Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]


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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:03 am

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

In post 147, Hopkirk wrote:Nah, multiple wagons is good. It has to go through a transition phase.
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:06 am

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

hop's line of thinking is natural and genuine, him and kat are both likely town
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:07 am

Post by Katyusha »

hm

let me take a second look then after i have lunch.
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:15 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Katyusha is right UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hopkirk

If Flubb is town, Hopkirk is scum, probably. "how?" Whiteknighting players without second guessing when most could see that UC and Flubb were sus. And also I'm sheeping Kat.
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:23 am

Post by Hopkirk »

Regarding the Moz read, I got the impression he was overstating townreads, but I don’t think he specified hard in the way you’re defining it either.
In post 165, BuJaber wrote:In this game yes I'm finding the approach scummy. I don't think there's enough to warrant such confident reads. But I don't necessary think he's definitely wrong about his townreads.

But I can see how some town would choose this approach sometimes. I wouldn't. I tend to break the pool apart into small pieces. For example right now I have flubb/seph in one group. Scumreading both, but I don't think both can be scum together so I'll be analyzing them further as the game goes on. I have moz as another scumread, and I'm pursuing this trajectory and seeing if it makes sense through his and others' reactions. I have sheep as a townie which means i'll be continuing to monitor if that makes sense, and if his reads make sense from a townie perspective. Hopkirk, who was a nullread more or less but slightly leaning towards town has actually raised a good point about sheep so that makes me question things for example.

Anyway you get the picture.
Then they should be your first priorty to sort. If you read them correctly (decide which is scum/town) you get info there, and on everyone who's been on all the wagons. Much more useful vote than Moz where it seems to be a policy vote.
In post 176, Katyusha wrote:yeah im townreading that entire composition here rn
In post 115, Flubbernugget wrote:You do know what a wagon with no counterwagon tends to point to...rignt?
i've definitely been on D1 scum lynches that have been strongarmed by entirely town so from an uninformed perspective this doesnt really help clear you

Who do you think is the scum on your wagon rn?
Even Serg?
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:27 am

Post by Hopkirk »

In post 166, Katyusha wrote:i think i'm at

{sheep, n_m} - Town
{Intern, Serg} - Townlean
{hem, moz} - weaker townlean
{Bu, Hop} - frequently going back and forth on tbh
{UCV, Schism} - null
{Seph, Flub} - scumlean

which is a lot less than i thought i was at and im not really confident about seph with the meta reads on him (planning on looking into that rn)
In post 192, Katyusha wrote:i mean i can agree with that on paper but i dont really know if for sure if that'd be enough for me to feel like i have some semblance of understanding the gamestate rn

VOTE: Hopkirk

sheep and seph can you tell me how you feel about the conversation I had with him?
Did something change, or are you just trying to sort me?
In post 194, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Or do you think Hopkirk is more probable to be scum than Flubb?
Don't like that you're asking instead of voting me here. You seem a bit too cautious/sheepy with your votes given you disliked UC.
In post 193, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Don't unvote. If someone hammers, it would be AI and I'd like to see why. I'm actually good with the lynch if it happens.
In post 203, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Katyusha is right UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hopkirk

If Flubb is town, Hopkirk is scum, probably. "how?" Whiteknighting players without second guessing when most could see that UC and Flubb were sus. And also I'm sheeping Kat.
Are you reading Flubber as town?
What about my townread on Flubber is bad/wrong?

Since most could see why Flubber was suspicious, please go over his case in your own words.
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:37 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

well you can't be wrong about your townread on flubb if you know flubb is town. it just seems convenient that you can see 20/20 about Flubb's alignment and happy to defend him. i think that flubb could be town here even if the wagon is town. but im not townreading him. that's my problem. i should be, but it's absent in how he voted, handled the situation around him, and how he defended. there's an absence of clear town signs from him. but somehow you townread him.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:39 am

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

he has a unique townread so you scumread him?
it's just different reads
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:42 am

Post by Hopkirk »

