Mafiascum.net

I'd say he townread one of his buddies because he wanted them to be the HoH. I just can't see why he would vote Toog in his first post at random unless there was an underlying scum strategy.

I think Toog votes Minions.

In post 1185, Imperium wrote:

In post 965, Toogeloo wrote: A quick note for Tammy regarding meta: I felt that you would suspect me based on meta for several reasons. First, I am lazy as scum but put a ton of effort into my town games in general. Second, I know you think of Empire's meta-case on me as flawless and try to go by it to determine my affiliation as evidenced by your read on me in Swagtown. I don't think you realize that Empire's case was not comprehensive enough to cover for how I play as scum. It is a little bit simplistic because he assumes I never tunnel players as town and I am always uncertain where I am usually a lot more certain as scum. The fact that he is wrong is proven when he believes that I am scum in Rarefaction II in the dead thread where he was spectating. I did spend an inordinate amount of time tunneling.

In this game, I've mostly been tunneling Bulbazak for a large portion of the later game. When you claimed that I was scum, I sort of had a feeling that I knew where you were coming from. But I think you should look at games we've played together instead of relying on cases made by other players. (If you already have, great). I can explain the town motivation behind all of my posting on a meta-basis if you want but first I need to know what it is that you feel off about my posts which is why I was asking you to explain your suspicions.

The tunneling issue is not close to an issue I'm having. I just went and read the dead qt of the game you're talking about, and I'm not seeing where empire was mistakenly reading you as scum. He was arguing that your meta case on Tierce was 10000% off, but he didn't argue for you being scum. And I think that the argument against his case is a bit simplistic. I know that he doesn't think you don't tunnel as town, because when we were all playing in Black Flag, and I was worried about you guys and you not posting, he linked me to a game in which you were playing where you were trying to get your scum read lynched, by tunneling quite hard, near deadline as a reason for why you weren't posting in our game.

Also, while I do take empire's case into consideration, I'm not completely beholden to anything. So, let's just say even if empire was in the dead qt arguing for you being scum in that game, I was arguing for you being pretty strong town, and yes, in empire's normal I read empire's case against you to help me sort out the read on you, I still read you as town pretty early on.

But here is part of my problem. In this reads post, you mention doing "tons of meta" on Rachmarie and conclude that this is how she behaves as town. But you've been pushing bulbazack as scum but you haven't done that research. You really haven't been that inquisitive towards the people that you are suspecting, nor are you doing the research that I associate with you. You are playing against the empire scum case in that you are displaying a wilingness to rethink your reads, which I really like, but your meta reads tend to be a bit more in depth, and you tend to be a bit more inquisitive to the people you suspect, and you're not really doing any of this.

Earlier in the game, Tammy flat out called F-16 scum citing only "meta" at the time. Before she expands upon it, F-16 quickly defends himself in the above quoted quote. Tammy then responds with the quote, essentially saying that F-16 isn't doing much legwork for his scum reads.

Upon re-isolating F-16, he is rather active, but most of it is general fluff and blanket statements. When he does post his reads, he often times just says "These are my reads." I started off as a possible scum read (can't be too sure because he never out and out calls me scum), and then starts calling me town because of my town slips, my interactions with scum, and their interactions with me and cites posts and reasonings. So why all the legwork for town reads, but being very non-committal or doing the offensive legwork for scum reads? For 98% of F-16's iso, his general vibe is that of just going with the flow of the mob mentality, trying to make his presence known through multiple posts, but not trying to take any reigns and direct town.


After my investigation he starts pushing the Godfather thing. I stated I didn't like it the moment it happened, and I believe he was the first to mention it because it's the one that caught my eye first and I called him on it.

In post 1889, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I am not going to assume scum cop either. If there is a scum cop, I'll go stuff the scum cop in a plate, go find Voided and throw it at him. The only power role we seemed to have is a cop. Without it, it is an all-vanilla town with scum that can fuck with us by posting confirmable results. A GF on the other hand makes perfect sense and it would be very OP'd to have a town cop without a GF. You'll just have to figure out which of me or Toog are the GF.

