This is pending, and if Grandpa disappoints I will flip back there but for now I think this is the way to go honestly
VOTE: Pooky
I severely doubt newb!scum would out a pr soft instead of keeping it in the scum PT, be this self-destructive and not even claim at all when at E-1 as well as be wagoned this bad with no resistance. Also saying that Grandpa did make that a valid point and I am ready to give some weight onto Skitter's read and hopefully if their ISO dive post is good enough I am willing to stay here and see if I am in a false-tunnel.
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:24 pm
by JacksonVirgo
The one time I don't try and pagetop I get it, smh my head
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:40 pm
by WhemeStar
VOTE: Pooky
Grandpa is such obv town
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:44 pm
by WhemeStar
I don’t think andante is PR and still think he can flip scum
Please answer this with as much detail as possible and ASAP
lol just saw you wanted more detail, I mean, I wouldn't judge based on my experience, I've made reads, and given logical reasonings behind them, it's up to yall to see if it's town/maf reasonings, and judging how people on me know I'm flipping town... yeah
I'm just certain wheme is maf, that's about it right now
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:22 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
VOTE: whemestar
Lol from trying to hammer andante to trying to kill me without skipping a beat
W I l D
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:58 pm
by GrandpaMo
hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:58 pm
by JacksonVirgo
Could you post what you have?
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:00 pm
by JacksonVirgo
In post 781, GrandpaMo wrote:hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.
I voted there because I think they're actually more likely to flip wolf than Andante at this point, that and I don't believe I will get the leverage to elim you at this point in the game.
In post 781, GrandpaMo wrote:hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.
skitter said you r town
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:19 pm
by GrandpaMo
Okay hey there!
This will be a long post. This will include interactions from Andante, Pooky, Skitter, Wheme, and of course JV. JV wanted something of that sort, and I will bring the analysis onto you JV; you are the main focus hence why you are the only one in this ISO wall post.
1. Analysis Through Wallposts
Responses will be in
whatever random color I chose.
Note: I did write some early info on my notebook regarding JV while looking at a depth ISO analysis so if you do see more of post numbers than that is why. It is very hard to really respond to everything, but I pointed out some noticeable and notable things that were worthy of replying to.
In post 135, Ahri wrote:admiration / thanks will be collected in the form of PayPal
thank you!!
Sure! I'll send it to you, just need your account username and password
In post 148, GrandpaMo wrote:s of now, Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them
You can't actually have this pop into your head, after I've literally explained I was going to work and that I was going to sleep FOR work the night earlier. Your entire perspective is broken
VOTE: GrandpaMo
Okay so I believe this is where it first began and everything that led to our early game interaction. Our first quote on quote misunderstanding. And this stems from you misunderstanding what I said. Later on, I do admit to something I may have misunderstood causing me to read something wrong. Anyways, you took my reaction through you working seriously and thought that I had a scum mindset in which I wouldn't really be focused on you and just let you go by. You misunderstood me because that wasn't really what I was saying and later on I was trying to get you to understand that wasn't anything that should be considered scummy or reactive or anything. You thought my perspective was just you coasting in scum terms, in which I disagree. My perspective during that time was that "hey you said you are working = expecting some coastiness > expect some reads later on. That was how my mindset during that initial read. You
misunderstood
what I said and took it in another account. Also something with the pivoting quotes earlier mentioned above. That is where I was thinking "hmmm do mafia usually do this in forum mafia... sheep just so openly" I never really had the chance to look at other games or really look into the framework as this game. This will be a precedent game and I hope we do win as town so I can start my winning streak. FYI You do NOT have to agree with me. But as my analysis shows, that is what it assumes/implies.
In post 163, GrandpaMo wrote:Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.
Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.
This is the second misunderstanding of the interaction. And I will come out and admit that it was my misunderstanding on how I misunderstood what your initial post was saying. I thought you were implying a scum read on me because I was already biased that you were overreactive and had a sense of a scum mentality where you would get so offended like that. And so I just correlated the two together and got that perspective.
