Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Iecerint]

Hiya guys @ Andy, Furco, VP...and the DGB/Katsuki hydra O_O.

And 1/2 the player list or so.

This game is Kingdom Hearts-tier with regard to the length, so it may take me awhile. Also, I can't read through the game in earnest until Thursday (I have a little quiz tomorrow I'm not prepared for yet), but I'll post notes from a readthrough ASAP.

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I've noticed that my predecessors (!) claimed things. If my slot has any outstanding claims to make, please indicate it.

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I am extremely interested to learn what rhetoric anyone supplied to argue that a player's flip was not necessary.

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Far be it from me to fathom the mind of manho.

I have no idea what he's going for in that first quote of yours (I think he meant "let's let the cults guess," though it's not clear where he was coming from there). With regard to content per se, I do think manho is a player who tends to make shorter posts in general, and he lurks. He's not a player who posts a lot of detailed analysis. That's my guess on "iso shows MoI town."

BUT, I am only on page 2, though, so I'm reading your examples out of context. I read during class this morning. This is what my notes say up to that:

Page 1

1. I have not heard Noise either night.

2. This is my second Stars Aligned game -- I was in SA2 -- but I was Murdered N1 in that game. I still followed SA2 to the end, but I didn't bother keeping track of all the complex rule discrepancies players claimed as I followed along, though.

3. Noise claims are pretty necessary to keep things straight and spot discrepancies later on. hito's rhetoric shows lack of familiar with the Ward action. Weakly implies that he is scum, since scum are on average maybe slightly less familiar with the Ward action. On the other hand, scum have daytalk.

4. Who's the other half of LostButterfly...? <_<

5. OK, so. It looks like Furco is scum on D1 for lying about Noise/Ward. This is not an error Investigators would make, especially since he follows up by saying that it should be rectified. So why is he still alive?

6. Oh. A mod error. Town on Furco, now and forever. I bet he heard noise N1.

Page 2

7. Furco is silly in 27. Searching for an RK is the ideal action for pretty much every player. But he is still town.

8. MoI's 29 looks scummy. Lots of irrelevant stuff -- no reason to discuss Murderers that don't exist, except to point out that it is a move for players who don't care about winning if taken early, etc. -- and a smear on townFurco.

But I won't have a real chance to sit and read everything until later tonight at the earliest. I have to prepare some cases for a quiz tomorrow.

I did glance through manho's iso and that of that Hungarian fellow back then, but I couldn't get much out of it out of context.

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I suppose I'll figure out why you think manho is scum in a few hours or so.

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We didn't have Dispatch in SA2, but, looking over the rules, I don't see any reason not to use it liberally. What am I missing?

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Dispatch doesn't appear to give Corpse Dust, though.

Violating any of these rules will result in a punishment according to their severity, from a private or public rebuke up to and including a Soul Rip. Players who have their soul ripped from their bodies will spend eternity as a plaything for the gods, while their bodies remain as a shattered shadow of what once was. Their role becomes Soulless, and count as a Neutral Survivor for the purposes of other Win Conditions. They lose the ability to post publicly in the thread, to post in The Sanctum if they were a Cultist, and lose their Night Action. They may still be targetted by other players' Night Actions. During subsequent Days, living players may post Dispatch: Playername at any time, and if a majority of living players do so, the Soulless player immediately becomes Dead. A successful Rob Grave action will reveal the player's alignment just prior to the Soul Rip. Soul Rips may be accompanied by a change in phase, at the discretion of the Moderator.

So, dispatch doesn't end the day; the only effect is that whoever flips.

Granted, this seems like a silly mechanic as I understand it, so I think I'm missing something.

This will probably become clear when I read the thread, but ye know.

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OHOHOH.

I guess it depends upon whether NSs count toward the scum wincon or not. I'd been assuming that they weren't counted, since modkilled players are normally considered removed from the game. If they ARE, that can make the decision a little more complicated.

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Oh. Then idk why Percy didn't just flip them to start. Seems silly.

Whatever. I'll read and post tomorrow sometime, or Friday at the latest.

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Hi everyone! I've been reading. Here are my notes through page 20: -_-

Notes on SA3

Page 1

1. I have not heard Noise either night.

2. This is my second Stars Aligned game -- I was in SA2 -- but I was Murdered N1 in that game. I still followed SA2 to the end, but I didn't bother keeping track of all the complex rule discrepancies players claimed as I followed along, though.

3. Noise claims are pretty necessary to keep things straight and spot discrepancies later on. hito's rhetoric shows lack of familiar with the Ward action. Weakly implies that he is scum, since scum are on average maybe slightly less familiar with the Ward action. On the other hand, scum have daytalk.

4. Who's the other half of LostButterfly...? <_<

5. OK, so. It looks like Furco is scum on D1 for lying about Noise/Ward. This is not an error Investigators would make, especially since he follows up by saying that it should be rectified. So why is he still alive?

6. Oh. A mod error. Town on Furco, now and forever. I bet he heard noise N1.

Page 2

7. Furco is silly in 27. Searching for an RK is the ideal action for pretty much every player. But he is still town.

8. MoI's 29 looks scummy. Lots of irrelevant stuff -- no reason to discuss Murderers that don't exist, except to point out that it is a move for players who don't care about winning if taken early, etc. -- and a smear on townFurco.

Page 3

9. Leaning town on xvart from 52-53 (he posts the Noise bit and corrects RC). The list itself is nullish, but the post before it is also good.

10. Is D1 going to end in an RC lynch? Cuz idk about this "why I want Furco alive" rhetoric. That is old news. May be scumtalk telling someone to point it out without noticing its been done.

[cheats]

Yeah...no IC, though, so idk.

10. Benmage is aggressively dumb in 55. Kunkstar is scum for wanting to lynch Fate. Then he votes Fate. Dunno what the "I didn't hear noise" claim is about.

11. OH. OK. So why the hell are both Benmage and Fate still alive? EDIT: Wait, why the hell does Benmage stalking Fate have to do with anything.

12. Fate is female?

13. Why does everything think Fate is scum?

14. Also, why would Benmage want to wagon someone he'd just stalked...? <_<

15. Also, why would ANYONE stalk N1, since town can only Stalk once? EDIT: Oh, right; Benmage is just a dummy.

16. LB echos my feelings in 83.

17. OK...why we got RC over Benmage is getting ugh.

18. OMG IT'S FARADAY OR MAYBE FARSIDE OR SOMETHING WITH MINA OMG HI MINA. <3

19. God I want to kill Benmage. Not because he's cult, though.

20. Seacore 130 is scummy. While it's true that killing Benmage is tempting, there's no real reason to do it prematurely.

(I've stopped bothering with pages now. I'll put little pages in occasionally, but I may forget.)

21. RC apparently DID hear noise (via rewq). Question is who's more likely to freak out in the thread when that happens. Not sure I know.

22. META-THOUGHT

I just realized that Fate definitely didn't Stalk N1, so he was probably proper scum (unless he got petty and stalked N1). But lots of people irrationally thought Fate was scum D1. Possible really fail distancing? I can't remember who did it, though.

23. sottyrulez gets scumpoints for whining about discourse not being productive.

Page 8

24. @ hito I think Murders and NKs have distinct flavor, so that wouldn't work (178). Also, you're forgetting the opportunity cost of missing a resuscitation kit.

ALSO, YOU'RE FORGETTING THAT FATE IS NOT NECESSARILY CULT.

ALERT ALERT ALERT. SCUM SCUM SCUM.

Vote: hitogoroshi

25. MoI is very wrong in 187. I mean, what he STATES is accurate, but he's ignoring really important information. Furco is town.

26. Yeah, SK wouldn't take Suicidal for sure...it's an impossible win. Of course, he could just be lying.

27. Vox failing to accept FurcoTown looks bad.

28. rewq is not reading the rules carefully enough.

PAGE 10

29. Good catch from Furco. AureusVox made the same error as hito before. Possible scum connection, if someone posted to make this error to appear town. I remember discussion about lack of familiarity with the rules looking town in SA2.

30. RC's certainty that BM is scum looks bad. So does his thought that both are scum (245) . Those are both unlikely cases. If Fate flips scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see RC flip scum-who-found-resus-kit.

31. SX is. Uh. Idk.

32. RC's vote for SeaCore kinda makes sense, though. I guess. What the hell did Seacore mean back there, anyway? I don't remember someone making that claim.

33. OMG ANDY <3<3<3<3<3 Even though implying Furco is not confirmed town is scummy, because the only way anyone would EVER think that at this point is if they were scum with him.