Here we have him pushing Godfather (as we already knew he would) balance with a Town Cop. Which I would agree with, if you were a real Cop. You are Aesthetic and limited to two use, and had we not utilized your power through organization prior to you using it, it's possible you could have scanned someone who was going to get lynched anyways. You are a very, very, weak cop. Godfather does not to be in this setup to balance your form of Cop. But interestingly he does say that you (Minions) need to decide which of us is the godfather (not scum, but godfather), which also make me wonder why he would say this several days prior:

In post 1666, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Just because scum likely have a GF doesn't mean Toog has to be that GF. Titus could be as well. The possibility of scum-GF would simply put Toog on the same level as you, me, and Titus.

And yet continue to push me as scum godfather. I should be on the same level as everyone since my scan should be a non-factor in any assumption of godfatherness. Point being, there can be no concrete reasoning as push godfather paranoia repeatedly, and yet it's been the basis of a lot of his posts since the cop scan was revealed.



Then there are these:
(YESTERDAY)

In post 1722, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:The fact that scum didn't kill Minions shows that either 1) Minions is scum, or 2) Scum weren't afraid of Minion's abilities. Both point towards one of Toog/Minions being scum. I lean towards Minons because the decision to investigate Toog didn't come from scum at all. I think it is too much of a co-incidence to investigate the GF. Rather, I believe that the abilities that scum have are the abilities that Minions has been given.

I fully 100% trust that you are town. If you are perceptive enough to realize that I am town as well, we can win the game together.

(AFTER MY SCAN REVEAL)

In post 1266, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:On the other hand, if Minions is town, the only reason that I can see scum not shooting them is if a) they have a godfather or b) they think they can get Minions lynched. But b is unlikely once they reveal they have additional kills which legitimizes Minions role and reduces the likelihood of it being game-breaking. I am leaning towards mafia having a godfather.

This is the post I disliked because it was the first real attempt to start discrediting scans without actually calling me scum right away. I think it's more important that he thinks scum would have shot Minions before he could clear a townie, but apparently it's not that important to kill Minions before he's about to condemn a scum?



Last thing I want to say about F-16 is that the last game day at Final 4, he immediately launched into attacking me (Toog) first, and then tried to get Minions lynched as well. He stated he absolutely wanted BBmolla in the final 3:

In post 1730, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

In post 1728, Minions wrote:I'm happy to be put up. But PoE suggests toog is the voter and that leaves bbmolla to be made HoH

While I am pretty sure both Toog and BBMolla are town, I'd rather Toog be made HoH. I trust BBMolla more in LYLO situations. (I read the Newbie game where Bulbazak came in with a case against him, and he later voted Bulbazak in LYLO as part of meta'ing Bulb and Molla). I am pretty sure on this actually.

Which instantly suggests knowing we were going to be in LyLo if Minions is voted out. He obviously felt his opening barrage needed to get one of the "confirmed town" lynched so he had a shot against BBmolla today. When it became obvious that Minions and I weren't budging, he immediately flipped on molla despite Minions and I being the ones to do most the legwork trying to formulate a case on molla.



F-16 posts today have been largely pandering to you (Minions). Since I am less active, he is trying to get in your ear more and try to make you doubt yourself by reiterating paranoia repeatedly.

That's kinda weak. Is that all you have? I am changing my mind constantly about who the scum are. So scummy.

The above is a scum-case i.e. a kind of case scum push to get a townie mislynched. I'll kill it when I find a block of time.

So apparently my case is worse than the, "Toog is godfather because it has to be in the setup," case.

In post 1904, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:That's kinda weak. Is that all you have? I am changing my mind constantly about who the scum are. So scummy.

And for the record, that isn't what my case was at all, but I eagerly await seeing your actual case on me and you destroying mine.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote: Upon re-isolating F-16, he is rather active, but most of it is general fluff and blanket statements. When he does post his reads, he often times just says "These are my reads." I started off as a possible scum read (can't be too sure because he never out and out calls me scum), and then starts calling me town because of my town slips, my interactions with scum, and their interactions with me and cites posts and reasonings.

