Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[LlamaFluff]

Vote DH

No.

Beaver needs to head claim. Head claiming is pro-town, especially in games where not all players are hydras, see Supernatural Mafia.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote: LlamaFluff

Is it your opinion that people who propose antitown stuff like that are usually scum?

Not horribly, but its a great way to get the game out of the RVS, and sometimes tells about what scum might have.

@boberz - Opinion on head claim? Is it scummy to vote due to refusal? Have you read supernatural?

[LlamaFluff]

@boberz - Opinion on head claim? Is it scummy to vote [fuzzy] due to refusal? Have you read supernatural?

You missed my three questions.

Also last post for a while... going to make what I say very obvious though to try and make it happen

@EVERYONE

- SLOW DOWN IN POSTING. Best example for this in the history of the site is Death Note Mafia. It had something obscene like 15 pages a day for the first week of the game. Lots of people got lost, as scum we just corralled the active players and got them following us or killed off and scum basically just did whatever they wanted for the rest of the game since everyone was burnt out and we kept pushing cases.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Jason

Instead of theory about hydra name claiming, do you have anything in the forms of reads to offer? We have three little wagons going already.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Sleepless Assassin
FoS Sens

SA has been doing a lot of pressing people on null points just making noise and not taking stances. His first post we have

Boberz, why didn't you vote in your first post?

Kage, why did you feel the need to acknowledge Jason's vote on Zang if you were going to vote for Nacho?

Null at best points

Demon, why did you want a mass character claim, which is obviously a terrible idea

Tragedy, don't guess people's roles in thread.

(The Fonz already addressed this).

Talked about by most, here we have SA bring it up but not take any stance about it

Boberz Post 52, reaction to a few votes on him, is much scummier than anything he did to warrant the votes in the first place.

Null tell push again, and again without explaination or vote/followup.

Benmage gets a scum read, but

I won't say why just yet.

Sweet, I can elaborate because Hiraki already confirmed that my thought wasn't true. The not wanting to say more thing, to me, looked like someone with role related info. Sure, we haven't had a night. But some roles are immediately given information that can help them figure things out.

Not so subtle rolefishing here

RVS usually ends up a town lynch when it comes to group influence, mhm.

How many games have you played in where they lynched in RVS?

Kage, that post was just my thoughts as I was reading. Not my fault that I read more and realized someone else had pointed out a couple of my thoughts already.

Vote Tragedy

now that I'm caught up.

This seems like a very odd point for him to end up given his previous points. While he does subtely push on a few people in his first post, he backs off all of that to vote someone who he never really says anything about. That and the Tragedy wagon is complete vig bait.

Sens also is probably scum given his horrible vote on boberz for hating the RVS. I would rather not have a RVS or cut it down to as short as possible. He is trying to use that as a case. Im sure there are a few ways to avoid the RVS stage in games.

[LlamaFluff]

Fonz is right, DBE is not scummy and actually more likely town then most of the people that are voting her.

Players who are scummy are people like SA, Sens, NC and to a lesser extent Jason.

For why NC is scummy, same reason that Jason is scummyish. He is locked into the whole hydra debate while managing to ignore the rest of the game. Every single one of his non RVS posts relate to who the hydra is and his opinion on hydras.

[LlamaFluff]

Fonz is right, DBE is not scummy and actually more likely town then most of the people that are voting her.

I was talking about Tragedy.

Well, same applies to Tragedy. Both those wagons arent that pretty. You are right on lynching for pure information though, while some lynches will naturally be more useful in delevoping other reads then some, lynching ONLY for information, or even using it as an arguement, is a poor idea at best.

Players who are scummy are people like SA, Sens, NC and to a lesser extent Jason.

Not hiraki???

Hiraki isnt really that scummy. I would lynch any of my four over him.

[LlamaFluff]

Also on the fence about Llamafluff. Usually, he is advocating and pushing wagons, defending people, and being active. Here, he has posted a few times and then posited a vote on someone with no hope of being lynched, and has washed his hands of all leading wagons.