34. I will write SX/Fate slash someday.

35. @ Andy -- I think Furco's gotten better since SA2. A little. I know he made a solid effort in Holy Orders, for example.

36. I am disappointed with Andy's catch-up post, by and large. Please be town, Andy.

37. I agree with Mina or Faraday or whoever the hell LB is in that post. EDIT: I think it's Faraday

38. VDV's comeback post is really bad. Ignores TONS of stuff; votes someone with like 1 post. Who'd voted scum (probably).

THOUGH: If it looked like Fatescum was going to die, you'd think scum would try to distance from him a little more. But then there's so much irrational chainsawing going on protecting him so idk.

39. WTF WHY DO PEOPLE NOT GET THAT FURCO IS CONFIRMED TOWN GOD. @ BABY SPICE 292.

40. Now Plum's doing the same thing as VDV...I dunno...I suppose I might've thought Fate was town in context...

41. RC's 298 doesn't make sense. If someone claimed a Ward on you, that means you won't die, cuz it would show that they didn't really Ward you.

42. I JUST NOTICED THAT BABY SPICE'S AVATAR IS MR. TENNANT. YAY.

43. HOWEVER: Warding at random seems dumb. I'd think naive town would search for items.

44. Now everyone is careening away from my reads...as DGB says VDV is town...

45. Furco -- I think Plum played to her scum meta as I understand it in your Greek Mythology mafia. Or I'm pretty sure that was your game...

EDIT: It was DeathNote. BUT -- that's a game I'd flip through. I called her scum mostly on the basis of meta there and was correct.

46. Why does Andy have a high opinion of CSL? I don't know Tripod, though. Another player supporting a Bowser wagon on the basis of literally nothing. I don't get it.

47. gj finding BMtown, tho.

48. Andy is super-cute, but his post is not very pro-town...

49. Y'know, Bowser may actually be scum distancing from Fate, if that's what scum decided to do. idk. CSL's Unvote post (344) looks really dumb.

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FASCINATING FACT: MY SLOT HAS YET TO POST.

50. Mina-my-super-town-friend-half-of-LB returns. <3

51. Not sure why Mina doesn't like MoI/Spy/Andy for possible scum...SX is a little iffy, but that's all.

52. I love that she is the ONLY ONE to share my view of Bowser. I even thought everyone was being weird about Bowser BEFORE I knew that Bowser was CSL. <_<

53. VDV has the WORST SCUMLIST EVAR in 390. WORST EVAR. HORRIBLE.*

* I suppose he could add Furco to make it a little worse.

54. Hmm. I wonder what Andy will list as his scum meta re: Wicked...

55. THERE'S the Furco I know and love. <3

56. But seriously Furco, LB is definitely Town.

57. I think "Drippereth" is unambiguously intended for the Dripp+Katsu hydra.

BUT, Percy should probably confirm whether "Drippereth" pregame would have defaulted to El Goosuki. That kind of ability resolution stuff should be known to the players.

I still think Furco is near 100% Town based on someone's (Seacore's?) prior claim that Elli and Drip post outside the hydra in QTs. As such, there's no extra reason for Furco to make that mistake as scum. There IS a greater chance of him lying, but that's separate.

A thought: since Seacore knows this well enough to bring it up, you'd think he'd be more hesitant to lynch Furco. Slightly odd play there.

58. Furco's claim that Mina intentionally posted as Mina is LOL-tastic. Oh man.

Also: you're asking about pragmatics, not semantics.

59. I love you, Furco.

60. God, SSBF tries to 1-up VDV with an awful scumlist. Seriously. idk wtf is going on with you people. I guess RC is kinda scummy, tho.

61. Oh man. I will write Furc/all slash.

62. idk why Percy won't just confirm Furco's request. We're outguessing Percy to determine Furco's alignment regardless of whether hes the extra mile. Whatever.

PAGE 20

63. I really don't think LB is scum, Furc. I mean, I do have an irrational affection for Mina, but still.

64. SSBF is scummy (491). Possibly a weak distancing MoI, since his attitude there doesn't jive with his anti-Furc ideology.

65. Three cheers for AV voting MoI before it was cool! Yay! Maybe he's town after all.

66. Yeah..I like pretty much all his views. I still don't like hito's one point if Fate flips scum, though. AT ALL. But literally everyone all game (sans me) has been like OMG HITO <3<3 so I'm not gonna bitch too much about that.

67. Hito gets town points for saving Furcie. <3 He needs to explain that post from way back, though.

68.

HIGHLIGHTS:

hito, what's up with the part I voted you for? You make some definite town moves after that, but that part REALLY stuck out.

Scum right now are MoI/Seacore/VDV/SSBF, and maybe Andy, off the top of my head. Town reads on Furco, LB, DGB, Benmage, AV, xvart...idk, probably some others. I can answer specific questions people have. Note that the notes are just whatever came up chronologically as I read through, and I still have like 80% of the game to read.

Also, there have been 23 new pages since I joined the game. So that's just wonderful.

[Iecerint]

PAGE 21

INTERESTING NOTE: MY SLOT HAS YET TO POST.

69. Feysal is...first post?

MagnaofIllusion, kunkstar7, xvart, Baby Spice, Lost Butterfly, Seacore, Super Smash Bros. Fan

70. Don't know why LB thinks Seacore is town (534).

71. Mina is my super-town friend re: furco, though. I can blame all that weird crap on Faraday.

72. MoI's vote for AV continues the trend of his literally never targetting a player I don't think is town.

73. Kmd is in this game? Anyway, his response to hitogashi's example is bad. Retroactive scumpoints for him.

LOL AT THIS LITERALLY ALL BEING D1. MOTHER FUCKING GOD.

74. I thought Fate had thought Furc was town all along (560)?

75. AV <3

76. SX mocks what is literally my favorite post in the entire game so far (578).

77. BS thinking Furco is scum at this point is scummy. She was weakly defending him when his wagon looked golden.

78. I want to know why Plum is DGB's BaAaaaAA pipl (591).

79. I like Plum more again (599-600). Want DGB to say why she's no good.

80. OOH, xvart and BS have BOTH claimed a MoI Ward now...

Why didn't xvart claim this earlier when he was making the Wards list...?

Calling Furco scum makes xvart scum.

81. hito is town now. dunno wtf was up with that early-game post.

82. YAY FOR HITO USING ECON TALK. I LOVE THOSE FOLK. <3

83. LB is so town. I had the EXACT SAME IMPRESSION as him re: Baby Spice (638), but I'm still ambivalent about her.

84. FURCO. STOP TRYIGN TO LYNCH LB.

85. RC is less likely scum with Fate as of 718 or so. So too bad for the ultimate lynch, unless Fate stalked N1 like a dummy.

86. WTF RC's POST IS SO BAD 730 OMGWTFBBQ

87. SX introduces scumAdel's plan from SA2 AFAICT. But I liked the plan back then, I guess.

88. Really? I always assumed that Andy was at least queer. EDIT: OK, so I guess that doesn't not fit but.

89. I'm leaning town on VP, but the LBwagon is a bad idea.

90. xvart, however, is scum for joining said wagon (807).

91. I agree with Wicked's subsequent post 130%. We are twins!

92. OMG DGB DO NOT BE SCUM GOD. All my favorite players are scum this game. EDIT: Re:voting AV IIRC.

93. lolirl at Fate's 858 re: DGB. HOWEVER: DGB did lurk a lot as town in SA2, and I thought she was scum there until she flipped.

94. There's some real weirdness with all these posts complaining about a TIME PARADOX around here.

Also, stuff for a LOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNG time has just been commentary on earlier events. I am skimming. When's the fucking RC wagon gonna come... <_<

95. Yay! Maybe NP will say something novel in a few pages when he finally joins the game -_-

END OF PAGE 40

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Is there no way to jump to a specific page? Going over manually is extremely tedious.

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OK, I'm through page 80 now. Almost done. O_O

Please don't end the day before I finish. Back where I am, the grave robbing situation still seems a little sketchy. I would hope that SOMETHING was accomplished in the past 20 pages or so but ye know.

