Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

I don't hold stock in meta arguments in the first place, as I've mentioned over... and over... and over...

Because almost every single person who uses meta arguments has no idea how to properly interpret meta.

I haven't personally looked at the meta arguments for nacho being scum, but I imagine they're all shit, and nacho pretty clearly described some reasons they could very well all be shit.

Whether or not nacho is scum, you're going to have to show that what nacho said about Andrius's meta is wrong if you want to push a lynch through based on meta reasons.


tl;dr Fuck meta

[Aj The Epic]

Really, out of that list, though, the only person I have any minor issues with is Bro, nick, and Venmar... Bro's a nullscum read, but nick is a scum read after we clear the other obvious scum out. Venmar had some bad posts recently that I'll quote here really quick.

Riiiiiiiiiiight also Mala is town #837

So, remember this post when Mala flips scum.

Dunnnnnn tell me what to do... i'm sleeeephy as fuck atm

My scumreads are mastin and ftl, maybe nick.

Andrius should be lynched sometime not today, maybe tomorrow. I think Mastin should go first.

Verify Mastin town (that associative tell I'm detailing through right now) and Venmar as scum there. I didn't see much in the way of case with Venmar.

We should be lynching Mastin

Same as above, simple reinforcement to my associative.

^ bad vote right now
^ also probably town

vote mastin

( rach i never wanted to lynch you in this game, just didn't think you were all that town until recently )

And the nail in the coffin for Venmar. Calls Rach town, says Andy bad vote 'right now', still wants the mastin case.

So as we go:
Venmar, Mala, Rach scum by association
FTL, Mastin, verified townies.

P-edit: Mollie: Trust us. Thezmon and I being on the same trail is a general definite good sign.

[zMuffinMan]

for andrius being scum*

[Aj The Epic]

("That list" being Rach's reads that were put together by thezmon. I went and watched the Brown's replay inbetween starting and finishing).

[nickthename]

I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though

Why not?

Rach hasn't provided much content at all today, her reads sit on the fence so hard it's ver difficult to tell what she thinks of anyone. However, she has promised better reads and commentary day 2. I agree that her behavior today has been scummy, but hear me out.

Assume for the sake of argument that she doesn't provide any useful content during the rest of Day 1, which I think is a fairly passable assumption considering her current behavior.
During day 2, if she still fails to provide any useful content, we lynch her.
If she does provide useful content day 2, we should be able to use that content to get a more accurate read on her. If we decide she's town, we avoid a mislynch. If scum, we still lynch her, but now we have her better reads to use against her partners.

---

It's plainly obvious to me that a mac lynch isn't going to happen, so i'm in favor of a mastin lynch. His reads look very artificial, mimicking popular town ideas without providing any decent reasons, and his posts are largely useless and fluffy, either in the form of talking about how towny he is, talking about how he has secret reads he won't tell us, or talking about how he's lying about how confident he is. This comes accross to me as scum trying to look engaged while lacking any real scumhunting.

As to Andy, I need to Iso him again, if anyone could post a non-meta based case against him, that would be nice.

[thezmon221]

P-edit: Mollie: Trust us. Thezmon and I being on the same trail is a general definite good sign.

^ I am thezmon221, and I approve this message.

I'm not too set on Venmar, but when Rach flips scum I'll look at his posts more and determine to myself if his PGO really is just a gambit. His continual mastin push is weird, though. We're going to have to dig a bit more through some of her scum meta of reads lists to really determine if Cabd is right in the meta (because right now she's 1-1), but with no multiball, there's probably at least 2 scum in her list of people. I'm convinced at this point Mastin is town. What I do know is, I want Rach lynched. Aj, care to join the wagon, and then we can go after Mala tomorrow?

[thezmon221]

@nick: Read my post 1490 (and preferably 1430, since that's the in-depth version) please and thank you.

I also think you're wrong on mastin, with all due respect. I think he truly is struggling to get a game going, and is having a short stride right now. I have a good amount of confidence that he will pick it up, though, after we get flips. A mastin lynch isn't in our best interest today.

The other thing to think about, is that with a Rach lynch, we DO get a decent amount of information. When she's scum, Aj, TF and I are already working on associations and such, and actually have some pretty good leads, but need a tad bit of meta of her to double check our answers. In the offshoot she's town, though, then we can take a look at the people on both the Andy and the Rach wagons, and determine whether the Andy wagon was legitimate and the Rach wagon was a counter (which it's probably not, since I'm town and a ton of people I see on the wagon are probs town). So, we get to do wagon analysis on both wagons and have a ton of information from there.

That's to add in with the fact that we have 1500 posts of content anyways.

[zMuffinMan]

Rach hasn't provided much content at all today, her reads sit on the fence so hard it's ver difficult to tell what she thinks of anyone.

You realise that interaction tells can be derived not only from what she says (or doesn't say) about people, but what other people say (or don't say) about her, right?

However, she has promised better reads and commentary day 2.

I imagine everyone can promise that. Do we just not lynch anyone today?

During day 2, if she still fails to provide any useful content, we lynch her.

I have a better idea. Let's push the deadline for her providing "useful" content to D1. Then do the same.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Rach is scum because...

