Micro 674 9:12 Dream Mafia. Game over

[hapahauli]

I've posted all I needed to on

Penguin

before.

Penguin_alien

also thinks mafia is

Grey

,
Because he’s posting in an anti-town way,
But instead of pushing her vote,
She argues with

Gerryoat

I would also lynch her today.

(I was pretty proud of this limerick tbh.)

Her vote on Grey, combined with 4 posts over a few days actively arguing against grey's vote on Tepes makes little sense from a town perspective.

Very quick post, around more this weekend, husband had surgery early yesterday, been dealing with prep/aftermath.

From my scan:

Limericks are fucking annoying, FTR. I don't think gerryoat started conflict with me per se that prevented me from pursuing my lynch choice. Firebringer begging for rope did more for that after my own apathy. Have to reread in light of flips. Don't have current reads.

This defense is pretty bad.
a) Scum enjoy shitting on other players (limericks) without providing anything to the thread themselves.
b) "Firebringer begging for rope" is a pretty bad excuse, considering that Firebringer started his emo suicidal thing on Jan 19th, and all those posts I picked out from her arguing with garry were from Jan 16th to 19th. She clearly had enough time to argue with Gerry. Why didn't she push her vote? Simply, she wasn't interested in pushing her vote, and just interested in looking like she was contributing.

As for the replacement...

[hapahauli]

VOTE: Alisae

Alisae looks like mafia. Really mafia. I typically give replacements some time to work. But I've just seen Alisae work and it's bad.

You can look at Alisae's play since the replacement in two ways:
a) That he's throwing his vote around in an effort to pressure players and generally catch up in the game. "Reaction test."
b) That he's throwing his vote around because he wants to look like he's doing something in the thread.

Explanation b makes much more sense. His play reads a lot like she's throwing around suspicions, rather than trying to solve the game. JaeReed picked up one one bit:

Hey JaeReed.
How come you didn't push hapahuali yet for things like, say, idunno, 470?

I'll let you in on a secret that I'm fairly sure you would have figured out by now, and I'm pretty sure I've also told you when we were discussing tells.

No tell is perfect. Town will also jump on a nightkill. That's why you have to analyze the way one goes about it.

I could ask you the same thing, though. Why vote Grey first and then me instead of hap if you feel like that's something I should have pushed on? Shouldn't you then be voting hap?

I'll also share something else with you: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8332123
I'm pretty sure I've already shown you that but take a look and memorize it for when you're town. You're making the same mistake scum!GL made here in assuming I'll listen to a scumread trying to tempt me with one of my tells. If I thought enough of it either way I'd be pushing it.

It makes very little sense for Alisae to attack JaeReed for not reading me as suspicious without voting me. It shows a mentality that he's voting someone, throwing reasons for why they could be mafia, throwing reasons for why OTHER people could be mafia, and making the next vote.
A townie mentality is much more clear and direct. "I think mafia is <player> for <reasons>." Alisae is just flailing about with a very unnatural thought process.

Her vote sequence on me is also very bad. While I don't care much for her reasons for voting me, I don't think they're independently scummy. What's scummy is what he does after voting me.
Votes me.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8785400
Attacks Tepes.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8785437
Attacks TPA
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8785618
Attacks BTD (despite having her vote on the guy who has been pushing him the hardest).

He's not just "catching up". He's just throwing shit around and seeing what sticks.

Ergo, he's mafia.

[hapahauli]

So yes, I've arrived at two "lurkers" (and -Grey- sort of). I am pretty sensitive to this. I've played this game enough to know that attacking two such players can be perceived as "opportunistic" or "lazy."

However, it is not just the frequency, but rather the content of penguin/BTB's posts that I found suspicious. That, combined with some pretty strong town reads on Jae/Garry/TPA help me narrow this game down. I'd feel far less comfortable with this game if it thought penguin/BTB were simply inactive, rather than suspicious.

[hapahauli]

I also have no idea why I keep confusing my pro-nouns with regard to Alisae. The female anime avatar makes me think "female" for some reason, and I keep having to fight against it...

>_>

[-Grey-]

Scumreading me, eh?

Still butthurt over my annoyance vote?

Not everybody likes Dr. Seuss, dude.

[hapahauli]

I very clearly stated my two strongest scum-reads were BTB and Alisae.

[-Grey-]

Dumping your penguin scumread, then?

[hapahauli]

Anyway Grey, I don't know where you stand on this game beyond your "annoyance" vote. Who do you think is mafia?

Have you not been following that Alisae replaced in for penguin?

