A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Flubbernugget]

What was the whole Tracker issue with... Flubber and Dwlee, I think? I lost track of that.

Dwlee counterclaimed Flubber's one-shot and then retracted his counterclaim.

Since you've been here the whole time and clearly not as averse to doing a lot of digging, want to show me Flubber's reaction to that? Please?

I treated him like a dumbass but his inability to make any attempt to sort me from his actions is scummy

[Malakittens]

<\\<<

I think Mirhawk is town

[Flubbernugget]

Holy shit, I missed that dwlees counterclaim was fake. Fuck man. I am clearly not paying enough attention. :-/

Marquis, Flubber didn't respond to dwlees counterclaim. At all. Other people, like myself, commented on it because it was dumb to act like there was any significance to a tracker counterclaim when the other tracker is just one shot of a JOAT, but he didn't say anything about it. One sec.

You're saying something that's factually wrong and then bring up the quotes that prove your wrong in your next post.

Bravo?

[Cerberus v666]

Holy shit, I missed that dwlees counterclaim was fake. Fuck man. I am clearly not paying enough attention. :-/

Marquis, Flubber didn't respond to dwlees counterclaim. At all. Other people, like myself, commented on it because it was dumb to act like there was any significance to a tracker counterclaim when the other tracker is just one shot of a JOAT, but he didn't say anything about it. One sec.

You're saying something that's factually wrong and then bring up the quotes that prove your wrong in your next post.

Bravo?

Yeah, I went and looked it up and you said one thing that could be argued was a response, however....in that possible response you didn't directly address it? You just said something about him knowing you were an investigative for days, and questioning him on why he brought up the cc thing right now...when that's not even relevant. If he HAD been an actual tracker counterclaiming you, WHY would he have said something earlier, when you hadn't claimed exactly what sort of investigative you were? Your answer wasn't an answer.

[podoboq]

What was the whole Tracker issue with... Flubber and Dwlee, I think? I lost track of that.

Dwlee counterclaimed Flubber's one-shot and then retracted his counterclaim.

Since you've been here the whole time and clearly not as averse to doing a lot of digging, want to show me Flubber's reaction to that? Please?

I treated him like a dumbass but his inability to make any attempt to sort me from his actions is scummy

That's a good point. Dwlee has completely dropped the ball on actually trying to accomplish something with that counterclaim gambit.

[Mirhawk]

/redodge

It looked to me like he didn't get the reaction from flubber he was expecting. Might be a little scummy reactionwise, but I don't think he was ever intending for it to be an actual CC as a fake watcher is a fairly easy fakeclaim to catch. If it was always intended as a reaction test then I don't really see it as being particularly scummy. I mean what would his plan have been?

If it was a scum move then it was poorly executed, probably without discussion with his teammates either.

[The Pied Piper]

I'm quickly realizing my drive to play this game has been weakening the more and more this Mirhawk-TPP-no-I-am-the-top-poster thing continues and judging from recent activity patterns I'm sure it's not just me. This also feels petty to say but I feel like Nacho and Plot should both recognize how much his hydra is contributing to gamewide apathy.

At this point I'm still all for lynching Mirhawk and moving on, but while I don't think I'll actively vote TPP myself I wouldn't be too upset to see them gone.

The game is apathetic because no one gives a shit about it.

You really don't see the chicken-egg cycle in this?

The game was apathetic during the week or two we spent prodging when everyone was saying where the heck is piper and then three days after we came back it was no that's too much piper and now i'm just waiting to see how long it'll take for someone to complain that we're too quiet again.

I'm sorry that we kept responding when people engaged us. We thought people were engaging us because they wanted to interact with us and that they were opening up a dialog to try to get things accomplished and understand each other, but we were mistaken.

Communication is about building a bridge out of my own head. It is hard work, and it is always an act of blind faith that there will be something on the other side of the bridge, that I'm not just building a bridge to nowhere. Sometimes on the other side of the bridge, there's someone who has built their own bridge across their own abyss and we meet in the middle and can understand each other.

But not this game. This game I keep running out of building material and everyone complains that my bridge is different from everybody else's or that i'm building it too slowly or they tell me i should be building it in some other direction instead, but that turns out to be a bridge to nowhere and I was heading the right way in the first place and other times I build the bridge to nowhere by myself. That happens sometimes with communicating; I've never seen a game where it didn't happen. You never know until you cross the bridge if there's gonna be someone on the other side or not.

I normally try not to post like this except when I'm conftown because nobody townreads posts they don't understand and people have the highly unrealistic misconception that I'm able to deliberately switch between communication modes, when I can't even use a telephone, but nobody is reading my posts anyway and I don't want to be prodded.

