Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I left prism unsorted because I wanted to see what Prism would do D2.

They didn't do much on day 2. Why did you say you had them as town?

[Dunnstral]

Um. I’ll just state that dunnstral’s response, activity/etc are all vastly different to the response they’ve had here.

I started posting at around post 100 and got eliminated at around post 200

I barely had time to address anything and then 2 people voted me at the same time and ended the day

[Dunnstral]

Hell, it probably reinforced zir read.

Yeah? Look at what I was looking at when I pushed them:

Spoiler: That Game

Two players you’re particularly good at reading are Dunn and Math

Appreciate your trust in me nancy <333
im not 100% on this dunn read atm. chances are that it flips scum anyways but i do wish to be 100% certain before shoving the wagon hard.

tbh how about we just vote out dunn and if im wrong (which im probably not), oh well.

Spoiler: This Game

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

i almost want to say i'd rather we leave out ceph today becuase im going to feel bad about dunn regardless of what they flip. becuase if they flip town, my overconfidence killed them and i die the next day so it's just chaining up town eliminations. if they flip scum, i also feel bad because they could've been alive at endgame and played an excellent game which would have been completely shattered by me. sigh ok whatever. im going to iso a couple more times datisi dont accept yet.
if dunn is town, i'd rather leave day 1 than have them leave

[Dunnstral]

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

Hmmm. Maybe I am my own top choice now?

Need sleep, this is as far as I'm getting tonight

Why Myko here (which would kill Enchant)?

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Even if you don't fully buy in to 1601, at the very least it shows that in the merlin game Enchant did indeed accuse Noraa and myself of bussing, which means they very likely went back to that section of the game and reread it. The part where Noraa pushed me. With that fresh in his mind, I asked him multiple times in this game, after the merlin game was over, to produce a read on myself. Responses ranged from "no read" to eventually "mafia" but only after I called them mafia first, and still with no explanation for their read. In fact, they seem to be going out of their way to avoid giving a reason in this game.

[Dunnstral]

can I leave the dance in this phase

Yeah, you can

[Dunnstral]

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

[Dunnstral]

Andante, if you're serious and you're town and plan to leave during the next phase, why do you need to convince us of that?

[Dunnstral]

You are not being accused of breaking rules, but of having an informed position in this game which influenced your decision making in another game. Also, 1613

[Dunnstral]

OK. Why did you not talk about how noraa pushed me in this game after that game ended? Why did you have no read on me until i called you mafia in this game, at which point you came up with an unexplained scumread?

[Dunnstral]

What parts of the game have you read?

What about my play did you not like?

[Dunnstral]

Didn't understand first question.

I'm asking why you don't have anything to say regarding the situation this game where noraa pushed me and called me mafia, considering you saw the same thing happen in the merlin game and people have brought up noraa's belief in their reads a lot in this thread

[Dunnstral]

What made you think that he was intending to leave with Enchant? What I saw was him refuse to answer the question.

Which is one of the posts that bothered me btw

I don't have many secrets, but I can choose to not be predictable. Deal with it.

I think that this is anti-town right now. Can you explain how it isn't?

[Dunnstral]

I don't think town on your place even makes giant posts just to kill me, due it being certainly unnecessary. This battle i lost from start, idk what you want to achieve.

You called me mafia before that happened. What about my posts did you not like at that time?

1. I plainly didn't notice it. Or i forget it, which is more likely.

Really? Because it was dominating the discussion for a large period of the game.

2. I rarely if ever use outside information, so even if i noticed, I probably wouldn't bought it up.

OK, I can accept that.

[Dunnstral]

So you are scumreading me because I made 1412 and you think that I used too many words to explain why I think you are mafia?

[Dunnstral]

Enchant does not do absolutely nothing when they are town. This is how they play as scum. I've also got another thing bothering me about Enchant that I've shared with my hood partner. This phase is 3 days long, does Enchant plan to have read up and have an opinion before Bell makes his choice or not?

You are saying that this portion that talks about you is too wordy and that I am mafia for making this post?

[Dunnstral]

Either way, if you suspect me AND Myko, then pairing with us is unlogical.

Is this at me? I didn't write that I suspected Myko in that post, or in any post really

[Dunnstral]

Good idea, who do you recommend?

[Dunnstral]

The scumreads I had on a lot of players have mellowed out

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Who would Bell have picked as a safer option as mafia?

[Dunnstral]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13344557

and subsequent discussion were probably the biggest thing to happen?

1701 moreso really. I thought it interesting that the first thought was about getting banned, not being called scum. But I could frame it from either allignment, but it's decidedly more devious from scum,while it

looks

like an instant reaction.

