Micro 134 (F11) (Game Over!)

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Dazed and Confused

This vote doesn't move until Mina makes this slot obvtown.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Dazed and Confused

This vote doesn't move until Mina makes this slot obvtown.

Pfft, I'm already obvtown, son.

(P.S.: I'm easier to read than Mina.)

I want Mina. You always have to hide in hydras when you play with me.

[Nachomamma8]

1) Didn't realize Sixty was hydra... even with knowing that it wouldn't change my vote.

2) I will reveal my reasons,not right now though.... I want everyone to weigh in on the issue first

what issue do we need to weigh in on?

Besides Nacho needs to get in here with more than just an RVS vote.

that wasn't an RVS vote.

[Nachomamma8]

I have played with FT before it would not surprise me if he came in and hammered without paying attention.

What the fuck are you talking about? I was the only townie making any sense in that game. I had Majiffy down as scum on D1, called that Thor was recruited by Cult, and was trying to tell you guys that Voided was town too. You guys lynched me for the loss, if you remember. It had nothing to do with me derping or not paying attention, either.

Vote Rach

but that was another game
what makes rach scum in this one?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you're no fun. What's the point of hydraing with Empire if I have to be obvtown myself? Are you telling me I have to work, too? See for example, right now, I'm posting nothing but a useless post dodge and no relevant opinions other than a throwaway question in response to what looks like an unremarkable post. If I was hydraing with CES, we'd be the biggest wagon by the time I came home from work. But it doesn't matter, because thanks to the power of Empire, I'm untouchable! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! FREEDOM! *goes streaking through the thread*

If I had to depend on Empire's towniness in order to get a read on this slot, then I'd actually have to read his walls.

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

[Nachomamma8]

(P.S.: You feel vaguely like lurker-scum. Is this true?)

No. Feel underneath my rough exterior and you can feel the real me.

Nacho I know you are a good enough player not to jump on someone just cause they are suspecting you of being scum, so what gives with the CES vote? Please share with us.

Feeling.

you think I'm the readable one because...um...Empire writes too many walls for you to bother reading him? There's an obvious problem with that logic. (Hint: alternate possibilities for the name of this hydra were "The Wall" and "Ramble On".) What's weirder is that first you say you don't trust Empire because "he hides behind hydras" (huh?) but then use t? Can I have a serious, non-coy answer to where your meta stance came from? Also, although I don't fault the idea of "I'll vote this person I believe is easy to read until he/she is obvtown" in RVS, the post I made that changed your mind was literally, "Empire is obvtown, so I don't have to do anything."

The obvious problem with that logic was the joke of the vote, and not trusting Empire because he hides behind hydras was *mostly* a joke. Your response ended up as pretty town anyways: not because of substance, but because of tone.

Lastly, would you have played this game any differently if you were the opposite alignment to what you are now?

Probably. Can't tell you how, but I seriously doubt I would approach it the same way.

[Nachomamma8]

You can get a puppy anywhere. It's a very rare occasion that allows you to feel up a religious conservative without consequence.

[Nachomamma8]

My main issue is that you seem distant/disengaged, you ask some questions but you don't appear like you care about the answers. For example, you seemed interested in the whole FT/Rach argument when you asked FT something in #47 but there's no sign that you've considered his response. Basically, the impression I'm getting is that you're trying to seem busy and contributory but you're not genuinely/actively scumhunting.

That's a problem that can easily be fixed. It's not that I'm not paying attention; I'm just holding the dragon back for a bit so I can get some other stuff done.

Oh and Nacho, justifying the CES vote as a "feeling" ain't gonna fly, not when the vote came at a really suspicious time (e.g., when the pressure started to mount against you).

It will fly for a little while longer because it's a good feeling.

