Square Enix III: (Game over)

[bill1148]

[quote="bv310"]Reck, I promise not to NK you N0 anymore.

That one time was worth it.[/

quote]Didn't we lose that game?

[bill1148]

Reck, I promise not to NK you N0 anymore.

That one time was worth it.[/

quote]Didn't we lose that game?

^fail

[bill1148]

WAIT WHO WAS ON THE SCUMTEAM THAT KILLED ME

WHO WAS IT

Me, Kdub, bv, and Meh. bv was the main supporter of killing you if I recall.

[bill1148]

vote Chrono

for being wagony.

[bill1148]

...And yes, I'm in a site-wide alliance with dramonic.

But outside of that, he seriously hasn't been scummy this game

...

Elaborate.

[bill1148]

As in, despite my obviously not-serious-pseudo-buttsex-alliance with drammy, he hasn't been scummy this game.

E-L-A-B-O-R-A-T-E

As in, WHY hasn't he been "scummy" in your eyes?

[bill1148]

Devo, Prana, and Fate feel pro-town. Midnight, Chrono, Kdub, dram, and bv need to be looked into.

I agree that quadz' "long" post that he gave after being called out by Devo was mostly fluff, and as such I too find him slightly suspicious. That said, I'm not quite ready to hop on the quadz wagon just yet.

[bill1148]

@Billy
In post 129 you vote for Chrono based upon being wagony. So why no other comments against other votes that can be seen as wagony?

A few reasons. First, when I intially voted for Chrono, it was before most of the other "wagon" votes on quad. The thing that hurts Chrono though is that my last game with him is still on my mind- he was wagony as hell in that game (where he was scum). In the case of bv, I have had the experience of playing with him as a scum team-mate before, and as such I feel more aware of his tendencies. Although I have only played one game with him, in that particular game, bv really hardly posted at all. bv was fairly pro-town for the first half of this day phase, though his obvious as-of-late disappearance has hurt him.

Billy catches my attention again later on when he’s asking xRECK to elaborate why Dram isn’t scummy. This to me indicates that Bill thinks that Dram is scummy. If so, why no comment on Dram?

That question towards Reck was more so me trying to gain more of a read on Reck, rather than Dram. That said, I do find dram somewhat suspicious. To answer the second question, there is little reason for me to say what has already been so well said by Devo & Prana.

PS:

Don't

call me Billy ever again. Else I'll just ignore you next time.

[bill1148]

eh...

unvote
vote quadz

would have went there eventually.

Also, I don't really like the dram/Reck connection. Reck is a pretty experienced player and I don't think he'd make the mistake of emphasizing that dram is town if he and dram were scum buddies. Reck and Fate,

maybe

, given that the excuse of "lol CAPS buddies" can be easily used. dram and Reck have more "serious" interactions.

Granted, it is possible that Reck has zero read on dram and just wants him around as an opportunity to play more with him (as he mentioned earlier that one of them were always killed early). But for the time being, I recommend trusting Reck.

[bill1148]

for the time being, I recommend trusting Reck.

For what reason? What has he done that means you should trust him when he's just admitted to not even paying attention? If he can't trust his own judgement through not paying attention, how can anyone else trust it is beyond me.

Foremost, I said

for the time being

, as in, trust him for at least this day phase. But to get to your original question, there are a variety of reasons.

The first, and most un-appealing reason is what I mentioned in my previous post- Reck has zero read on dram and just wants both of them to live past the first day phase, because he wants to play with him more. Another possibility is that Reck does, in fact, have a read on dram but simply doesn't feel the need to express how he came to that read. Though many will disagree with this, I can understand it. There are certain unique methods that some players use to find scum- methods they don't want everyone else to know about, and as such they keep the reasoning to themselves. Another possibility, which I'm surprised no one has thought of or mentioned, is a possible ability use by Reck. Mason, day investigative abilities, etc.

That said, I don't exactly have a pro-town read on Reck. Atm I am neutral on him, and about 10 other players fall into that category as well.

Finally, something I just noticed was bv's V/La post...which ironically came directly after my post on him lurking. Perhaps its only coincidental, but I think its worthy enough to put an *official*

FOS: bv

on him.

[bill1148]

Prana, I can give you a list of about a dozen players from this game who aren't giving two sh*t's worth of attention this game. I am aware that Reck said he isn't paying much attention and it's something he shouldn't have said, but tbh I think he's paying more attention than at least a half dozen other players.

Hopefully it's just because this is Day 1 and the fact that Day 1 is generally a crap-shoot, and as such people are more inclined to throw a wagon vote on someone then disappear for four days.

[bill1148]

Good news: Get your tissues ready.... Glork replaces Vamparific!

dun dun dun!

[bill1148]

My eye is on her,

but she's not my first scum pick

.

Please, enlighten us.

[bill1148]

Glork:

I already answered that vote on Chrono. To repeat it bluntly, at the time of my vote, Chrono's wagon vote was one of the first. Also, my latest game with Chrono is still fresh in my mind, where he was the biggest wagoner in that particular game. But besides that, I mentioned some other big wagoners (bv, Midnight) as suspects.

