Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[Andante]

I said I would stop talking to Harley, goddammit. This feels like actual productive discussion though.

Anyway I townread both RH9 and Alyssa. RH9 because as previously mentioned he sent out three proposals pretty late in pre-dance and he strikes me as the type to plan out his pairings more carefully as scum whereas that feels like genuine fear of getting left with a shit partner. His current play is not towny per se but he got enough towncred to be accepted by Alyssa and he doesn't seem to be trying to take advantage of that at all.

Alyssa... feels... like town? I know she would say this is bullshit, and it probably is. But the way she has reacted to the game, especially today, does not feel like she's trying to control it, at a time when the gamestate is very volatile and scum getting control of it would be extremely valuable to them.

And to S_S, why is not trying to control the game town indicative? If the game is currently in a state where scum doesn't need to care, why would theoretical scum!Alyssa care too?
Essentially when Harley has dominated most of the discourse lately. I don't see why scum should need to bother at all.

Wait yeah, why would not controlling the game be town indicative? if town is leading themselves down the wrong path, there's no need for maf to step in. Town is clearly wrong somewhere, that's why Mala, the town, was left behind

[NorwegianboyEE]

As much as i hate to admit it i'm agreeing with some of Andante's posts lately. Or finding them reasonable at least.

[Harley Quinn]

Spoiler:

i am very active scum player Titus. I think ive only ever lurked as scum when i was in a hydra

That's true, honestly the difference between scum and town fire at least back then was that his scum game was I dunno a little less uncaring. He had a vibe of I need to pretend to be ultra uncaring.

Ftr if galron and SS are TvT, then this pairing gets turbo killed

Which pairing do you mean and why?

Because the odds of a scum being in that pairing goes up due to how it came about

Shiro replaced in and both halves just appeared with zero input and without any regard to the rest of the game. If the remaining 3 slots were town, that immediately raises red flags.

Zero regard for the game? If anything picking a person that you know well helps better read them and know if you need to leave.

I feel Andante is town. Which is good because that keeps the Fire/And pair town/town

Like, I know I haven't outed strong reads like everyone or whatever, but truth is, there's been nothing I felt was read worthy, I felt like saying "oh hey these gentlemen are scum" cause that's what others were doing, and I figured I'd gain reactions. nope. I have no idea how people were outing super confident "endgame reads" before we even got the mala flip, like, idk, I'd play this game completely differently to how everyone else is playing, and that's why we're at 2500 posts, and most people don't have mega confident reads... Alyssa is like the main person I've liked though, she's felt very relatable with a lot of comments made, so gun to my head, she's town. like, there was a comment like "I should just disappear till pairs are done" and I was sitting here like, yeah same... and not pulling up her ISO, she had other ones when I was like "yep. I'm feeling exactly the same right now" plus her passing on fire when scum!Alyssa easily could've paired with fire, and like, waited late to pair? she's probably town, but a singular townread gets me nowhere here without having a read on the partner, and I have no read on RH9 yet

Most people that day 1 spew ultra confident reads are just wrong 90% of the time don't think much about it.

Like 90% of the problems I see in this type of setup for town are just really awkward pairings

Really awkward pairings scumside the setup... so it's realistic that scum would look to create more rather than less of them.

I agree with you but dance games people some times specifically join to partner up with specific people. Like me and Fire, this is the first time we aren't paired in a dance game we are together. Usually we pair up about 3- pages in with complete disregard about anything else. Is it optimal ? Nah. Is it fun ? You bet.

It's different having one pairing happen on page three and its another thing to have a yolo pairing happen when we're trying to figure out where the last couple of pairings go

Fair fair, tbh the only difference here is that Mala would have been my partner most likely(Assuming I didnt get the Harley is Nancy memo), meaning that Harley would have paired up with Garlon.

Honestly I think one of them is scum, most likely Garlon,

Scum tend to wait to pick so all lady scum are paired.

Has there ever been a lady scum left on pre dance?

Me no feel like I've given GL the proper attention he deserves to sort him but I wish they were a bit more active in talking to me

sorry, I tend to just ignore slots I know/think are town unless it's part of wagon building / vote negotiating, and we haven't had that yet this game so I haven't had much I've wanted to discuss with you from my end

I'll try to pay more attention to you, I promise, and I feel I'll have more to discuss now that we're in a proper D1

did you have anything you want to start with? I'm still catching up and dumping a boatload of thoughts in my PT with Datisi so I haven't read anything beyond 2357, but I did want to respond to this while I was looking at it

I mean you can give us your thoughts here as well no?

