[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Ether]

No it isn't. CPR doctors are pretty much vigs.

[vonflare]

Never use RNG-based roles.

[MarioManiac4]

rude

[Klick]

A Double Day setup with mimes would be cool.

I really like the sound of this, makes the game more balanced towards mimes (and town, but mimes need it over scum). Gonna tinker with that later.

[JeanDarc]

Fancy Pants

7p, Day* start, with 4 variations (see the town PR variations)

2x Mafia Goons

3x Vanilla Townies
1x Town Cop

Town PR Variations:

1x Town Doctor OR
1x Town Gunsmith OR
1x Town Bomb OR
1x Town Oracle

Town PR Descriptions:

1x Town Doctor

- Your standard, night-saving Doc**

1x Town Gunsmith

- During the night, Gunsmith can choose to gun another play (cannot target self) or no action. The recipient of gun will be notified by Mod PM on start of the following day. Gunned player can choose to use the gun to kill a player at any point during day by prompting the Mod - either PM, or Mod's specified communication - i.e. bold text. This action is instant and the killed player is prevented from voting/posting.

1x Town Bomb

- Passive. During the night, if this player is killed, one of the players who attempted the kill is also killed. (i.e. kamikaze). This does not affect investigative or visiting roles (i.e. Cop, Doc, GS).

1x Town Oracle

- During the night, Oracle can choose a target player to be revealed once Oracle is killed. The target can be changed at any night. This applies for both night kills and day lynches/kills. (Note that in this mini setup, lynching an Oracle is redundant.)

Special Mod/Setup Rules:

1. *Day start, but D1 is discussion-only - i.e. no lynch. This gives opportunities on both Mafia and Town PR on using educated guess for their N1 actions.
2. **Doctor save is undisclosed. (the public announcement by Mod is the only clue) - obviously, Mafia will know if their kill was saved, especially for N1
3. Due to the mylo in 1v3 or 2v4 situation, Mafia would ideally keep the town pool largest (i.e. a lynch in 1v3 is better than 1v2, probability-wise) in the absence of Cop by choosing NK at nights. This can be "mirrored" by town's decision to NL (no lynch) during days until Mafia decides to kill. At any point, Mod can specify a must-lynch condition during the day to help with game progress.

Misc. Notes and Comments:

- the original setup that inspired me to make this has a Night start. However, having one townie eliminated from the game prior to D1 start is discouraging so I compromised (without changing the integral 7p setup) for a Day start.
- this is a fast-paced, PR-heavy setup. Depending on the night kills, it often turns into a scumhunting war.
- almost always, there will be PR claims with cc from Mafia. Getting rid of all PR's by Mafia by D3 puts the game into scumhunting mode with "no clear" town player who gets to hammer.

[Level 1-1]

Jean, seeing as we already tried Classic and it was heavily imbalanced I would suggest adding 2 villagers/blues/VTs.

[MarioManiac4]

Jean, seeing as we already tried Classic and it was heavily imbalanced I would suggest adding 2 villagers/blues/VTs.

this was me

[JeanDarc]

Jean, seeing as we already tried Classic and it was heavily imbalanced I would suggest adding 2 villagers/blues/VTs.

this was me

Yeah, I found that bigger setups are more likely to be balanced in this setting. I am used to the mini, tight setups that sorta runs through the day and nights until the last MYLO/LYLO situations.

7p setups are definitely tricky I think.

[Tatsuya Kaname]

I think I saw this setup somewhere...

[BBmolla]

Desperate Measures

13 Players

1 Mafia Compulsive Weak Desperado-Giver
1 Mafia Backup Compulsive Weak Desperado-Giver
1 Mafia Doctor

1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Vigilante
8 Vanilla Townies

• Gunsmith gets positive on the two Mafia who aren't the Doctor, anyone with a Desperado, and the Vigilante.
  
• Gunsmith will get positive on those who receive a Desperado the night of the investigation.

No idea about the balance here tbh.

[TierShift]

Can mafia kill the person who they give desperado to?
Are the desperados 1-shot and when do they take their shot?

It's probably very townsided if desperados communicate their targets well because they will shoot all the scummy townies and that means they can't be mislynched by scum anymore.

[BBmolla]

Can mafia kill the person who they give desperado to?
Are the desperados 1-shot and when do they take their shot?

It's probably very townsided if desperados communicate their targets well because they will shoot all the scummy townies and that means they can't be mislynched by scum anymore.

Yes, but that's an oversight. I'll fix.
1-shot, whenever.

Keep in mind how fast people are dying. 10 alive going into day 2.

Maybe I should make vig compulsive though.

[JeanDarc]

I think I saw this setup somewhere...

Care to elaborate? I already mentioned in my post 8354 that it was inspired by an existing setup.
If there is a similar one, I would be very interested to look into it and analyze (and probably would have before posting my setup if I knew of it beforehand)

[TierShift]

Can mafia kill the person who they give desperado to?
Are the desperados 1-shot and when do they take their shot?