I liked these posts. The first because I think that was a good post to link to and it shows that mykonian is thinking about the game. The second I agree with, and I think it is unlikely my initial case was 100% correct. I still think that 1613 and the way Enchant is playing this game gives them a decent chance of being mafia.

[Dunnstral]

LFASDFMADS;FOASDFASDFASDFD BRUH WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IMAGE

Naruto

[Dunnstral]

Do you think Bell is more likely though?

[Dunnstral]

It is true that Mala has called Enchant mafia this phase

[Dunnstral]

Datisi: 4, Dunntisi: 9?

[Dunnstral]

So there's 3 mafia in this game, and I think that Malakittens may be one of them.

I think that Andante may have been blustering earlier

I think that Myko and Bell are both town (controversial?)

Slight paranoia at Ginngie's slot

I've been feeling better about Luke.

Been feeling like fireisredsir has been towny all game.

Cephrir has been pretty middle of the pack. They might just be poe scum if I can't think of a better name

[Dunnstral]

I also want to 'hijack' the day

I want people to consider Luke and I both being town then rereading how day 1 played, keeping an eye on the 3 unpaired ladies (fireisredsir, Datisi, malakittens) as well as Cephrir

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Datisi

[Dunnstral]

No, it's a blank vote with no explanation

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Datisi

Are there words to go with this?

They are a capable player and haven't received a fair amount of scrutiny. Try to imagine both mala and Datisi as mafia during day 1 and think about how that might play out.

[Dunnstral]

They are a capable player and haven't received a fair amount of scrutiny.

do you think a singular naked vote is actually any significant amount of scrutiny?

Not sure if I like how dismissive you seem here before you go on to casing andante. You don't care at all that I'm voting you here?

I think that indicating that I'm willing to vote you out

also like, no i don't really care about what was said or wasn't said in hoods because those things are a breeding ground for crappy pockets, so.

And what do you think about me in our hood? Or am I just that smooth?

[Dunnstral]

My top SRs are myko/Luke/Datisi right now.. ama lets go, what do you want to know?

Why are you not currently voting for any of these names?

What happened to your fire scum read?

it's still there, I'm choosing to ignore it though, the pt has a lot of me quoting stuff fire says and telling ginggie I SR fire.... fun facts!!!

This makes no sense

[Dunnstral]

I think that you have been handwaved away too much and that you are actually capable of being scum in this game. You have surprisingly little stances beyond early in the game where you chose between Noraa and Myself, and chose for Luke to die over Noraa.

I think that if you were mafia, and Malakittens was mafia, day 1 would not have played out in a special, different way.

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think we should vote out today?

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think we should vote out today?

[Dunnstral]

What is Malakitten's read on Datisi?

[Dunnstral]

Dat, what did you think of enchants reply?

1701 moreso really. I thought it interesting that the first thought was about getting banned, not being called scum. But I could frame it from either allignment, but it's decidedly more devious from scum,while it

looks

like an instant reaction.

Going to point to this again and say that I thought my initial case was good but that seeing the way Enchant replied made me not like the case as much.

1611 and 1618 from Luke were both after the case dropped but before Enchant replied.

[Dunnstral]

So wait this Day we vote out a pair, correct? or is it just a player

I'm not understanding your confusion, you commented on voting out Ginngie and Andante earlier, right?

[Dunnstral]

Did you know that you are the only living player in the game who is not townreading me?

[Dunnstral]

What is Malakitten's read on Datisi?

This again and also what has Datisi's read on Malakittens been? Neither has meaningfully prodded at the other

[Dunnstral]

Speaking of which, I am almost certain that Mala is scum now. After not using our PT for a while, she suddenly started posting in there again. Quite specifically trying to talk me out of voting for andante/ginngie, and trying to get me to shift to voting Datisi/Dunn. As such, I don't see the need to keep defending myself, and we can be voted out

VOTE: Luke/Mala

If Mala flips scum, always kill Andante/Ginngie next - and never flip datisi/Dunn.

It was done in such a way that I am less clear which of Andante/Ginngie would be Mala's partner, so it should be the full pair that is flipped, and not done via dance partner trading imo.

Myko's posts have been heavy misreps, and I would like for the next person who needs a new dance partner to take his spot with Bell.

Thanks

I guess I’d just like to hear how confident you are in your scum reads.

If Mala flips scum, I am extremely confident that one of Andante/Ginngie are scum with her.

If Mala flips town, then I am back down to just scum reading both slots, but not to that same level.

Myko I am pretty confident in regardless tbh. Higher then the A/G pairing with a town mala, but lower then the two with a scum mala.

I don't think that his positioning comes from town.