I detest that my best endgame pair atm is Shiro and HQ. They're the only two that don't make sense in any scenario.

Yea that's a weird take, but why? This gives me weird vibes because Titus know I town read her like 99% of the time and vehemently defend her, which makes me think she might be scum wanting me end game hoping I will pressure Harley to do the same.

dats and GL should be number 1 end game pair.

What, why?

Do you disagree with Firebringer?

Yea

What on? You don't trust Datisi and GL to be the 'number 1 end game pair'?

No, I do not. Why do you ?

Like with only 1 flips no pair is really endgame worthy right now.

dats and GL should be number 1 end game pair.

What, why?

Do you disagree with Firebringer?

Yea

What on? You don't trust Datisi and GL to be the 'number 1 end game pair'?

No, I do not. Why do you ?

Like with only 1 flips no pair is really endgame worthy right now.

I don't really either. I was asking to clarify. I think that at least, there is something we can all agree on. Nobody should be 'number 1 end game pair' yet. It's never a good idea to decide early because who knows. What if you change your opinion but because you decided too early, everybody starts bombarding you with questions on why you suddenly changed your mind.

Well, it not that really, I am all for giving unfiltered thoughts on the moment. It is the fact that I do not get where the confidence comes from.

I mean I currently think SS Gal Ydr and GL are the potential scum thought Harley told me I was mistaken about something, I thought Ydr was defending the SS and gal pair which isn't the case.

Alps I feel really iffy about Titus, I think her wanting me for endgame is weird because she knows my inability to scum read her after a while and it makes me feel weird

Enough for you yet, STD?

[Andante]

As much as i hate to admit it i'm agreeing with some of Andante's posts lately. Or finding them reasonable at least.

[Harley Quinn]

I agree with alyssa rh9 as endgame pair

I would not have them as an endgame pair. I can understand the reasons for townreading them from most of the people so far. But i'm not in the belief that any of it is conclusive.

Oh wait, Andante said that? Then it’s just her read on me that was probably bad then. I can give a link for RH9 in pair game and let people decide for themselves but I think he’s playing very similar here.

[Datisi]

I think he’s town

why

without mentioning other games

@harley

[GuiltyLion]

Here is my long awaited observations and reads table.