In post 206, humaneatingmonkey wrote:well you can't be wrong about your townread on flubb if you know flubb is town. it just seems convenient that you can see 20/20 about Flubb's alignment and happy to defend him. i think that flubb could be town here even if the wagon is town. but im not townreading him. that's my problem. i should be, but it's absent in how he voted, handled the situation around him, and how he defended. there's an absence of clear town signs from him. but somehow you townread him.
The largest part of why I like Flubber is because I dislike the wagon.
You're suggesting I'm 100% sure about the read, despite my agreement on overstating reads.
'20/20' and 'if you know' and 'you can't be wrong' imply a lot more than I've said.
Meta is a minor point. Surprised you didn't want to know what game I was talking about given I specified it was his entry I thought was similar. Still, he'd be a minor lean without the wagon.

What are your thoughts on Serg?
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:42 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Hopkirk, earlier wrote:Don't like that you're asking instead of voting me here. You seem a bit too cautious/sheepy with your votes given you disliked UC.
I dont like how you think i should have voted you there. i dont like how you're branding my play cautious here when that's not even what's happening. i dont like how you think sheeping is something unlikeable. and i don't like how you think me not liking UC is somehow grounds to not place my vote elsewhere
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:43 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

we're reading the same thread. so he should at least be seeing the stuff being echoed repeatedly and consider it. it's called paranoia and being blind about everybody's alignment.
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:44 am

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

blatant omgus
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:46 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

i also dont like how you're defending hopkirk
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:47 am

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

somewhat scummy in the way that the sr feels forced bc they arent actually scummy things
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:48 am

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

In post 212, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i also dont like how you're defending hopkirk
i townread him, and i dont think he's a good place to put votes
what's wrong with that
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:50 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

i think the perspective is coming from someone who isn't town. just because it's not written in the wiki, doesn't mean it's not valid.

also i think your defense is not coming from someone who is town. even if hopkirk is town here.
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:50 am

Post by Katyusha »

In post 205, Hopkirk wrote:Did something change, or are you just trying to sort me?
nothing really changed, and i'm still trying to sort most of the table

my vote is really multipurpose and it's kind of hard to articulate what i'm doing without defeating its purpose

for clarification on my readlist "going back and forth on" and "null" are equal tiers, it's just I dont have a reason to read UCV and Schism one way or another, versus Bu and Hopkirk who at that point I could see as either align.

i'm trying to put the conversation i had with hopkirk in a spoiler so maybe it's a bit more clear what i'm trying to ask sheep about bc on an in-context read it's still bugging me

i also am pretty happy with hme's vote - it's not the same reason i voted hopkirk but it's a good point. im not as content his sheep scumread though and think it's more likely sheep just needs a second look at hop or rebutt the point i'll bring up depending on how seph approaches the situation
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:53 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

it doesn't feel like serg is on the side of the town this game
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:54 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

but that's not a scumread. i just want to watch and see.
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:55 am

Post by Hopkirk »

In post 209, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Hopkirk, earlier wrote:Don't like that you're asking instead of voting me here. You seem a bit too cautious/sheepy with your votes given you disliked UC.
I dont like how you think i should have voted you there. i dont like how you're branding my play cautious here when that's not even what's happening. i dont like how you think sheeping is something unlikeable. and i don't like how you think me not liking UC is somehow grounds to not place my vote elsewhere
Consistently cautious. Pattern, not just here.
I thought you liked UC so voted Flubber, might be wrong about the consistently part then. Why do you dislike UC?
Why didn't you respond to my other points.
In post 211, sheepsaysmeep wrote:blatant omgus
Who from?
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:56 am

Post by Hopkirk »

In post 209, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Hopkirk, earlier wrote:Don't like that you're asking instead of voting me here. You seem a bit too cautious/sheepy with your votes given you disliked UC.
I dont like how you think i should have voted you there. i dont like how you're branding my play cautious here when that's not even what's happening. i dont like how you think sheeping is something unlikeable. and i don't like how you think me not liking UC is somehow grounds to not place my vote elsewhere
Looking back you never mentioned UC which makes this curious.
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:58 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

no. i dont have an opinion on UC. there's literally nothing on UC. im just noting what you said.
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:58 am

