Newbie 1289 - Game Over!

[JasonWazza]

Clearly some shit went down, I'd read but considering what Tierce has said i am scared to.

Also why if 1 of the replacements is scum, am i insta-town?

[JasonWazza]

(Not sure what to do at this point)

I will try and read up until the 3 replaced slots started joining in, see what i can pull out.

@Tierce; If you can without going into the iffy part of the game, why is DeltaBacon scum?

[JasonWazza]

I believe that the lack of desire to lynch yet, shown by both Leonshade and Cheery Dog are the largest indicators of scum I have seen thus far in the game, and I am inclined to pursue a lynch on one of them today. A lynch on me will flip Vanilla Townie, so no great loss, however I think it would be a travesty to not get scum at this stage of the game, in such certain circumstances.

OK speaking as one of the replacements here, I was a little worried about doing anything because of the circumstances of the game and the fact i haven't read, hence why i pushed Tierce for reasoning.

I believe that for both cherry and leon that it is likely the same in that it is confusing to do much given the circumstances of the replacements.

[JasonWazza]

No offense DeltaBacon but i think your clutching at straws at the moment.

You seem like your flailing to try and get attention elsewhere.

Also

PEdit: You might as well claim while you are at it.

Why didn't you follow this suggestion from Tierce?

[JasonWazza]

erm my bad i must have glossed over that part of the post

[JasonWazza]

your scum strategy is to seem scummy to catch scum, sorry if i don't think that makes any legitimate sense.

Not to mention your "scum-hunting" strategy has given you a list of 4 players, which is based really basically on VCA.

[JasonWazza]

That plan seems solid to find if not one both scum imo, i'd bet on 2 scum over 1 though.

Not sure who i would bank on for the second of the scum tbh, but i am nearly 100% convinced delta is scum, the rest need only be continued on tomorrow in my opinion so i am happy for someone to hammer

[JasonWazza]

Actually first time i was informed (and i would guess CD and leon are the same) that the game would continue AND i was one of the ones in the game was when it restarted.

[JasonWazza]

a mafia game is a mafia game, i would have read more had it not been for the circumstances (i read like the first 6-7 pages in the end) and i asked tierce why she was sitting on you as scum, her case is extremely valid and your flailing around makes it so much more so.

I replace into a lot of games for the main reason, don't want newbies having slots that aren't filled and seeking replacements and so on, after reading the game was halted due to said replacements, i decided what the hell that game probably needs these players a lot.

P-Edit: It does kinda defeat the purpose for newbs but i don't think it is as bad as you think, i think most will realize this is a extreme case and won't happen ever again (i hope)

[JasonWazza]

Welp i am confused with this game at this point :S

I have to agree if he had to rely on multiple slots that him possibly being slow wouldn't be the furthest from my mind.

Since Delta flipped town, I will now be assuming that it is a buldermar/leonshade scum team.
This could explain the the jumps onto bulder's slot from both leon's and my slots.
In that they were wanting a quick town win.

but if it looked like a scum win why wouldn't they go for that

My main theory is this person was a whack-job had 2 slots and did what he could to screw the game, that may not be right, not overly caring at this point.

But i'm kinda confused with the kill, Tierce is leading the charge mostly in this game so most scum would have likely killed her (not to mention she is the IC that is like newb kill central) yet she is still alive, which makes me concerned for 3 reasons
1) The obv-town read on my slot may not be from experience but a mix of experience and prior knowledge
2) That she lead a lynch on Delta, even though she said it was more likely to be scum in CD/Leon
3) Is steering as far away from a CD/Leon lynch in her recent posting.

All this makes me think that the scum are in CD/Leon/Tierce, cause Tierce would then have reason to steer lynches away from the 2 slots.

With all that crap out, i am somewhat confident in this vote

VOTE: Tierce

[JasonWazza]

OK Airicks analysis seems town to me.

Buldermar i think you need to get over the Xalxe stuff for the good of the town.

Not quite sure what i think of everyone else atm, but Tierce still feels slightly scummy to me, and she is the best i have got.

[JasonWazza]

Alright, let's tackle this:

But i'm kinda confused with the kill, Tierce is leading the charge mostly in this game so most scum would have likely killed her (not to mention she is the IC that is like newb kill central) yet she is still alive, which makes me concerned for 3 reasons
1) The obv-town read on my slot may not be from experience but a mix of experience and prior knowledge
2) That she lead a lynch on Delta, even though she said it was more likely to be scum in CD/Leon
3) Is steering as far away from a CD/Leon lynch in her recent posting.

All this makes me think that the scum are in CD/Leon/Tierce, cause Tierce would then have reason to steer lynches away from the 2 slots.

With all that crap out, i am somewhat confident in this vote

VOTE: Tierce

1) Not much I can tell you on that one except that you are wrong, and that while I have remarked on such newbie Towntells before as scum, being aware that they exist also helps me spot them as

Town

.