So why all the legwork for town reads, but being very non-committal or doing the offensive legwork for scum reads?

For 98% of F-16's iso, his general vibe is that of just going with the flow of the mob mentality, trying to make his presence known through multiple posts, but not trying to take any reigns and direct town.

Toog saying that I am not doing legwork for scumreads is more of an attack on my playstyle rather than affiliation. I hunt for town more than scum. A read-through of my other games show this to be the case. I find town a lot more easily and once I do, I deduce that most of the remaining players are scum. Considering the way I play this game, an accusation of "not doing legwork" for my scumreads is inaccurate. The legwork I do for my townreads is , even more so in my older games. In this game, ISO me to see how I expand into huge meta-analysis of two players both of whom I conclude are town. In this game (which Tammy was also in), I write an extremely detailed analysis of implosion explaining why he is town. Look at my post under the spoiler. I have cut down on the amount of fluff I post (my case on Titus being town is a lot more succint), but the common theme remains that I spend lots of time explaining my townreads. In this more recent game for instance, see my explanation for why this player is town which like my read on Titus is shorter but still very detailed. I rarely post cases for why people are scum because I work off of POE.

The rest of Toog's post also pushes on playstyle rather than affiliation. Does every town player you know "take the reins" and direct the town? Imperium has done that when they were alive - but that is because they were Imperium, not because they were town. The rest of the town did not make the same attempts. Whether you lead the town depends on the kind of player you are. Even so, I did push hard for the Bulbazak lynch. Imperium FOSsed me for it. Molla read him as town for his frustration but I didn't back down until I genuinely started having doubts. Even after that, I retracted my townread and continued going after him. Bulbazak is a strong player. It would have been pointless to bus him because it would have been an easier scum win had Bulb been alive.

Tammy did call me scum but she retracted it quickly. She is one of the few players who reads me with 100% accuracy in all the games we played (probably 5-6 by now). She sometimes tends to accuse me incorrectly but is able to come around soon and sort me relatively well. That Toog continues pulling up her initial read while failing to note that she rescinded her scumread is something to consider.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:

I should be on the same level as everyone since my scan should be a non-factor in any assumption of godfatherness.

Point being, there can be no concrete reasoning as push godfather paranoia repeatedly, and yet it's been the basis of a lot of his posts since the cop scan was revealed.

While this is true, note that Toog has asked to be scanned where as I have not. I didn't care whether I was scanned or not while Toog has insisted that an investigation be used on him. This alone makes it far more likely that he is the godfather than me. Town has little reason to ask for a scan but a scan of the godfather would potentially be game winning.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:You are a very, very, weak cop. Godfather does not need to be in this setup to balance your form of Cop.

I strongly disagree. We know now that the scum only have 2 kills - TOTAL. If they had another, they would have used it a LONG while ago today and won the game already. Here you sit with a vote on you and no kill occurs. It is obvious that the scum's kills are spent. Two was the maximum. Now think about your role. Let's say you confirm two players as town. This essentially FORCES the scum to kill two of either you or the confirmed townies. Their kills are directed. They cannot kill their biggest threats. It makes no sense to have a cop that can confirm two townies and give the scum two kills to eliminate those townies. And if they kill someone else, town can simply lynch everyone but you three and win the game with no effort. There needs to be a mechanism to mess with that - to ensure that town are required to scumhunt in order to win. That mechanism is the godfather. Either Toog or I are the GF. The difference is that I never asked to be scanned, neither did I deny that a GF exists. Toog has been unreasonably pushing the idea that a GF may not exist. He admits that its existence should put both of us on the same level, yet FOSses me for saying that a godfather exists. Your role isn't weak. This is a nightless game. Your role without a GF is almost game breaking.

Toog in his case continues to make me look bad because I consistently speculated about the existence of a godfather. I strongly believe that I was right in my speculation. It was reasonable to consider the GF possibility because of the game breaking scenario I mentioned earlier, rather than an attempt to "discredit" the scan on Toog.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:He stated he absolutely wanted BBmolla in the final 3. He obviously felt his opening barrage needed to get one of the "confirmed town" lynched so he had a shot against BBmolla today. When it became obvious that Minions and I weren't budging,

he immediately flipped on molla

despite Minions and I being the ones to do most the legwork trying to formulate a case on molla.