On the subject of Quadz: lol, you serious? His posts up to page 11/12 SUCKED. When Devo finally called him out on this, he responds with a crap post (245) asking about 10 people to post more/blind agreeing/vague statements, rather than providing any thoughts on anyone in particular. I find this far more scummy than say, Devo's in-depth post on him (228, 254) or Prana's posts on Reck/dram.

I'm also not comprehending the "singling Quadz out" logic being used on Reck/Fate/Devo. Sure, he isn't the only one lurking/not contributing and it is a bit unfair, but there are just way too goddmann many people not doing sh*t for this game. You have to single out

someone

amongst the masses. I voted for quadz due to a) terrible direct response under pressure voting and b) (though no one will like this and it will make me sound hypocritical) being one of the few lynch options left with little time left. If I recall, if a majority isn't reached by the time limit, the result is a no lynch, correct? Ending a day in a No Lynch is a big no-no, Reck/Fate were hellbent on not voting dramonic or Chrono (my other prime targets along with bv) for whatever reason. Admittedly, and as terrible as this sounds, quadz wasn't the absolute best option for a lynching, but I felt that he was "up there" enough to be worthy of a vote. And given that this is a Day start, which sucks balls, it is a crapshoot and votes tend to be fairly more random and people have a higher tendency to throw a weak vote somewhere and then disappear, so I am more lenient to those who aren't contributing (gandalf, nautillus, inHim, kdub, JP etc) and those who don't care (Reck). Cue the "ZOMG HE'S SCUM CUZ HE IS MORE LENIENT!" remarks.

Finally, I'd like to ask HOW in the hell you came to a pro-town read of Midnight. Because all I've seen from her are weak-ass wagon votes tossed around. Nearly as bad as Chrono.

Given that Chrono is finally getting some goddamn attention, I'm going to have to toss my vote there.

unvote

vote Chrono

[bill1148]

I apologize Midnight.

[bill1148]

By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.

Didn't you say that both were pro-town yesterday?

Thoughts:
Two Anti-Town factions
"Kicked to Death" sounds lame

What I want done:
JP needs an opinion on SOMEONE
I'd like many people to contribute more. This includes, but is not limited to: kdub, Chrono, Midnight, JP, Fate, inHim, vezok
I'd be in biggest support of lynching, in no particular order, bv, JP, or Midnight.

vote bv

[bill1148]

You're calling me out, but not Bill? Seriously? I could have accepted it had you called out Bill that he should just respond to my posts as ignoring based upon how you're called is BS. I could have accepted it had you called me out on my ego, but also Bill. But just calling me out, while letting Bill do as he pleases, I cannot.
And no, it was to see how Bill would react as it's just scummy to ignore with such a reason.

Because you were being a dick. It's one thing to do something to see what response you get from someone and its another to do it to be an asshole. You were doing the latter. Show some respect for fucks sake.

But very well. What questions do you want me to answer?

[bill1148]

Well that was weird.

JP dies at a measly 4 votes for whatever reason. It might have been some sort of automatic ability for him, where if lynched he dies at less votes (to counterbalance other abilities, I'm sure). In which case, some +town points for all four who voted for JP (Reck, Midnight, vezok, inHim). I don't think scum would, with the knowledge that their partner was going to die at such few votes, be willing to throw a vote on him. Being that a) No Town player would be aware of an early death, and as such no suspicion comes to those who didn't vote for scum and b) little reason to throw an early vote on a player where there is virtually no case for him. He is gone for most of Day 1, then when he returns when the Day is nearly over. Day 2 he dies before he even gets on here. I think he made a total of like 3 posts this entire game. Again, not much suspicion goes to those who didn't vote for him.

Other possibilities, is some ability (not from JP or his team) that hit JP. Might be a captain/president, though this is a pretty weak case since in my experience everyone is informed when that ability is used. Some kind of voting ability is possible. These are the only abilities that come to mind atm.

Thoughts:
-Glork & Zaz need to be watched carefully. Glork for suspecting Devo. Also, his "JP pressure is good but vote Fate" post doesn't sit right. Zaz for suspecting Devo & Nero. That said, some +points for Glork's use of decent inductive reasoning by suspecting Prana/Midnight. I've done some heavy re-reading and can find virtually no reason for a kill on Nautillus based on Day 1 alone, so looking at QT is good.

Reposting this, with some minor editing: I'd like many people to contribute more. This includes, but is not limited to: kdub, Midnight, Fate, inHim, bv

99.999% likely to be Town:
Chrono
vezok

And now that that's all said...back to where I was yesterday.

vote bv

[bill1148]

I like how Vezo comes in here and starts shooting off that I'm obv scum, ignores MS, and states Glork has said I'm scummy. When what he actually said was "from our QT" it was likely me or MS, and that he had previously had people claiming he said I was definitely town, when he hadn't said that either. He's basically saying he's not sure either way, as opposed to "Prana's scum". So may I ask you to please pay attention to the game vezo, especially when it's things where people have claimed parts of their role previously (such as Chrono claiming mason on day 1).

Incidentally, I'm not 100% on anyone left in our QT, Glork is strong as hell if he's town, but he's going to be even stronger a mafia if he can convince people to follow his lead. However thus far he's done nothing scummy so I have no reason to pursue anything in that sense. Vezo I've seen absolutely nothing pro-town, but the latest jump to conclusions is a bit iffy for me, but I'm also wary of diving on him purely because he's attacking me. Pushing people is good, jumping on someone just because they chose to pursue something they think might lead somewhere (rightly or wrongly) is bad.