It's probably very townsided if desperados communicate their targets well because they will shoot all the scummy townies and that means they can't be mislynched by scum anymore.

Yes, but that's an oversight. I'll fix.
1-shot, whenever.

Keep in mind how fast people are dying. 10 alive going into day 2.

Maybe I should make vig compulsive though.

Make the desperado compulsive too

But well usually scum have the same amount of kills as town and now that ratio will be about 4:1

[Edosurist]

The Keys of Destiny

13 Players

3 Mafia

3 Town Keyholders
7 Vanilla Townies

The mafia only win by

lynching

the three keyholders. The town win by lynching the mafia. The keyholders receive VT role-PMs, but the mafia know who they are.

Comments? Questions? Concerns?

[BBmolla]

Seems just like Chosen Mafia.

[Edosurist]

I'll take a look at that, then. :/

Edit: It's pretty similar, mainly with flavor added and a larger player list.
Thanks. Scrapped.

[JeanDarc]

I'll take a look at that, then. :/

Edit: It's pretty similar, mainly with flavor added and a larger player list.
Thanks. Scrapped.

Interesting mechanic for sure - the Chosen deal with veto/randomly chosen.
Also it's cool to note from the wiki that a lone Chosen townie was considered overpowered - more or less a demi-god role that is hidden to self, but Mafia will be hell-bent on trying to lynch this role.

However I think in the effort to make it balanced, the 2-chosen townie setup is now tilting towards scums because of the severe lack of info and disability for town to claim PR as needed (And drawing out cc)

[Edosurist]

Maybe if there was something like a 1-shot Chosen thief who could steal someone's chosen tag without the mafia knowing.

Or perhaps a 1-shot governor

[Ether]

Eight games of modern Chosen have been run, or 10 if you count marathon games. Town won 3/8 of them (or 4/10). A single game going differently would have meant perfect 50/50 balance. The sample size isn't really enough to say that it's scumsided based off of that. The town does have information--it just comes in the form of forcing scum to behave even more differently than they normally do, instead of in the form of power roles.

Switching the chosen without the mafia knowing is completely terrible. The governor doesn't really

do

much, outside of being a named townie, and I'm not really convinced yet that the game needs one of those.

(And yeah, expecting three different keyholders to all be lynchable is way too much to ask of the scum in Keys of Destiny, even if the game ends when they're finally lynched. I doubt scum would ever win.)

[Runner]

Has/have there been game(s) where the players decided how much time they wanted for each day? So for instance, as soon as everyone's confirmed, everyone's first post has to pick between options: 2 days, 5 days, 9 days, 14 days, 20 days. Votes for each are counted up and the most popular one gets implemented, with Day starting immediately with the deadline. Repeat after each Night phase (fixed at 2 days). I don't know about the setup but maybe some delayed actions in real time ("1-shot 72-hour Delayed Vigilante") could make things interesting.

Or is this kinda silly?

(I got the idea looking at some recent discussions here about Blitz games and shortened days and whatnot.)

[callforjudgement]

Longer deadlines are normally considered townsided, and shorter deadlines scumsided. Regardless of whether this is actually true or not, picking anything other than the maximum would thus be seen as a scumtell.

Meanwhile, choosing before alignments (and thus before confirmation) means that some players will be stuck in a game with deadlines they don't want.

(The best tactic is thus to advertise day periods during signups, and have a range of different day periods in the queues. Which is pretty much what happens at the moment!)

[TierShift]

Longer deadlines aren't really seen as townsided anymore

[wgeurts]

They can cause apathy which is definitely helpful for scum.

[Runner]

Has/have there been game(s) where the players decided how much time they wanted for each day? So for instance, as soon as everyone's confirmed, everyone's first post has to pick between options: 2 days, 5 days, 9 days, 14 days, 20 days. Votes for each are counted up and the most popular one gets implemented, with Day starting immediately with the deadline. Repeat after each Night phase (fixed at 2 days). I don't know about the setup but maybe some delayed actions in real time ("1-shot 72-hour Delayed Vigilante") could make things interesting.

Or is this kinda silly?

(I got the idea looking at some recent discussions here about Blitz games and shortened days and whatnot.)

Okay, so what if we took a setup like MLOSR where there's a lot of night actions. Everyone's actions are delayed. However, there's no way for players to determine by how much everyone else's actions are delayed, apart from how they vote for day length. It could be 72 RL hours, or it could be 2 Day Phases. The mod randomizes how delayed everyone's actions are beforehand, maybe using a predetermined list which mixes RL time periods with day/night phases. Everyone receives their role and alignment, including the delay for their ability. Each day starts with a public vote on the length of the day, the night still being fixed.

Could it work/be fun?