Open 382: Friends and Enemies in MSPaint! (Game Over)

[TraceyLyn11]

Hello everyone. Alice, Slandaar, Elmo, hello again.

I've caught up, but I'm unable to post until later tonight--probably. I have a doctor's appointment today, and I am trying for my license tomorrow. After that, things should settle down, and I'll have plenty of oppurtunities to stay caught up.

Just to clarify, roles were rerandomized, right?

[TraceyLyn11]

Just to clarify, roles were rerandomized, right?

This is another question that no pony should ever answer. Why are there so many of those being asked this game?

Uh, why not? It would sort of affect my play, and probably make it against the rules for me to play. From you saying you WERE a mason, I can infer they were changed, but I'm just double-checking.

How would this affect anything?

[TraceyLyn11]

Just to clarify, roles were rerandomized, right?

This is another question that no pony should ever answer. Why are there so many of those being asked this game?

Uh, why not? It would sort of affect my play, and probably make it against the rules for me to play. From you saying you WERE a mason, I can infer they were changed, but I'm just double-checking.

This is pretty badly rolefishing.

I am saying that I drew mason in the first run of this,

this time I might have redrawn mason or am VT.

Having been a mason in first draw though I did a lot of thinking about how the game should be viewed as a mason. No matter what I drew I would have made a basically identical post.

I don't thins you understood me. I was one of the heads of Hylian, a hydra that was in here when the original game had launched before the crash. I was double-checking that roles were rerandomized bexause otherwise I would know the roles of others and it would be against the rules. I was not rolefishing. I was trying to make sure I didn't know other people's roles.

Bold: And, why can't you be scum?

[TraceyLyn11]

Just please answer the wuestion. >.<

[TraceyLyn11]

Everything is in order.

Huh?

[TraceyLyn11]

I'm home now, so I'll try and do a catch-up post now, but it

might

not be finished until tonight. I don't really know how much time I have before the doctor's appointment.

@Tracey - Did you draw scum in the first run of this? Can you explain your reasoning behind the questions a little more?

Yeah. Sorry, I was at school, and typing on an iPhone [for Mafiascum] is a bitch. I'll explain now. First run around I was a hydra--Hylian. We drew scum. Then everything crashed. Hoopla could only find part of the player list, and Hylian was not one of them. I PM'd her asking if I could join since I was originally here. She said if someone flaked I could. Someone did, and I got

their

spot. Since I didn't get my own spot, I have no idea whether we got same roles or different ones. I wanted to make sure before I started playing that roles were re-randomized because if not, I know who the scum are and should not be playing. I can infer from Rainbow's post that they were re-randomized, but I just wanted to double-check. Also, at school I didn't realize why it looked like role fishing. After rereading, I see why it was. I apologize, but I do need to know for this game to be at all fair.

[TraceyLyn11]

Im almost happy this

reset

because now I can say all my mason stuff publically since I was nervous saying that last run would make me obviously a mason.

I totally missed this.. Totally disregard the question I've been asking. I feel silly now. Though I am confused why no one would answer it. If it wasn't re-randomized then everyone who was originally here would now know Rainbow's role. If it was, then I wouldn't be able to tell whose role was whose.

@Elmo: HOW?! Anytime I touch somewhere, it goes someplace else. And half the time it randomly skips around for me. I can generally have enough patience for small posts, but you've seen me post. I like to do walls. Doing anything involving quotes on my phone makes me want to punch something because of how ridiculously difficult it is.

Why did you jump at that comment?

@Rainbow: Yes. Rang Tangler and Furcolow. Though Rang Tangler is getting replaced.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Elmo: HOW?! Anytime I touch somewhere, it goes someplace else. And half the time it randomly skips around for me. I can generally have enough patience for small posts, but you've seen me post. I like to do walls. Doing anything involving quotes on my phone makes me want to punch something because of how ridiculously difficult it is.Why did you jump at that comment?

I know you like you walls and what not but you just have to read tags a bit better and it's not really hard. I jumped at that because I do it all the time as I am doing it now

Read tags a bit better? And I know. You already said that you do it all the time. But what were you hoping to accomplish by calling it out?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Elmo: HOW?! Anytime I touch somewhere, it goes someplace else. And half the time it randomly skips around for me. I can generally have enough patience for small posts, but you've seen me post. I like to do walls. Doing anything involving quotes on my phone makes me want to punch something because of how ridiculously difficult it is.Why did you jump at that comment?