Nacho has actual reasons for thinking that Mirhawk is town. One of my weaknesses in mafia is that I tend to scumread people who hurt me, but I can usually tell when I'm doing it and I can tell my hydra partner when there's someone that i can't approach a read on them objectively so i'm just going to sheep their read. I guess where I'm at is that 3 of the 9 people who have made me cry at various points in this game have already flipped town and I more or less expect that the rest of them are probably town too just to spite me. But that's more "I wish I were scum so I could just lynch all the people i'm tired of playing with" thinking.

but what's bothering me right now is that dozens of times this game i've stepped aside for a few days and not said anything when someone hurt me, so many times i stepped aside and waited until i could respond to what was actually in the thread and not the ghosts in my head, all the times i didn't say anything and tried not to make the game as toxic for everyone else as it has been for me since early day 1, people started talking about how suspicious it was that i'd fucked off into my own little corner until i could post something that wasn't a meltdown because townPlot would be posting more. and the few times i didn't manage it, the few times we did something other than stare at the ceiling and wait for this game to stop hurting, people were saying that townPlot would be more mindful of other people and wouldn't get sucked into yet another dumb argument and not a word about the people that keep trying to pull us into dumb arguments in the first place.

this game has just been constant hurt and bracing myself for more hurt and opening the thread and combing through it looking for clues even though i knew it was going to hurt and getting hurt anyway and then people saying if i were town it wouldn't hurt and trying to hide it because if you tell someone they're hurting you then they'll know how to do it on purpose in the future.

This prodge wasn't supposed to be a meltdown, I was going to put some thoughts in it but most of the thoughts I have about this game are the kind of thoughts that a laboratory rat has when it's labouring under the misconception that if it just doesn't let the scientist know that the electric shocks hurt it, that the scientist will try to find another way of hurting it, and perhaps the new way will hurt less, maybe if the rat tries really hard, it can convince the scientist that it doesn't like being fed so that the scientist will give it more food. When I put it that way it seems like the rat is labouring in futility because the scientist probably does know that it's hurting the rat no matter how the rat tries to hide it but I just really want to believe that nobody's hurting each other on purpose and that we're all just trying to win.

"I didn't replace out of the last game that made me feel like this" has become somewhat of a mantra for me and I think I've gone into full stubborn mode about refusing to replace out of this game by now.

This game didn't have to hurt. It could have been almost the exact same game with all of the same votes and all of the same scumreads, the same wagons and the same disappointments, the same flips and the same players left alive, the same conclusions to the various arguments with people coming away from a discussion with the same opinions they did in this game, the same as this game just with a few barbs here and there missing, and in the end whichever side that wins this game would win that imaginary game that didn't hurt and at the end of it we all would've said what a good time we had.

Maybe if I put more words into this then less people will read it and they won't see me naked like this in the corner of the thread. Maybe people will see that I posted and think 'oh god plotinus just shut up' and skip it and I won't mind for once.


Cakes - nacho thinks he's town. I know I was back and forth on him for a while but I think I was townreading him before he pissed me off so I guess he's still town?

Mirhawk - nacho thinks he's town. I can't approach this read objectively and am not going to try.

dramonic - makes me laugh and I really like the way he's expressed his scumread on me throughout the game and he's wrong about me but the way he goes about it is fun and so much of this game hasn't been fun but nacho thinks he might not be town

dwlee - has decided to play the role of our kid brother. I remember when I was a kid, the teachers would say that the other kids were only being mean to me because they liked me and I think that's been dwlee's scum strategy for this game: he's tunnelling us because he has a crush on us and/or he read somewhere that nacho tends to townread people who attack him but he doesn't know how to pull it off believably and this is the result.

Marquis - is town.

Flubber - still think he's town based on how town tictac was in the neighbourhood. I want to elaborate on this in a week or two.

Cerb is...not doing enough and we seem to be voting him. It's weird that he has 360 posts because his approach to the game has felt so insubstantial.

Mala - is town and I'm hoping she will have more time for this game when finals finish up for her.

itlepip - I could sheep Marquis on itlepip i guess.

pistachi0n is town.

shotty - talah was pretty town but.

podoboq - still feels like newbie town to me. his behaviour around the Ranger wagon was town and his paranoia about being left alive because he's new and vulnerable to manipulation feels town and the way he's asking people to attack him feels town. also the way people keep manipulating him makes me think he's town even though i think some of the people who are manipulating him are also town. I'd have to make an iso map to be sure but the way his reads change throughout the game reminds me pretty strongly of the way

ircher

's reads were shifting around in micro 600 or how my own reads were when i was newer and people used to scumread me for it but i really think it's just a new thing.