In post 163, GrandpaMo wrote:Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.
Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.
Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.
In this quote, I thought that you were trying to find the easiest of tells or ways to actually push me hence why I said you were over reacting in post 176. This is where honestly I further exemplified my scum case on you coming out and saying it was sarcastic maybe made it seem like you were tryna cover your tracks, however this could have even just been further bias on me.
In post 165, GrandpaMo wrote:Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.
How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?
Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.
If I butchered this explanation let me know
Oh well that changes my perspective on something.
Okay cool. And?
Something I should include as I never got to answer it. It was a moment of realization where I actually had to change my perspective on how I thought pooky and skitter back then were being paired with third possible back mafia. Now I realized making the reads I did back then, I realized that only 2 mafia was available hence why I came up with pooky/skitter - jv/fizz.
In post 163, GrandpaMo wrote:Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.
Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.
Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.
Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,
lmao
It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.
You also said you have blatantly said your scumread on me. Can you please again if you did because you did not and referred me to saying "I have said it multiple times". I expect a reply very soon not something for you to look back and make some random shit as of now.
This is actually manipulative.
And I've said many times that your perspective/mindset is not one I would or ever have considered a townie mindset and this also doubles down as one of my own person strongest scum-tells to look out for. You blatantly sheep another's reads by saying you agree to it, without actually adding any content for yourself, and then you cherry-pick the information to shade me knowing all too well that you knew exactly why I was not active. What you've said to me just now proves that. You aren't town, and I am almost certain
This was just more me of aggressively seeing you as a way to tunnel me and reiterating your reads. I have genuinely asked you at that time for your reads because remember I misunderstood the whole scum case on me. I thought you were basing your scumreads being over defensive of being coasting. I now know why and it is not because of what but the why behind the whole equation. I understand now that you have scumread me because I would have that perception to say that specific quote I said earlier. Even though I disagree with the read, it gave me more result at it. Remember, this is just reiterating information I have already said and saying it again to really clarify to you what I meant.
In post 181, GrandpaMo wrote: You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.
VOTE: JacksonVirgo
Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.
Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).
Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.
I thought my mindset was completely normal obviously due to the own self conscious bias but also just using your logic there. I became more infuriated with your own logic as I thought it contradicted. You were here tunneling me and not even actively trying to find scum and etc. I always thought this would have gotten faster but now I am used to playing this style so that's been better. I never knew any of the ignored info by the way. Only time I have cherry picked info is when I have found certain things of what you said was scummy. I thought you were really being hypocritical because you got mad over me calling you coasty now (having that same mindset as before thinking you scumread me because of that and not the mindset). The pair thing has to do what I decipher in my head as town. Obviously you know that we don't share a brain. We both are going to have some different and similar results at times using whatever techniques to get there whether you be scum or town.
In post 194, GrandpaMo wrote:I WILL RIGHT NOW LOL! I literally told you many times that you have brought up ways especially general terms in which ANYONE can and quickly pivot that onto me because you already seen TWO people have that synopsis. You also are over reaching on a quote that never was meant to attack you or anything. You were overdefensive and only mafia gets overdefensive on something like that. You get overdefensive because you have nothing else to attack me on that besides that. You are exposed.
You say you're rushing and cannot answer me, which in extension accepts that I did explain the mindset thing yet here you're denying it.
Also Town can't get defensive when they get attacked for literally having the inability to post? Just stop
That second quote right here further signified the scumread I originally had on you. I was very very null scum leaning to you. Because at times you would say it was the perception and how a mafia would think and now you give me this question and now I am conflicted with my own thoughts. "Does this question imply that they were scumreading me based on coasting?" Anyways back to the first part, as you can see I got angry because I really thought you know we were just going at it and it was getting us no where... I was doing everything you were doing and you kept looking me as scum. I started getting more on the agressive side here and try to pin point out the things you have done that in my experience I have scum seen.