2) Cheery Dog/Leonshade + Deltabacon team was dependent on Deltabacon's flip, as he was the keystone. If my mind goes that the scumteam is either {Deltabacon, Cheery Dog} or {Deltabacon, Leonshade}, I will lynch Deltabacon. Makes perfect sense as a decision in such circumstances.

3) Deltabacon flipped Town and I am not convinced BT/Cheery Dog or ovyo/Leonshade are scum.

(Please do give me some credit, if I was bussing I would not balk at it like that, it's a silly idea.)

First off thanks for finally getting to this, i kinda couldn't find much else to say after this

And all your responses look very indicative of town in my mind.

1) Main reason i pointed it out was to see if you had done it as scum (and whether or not you would say) the fact that you openly said that you have done it as scum makes me quite sure of you being town

2) But considering you were more confident of CD/Leon being scum, shouldn't they have been one of the one's you lynched?
My logic may be a bit off, but wouldn't lynching the more likely to be scum be better then the scum based on another player being scum?

3) Alright then I can believe that

(what is balking? I have never heard of the term)

Anyway, I am fairly certain that Tierce is town, and her case on Airick seems fairly solid (and Airicks responses aren't the best)

Yes but I'm not currently happy joining the wagon you are leading after yesterday's delta flip.

If Airick flips scum i will be likely voting you the next day for this really poor defense.

[JasonWazza]

2) But considering you were more confident of CD/Leon being scum, shouldn't they have been one of the one's you lynched?
My logic may be a bit off, but wouldn't lynching the more likely to be scum be better then the scum based on another player being scum?

No. Sometimes one does not vote the strongest scumread--voting the scumread whose flip gives

more

information can be a good decision. The point of the game isn't just to lynch scum, it is to eliminate

all

the scum. If we had lynched Cheery Dog and he flipped Town, for example, today we would still be considering a Deltabacon/Leonshade team, and it could lead to another mislynch.

For example, in the just finished Open 453, the Town had narrowed the scum to three people--me and two others. They did not think the other two were scum together, so they lynched

me

first and then hunted for my partner (who was actually neither of the two, but that's beside the point), because the only way the game made sense was with me being scum. That was the logic I was applying to that trio.

To balk:
1. To stop short and refuse to go on: The horse balked at the jump.
2. To refuse obstinately or abruptly: She balked at the very idea of compromise.

OK then, and thanks for the example, that is really quite helpful.

And i probably should have googled balking lol, but thanks for clearing that up (though i won't clear that part up entirely there could be good reason to do so.)

Also realize i didn't change my vote like i planned.

UNVOTE:Tierce
VOTE: Airick

[JasonWazza]

@mod, please prod JasonWazza.

I ish back, family crisis caused me to be unable to get on.

Everything i said still stands, Airick should have a rope round his neck (metaphorically don't do that) and we should be lynching him.

[JasonWazza]

Cherry you miss one thing, she only got back one investigate, change preference or not, neither you or leon is cleared in the slightest because we don't know which one she cleared.

Though it does explain her change in preference.

[JasonWazza]

To me (and this is likely just me) it seem like her plan fell through when delta flipped town (the big fight over her massive change in reads) and her plan after that wasn't necessarily to follow her delta scum plan, hence why I'm not thinking Leon is cleared, my thought is she said she was overly surprised of RR's death because he was suspect and she was overly trying to analyze his kill possibly because he was her invest (if that makes any sense whatsoever)

[JasonWazza]

If there is a Jailkeeper, claim in your next post, actions and all.

If there is, we've got a nice process of elimination for today. If not, that's fine. I should be clear that a JK claim is not auto-cleared, but it's something to work with.

Wouldn't it be better to have a mass claim now?

We are in LYLO after all.

Means we have a little more to work off at least.

[JasonWazza]

Sorry about the wait on info from me, knowing Leon is likely inno, it's clearly between buldermar/Cherry/Xalxe CD seems town enough, though i will re-evaluate tomorrow (assuming i live) which means it's buldermar and Xalxe in my point of view, which is odd cause they are both going at each other, but they both seem like a pair that could pull off a bus to try and gain the town credit.

Xalxe though i feel is more likely to be scum, he came in saying Tierce wasn't mafia (says today he would have rode her to a lynch) due to meta which doesn't seem like something that should happen.

VOTE: Xalxe

[JasonWazza]

CD i also was very loud and pushed the lynches hard enough they went through, but i have to say, if i am playing against you would i play the same as in my known scum meta?

[JasonWazza]

I'm just saying this because it looks like your trying to keep the sights off yourself.

[JasonWazza]

I don't mean to completely undermine your meta, but comparing to just one game seems unreliable.

When there is only one game (and a recent winning one at that), that's the best I can have on meta, it turned out to be fruitful.