I hate what games like this do to my reads. That fucking blitz was like this too when it kept getting worse and worse until all my reads were focused around "are they hurting me because they're scum trying to goad me into overreacting and then mislynch me for it or are they hurting me because they're town who've somehow bumbled into pushing all of my buttons" and I hate it but that's where I am.

ISOs that I could probably read without having a meltdown: cerb, dram, mala, pist, podoboq, maybe itlepip maybe beeboy, shotty but not talah, flubber, dwlee but there's not much point in reading his ISO when he's got 309 posts on the same topic, probably most of marquis' iso anyway.

of those, ISOs that there's a reason for me to read them: cerb, podoboq, itlepip, maybedram, flubber

cerb, to find out what substance is there and categorise it, podoboq because I have a feeling i'm going to need to make a towncase for him since a lot of people don't seem to be seeing what I do, itlepip because I want to figure out what I think of him before sheeping anybody on him, dram because nacho but I Feel like I have most of dram's ISO memorised because it's mostly "axel is scum, davesaz was scum until he wasn't, podoboq and plot are newbscum" but might as well but he's near the end of the list because i'm not expecting to get as much out of it as the others because of his playstyle, and by the time I get to flubber I'll be able to articulate what i want to say about him.

is this post long enough yet for people to miss the bit in the middle where i started crying because that's what i'm hoping for. Maybe it's long enough that only the people that care about me will read it.

The reason I was talking about bridges earlier is there's this poem I keep quoting at nacho in our hydra PT because it keeps coming up, first with how I felt about my own failed attempts to communicate with the rest of the town and then I quoted it at him in empathy for him when he tried to get through to Mirhawk and everyone yelled at him for trying. It's a poem written back in the 80's by an autistic person about the hurt, frustration, and anger that comes from dealing with people for whom nothing xe could do was ever enough. For me, it's very specifically about struggling to communicate and people refusing to meet me halfway.

I'm just so tired of having to work twice as hard to get half as far.

Town wins games by building bridges across the abyss and finding each other, two strangers meeting in the night, finding friends in unlikely places. It's not enough to find scum; we have to find town and keep them from lynching each other. We failed pretty badly at finding town yesterDay and toDay we seem to be failing at the keep them from lynching other part.

It is really strange that people who have played with us before are saying things like "if you were town you would shut up and let us lynch your townreads."


anyway I might as well start crawling through cerb's ISO, but i'll stop and post this when my girlfriend shows up in IRC because I love her more than I love you guys.

18 pages in twenty four hours! HOLY MOLY!

Remembering that we were on page 18 less than 24 hours into the game is a bit of a shock because I remember the first time this game got under my skin was before this page number and I can't believe it's been two months. What am I doing with my life?

Cerb's first substantial post is 875 with a vote on Mirhawk, almost 200 pages ago. This was back with the miller counterclaim thing and Mirhawk's reaction to it probably and I know I cared about that issue at the time but then it went on for so long that I stopped caring about it, I got care-fatigue or something.

Cerb's dislike of itlepip's slot in 880 makes me feel like they're less likely to be scum together because I don't think he'd start undermining what his buddy was trying to accomplish so early after replacing in, but I guess it depends on how hard he pushes back on itlepip slot.

pedit: Spiffeh, I've made 3 posts now. You should definitely know my alignment at this point. ^^

Not sure if serious or joking which is a sign I probably shouldn't be ISOing right now if tripping over stuff like this but I'm determined to finish writing this prodge. Cerb, did you seriously expect Spiffeh to know your alignment within three posts or were you trying to convey something else?

Defends Skybird a bit in 902.

Nah we aren't lynching Mirhawk today.

Yay and I'm 100% caught up anyone can ask me anything and I'll have an informed opinion so you guys should totally ask me things!

Also, that took 3 hours? wtf? Man. I'm falling off, or else this game is especially wall filled. I can't believe I only read like 300 posts an hour. 5 a minute? more than 12 seconds each? Super lame show by me.

dramonic, when are you going to start playing? Are you happy having opinions that nobody cares about?

I always want to townread posts like this because it feels really brazen to show up in the thread and say that you read the game way too quickly for any scumhunting to have possibly taken place, that's why I backed off fingerbringer in the blitz when he was at L-1 cheerifully saying that his town meta was that he doesn't scumhunt but it turns out that firebringer's town meta is that he

does

scumhunt a bit amongst the fluffposting and so after that when I see this kind of post I feel like maybe it's just cheeky scum owning their effortless approach to the game. I'm not sure what the dig at dramonic means for their respective alignments. I'll think about it.