In post 205, GrandpaMo wrote:This is my first forum game lmao. I have played mafia in other communities though as I said previously. This proves that you are taking what I say out of context.
I am just asking as I originally thought you may be an alt, you're the one reaching now.
In post 205, GrandpaMo wrote:Back to the mindset thing. I never have lied anything about you, didn't even scum read you nor really focus on you. Just like how I questioned GeorgeBailey's presence, I questioned yours as Andante has said something about your entrance. I followed up with "yea I can see how that can be weird" then proceed to say that I want to hear from you (which I expected for you to do once you get back from whatever doing).
No, my main point was that you were purposefully omitting information to make me look as bad as possible, of which you've confirmed yourself with your wording. Unless you act deceptive as town, you're simply not. Simple as that. Also you lied by saying I keep making excuses, when I made one which, again, you decide to omit the fact I was at work and decide to shade me.
In post 205, GrandpaMo wrote:Coasting never aligns with me being manipulative. Not in any way I have tried to be manipulative. I was just game solving from a town mindset and actively searching for different reads because at that time, I did NOT have a distinct scum read and wanted to hear from you and your reaction to Andante and me hence, why I said the thing I said.
You're using my own words as a reverse-attack here, it does not matter if you said you had a SR on me or not, you WERE shading me by omitting stuff how hard is this to understand.
In post 205, GrandpaMo wrote:You are also hypocritical to the fact that you as well never answered my question in post 187.
Don't remember this, I'll check back.
In post 187, GrandpaMo wrote:Because were you or were you not?? Did you or did you not leave? Yes you did. Hence I said what I said.
This question? Are you serious? You're taking low blows in hopes to up your defence when it's not. To answer the seeming rhetorical question; I did leave, I was at work like I said. Does that mean you can scummily shade me and manipulate the given state and get away with it? Definitely not.
And by manipulate the state, like I've said a thousand times at this point. You specifically choose to omit that fact I was at work, and say I was coasting. You also blatantly exaggerate it to make it seem like I am constantly trying to not post, when it was page 6. Adding to the fact that you were sapping off the fact I was a LHF at the time in hopes to make me look bad.
In post 205, GrandpaMo wrote:where you have gotten overdefensive on something such as me calling you out as coasting.
As I said, I am not happy that you just put me in a bad light and I am not accepting the fact that a Town would do that willingly, which again I have proven that it WAS willing.
I thought it was obvious town saw me replying to your information that what I said originally was based on the assumption that you were at work. That is why it was necessary not to include information that was explicitly said. I never used that omitted information, I used how you originally reacted to me against you because like I said there was no problem in the first place. Just a terms of misunderstanding really just caused that whole interaction
from them but I am not sure exactly where I lie with it. They're not addressing the original questions, sure. But I have a feeling that this post is genuine.
I hate vibe reads. I guess you did give a real read but just to let you know, I really despise vibe reads. I don't know; the nature of them just feel so unnecessary to the actual content and game solving of the actual game. So the from your point of view, I think this is where you start picking up on Andante here and this is how I saw you feel towards Andante. I think you are the least likely to make the sheep here knowing your playstyle (more info down below). Mafia just wouldn't be that obvious in my opinion.
Okay, I am starting to think our definitions are different.
Lurking -> reading the thread but choosing not to post in it for [X] reason. (which I should also clarify isn't AI by itself if someone does lurk).
This was based on the reality that lurking meant actual scum type of coasting. You read the post, not choose to post because you don't want the attention sitatuid on yourself or any other scum tells that happen with coasting/lurking. Pretty much this quote in general meant we both disagreed on something but moved on after... a contentious that felt genuine.
I think we both had the same initiative thought about this interaction. We are both stepping back and realizing the difference it makes without tunneling each other. This is why I was starting to town lean more here due to you having the same thought as me because you are thinking and looking like a townsmember.
JacksonVirgo: 43 ISO posts, LOTS of quotes and responding to quotes.