I also noticed early on that Myko made a comment that could have been aimed to diffuse the me v ginngie 1v1 - which I get if his partners are Andante/Mala lol.

I'm not confident that one of Andante/Ginngie are mafia based on Malakittens. Take note that they knew Lukewarm was not townreading them and that I had been prodding them about their reads and relation to Datisi. Unfortunately Lukewarm does not make it clear exactly when Mala brought this up, but I'm assuming I last talked to Malakittens.

I think that Andante/Ginngie might be a miselimination based on the way they are being angled towards, and because if Datisi is mafia then they have also been pushing in that direction

[Dunnstral]

ok so ive been sus of lukewarm for a bit. i talked about this in the hood a little but not in the thread cause i wanted to watch and see how he started this phase, but some of his reads feel like they could be politically chosen. meaning that he is choosing reads based on what benefits him and then coming up with ways to justify them rather than a natural progression of reasons informing the reads. examples:

1) his scumread on myko. this was what triggered me to think this in the first place. i thought 1693 was strange bc i didn't think it was a point that only applied to myko, but he was using it as a reason to scumread him. i think when people are selective like that, usually they are either tunneled/confbiased, or they're being political in their read choices. since there is a clear benefit to luke to scumread myko, i feel like it could be a sign of it being political. the benefit is that this was before bell broke up the pairing, and enchant/myko was a pairing that was likely to gather some votes and probably the highest chance at being the lim. i think there is enough suspicion of luke/mala out there that scum luke would want to make sure he is positioned to vote the other pairing that will be gathering votes.

2) similarly, scumreading enchant and reinforcing that read by saying dunn's case was really good in 1611, and 1618. easier in hindsight but i said this before the enchant flip anyway, that i think the case was towny but not necessarily that convincing. same benefit as the myko suspicion.

3) once the myko/enchant pairing is no more, he has transitioned to andante/ginngie, which is probably the new likely pairing to be gathering a lot of votes. he's expressed suspicion there before, so it's not out of nowhere, but there is a clear benefit to him switching his focus there now

4) the dunn scumread when they were two of the more likely to be left behind (along with noraa). the scumread went away once that phase was over. benefit is obvious, but it is also understandable, since i had a similar progression on dunn

5) the datisi townread. i think this read is p weakly supported and idk why he would be townreading datisi here. the progression is also questionable, with having him in null (and less towny than 6 other names) in 867, but in 2032 and 2042 he says that the strong townread came from the post sequence starting around 625, which is well before 867. the scum benefit is that he now strongly townreads dunn and so it's a read that he can more safely commit to making since he's likely not going to vote that pairing


i know that is a lot of words for me to then say that i don't feel super strongly that this is scum, but... that's how it is. basically, it's hard to criticize his reads and progressions, bc i think luke is the kind of player who as scum will be careful to make sure that they are all well-justified and supported through his play. and a lot of these reads are ones that i agree with. so on one hand, i naturally want to see it as town. but on the other hand, i can see clear potential scum motivation behind the way that his reads are evolving and shifting and which ones he is choosing to focus on at what times, and it has come up enough that i think this is more likely to be scum luke. mala is also null at best so this is my preferred vote today

VOTE: Luke+mala

I liked this case on Lukewarm but didn't agree with it. Don't think bussing is impossible here but feel good about this overall.

[Dunnstral]

At the start of my neighborhood after the end of day 1 I say that I want to vote Andante, Enchant, and Malakittens.

Datisi says they also suspect Andante and ask about my read Enchant.

[Dunnstral]

Not sure I believe that they don't realize it's night phase

[Dunnstral]

If there was a scum scum pair, they could easily get rid of an entire voting phase to win the game. Just auto reject the proposal and you're in final dance(for clarity an auto reject is equivalent to town eliminating someone in a town/town pairing).

Idc who you are, no amount of wifom is worth trying to fight an entire extra voting phase.

So I think we're looking at two town/scum pairs because what we're seeing is the only real optimal play.

I gotta be legit if it's 2x Town/Town and 2 Town/Scum

Ginngie-Andante Town/Town
Ceph-Fire Town/Town
Bell-Myko Town/Scum
Dunn-Datisi Town/Scum

I think that Bell-Myko is Town/Town

[Dunnstral]

I asked Datisi who they thought was mafia with Malakittens. They said they don't know and maybe they will check her iso, and check my progression.

Maybe they can do that today

[Dunnstral]

So does Andante simultaneously think it's Datisi, Ginngie, and fireisredsir?

[Dunnstral]

Based on my own reads, it would likely be 2 within the andante/ginngie and fireisredsir/cephrir pairs

[Dunnstral]

I asked Datisi who they thought was mafia with Malakittens. They said they don't know and maybe they will check her iso, and check my progression.