Ive already told you that SA is scum. When he doesnt post, and no one really seems to want to listen to me it cant really go anywhere. I would fine with a NC lynch, however SA is far better, but I dont like any of the leading wagons (Tragedy especially). The only remotely acceptable one is Hikari, but there are quite a few better lynches then him.

@mod

- Prod SA.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, the boberz and Kage points were possible leads. They were the first things I saw on Page 1, so I figured I'd dig. Boberz turned out to be null because of a meta I wasn't aware of and Kage's answer looked legit. So yeah, null points. But I didn't know that yet. Sometimes scum like to test waters before voting or feel the need to acknowledge joke votes on their scumbuddies as funny. I don't think either of those is the case here, but it was worth looking into.

Do you think scum are more likely not to random vote in games? Is it bad to not random vote? Are scum more likely to point out a funny joke vote then town are? I find it hard to really see either of these points as possible tells. If you are saying that boberz was testing the water, cant I say that you are testing the water for attacking each of them?

With Demon, I was trying to get a response about why he mentioned the idea. I think I mentioned this above in this post, but it's all about his reasons/motivation for suggesting the massclaim. I'm not going to just jump into "OMG SO SCUMMY" or defend him without trying to determine his intentions first.

Well what have you come to on conclusion? Also you do realize what trying to extract this is going to do I assume, or are you missing one of the big things that will have to occur in an attempt to justify massclaim?

On Boberz, I don't see how saying that his reaction to votes on him is scummy can be considered either a null push or lack of explanation. On Hiraki, how is "Benmage shouldn't have pointed out what looked like a power role tell even though we now know it wasn't" rolefishing. Hiraki already told us his thought process behind that, so it's obvious that I was wrong anyway. Apparently, he was just lazy.

You say that "well what Hikari did is scummy, unless he is a town power role that has information". Thats a bit of fishing since you are pressuring him on a tell that he can get rid of, if he is a town power role. Overreaction still remains the most bullshit tell in now close to three years on the site. Its not a tell.

About the Tragedy vote, there's a few things wrong with this accusation. First, the fact that I voted Tragedy over people who I didn't have much on yet is scummy why? Second, why was I supposed to see Tragedy as scummy before I actually did? Scum don't always give themselves up in their first post.

You didnt do anything to call Tragedy scum, or at least anything remotely close to the pressure you had put on someone like boberz who I thought your vote was going. You still arent pushing him, I have no idea why you are actually.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, how do you not see Hiraki as scummy? I may be biased, but I think most people find him at least somewhat scummy.

Only tell Hikari really did was his saying we should lynch DH for being anti-town. Apart from that he reads neutral to slight town. Also the wagon on him isnt made of players that inspires confidence.

[LlamaFluff]

This person needs to die to, before DH. That makes me sigh.

Unvote, Vote: tvellalot

Hardly.
The content is coming, it's still ridiculously early in the game.

Early on making excuses not to have to scumhunt. If no one ever decided to scumhunt we would never progress beyond RVS. There are even a few small wagons going at this point that tvelll is ignoring.

anyway, so far my reads are:
sens: town - I like his scum hunting, although initially I thought scum because of the vote-only posts, but I've reconsidered.
darla: scummish - A slight rumbling in my stomach says that post #217 was deflecting to scotty and #221 seemed overly defensive.

Again, overdefensive is never a tell, you have to be lying to yourself to think that is. Not sure 217 qualifies as deflection either, DBE explicitly says that the tell applies to her as well, but still brings up that sotty is active lurking. The move from the sotty to hikari I think can actually be a slight town tell after looking at a vote and reevaluating where it was, moving to somewhere that they think is better.

We are going to also bring up (a weak) deflection on DBEs part we get to bring up more textbook on your part.

In fact, we see here:

Also to Darla, what is "contradicting" about any of my play so far? What have I changed without properly explaining? More so, what had changed at the point that you made that post (Page 10) where I had, what, two posts?

...you asking the same question as me here:

Seriously though, hopping onto another bandwagon based on 'contradicting play', which you could now be accused of?
Lol.

You didn't think she warranted a vote, I did.

You say he should be applying the tell to DBE, not you. Sort of like you are... what that word... "deflecting" the suspicion onto DBE.

Then slight OMGUS, also lurking is a slight tell. Its a very strong tell for a few people.