Is this a problem? You're making it out that it is
2 people vote Grandpa, and Jackson goes “I’m swinging this way as well at this point” - #162 with no interactions directed at Grandpa before that, then in #162 Jackson votes Grandpa after yelling that they were gonna sleep/go to work?? I do believe Jackson was genuinely mad, but like, it’s weird. #167 Jackson says “I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.” But all Jackson has really SAID about/to grandpa was explained the setup, and got mad at GM cause Jackson said they were gonna go to bed/work, yet assumes they have to stick around and talk to GM??
You are aware you can just walk away and resume whenever right??
Depending on how busy my life is at the time, I sometimes can't get super into a game until later which leads to me reading but not posting, which happened until Grandpa heavy-duty caught my radar. You're also taking my words out of context here. Grandpa was omitting information that was making me look bad, of which I wasn't going to accept so of course I attacked back. I explained many times about the mindset thing so why are you choosing to ignore that. I do not like leaving stones unturned when I play, get used to my playstyle or yeet me.
~~ I see why yall wanted me to react to this exchange earlier lmao ~~
Just reading this, Jackson feels mad/annoyed at GM for the questions. GM asked for a reason for a read, and in #168 you go “I’ve given one, rather blatantly if I do say so myself” then in #169 JV scumreads GM for saying lmao.
Like, I could see this as town conf biased Grandpa is scum, but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.
In #179, I find this really interesting, JV calls GM manipulative, then talks about GM sheeping another’s read without adding to it, then picking info to make JV look bad. I haven’t ISOd GM yet, but this reaction to GM wondering the reason JV SRs them? The #179 paragraph is just a very generic thing, it’s not even like “you said this here, and changed the context here” Town or Maf, Jackson feels like they aren’t even going to consider a Grandpa town world, which makes me lean JV scum, but I’ll keep reading.
#180 Jackson still seems mad about being “expected to be there when they previously said they wouldn’t be” like, this type of anger isn’t alignment indicative, but I do kinda SR the fact JV has so many posts about it, when you could literally just walk away any moment and return later, and no one will care.
I was very frustrated with having to deal with what Grandpa was doing, yes. Your response to my 169 is weak and seems overly shady, tbh it's not even a response it's just reiterating what was done with no input of your own. Repeating again, me deadass tunneling a player without looking elsewhere is a bad habit of mine, even if I am right I am trying not to do so. Again, you're attacking something that's just my
playstyle, so stop.
#183 JV explains a town vs scum mindset, and I’ll add, a town mindset would be trying to find maf/acknowledging your read might not be right, cause JV has just been tunneling Grandpa, granted GM is probably the only one speaking right now, but posts like this kinda just reaffirm that your only goal is to tunnel GM, I kinda agree with GM’s #181 JV hasn’t explained the GM specific things, just keeps talking in general terms.
#186 JV is still yelling about being in the forum longer than they wanted?
Again, you are more than welcome to walk away whenever, we have 7 IRL days for d2/3/4
JV asking GM about maf experience… as if that will change anything about this little situation… I’m trying to not make a super long post here lol I know yall aren’t gonna want to read this
#227 FINALLY a post not to GM, JV responds to Fizz about spamming the thread, which in my opinion is a really weird post to respond to lol especially going “I don’t think this is AI” like, I think in that content, it definitely pointed more to JV scum GM town, like, also based on what I remember people saying, others agreed with that, and I really see it.
#229 “I have a surface level TR on skitz because their entrance” this comment feels really out there. Just had this huge exchange with GM about how you need reasons.. also in #160 basically told me reading entrances was bad, but if JV does it, it’s ok!!
Acknowledging a read may/may not be right is a personality thing and/or confidence thing so I disagree with you. 186 you're completely misrepresenting/misunderstanding there. I am proving that I was not just bullshitting my way out of posting like Grandpa was making out I was doing. And I am ALLOWED to ask people for experience, I was trying to fucking gauge them. Now I'm lowkey getting mad. I do not care if any of my posts are "out there", I've explained what I did and I am not going to again.