Here's my complete CD2 thing. No new information, but now you have it pretty:

CD2

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? No
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? No
List all of the insanities you currently have: None
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Were you murdered? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.) No
Twitch? No

PAGE 42 (41 was actually in the last set, I think)

96. I agree with NP's evaluation of the Furco wagon 110%.

97. AV's vote for EG is a little sad...I think EG is scummy, but she's not top-tier. idk.

98. Yeah...I can't really tell why everyone is gradually voting RC...I was hoping for something more dramatic...

99. Agree with Furco re: DGB. The only weird part is her AV vote, but that goes both ways.

100. @ AV

101. I pretty much agree with RC's post...I have no idea why he's been wagoned...

102. WHOAWHOAWHOAWHOA. Andy contradicts his old Noise claim in 1185...? EDIT: nvm i guess...

103. Furco not wanting to claim insanities is...umm...

104. I am retroactively nostalgic for the xvart counter-wagon.

BTW -- why the hell didn't RC flip...? Did Furco fuck up his grave robbery? I am annoyed.

105. Plum is towntown.

106. I've always thought VDV was scum, but SX's point about his point about not wanting to take insanities is noted.

107. Thank god that Furco manages to keep this readthrough bearable.

108. Wraith's post isn't very good...idk...and then he votes a player (El Goosuki) that there is a 0% chance will be lynched. And the case he makes is crappy ("they lurk").

109. VDV <3 for wanting to kill MoI.

110. Why is LB voting for manho? Mina's best wagon is someone who isn't playing the game? Really? (1483)

111. Wraith switching...to voting Benmage... (1505)

...

...

112. And then Fate does a big Benmage push.

113. God Wraith is so scummy it is ridiculous. I also recently D1 mislynched him but still.

114. Hmm. Benmage-awful wagon is buildingvia Fate. But analyzing it really depends on RC's flip.

115. Hito is my lover (1623), what with scandalously positing those D1 scumconnections.

116. Trilobite is not scum with MoI.

117. I like Trilobite in 1636. SX voting BM is serious business.

118. Hito is a man after my own heart for calling people out for being policemen (1646).

119. @ Furco I play Zerg poorly be my friend plz (1649).

120. God and now SX is trying to shift the focus to AV to confuse people, cuz I don't know why the hell he'd do it otherwise (1660).

121. AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. NOW it's clear why Furco didn't do the grave robbing.

122. Whoa. Neat that LB was scum or Murderin' or whatever. Did not expect it based on Mina's posts. Faraday's were a little odd, though.

123. Wicked is mostly confirmed probably, unless there's total insanity. Yay. He was one of the sane ones.

124. Here's what my D2 start post would have been:

CD2

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? No
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? No
List all of the insanities you currently have: None
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Were you murdered? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.) No
Twitch? No

125. xvart's plan was neat.

126. Trilobite's vote for Benmage (1740) makes NO SENSE. AT ALL. We know Benmage won't ever go Murderer now that he can't kill his target, and he's certainly not Cult.

There was also the slight weirdness of hito choosing Trilobite to Ward, of all people. Odd.

127. Also -- why did NP ask whoever whether they searched for tools twice? There are certainly other possibilities...and if he did FT N0, there was no better option, except to Ward.

128. OH, so the Corpse Dust is why Dispatching could be sketchy. Now that makes sense. But it's still fine. Picking 2 town to double grab should be fine.

Though, scum can ward at least some of them (but not all without forsaking NK, unless Fate is actually Town).

129. MoI's point about BM's night choice is valid. Why didn't he just kill Fate? Not allowed? I guess I'll find out. He's ignored the question so far. EDIT: Explanation is fine, I guess. Bonus points since he really is targeting Wraith. <3

130. Why in the name of all that is holy did DGB use Forensic Tools.

DGB, why the hell did you do that?

I am reading the entire thread after the fact. EVEN I KNOW YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

OMGUS.

131. AV remains a man or woman after my own heart (1773). I mean this is kind of policework more than scumhunting but GOD DRAW THE LINE SOMEWHERE.

132. Though SX's point on him is OK. He could've killed successfully if he was a Murderer, and we won't see evidence of that. I guess he could've reconsidered.

133. Feysal doubles up on Wicked with RK...

A thought: our successful resuscitators are bloody and insane already, so maybe we should make them the graverobbers. Or, at least, one of the mshould be NP. Feysal is a little sketchy.

ALERT: Since I now know that Fate "died" D1, it looks like he wasn't Cult, but a Murderer and all the mess from my earlier notes are invalid. Holy fuck. I am very annoyed.

134. Can't we double-graverob? It should just take two players to get everyone flipped. Or are we just worried about Wards?

135. Furco is good in 1798. But we're not lynching DGB, so I guess I'll find out why...

136. Hmm...but why did xvart Ward DGB if Furco already said he would?

137. Why is literally the ENTIRE TOWN hearing noise? This is absurd.

138. Is Rob Grave still a free action such that BenMage can Rob and also Murder? I'm all for him Murdering Wraith tbh.

139. I think different cultists can target the same player. As such, getting a fetish does NOT necessarily lead to kill immunity.

140. Christ, almost every single player in the game claimed Noise last night. Except for my lurker slot.

141. Wraith thinks there are two Murderers...why? Wicked could just as easily have been the scum target... (1893)

142. Not sure why Niki wants to lynch FT (1902). Lots of people irrationally want to lynch BM. Why does he ignore all those players?

143. Oh, NVM. NP shows me the actual post, and it is clear why it is terrible. (1906)

144. OMGWTF. ET TU, AV (1919). He wants to kill BM...why? WTF? Since when?

145. SHIT I TOTALLY MISSED HIS VOTE. I AM BLINDED BY LOVE. CHRIST. DON'T BE AN IDIOT.

146. I'm going to repeat VP's scumlist in 1921, because it is extremely excellent:

MoI
Furpants Tom
Wraith
Baby Spice
El Goos

147. Re: Trilobite's comment...does scum ward GRAVES, or PLAYERS-WHO-WARD. Cuz I'd assumed the former, but it seems like the latter would be more fair. idk. nightmare.

148. TNM is towntown. Players whining about BM not claiming his actions (including my predecessor) are confused or scum.

149. Wraith continues to make senseless scumlists in 1959 (except for DGB, who is scum or sort of not paying attention).

150. Wraith actually makes a decent point about BM in 1967, though. I suppose a short list from BM might be a good idea. BUT:

151. But then he sucks again in 1968...because BM could Murder Fate and the flavor would show up. And that would be a huge bluff for scumBM to make. And c'mon, it's BM.

152. I agree with Plum in 1974...Seacore has been well-behaved lately.

153. God, I want Wraith dead.

154.

[Iecerint]

154. OK so -- just realized that NP isn't confirmed town, since cult knows their kill failed for SOME reason. So it could just as easily be flipped. I still think NP is town, though...but it's not enough to beat BM robbing at least 1 grave (not new info).

155. Wicked is mistaken in 2033. Bloody claims can be derived from the information claimed by players. If Forensic tools discover unexplained blood, it will still come out. The only effect of Blood status claims is that it will make scum less likely to slip up AFAICT.

156. Agree with VP about Magna (2066).

157. Manho is a total idiot (2088, where he thinks MoI is town).

158. Manho voted BM yesterday? Really? I missed it...that would be more idiocy. EDIT: Oh, AV is incredulous about thinking BM ISN'T cult? WTF AV. Go back to being AV from D1, please.

159. Oh, gross. Manho. How could you do this to me? <_<

Good thing there are so many scummy players.

160. I do agree with Trig about MoI->Furc TO AN EXTENT. MoI got really pissy when we lynched him over scumFurc in Brave and the Beautiful. I could see feelings spilling over to his early play here.

BUT, I still think he's probably cult due to other factors.

161. @ Baby Spice -- DGB is (well, used to be) extremely manipulative. The W/E bro attitude is a new thing. Same goes for Elli. Katsu is VI.

162. I have to say that I have a hard time believing that DGB and Elli would just flat-out err like that. I really do.

163. @ Fate 2170 -- no, it's different. The fact that 2 players targeted Plum AND there was no scum kill strongly implies that Wicked is town. He also seemed town yesterday. You have to posit a huge conspiracy otherwise.

164. DGB's unvote in 2200 is a towntell for her in context, unless she perceived that MoI would go on to lynch without her (or they're both scum).

165. Hooray for Wraith votes...but BM is going to kill him, anyway (we assume), so it's a little silly (2225).

166. VDV -- why the hell is Wraith not scum?

167. NVM. He answers this is 2269 ("rewq's iso 1 => Wraith town"). EDIT: rewq's iso 1 states that the rules do not state how many players are scum. Thesis is that scum would not screw this up (unless it's faked). Fair enough, though faking shit is more reasonable with daytalk. BUT, it looks like it was just 30 minutes after the relevant post, so that's not much time for scum planning. BUTBUT, it was D1, when literally everyone was playing the game, so there's also that.