I liked 917 back when I still cared about the miller thing, but now it feels like the way we all felt about this song at the end of Summer 1997.



Oh hey it's my girlfriend. She loves me more than you guys do so I'm done here for today.

PRODGE

[SirCakez]

TPP, who do you want to lynch today?

[Cerberus v666]

Love you plot. I'm sorry this game has been such a trial for you.

To answer the question about Spiffeh: No, it was mostly a joke, though I was posting, umm...in an extremely stream of consciousness fashion, one which I feel I can only do as town, so I do expect people who have played with me before and who have displayed an ability to accurately read me as town to pick up on it very quickly. Basically, Spiffeh is part of a small group of players who I expect to correctly determine my alignment quite quickly, but 3 posts is probably too quickly.

Also, just a note about the brazen reading post: I read quite quickly, and was sincerely surprised that it took me so long to get through the thread...and I read it in as much depth as I normally do. Anyways, just letting you know you're misinterpreting that post. It isn't me saying I caught up too quickly to read the game properly, it's me being confused about why it took me longer than I expected to catch up.

[Dwlee99]

is tpp getting wagon'd yet?

[drmyshottyizsik]

is tpp getting wagon'd yet?

still waiting on mir to die

[Dwlee99]

Why

[Cerberus v666]

Shotty, I also want to know the effect of mirhawk flip on your reads etc.

[Flubbernugget]

Holy shit, I missed that dwlees counterclaim was fake. Fuck man. I am clearly not paying enough attention. :-/

Marquis, Flubber didn't respond to dwlees counterclaim. At all. Other people, like myself, commented on it because it was dumb to act like there was any significance to a tracker counterclaim when the other tracker is just one shot of a JOAT, but he didn't say anything about it. One sec.

You're saying something that's factually wrong and then bring up the quotes that prove your wrong in your next post.

Bravo?

Yeah, I went and looked it up and you said one thing that could be argued was a response, however....in that possible response you didn't directly address it? You just said something about him knowing you were an investigative for days, and questioning him on why he brought up the cc thing right now...when that's not even relevant. If he HAD been an actual tracker counterclaiming you, WHY would he have said something earlier, when you hadn't claimed exactly what sort of investigative you were? Your answer wasn't an answer.

For one, it's not in the dwlee meta to wait on screaming and shouting about something he sees

Second, if I said "where are your crumbs" we wouldn't be having this discussion

[Cerberus v666]

....flubbernugget. what the fuck was there for him to see before you claimed tracker, specificaly? He couldn't have tried a counterclaim gambit on you WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT TO COUNTERCLAIM WITH.

[Flubbernugget]

You're assuming I knew he was gambiting... Why?

[Flubbernugget]

You're also more concerned with my questions than the fact that dwlee was unable to answer them

[drmyshottyizsik]

Shotty, I also want to know the effect of mirhawk flip on your reads etc.

not going to happen

[Flubbernugget]

Oh I guess I didn't directly answer your question looking back at it

His cc was a mix between being balance based and "2 trackers doesn't mix" based. The balance part of the cc should have pinged somewhere

[Cerberus v666]

You're assuming I knew he was gambiting... Why?

No, I'm not assuming you knew he was gambiting? Where do you get that from?

[Marquis]

Sorry, this game fell by the wayside yet again.

I think I wouldn't be opposed to a Dwlee lynch now but then again I wouldn't be opposed to a Flubber lynch either.

This game is a lot of me not liking either side of these 1v1s. I'm a cranky old man

[Dwlee99]

i don't see tpp votes???

[Flubbernugget]

You're assuming I knew he was gambiting... Why?

No, I'm not assuming you knew he was gambiting? Where do you get that from?

It was just the way I interpreted your post

....flubbernugget. what the fuck was there for him to see before you claimed tracker, specificaly? He couldn't have tried a counterclaim gambit on you WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT TO COUNTERCLAIM WITH.

"He couldn't have tried a counterclaim gambit"

Like, maybe he was a tracker. Now it's no longer a gambit, just a stupid play.

[SirCakez]

Shotty, I also want to know the effect of mirhawk flip on your reads etc.

not going to happen

Do it
or else

i don't see tpp votes???

Make them happen you scrub

[Dwlee99]

I've already said why they're scum, sircakez. It should have happened yesterday tbh