MS and KDub I'm not really that sure on thus far, so don't want to make a call either way yet.

To be honest, right now I'm still concerned about how the hell we lynched JP like we did. Half the votes needed to lynch and he's gone, and I still doubt it was an active ability, which leads me to believe there's either two scum teams, or a third party out there. Especially with the amount of kills going round this game.

Terrible post Prana.

Vezo is pro-town based on claim alone (same as Chrono). He can prove his ability and it can apparently block at least one of the night kills. If there are two scum teams, that pretty much nullifies that chance he is from Scum team A. WHY block everyone if it prevents your kill? If he is from the same scum team as the one that killed last night, that would be

extremely

over-powered, considering he said he can use it on even night phases. It's still possible that it's SK, but SK's are far more rare than two scum teams. As well, I've never heard of a mass-roleblocking + kill every night SK.

On the second part, it reads "I'm disappointed a scum leader died."

But a question on the second part about JP: You believe, then, that this was an ability used by another player, rather than a counter-productive ability that JP already had?

[bill1148]

4) I still don't like Bill,

but my reasons for that are more gut-based than anything else.

That said, I do want to ask about one of his posts just now:

Glork for suspecting Devo

I'll bite. Why does having been wrong about Devo make me necessary to "watch"?

Eh, when looked in isolation, not really a reason. As I said earlier, scum generally want to kill other Night Killers. You and Zaz were one of the few to suspect Devo. You suspected Devo. So I made a

very weak

connection. Other than that, I noted the "I want JP pressure but I vote Fate" thing, but your reply about that in the middle section of your post is satisfactory. And also, although I've never seen you as scum before, you are a good player and I have little doubt you'd play as scum quite well.

[bill1148]

@Bill (or Chrono, or Fate):
Can you explain the case on BV?

Wagon hopping, for the most part. And the one time he exhibits an actual thought it was full of crap. Though admittedly, not as bad as Midnight or Fate.

[bill1148]

Woah, L-2 already?! This wagon feels scummy. I think I'll go elsewhere :flipflop:

unvote
vote Midnight

[bill1148]

What do you want Zaz?

[bill1148]

Anyway, I'd like to have a little bit of mafia theory with you. One game says nothing about a player. I can give many examples. But to keep it short, I'll keep it with Chrono for now. How do you know he always plays like that as scum? How do you know he doesn't do the same as town? These can't be answered based upon one game.

Sure they can't, but it's still something to go on. Anyway, this is a bit of a strawman. Wagoners in general come off as scummy and Chrono isn't the only one I mentioned, other notables being bv and Midnight (Fate and inHim to a lesser extent). This is fairly irrelevant now, however, since Chrono is pretty much confirmed Town given his role, despite some scummy play (same as vezok).

Might have more on this later on, but for now, one question: How come you've never asked Chrono for his reason(s) to vote Quadz?

If a player doesn't give a reason in the post he votes, or if the reasons for the player they voted for aren't found at all in their previous posts, I assume they don't have a reason or it's a reason they'd prefer to keep to themselves (the latter being far less likely).

I'm also interested in hearing what your definition is when you state that somebody is being wagony

http://www.dictionary.com

lol jk

Wagony/wagoners/"jumping on the bandwagon"- name or reference for someone who agrees with the majority or the "popular" choice with little or no reasoning or under flawed/shoddy logic, usually in repeated occurrences.

Examples:
Poster A- *offers lengthy, in-depth analysis of [insert player's name]. Votes for that player.*
Poster B- "I agree with above poster. Vote [insert same player's name that Player A voted for]"

Poster A, C, D, E- Vote [insert player] under some sort of reasoning
Poster B- "I agree, that guy looks scummy. Vote [same player]"

In general, it's the mid-late wagon (around when a player is 2-4 votes from death, though this varies depending on the majority needed to lynch), as well as simply just being apart of every single successful lynching, and the voting for a player under no reasoning other than the "I agree" excuse, that I tend to look for. bv, Midnight, Fate, and to a lesser extent, inHim, are the biggest perpetrators here.

[bill1148]

In this post, we'll discuss your Quadz vote. Because earlier, you stated that you weren't quite ready yet to hop on the Quadz wagon. In that same post, you stated that you find him slightly suspicious for posting fluff in his long post. However, after that, Quadz has posted other things. So why did you vote Quadz now and what's your opinion of Quadz posts later on?

Already answered this.

I'm also not liking your 'defence' of xRECK.

Refute it then.

But there is one thing that's worse: Your FoS against BV. Just a little bit of research and you'd have known that he has posted V/LA in 4 games. This attack is terrible.

Finally, something I just noticed was bv's V/La post...

which ironically came directly after my post on him lurking

.

Perhaps its only coincidental, but I think its worthy enough to put an *official* FOS: bv on him.

Just a little bit of reading and you'd know the fact he claimed V/LA wasn't the point there.

---

Vote Count:

bv310: 3

(Chronopie, vezokpiraka, Midnight's Sorrow)

bill1148: 2

(Zazier, Fate)

PranaDevil: 1

(xRECKONERx)

inHimshallibe: 1

(KDub)

Fate: 1

(Glork)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(bill1148)

Not Voting:

bv310
inHimshallibe
PranaDevil
quadz08

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

August 11th - 3:00 AM EST

[bill1148]

DOWN FOR A VEZOK WAGON ALSO

Dear Fate,

Please explain the logic behind a mass roleblocker scum.

