Open 403 - Donner Party (Game Over)

[Mortontfrh]

Vote: Xalxe

because OMGUS in RVS is fun.

[Mortontfrh]

I'm not a fan of how quickly Xalxe was put at L-1, especially without any mention of it.

Unvote, Vote: Xalxe

I agree, he got awfully protective, awfully fast.

Claim

and

die.

Unvote

Vote: Fritzler

Are you aware that this was an L-1 vote? If so, why didn't you bother to make any mention of it?

[Mortontfrh]

No, it's really not considering that vote was placed at the start of page 2 where asking for claims isn't normal behavior.

I assumed he was being sarcastic with his request for him to claim, I didn't view it as a "I'm announcing that you're at L-1 by saying that I want you hammered".

[Mortontfrh]

Ummmm...it is pretty obvious that I knew I was L-1 when I told him to claim. You claim at L-1 and then you get lynched and die. That is pretty much the pretty triple truth. I am sorry that you don't understand subtext, and I will never try to read Wilde with you.

The point of announcing that you are putting a player at L-1 isn't solely for your own sake, it's to make sure that someone doesn't come along and place a vote nonchalantly and hammer him. I find this to be even more troublesome in the RVS, where players are going to be more inclined to place a quick random vote without reading into the thread.

Also, since when is asking for claims on page 2 not normal behaviour? This is my first game in ages, mate. We normally have like seven page games. I realize GOTY is going to last longer, but this won't will it?

I don't think i've ever seen a serious request for a claim in page 2.

Also, why are you such a total asshole?

FOS

I don't think i've been an asshole to you at all. However, my apologies to you if you feel like I was rude to you. Is that FOS in regards to something that I did that you think is scummy, or are you FOSing me based on my "Asshole" behavior?

[Mortontfrh]

Why would you assume it was sarcastic when you knew it was an L-1 vote?

Because we're on page 2, and it's far to early to actually be asking for a serious claim.

Do you have something against Xalxe dying here?

Absolutely. I don't think I would be comfortable with anyone ever dying this early in the game. Some of the players in this game haven't even made a post outside of the RVS stage.

Also your post right after goes from suspecting to pleasantly chatting with your suspect like you're at a tea party

You're saying that I can't suspect someone while trying to be nice to them? I try to be as nice as possible, and Fritzer felt like I was being an asshole which isn't something that I am comfortable being perceived as. Are you saying it's scummy for me to try to be nice?

[Mortontfrh]

So.. you decided it was too early because.. you say it's too early? Have you considered that other people think differently from you and you need to interpret their own tones instead of reading their post blindly?

I don't think I read his post blindly at all. Tone is hard to convey over the internet, and in a post like Fritz #26 that doesn't have much content it's hard to tell whether he is being serious or not. People like to mess around during the RVS, so I don't think it's that obscure for me to interpret his request for a claim as being sarcastic.

[Mortontfrh]

I see where its coming from when you put it that way, but I'm not putting the wagon at L-1 this early in the day. Too much information will be wasted.

If you're not going to put him at L-1, and you're not going to bother putting pressure on anyone else what exactly are you planning on doing this game?

Are you just going to sit around twiddling your thumbs until someone else puts him at L-1 or are you waiting until someone else provides a reasonable wagon for you to sheep on?

[Mortontfrh]

I see where its coming from when you put it that way, but I'm not putting the wagon at L-1 this early in the day. Too much information will be wasted.

If you're not going to put him at L-1, and you're not going to bother putting pressure on anyone else what exactly are you planning on doing this game?

Are you just going to sit around twiddling your thumbs until someone else puts him at L-1 or are you waiting until someone else provides a reasonable wagon for you to sheep on?

No, but on page 6, I don't see anything to build a case on someone to pressure them

Christ what do you think would happen if everyone had this same mentality?

GNR is probably town; I don't think scum would outright say they have no intentions of scumhunting.

I think Fritzler is still suspicious, especially given how defensive he got with just a tiny bit of pressure however Izak is a much more immediate concern.

Vote: Izakthegoomba

This is an L-1 vote, btw.

[Mortontfrh]

There is no point to scumhunting if you don't intend to catch scum. Unless you're scum hoping that scumhunting will make you look like town, of course.

Yeah instead of scumhunting we should just sit around and give soft reads until other people take the lead for us. Especially the kind of soft reads that come from scum just trying to make look like town.

[Mortontfrh]

It was sarcastic, I was implying that Izak's behavior was just as scummy as what he was harping on.

Xalxe you said you were withholding your vote until you looked further into Glork. It's been at least a day now, why is your vote still on no one? Or at the very least, who are your current scum reads?

[Mortontfrh]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Fritz, please?

[Mortontfrh]

I have too many scumreads/leaning scum this game. I'm going to unvote (at the start of a line for our mod) until I can figure out which are the top 3. Probably Thursday but maybe tomorrow if I'm lucky.