168. re: Wicked 2279 -- I am no real feeling about kunkstar after reading some 93 pages of this game. He lurks and lurks and lurks. Reading over him in iso a little (but I have EXTREME fatigue at this point, so these are glances), his early push on Furco is scummy, but his town/scum list is OK, if brief. He's probably not my first choice for a lynch, but he's not a strong town read.

169. God. What the hell is DGB doing? She's a very competent player...

170. She made me laugh in 2298, though.

171. Oh, man, I love this woman. <3 (2303)

172. Very good wagon analysis by Furco in 2307. Very good. I'd been struggling with whether to vote MoI or EG or kunkstar (albeit leaning one of the first two), but that seals it for me. The 7 initial players on the MoI wagon are all very town. That looks like a wagon on scum to me.

I noticed two players unvoting MoI around the same time before. I'd bet one of them is scum, even though this same logic got us into trouble in Holy Orders. Can't find it looking back now, though.

173. Trig (2315) -- it's relevant because of the PEOPLE on MoI's wagon.

174. Seacore's point in 2318 is a good point. Even manho knew not to investigate N1. <_<

175. Furco 2325, if you become bloody by Murdering, you lose your res kit. Stalking MoI is suboptimal because you waste your rez. A bloody player, or at least a rez-less player, should do those things.

176. LOL @ DGB 2365.

177. Seacore's graverob plan makes WAY more sense IMO, except that the scumwards will mess things up.

178. Why isn't Wicked robbing twice...?

179. My only problem with the Dispatch plan as it existed when I replaced in is the Ward angle. Why has no one mentioned it?

180. I now dislike DGB's "Hello" post in context...the shift to MoI doesn't really make sense...it looks like she's possibly trying to tie herself to me, probably because she knows I love her and will hesitate more than is rational to lynch her.

181. Fate is almost certainly a Murderer. There's no reason for cult to budget themselves like that otherwise, because they'll just waste their extra rez kits when they Ritual, anyway.

182. -_- @ Katsu

183. @ Wicked 2452 -- Having Benmage graverob is excellent, because he is already damaged goods due to taking Suicidal, etc.

184. Wicked, you know that I have no control over whether I'm a murderer. I'm at the mercy of the Hungarian fellow and manho.

Granted, they didn't mess things over for me, so that is that.

185. Also @ Wicked -- Actually, the chances of two players warding the same player are extremely low. Very low. If ALL PLAYERS were required to Ward, the chance of it happening is 0.2%. When you factor in that players could also Stalk/Search, the chance is much lower. BS and Xvart warding MoI is not null, though it COULD be a coincidence.

186. I have no idea why you think Niki is town...unless you just think ElG is scum...

187. @ AV -- I think BM is concerned that the Murderer will Stalk him today, thinking that BM might be going Murderer, too.

Really, this would be a godsent.

No one should Ward BM tonight.

We need to get rid of him so he doesn't screw up lylo, anyway.

GOD MOTHERFUCKER THAT TOOK FOREVER.

YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE FOR BEING BEHIND AGAIN.

OK SCUMLIST AND TOPICAL STUFF COMING UP.

BUT THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS IN THERE SO PLEASE AT LEAST CTRL+F YOUR NAME TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING OUTSTANDING. Also, note that I did this as I went along and my views on some players have changed considerably from early on.

[Iecerint]

SUPER TOWN
Benmage
Furcolow
Wickedestjr

TOWN
Fate (I mean, this is what I think he'll *flip*)
Andrius (I had my doubts early on, though)
hitorogoshi (I had my doubts REALLY early on, though, for what looked like a scumslip that no one noticed; I'd like him to respond to it)
Plum
Seacore (I had my doubts early on, though)
SpyreX (I had my doubts early on, though)
TNM
Trilobite
VPBaltar

TOWN?
AurorusVox (He was my strongest town read until his bizarre behavior D2 wrt BM)
FurpantsTom (Push on BM early D2 is very scummy, but no other complaints)
VDV (Town UNLESS Wraith is scum)

***Wraith (REALLY hate to admit it, but rewq's iso 1 is indeed a fairly solid towntell) <---- take note, BM***

CULT?
RC (This is partly wishful thinking)
Feysal (Him XOR NP: 100%)
NP (Him XOR Feysal: 100%)
kunkstar
Nicodemus (I agree that he's the most likely scum on ElG's wagon)
Triglav (I'm not sure where to put him...but probably here...)

CULT
LostButterfly (No extra murder => she was cult)
BabySpice (Push on Furco)
MagnaofIllusion (Push on Furco)
xvart (late Ward claim, some odd stances)

[Iecerint]

Regarding the graverobbing plan --

I like the plan, but it seems like scum can PROBABLY still mess us up with Wards without breaking a sweat. Assuming LBscum RCtown, that leaves 6 scum. 1/3 to ritual leaves 4 to Ward 4 graves. No flips result. And given that the ENTIRE TOWN CHRIST EXCEPT like me and one other player heard Noise, they appear to have made lots of fetishes in preparation, so that won't be a limiting factor.

I don't know how to deal with this, though...

I encourage people to read the bits of my novel that apply to them at the very least. I took ages writing it so ye know. Most of the issues I address were brought up by someone a few posts later, so many of the concerns are not a huge deal, but nevertheless....

[Iecerint]

I'd also request a deadline extension, but it looks like MoI is already voting himself sooooo. <_<

One thing FT already told Furco that I want to repeat is that

Murdering or otherwise becoming bloody destroys rez kits.

I don't think Furco ever acknowledged when FT said as much.

[Iecerint]

Mod: As currently written, players with 9 insanities may murder 2 players in one night. Is this intentional, or is the intent just to give insane Murders twice the flexibility with regard to kill targets?

[Iecerint]

Mod: If scum (or whoever) Wards a corpse n times, does that block *all* Rob Grave attempts, or only n attempts?

I think the Ward on BM is a bad idea. He wants it because he thinks the Murderer may kill him because he's in a position to challenge him for the Murder win based on the insanities he may accumulate.

[Iecerint]

Have you heard unexplained Noise? You may be beyond Wards assistance in that regard.

If Murderers can commit two simultaneous kills, they can become Murderers and win the game in the same night.

(MOD: Well, it depends on the pragmatics of "2 murders BEFORE this one"...)

. At any rate, we can keep your long-term insanity growth under control, I think, so long as Cult doesn't help you along (in which case, hell, they can deal with you) and we watch the Robbed Graves.

I've also just noticed something extremely disturbing. Ima ask Percy about it.

[Iecerint]

Ugly tags.

[Iecerint]

@ AV -- I think you may have typo'd at some point during D2 and thrown a "not" in there.

Anyway, my position is that it is nigh-totally bogus to think that BM is cult, and anyone who makes a claim that absurd cannot be taken seriously. You have to believe a big list of things that don't make sense to think BM is cult (like, they're POSSIBLE, but they posit a big conspiracy). In a game with as many sketchy players as I perceive there to be, pushing for BM of all people for the lynch looks scummy.

That said, I think your D1 play was really good. Or, at least, I could consistently have some notion about a post and then you would show up and say it.

Also, you're forgetting that letting any cult graverob will get them Corpse Dust. Which, as Seacore indicated, isn't the end of the world, but is pretty suboptimal.

[Iecerint]

@ VP -- I understand that. That statement was address at AV for this:

NEVERMIND. I see what you mean. I retract my statement.

One contingency I might suggest is that the counterwagons are significantly less likely to be town if MoI flips scum. Maybe we should make two lists based on MoI's

but we get no flip. We could still possibly do contingency on his sanity, I guess, though cult could easily have no Insanities at this point, unless they used MegaAttack and NP and Fey are just telling the truth (low probability).

[Iecerint]

k. then it just gives flexibility to prevent Warding from messing them up if they're still managing and the game has gone on forever. Got it. I based it on a myopic reading of the rules.

There's still that one issue, but I suppose that'll have to wait.

[Iecerint]

Also, I just reread my notes, and I'd forgotten that Benmage took Suicidal D1. Coupled with the fact that he won't be able to do his 2nd and 3rd kills in one night ala Vi's clarification, he's a very contained threat and everyone who says mean things about him is again silly or scummy.

[Iecerint]

Matching up NP and Feysal is a good idea. One is scum and one is town, and they're both bloody already, so it's minimal cost.