Spoiler

Spoiler: Table

Observations And Reads
Players		Other
Original	Replacement	Notes	Verdict
Galron		I like 514. 657 seems like genuine concern. 2648 and 2649 feel like genuine concern too. I like 2560. I don't think scum!Galron would try to remind me of his scumgame.	Townlean
Datisi		I don't think that scum!Datisi would mention his scumgame either so I like 107. I like the way Datisi is generally posting. Examples of this include 574 and 577 (which is a double post of 576). 2841 interests me as it seems that Datisi is trying to sort Harley Quinn.	Townlean
Catboi	Shiro	I like 299 and 403 from catboi because it seems like he is trying to repel Cabd's advances as opposed to letting Cabd pocket him. Shiro's entrance in 2199 and 2201 made me smile. I mindmeld with 2645. However, I hope that 2670 was the result of a misunderstanding because that's the one post I dislike.	Townlean
Marcistar		I like the way that she's trying to solve. Examples include 580, 724, 1153, 1439 and 1795. I like her original readslist in 477 and later her 'vanilla readlist' in 2459. It feels genuine.	Town
Firebringer		Mindmeld with 2885 and 2780. I like 2605 because it seems like Firebringer wants to solve the game instead of being focused on only solving Andante. The exchange between Firebringer and Harley Quinn resulted in me moving him from a townlean to a TR. Examples of posts from that exchange that I liked include 2890 and 2894.	Town
Save the Dragons		2835 seems like he is trying to solve marcistar. Readslist in 739 seems OK. Pair ranking list seems fine in 3032, though I'm wary of pocketing. I like 3056.	Townlean
Ydrasse		I disagree with 2525 regarding Galron. I don't think that Galron's scum for reasons mentioned above. I like how she is trying to calm Harley Quinn down in 2187 and making good suggestions in 2181. Like her readslist in 1204 and explanation in 1587. 1567 and 1572 seems like genuine concern.	Townlean
Prism	NorwegianboyEE	See 2779 for why I disliked NorwegianboyEE and 2883 for the part where I recind the 'painting a narrative' part. I agree with 2717, though. I also like 3058 His predecessor, Prism seemed fine. I liked 989. 5 was an idiosyncratic entrance. It was definitely not what I expected. I seem to be wrong on NorwegianboyEE and I apologise humbly.	Null
GuiltyLion		I feel like GuiltyLion is an interesting slot to read. I find him quite calm and explantory in his interactions unlike a lot of other people. Examples include 180, 221, 237, 248, 261, 286, 2132. 264 feels like a genuine reaction and I am amazed at how GuiltyLion was so calm. 327 feels solvey. I disagree with 1887 because there's nothing melodramatic that GuiltyLion has done. Thanks for 1705! 1620 is interesting. Has things changed? 1562 and 1600 feels like something which I should have not skimmed past.	Town
Cabd	Something_Smart	Dislike Cabd's interaction with catboi in 274. However, Something_Smart is different. I like 1157 because it fits in with my read on GuiltyLion. The advice in 1160 and 1165 is appreciated. Other posts that I liked include 1296, 1375 and 2910. I like 2852. 2931 was mind-opening.	Townlean
angielily	Harley Quinn	I think that angielily's readslists in 469, 471 and475 was OK though outdated. I agree with 484. From Harley Quinn, I like 2875 and 2882 for the content. 2042 and 2596 feels solvey. 2166 interests me. It does seem to me that Harley Quinn is somewhat dependent on meta. 3028 would be my favourite post because I mindmeld with the first sentence.	Townlean
Alyssa the Lamb		I like a lot of posts she has made. Examples include 55, 267 and 279. Interesting meta is given in 2859, 2861, and 2868. Interesting advice in 2973, 2987 and 2993	Town
Andante		I mindmelded with Andante at times. Examples 489 and 497. However, I disagree on the push on Shiro & Harley Quinn. It feels like 'tunnel vision'. Pair ranking list in 3013 seems OK, though I vehemently disagree on her read on Harley Quinn. However, 2932 makes a bit of sense.	Null
Lady Lambdadelta	Titus	I have found a couple of Lady Lambdadelta's posts, quite notable. These include 362, 558 which I find to be good advice, 623 because it could make sense from her perspective, 625 which is a mindmeld regarding 'Meta ≠ Experience' and 627. Now to some notable posts by Titus. These include 1214, 1215, 1216, 1220, 1222, 1223, 1342, 1351, 1447 and 1463.	Town

did everyone just like, not read this post lol

a lot of it feels fake to me

You did read catboi's 573 about my towngame, before posting this, or did you not?

I did read that comment, that doesn't mean that you don't sound fake as scum either, or that I should take catboi's opinion as gospel. He even said in the same post he doesn't have a read on you, and he also indicated after his 573 that he scumread you later in 693.

Here is my long awaited observations and reads table.