Thanks,
Bill

[bill1148]

Also, :megafail: by vezok.

There was NO reason for a role-claim. And apparently, someone can avoid it as Nero was still killed. Which means vezo can most certainly be killed on any night he uses the mass-block ability, since he'll be blocking our doc.

@ vezok
My suggestion, then, is to use the ability in a more random manner ie do not necessarily use it every second night phase. Mix it up. This way, if the un-blockable killer can kill again, they do not know when to target you for a sure kill. (ie, if you use it night 5 and scum targets you, you're dead. If you don't use it night 5 and scum targets you, they risk running into doctor protection.)

[bill1148]

Just did some quick reading but I think I'm at L-1. >< Were you guys seriously trying to shank me while I was gone?

I just got home from a 10 hour work shift and I'm exhausted. Will read and post thoughts later today.

[bill1148]

Alright, time to get this sh*t under control. Observing all votes against me, in chronological order (6 votes in total, L-1)

Bill, you're ignoring again.

Also, forgot to

VOTE: Bill

Pretty sure I know the reason even if he doesn't give one in this post.

That wagon was far too easy for scum Bv.

Also there's definitely two scum teams with that many easy votes.

LETS LOOK BACK AT WHO JUMPED ON:

bv wagon.
Something tells me it's a bad wagon. Anyway people voted for him. Nobody wants a MS or prana wagon so I will switch to bv
unvote
vote bv

lol works for me

.

Quadz is probably town.

Haven't really read Bill.

Unvote:
Vote: Bill

DOWN FOR A VEZOK WAGON ALSO

Admits to not having read me yet readily dumps a wagon vote on me. Green part is his acceptance of an uber-sh*tty post by vezok, then says he has no problem with a vezok wagon which makes no fucking sense. Seriously, if it weren't for Chrono's "MASON/COP HE'Z TOWN GUYZ!" I'd be voting for him today.

Unvote
Vote: Bill

about the 20th time he's done that.

^Good postin'

This came directly after Midnight's post. My reaction:

Excellent, So if you're town you've either condemned your partners, or you're attempting to set up the scums, who would likely know if you are as they would likely be part of your random group of town, and thus the only people who don't know of your plan to set them up is the town.

If you're scum you're just confusing town and using mason stuff to cover your tracks. Argh!

For the time I feel a Bill lynch may work for the best

I don't want to lynch a claimed mason, but christ on a bike you're making it hard Chrono. , but sort yourself out Chrono.

vote: Bill

Uh...yeah? :uberbadfuckingvote: Wagon vote dumped in the middle with NO reason.

FYI: Prana was in the mid-wagon on dramonic. Was completely absent Day 2 during that JP escapade.

Actually, I only have time for one.

Well that was weird.

JP dies at a measly 4 votes for whatever reason. It might have been some sort of automatic ability for him, where if lynched he dies at less votes (to counterbalance other abilities, I'm sure). In which case, some +town points for all four who voted for JP (Reck, Midnight, vezok, inHim). I don't think scum would, with the knowledge that their partner was going to die at such few votes, be willing to throw a vote on him. Being that a) No Town player would be aware of an early death, and as such no suspicion comes to those who didn't vote for scum and b) little reason to throw an early vote on a player where there is virtually no case for him. He is gone for most of Day 1, then when he returns when the Day is nearly over. Day 2 he dies before he even gets on here. I think he made a total of like 3 posts this entire game. Again, not much suspicion goes to those who didn't vote for him.

Anyone else think it's likely bill is the executioner? Read it again.

Besides the fact that you're pointing to the part of my post which doesn't have sh*t to do with an executioner, I fail to see what your point is. I was speculating of completely plausible scenarios (which others besides myself have considered, mind you), though I too am inclined to believe that this scenario is far less likely than the executioner one. Your logic is pissy and shoddy at best.

And ah yes, another wagon vote from you. Counting dram & JP, that pretty much exhibits the fact that every vote from you has been on a late wagon.

Thinking about it that post of bills is written like he knows what happened. Either he is the executioner or one of the scumbudies of JP.
This can't go wrong.

unvote
Vote bill

...

To sum it up, there is no case against me. Only people with actual reasons are Zaz & inHim. Zaz' is an understandable vote, but inHim uses some pretty shoddy reasoning. Every other vote is a sheep vote.

[bill1148]

I'd be up for that. I guess. But the neighbourhood is going to get real quiet. wait, what am I saying, it has Reck and Fate.

I pity you. That much CAPS has to make the eyes bleed after a while.

Anyway, back from V/LA. I'm caught up too, and as such, I'd like to

Vote: InHim

2 NKs so far have been from my Party, and InHim is the least talkative. I'm also highly suspicious of Bill. He's acting way too similar to how he acted in SE: I, in which he was scum

.