[Nachomamma8]

let me catch up in a couple of other games first
then i have a present for you

[Nachomamma8]

Done!
CES's meta comes in groups.

town groups:
Mini 1368, Black Flag Nightless, Open 448, Micro 17, Newbie 1336, Open 394, Open 393 is one group.
Micro 59, Open 453, Open 433, Chrono Trigger Resurrection, Mini 1341, UT Newbie Van, Mini 1406 is another group, with Author Mafia and Mini 1324 being two special cases that we most likely won't see here. If he's town, we'll either see his play follow the first group, which is the CES we don't have to worry about because he's lynching scum. In the second case, there's this usually a point where he buckles down and goes "fuck it, I got this" that I'm decently confident he can't won't fake as scum, but some good CES scum games could help me back this up pretty nicely. The only good scum game I could find was NY Mafia 155, which didn't have the buckle down moment his replaced-in towngames had and no reason for it not to occur. Gonna find another scumgame to be sure, but I'm feeling pretty confident about this now.

meanwhile

Unvote, Vote: jasonT1981

jason has trouble faking reasoning as scum, and he's having plenty of trouble faking reasoning here. Sheeping CES while putting his vote on the easier lynch seems strange to me.

I don't really get many scumvibes from Sixty, get townvibes from Dazed and Confused. Mina's reaction to my vote seemed pretty town ("wait, why was that obvtown?"), and Tierce/Empire banter seems fairly standard and not something that I'd expect if they were trying to fool CES. Rach seems town as fuck thanks to how she's treating me/CES, Sotty is null as fuck until she actually does something (while I don't really expect her to open up the game with "I'm sick, don't know what's going on" as scum, I do know that she went through a case of the alignment fatigue and I don't know whether she got over that yet or not). FourTrouble thinking that he was a priority for Rach to discredit was town as hell, and I don't really give a shit about Josh yet because he's going to flake, but I doubt that he's partners with jason.

[Nachomamma8]

i've read your ISO, i skimmed a few things around the end.

[Nachomamma8]

jason has trouble faking reasoning as scum

Actually, I do think you are wrong, I don't like to self meta, but my arguements are more solid when scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm finding Sotty fairly town for her Tierce exchange.

-Nacho, what was the point of your massive analysis of CES's meta? You didn't actually connect any of that to anything he's done this game. You're just telling him what kinds of behaviour you'll read as town from him in advance. And that still doesn't explain why you don't like CES in the first place.

My point of my massive analysis of CES's meta is to make myself a threat to him as scum. I want him to know that I'm not going to dismiss him because I can't read him, and that if he's not going to bus this game, he's going to need to fake that "moment" or I'm crushing him. I don't necessarily find him scummy yet; I was voting him to bring attention to him and see how he reacted before I went through the meta read.

He's the common link.

Between...?

Speaking of Nacho, one of the things that sticks out in my mind plus in research is he tends to hard bus his scum buddy One of the reasons I would like to wait til he can speak is to see if he does that. Would help us get both of the scum in one swoop.

The other reason is I do not feel comfortable with lynching someone who is V/LA

Rach is extremely town.

By the way, Rach, that Nacho comment is STILL not content. Again. Whatever your alignment, I'll be quite disappointed if this game turns out to be a repeat of the newbie game I modded where you were an IC. Shape it up. You don't need to go on mega tours of meta research, but you have to provide content that is pertinent to this game instead of just coasting with promises of 'stuff' to come.

...and if you can't read her by now, you need to do some shaping up yourself.

I shall try... I am failing in all my games right now. :/ all my fuckin' pre-ins came up at once lately. I try catching up in one, I fall behind in another. URGH

it feels like my hands are tied with regards to you right now and I hate it.

[Nachomamma8]

Between...?

{Nacho, Jason} and {Nacho, Josh}. Obviously?

P.S. I don't think you know my scum meta very well.

and I don't think you hide yourself as well as you think you do
but we'll see about that soon enough, won't we?

[Nachomamma8]

Speaking of Rach, am I barking up the wrong tree completely there? What's your opinion?

I think you're being too hard on her. Yes, she's being a bit fluffy, but she's definitely busting her ass off to get some things done and this is such a far cry from the times I've seen her as scum that I sort of doubt that she could fake something like this. Especially as it pertains to dealing with me/CES; I find she gets scared of me as scum (and as of now, probably regardless of my alignment), and the whole "CES, please go after Josh" seems like something that she would not say in any scumiverse at all.