My flip on Molla looks "bad" at first glance but I was convinced about the case on him. If I were scum, my best strategy would have been to tell Molla to trust me and vote him for HoH. I never would have flipped and put myself in a position where I had to fight against a confirmed townie - because I'd know that I would likely be next. The reason I flipped was that your case convinced me. I also didn't like him backtracking against Bulbazak. I genuinely believed that he was scum - and was wrong yet again. Toog claims to have done the "legwork" for Molla which is a lie. Nearly all the legwork to analyze Molla's and my affiliation had been done by you.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:F-16 posts today have been largely pandering to you (Minions). Since I am less active, he is trying to get in your ear more and try to make you doubt yourself by reiterating paranoia repeatedly.

This is an appeal to fear. My point about the GF is solid. Saying I am "in your ear" is bullshit. "Re-iterating paranoia" is meaningless considering his reasoning for why there isn't a GF falls flat. There is a GF. Toog is far more likely to be it. He wanted to be scanned. He wanted to be cleared. I never showed the slightest inclination, it is not something I cared about.

Note how Toog accuses me of not persuing my scumreads while he laid back and watched me go up against Desperado, then Titus. I refuted their arguments, got heat for it, defended myself and have been in the thick of things all the while being wrong because of the way this setup was designed. Toog as the "confirmed town" scum happily sat back to watch the fireworks.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

Response to Toog

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote: Upon re-isolating F-16, he is rather active, but most of it is general fluff and blanket statements. When he does post his reads, he often times just says "These are my reads." I started off as a possible scum read (can't be too sure because he never out and out calls me scum), and then starts calling me town because of my town slips, my interactions with scum, and their interactions with me and cites posts and reasonings.

So why all the legwork for town reads, but being very non-committal or doing the offensive legwork for scum reads?

For 98% of F-16's iso, his general vibe is that of just going with the flow of the mob mentality, trying to make his presence known through multiple posts, but not trying to take any reigns and direct town.

Toog saying that I am not doing legwork for scumreads is more of an attack on my playstyle rather than affiliation. I hunt for town more than scum. A read-through of my other games show this to be the case. I find town a lot more easily and once I do, I deduce that most of the remaining players are scum. Considering the way I play this game, an accusation of "not doing legwork" for my scumreads is inaccurate. The legwork I do for my townreads is

intense

, even more so in my older games. In this game, ISO me to see how I expand into huge meta-analysis of two players both of whom I conclude are town. In this game (which Tammy was also in), I write an extremely detailed analysis of implosion explaining why he is town. Look at my post under the spoiler. I have cut down on the amount of fluff I post (my case on Titus being town is a lot more succint), but the common theme remains that I spend lots of time explaining my townreads. In this more recent game for instance, see my explanation for why this player is town which like my read on Titus is shorter but still very detailed. I rarely post cases for why people are scum because I work off of POE.

The rest of Toog's post also pushes on playstyle rather than affiliation. Does every town player you know "take the reins" and direct the town? Imperium has done that when they were alive - but that is because they were Imperium, not because they were town. The rest of the town did not make the same attempts. Whether you lead the town depends on the kind of player you are. Even so, I did push hard for the Bulbazak lynch. Imperium FOSsed me for it. Molla read him as town for his frustration but I didn't back down until I genuinely started having doubts. Even after that, I retracted my townread and continued going after him. Bulbazak is a strong player. It would have been pointless to bus him because it would have been an easier scum win had Bulb been alive.

Tammy did call me scum but she retracted it quickly. She is one of the few players who reads me with 100% accuracy in all the games we played (probably 5-6 by now). She sometimes tends to accuse me incorrectly but is able to come around soon and sort me relatively well. That Toog continues pulling up her initial read while failing to note that she rescinded her scumread is something to consider.

