Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:22 am
It frustrated me when you voted WisdomIn post 3387, Shoshin wrote:Okay, Nancy. I'll try to address the issues you have.
I understand how CS felt but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him.It’s not villagery of you to totally refuse to understand why CS felt the way that he did.
I know you think it's bad that I didn't protect CS and I understand why you think that. But try looking at this from my perspective. I see my role a a trade-off between my value and the value of another player. I don't want to die in the place of another townie just for the sake of saving another townie over myself. I have to make value judgments about the value of any given player to the town's success.
I didn't want to use my role on N3 because I didn't trust any of the townies in the game over myself. You had mislynched Angel while defending Random, so I wasn't goinig to trade my life for yours. CS also led the mislynch on Angel, and I think I'm a much better townie than him, and I didn't think the value of having confirmed town outweighed.
Either way, I made a value judgment that has nothing to do with "totally refusing to understand why CS felt the way he did."
I have questioned it. I've asked you (and others) many times to explain why he's town to help me see if I'm missing something. But you haven't given me any reasons to believe he's town. I've read Random's posts many times. I've read what others have said about him many times. And I'm very confident he's scum based on those readings and rereadings.It’s not villagery of you to not ever question it your read on random could possibly be wrong.
I didn't derail your attempts to sort Sajj, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I said Sajj isn't mafia, and I'm fairly confident she isn't.It’s not villagery of you to try to derail me when I was trying to sort Sajj.
I never said this. What I said is that Chick is plausible scum with Random but with nothing close to the confidence I have in Random flipping scum.It’s not villagery to count out Chick as scum because you think she’s being a troll.
I can't address this unless you tell me what isn't villagery about the reasoning.Your REASONS for scumreading Wisdom aren’t villagery
Um, where did I say anything about the worst as scum via gamestate? I'm not even sure what that means.and you’re scumreading the worst isn’t villagery because gamestatewise
To be clear, I expressed a scumread on the worst on D1 because he refused to answer why Sajj was town and continued refusing for basically the entire game. I agree that there's hints of town in his posts but there's also lots of hints of scum. As I've said, he came out on D2 with pressure on Random based on the Creature wagon but then randomly started townreading Random; that progression felt fake and made no sense from a townie who genuinely wanted to sort who the scum behind D1's no lynch. I dont' understand how the worst reads Random as town when his internal logic of sorting the no lynch points to Random as scummy.
That doesn't mean I'm saying the worst is lock scum, not even close. I'm saying there's a plausible case that he's partnered with Random. I know you disagree, but that doens't make my reasoning scummy.
This is not what I've been doing.It is also not villagery to scumread or townread people solely on the basis of whether they town/scumread you.
I haven't given you reasons to defend me or care? Okay. I'm here trying. That's reason enough to care. And it's actually insulting that you wouldn't care when I'm putting in a great deal of effort to address your concerns.I obviously don’t want to mislynch you (or anyone else for that matter) but you really haven’t given me any good reasons to defend you or care. If you are willing to take into account what I and other people have been telling you instead of scumreading everyone who is suspicious of you, I’d actually have something to work with. If your town, then by all means help me prove it but I’m bored of trying to defend a player who is deliberately going out of thei way to be their own worst enemy.
To be clear, I'm not doing the things you're saying I'm doing. I'm trying to take into account what others have said, and I'm not just scumreading anyone suspicious of me. Like, that's just not true.
I would appreciate it if you try to look at things from my perspective to understand why I started treating you more aggressively. I was upset that you weren't really talking with me about Random, I was upset that you mislynched Angel without even trying to understand why she could be town, and I was upset that you weren't even questioning your own play there but instead continued saying that you were right about mislynching Angel.
You say that I don't question my reads, right? Well, from my perspective, it feels like that's what you're doing. You decided the worst was town and never questioned it. You decided Random was town and never questioned it. You decided Angel was scum and never questioned it, even after she was mislynched.
To be fair, you're questioning your read on me. Okay, cool. You don't like that I'm approaching you more aggressively. But how about trying to understand why? As I explained before, I'm not happy with the direction of the game. We already had a bad result mislynching Angel, and I'm worried we're heading down the same path today.
I need you to start rethinking things and I don't know how to do that. Maybe it's not possible. Maybe this game is doomed. But as I said, I'm not trying to attack your intelligence, nor you as a person. I'm giving you criticism about your play because your play led to a bad result and I'm worried it will lead to another bad result today.
From my perspective, it's not pro-town to just let you continue thinking things that are wrong. So what am I supposed to do to change your mind? I tried different tactics, none of them worked. I tried being more aggressive, that doesn't work either, you just took it as an insult instead of as an indication that I'm frustrated at trying to communicate with you.
for the reasons you gave
and you talk so much about honesty, so why aren’t you seeing that the worst is being honest here?I disagree with you about Angel. I agreed with CS that she was anti-town irrespective of alignment. She tried to. aggressively push Nico mislynch ffs and later the IC’s/mine.
You especially shouldn’t be scumreading the worst because we are the only ones who are really struggling with correctly reading you. You should realize that the worst is villagery based on that. But yeah agressioj, insults etc. have the exact opposite effect on me that’s intended.
I disagree with Wisdom and Reality because your tone does sound villagery to me. However, if there’s anything in your role that you haven’t yet shared, it would be good if you did. That’s why I think you could either be a 3P,or have some wonky role because I do get the impression that you are way too survivalist for some reason. Like your game somehow depends on you making it to the end and surviving LYLO. I think Wisdom is wrong because I don’t see how you and Chick are linked in any way.