I know you like you walls and what not but you just have to read tags a bit better and it's not really hard. I jumped at that because I do it all the time as I am doing it now

Read tags a bit better? And I know. You already said that you do it all the time. But what were you hoping to accomplish by calling it out?

That its not as hard as you are making it out to be. Besides that wheres your post? of what you were doing

You hardly ever quote things, though. I can simply enough type and post. But when I want to quote stuff--especially when I want to trim quotes--I'm screwed with the iPhone. But, working on [my post]. It's almost done.

[TraceyLyn11]

Also;

Spoiler:

Its purposeful thanks.

oh ya and that seems close to the line.

I don't understand either of these. Can you explain?

VOTE: Rainbow

Kass, you and I voting the same person???

This seems non-random.

Does this merit an explanation?

The

bolded

wording is weird. Instead of asking for an explanation, Alice asked if it was worthy of one.

wats wrong with slandaar o.o lol

What

is

wrong with Slandaar? What made you ask this?

VOTE: kondi2424

I know Slan and Elmo already covered this, but I do find it odd no one brought this to attention. And, as Slandaar said, I find it odd that Elmo repeatedly dodged explaining why it sparked his attention.

Kondi: Why did you vote yourself? Reaction testing, I would assume. If so, do you think it was at all successful? Have you ever used this method before?

Also, I'd like to get some general feelers out
What do you all see as being a good method of scumhunting?
I personally find gimmicks to be very underrated. For example, reaction testing, or meta, can actually be very beneficial. Who can decipher honesty in a game of mafia, though? Easy. Someone who is good at reading meta. Reactions are also the key to some people slipping up, that can't be argued.

What do you all imagine will be the methods with which we will use to catch scum this game?

I'm going to put my money on voting analysis. I enjoy seeing which players bounce around more, seeing who is on what wagon, and analyzing the voting versus peoples words. It's fun!

I will answer your first question by saying reaction testing has become a new favorite of mine. The second question is pointless, though.

No pony answer any of Furcolows questions.

Why? What do you think about how I answered his first question? What do you think about how I didn't answer his second one?

Time to lay ground rules for this one now that I have the time to spell them out, also because in the original draw I got Mason so these were discussed a bit in the QT although I was iffy about how to introduce them without looking like mason a bit. Now I can just say is because it was in my first draw

1) This is a 13 player game. If it reaches a F3 it means that scum had five kills. There are three ponies that scum are 100% forced to kill, so they have two free kills. This means we play it conservatively around lynches and leads me to the rule

Rule #1

- You do not lynch without a claim. Period. If we accidently lynch a mason, it gives scum a free kill. This is something we dont risk leading me to

Rule #2

- If you are putting somepony at L-1, argueably L-2, say so. In VERY VERY OBVIOUS words. This eliminates scum trying to circumvent Rule #1 by saying they didnt know the votecount, or inobservant town accidently hammering.

2) The rest of the rules revolve around claiming since that can be tricky as well. They are:

Rule #3

- Dont fakeclaim. If you are VT you are claiming VT and not trying to "draw the kill" by claiming mason. If you are a mason you arent trying to be clever by claiming VT. Ive lost enough games by somepony thinking they are smart and lying about their role.

Rule #4

- No lynching a mason without a counter. Obvious but needs to be said.

Rule #5

- Masons should counter a fakeclaim. It should be countered by the mason who is in the worst position gamewise, meaning the one who is most likely to be lynched if the fakeclaimant is viewed as town. From the counter we have

Rule #6

- Town WITHOUT VOTING decides who is scum, and EVERYPONY must vote in this (masons vote so your partner is town). At that point, they must have a partner claim with them or be lynched. If they have a partner claim with them, the other must have a partner meaning two scum would need to be caught.

So thats how we play this strategy wise.