Wicked/Andy seems a little arbitrary. I'm not sure why they're being selected. Maybe you can explain why? Are you just trying to ensure at least 1 town? Then why Andy?

Only concern is that Wards might let scum get Corpse Dust. Are people told if their Rob Grave action was not successful? If so, we can find evidence of scum screwing with things after the fact.

@ Trilobite -- I didn't have a town read on you until D2. You didn't stand out too much to me one way or the other D1 IIRC; you may've made a few bad calls, but I can't remember anything specific.

A major point in your favor is that you aren't scum with MoI.

[Iecerint]

nopointinactingup is an excellent example of this. He would not need to grave rob to prove himself not a murderer, because we already know he cannot be. nopoint claimed to have resuscitated Wickedestjr before he said he had been attacked. There is no way nopoint could have known Wickedestjr had been attacked if he were LB's murderer. The same unfortunately does not apply to me.

I don't understand this. You aren't told that you resuscitated successfully?

@ SC -- I missed that warding bodies gives an extra insanity. I suppose that's a point in that direction. My list is only a non-cult/cult list.

Part of the reason I was really concerned about the graves was that the rules as prior written had it so that Robbing a Warded grave would turn the body to dust without a flip. This makes it a really OP cult action. I asked Percy and Vi via PM to avoid alerting cult. Percy has told me that that wasn't the intent, and has adjusted the wording of the rules accordingly. This is what I mentioned I'd noticed earlier.

A major disadvantage of B is that Feysal & NPAU won't be able to launder, which as has just been raised, is pretty important.

Not really...the fact that they're already bloody in fact makes it BETTER for them to Rob Grave. Laundering per-se doesn't do anything for us, and whoever Robs Graves is going to be bloody either way. AND, the blood that Feysal and NPAU have is already explained-away by resuscitation, so finding it via Investigation would be stupid (in fact, it would be an ElG-tier bad action). So I dunno why you're complaining about this. BM agreeing with you makes just slightly more sense, as that is BM.

Communing them to infer Insanity status is a decent argument against Plan B, but it's not really fullproof because most of the cult is probably still insanity-free. But if we do go with A, that's a good N2 action.

One disadvantage of A that people haven't noted is that it gives Town players a bunch of insanities. This is a bad thing, because the insanities that build up eventually start affecting voting possibilities and can mess with the lynches; this happened a little in SA2.

@ SC, could you explain why Plan A does much to the cult? The idea is just that it forces them to take insanities? But it also makes the towniest players take insanities...?

Plan A is fine if I'm missing how it really does anything to Cult. Otherwise, I want to keep at least the NP/Feysal dichotomy part of Plan B in order to maximize the chance that it's an ideal Town/Scum pairing for those robberies.

I'm not voting because Plan B has that particular element that I like, even if it has other flaws (like, NP/Feysal shouldn't be on Fate, who is unlikely to have items).

[Iecerint]

My mistake @ the first. That changes matters. It's no longer quite as wonderful to have those two go together.

I support Plan A unless MoI flips with an Insanity. If he flips with an Insanity, the counter-wagons are no longer optimal second-robbers. NP/Feysal split beats them at that point AFAICT, because I think there's a greater chance of 1 scum in NP/Feysal than in counter-wagons to scum/Town.

[Iecerint]

I left out Wraith, since he said he was going to resuscitate, which means he cannot be resuscitated. The cult cannot kill him anyway.

???

[Iecerint]

Oh, I see. I expected to see it in "Target," but it's in Side Effects. Can't rez rezzers.

[Iecerint]

I'm waiting for a VC so I don't mess up, but I'm ready to pile on whenever.

[Iecerint]

UNLESS we want to switch in BS for ElG or w/e.

[Iecerint]

kk

Vote: MoI

[Iecerint]

OMG SO CUTE.

[Iecerint]

idk is basically stuff we already have in 2 forms.

BUT.

man that is a cute plushie.

[Iecerint]

CD3

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? Yes
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? No
List all of the insanities you currently have: N/A
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No.

However, I did target Furpants_Tom with resuscitate last night.

Were you murdered? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No

[Iecerint]

The wording in my PM specifically indicates that I was not able to prevent FT from passing on. In other words, the fact that he did not survive is implicit in the wording of the PM itself. I doubt it was a mod error, though that would be lovely.

I am assuming Greater Ritual. Murder target is also a possibility, but much less likely.

EDIT: Trilobite is NOT found to be a liar IIRC...are you misinterpreting that action claim?

What does N1 graverobbers have to do with anything? Do you mean N2 graverobbers?

[Iecerint]

Yes, I failed to protect. No, I am not bloody. I also didn't get an Insanity.

[Iecerint]

Notes: If more killing actions target the player than there are players Resuscitating them, then the kill is not prevented, though you still become Bloody when the killing action resolves.

Though THAT part does appear to be a mod error.

Why is it implied that someone rezzed me?

[Iecerint]

Yes, it lists that there was failure...

I guess it says something else if you benignly target someone who wasn't targeted?

EDIT: Oh. Yeah. That would make sense.

[Iecerint]

OK, I was notified of the failure, so that can't explain it.

[Iecerint]

@ VP, that doesn't explain why *I* would be informed, though. Replacing in names:

FT's target hears Noise. Any Resuscitate action targeting FT tonight will fail, and the player who targeted FT [Iec]

will not be notified of the failure.

But I *was* notified. Unless this just means that I won't be notified given that FT doesn't die.

[Iecerint]

I think the intent might be that I'm not told in the event that FT rezzes and isn't targeted by anything. This is a sensible rule because it prevents players from having a bunch of players rez in a circle and then finding the player who cheated.

But it makes it sound like I shouldn't be told in either case. Probably just an oversight, but idk.

[Iecerint]

The rules post should probably be edited, then...there's a line about not being notified about failure that doesn't appear to apply.

[Iecerint]

It has to be that he Stalked someone N0 intending to go Murderer. Not very mysterious.

[Iecerint]

Andy, I'm pretty sure Commune is based on your insanity BEFORE the one that it gives you. So he'd have to have only 1 insanity. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, Iecscum cleverly claimed to have protected the dead man with discrepancies between his claim and the ruleset as-written that Percy subsequently had to clear up. And didn't even explain away any insanities in doing so! I literally cannot count all the scum motivations.

[Iecerint]

I am literally blown away by xvart's stalk target.

[Iecerint]

I could see xvart as scum, especially if ElG is town. Scum just saw us give ElG a free pass, albeit that time for something that didn't explain away an insanity. This time, xvart randomly claimed stalk on Furco, though he then appeared repentant. Scum may have decided that they could get away with it due to our treatment of ElG.

And I already had a scummy vibe from xvart.

[Iecerint]

Well, Benmage, too, maybe, but I meant how ElG used Investigate even though it was a useless decision.

[Iecerint]

Furc, I'm not sure why you're taking this attitude toward VP. Did he do something objectionable that I missed? EDIT: I understand that you're not voting him.

[Iecerint]

Ye know, you'd think MoI would've claimed Murderer last night. Whatever.

[Iecerint]

I think Furco's anger at VP is misdirected anger s/p people's failure to follow the plan.

[Iecerint]

ElG took Suicidal, too...?

Anyone entertaining killing off Furco gets pro-scum marks from me. His behavior this game has been as pro-town as Furco gets, and we have way too many players to kill before that (ElG, xvart in the short term; followed by players who are actually scummy).

[Iecerint]

Furco had corrected me by saying they were responding to our treatment of you rather than that of ElG (in the event that xvart is scum).

[Iecerint]

He has that information in his CD3. He has claimed 0 insanities, and I THINK Triglav just confirmed that.

[Iecerint]

Didn't someone else claim to have Communed Feysal, though? Or did I just make that up?

[Iecerint]

It's not impossible (like, NPcult could use rez kits both nights), but it's relatively unlikely.

[Iecerint]

If no one claims rez on SX, cult 100% rezzed SX. If cult rezzed SX, SX is 90% cult.

Waiting to see if any stragglers want to claim SXrez is the obvious move.

I share people's indignation at ElG's behavior. And xvart's.

[Iecerint]

NB: This exact same scenario came up in SA2 IIRC -- scumPlum rezzed someone who ended up being cult. This eventually got her, but it took awhile.

Surprised she hasn't brought this up re: SX's situation AFAICT.

[Iecerint]

Also -- I agree with VDV's meta on SX, provided that he has accurately characterized SX's play this game. I remember someone (tajo?) catching him on that metatell in EK's UPick.