Triple lawl

unvote
Vote tvellalott

[LlamaFluff]

This person needs to die to, before DH. That makes me sigh.

Unvote, Vote: tvellalot

Hardly.
The content is coming, it's still ridiculously early in the game.

Early on making excuses not to have to scumhunt. If no one ever decided to scumhunt we would never progress beyond RVS. There are even a few small wagons going at this point that tvelll is ignoring.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've got a legitimate vote on Darla.

Not at that point you didnt. Try coming up with a defense that applies to the point.

anyway, so far my reads are:
sens: town - I like his scum hunting, although initially I thought scum because of the vote-only posts, but I've reconsidered.
darla: scummish - A slight rumbling in my stomach says that post #217 was deflecting to scotty and #221 seemed overly defensive.

Again, overdefensive is never a tell, you have to be lying to yourself to think that is. Not sure 217 qualifies as deflection either, DBE explicitly says that the tell applies to her as well, but still brings up that sotty is active lurking. The move from the sotty to hikari I think can actually be a slight town tell after looking at a vote and reevaluating where it was, moving to somewhere that they think is better.

We are going to also bring up (a weak) deflection on DBEs part we get to bring up more textbook on your part.

Over-defensiveness is NEVER a tell? I disagree.

What you find to be a town-tell and I find to be a scum-tell is completely subjective, obviously.
So when you say "more textbook on your part", you're merely fluffing, because 'textbook' doesn't exist.

Yeah... over defensiveness is not a tell. I have been playing for almost three years and I have never seen it better then a 50-50 tell. Either way, what you find to be a town tell or scum tell is completely subjective (swear ive heard that before). When I say "textbook tell" though, its because there is no mistaking it. What you applied to DBE is far more streaching then what I have applied to you. Far more interesting whatever is you attack me instead of doing anything that acknowledges my attack on you.

In fact, we see here:

Also to Darla, what is "contradicting" about any of my play so far? What have I changed without properly explaining? More so, what had changed at the point that you made that post (Page 10) where I had, what, two posts?

...you asking the same question as me here:

Seriously though, hopping onto another bandwagon based on 'contradicting play', which you could now be accused of?
Lol.

You didn't think she warranted a vote, I did.

You say he should be applying the tell to DBE, not you. Sort of like you are... what that word... "deflecting" the suspicion onto DBE.

Then slight OMGUS, also lurking is a slight tell. Its a very strong tell for a few people.

Triple lawl

unvote
Vote tvellalott

First of all, I'm saying he should apply his scumtells to everyone they apply to, not change them to match someone you're obviously trying to draw pointless attention to. As I mentioned, scumtells are subjective to the player so what he sees as ME deflecting and what I see as Darla deflecting may be completely different actions. You admitted she was slightly deflecting yourself.

Second, slight OMGUS? What the hell are you talking about. Stop applying words to my plays that clearly don't match.

Finally, you just said Lurking was a slight tell and a very strong tell in the same sentence. R U CONFUZED?

[/quote[

He attacks you with tell X. You respond by saying "player Y also did tell X", that is deflection. Again you are trying to say DBE also deflected when people are saying you did. We are not saying she did not, we are saying that you said deflecting is scummy, and then almost immediately after, deflected yourself. They are not "completely different actions" or anything like that. Also yes, its OMGUS when you lash out at the person attacking you.

Also you apparently have a hard time reading. I said lurking is normally not a tell, however some people (like nikanor) have lurking be a huge point in determining their alignment. With some people, its a massive tell.

[LlamaFluff]

Guys, can I haz comments on Wraith? Do people think his actions are not scummy at all, not scummy given meta, null, scummy, what?

Wraith is a decent spot to have a wagon show up, especially compared to a few people that are getting votes. I like my tvell vote a whole lot more though.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, what do you think about didin?

Have a hard time reading him. He is one of the only VI players who I have a very hard time reading consistnatly. Almost all other VI players I can read much better then 50-50. Dont want a lynch of him since thats not how I like dealing with hard to reads, but I would shake the hand of anyone who decided to vig him.

Still really dislike a DBE lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

Hey LLama

Benmage gets a scum read, but

I won't say why just yet.

