in the neighborhood, they know who else is in it, its size, etcetera.

If roles like mine exist, that helps; it also helps to keep a record of who's where in case we can catch a slip (such as information that should have only been known in a certain neighborhood, or when a neighbor dies we already know who was the partner, and that neighbor can tell us that they're claiming to a partner in case they die that night).

There's a lot of very specific, very limited situations in which it helps town, I'll admit. But I remember a case in which a player slipped information that was only known to a neighborhood, and since it had been established earlier that they weren't a neighbor, it was noticed as a scum-slip and they couldn't claim neighbor with their scum partner who told them the info.

[Never-melt-ice]

Mod says I would only receive the result on Player B if night 1 was skipped.

[Never-melt-ice]

That is, if night 1 was skipped I would only receive a result for day 2's target on night 2.

[Oranje Crush]

I think we should claim whether we have neighbours or not. The benifit to the town outweighs the potential drawbacks (that is, if Ice isn't lying)

In fact, I'm still sitting on my rvs vote, and ice needs to be... Pressurized.

VOTE: nevermeltice

VOTE: Von Flare

[Never-melt-ice]

What does "even if I was a different role..." That's setting up to change your claim.

:/

Um, no. It's saying that if I was just a Townie or another role in this game and not a Neighbor Day Cop, it's my personal belief that public knowledge of neighborhoods has more potential benefit for town than scum. My opinion is not a product of my role, but of my personal experience.

On a related note, the votes on me seem opportunistic and there's no way it's all town-motivated.

[ActionDan]

I see the derpfest has begun

I'm not part of a neighborhood

edit: I see you have spotted the low fruit. You must have used a shovel

[Never-melt-ice]

In other news, and following the same line of thought, I think Never-Melt Ice needs more pressure. Even if his claim his real, I don't like how he does it immediately and without obvious motivation to do it. He could even be a Scum (Neighbor Day Cop)

So, UNVOTE: VOTE: NeverMeltIce

lol

ActionDan, explain your lol - derp or scum?

I believe scum and I believe you should vote him.

[ActionDan]

hard to tell. I'm already voting the other one

[Cerberus v666]

@Ice
Fair enough, I have nothing against doing it the way Cerberus proposed and you amended, I don't have a neighbourhood.

Does the night phase need to start in order for you to get the result, i.e. would you benefit from BBmolla's claimed ability to skip a night phase?

I didn't propose anything. Words in my mouth...hmm. Innocent mistake or subtle manipulation? Good question about the interaction of the claimed abilities.

I think we should claim whether we have neighbours or not. The benifit to the town outweighs the potential drawbacks (that is, if Ice isn't lying)

Ice could also have any sort of scum power and have it be dependent upon the target being in a neighborhood, but that might be a long shot. Scum, if present in neighborhoods, would know the other members of their neighborhood aren't scum(barring multiple mafia factions). The only scum power I could see requiring the information Ice has asked for would be some kind of one shot that targets all members of a neighborhood in a negative way, so something you wouldn't want to target on a neighborhood containing members of your faction.

I feel allowing scum the opportunity to dismantle communications outside the thread is bad.

[Never-melt-ice]

The only scum power I could see requiring the information Ice has asked for would be some kind of one shot that targets all members of a neighborhood in a negative way, so something you wouldn't want to target on a neighborhood containing members of your faction.

Which would have my name written all over it, and lead to my lynch. So, no.

[vonflare]

I think we should claim whether we have neighbours or not. The benifit to the town outweighs the potential drawbacks (that is, if Ice isn't lying)

In fact, I'm still sitting on my rvs vote, and ice needs to be... Pressurized.

VOTE: nevermeltice

VOTE: Von Flare

How nice that you removed the part where I give a reason for the vote, and then quote a post in which I agree with a statement the person I'm voting for made.

Did you use my vote out of context on purpose, or did a witch control your action?

[Cerberus v666]

The only scum power I could see requiring the information Ice has asked for would be some kind of one shot that targets all members of a neighborhood in a negative way, so something you wouldn't want to target on a neighborhood containing members of your faction.

Which would have my name written all over it, and lead to my lynch. So, no.

Indeed. That doesn't mean such a thing doesn't exist, only that you'd be a fool to use it before MYLO.