Spoiler

Spoiler: Table

Observations And Reads
Players		Other
Original	Replacement	Notes	Verdict
Galron		I like 514. 657 seems like genuine concern. 2648 and 2649 feel like genuine concern too. I like 2560. I don't think scum!Galron would try to remind me of his scumgame.	Townlean
Datisi		I don't think that scum!Datisi would mention his scumgame either so I like 107. I like the way Datisi is generally posting. Examples of this include 574 and 577 (which is a double post of 576). 2841 interests me as it seems that Datisi is trying to sort Harley Quinn.	Townlean
Catboi	Shiro	I like 299 and 403 from catboi because it seems like he is trying to repel Cabd's advances as opposed to letting Cabd pocket him. Shiro's entrance in 2199 and 2201 made me smile. I mindmeld with 2645. However, I hope that 2670 was the result of a misunderstanding because that's the one post I dislike.	Townlean
Marcistar		I like the way that she's trying to solve. Examples include 580, 724, 1153, 1439 and 1795. I like her original readslist in 477 and later her 'vanilla readlist' in 2459. It feels genuine.	Town
Firebringer		Mindmeld with 2885 and 2780. I like 2605 because it seems like Firebringer wants to solve the game instead of being focused on only solving Andante. The exchange between Firebringer and Harley Quinn resulted in me moving him from a townlean to a TR. Examples of posts from that exchange that I liked include 2890 and 2894.	Town
Save the Dragons		2835 seems like he is trying to solve marcistar. Readslist in 739 seems OK. Pair ranking list seems fine in 3032, though I'm wary of pocketing. I like 3056.	Townlean
Ydrasse		I disagree with 2525 regarding Galron. I don't think that Galron's scum for reasons mentioned above. I like how she is trying to calm Harley Quinn down in 2187 and making good suggestions in 2181. Like her readslist in 1204 and explanation in 1587. 1567 and 1572 seems like genuine concern.	Townlean
Prism	NorwegianboyEE	See 2779 for why I disliked NorwegianboyEE and 2883 for the part where I recind the 'painting a narrative' part. I agree with 2717, though. I also like 3058 His predecessor, Prism seemed fine. I liked 989. 5 was an idiosyncratic entrance. It was definitely not what I expected. I seem to be wrong on NorwegianboyEE and I apologise humbly.	Null
GuiltyLion		I feel like GuiltyLion is an interesting slot to read. I find him quite calm and explantory in his interactions unlike a lot of other people. Examples include 180, 221, 237, 248, 261, 286, 2132. 264 feels like a genuine reaction and I am amazed at how GuiltyLion was so calm. 327 feels solvey. I disagree with 1887 because there's nothing melodramatic that GuiltyLion has done. Thanks for 1705! 1620 is interesting. Has things changed? 1562 and 1600 feels like something which I should have not skimmed past.	Town
Cabd	Something_Smart	Dislike Cabd's interaction with catboi in 274. However, Something_Smart is different. I like 1157 because it fits in with my read on GuiltyLion. The advice in 1160 and 1165 is appreciated. Other posts that I liked include 1296, 1375 and 2910. I like 2852. 2931 was mind-opening.	Townlean
angielily	Harley Quinn	I think that angielily's readslists in 469, 471 and475 was OK though outdated. I agree with 484. From Harley Quinn, I like 2875 and 2882 for the content. 2042 and 2596 feels solvey. 2166 interests me. It does seem to me that Harley Quinn is somewhat dependent on meta. 3028 would be my favourite post because I mindmeld with the first sentence.	Townlean
Alyssa the Lamb		I like a lot of posts she has made. Examples include 55, 267 and 279. Interesting meta is given in 2859, 2861, and 2868. Interesting advice in 2973, 2987 and 2993	Town
Andante		I mindmelded with Andante at times. Examples 489 and 497. However, I disagree on the push on Shiro & Harley Quinn. It feels like 'tunnel vision'. Pair ranking list in 3013 seems OK, though I vehemently disagree on her read on Harley Quinn. However, 2932 makes a bit of sense.	Null
Lady Lambdadelta	Titus	I have found a couple of Lady Lambdadelta's posts, quite notable. These include 362, 558 which I find to be good advice, 623 because it could make sense from her perspective, 625 which is a mindmeld regarding 'Meta ≠ Experience' and 627. Now to some notable posts by Titus. These include 1214, 1215, 1216, 1220, 1222, 1223, 1342, 1351, 1447 and 1463.	Town

did everyone just like, not read this post lol

a lot of it feels fake to me

You did read catboi's 573 about my towngame, before posting this, or did you not?

And fake is an objective word. Why didn't you give your definition of 'fake' earlier? Were you trying to do a reaction test? Because if you were, then I feel hurt that you would do so. If you didn't, explain what led to you making 3182?

I'm struggling for scumreads if slots I previously suspected like S_S (or HQ) might be town, and I don't really have a particularly compelling reason to think you've done anything this game that you couldn't do as scum. I think you have a fair point that you have posted similarly shallow/fake-

sounding

posts as town, but it's really hard for me to look at anything you've posted and feel like scum!RH9 can't or wouldn't post that. The "fake" feeling is that a lot of your posts feel to me like an emulation of what you think solving sounds like, like you're trying to post things you think you would post as town rather than posting genuinely

[Taly]

someone love me omg

i demand affection

[Harley Quinn]

the part I really hate about this is that I think HQ's posting this page is town indicative

and that's the part that makes me want to leave

because HQ pretty commonly fights me on every single read that she disagrees with me on

and that gets really draining and/or frustrating very fast

I think HQ takes the cue to shut up as scum and doesn't keep challenging literally everything when multiple people are calling for all this extra shit to stop until more lists are out

i skipped all of harley's posts that talk about meta, so can you explain

pedit: ah i see
would she really shut up if she's so certain that she should be imitating her town game by screaming at everyone who scumreads her?