Sweet, I can elaborate because Hiraki already confirmed that my thought wasn't true. The not wanting to say more thing, to me, looked like someone with role related info. Sure, we haven't had a night. But some roles are immediately given information that can help them figure things out.

Not so subtle rolefishing here

Apparently it was...I don't think anyone else picked up on any sort of roelfishing attempt...

But in case it was, your reasoning for trying to highlight it is

......????

I answered that later in the game that apparently you havent got to/missed

He starts saying that he has role related info and implies that he may be scum for that because we havent had a night for any town roles, scum knows more. Then he goes on to say that if he was a town role, it wouldnt be as scummy, making the only way the tell fails to apply is if he is a town role.

[LlamaFluff]

SA starts saying that Ben has role related info and implies that Ben may be scum for that because we havent had a night for any town roles, scum knows more. Then SA goes on to say that if Ben was a town role, it wouldnt be as scummy, making the only way the tell fails to apply is if Ben is a town role.

Whose he 1?
Whose he 2?
Whose he 3?

This is easier.

[LlamaFluff]

Quote SA saying/believing I had role related info please.

Also Elaborate more your reasoning for saying "not so subtle rolefishing"...what was the purpose of this statement? What were you trying to achieve?

Ummm... saying "Ben has a role" and "he appears to have info which means he is scum, or town PR" is different. He was saying the latter, which I have already quoted, and you quoted me saying.

I brought it up when I was pushing for a SA lynch, because it was fishing, which again I have said. Right now im voting tvell, but would be happy to join a SA wagon if one showed up here.

[LlamaFluff]

I dont think DBE was anywhere near L-1... I still think she is town though, somewhat moreso then before.

Can we lynch tvell yet?

[LlamaFluff]

DBE is definite town. For those of you that have played with me, I put pre-L-1 VT claims in an extremely favorable light. But that's for another day in Mafia Discussion.

Dont steal my thing, ive been doing that for two years. This hits a couple of the requirements to make the player obv town, but does miss a few more. Given that DBE was already town before that claim though, she remains town.

[LlamaFluff]

Can we please stop talking about flavor? You can justify anyone in this series as good or evil with about ten seconds of thought.

I would be down to lynch any of: tvell, SA, kage, NC

This game needs a serious wagon, and any of those four are prime candidates

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Kage

Wagon winner! Tvell can just be bullet winner.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok game needs a swift boot

SA, Deer, Hikari, SH, Tragedy - Move your vote, you are wasting it. No going "oh but they are scum", no, you are wasting your vote and doing nothing to get your vote-ee lynched.

Kage should be lynched. Tvell would also be very acceptable. DBE is still very likely town, basically the entire wagon on her is null at best. Not digging the Hikari lynch either, that one is just based on my read on him though.

[LlamaFluff]

@Mod (and Llama): My vote is on DarlaBlueEyes.

You know that may be a step in the opposite direction.

[LlamaFluff]

More Hiraki votes, please. Darla is not the play for today and I really don't see the case against Kage. Is it just for that "He suggested Darla claim, so she claimed" thing?

First, Hikari isnt that great of a wagon. The wagon on him is full of people that make me feel uneasy. You also are ignoring quite a few of the points:

Early in the game kage didnt do all that much. His first few points he pushes are that people have connections to eachother, not who is scum. Even with the connections he points out he fails to take a stance on the people. Eventually there is a weak vote on DBE

The first one obviously features sheeping prominently ("Ditto the crowd" doesn't help Darla's case), but that in itself isn't much of a scum tell since many people could be considered sheeping on that vote and we can't really tell apart those who were serious and those who were opportunistic. However, when seen with this second quote... that seems like major backtracking. Also no reason on the new wagon vote (following DH and The Fonz).

The first quote was a DBE sheeping everyone asking for FB head claim, later she unvoted and moved to boberz. It was not backtracking like claimed by kage though. Backtracking owuld have been along the lines of "oh never mind you dont need to claim", she actually said that she did not find FB scummy, and that was why she is unvoting.

After that kage goes right back to connections and some theory talk. Almost a week into the game and the one post is all the scumhunting that kage has actually done. That one four line quote. Soon after, we get...