Plzplzplz back off Rach for now and help us lynch Andy. Mollie and I will sort out Rach as soon as possible; I think we have conflicting feelings on the slot, which always leads to SuperHappyFunTimes

^TM

during the night phase back-and-forth.

I might, if it wasn't a largely meta case. Can you sell a case to me that isn't based around meta? Because I feel really good about Rach right about now.

Andy's response to being told that his wall post(s) were largely fluff was to go through line by line on everything "that could be considered fluff" and deny vehemently. That is not a town reaction, my friend. Go back and check if you want; he even said his "Stay Calm Andy Is Here" image wasn't fluff because "it let people know I was here"

Your reason for thinking Andrius is scum is entirely meta reasons, right?

My

reasons aren't meta. I think his reactions to being called out are over the top and scummy. But for what it's worth, I feel Mollie + Ffery agreeing on meta is pretty damning, regardless of what Nacho says.

[Venmar]

I catch Rach scum in Xenoblade and now when I think she's town in this game you guys think my skills on reading her are shit? LOL YOU GUYS FUNNY.

I've been playing a lot of video games lately... MS seemed to drop from my priority list for a day or two. I'll read up one second.

[Trust Fund]

We're going to have to dig a bit more through some of her scum meta of reads lists to really determine if Cabd is right in the meta (because right now she's 1-1), but with no multiball, there's probably at least 2 scum in her list of people.

She did it in popcorn game as well: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27202


Will pull more scumgames, sit tight.

[Venmar]

Are you high? What could Rach have possibly done

"recently" to make her "never lynching you" level town?

- Bolded is a misrep, i didn't say she was that strong of a town.
- Reads list is in in line with her town meta, plus i got good feelings from it even if you guys think the reads themselves sucked.

Gonna do these kind of posts as I read up, respond to what i want.

[Venmar]

Look again I have Andy as leaning scum

Seriously Des what will you do

if

I flip town? Who will you look at then?

I admitted my reads suck, but it is early. A lot of the pages here really are more noise than signal which means it takes a while to sort out the wheat from the chaff duh.

I rely a lot on Meta especially if I have not played a bunch of games with someone, which is why I was asking for links so I can skim through and see if I can get a better handle on some of the other players.

@bolded slipslipslipslip

Straaaaaaaaawman

[Venmar]

The amount of expectation you guys have for Rach in this game is retarded, HOW are you guys using this to justify your scumreads, its pathetic.

[Aj The Epic]

Aj, care to join the wagon, and then we can go after Mala tomorrow?

I just switched a page or so ago. Ghostlin and I aren't enough votes to lynch Mala.

P-edit: Could say the same about the amount of information on your Mastin push. Justification that way is probably much worse.

[notscience]

What really makes me laugh is they think they'll get enough votes on Rach to lynch her

[Venmar]

gotta love how everyone is ignoring our conf town.

Seriously

you guys are the best.

cuddle with the IC much?

[zMuffinMan]

I think his reactions to being called out are over the top and scummy.

OK. Then your read on Andrius is largely in line with the one I stated I had with Andrius earlier in the game, and I don't think that's enough to lynch him over right now. At least not in comparison to reasons I can think of for lynching others.

But for what it's worth, I feel Mollie + Ffery agreeing on meta is pretty damning, regardless of what Nacho says.

OK. I don't think you'll be able to convince me of this, ever. Although I do want to hear a detailed analysis of Andrius's scum meta and Andrius's town meta and why he is apparently playing to his scum meta. Just linking games and saying, "oh there are similarities here!" is not a reason to think he's scum unless he never does it as town.

If you (or your other head or whoever else) can show me why what Andrius is doing here is never done by him as town, then I'd consider dropping the RM wagon for Andrius, but I highly doubt that's possible because I highly doubt they're properly interpreting the meta. I don't mean any offense here, but I'm 99% sure I'm right about this. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Or I guess people can ignore me and continue claiming this is his scum meta. Seems to have worked so far. *shrug*

[Nachomamma8]

hey venmar are you gonna vote skull or...?

[Venmar]

P-edit: Could say the same about the amount of information on your Mastin push. Justification that way is probably much worse.

- You kind of admitted your Rach wagon is shit right there but ok

[Venmar]

Thezmons #1430 is probably a nice example of why we should not be lynching Rachmaria

[Venmar]

his opening is obviously different from Xenoblade and MyLo.
i'm not even more than normally confident Andy is town (haven't put my time in yet), but the cases I've skimmed so

far aren't looking for the right things.

The insult thing is a great aspect of his meta but you might be misinterpreting some of his insults.

Are you scum with Andy or something

[Venmar]

^ did make me cringe about Nacho

but so far Nacho looks pretty town IMO

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Although I do want to hear a detailed analysis of Andrius's scum meta and Andrius's town meta and why he is apparently playing to his scum meta. Just linking games and saying, "oh there are similarities here!" is not a reason to think he's scum unless he never does it as town.

Not sure if you will or will not get more out of them. They're both

very

quiet about the intricacies of their meta. They have spreadsheets on players for tells both ways.

[Venmar]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Andy

I can see where people are coming from wrt to the differences between Andy here and xeno and I think we need to hear more from him in that aspect.

and also nacho why aren't you doing anything substantial?

you might be scum