Post by Katyusha »

In post 217, humaneatingmonkey wrote:it doesn't feel like serg is on the side of the town this game
serg just feels like he's going to be kind of hard to sort through normal means - gut says he's townie here tbh but i dont really have much more than that





Spoiler: Conversation with Hopkirk
In post 31, Hopkirk wrote:
In post 30, Katyusha wrote:I was under the assumption that UCV rvs'd but then said we should try to get out of rvs as soon as possible which seems like a normal progression to me

though i guess that vote could have been serious - if it is UCV i'd actually like to hear what you think the scum motivation for that vote is
Why do we need solid scum motivation at this point? You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie.
The issue is inconsistency.
Plus we get out of RVS like he wanted.
In post 32, Katyusha wrote:If his vote is serious, then he more than likely believes that Intern's vote is scummy and I'd like to hear him elaborate on why scum would vote someone for their avatar.

and again i dont think ucv's actions were inconsistent - it's just bad.
In post 34, Hopkirk wrote:He clearly doesn't think that 'anyone engaging in RVS is scum'. Why do you think it might be serious.
In post 35, Katyusha wrote:
In post 7, UC Voyager wrote:
In post 4, Internecine wrote:VOTE: BuJaber

Avatar is too edgy for me please lynch this
VOTE: internecine

Hmmm. Avatars mean nothing
Walk on the moon with me for a second Hop

I think it's absolutely believable this vote is serious coming from someone who is known for trying to force RVS to end early and want clarification

Do you disagree?
In post 146, Hopkirk wrote:1.) That requires UCV to think that everyone agrees with him, hence find anyone participating in RVS scummy. He clearly doesn't have that view since he only referenced one person there, not everyone involved in RVS.
2.) It's a wagon, not a major scumread. Main value is how UCV and other reaction to it. You're treating it like more than it is to a strange degree.
In post 148, Katyusha wrote:hopkirk i dont know if you're being deliberately obstinate but i'm obviously not referring to ucv's thoughts regarding rvs here?

can you reread what i've been writing?
In post 149, Hopkirk wrote:@Kat: Haven't caught up yet. Posting as I read.
In post 152, Hopkirk wrote:
In post 150, Katyusha wrote:doesnt matter if you're still caught up bc that was my response to your response and context wouldnt change anything :dead:

dont mind waiting for you to catch up though
The point was that I'd seen what you'd said, but I'd finish catching up before responding.
In post 7, UC Voyager wrote:
In post 4, Internecine wrote:VOTE: BuJaber

Avatar is too edgy for me please lynch this
VOTE: internecine

Hmmm. Avatars mean nothing
This is the post you were referencing, right?
In post 153, Katyusha wrote:Yeah. Is it really unreasonable to think that, regardless of what other people would think of that vote, it's a serious vote?
In post 155, Hopkirk wrote:Yes, it is unreasonable to think that.
UC understands RVS happens. Consequently, he cannot develop a strong scumread on someone just because they engage in RVS.
It could be called 'serious' if you set a really really low bar for calling a vote serious, but I(/anyone reasonable) would set the bar significantly above that.
In post 157, Hopkirk wrote:The bar in question is my and your perspectives, not UCV's.
'Serious' could either mean 'not random' or 'A top scumread as of now' or 'I would be happy to end the day with a lynch right now'. Where do you set the bar?
In post 161, Katyusha wrote:My first impression was that the vote wasn’t serious but n_m pointed out in context that it could be serious - after rereading it I thought that it was more likely UCV thought that was actually scummy

The bar in general, or at least for me, for a serious vote is one you can defend as voting for something scummy - so if UCV legitimately is seeing scum motive then finding out why is useful for reading him, even if you personally think the vote is arbitrary


sheep can you reread through the parts i selected in the spoiler for me and answer my question again? if you still the feel same way then can you elaborate on why
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 am

Post by Hopkirk »

UC is completely null for me you know right?
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:01 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

lol. if sergtacos is town, you would have gotten something more visceral than a gut read. that's what im saying.
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