@Slandaar - Would you consider Kadassin a below or above average strength player?

unvote
Vote Pizza

Why do people think this post is townish? For one, I don't understand how this would make Rainbow look like a Mason (real quick note, I've only ever played newbie games. I apologize if I am a little slow at grasping the setup). Masons' only ability that's different from vanilla townies' is to be able to discuss with two other townies during the night, right? So how would this give "Mason vibes"? Also, a lot of this is obvious. Not really pro-town.. Just obvious. Considering Rainbow was a Mason last go around, this time she could be scum just using her Mason information to gain town-cred. I feel I wrote that awkwardly, so I feel compelled to add: know what I mean?

Have you played with Elmo or Pizza before?

Why? What were you hoping to gain from this?

So Rainbow is town. Nice rules btw. And I've neverplayed with Rainbow before. Almost joined a couple of his games but never did.

Why, oh why are you saying Rainbow is town? And why so early?! Nothing she's said has screamed town to me.. Quite the opposite, actually.

So Rainbow is town.

Was there ever any doubt? Im almost happy this reset because now I can say all my mason stuff publically since I was nervous saying that last run would make me obviously a mason. Now I can just point to "mason run one" and not worry about what I look like.

Would this be considered a softclaim? Meh, either way, those set of rules would not make you obviously a mason. You gave no indication of knowing two other people's roles, and thus, this could be just as much VT as mason as scum.

That said kondi-scum means elmo-town. Just saying.

Why?

Kass have you played with Rainbow before?

Does it matter?

Post 52; Guardian Angel Advertisement: Made me laugh!

I am saying that I drew mason in the first run of this, this time I might have redrawn mason or am VT. Having been a mason in first draw though I did a lot of thinking about how the game should be viewed as a mason.

No matter what I drew I would have made a basically identical post.

I can't believe I missed the

bolded.

Before you said your rules post made you look obviously mason (which is why you didn't want to post it), yet here you say as any role you would have posted that set of rules.

I'm ignoring all of RainbowDash's posting this game

Why?

Can you link to a town game in which you did?

I would if I had any completed after the rollback. Sorry.

What is your read on Tracy, Furcolow and Kass?

What is

your

read on me? You said you'd "pin me down" once I answered all your questions.


-------
Meh. Just a lot of questions to sort of see where everyone's at. So far my strongest read is Rainbow, so:

VOTE: Rainbow

ISO #1: She says that "there are three ponies that scum are 100% forced to kill." Scum don't necessarily

have

to go for the masons. Some people prefer to kill the most active players. Or the most dangerous. Or the PR's. There's a good chance scum would go for the masons, but I know plenty of people who have played by killing off the most active townies instead.

Under Rule #1 she says "This is something we dont risk leading me to." Leading

her

to?

I just don't even understand Rule #6.

ISO #3: "apart from me seems to be the only one really pushing the game along at this point." Hey guys, I'm pro-town!

ISO #5: "I might have redrawn mason or am VT." Conveniently leaves out scum as an option.

And that's the end of my mini-case. Probably pretty awful, but we're only four pages in, so what can you expect?

For anyone who doesn't know me, I make walls often. I try to trim 'em down somewhat, but I fail at doing so, so just bare with me.

[TraceyLyn11]

im claiming townie

Why claim?

You realize he claimed townie and not vanilla townie or mason? I think someone else questioned this, too. Of course he'd claim town.

ISO #1: She says that "there are three ponies that scum are 100% forced to kill." Scum don't necessarily

have

to go for the masons. Some people prefer to kill the most active players. Or the most dangerous. Or the PR's. There's a good chance scum would go for the masons, but I know plenty of people who have played by killing off the most active townies instead.

If a mason makes F3 scum has at best a coinflip to win, scum dont want masons around late since they are unlynchable. Im a master of doing slightly different things as scum, but intentionally letting a mason make it to endgame unless there is a huge advantage to doing so, is something that is just going to greatly damage scum since it quickly drops their chances of winning.

Maybe I just don't understand the setup (I'm used to newbie games). What is F3? My guess is three players are left. Couldn't scum win before F3?

How is "not understanding a rule" a scumtell?

It's not. I just forgot to add it to the upper part and was too lazy.xD

ISO #3: "apart from me seems to be the only one really pushing the game along at this point." Hey guys, I'm pro-town!