[-Grey-]

I've been up for 36 hours. I forget shit.

Pretty sure I remember posting opinions on most folks recently, though.

[hapahauli]

Anyway Grey, I don't know where you stand on this game beyond your "annoyance" vote. Who do you think is mafia?

Have you not been following that Alisae replaced in for penguin?

This is the closest thing you have:

Anyway Grey, I don't know where you stand on this game beyond your "annoyance" vote. Who do you think is mafia?

Have you not been following that Alisae replaced in for penguin?

tho Grey I still would like your reads

I have a grudge scumread on TPA. I think his push on me is disingenuous.

That said, I agree with stuff he says that

isn't

about me... so I'm kinda torn there.

My pet scumread was flubber and I was going to keep pushing him today, but he was killed last night so meh.

I'm not explicitly townreading BTD, but he's not exactly a scumread either. Not a fan of Gerry pushing me to hop on the wagon when it's already at L-2.

Penguin was striking me as lurker scum.

Jae is town.

The bolded is what I'm curious about, because it's very vague. Mainly the reads on Gerry and the Alisae/Penguin slot.

[hapahauli]

Dear god is there any way to turn off these auto-quotes?

[hapahauli]

My point in all of this is that all I really know about your scumreads is that you find rhyming annoying. Which aside from hurting my fragile feelings, also makes it hard to feel good about your slot.

[-Grey-]

The bolded is what I'm curious about, because it's very vague. Mainly the reads on Gerry and the Alisae/Penguin slot.

Before I talk to you about gerry, why don't you tell me why you aren't pushing Gerry instead of BTD considering you are following flubber's reads?

Since flubber died voting Gerry, that's obviously who he was scumreading the strongest.

And yeah, it's hard not to be vague when talking about lurkers.

[-Grey-]

After reading Hap's ISO, I'm really looking forward to his answer.

He was pushing gerry d1, who flubber was also voting.

Then, overnight he forgets that push and bounces over to BTD out of the blue.

It doesn't make sense.

[hapahauli]

The bolded is what I'm curious about, because it's very vague. Mainly the reads on Gerry and the Alisae/Penguin slot.

Before I talk to you about gerry, why don't you tell me why you aren't pushing Gerry instead of BTD considering you are following flubber's reads?

Since flubber died voting Gerry, that's obviously who he was scumreading the strongest.

And yeah, it's hard not to be vague when talking about lurkers.

Sure.

As stated previously, I think Gerry is town because he is very clearly interested in the activity of the thread and is pushing the game forward. You can see this on both days in this game.

I

am not

reading BTB solely on Flubber's read. I

never

lynch people solely based on mafia shots. You'll notice that my entire case on BTB on the last page didn't deal with Flubber's read at all. The only reason I made that post is that I found the reasons TPA's 180 on JaeReed absurd (sheeping Firebringer), and that I specifically wanted to address how dumb that reasoning was, and perhaps make an argument that would appeal more to TPA. You'll notice that I explained this in my filter earlier:

The point I'm trying to submit,
Is that Firebringer's reads can be shit,
But if we're going to listen to the dead,
We should listen Flubber instead.
Cause Firebringer didn't play he just quit.

I really regret bringing Flubber up in the first place, because people seem to be latching on to that a lot more than what makes BTB6_maker actually scummy - his defense.

[hapahauli]

After reading Hap's ISO, I'm really looking forward to his answer.

He was pushing gerry d1, who flubber was also voting.

Then, overnight he forgets that push and bounces over to BTD out of the blue.

It doesn't make sense.

When I had just replaced in, I skimmed the thread and plopped down a vote on gerry. I found him being critical of the thread suspicious, and wanted to see how people would react. Of course, the day ended far earlier than I anticipated after Flubber got hammered.

So overnight, I read the thread in-depth and caught up. I changed my opinion on Gerry. His "critical" attitude made a good deal of sense, and I was ignoring that he was legitimately trying to push the game forward on Day 1. The two reads I arrived at during the night were BTB and penguin, hence my immediate cases.

Point is, my play makes perfect sense when you consider that I can read the thread and change my opinions.

[BTD6_maker]

BTB6_maker

is a lurker. I made the case on him at the beginning of the day primarily because I thought he was a lurker and wanted to get more information from him. Also, I think making it to LYLO with a player like BTB is a disaster. He will be a liability regardless of alignment due to his activity.

That all being said, I do legitimately think he is mafia for his defense.

I will pick apart Hapahauli's case on me.