For clarification: Are you saying that Izak's no longer scummy, or more so that so many people are scummy that you need to prioritize who should be lynched first?

[Mortontfrh]

No, it isn't. Lynch the fucking prod-dodging scumbag I'm voting. Stop fucking around with the teehee quicklynches.

I'm sorry, but at what point have I prod dodged? I've been inactive the last day or so due to spending time with my family, outside of that i'm not sure what you're talking about.

The following people have done no scumhunting whatsoever: scotmany12, GNR, izak, vijay. Pick it up people! Of these, given my previous tell on him, I would vote vijay. I like that vote. His 154 seems so ironic.

Vote: vijay

Are you referring to the irony in him saying that Izak isn't scumhunting while not scumhunting himself? If so, I agree with you. However I still think Izak is scummier considering him being around and not scum hunting while trying to teeter around a soft PR claim over our heads. Regardless, i'm willing to hope on a Vijay wagon just because it seems like this Izak lynch isn't making any progress and this game needs to pick up some momentum.

Vote: Vijay

[Mortontfrh]

You realize her vote's not on you but on Chimera, yeah?

Nope I completely overlooked his change in vote, woops.

[Mortontfrh]

Really tempted to just hammer Xalxe, this is getting a little ridiculous.

[Mortontfrh]

Completely forgot that D2 started.

I still stand by my statement that I don't think GNR is scum; scum don't just come out and say they have no intention of helping the town. That's just dumb town behavior, not scum behavior.

Vote: Scotmany12

[Mortontfrh]

From what post from GNR did you get this impression from?

This one, where he says on page 6 he's incapable of applying any type of pressure:

No, but on page 6, I don't see anything to build a case on someone to pressure them

[Mortontfrh]

Going to be on V/LA until the 6th at the earliest to deal with some real life crap, sorry guys.

[Mortontfrh]

This is pretty far from him coming right out and saying he has no intention of helping the town.

Perhaps so, but his entire play has been giving off noob vibes and i'm not seeing all the scumminess that people are seeing in him.

Um yeah about that >_>
I'm going to my corner now.

Elmo isn't the type of player to orchestrate slips; I think this is a genuine town slip.

Vote: Vijay2vasandani

- I like this vote a lot more than my vote on Scoty, which i'll admit was mostly just throwing something out there trying to get something treading in the water considering my distaste for the GNR wagon.

Note: This is an L-1 vote.

[Mortontfrh]

??? interesting
This means that one of the people missing from Night 1 was either scum or a SK

Um...No?

[Mortontfrh]

??? interesting
This means that one of the people missing from Night 1 was either scum or a SK

I really think this is a scum slip knowing that the Vig was shot.

[Mortontfrh]

tell me then, what else could be the case?

We are on day 3 and you still don't know the set up. What the fuck have you been doing for the past 3 days? I'm honestly confused...Like...What in the actual fuck?

Assuming 2 anti-town factions are still here, its lylo for town.
I propose a mass claim.

If it's LyLo how is mass claiming going to benefit us at all? No one is actually going to believe any claims at all, the only thing claiming could be good for at this point is if we aren't actually in LyLo and we have a chance to kill off a counter claim tomorrow.

[Mortontfrh]

Its still a good thing to try and claim. Using the claims, we can narrow down whos town and who isnt

Explain to me how you're planning on narrowing down whos town and who isn't with mass claiming.

[Mortontfrh]

I don't care if we mass claim or not, i'm just not going to sit here deluding myself as if it's actually going to progress this game any further. No one is going to believe a single claim at this point, so claiming is pretty irrelevant.

[Mortontfrh]

I don't think it's that convincing of a scum slip considering their night kills aren't revealed either, but I still think there's a decent chance that GNR's #324 was a slip of having too much knowledge.

His ignorant play can only be extended for so long, I gave him the benefit of the doubt the first couple of days but things like not knowing the set up on D3 can't be overlooked.

[Mortontfrh]

Because there is no way that you could have known this was true unless you had some additional information:

This means that one of the people missing from Night 1 was either scum or a SK

[Mortontfrh]

I think that there is a higher chance of you having additional information and making a post forgetting that the Town doesn't know what you know than the chance of you being Town and not knowing or "Forgetting" the set up on D3.

[Mortontfrh]

Please, if you are so convinced that I'm scum, then actually make a case. You have so far presented nothing as to why I am scum. Your full of it. You lynch me and you get rid of an important part of the town.

This is scummy as fuck. I'm not voting you, because this is potentially LYLO but

#FOS: Scoty

.

Mort, you already figured out GNR is teh townie earlier. Don't let his continued flailing confuse you.