I will always complain about ponies doing nothing. How is calling out everypony for not doing anything a scum tell?

Because you didn't say, "Wow guys, we really need some activity here." Instead, you called to attention the fact that you're one of the only ones pushing the game along. That's not getting people to help. That's stating that you're more active in posting. And as lurking is commonly (although not technically correctly) seen as a scum tell, activity is generally seen as a town tell.

ISO #5: "I might have redrawn mason or am VT." Conveniently leaves out scum as an option.

Im town, so I would say "I might be scum" because.... why?

Because you said you "might have redrawn." Scum is still a possibility whether you're scum or not.

Also Tracy is probably town because...

She was scum in the first draw. If she was scum again, she would know that the roles were likely rerandomized, as I do since if im mason I have at least one different partner. She drew non-scum, which is why she inquired about the roles being rerandomized. I just needed to make sure that she was scum like she seemed to imply.

No, see, I wanted people to realize this wasn't a possibility. I was in the original game, but I replaced in as someone else. So I could have gotten their role, or they could have been re-randomized. The only way I would have known was if I had kept the same slot I had.. But I didn't. So although I am town, this is not a reason you should think that I am.

Why would rainbow post the rules as scum? It would do him no good to. He would be ousted by poe.

How would she be ousted by PoE?

Town cred. That said, I do not think Rainbow is scum.

This doesn't make sense. You recognize a reason why the rules would benefit her as scum, yet you said because of that, you think she is not scum?

Tracey you are town... but so is Rainbow

I hope you take this under advisement.

Meh. I don't know if you're town or scum, so why should I take your advice?!

Haze I agree on 6 it seemed wrong to me (assuming its the last one)

I wanted to see who spotted it

Bold: Was that information supposed to help you in some way..? What if no one spotted it?

VOTE: Slandaar because you must be scum this time around...

So on reanalysing this I realised that the vote reason insinuates she knows I was town in the previous roll... but how did she know?

I think she was referring to the game she had with you.

@Slandaar - If you are going to call Alice scum for (mainly) the whole QT thing, Furcolow is the right lynch since Tracy is probably town here meaning

only remaining roll one scum player is Furcolow.

Only point against Alice that is worth anything is that she gave up the hunt for reasoning behind the vote pretty quickly.

Im not buying it though because of something else I think is true.

Bold: What about Rang Tangler? Rhinox just replaced her.

Italic: Which is...?
-----
I'm more nullish on Rainbow now. Though my gut says otherwise. Slandaar is catching my attention, though I'm unsure. Alice is unusually quiet. Kass seems to pop in very rarely. Same with Haze. I don't think Elmo's scum. I'm null on Pizza. Kondi's gone.. Blueberry's V/LA. I'm null on Furcolow.

Sooooo.. Yep.

[TraceyLyn11]

In reference to Alice's last post (115): KJGsduddiubsiusgpiugeijbsojuciugebodnx. I don't

think

Alice is scum at this point. I feel like I'm going to regret saying that, but her post makes sense and follows her meta more or less.

[TraceyLyn11]

-Prod dodge-

I apologize. I'm keeping up reading-wise, but I've been having trouble finding a good amount of time to apply to writing posts. Tomorrow I am having a birthday party, but before it starts, I should have plenty of time.

Also, just to clarify, my name is spelled T-r-a-c-*E*-y.

IMPORTANT

Also, I thought I already posted this, but maybe I'm wrong and it's in my saved draft. In the original game, I was a hydra. I was scum. Then everything crashed. I checked up on this game and discovered I was no longer on the playerlist. I shot Hoopla a PM. I asked her why I wasn't on the playerlist and if I could be added. She said that half the playerlist was lost in the crash. I could join the game as a replacement if someone flaked. Soon after I got a PM saying I could replace. I asked to replace as my actual account. But, I no longer have Hylian's (my hydra account) original slot in this game. Someone else who was not an original player got it. I got ManiacalLemon's spot when they asked to replace. So even if roles were left unchanged, I had no way of knowing. Okay? A lot of people seem to be saying I'm definitely town since I would know from my original playing in the game whether roles were randomized. Though I am town, this is not a reason I should be seen as town.