Also, Chrono's claim would be shockingly overpowered. But, given the roles in past SE games, that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

What? How much someone talks in the neighborhood is irrelevant. But if you want to be technical, you and me included both rarely talk there. In fact as far as I can tell only Devo, Nero, and Zaz were doing any talking (for future ref., our neighborhood consists of

Devo

,

Nero

, Zaz, bill, inHim, bv). Looking for why Devo & Nero died based on neighborhood interactions is pretty stupid, both were quite talkative/contributive during the Day Phase and both could have had a million reasons for their being killed. Glork basing Nautillus being killed based on neighborhood intereactions feels slightly more accurate since Nautillus wasn't seriously contributing anything during Day. Not even going to bother with something as trivial as the last sentence of blue. And also, the first part about "2NKs so far have been from my party" makes it sound like you *know* two NKs have been coming from the same faction. Otherwise, it is irrelevant if one kill came from one faction and another kill came from another faction, since the connection is lost between patterns of kills to their respective killers.

But nice vote.

After reading through Bill's iso, he does feel somewhat scummy... I'm honestly not terribly sure why, though.

I think there's a possibility he's scumbuddies with Reck, if he is scum. isos #4 and 5 are brief questions, while #8 is protecting him. It's far from convincing, but it just stood out to me for whatever reason.

I await a response from Bill to the votes on him. He's at L-2, if my count is correct.

And on a side note, Chrono & Vezok are AWFUL town

[bill1148]

FYI: Prana was in the mid-wagon on dramonic. Was completely absent Day 2 during that JP escapade.

Way to go there Bill mah boy, if you'd also paid attention I went V/LA during night 1, and PM'd Kise about it (he states I'm V/LA in his post returning from night), and I'm still V/LA when the lynch happens. Ergo it's hardly surprising I was absent, I was nowhere near an internet connection for that period.

Never said you didn't V/LA and numerous other players were absent as well. I simply pointed out absence. In any case, that is a strawman. The first point still stands and it was the main one.

[bill1148]

To be honest, right now nobody is standing out to me as scum

Being that this is Day 3, I'd like to think that you have some idea who is scum. Here you are admitting that I do not "stand out as scum," yet you'll readily toss a wagon vote onto me?

You pulled me up over purely being concerned over JP's lynch, despite the fact I'd made my reasons obvious why I was concerned,

I said how I felt you sounded. I did not make a 10 page report on how you sound

over the internet

makes you scum.

you've also stated Vezo is pro-town after the claim, and then waited a while before saying that it was a terrible job for him to role claim, why did you feel the need to add that well after the claim had been said?

Perhaps a misunderstanding, but I still fully believe veok is pro-town.

How

he plays is another story, and there is not denying that claiming a fairly powerful ability when he had no reason to is dumb. As for "waiting too long after the claim to mention it," it took me a while to come to the realization that vezok would be blocking our doctor while simulataneously [possibly] allowing himself to be killed by an un-blockable killer, hence my concern. Though I am surprised no one had come to that realization before I did.

EBWOP.

Also, you may not have said I didn't V/LA, but you obviously chose not to mention it, and whether I'm V/LA and not posting, or supposedly active and not posting makes a huge difference.

I'll re-phrase:

I don't give a flying fuck that you were absent Day 2. It's something that doesn't help you nor hurt you. It was there mostly for the purpose of pointing out to anyone who was going to ask "who'd he wagon Day 2?"

[bill1148]

Why is

Midnight

not lynched yet?

Unvote
Vote: Inhim

Fixed.

[bill1148]

Did you

really

just hammer vote, Prana? Seriously?

I swear to god if you just killed a townie...

[bill1148]

I swear to fucking god, if you goddamn wagoners are *really* townies then you're pretty sh*tty ones. I hope to hell inHim isn't a Cop or doctor or any other good town role.

[bill1148]

inHimshallibe: (KDub, bv310, Midnight, Fate, vezok, Reck, Prana)

[bill1148]

What two, Fate?

[bill1148]

If inHim flips Town, Midnight/Prana NEED to die.

[bill1148]

Me and bv very briefly touched upon quadz in our neighborhood last night. Unfortunately, I was unexpectedly absent for the last 2 days and as such we weren't able to go in-depth on him, but prior to that I did some heavy reading on quadz.

One thing I took note of was Nero's comment on the existence of an executioner, during Day 1 (post 139). And as everyone is aware, JP gets shanked pretty quickly and dies Day 2 via execution. I am willing to bet that Nero was night killed due to this. The connection from this to quadz is simple but a bit sketchy: he directly quotes Nero's post about executioner, though leaves out the executioner part (post 460), during the latter part of Day 2. If this fits, it'll fit with Glork's prior analysis that quadz is part of the team opposite of inHim's. Looking for any quadz connections, I'll agree with Glork again and say that Zaz seems to fit most.

I did in fact find quadz suspicious during most of Day 1 from a variety of vague statements/blind agreeances/etc but backed off due to Glork's :hestownguaranfuckinteit: crap. And his fence-sitting and not having done much as of late doesn't help, either.

I have no problem with jumping wagon this time.

vote quadz

[bill1148]

4) Who are your top suspects at this exact moment? Which scumgroup do you think those players are in? Why do you suspect those players?

I'm thinking

bill

and bv are the scummiest.

They've made what amounts to no contribution to this game.

[bill1148]

First, going to agree that it's 2:2:6. If it's 1:1:7 then the scum must have some powerful abilities.

Going to say scumgroups are:

quadz/Zaz (JP's)
Midnight/bv/Kdub (inHim's)

Kdub is the least likely here though. Reck and Glork feel Town.