Great. Now I don't know if the scummy play was a result of noobishness and personal stuff or actually being scum.

So now Kage is just bouncing around between top suspects DBE, Hikari and jason. Still not scumhunting, and more making noise with small things that are incosequent to anything at this point in the game.

I'm still on board for DBE. Either she's scum or she's just completely flighty and confused town. Since there is no way to prove that the latter is actually the case, I don't mind lynching her. If she flips scum, hurray. If she flips town, we at least didn't lose anyone that would be of much help to us.

While everyone was all into the claim thing, this part is FAR more important. Kage is justifying a lynch on DBE because he is either scum or town that will not be useful. At this point instead of scumhunting, he is trying to push what is more of a policy lynch on someone, and prematurely making sure that a town flip wont give him any flack.

Eventually he pushed somewhat of a case on Hikari, although it basically is the way Hikari has been presenting reads

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

So changing reads makes him Kages second pick because those types of reads "shouldnt be taken lightly"

So read over kage. He has done next to nothing in the form of scumhunting, and always has justification to vote whoever is a hot topic at the time.

[LlamaFluff]

Nobody has articulated to my satisfation why DBE's claim suddenly made everyone bugger off his wagon.

Im going to say because it was a really bad wagon to start.

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote, Vote: Hiraki

You are making a handfull of assumptions here to justify this vote. Also if you are taking the path I assume you are taking, Mist is the lynch, not Hikari.

[LlamaFluff]

These competing wagons are a joke. The kage one is composed of at worst all slight town reads. The hikari one has two leaning town reads and all the others scum/leaning scum. I really am having a hard time seeing the Hikari case here

[LlamaFluff]

Perhaps you should try and organise your town reads then llama. I am getting fed up of people moaning at everywagon that pops up. Find the alternative, and orchestrate a decent bandwagon.

Already made the case on kage, take it you disagre? The Hikari wagon is just horrible on nearly every level, and DBE is one of the best bets for town in the entire game right now. How does 'orginizing town reads' have anything to do with this either? My town reads are pretty obvious, infact you can probably get my opinion of anyone by reading my posts.

I will bitch and moan all I can to get my way with the lynch, especially when the leader is someone I dont want lynched.

[LlamaFluff]

He's saying that the fact that Kage and Hiraki are competing wagons is a joke, since Kage, to him, SHOULD be lynched and Hiraki should NOT be.

Yep, DBE is a top five town read at worst and Hikari I have as leaning town. Them even existing is stunning to me, especially how the Hikari one just took off

[LlamaFluff]

Someone tell me why DBE is so town like!!! Or have you all signed the Official Secrets Act.

Someone tell me why Hiraki is so town-like. Has nobody read his posts?? And yeah, I may be semi-tunneling, but that's because he's so horribly scummy.

I don't think there's been anyone though that's talked about Hiraki like he's obvtown, while there have been a few people that for some reason are acting that way about DBE.

Im fairly confident he is, enough so that im going to argue him being town despite him not being one of my top town reads. Not really able to give strong reasons though. I just disagree with the strength of the case on him, and who is on the wagon is a massive red flag with me, especially as you see how fast this last little tail showed up. The wagon makes me think town, my other reads say he is town, im going to say he is town.

[LlamaFluff]

He isnt at L-1, and I know deadline isnt until Friday, but I think its time for Hikari to claim. At the pace we are going with wagons, the longer it takes for a claim the more likely we are to just herp derp around and no lynch. The less time we have after this enevitable claim the worst off we are going to be

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Mist

[LlamaFluff]

I would be happy with quite a few lynches at this point... kage, tvell, SA... then another half dozen that arent great but I would love to see get some rope.

Vote SA

[LlamaFluff]

I dont think ive agreed with another players scumlist more then I do sottys.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Jason

Lets do this instead anyways.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

We arent lynching jason. I would expect almost everyones roles adds up with characters. Homer I was thinking would be a JOAT, but thats besides the point.

Vote SA

Back to the basics

[LlamaFluff]

Ok now I am getting really pissed off at you people.