If that was all it was, it wouldn't be town

But she's challenging other reads too, which makes a difference

@Norwee

[Save The Dragons]

Enough for you yet, STD?

not really

[Save The Dragons]

taly you're a beautiful beaky birdie

[Harley Quinn]

I think he’s town

why

without mentioning other games

@harley

I can because it’s over. I will link you.

[Andante]

Then it’s just her read on me that was probably bad then.

I've decided I shouldn't act instantly on things I don't like, and that I need to give them time, and then go look into it, like obviously I still don't tr you now, but I'm not going back to tunneling until I sit here for an hour staring at ISOs. Even if I'm feeling bad vibes from people, SR lines, I can't just act on it when I feel like, and I have to take into account playstyles that clash with me. thus time passing should help, and need to come up with genuine questions for SRs to answer. Cause obviously people's reaction to "I think X is scum" isn't gonna be happy, and I don't feel like blowing up the thread again. Like, I will admit I could've gone about my SR on you differently, but it's definitely a valid thought/read I was making in my head

[Datisi]

I can because it’s over. I will link you.

i didn't say "without mentioning other ongoing games"

i said "without mentioning other games"

i don't do second hand meta and it means nothing to me

[Harley Quinn]

I think he’s town

why

without mentioning other games

@harley

I can because it’s over. I will link you.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13131305

I also think that having a lot of trs in general is highly town indicative and I think he sounds similar here to that game, so unless Taly and Alyssa are having doubts, I’m good with that read.

[Datisi]

I also think that having a lot of trs in general is highly town indicative

i can remember times when scum was like "lol idk i just don't scumread anyone hehe" so not really convincing to me

if the game is going well, scum can want to sit on the sidelines and not rock the boat

[Harley Quinn]

Then it’s just her read on me that was probably bad then.

I've decided I shouldn't act instantly on things I don't like, and that I need to give them time, and then go look into it, like obviously I still don't tr you now, but I'm not going back to tunneling until I sit here for an hour staring at ISOs. Even if I'm feeling bad vibes from people, SR lines, I can't just act on it when I feel like, and I have to take into account playstyles that clash with me. thus time passing should help, and need to come up with genuine questions for SRs to answer. Cause obviously people's reaction to "I think X is scum" isn't gonna be happy, and I don't feel like blowing up the thread again. Like, I will admit I could've gone about my SR on you differently, but it's definitely a valid thought/read I was making in my head

I don’t recall our playstyles clashing too much in Koba game. Anyway, what is your current read on SS/galron. GL, Marci, STD, Norwee, Titus, Datisi?

[GuiltyLion]

I wasn't sure about her slot after she called me town, and my plan at that point was to get in a PT and solidify my town read

so the "I want LLD to endgame" thing was just a LLD reaction test

please don't say stuff you don't really mean it makes it hard for me to discern between scum bullshitting and town bullshitting to ~reaction test~

but I do kinda understand your proposal a lot better if this was the real angle

[Andante]

I'm struggling for scumreads if slots I previously suspected like S_S (or HQ) might be town, and I don't really have a particularly compelling reason to think you've done anything this game that you couldn't do as scum. I think you have a fair point that you have posted similarly shallow/fake-sounding posts as town, but it's really hard for me to look at anything you've posted and feel like scum!RH9 can't or wouldn't post that. The "fake" feeling is that a lot of your posts feel to me like an emulation of what you think solving sounds like, like you're trying to post things you think you would post as town rather than posting genuinely

I love that GL is admitting this, like, yeah. Reads aren't easy here, and so many people are trying to make this black and white, like, it feels good to know I'm not the only one struggling on reads,like sure the exact struggles are different, but the concept is there. And people with 2-3 endgame pairs?? bruh.. Alyssa RH9 is like the only pair I'd really feel comfortable with at the moment, and even then, if I saw a compelling case against RH9, I may reconsider.
It's just super annoying to come back 12 hours later, to 10+ pages of people "solving" and no clear outcome after spamming stuff, so then I'm behind. and I like real time interactions, but missing context means I have to go read ISOs/whatnot then I just missed a few pages of real time talk, so that's why I really want to sit down, and figure out where my head is at, but bydoing that I know it ends in a tunnel, which ehhhh I'd rather do this, but by doing this, I have no read on half the table. tldr, I'm just trying to keep up, Fire and I do nothing in the PT, I'm kinda having doubts on fire, but it's a later issue, I legit thought he'd lol leave by now, also why I've been hesitant to really do a whole lot, cause yeah.

good times, I went on an irrelevant tangent, but what's new?