---

Vote Count:

quadz08: 4

(PranaDevil, KDub, Midnight's Sorrow, bill1148)

Glork: 1

(vezokpiraka)

Not Voting:

bv310
Glork
quadz08
xRECKONERx
ZazieR

Lynch:

6 votes.

Deadline:

August 17th - 11:30 PM EST

[bill1148]

QUESTIONS THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO PROVIDE INPUT ON:

1) What do you think of the masonry? Is there a Mason Cop out there? Could there be additional masons out there?

Not sure what a Juggernaut does.
It's possible that there's a Cop but it would seem overpowered.
At most, one more mason.

2) What do you think of Quadz? Specifically,

WHY

do you think he is town or scum?

Already answered.

3) What do you think of the numbers game? Are we at 2:2:6? 3:3:4? 1:1:8? Why do you think we have the current setup, and what do you think we need to do to bring home the victory?

This too.

4) Who are your top suspects at this exact moment? Which scumgroup do you think those players are in? Why do you suspect those players?

And this as well.

[bill1148]

If there's a Mason/Cop, I'm idly wondering whether they should claim, so that they could clear up some confirmed Town for us.

[bill1148]

Bill

, Zazie, Quadz, and either Prana or BV.

Those are probably your four remaining scums. If Quadz flips scum, I will consider the outside possibilty that Reck is scum. Midnight seems ok enough, KDub is kind of a wild card. I don't strongly dislike any of his posts, but he has been REALLY quiet, which brings me back to SquareEnix 1 and makes me worry a bit.


KDub, if you're town, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contriute more. I want to know who you think the scummmsssss are.

Glork's spidey senses are tingling...

[bill1148]

bill:
I suggested the same, but I think they should only claim if they have at least one confirmed result among the players still alive.

What I meant.

[bill1148]

This town blows.

[bill1148]

I think I'll respond to Prana's neighborhood stuff first:

I note that his ISO 6 says that Dram needs to be looked into, but then ISO 8 says Reck isn't scum with Dram, but it's "possible" he is only interested in keeping Dram around to play more with him... then suggests we should trust Reck (which I take to mean not lynching Dram), trying to keep appearing pro-town when Dram gets lynched?

I could not have *known* that dram was going to be lynched, and at the time of those comments, quadz was the one being lynched. During that day phase, I believe I agreed with Devo's analysis on quadz and as such I threw a vote on him, while at the same time saying I wanted to put a temporary town read on reck/dram (which was against what Prana was saying; Reck wasn't offering a logical reason that dram was town, so Prana voted Reck)

ISO 17 has him saying if JPs ability was automatic then those on his wagon should get +town points. This was before we knew there was an executioner. So I'm actually suspicious of those he singled out as getting pro-town points there. An attempt to make his team mate(s) seem better by association with a scum lynch?

I was trying to account for all possible scenarios, though I admitted later that it felt fairly weak. And if the scenario I presented was true, then I would stand by those comments because I don't think his own team would gangrape him so quickly under the knowledge he would die in fewer votes.

ISO 18 has him stating Vezo "is" town purely by claim alone. Now while I'm willing to currently give Vezo the benefit of the doubt, I honestly wouldn't suggest he's 100% town at this stage. Which to me suggests either Bill knows Vezo is town

Even if I were scum, I can't *know* whether someone is town or not. There are players I believe to be town, and I believed vezok to be town based purely on ability. Same as Chrono. I said on numerous occassions that that vezok/Chrono were playing very shitty but called them town because I simply couldn't see how their abilities would be for scum (in Chrono's case, it'd be that a Mason fake-claim would be a terrible claim late in the game).

, or they banked on using the ability as a way of appearing pro-town. This increases my suspicion of a Vezo/Bill scum team there (which also suggests they're not with JP & Quadz, but instead are with InHim... who incidentally was on the JP wagon too, hmmm)

Bill, meanwhile, was not on JP wagon.

ISO 26 Bill only now comes out and talks about how poor the judgement was on a mass roleblocker revealing themselves... despite having made a few posts between the reveal and this post. Which smells of "Ooops, best make a comment on it".

Or it smells of ACCOUNTING FOR ALL POSSIBLE SCENARIOS. I answered this earlier, btw. I've never seen a mass roleblocker scum who can block other scum kills (possibly his own).

ISO 28 he runs through everyone on his wagon and tries to state how all of their reasons are poor. Even so far as to point out I was completely absent day 2, despite the obvious fact I was V/LA, and despite his argument to the contrary, it was obviously placed there in an attempt to make me appear scummy.

Also that post shows InHim suggesting Bill was the executioner... possibly a chance to try and distance at the last minute? He even says InHim has reasons... but then dispells them as "shoddy reasoning".

I was the one being lynched at that time. NOT inHim. In fact, if I recall, the only vote on inHim at that time was Kdub's.

ISO 42 Is suggesting that if there's a mason cop they should claim, blatant role fishing under the guise of revealing town players. Considering at this stage at best there would be 2 reveals (remember night 2 had the mass RB) that would be a pretty poor choice to reveal right there.

No, it wouldn't. IF there existed a Cop, and IF they had a scum read on someone, at this stage in the game, they should have come out and said so. BTW, kdub suggested the same thing.