LOOK AT THE DAMN LURKERS! I mean bugger all, im not in the least bit a fan of 'lynch all lurkers' but who the hell are the people lurking? The ones of everyones "probably scum" list!

Where is tvell? SA? They are both AWOL. What happened to people saying they are scummy? They are now chasing damn shadows! Hikari wagon? People still voting Jason? A goddamn FONZIE WAGON?? We sit here with people who need rope like a crackhead needs a fix and you ignore them because they just disappear! Hell look at SA, I count 6, count them SIX posts in the last 24 hours on the site. Ten since he came back from his V/LA. Posts in this game? None. Guess what game people have been calling him scum in. Tvell has flaked, but still, now no one pays attention.

This game is grating me on. Everyone is just doing "react react react" crap and we are going nowhere in the big picture.

We need to get a good wagon going, and no one would be better then SA. If it needs to be on Kage fine, I will jump. But seriously we are letting lurkers get away with murder here.

[LlamaFluff]

Don't you think we have a lot of information to work with, to the point where we don't have to worry about the lurkers quite yet?

But the lurkers were really scummy before becoming lurkers, and one is avoiding the game, otherwise I would agree with you

We will get to them, but come on, what are your thoughts so far?

What I have been saying. DBE, Hikari and Fonz are all probably town. SA, Tvell and Kage are great wagons.

[LlamaFluff]

Anything on the new information regarding the Mist claim, hammer and votes as the effect of such?

No. Mist was a VI/Troll, the claim was absurd and the hammer was expected. I would have voted/hammered after they claimed if I wasnt already on the wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

Also come on "threats to the power plant"?

My role never mentions the power plant, just Springfield. That was one of the worst looking claims I have ever seen. If someone didnt hammer I would view it as odd.

[LlamaFluff]

I don't lynch lurkers for being lurkers.

ITS NOT JUST FOR LURKING! THEY ARE BOTH VERY SCUMMY IF YOU REMOVE THAT FACT! LURKING SIMPLY SUPPLEMENTS MY CASE!

[LlamaFluff]

Thats unexpected.... SA decides to flake in only this game...

Screw this. The game needs to go in a good direction for freaking once.

unvote
Vote Kage

[LlamaFluff]

Cool... we can lynch either/or/both of tvell and SA again.

unvote
Vote Tvell

Yes I know its not the same as SA... I think that tvell makes more sense as scum though with the new information and who I have been seeing as possible partners to him. Would be down to lynch SA in a heartbeat still.

[LlamaFluff]

Why Fonz given the tracer result?

Tracer result doesnt force us to lynch a certain way, you still lynch the best scum bet on scumhunting. This just gives us some ideas of who could be scum.

This whole thing between Sens and Fonzie is just really distracting though.

I cant believe how ugly that last votecount is. Hell a wagon of Hikari would be better then the crap we are pulling off right now just because it would give us some damn info.

@Mariyata, Nacho, Hakari, Ben, Lowell

- Give us a damn good case next post or move your vote next post. What we dont need here is a million little wagon.

@DBE, Kage, rib, SA and Cons

- Vote. Now. Seriously.

This game is just really all over the place. What we need is a wagon. If anyone trusts me enough on this, follow me here:

unvote
Vote Kage

[LlamaFluff]

The only wagon with more than 2 votes is Hiraki, who I was voting, until the plan to lynch people

off

the Mist wagon came up.

Stupid plan if you think someone on the wagon is scum. That doesnt, or at least shouldnt, change the read of that person.

Your vote really didn't help matters any, now did it? Nope.

Trying to revitalize a wagon that had six players, all still alive, on it yesterday is changing plenty. Especially since that wagon yesterday was one of the most townie groups ever to town.

Put Kage at 2. Why not hop on Jason, or Consigliere, or Wraith, or even Hiraki if you want a solid wagon going.

Well... Jason is town, Cons (who I was voting) I wasnt getting any support for, Wraith is null leaning town, Hikari is probably town. Three bad wagons and one that I dont think the lynch support I need will show on.

[LlamaFluff]

I could live with a nacho wagon actually. Apart from him almost always being scum (like farside), he isnt contributing much, which leans him to scum from what I have seen out of him.