[TraceyLyn11]

This is so depressing. I'm always the most active person in games because I have enough time. But in this game.. I was called inactive.D:

Well, newbie meta might not be the best thing to go off, just saying... I feel like my playing has changed a lot. If you want to read my more recent games, they're all on my wiki.

I was keeping up with Zach's Insane Mafia World for awhile.. Until Mastin unleashed his wrath. And I read a bit of Web M.D. awhile ago. They're both ongoing, but I've at least got a general idea at your play style between those and the newbie games.

hey you guys im only going to post when im interested in this game which will be when someone is being wagoned (or someone is calling me scum)

see you then!

now you see the pure scummyness from Alices posting?

So vote.

This is just silly. I don't know. I'm not holding Alice [or anyone] to something like this because I know it often times takes me longer to post in games I'm not very interested in. This is most definitely not a scumtell.

I know Slan and Elmo already covered this, but I do find it odd no one brought this to attention. And, as Slandaar said, I find it odd that Elmo repeatedly dodged explaining why it sparked his attention. Kondi: Why did you vote yourself? Reaction testing, I would assume. If so, do you think it was at all successful? Have you ever used this method before?

It was talked about and did you notice how he still didn't say anything till even after he was prodded?

I'm not sure if this is rhetorical, but yes, I noticed.

In reference to Alice's last post (115):

KJGsduddiubsiusgpiugeijbsojuciugebodnx.

I don't

think

Alice is scum at this point. I feel like I'm going to regret saying that, but her post makes sense and follows her meta more or less.

WHUT

The bold was in reference to my conflicting thoughts.

Kondi is the only pure policy lynch on that list. He is just one of those who if we kill him early town is going to do better no matter what alignment he is. Rest are legitimately scummy.

Meh. I don't much like policy lynches. Especially not on day one. They usually end up town, and then we're screwed day two with nothing to go on.

She even defends herself from any investigations by adding 'BUT I DONT THINK HES SCUM!!!' <-- Mega Defensive/Cautious

I don't recall Alice ever saying that. I recall this: "I disagreed with your assessment that Pizza was scum, though it was a valid point that I tucked away." But that's not "mega defensive/cautious"... So I am lost by this "case" of yours.

I was a little suprised by it myself since it usually takes a bit longer before everypony realizes that im obviously town.

I'm always considered obvious town very early on. Generally it's from the amount I post. This game it's from the actual content!

Slandaar, u say everyones scum. even in our last game we played. u said i was scum but wat did it turn out? i wasnt scum troll

... This is all of the input you have to add?

way more good posting from slandaar
this guy is a great player

WHAT? I mean, I like Slandaar. He's funny. But I wouldn't go so far as to say his posting and cases are good.

you say "i have a null read on her"
but you attack someone else's case? You provide no explanation whatsoever, you simply state things as fact. I don't like that.

You don't like that regardless of her thoughts on the player, she defends someone when she believes they are wrongfully accused? I could think someone's scum, but if someone says things untrue to further their case, I will defend them and point out the flaws in the case.

alice is town
alice and i had the same reaction

She's town because

you had the same reaction?

How is that good scumhunting?

Vote: Alicewondering

for disgracing Dumbledor

elmo gets a towntell off this
i was about to attack him off of getting a townread (he calls pizza town on page 2) off of page 1, but I sort of agree with this

Why do you agree with this?

I don't think you should unvote rainbow.

Do what you want with your vote, but I'm certainly not going to sheep you on a poorly made case.

Bold: Uhm, what?

I'm not sure if a Furcolow lynch is the way to go right now, but seeing how eager he is to make himself see townie before anyone has pressured him I think we could get some decent information when we see how he reacts when he's actually under pressure.

However,

saying all of that out loud kind of defeats the purpose

now so I guess we won't be going that route then.

Bold: Then why post that part..?

Also, Furcolow is more or less a troll. You're not going to get much from him even if he's pressured.

For anyone not paying attention, Rainbow became prob-town for pointing out Tracy is almost certainly town in this post - it was a very good catch, could have been very easily missed. I think scum-rainbow doesn't dig that deep to draw attention to that. Sure, there's always the possibility of doing it for town-cred, but up until then Tracy was pretty juicy lynchbait, and taking her lynch off the table like that hurts scum more than getting rainbow town cred helps. Scum only point out things like that that are already obvious for towncred, not things that make winning for them harder.