[bill1148]

Fuck it, I don't know. I'm just going to repost the exchange and let you all decide what you think.

Seriously, everyone, go back and look at Zazie's posts. I was uberconvinced that he is scum, until I realized that he has been 100% offsite for over a week. Now I'm just "mostly sure." Either way, we need to put a lot of pressure onto Zazie/Replacement tomorrow. Get them to take firm stances and commit to suspicions. Same goes for BV, except I think he's more actively lurking than Zazie. Bill still feels wrong to me. I feel like his posts are of similar ilk to SE1... I'd love to see some input from you guys on Bill's posts (specifics) tonight.

Would have to respectfully disagree, at least, in an overall sense.

During the first four day phases on SE1, I pretty much sheeped through the entirety of that game, only I was pretty conspicuous about it. Only during the the last day phase, when it was lonely little me against 4 rival scum, did I go into :SuperAggressiveMode:

[bill1148]

On the subject of "Prana checked Bill so that makes him scum" nonsense:

During DAY 3, Prana admits that "no one stands out as being scummy" (post 623).

Thus indicating Prana had not checked me by that point. Which means, the ONLY time he could have checked me between then and now and received a result was NIGHT 3. BUT HE VOTES FOR QUADZ THE NEXT DAY.

That said, I'll admit that it

appears

based on the QT that he had planned on checking me next.

[bill1148]

From QT:

Hey I have an idea. What if I don't roleblock tonight. The scums may be certain that I will block and kill nobody. And I can use again the next day?
What do you think of this guys?
Also I need the doc protect if this is the plan.

I think the scums would be stupid to not send in a night kill regardless.

I know damned sure if I was scum I'd be sending in a kill every night whether I knew you would be mass RB'ing or not, just in case you did decide otherwise.

The only difference would be if the ability was restricted in some form (every other night, only even/odd nights etc.)

You're also then of the assumption the doc is in this town, and if they're not (say it's Reck) then nobody could tell them to be 100% sure they protect you.

I say use the RB regardless, it moves us into day phase guarenteed. Hell, I'd only be suggesting your plan to you if I was scum with you, purely to screw with town, as it wont screw with scum.

Vezo, why would you not use it? The only one it wouldn't have worked on would have been Fate, but he's gone so your free to use it without anyone dying

....and thats a good thing yes? .-.

Block tonight. There is NO question about it. We cannot afford to risk losing anybody due to scumkills if you can in fact block everybody. If you do not block tonight, then I will assume that you are a One-Shot Scum Massblocker, and that you used your ability to try to "confirm" your alignment early on in the game. Do I make myself absolutely clear? You are not to be trusted with making ANY important decisions yourself for the rest of this game.

vezo, you should definitely mass roleblock tonight. Having effectively two day phases in a row is extremely valuable. We want that to happen as often as possible.

Still waiting on Vezo to confirm that he is going to massblock tonight.

Hi guys.
I hope I can use the mass roleblock. We will know after the day begins.

I call 100% bullshit on Vezo. We told him THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT, and he posted

A FULL DAY BEFORE THE THREAD OPENED

that he "hoped" he would be able to send in his ability.


Complete and utter bullshit.


There is

NO

doubt that Vezo is scum. He WILL be lynched today. But we're not going to fall into the same trap as we did yesterday. I want posts from Zazie and BV. I want each of them to name the last two scums for us, and I want each of them to give us FULL details on WHY those to players are the last two scums.

[bill1148]

LOL

vote vezok

Still waiting on Zaz...

[bill1148]

If you think I think him town based on his play, then the simple answer would be no.

What makes me pause, is his whole ability outright.

I can't wrap my mind over it being a scum power, no matter how I try to. It just doesn't make sense.

Welcome to two day phases ago.

Thing is, his ability itself doesn't purely mean he is town anymore. Quadz had an investigative role, which is 9/10 a Town role. On top of which, his play has been super terrible since his introduction and last night's contradiction seems to have sealed him.

Thw whole thing makes me go "umm..wtf? Uh lets slow down now shall we?"

Not something I expected to hear out of the biggest flipflopper and wagoner in the game.

I am the first to vote vezok so I don't see the problem. It's not like I just hammered him without question like others have done in previous Day Phases. BTW, Reck has voted two or three times already, yet you voted me for voting vezok in part because we're "going too fast?"

[bill1148]

lol, Glork and Midnight argued for like 3 pages.

[bill1148]

Zazie PM'd me ONCE AGAIN BUT ISN"T POSTING COME ON ZAZIE POST BECAUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE IVE BEEN PMING YOU

I remember getting a PM in which you state that I was getting replaced. Afterwards, I check the thread and see that I am replaced. So don't blame me for not posting.
Anyway, I'm catching up in all my games. So I hope to get to this game either tomorrow or friday. But it's good to see that a Vezok lynch might happen.

I haven't seen the posts that were made while I was absent, but based on those a Vezok lynch is good, whereas a bv not.lynch is

You'll hear it later if this has changed or not.

lol

When's the deadline?

[bill1148]

he [vezok] probably most likey

would

be on Jp/guadz team, just for the simple fact that if he

is

a scum roleblocker that his team would be able to get a kill in, and most likely either

didn't

or they did, but they hit the Mito Godfather.

What makes you say that?