It's the lack of drive to get your suspect lynched that is the condemning part. You followed the flow of the town mob without even attempting to push lynches you thought were good. I used Tammy's opinion to showcase that this was something someone else had noticed as well. Tammy's response wasn't the case itself, but just showing there is scuminess to the way you were playing.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:

I should be on the same level as everyone since my scan should be a non-factor in any assumption of godfatherness.

Point being, there can be no concrete reasoning as push godfather paranoia repeatedly, and yet it's been the basis of a lot of his posts since the cop scan was revealed.

While this is true, note that Toog has asked to be scanned where as I have not. I didn't care whether I was scanned or not while Toog has insisted that an investigation be used on him. This alone makes it far more likely that he is the godfather than me. Town has little reason to ask for a scan but a scan of the godfather would potentially be game winning.

But again, there is no reason to believe a Godfather exists in the setup, and your sole case still comes down to godfather fear mongering.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:You are a very, very, weak cop. Godfather does not need to be in this setup to balance your form of Cop.

I strongly disagree. We know now that the scum only have 2 kills - TOTAL. If they had another, they would have used it a LONG while ago today and won the game already. Here you sit with a vote on you and no kill occurs. It is obvious that the scum's kills are spent. Two was the maximum. Now think about your role. Let's say you confirm two players as town. This essentially FORCES the scum to kill two of either you or the confirmed townies. Their kills are directed. They cannot kill their biggest threats. It makes no sense to have a cop that can confirm two townies and give the scum two kills to eliminate those townies. And if they kill someone else, town can simply lynch everyone but you three and win the game with no effort. There needs to be a mechanism to mess with that - to ensure that town are required to scumhunt in order to win. That mechanism is the godfather. Either Toog or I are the GF. The difference is that I never asked to be scanned, neither did I deny that a GF exists. Toog has been unreasonably pushing the idea that a GF may not exist. He admits that its existence should put both of us on the same level, yet FOSses me for saying that a godfather exists. Your role isn't weak. This is a nightless game. Your role without a GF is almost game breaking.

Toog in his case continues to make me look bad because I consistently speculated about the existence of a godfather. I strongly believe that I was right in my speculation. It was reasonable to consider the GF possibility because of the game breaking scenario I mentioned earlier, rather than an attempt to "discredit" the scan on Toog.

But you ignore the fact that only because of circumstances were we able to actually leash the scans and use them as a town whole. What would have happened if Minions had used his scan Night 1 on Gnomeo for example? Or the fact that we could have a scum as HoH and the investigation is lied about? It's only because we took control of it early (and you decided to bus Bulba instead of lie) that it became powerful. Bulba was instantly on board with you being HoH and him being scanned, which is an obvious major red flag.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:He stated he absolutely wanted BBmolla in the final 3. He obviously felt his opening barrage needed to get one of the "confirmed town" lynched so he had a shot against BBmolla today. When it became obvious that Minions and I weren't budging,

he immediately flipped on molla

despite Minions and I being the ones to do most the legwork trying to formulate a case on molla.

My flip on Molla looks "bad" at first glance but I was convinced about the case on him. If I were scum, my best strategy would have been to tell Molla to trust me and vote him for HoH. I never would have flipped and put myself in a position where I had to fight against a confirmed townie - because I'd know that I would likely be next. The reason I flipped was that your case convinced me. I also didn't like him backtracking against Bulbazak. I genuinely believed that he was scum - and was wrong yet again. Toog claims to have done the "legwork" for Molla which is a lie. Nearly all the legwork to analyze Molla's and my affiliation had been done by you.

Except you couldn't. Minions and I were already solid for putting both you and molla on the block. There was no way molla was going to get the votes for HoH, so you had to do the only thing you could do and side with Minions and I.

In post 1903, Toogeloo wrote:F-16 posts today have been largely pandering to you (Minions). Since I am less active, he is trying to get in your ear more and try to make you doubt yourself by reiterating paranoia repeatedly.

This is an appeal to fear. My point about the GF is solid. Saying I am "in your ear" is bullshit. "Re-iterating paranoia" is meaningless considering his reasoning for why there isn't a GF falls flat. There is a GF. Toog is far more likely to be it. He wanted to be scanned. He wanted to be cleared. I never showed the slightest inclination, it is not something I cared about.