There's only so much that can continually be chalked up to stupidity and poor play. I can justify his previous actions, but I can't justify "forgetting" that there was potentially a Vig still in the game. Regardless, i'll concede that it's not something that I would be willing to stake a potential LYLO vote on.

[Mortontfrh]

You lynch me and you get rid of an important part of the town.

I seriously want you to explain to me how this is a town driven statement.

Screw the mass claiming, you're claiming in your next post or i'm putting you at L-1.

[Mortontfrh]

I think it's a nulltell because frankly it's hard to remember there are even power rolls with the blank flips. I really doubt the scum will quickhammer. Even if scot is the SK and they know it, one scum isn't going to go for it because they'll be screwed in the real LYLO. If there are two scum we're already screwed anyways so etc

Actually, this is interesting...

@Mod: What happens if all that's left is one Mafia/SK? Who gets the win? The rules seem a bit fuzzy on this one.

[Mortontfrh]

EBWOP

@Mod: Do night kills still go through if they died the same night they sent in the kill?

- Just brainstorming a bit here.

Also, Vig claims in their next post or future claims gets them instant lynched. Fantastic!

[Mortontfrh]

Why should the vig claim now?

I would laugh at this post, but I think you're being serious and it's starting to depress me.

[Mortontfrh]

Well fuck.

Now I want you to tell me how you can view that statement as anything but a town driven statement. What about that did you find so scummy? Both you and shadoweh has now called me scummy despite giving any reasoning.

Quite frankly, I thought the chance of the Vig being alive was astronomically low. Vig who shot last night would have immediately claimed to let us know that one of the factions was dead, and I didn't honestly believe that a Vig wouldn't shoot last night. Now that means that, if that statement was town driven, it could have only came from two things: A VT or an irrelevant PR. Anything but a Vig claim is for all intents and purposes completely useless, no one is actually going to believe a Dietician claim or a Roleblocker claim.

In short, I was almost positive you weren't the Vig and I couldn't see any other PR/VT making a statement like that knowing their role is currently no more relevant than anyone else role.

Moving back to square one:

That is quite a stretch from both Mort and Phil. Not feeling good about either of them right now.

Why do you think it's such a stretch?

[Mortontfrh]

Why do you think it's such a stretch?

Disregard that, i'm dumb. You're right, it makes no sense assuming your claim is true.

[Mortontfrh]

Why does the speculation need to come into play now? Why would the Vig shoot Elmo to begin with? Are you saying you think Elmo was scummy and initially believed he was Vig shot?

[Mortontfrh]

Picking up my Prod. Bit of trouble posting at the minute, but I'll try and keep up. I'd like to lend my voice to the "RB and Gunsmith *don't* claim" idea, given we don't want scum to have a choice of kills. If scot is telling the truth, then I guess my idea is completely baseless, so back to square 1.

Why are you so concerned about giving scum kill options when we're in LYLO?

[Mortontfrh]

Mort: LYLO is always the best time to take away town lynch options. The only benefit not claiming has is leaving town with it's fingers in it's bum.

I already said i'm fine with us mass claiming (See: #335) - Phil was the one saying we

shouldn't

claim.

Fair enough, my bad. I was just thinking given it's a 5 player lylo, there's going to be another night, surely? Or do I have this the wrong way up?

There's two guarenteed killing roles, so we're in LYLO depending on their shots.

If Scoty's telling the truth, however, we could still win with a mislynch depending on lucky night kills.

[Mortontfrh]

LOL

I'm comfortable lynching either one of the claims, I refuse to believe that both of our PRs actually didn't submit a night kill last night.

(which means he was town)

Explain to me why you said this? I mean, not only is it not true but it's an absolute pointless thing to say whether it's true or not.

[Mortontfrh]

This entire game is throwing my head for a spin. My only problem with lynching GNR is that it just makes no fucking sense for scum to say that they roleblocked no one. I mean, why would scum ever do something like that when someone else already stated the exact same thing?

Hmmm... i guess the roleblocker should claim now too (if they are still alive)

GNR you need to explain this.

[Mortontfrh]

Why wouldn't scum just claim a block on the dead? Elmo would have been a completely reasonable block claim TBH.

[Mortontfrh]

It's...An...Open...Set...Up...

[Mortontfrh]

GNR how many open games have you played before?

[Mortontfrh]

I'll give GNR one last chance to explain how you can forget something explicitly in your role PM (Which isn't a very long role PM to begin with) before putting him at L-1.

[Mortontfrh]

Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs

I'm not buying it anymore.

[Mortontfrh]

So...About those ISOs?

[Mortontfrh]

Ermm...If we were both scum the game would be over already.

I'll deal with this game in the morning as well.

[Mortontfrh]

Yeah both our living PRs not using their night ability really hurt us, although the more I think about it the more I think the GNR lynch was such a bad idea and I don't know how I supported it so vehemently.