[Iecerint]

^ Good point. Forgot about FT's likely rez use.

[Iecerint]

A few players haven't even claimed their stuff yet.

[Iecerint]

That was @ possible premature hammers and Furco's "i hate long days" rhetoric.

[Iecerint]

I agree with it for now.

However, there's still some people who may claim SX rez, so that may change things idk.

[Iecerint]

Neat! I'm the only one safe tonight.

Thanks. <3

[Iecerint]

Yeah. The only reason not to lynch ElG is that there are (amazingly) other players who qualify for the lynch analogously (xvart).

[Iecerint]

I actually think that xvart's case is scummier, if anything. ElG's first goof didn't even explain away an insanity. xvart's "goof" did, and it's more likely to get a pass in spite of being really anti-town.

[Iecerint]

I am more suspicious of hito and Seacore after reading the last few pages. Villifying Furco is senseless and cannot serve any purpose other than to set up a despair-based mislynch down the line.

[Iecerint]

OK, well, I suppose you say that you think xvart should carry out his kill if ElG has more insanities, so you're not really setting up a mislynch so much as having xvart kill him outright.

But if you can't tell what I mean by your villifying Furco...?

[Iecerint]

Oh. Well. I do see all those posts on 124 now.

Were you just pretending before, or did I confuse you with someone else?

EDIT: The evidence that Furco will be a liability from D6 onwards is NOT something we should worry about addressing so long as there are a) players that are ALREADY a liability like ElG and xvart and b) considerably less likely to be town.

Also, to counter some of the rhetoric about how Furco lost SA2 for the town -- what really lost SA2 at the end of the day is that town lynched Furco.

Really, Furco has been very well-behaved all game. I see no reason to policy kill him in any fashion. And I think he IS capable of thinking against his preconceptions as town, at least privately, if that's what worries you. He did it when we were Neighbors and he thought I was scum in Holy Orders, for example. He just has a certain front he wants to present publicly, and that interferes with the kind of rhetoric he lets himself use sometimes.

[Iecerint]

I agree that it's a chicken/egg problem there. However, I think some players have been, ye know, FOCUSING inordinately on the chicken, ye know? That's all I meant.

I agree with the rest, I guess, except that GraveRob should be an 11th hour thing so we don't create lame OMG THE SUSPICIONS CHANGED DURING THE DAY drama, unless you think we're already at said 11th hour.

[Iecerint]

Town probably shouldn't condone the murder of confirmed townies*, either.

[Iecerint]

It's certainly relevant that Andy would make that kind of statement. He's arguing technicalities that do nothing to undermine the assertion the player made.

[Iecerint]

No, Andy's point is that he believes Furc is attempting the murderer win condition and thus needs to be killed by town.

If that is Andy's point, then Andy is a total dummy rather than being scummy.

Andy, is this your point? If so, why do you think that's the case?

This is an important distinction to my belief that Furc is attempting the investigator win condition but is jeopardising it by being Furc, and thus needs to be killed by town.

The second argument can be disagreed with by saying "Town should never kill town, no matter what", however, the first argument still stands after this.

It can also be disagreed with by saying "Given that we think killing VI-type players is justified, Furco is NOT the preeminent VI we should think about killing." For example: ElG, xvart, BM. The disproportionate focus on discrediting Furco, especially when he's been well-behaved relative to both his meta and to other players, makes me very uncomfortable.

[Iecerint]

The only reason I want xvart to go through is because I think he's lying to us.

I see...I guess I read that out of context before...

[Iecerint]

If it requires elaborate plans dont do them NOW on "a distraction". Do them on scum.

QFT

[Iecerint]

I like Furco.

Haterz gonna hate.

[Iecerint]

Nah, I was Artemis.

I love you, too. I think you're scummy, though.

Could you address that clarification I addressed to you?

[Iecerint]

CD4

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? No
Did you Ward? If so, who? Nope
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? Nope
List all of the insanities you currently have: N/A
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Were you murdered? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No
Are you bloody? No
Twitch? Nah

Furco had more insanities than you...? Then why do you say it was a waste?

[Iecerint]

Oh. Nevermind. He just had the 1.

So he either Communed (would that show up when you Commune someone Commune'd) or Stalked last night, if I were to guess. I doubt he lied.

[Iecerint]

It's silly to say you'll vote for someone when we still have information coming in. I'd be OK with lynching SX or Andy at this point.

Unless Wraith is scum, Furco rezzed tonight. That means he got a fetish, or he lied a previous night. Getting a fetish is probably most likely, since cult may have done something similar to Fate.

[Iecerint]

^ FPT could have rezzed SX.

[Iecerint]

OK, I had an exam today, so I'm way behind in all my games. From reading this page, it looks like nothing happened. However, I am going to bed now.

Could someone summarize what's happened, if anything? If it's still Andy/SX leaning SX with no info from the claims, that constitutes nothing AFAICT.

Also, could someone show me EXACTLY what they want me to vote (like, without any bolding). Someone did it wrong right before I went into my cave to study and I remember not being able to figure it out back then.

[Iecerint]

Vote Benmage.
Unvote.
Vote Hito.
Unvote.
Vote Benmage.
Unvote.
Vote Hito.
Unvote

Why just those two players?

[Iecerint]

There's always aversion, or whatever the no-voting one is, if we really want to tax poor Percy. :X

[Iecerint]

So I'm stalking my favorite player on that list?

[Iecerint]

The basis of the claim was that scumFeysal may have lied about his action, since beating the cult kill becomes overdetermined if his intervention is considered. I don't think it has anything to do with Wicked's alignment...we pretty much knew he was town from D2 s/p no other revive claims the same night.

[Iecerint]

I think you need to be looking at play, and as far as I'm concerned, Feysal looks much more protown than Nacho or NPAU ever did.

This is scummy. The only way that NP's slot can be scum is if he's scum with the player who claimed Commune on him. This is highly unlikely.

[Iecerint]

Oh. Good point.

My mistake.

I will return to my cave.

[Iecerint]

It should be clear that, contrary to that chart, no one should Rez me tonight.

[Iecerint]

CD5

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? Yes!
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? I received 1 insanity from Stalking.
List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Were you murdered? Nope
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? Nope
Are you bloody? Nope
Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful? I stalked Baby Spice and was unsuccessful (also)
Twitch? *twitch*

Vote: Iecerint
Unvote, Vote: Seacore
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: Xvart
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: Xvart
Unvote

[Iecerint]

I almost stalked someone else, but I switched to BS at the last minute.

[Iecerint]

Wait, so both BS *and* Nicky were warded?

Neat.

[Iecerint]

OK, so now we just need to kill Andy and BS and Nicky?

Yay!

[Iecerint]

Andy just used Commune on a player known to have more insanities than him (Benmage). This is dumb and wrong and lynchable at best; at worst, it also explains away an extra insanity.

Did he do that for some reason I forgot about?

[Iecerint]

@ Feysal's -- One consideration is that we know that:

A) At least 1 cult was already dead (SX)
B) Ritual occurred

So that sets an upper bound on how many free cultists had the opportunity to Ward players.

@ BS's -- I was going to stalk another player at first, but I switched to you because I thought I was less likely to double-up with a stalk on you than on the other player. <_<

@ Benmage -- Ah. Hmm. Well. Hmm. Is there a reason that hasn't already made him too dumb to live, or what?

[Iecerint]

I was going to ask why you wanted TNM to do that, but. That is actually a pretty neat gambit. GJ.

[Iecerint]

Not to mention that Benmage is a bogus person to shift attention to.

[Iecerint]

There aren't enough scum for scum to have warded everyone. It's not like scum could have warded everyone on the stalk list even if they'd wanted to.

[Iecerint]

Who all was stalked, anyway? BS/Nicky/XXX? I think someone hadn't claimed yet awhile ago, but I can't remember if they fixed it.

[Iecerint]

K, sounds about right. Was trying to determine whether there was any substance to BS's "well everyone who was stalked was warded!!!" comment, but it is instead just a silly comment.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, but I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something.

Basically, it's hard for me to imagine that scum would make such an awful argument, but it appears to have done so.

This increases the chance that both BS and Nicky are scum IMO.

[Iecerint]

Yet it appears that they managed to ward everyone who was stalked.

This is the part I was talking about. Misleading as n=2.

[Iecerint]

I only have 1 insanity, unless I'm going crazy.

EDIT: HAHAHAHA GET IT?

[Iecerint]

You are quite the mathematician. kk.