To be fair at the time it was my only scum meta game, though he could compare it to my town meta, however he was in the game he is using as meta so he would know more thoroughly how i act as scum.

Also how was it fruitful CD?

[JasonWazza]

No me not flipping on Buldermar proved i am not scum with Xalxe, you gambled on that being true.

And if i am town all this just goes out the window.

But this makes me seriously wonder, had i voted bul, would you have voted Xalxe or would you have hammered bul?

You seem a bit timid with your vote at this point, if you think Xalxe is scum why not hammer him?

Granted Leon is confirmed but this is making me wonder at this point whether or not you are scum.

[JasonWazza]

So do you or do you not think that Xalxe is scum?

Cause you seem to be going round in circles right now.

[JasonWazza]

Ok let's try questions now.

OK Airicks analysis seems town to me.

Buldermar i think you need to get over the Xalxe stuff for the good of the town.

Not quite sure what i think of everyone else atm, but Tierce still feels slightly scummy to me, and she is the best i have got.

Anyway, I am fairly certain that Tierce is town, and her case on Airick seems fairly solid (and Airicks responses aren't the best)

Between this posts we had this post by Tierce, What exactly about that post made you completely switch your mind on those two people?

Ummm did you not read her post?

The post looks fairly town and the way she explained her reasons for the reasons i had voted her seemed town, now it might be just me but if someone addresses the points of my case on them and does it in a way there answers seem town, i tend to get a town read on that person.

[JasonWazza]

Woot

Sorry CD but you should have stuck to your guns

[JasonWazza]

You should, Xalxe should have tried harder to seem town.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah this game was screwed majorly but at least it came down to an interesting LYLO situation.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah Tierce but i did kinda convince him to do that, not that it needed doing lols.

I just wanted to push CD enough that he hammered, and i ended up doing it effectively

[JasonWazza]

Yeah and i was planning that attack on Tierce to be perfectly honest.

But she defended well

Don't take it personally though you were just an easy target.

[JasonWazza]

Oh buldermar you cool with posting our quick topic?

[JasonWazza]

Mafia Quicktopic

It really isn't that interesting, but hey i always enjoy looking at them as town

[JasonWazza]

JasonWazza 461:

"neither you [Cheery Dog] or leon is cleared in the slightest because we don't know which one [Tierce] cleared."

You had better hope you are scum, kiddo, because this one is complete bollocks. Obvious crumb was incredibly obvious.

it may have been obvious but i don't want any clears, funny that no-one pressed me for this, the crumb was so obvious i was just trying to manipulate it so it didn't seem so obvious (clearly not well).

CD why didn't you pick this one up specifically?

Cause our last game i tried to keep us from having a doc clear (whether he was rightfully cleared or not (for those that don't know the "clear" was town but happened due to me and my partner not submitting a kill by accident))

These events also indirectly lead to me making the error/concession of allowing Buldermar to function as the mafia rolecop; I continued this practice in Night 2 for consistency.

I actually didn't know that I under normal circumstances would not have been allowed to. I'm sorry about that if it affected the game in any way.

I think that mostly varies between mods, most mods don't let the goon choose the rolecops target, some do.

[JasonWazza]

Also as a matter of learning, if someone tries to discredit a clear, she/he is either scum or extremely paranoid, if they aren't jumping on everyone's backs and trying to keep everyone posting and not taking there eye off people, then they are fairly likely scum.

Unless of course the clear happens to be the most likely scum in the game, that throws it off a bit but you get the gist.

[JasonWazza]

Wait so you hammered him because you thought he was using Tierce's breadcrumb to clear you AND Leon?

I thought it was pretty clear he was just convinced that me and buldermar were scum.

Still making more clears isn't something that scum is likely to do (he would have HAD to lynch Bul then lynch me, as scum you prefer to leave your targets open with as few clears as possible.), and the fact that you played guessing a xalxe/Bul team a day early (you could have waited for Leon to either lose the game or hammer scum) when you could have easily waited a day and put both me and Xalxe under more pressure in 3p LYLO.

Paranoia aside, it is always best to draw LYLO out as long as possible, Bul was confirmed scum (for you and Xalxe), and you could have given the scum more time to slip up, and i doubt i would have gone another day with out screwing something.

[JasonWazza]

I don't understand why this game didn't just get restarted from the beginning.

It was my decision, with advice from the list mod, to attempt to continue the game with minimal disruption. I do not think that the game was corrupted beyond revival; as only one of the players concerned was scum, and they hadn't had an opportunity to post in the QT, there is no possibility of scum-sided gamethrowing, and I don't believe the town was influenced enough by those three slots to significantly affect the outcome of the game.

To be fair coming into one of the scum and one of the 3 multis, i think what happened is that they wanted a town win as soon as possible (hence jumping on Buldermar), not that i am totally sure, and it showed from the fact that no-one deduced it was this that it wasn't beyond revival.

Everyone just should have scum-hunted.