[bill1148]

Riku from KH, Vanilla.

[bill1148]

Will post when I get home from work.

[bill1148]

For the beginning of his posting, he tunnels on me for minor points

Explain to me how the points were "minor," in detail, and then explain to me how me putting a FOS on you in passing counts as "tunneling."

, and dismisses the original pressure on Quadz (iso 6)

Link to the post or quote what I said. If I recall, all I said was that I didn't like Quadz play but he wasn't a top suspect (I think I mostly wanted Chrono dead at the time).

only to change within a few days to the following: http://mafiascum.net/forum/posting.php? ... &p=2389554 (iso 13).

:yes: And I see no problem with that post.

Then, his chastising of Prana in iso 33 to me just REEKS of scum trying to earn townie cred.

Explain.

[bill1148]

An interesting catch my ass Kdub.

I'm laughing my ass off all the way across the world here.

It

is

a stupid reason to vote someone..

Oh, please share with us a good reason to vote for someone, oh-great-and-almighty-king-of-flip-floppers.

[bill1148]

I'm like 99% sure bv and Midnight are the last scum. I'm torn between which to vote for first, in the off chance Kdub turns up scum.

[bill1148]

vote bv

[bill1148]

My my, This certainly caught my eye in a re-read.

Glork. Explain to me why you arn't dead after D-3 interactions with Fate. Especially after he said quite cleary he was going to NK you, and his opinion of you hadn't changed at all that day.

If you callin' me scum now's the time to do it while

Glork's

still alive

(I'm NKing him tonight btw, his tunneling is going to make me slip sooner or later)

I"VE GOT NOTHIN TO HIDE BABY

He is a Juggernaut, which is basically a vig who can bypass role-blocks and doctor protects. He was clearly your target, there should be no question about that, as he quite clearly said he thought you scum. There also should be no question that he would not have gotten a kill in, just because he died. He would have, because even if you die, if you have a kill target, it goes down with them as well. So how'd you do it I wonder?

That's bogus. Just because someone says it in the thread doesn't mean they'll actually do it. Besides, reading that comment gives me the inclination that Fate was "jokingly" saying that he was, in fact, scum and that he was going to kill Glork. Fate was desperately trying to hide his role (hence his voting for his own mason partner, Chrono), and he would not have just come out and expliciably said who he was going to off that night. It'd be too risky.

[bill1148]

Yeah, Glork pretty much covered all of the basics of what needs to be done in the case that bv turns up town. IF bv flips town (which I'm still skeptical on, despite his claim), then I'd really really really really really really like Midnight to shoot Kdub because he'd be the other scum (hence the crosskills resulting in our Town win), although Glork will disagree with me.

That quote from fate came off as odd in a re-read trying to determine who the last scums were. I'm still of the mind that is kdub/bill.

Bill being the Geo and Kdub being the Mito

Why do you believe me to be

specifically

Geo and why do you believe Kdub to be

specifically

Mito?

[bill1148]

Man, this Town play is one of the worst I've seen in a long time. dram, Fate, Chrono, Midnight v.1, (possibly) bv, and to a smaller extent Prana, all played like garbage. That's like half the frickin' town. Ridiculous.

[bill1148]

And there is no way that there is two scum withing the same neighborhood at this point<though this is undoubtedly a mute point

WHY do you keep saying that? That makes no FOOKING sense. The neighborhoods were RANDOMIZED. Under such logic, it is impossible for anyone remaining in the game to be scum, since every neighborhood has had a scum in it.

[bill1148]

Post 1063

[bill1148]

Good game, good game...

[bill1148]

Thoughts:

-Midnight v2/Zaz, from a player perspective, was far more scummy than Kdub. There were some minor scum-tells that I read (though I won't mention). I will say this though, the big thing was the claim: Sigmund, a sword user. I was well aware that both of the players with abilities on the scum teams weren't given fake-claims. Midnight v2's claim didn't fit with "slashed repeatedly."
-my name was mentioned a lot in the QT. Approximately 48 times, in fact. Most of it pretty nasty ("That bastard Bill"..."kill that mothrfcker"...)
-too many power roles concentrated onto too few Town players (again)
-still dislike the 2 scum-team system. I have played approximately 5 games where 2 scum teams existed in my long "large theme park" mafia career (only 2 at this site, however). Town record in those 5 is 3-1-1. Bottomline, the end result is mostly dependant on crosskills.
-It's difficult for me to nominate a Player of the Game. Personally, I think Kdub/myself played the best here, but we both lost so that's irrelevant. Glork certainly didn't play his best game, but compared to the rest of town...eh, POG to Glork.

[bill1148]

Glork, I would have liked to have killed you, but I feared doc protection. I was also afraid of killing you in the same night that the other scum team killed you, though it didn't matter since that happened with Prana anyway.

[bill1148]

^EBWOP And I am assuming Kdub didn't kill you because you had a good Town read on him.

[bill1148]

Nautillus/Elli/whatever, you were killed because vezok said they was a good chance that you were scum on Day 1 due to QT comments. You suggested the existence of two scum teams of three. Given it was Day 1, I didn't care who we killed.

Fate, you were killed because of Chrono's list. We knew you or Prana was the Cop (with the other being the Cop check target). Since you weren't the Cop, we knew it had to be Prana so we killed him next.