****
#298 makes a point to go back to skitter about the entrance? This exchange with the 2 feels really weird. I was a tad sus of skit before, and this makes it feel like “I need to force an interaction with my partner” it’s so significant, I’ll actually quote it below.
In post 229, JacksonVirgo wrote:I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.
Oh? How was it ballsy?
It just seems overly, hype/exciting in a way that seems too risky for scum to do as it may appear as pockety.
*****
#412 is another post just speaking in general, and not really directed at anyone “scum would do this…”
#413 – JV knows I’m town likely from TMI but I’ll take a tr right now
#423- I mean, if you ISO Glory, Glory’s lines are fine, definitely not bad.
You're making associative reads before any flips happen, which is generally bad practice as you're >rand wrong when you do that. Just stick to singular reads and go from flips, trust me on that one. I hate the fact you're shading me for 413 which is legitimately LAMIST, and I no longer town-lean you. It's actually quite funny how big your contradiction here is though, you said a town mindset is knowing your reads may not be right, but here you are fairly certain on me/skitter being scum (more specifically me here) and yeah, according to your very own logic you are scum. Congrats fam
Knowing your playstyle this game so far, I feel as though this wallpost on you gave like more of a bias standing against Andante. You feel weird about Andante. Andante scumreads you > then you scumread them stronger. Do you understand what I am trying to say? You may disagree but from my perspective that is how it looks like. You have to also really consider... does scum iso you like that? and really try to give their best in coordinating associate reads? Just seems really eh enough of a towny reaction of responses just like I am doing now to really see it from a perspective.
In post 542, JacksonVirgo wrote:Also Wheme looks pretty decent at this current moment imo. 552 I like a lot and it's something I would have said if they didn't
Okay so basically this will be a TLDR of what I have said throughout this sort analysis. These are what I usually had written down next to me just for reference. So from post 162, The first misunderstanding happen; the initial push from JacksonVirgo. From post 167, the second misunderstanding happens; I assume not a real assumption. Around post 169, you use small embellishments that make me more angry and tunnel you further making assumptions that you were getting to me for everything. By post 173, this is where I officially think that you were getting to me by everything. From Post 183 to some posts later, you now fully explain the whole mindset concept in greater length and detail and I now understand the initial scum push on me. Around post 197, I started associating hypocrisy to everything you did trying to scum push me further. Towards later posts you start having the same thoughts as me. You lessen and twiddle down the energy. We BOTH do that. And realize something a conceptual / intuitive thought we may have head that if we both try to actually and try to look for scum instead of tunneling we can get the game going on. It was no point of arguing no more since we couldn't get the point across to each other. We both tried and failed essentially as we both probably still disagree with each other on the majority of reads. Right now, you have stayed in a very neutral position where you are playing so like aggressive but you havent been making really big scumtells. I will try not to be paranoid and actually seek what your actually alignment later on.
INCOMPLETE
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:22 pm
by GrandpaMo
ok goodnight hope this is good enough catch up with you all tmr
In post 781, GrandpaMo wrote:hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.
skitter said you r town
is ur meta trying to act scum as possible so u can get townread by "oh they are acting very scum cant actually be scum"
like come on man please contribute... even as mafia try wit a grain of salt. before i wake up i better see ur reads smh
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:26 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
thats definitely my meta :3
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:56 pm
by WhemeStar
I can’t trust anyone who sheep’s skitter after 2057 o.o
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:05 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 790, WhemeStar wrote:I can’t trust anyone who sheep’s skitter after 2057 o.o
the town in 2057 did not listen to skitter and they lost horribly.
specifically she did not vote for any of the three mis-elims that happened...
i have played a lot of games with skitter and she is one of the nicest and best players I've ever played with.
She is a great person and she is also try-hard enough to actually effort in every game she plays.
likely from TMI but I’ll take a tr right now