[Iecerint]

CD6

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? Yes
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? Taboo: Resuscitate from Stalk
List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy, Taboo:R
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No
Are you bloody? If so, why? No
Did you Stalk? If so, who, and was it successful? Yes, I successfully stalked AV. (I changed it from Andy again, too, but at least they were both already targeted this time.)
Twitch? *twitch*
Vote: Iecerint
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: xvart
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: xvart
Unvote

[Iecerint]

I read through a bunch of isos and thought his interactions with SX looked like fake distancing (could be influenced by my reading VV describing it as a "super-obvious" instance of such or whatever), and he disproportionately ignored rhetoric against Baby Spice.

[Iecerint]

@ VP -- I actually used ctrl+f "bs" to search for it, so it seems like I missed some stuff. I feel dumb. I did BS and SX isos first, so I got lazy.

@ AV -- No, I don't particularly give you points for wanting to lynch nigh-proven scum. I shouldn't have missed the early stuff, though. There's still the SX thing, but I'd probably be back at Andy if I hadn't screwed that other thing up.

Vote: Iecerint
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: xvart
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: xvart
Unvote

Fix for the bold.

[Iecerint]

I'd like to know why AV stalked Benmage, and why TNM apparently didn't.

[Iecerint]

Well, I'm glad I stalked you instead of Andy, since 2/2 is better than 3/1.

But if I hadn't made a lazy assumption with your iso, we'd be in 3/1 world.

I can kill him w/e I dun wanna get blocked twice in a row anyway.

[Iecerint]

I hope we can still be friends AV because you gave me really warm feelings when I read 110 pages of this game a long time ago (only D1 but).

[Iecerint]

I just took Taboo: Resuscitate (cuz I figured I was about to get bloody and lose it anyway), but what the hell.

[Iecerint]

The suicide idea is probably a good one. We should also do it today if we're going to do it. The longer we wait, the more of us will have insanities that make getting up there challenging.

Starting at the top of the list on Page 1 and working down would probably be most efficient.

It probably makes more sense for Seacore to do the kill. Seacore isn't in a position to confirm himself very easily after this because he has so many insanities. I can restalk with little penalty.

(Also, why is Seacore bloody?)

[Iecerint]

One potential problem: if there are any lingering living players (other than Benmage!!!!!!!!!) who have claimed Suicidal.

[Iecerint]

Hmm.

If someone has the "can't vote X" ability, will it show up numerically or otherwise in the VC?

@ xvart -- Had you already claimed that?

[Iecerint]

Oh. And Nicky rez'd him. I think I missed a whole page or something before.

Not sure why narrowing it down to 1/3 scum and then protecting one of them makes any sense. O.o

kk @ SC.

[Iecerint]

If thread-dodging covaries with cult status, that would seem to be all the more reason to test suicidal.

I should be part of the voting bloc if we do that because I check the thread every day.

[Iecerint]

It definitely makes sense for AV to use his kit.

Since it's now clear to me that SC was killed last night, I agree that me killing is fine.

[Iecerint]

Whether I'm killing or not has changed about 8 times since it was first discussed, so let's be sure to nail that kind of thing down before we end the day.

[Iecerint]

I really haven't given this game (or any of my games) much serious thought in a few days, but this is what my heart says when I look at the list on page 1:

Andrius
Feysal
kunkstar7
totallynotmafia
VasudeVa

Though I guess Nicky could still be scum. Or, I mean -- to the extent that Seacore/Nicky could be scum together, there's no reason they couldn't just do the same thing on an investigator. Still enough to benefit of the doubt him away from today, though.

[Iecerint]

I don't really get a scum vibe from her, no. I did get one from her in Greek Mythology (correctly), too; a significant enough one that I argued with ooba about it.

I don't get a real TOWN vibe from her either, though. And she's usually a paragon of town when she is town. So there is that.

This is equivocal but idk is basically it.

[Iecerint]

I am receptive to Plumscum arguments that go beyond "I feel it in my gut" tho.

[Iecerint]

And idk why I used that semicolon there. It really bother me.

[Iecerint]

ACTUALLY

VDV did remind me that Wraith was town the one time. So there is that.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, but what I noticed in Greek Mythology re: her (come to think of it) was that your other scumfriend did really bad fake distancing with her D1. Ooba even argued that her other play made her town, though I was pretty convinced by the fake distancing.

I will not jesus on the cross if people decide to lynch her.

[Iecerint]

Hafta say. Greek Mythology was pretty great.

[Iecerint]

Everyone won!

Kinda...

[Iecerint]

Yes, well, finding all the scum way ahead of time is a win in itself. I also had the coolest role ever.

[Iecerint]

I was no mere mason.

I was a bulletproof mason cop who could skip nights and days.

Which made it easier to find all the scum.

But then I died and provenscumAndy got the rest of the town to do something silly so he won. It was maddening to watch from deathroom.

So ends a largely useless

[Iecerint]

I can just about buy Andy's not knowing that cult can't fetish themselves. Came in a series of quick posts, and I frankly didn't know that, either.

[Iecerint]

Did he say that SC and me are scum together or something? Cuz idk what everyone talking about.

Actually, has anything happened at all in this game in the past 5 pages or so, cuz it seems like we're just waiting for the day to end.

I mean ye know.

/drunkpost

[Iecerint]

Didn't Nacho just post? I guess that didn't count? Then what is he putting off?

I remember VPB wanting him to say something but that is all.

[Iecerint]

Like real-time tomorrow or D7?

Or do you mean that I am drunk? Cuz if that is the case then you are probably mistaken, or, at any rate, I am willing to bet you could make my life easier if you wanted to.

[Iecerint]

False dilemma. I think Seacore's town.

[Iecerint]

Also, I still do not follow whatever Nacho was muttering about last night. So I told ye so, etc.

[Iecerint]

It would be nice to get an idea of the algorithm you're using to make the judgments as you go along.

[Iecerint]

Even if it's just "follow man hart."

These are also /drunkpost btw.

[Iecerint]

my***

[Iecerint]

Drinking

to

get drunk is the only rational reason to drink that I can think of.

Nacho continues to disappoint me.

[Iecerint]

Well, what is your alternate reason?

Or you think we shouldn't be impatient with Nacho?

[Iecerint]

I guess drinking 1 drink per day with food for cardiovascular health is another rational reason.

[Iecerint]

It's my understanding that you're killing and I'm restalking. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

[Iecerint]

It would seem that ending the day while Nacho is still stalling may be suboptimal, but w/e.

[Iecerint]

I stalked Kunkster and it failed.

NO ONE BEAT ME.

Now I will post properly.

*twitch* *twitchy* *twitches*

[Iecerint]

CD7

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? My PM doesn't say anything about whether I heard noise. So...I might need another one?
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? I said "Soloist: Forensics Kit if allowed; otherwise, Obsession: Forensics Kit" I'm not sure whether Soloist and Taboo are both allowed, so I wanted to get a submission on time. This was s/p stalk failure.
List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy, Taboo:R, Soloist:FK (presumably; otherwise, O:FK as last)
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No
Are you bloody? If so, why? No
Did you Stalk? If so, who, and was it successful? I failed to stalk kunkstar.
Twitch? *twitch* (already done

Vote: Iecerint
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: xvart
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: xvart
Unvote

I dunno how the voting thing works, so someone will have to teach me if I messed it up.

Is anyone openly Suicidal? They should say it before we start testing.

[Iecerint]

I am happy that I have always thought that Andy was scum.

I also did not think that Plum was scum.

Go me.

<3

[Iecerint]

Duh gosh.

[Iecerint]

You are repeating with SC literally just said. That is why it is duh.

Don't be dumb I am town.

I will be possessed by the ghost of Furcolow for the remainder of this game btw.

[Iecerint]

LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOL

Comedian of the year award goes to: Trilobite

OK so that was out of character I will do better from now on.

I am not scum how can you say that anyone can see I am town.

[Iecerint]

you twitched innit; it's fine.

btw everyone anyone who thinks i am scum is dumb i am town.

[Iecerint]

well I have one but I have Taboo:RK so it is like I don't.

also, it disappeared if soloist was taken successfully.

[Iecerint]

2 scum had to kill yesterday, so they had at most 3 actions to play with.

[Iecerint]

Why can't they just Greater Ritual every night, then? That seems dumb.

I guess 1/3 of them'd need to launder. w/e.

[Iecerint]

I will return to my cave where I have been ever since I rez'd FT and it didn't work.