Note how Toog accuses me of not persuing my scumreads while he laid back and watched me go up against Desperado, then Titus. I refuted their arguments, got heat for it, defended myself and have been in the thick of things all the while being wrong because of the way this setup was designed. Toog as the "confirmed town" scum happily sat back to watch the fireworks.

And yet still, you have yet to make a scum case on me other than, "He has to be godfather because it has to be in the setup," (which it doesn't).

I'll just respond to the relevant points unless Minions wants anything else responded to since it is basically a rehash. I think I presented the rest of my case well enough that Toog's response was too weak to counter it.

Bulba was instantly on board with you being HoH and him being scanned, which is an obvious major red flag.

I agree that it looks bad. I can't explain his actions and it would be a stretch to assume that he was trying to make me look guilty through associative tells. I don't know why he voted me - perhaps he didn't think that others would seriously make me HoH because Toog suggested it as : http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5371626
But once the town votes started flowing in, Toog and Bulba couldn't just backtrack and suggest a different plan for fear of outing themselves.

Weigh this against the fact that if I confirmed Bulbazak, he would share the same status as Toog, i.e. he probably would have been golden until LYLO. Rach, KBW, Desp, Titus - they would have been mislynched. Even if I was lynched and flipped scum, it wouldn't automatically implicate Bulb - after all, scum-me could have confirmed a townie. There is no disadvantage here.

Bussing in a nightless is a TERRIBLE strategy since it increases the number of mislynches scum need in order to win. If I confirmed Bulb, we would have reached LYLO faster with one scum as confirmed town. Confirming him was an infinitely more advantageous strategy than bussing him - and

Also, weigh it against the likelihood of a GF and Toog asking to be investigated while I didn't. My behavior makes no sense as a GF and it is unlikely I could have forseen a situation like this one and adapted my behavior just so I could say this.

Just posting to say I have acknowledged both of your posts but I want to give them full focus to digest.

What is clear to me is whichever of you is the final scum you are both very good at both making cases and appearing town. This should be cut and dry but I have tried to be as fair minded as possible.

Yes I have my opinions, and the most ridiculous part if this setup is right here whereby two of us have to agree on the HoH. Basically scum can hold this game to ransom until they see the game is swaying in their favour.

I still have one more interaction analysis to do (busy weekend) but also want to assess the points you have both raised. So bear with me.

And as for the last kill, I thought about this over the weekend, we wouldn't have had this day phase if one kill remained because it roils have been impossible for scum to lose with that in the kitty.

Minions, if deadline hits, we don't need a majority for HoH. Scum can't "hold the game at ransom."

Same reasoning applies for why scum-me could have voted BBMolla quickly and left my vote there if I wanted. Unless Molla changed his mind, Toog's sole vote wouldn't make you the HoH. It required me to accept you as HoH.

Once again the voice of reason F16. And I have been using the time as productively as I can. I have fiished the final analysis, but its a bit of a waste of time in the end...

First its Peacebringer:
Has a civil discussion about the potential setup if he was in charge with blackberry. Seems to use this to hide behind setup talk for a few posts.

Mocks toogeloos comment about not knowing who is lying and who isn’t on vote revealing.

Votes toogeloo for HoH. This ties with gnomeos vote. So doesn’t look good for toog at face value since both were scum, but then toog wasn’t seemingly interested in either for scum at the time, so possible buddying move.

Then clearly fluff posts more while ‘tangoing’ with BBmolla, never actually addressing anything serious. Then switches off toog for jake.
Then mocks the game for lack of activity... as yet he has done minimal. Again hides behind this for a few posts rather than actively dojng anything.

AtE crap. Then finally another exchange with one of us when he returns to Toog to claim he ‘will play this game out’... This is post 493.
A tussle with bulbazak which even back then looked half hearted.
523 – votes imperium this time.
526 – votes properly with an unvote preceding it.
540 – oh look, walks away from the game. It hasn’t finished has it? This is the second game ive seen him replace out after very little input and turned out to be scum, guess thats his meta. :p

And so in comes Iceguy:

First interaction is with F16 and agrees with his comments about if imperium dies we vote in bbmolla.