Maybe they can do that today

do you actually care about me doing this

I'm interested in you having any kind of stance

[Dunnstral]

Was getting hungry, thanks

[Dunnstral]

UGH

Hey dunn you wanna leave lmfao

Not currently planning on leaving, vote us if you think Datisi is mafia

[Dunnstral]

I don't see post 2447 as calling Datisi scum, but rather believing that I have a real read

[Dunnstral]

I really do hate the me feeling townie post idk why but if I had to make a choice i'd have bell switch with mala.

Spoiler: My first 4 posts of the game

Sup Dunnstral is town so lets go from there

seeing deadline extended reads like we dont have much time to chat but i gotta finish some pretty big obligations like literally rn so I'll chat when thats over

If you scumread my slot talk to me; not meta, but quite simply mafia have a hard time having real time conversations and will talk at or about players, but usually not TO or with a player. So, it kills two birds with one stone as you can further sort the new slot and honestly if I'm a scumread, best thing to do is grill the replacement IMO. Also, it'll help me form my own reads because I personally love seeing if peoples reads are genuine on me.

intro post with RVS, and posting mafia theory, RVS only possible alignment indicator

Is dance equivalent to the game?

I'm reading player will leave the dance

does that equate to a player will be voted out?

Like if I was voted out does that mean I've left the dance?

This is just asking for clarification of the set up, nothing alignment indictive

Okay I think I got it

Firebringer couldn't find a partner so they were (voted out) removed from the dance

Left an even amount of players so now mafia eliminates one person creating the lone person.

The phase we are in now, that lone player may basically try to convince someone to switch partners so their partner is eliminated instead of them.

Each phase so far only one person gets eliminated. Then the next phase two people are gonna be eliminated.

If I have time I'll try and read about 10-15 pages a day till im caught up. I think I've grasped how this works.

Again, just set up spec, nothing alignment indictive.

So from what I can gather

Scum eliminated Bells partner

My gut reaction is that bell is town here because of if scum, we'll be able to see the theatre of scum having to dump their partner and trade for bell to become a SvS pair.

I dont see a scum player risking themselves like that on day 1 if I'm honest. I love this set up already.

Alrighty enough speculation imma go read some shit

This is more set up spec, only thing alignment indictive is maybe forming a townread on Bell; however again it's set up spec and I'd actually see that more as scummy than townie focusing on mechanics instead of a players reads. Easier to logic a read than explain why you feel a certain way.

Overall I don't get why I should feel townie when my analysis of myself I'd say is more of a scummy start.

So Mala, if you could help elaborate on your thought process there, it would help me feel more comfortable about you.

I overall had a decently good feeling about Prism.

As for the setup spec; Id think if you were scum you wouldn't be so open about the spec in the thread unless you have partners that are mia or just as confused

idk its a gut feeling ++ the read i had on prism

I overall had a decently good feeling about Prism.

We'll have to take you at your word for this, because this is not reflected in your iso.

Spoiler: Here is where Prism appears in your iso during the first phase

I had dinner and just ate some cookies and cream icecream.

Am I scum yet.
Andante is a her.

newbiescumtellbrooo

I know im playing with fire but me asking ydrasse to dance vs prism asking andante.
one is extremely scummy and the equivalent of "anyone want to dance?"
but the other is like apparently so towny that the dance is happening.

how does that make sense

Well, first, I'm not the player that weighed in on your proposal to Ydrasse. Andante was. Maybe she's a better fit to answer. It's also unclear if this is a critique of me proposing, of Andante accepting, or both, because asking about Ydrasse is fundamentally different than asking "anyone" and you treat them as equivalent anyway.

Second, Andante posted that because she's like the energizer bunny or the smiling dog in her picture, eager for more posts and to run around and grab the stick and bring it back and have someone throw it again so she can grab it again and shake head to play with stick pretend it is squirrel oh no they take stick and they can throw it and where stick go there stick must move legs fast and....

Fundamentally I think that enthusiastic pro-activity is a bit +town for her. That's a read rooted in meta. While I didn't comment on it before, I think your Ydrasse reaction is null at best. Just rote pursuit of early/pregame pocket target is plausible.

I agree w/ this assessment.

Andante's play so far reminds me of a puppy biting at my shoe while my leg is still attached because I got in their way. But I'm actually okay with that. They don't have to listen. I just won't talk to or address them unless I think it particularly relevant.
I dunno what Andante scum looks like. They've appeared townie since I've known them. This game isn't much of an exception.