[Harley Quinn]

I also think that having a lot of trs in general is highly town indicative

i can remember times when scum was like "lol idk i just don't scumread anyone hehe" so not really convincing to me

if the game is going well, scum can want to sit on the sidelines and not rock the boat

True but in my experience it’s been overwhelmingly town who does that but he also tr most of the playerlist in pair game too and he was town in that.

[Andante]

I also think that having a lot of trs in general is highly town indicative and I think he sounds similar here to that game, so unless Taly and Alyssa are having doubts, I’m good with that read.

isn't it easier for maf to make TRs than SRs?

[GuiltyLion]

don't say that to Smart because anyone can just "name names" apparently

[Andante]

Then it’s just her read on me that was probably bad then.

I've decided I shouldn't act instantly on things I don't like, and that I need to give them time, and then go look into it, like obviously I still don't tr you now, but I'm not going back to tunneling until I sit here for an hour staring at ISOs. Even if I'm feeling bad vibes from people, SR lines, I can't just act on it when I feel like, and I have to take into account playstyles that clash with me. thus time passing should help, and need to come up with genuine questions for SRs to answer. Cause obviously people's reaction to "I think X is scum" isn't gonna be happy, and I don't feel like blowing up the thread again. Like, I will admit I could've gone about my SR on you differently, but it's definitely a valid thought/read I was making in my head

I don’t recall our playstyles clashing too much in Koba game. Anyway, what is your current read on SS/galron. GL, Marci, STD, Norwee, Titus, Datisi?

In Koba game it wasn't all this meta talk... and "read this game from a 3 person hydra!!"
no clue what my reads are there. In case you missed me saying it, I have no reads on half the table...

[Harley Quinn]

I'm struggling for scumreads if slots I previously suspected like S_S (or HQ) might be town, and I don't really have a particularly compelling reason to think you've done anything this game that you couldn't do as scum. I think you have a fair point that you have posted similarly shallow/fake-sounding posts as town, but it's really hard for me to look at anything you've posted and feel like scum!RH9 can't or wouldn't post that. The "fake" feeling is that a lot of your posts feel to me like an emulation of what you think solving sounds like, like you're trying to post things you think you would post as town rather than posting genuinely

I love that GL is admitting this, like, yeah. Reads aren't easy here, and so many people are trying to make this black and white, like, it feels good to know I'm not the only one struggling on reads,like sure the exact struggles are different, but the concept is there. And people with 2-3 endgame pairs?? bruh.. Alyssa RH9 is like the only pair I'd really feel comfortable with at the moment, and even then, if I saw a compelling case against RH9, I may reconsider.
It's just super annoying to come back 12 hours later, to 10+ pages of people "solving" and no clear outcome after spamming stuff, so then I'm behind. and I like real time interactions, but missing context means I have to go read ISOs/whatnot then I just missed a few pages of real time talk, so that's why I really want to sit down, and figure out where my head is at, but bydoing that I know it ends in a tunnel, which ehhhh I'd rather do this, but by doing this, I have no read on half the table. tldr, I'm just trying to keep up, Fire and I do nothing in the PT, I'm kinda having doubts on fire, but it's a later issue, I legit thought he'd lol leave by now, also why I've been hesitant to really do a whole lot, cause yeah.

good times, I went on an irrelevant tangent, but what's new?

Really? You’re having doubts on Fire based on him doing nothing in your PT? I actually think scum!Fire would be trying to pocket you in that, don’t you?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

here's some of my scumgames if anyone cares

Jigsaws Revenge
The thread title sucked the whole game
Calendar Mafia
True Love Micro
Timeshift IV
Fire on the Mountain (My strongest scumgame on site)