This isn't particularly true. Not for me, anyways. When I was scum, I just chose a couple of people I would buddy and a couple I would go against. Some circumstances caused them to shift throughout the game, but what Rainbow did sounds like something I would do. Especially since it's a very obvious point (if it were true). There's the benefits of towncred and possible cooperation from me.

I think you're incinuating that rainbow pointing that out doesn't hurt scum because T

racy is less active and useless to town anyways

and now a more active town player could maybe get mislynched (from some hyposcum Rainbow POV), but there's no reason scumRainbow couldn't have tried to get moreactivetownie mslynched anyways and left Tracy alone without pointing out her prob-townie-ness.

Bold: It's a sad day when I'm called inactive.. And useless to town.

As for Tracy being lynchbait, meh when I first read the thread I saw she got a lot of suspicion and didn't seem to handle it that well so she kinda came across as an easy lynch regardless of alignment. I could see scum viewing her as a possible mislynch at some point in the game, which is no longer possible due to rainbow.

Eh. There's always those little scuffles in the beginning of games. They generally don't lead to an actual lynch. But, I was just frustrated because no one was answering my question..

Lol, Tracey.

What?!

Wow Tracey is painfully obvious town here.

How?XD

@Tracey - Why are you voting me? Also read on Furc?

I don't really know. You've gone down to a null-read by this point, but I can't think of anyone else who really sticks out at me as possible scum besides

maybe

Slandaar.

UNVOTE:

I think Furcolow is just a troll townie.

Keep tuned for an EoH power move coming up here. This is just about the perfect game to unleash one.

EoH?

Scum #1

Note the sheer number of posts in multiple games while none here...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kondi

I see Kondi already said this, but he's in 10+ games.. I kind of understand why he hasn't been posting in here. Though he shouldn't have taken on that many games if he wasn't going to keep up with them all.

I swear this whole game is an elaborate troll attempt on me or something.

I KNOW, RIGHT?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Tracey: Post 153 refers to him unvoting for the wrong reasons.

Mkay, that makes more sense.

Slaandar I'm leaning scum. Tunneling + No reasoning. Also somewhat contradictory: Says reaction fishing is stupid and proceeds to post the competition of "win your own guarding angel."
Elmo I'm not sure of. I think he's scum from his blind voting. His supposed confusion might make it better, but he didn't seem that derpy when I last played.
Last is Kass. Cass I'm most sure of scummyness. There's no attempt to scumhunt and it's all 1 line posting after massive walls of quotes.

VOTE: Kass

Slandaar and Elmo.. In the games I played with them, that's how they played. And they were town. Elmo seems the most town to me out of the two. Slandaar always tunnels with no reasoning. And he generally doesn't answer questions directed to him.. But, he seems oddly.. Different this game. I can't really explain it. I guess it's more gut than anything.

So noone finds it remotely suspicious kondi posts 2 times in however many days I call him out now he has posted like 6-8 posts?

Noone finds that scummy?

lol

I do find it sort of odd.. But I think it's a bit too obvious to mean he's scum.

I think he's referring to post #89.

Either way, she wasn't being super defensive. At all.

It shows they read the thread in entirety and were thinking about it in a protown way.

If noone spotted I really dont care I dont want to let scum get by debating some 'rules' for the whole day.

So.. Does this mean you think Haze is town?

[TraceyLyn11]

If I had to guess I would say town with him yes.

Just because he noticed? Or do other things factor in as well?

Also, Slandaar, you should vote Kass with me.

[TraceyLyn11]

Damn, first loss. And first night kill. Ah well.

Rainbow, how exactly was I obvious VT?

I didn't even really consider Rhinox much as scum. I had been leaning Rainbow all the way into LyLo. Then I started doubting a bit. I ended up changing to Slandaar and kept that as my read.. Ah well. This was an entertaining game.

*Reading scum QT*
Awh, Elmo. You think I'm a wildcard?

Rhinox: "Its annoying when ppl complain about name mispellings and whatnot, at least we won't have that anymore " It's also annoying when your name is constantly misspelled and it's right in front of them.. >_<