[LlamaFluff]

@SA - What are your read on Kage?

[LlamaFluff]

If your vote is on one of the following people:

hiraki, SensFan, jasonT1981, The Fonz, sottyrulez, DarlaBlueEyes, LlamaFluff, KageLord, DemonHybrid, Nero Cain, Mariyta, boberz, ribwich

You are doing it -wrong-. Regardless of how scummy they are.

Incorrect... that information is to be used as the game goes on to help get town or scum reads. If you think someone on Mist wagon is scum, that claim should NOT dissuade those thoughts at all.

SA still continues to set off all kinds of bells. This time probably due to a majority of his scumhunting being wagon analysis on unflipped players with no real conclusions at the end of it.

[LlamaFluff]

Even with a nearly 50% chance?

I'd agree if 4-5 people were on the mist wagon.

Yes, even then. If I think that someone on the mist wagon has GREATER then a 50% chance to be scum, then its better then taking an off the wagon stab. If we are lynching off the wagon its not going to be anyone but SA or nacho at this point.

[LlamaFluff]

Throw this guy in the "anti-town" bin for not even paying attention to the game.

Would you rather have me have said "cons who just replaced tvell"? Also you should vote now, or within the next few minutes when you are caught up on the last two or so pages.

[LlamaFluff]

Even with a nearly 50% chance?

I'd agree if 4-5 people were on the mist wagon.

Yes, even then. If I think that someone on the mist wagon has GREATER then a 50% chance to be scum, then its better then taking an off the wagon stab. If we are lynching off the wagon its not going to be anyone but SA or nacho at this point.

Doesn't a lynched scum appeal to you, though? Confirmed interactions and playstyle?

Maybe I'm thinking of things too literally, but I'd gladly give up my Fonz scum read for a ~44% chance at lynching a scum and building my reads off of that.

From a purely mathematical standpoint you are correct. If we knew nothing about the game and just drew numbers, drawing from the off the wagon pool would be better. However we have things that back up people being scum and town. If you insist on playing the odds, you would have to measure a scum read of those on the wagon by about 25% (assume 5 of 24 scum, and the also necessary sens-town) and the ones off by 44%, then the greatest read would be correct. This is a game off some odds, but reads are the more important part. I will follow my reads.

Im going to resheep though and

Vote Nacho

[LlamaFluff]

Throw this guy in the "anti-town" bin for not even paying attention to the game.

Would you rather have me have said "cons who just replaced tvell"?

Also you should vote now, or within the next few minutes when you are caught up on the last two or so pages.

So that's a no to paying attention?

Thanks for playin'.

Wait so your vote without apparently having read the game is your actual vote?

[LlamaFluff]

@Cons - It will work itself out. Its like any other unprompted role claim. This isnt the time to talk about it.

Also the "poll" idea is horrible. Its just going to creat hotbed of info for scum.

[LlamaFluff]

Fuuu claim: I'm the Comic Guy.

No powers? Lynch all 'nilla claims.

Which is why you wanted to lynch DBE's claim of VT?

[LlamaFluff]

Sensor is an interesting role, because it has the potential to be really freaking powerful, as was shown in this game. Apart from that, I think the game was balanced, just the sensor needed to be pruned down to one shot. Town lacked consistant doctor protection, and the only other way to get someone out of a kill was hitting right with the RB, or me getting lucky with my one shot.

Happy with my play to an extent (told yall DBE was town and SA were scum from early on but noooo...), but I still feel this was a bit of an off game for me, given how bad I was at getting points across quickly and effectively.

This game was interesting given the balance of VI players to strong players, which there was a bit of a QR discussion regarding. This took the normal path of all the (non-scum) lynchbait players getting killed by the halfway point in the game, and without the sensor, I really think town would have lost. Too many people (including some incompetent ones) were trying to lead, and people would not just zero in on an idea. This is one of the things that so so many people miss as something scum win when they do, keep the town looking everywhere. I would rather any day of the week have what some of the early votecounts looked like where there are eight people getting voted, even if a few are scum, then have a big wagon on town. It creates chaos, it creates distrust and mislynches for late in the game.

I might think of more later.