In my experience playing this game, stuff like this always comes from mafia. Mafia generally aren't confident, but try to put up a "front" of calmness or confidence. But that also betrays their mentality. When a townie is falsely accused, you generally see a very emotional response. Something along the lines of "FUCK YOU, I'M TOWN." Even if people don't explicitly say it, posts will generally betray that mentality. You'll typically see some emotion (sadness, anger, frustration). Most people do not enjoyed being called liars.

The mentality of "I will calmly pick this case apart now" is

very hard to come from town

. That's not a natural thought process from someone who is falsely accused.

Secondly, his actual defense. His defense boils down to "I can do this as either alignment." And to his credit, he is certainly a lurking player regardless of alignment. However, what's suspicious is what his defense is missing.

Nothing about his defense tells us that he's town.

. Again, the "FUCK YOU, I'M TOWN" psychology of being falsely accused. Nothing in that defense is about him being town. It's all about discrediting the analysis because he can do it as either alignment. Logically valid? Yes. But psychologically very suspicious.

I do not "lurk". Right now I will inevitably be fairly inactive due to V/LA. Even otherwise, I am a busy person in Real Life. You seem to think that a lack of activity automatically implies lurking which automatically implies scumminess. This is the false assumption.

Also, I am generally a rather unemotional, rational player regardless of alignment. When attacked, instead of spamming AtE I try to examine the flaws in the cases on me. My natural thought process, regardless of alignment, is indeed "I will calmly pick this case apart now". You will typically see very little emotion in my posts.

There is nothing really that I can do as Town but not fake as scum (short of certain PR claims, obviously). Indeed, assume that that was the case. In that case, my optimal play as Town would be to use it as a "trust tell", which is not allowed. Scum can fake just about anything. It's true that my case is logically valid, but not psychologically very suspicious. You are assuming that my psychology is similar to that of others you have played with. Most people indeed do not like enjoy being called a liar, myself included. But not everyone shows emotion through their posts. For every emotional player, there is a stoic player.

VOTE: Hapahauli

[-Grey-]

Flubber didn't get hammered. Fire did.

Guess I'm not the only one that forgets shit.

I can't say I agree with your townread on Gerry. He asks a lot of questions, but I never see him actually doing anything with it. It's like he's just dropping them in the thread to look engaged, but not actually responding to the answers he's being given.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Hapahauli

Why is he scum?

[hapahauli]

Flubber didn't get hammered. Fire did.

Guess I'm not the only one that forgets shit.

I can't say I agree with your townread on Gerry. He asks a lot of questions, but I never see him actually doing anything with it. It's like he's just dropping them in the thread to look engaged, but not actually responding to the answers he's being given.

Fire. I meant fire. Anyway, is there anything in my explanation that doesn't make sense?

There's also some more stuff on Gerry, like his interaction with TPA. In his ISO, #59 to 64. He pointed out a pretty good inconsistency in TPA's filter, but doesn't feel the need to jump down TPA's throat. He waits for answers, votes him for pressure, then considers an alternative explanation.

I guess what was said about TPA not doing something that obvious as scum makes sense, but idk. Coulda just been a spur of the moment thing. Either way,

VOTE: BTD6_Maker

It's a thought process that show's he's actively considering the game, and not just pushing suspicion around.

Anyway, I don't care that you read Gerry as strong as I do. What do you htink about Alisae? I've posted quite a bit on him, so at least consider it.

[hapahauli]

VOTE: Hapahauli

Why is he scum?

Just more evidence of BTB being mafia. It's a pure OMGUS vote.
He's voting me because he thinks my case is bad, not because he thinks I'm mafia. He's not trying to solve the game.

[-Grey-]

I'm not interested in voting Alisae at this point. I'd rather give him some time to get acclimated to the game.

Penguin had, what, seven whole posts? Hardly enough to condemn a slot.

One thing is certain, it's not a lurker slot anymore. If Alisae is scum, it'll shine through.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Hapahauli

Why is he scum?

Just more evidence of BTB being mafia. It's a pure OMGUS vote.
He's voting me because he thinks my case is bad, not because he thinks I'm mafia. He's not trying to solve the game.

That's a fair point, actually.

[hapahauli]

I think Alisae's shining through pretty strong. Did you even read what I posted?

As for BTB, I've gone through most of his game history. The guy gets mislynched as town like every other game. For all the people who could be making an OMGUS vote, his makes the LEAST amount of sense, since townies are mislynching him on the regular. On top of that, he's doing all the above while putting me at L-1.

He's mafia folks.

[-Grey-]

On top of that, he's doing all the above while putting me at L-1.

Looks like you're L-2, to me?