Strangely, I actually agree with Ydra so far, but both Fire and Luke are the types of players I like, so I'm looking forward to seeing them play and maybe changing my mind.

so I have played with scum andante twice and this feels like town andante. Scum Andante has a tone-difference in her posts.

town andante has a huge chance of being pocketed so I want to wait out this read before solidily calling her town

i feel townpings on malakittens for possibly dumb reasons, we'll see

why's that??

maybe

dunnstral/mala
lukewarm/Datisi
cephir/fireisred

luke+ceph swap works too

So, I haven't yet had a great read on Dunn. I have played with Dunn in the past and been wrong too many times. So i'm leaning on ppl who have more exp in reading him.

im also open to that. i wanted myko left out most but now with who is remaining i want ceph and dun >>>>> luke and noraa to stay.

and im cool with taking some consensus into account if it comes down to luke/noraa cause i don't exactly have a strong scumread on either of them

I mean i wanted you to be left out bc i think youre scum, but hey we all cant get what we want

dunn will flip scum 9/10 times here

You were right about Dunn in Control so if anything i'll be more wanting to trust your read over aNYones elses when it comes to dunn

someone once told me dunnstral powers up in dance games

so in hindsight this makes dunn's posting NAI as if he powers up in dance game regardless of alignment, which in the future is gonna throw off any meta type tells

fml

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

Noted & ooof going to think on this last few lines of this.

Any bets on how long it takes Malakittens to notice her pairing got rejected for formatting?

I got the message from the mod
so i'm aware it was rejected for not being bolded.

i also checked the op so i know i have a decision to make between noraa and luke

i just need to catch up

Here is the only place you have ever given a read on Prism:

First I’m hearing you think prism isn’t town.

I have a lot of thoughts, and the fact ydra was killed over prism was a bit sus to me cause I thought prism looked very towny and is someone I'd fearkill... not sure why this is a hard thought to believe?

What. IMO prism was not the player I townread the most during D1. As I had two others who i felt were townier than Prism. You, actually, being one of them.

Which is during day 3, and in fact is a stance you just conjured up out of thin air today.

What do you think of this?

[Dunnstral]

Hmmmmm.

I am being swayed on my dunn scum read. Not ready to call him town, but he is making me question if he is my top choice to go anymore

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

I am not liking gins or andantes posting this phase.

Also, don't like Mala's response to dunn questioning her prism read. Like, she isn't saying that it's a new read, she feels like she is trying to back date it with old posts, but I saw her reads list in our pt, and prism was not a town read .

Maybe I am no longer opposed to Bell dancing with me?

Mafia is hard.

And this

[Dunnstral]

it is very easy for me to imagine scum!ginnie seeing their partner give a read that they realised doesn't track because they're obviously aware what their partners are doing,

Even though they had just replaced in?

Regarding Lukewarm, I meant that they pointed out that the read on the Prism slot was not true inside their neighborhood

I was wondering whether the entire interaction between the two made Ginngie less or more likely to be mafia

The one who pointed out the discrepancy in the reads was me and then Lukewarm, with Ginngie more focused on tone I think with posts like 1574, but bringing my post back up with 1576

[Dunnstral]

Why should mykonian be of concern?

[Dunnstral]

How does a no kill protect Mykonian? Bell has shown no special interest in getting rid of Mykonian. In contrast, they have shown an interest in getting rid of Datisi, so killing me should be pretty safe for Mykonian. That point is moot if Datisi is scum, I guess, but it still means that Mykonian is not in any particular danger.

[Dunnstral]

and if they kill in dunn/bell, then yeah it's probably likely that me/myko die, which like, if that flips town then it immediately makes the town reconsider.

I guess Datisi also said the same thing and you two are in agreement? Not sure why they jumped to that either.

[Dunnstral]

I just think it makes too much sense that both Datisi and Myko got paired with two highly townread players vs everyone else being scummy pairs.

I asked to pair with Malakittens, who was mafia, but they wanted to pair with Lukewarm instead.

[Dunnstral]

How does a no kill protect Mykonian? Bell has shown no special interest in getting rid of Mykonian. In contrast, they have shown an interest in getting rid of Datisi, so killing me should be pretty safe for Mykonian. That point is moot if Datisi is scum, I guess, but it still means that Mykonian is not in any particular danger.

My thought was that bell, being obvtown, is one of the people you'd expect scum to want to kill

I think that it can be inferred from my posting that I was likely to have paired with Mykonian if Bell died. But who knows.

[Dunnstral]

It’s low key sad that nobody thinks the reason I didn’t get shot was because I can’t shoot myself. But honestly, I can’t complain.
…pretty sure this is a complaint.

Why would you want to shoot yourself as town?