[Iecerint]

Nope, more like I'm annoyed that people started calling me scum for matching up stalks with people the past two days.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: also I am obviously town. i do not need to prove it to you.

[Iecerint]

Nicky claimed being interfered with in some fashion awhile ago (grave robbing? i can't remember). He avoided the chopping block when he saved Seacore from the NK night before last.

IIRC.

So Nicky is town unless scum deliberately did this to get him off the chopping block.

[Iecerint]

VP wants to lynch Andy. To all sane people, Andyscum is so obvious that it is not worth going on and on about.

Other discussions, like what's up with Nicky or kunk, are greyer, so discussion there is more helpful.

I think that is the point.

[Iecerint]

Why is TNM town?

Percy says I misunderstood how Solist (and Obsession) works; you don't Solist @ some item you're holding. I am messaging with him because he is being sweet and letting me basically pick my insanity (between those two) while playing the game. Maybe he feels bad about that time with FT idk.

[Iecerint]

rly?

Well that makes sense then.

[Iecerint]

OK guys, so now I officially have Solist from last night, and I have forsaken the Resus Kit I was holding while keeping the Forensics Kit I also had.

So that is that.

[Iecerint]

They buddy in every game. It is because they are bros 4 lyfe. AFAICT. VDV can correct me.

They are scum together sometimes but it is just the background probability.

[Iecerint]

He didn't mention it in the e-mail he sent me. I'll send one back to him to see.

[Iecerint]

Can I be on the team of voters please. I am very good at it.

[Iecerint]

We can make a proven town player be the L-1er. And someone competent. That way, both those concerns are dealt with.

It's not a total loss to wait to test it since we'll definitely lynch correctly today, though.

[Iecerint]

Though given that Andrius could openly try to mess with any plans to test suicidal, we should probably lynch him today and test tomorrow.

Thoughts?

I missed this post. This is actually an extremely good point. Andy is mischievous.

Let's kill Andy and do it tomorrow 110%.

[Iecerint]

Why do you have town reads on Feysal and Trig?

[Iecerint]

What, do you know, andy?

[Iecerint]

No, I agree with your list apart from those two spaces, pretty much. I forgot that Nacho's slot was the other one in Feysal's 1/1. That part is fine.

I saw no reason to ask you about my own read because a) I know you're town, so it's not like you're making it up and b) I can understand someone thinking I'm scum, since my play has been a comedy of errors with a gillion failed stalks, one failed revive, etc.

[Iecerint]

Oh,

I did not hear noise

. Percy got back to me about this and I forgot.

[Iecerint]

You also need to confirm that players who have already murdered don't do so again. Murderers are required to take Psychopathy upon their second Murder.

Can I Stalk someone on the Stalk list (again)? I can make myself useful either way.

[Iecerint]

Seacore, please clarify whether I'm allowed to Stalk on that list (as well as be stalked).

[Iecerint]

Um. Can you clarify why it's problematic for me to stalk someone on the stalk list? O.o

I can do other stuff either way, though.

[Iecerint]

Also, this is the game where Furcolow's ghost is possessing me, right?

I am not scum obviously.

[Iecerint]

I have Solist, so I can't pick up a resuscitation kit. I will have to make do.

[Iecerint]

I wish you'd told me earlier. I could've done Solist;RKit, since I'd been holding one all game. <_<

Oh well w/e I hate my life.

[Iecerint]

At least you got my role right this time.

Also -- GET THEE BEHIND ME, SCUMZ. >:W

[Iecerint]

<3

[Iecerint]

Oh, neato. Recall that Iecerint=manho. If I'm scum, my slot voted after scum and was followed by scum twice (on Benmage D1 as manho, and on MoI D2 as me). Three cheers for VCs, etc.

The first VC really boils down to the same Feysal/Nacho dichotomy we already had AFAICT, though, on the scum-finding front, when you take away the fact that Nacho is the one interpreting. Correct me if I am mistaken.

[Iecerint]

kk

Vote: Andy

[Iecerint]

YAY

CD8

Username: Iecerint
Did you Hear Noise? Yes.
Did you Ward? If so, who? No.
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? Yes, Hallucination due to stalking Benmage.
List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy, Taboo: Resuscitate, Solist, Hallucination (4)
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No.
Were you murdered? No.
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No.
Are you bloody? No.
Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful? Yes, I stalked Benmage. It was successful. I mean mixed blessings but ye know.
Twitch? *twitch*
Vote: Iecerint
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: Xvart
Unvote, Vote: Benmage
Unvote, Vote: Xvart
Unvote

[Iecerint]

Xvart's on the stalkee list...?

Isn't he confirmed town...?

[Iecerint]

I agree. However, we need to nominate someone to join the testing team:

Seacore
Iecrint
Feysal
Benmage
VP Baltar
TNM

But he is dead so.

Also wtf xvart is NOT on the stalk list. I don't know what the hell you were doing...

This was the stalk list:

Trilobite
Iecerint
VasudeVa
Nachomamma8
kunkstar7
Benmage

The only edit was that Benmage pulled Jesus-on-the-cross to let me stalk him AFAICR.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I realized that xvart was suicidal. So...nvm @ Nacho. Bizarre that he'd be warded, though.

Very well. The initial voter is less important than the later ones, anyway. If anything, sketchy players being early in the stack keeps them from doing nefarious things later on.

I'll reproduce the lists:

WE TEST THESE PLAYERS IN THIS ORDER

1. Nacho
2. kunkstar
3. VasudeVa
4. Iecerint
5. Trilobite
6. Triglav
7. vp Baltar
8. Feysal
9. Nicodemus
10. TNM

Benmage and xvart are exempt cuz they've claimed it.

THESE PLAYERS VOTE FOR EM IN THIS ORDER

Trilobite
Iecerint
Feysal
Benmage
VP Baltar
TNM

12 players means 7 to lynch means 6 are needed to test.

[Iecerint]

I suppose it could be because it's a sure thing.

[Iecerint]

^ Wanna go a step further and propose, ye know, who we should lynch?

[Iecerint]

Trilo thinks Benmage is scum? Where?

[Iecerint]

I've though Benmage was town since my readthrough. I don't think he is clever+insane enough to pull all of this as scum.

I almost think it requires a twisted mind and/or scum alignment to feel forced to call Benmage scum. Hell, that's probably true even if Benmage IS scum.

[Iecerint]

Benmage, why am I confirmed to you? Because I'm such a nice guy?

[Iecerint]

Has everyone claimed now? Are we in a position to start testing?

[Iecerint]

I think Feysal is probably scum, but I'm more sure about kunk.

Regarding letting Benmage confirm people successfully via murder + being rezzed -- there's also the factor (I think?) where doubling up on successful Murders could let people sneak by with extra Murders without us having a record of them. We could maybe rule this out to an extent if we could confirm where players' insanities come from.

Another issue is that he can't both rez someone AND be rezzed, so keeping Benmage alive this way would put the to-be-confirmed rezzer in jeopardy. We'd need two people who aren't me or Benmage to rez me and Benmage. And that, ye know.

I think Seacore thought I was scum yesterday s/p continuously doubling up on stalks and claiming it second. Today would probably change his mind, but idk.

Why haven't we started testing insanities?

[Iecerint]

The only reason I might disagree with you is that (I think?) someone has claimed a successful stalk on Kunkstar. Scum are probably holding a rez kit for it, though...

[Iecerint]

Oh, is Trilo the one who claimed it? And he was explicitly supposed to rez Seacore?

[Iecerint]

Oh. Yeah. That literally makes no sense.

Why would you rez someone confirmed with Suicidal over someone confirmed without it? And why would scum ever try to NK someone with Suicidal?

[Iecerint]

Who was that? Was it Wicked?

They ritualized Wicked because (IIRC) he was the only confirmed player alive at that time.

[Iecerint]

Having glanced through your iso -- you are indeed an expert Andy busser, I'll give ye that.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, that much is true. We'd lose if Trilo isn't scum:

8 town - 2 for suicidals - 1 for Trilo - 1 for ritual = 4
4 scum - 0 = 4

Unless some of the extraneous successful stalks go through successfully on scum.

Of course, this is irrelevant if Trilo is scum.

[Iecerint]

The problem is that the same logic dictates that scum can win the game by sneaking votes in while we test for suicidal.

[Iecerint]

Yeah...cult setting up a scenario that makes SX look cult to kind-of make Benmage (who ALREADY didn't look like cult) look uncult is not plausible.

EDIT: Yeah, not to mention that SX isn't exactly a crappy player.