Only input after this beyond a very brief back anf forth with imperium is to suggest we choose the two people for nomination FOR the HoH.

So thats it, there is very little these two offer from this slot. Absolutely nothing there i can read into beyond PB choosing to sheep on the toog wagon... but he sheeped on about 3-4 wagons and never engaged with the game at all, and iceguy did even less.

A big fat bust. So i will just look at what you two have posted.

You haven't given your Bulbazak analysis yet. I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

I must admit I did more of a summary on bulbazak,

Ok, I looked over bulbazaks interactions. He scum reads and attacks us and toogeloo from day 1. Seems to start having a change of heart on toogeloo around the time he is being talked up for investigation but never quite drops his attacking of us.
F16 isn't interacted with until day 2 but I assume that's when he Replaced in. Blackberry was voted for as HoH by bulbazak on day 1 at one point, yet his interaction with f16 seems mildly suspicious... It's odd.

I will do a more expansive one tomorrow or Wednesday. Then all will be fuller.

Bulbazak's interaction with me only seems "mildly suspicious" because I FOS him hard and don't look back for a very long time. Bulbazak's attempts to buddy Blackberry came a long time before that.

In post 1913, Minions wrote:Once again the voice of reason F16. And I have been using the time as productively as I can. I have fiished the final analysis, but its a bit of a waste of time in the end...

First its Peacebringer:
Has a civil discussion about the potential setup if he was in charge with blackberry. Seems to use this to hide behind setup talk for a few posts.

Mocks toogeloo

s comment about not knowing who is lying and who isn’t on vote revealing.

Votes toogeloo for HoH.

This ties with gnomeos vote. So doesn’t look good for toog at face value since both were scum, but then

toog wasn’t seemingly interested in either for scum at the time,

so possible buddying move.

The bolded strongly indicate buddy-buddy interactions. The underlined is irrelevant because Toog can't vote himself and people had already shown an inclination to trust those who didn't want HoH so Toog might have expected to get it regardless of whether he wanted it or not.

Why would PB mock someone that he intends to buddy?

F-16, you aren't even trying to do your own research. You are trying to use Minions legwork which is like playing a game of telephone.

Peacebringer's "mock" was him laughing at the notion that people would lie about their votes. He wasn't attacking or mocking me at all.


I have come to thinking that it's possible that Bulba was the liar from the Night 1 votes. I think Iceguy was out of the loop when Peacebringer replaced out, F-16 and Bulba were active at that point, so I'm thinking they tried to save Gnomeo and vote for Desperado. When Gnomeo still got lynched, Bulba opted to lie.

Why were the scum so intent on making you the HoH? Have you played with Gnomeo or Peacebringer before?

I don't like the way Toog jumps on Rach for not considering the 4 people she doesn't have townreads on scum. Read the following posts: 343, 346, 351. I find this to be unreasonably pushy. He doesn't push Imperium in the same way when they have no "scumreads" but merely an "everybody else" group in their initial reads list. Imperium did post some reasoning so it is not completely analogous. Still stuck out to me.

Hi guys,

Just to fill you in my low activity has been a direct consequence of my borderline autism leading to bouts of depression at times. I'm overly self aware in my RL activities too so it creates issues which I never want to see spill into games and ruin it for other people.

Please don't take this as an AtE, I just want to be upfront with people who are giving their time to post and my perceived inactivity. I'm feeling a lot better than I have been for a week or so now so will endeavour to return to this ASAP.

Thanks for the patience, I have been keeping track if the deadline so I don't leave us all short of time on any outstanding issues.

Whenever Minions is ready to move on, F-16, you should just hammer. Day has already been long enough, it's evident you aren't really going to iso me and make any kind of case. I'm done trying to defend against the godfather conspiracy. Now it's just a matter of Minions getting his head on straight.

Thinking about just going V/LA for the remainder of the game since there isn't really anything else to say. If you have any questions, ask away, but likely you won't see much more content from me otherwise.