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3943559
She has a tendency to immediately start on ISOs the second she's asked for content, and is normally pretty fluffy otherwise. See here her ISOs on Page 4 of a newbie game we played together.

[Nachomamma8]

I especially like your case.

Are you done catching up for today?

[Nachomamma8]

No, I just finished Page 8.

Why do you ask?

Doesn't matter for now.

[Nachomamma8]

Mind you, whoever is scum clearly thinks we're incompetent braindead morons for

not

having killed us last night even though we were more trusted than Sixty, so fuck you guys.

CES, admit it. That makes you scum, because you definitely don't think of me as a threat, right?

Um.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Pretty sure you're not cool enough to get away with that.

so there's this giant elephant in the room that has something to do with "CES why did you quickhammer yesterday"
would you like to escort it outside where elephants belong?

[Nachomamma8]

magic man!
make the elephant disappear, please.

[Nachomamma8]

I did mention the VT softclaim. Beyond that, it's fairly standard stuff? Didn't see any reason to let him claim if I was willing to lynch him despite one.

that's disappointing. i was hoping you would have something better than that.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: jasonT1981

Sotty-Jason. I don't think CES is scum because CESscum's biggest fight this game is going to be against paranoia. Quickhammering a cop or risking quickhammering a cop makes no sense for CES if he's trying to avoid paranoia.

[Nachomamma8]

No, I cut myself off before that happened.

[Nachomamma8]

No, I cut myself off before that happened.

I think whatever your original joke was supposed to be flew over my head.

Better that way, I suppose.

I also am considering a push at fourtrouble for his L-1 vote.

Why do you think CES and FT are scum outside of the hammer and L-1? Do you think they are scum together?

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

This doesn't really do anything to make a jason/sotty scumteam less likely.

And Nacho, step it up. I know you're capable of being very readable (well, granted, I think I've suspected you in every game I've played with you) and protown when you give a shit. But right now, I'm second-guessing everyone alive. You've basically done nothing to actually make me think that you're town beyond a couple of surface reasonable comments. Why were you posting in virtually every game but this one while Whiskers was being wagoned?

I was posting in a few other games while Whiskers was being wagonned because that's right after I took a V/LA, and focus in catching up in games was in places where I was needed more.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks when night came in that I had Jason read wrong. I need to double check something about his scum meta but other than that there is nothing to really elborate. If you find him scummy for lack of posting I suggest you look though all of his games right now. If there are other reasons, lay them out and I'll listen but the one scummy thing I have heard is his lynch-1 vote on Sixty and that's still not scummy for me. So if it is anything else then lay it out.

it's not that he's lurking; it's what he does when he comes around.

Me and Jason because I attach myself to my scum buddies like this? No really, what's the rationale behind this?

you protect him for one more day by taking a firm stance instead of waffling and trying to distance or just bussing him. it's much more natural, and while it would suck if he got lynched first and you were tied to him, you have plenty of time to defend since you know there isn't a cop in the setup.

[Nachomamma8]

I know you're capable of being very readable (well, granted, I think I've suspected you in every game I've played with you) and protown when you give a shit.

there's more than one way to make yourself readable.
my favorite way is by lynching scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Examples?

So, after a re-read... I am still not sure wtf is going on. Josh and Nacho for scum though. Both mostly gut, but Josh jump on me was scummy as fuck.

The reread makes it seem like he put in more effort than he did, not the smallest bit of new information was weird.

Can we just cut though the crap and get your scum reads and reasons for why? That would be most excellent.

this, too much talk of past games and meta is really putting me off!

That's not what you were saying at all, and seems like he was agreeing with you just to agree.

Very tempted to vote Whiskers right now, josh was meh, whiskers done little to convince me that kitty is a soft kitty....

tosses unneeded support onto the wagon, does nothing else

I also am considering a push at fourtrouble for his L-1 vote.

probing for support of an easy target
no followthrough when no one takes up his offer

This is pretty crap but okay.

How would you handle jason if you were scum together otherwise?

[Nachomamma8]

Who do you think is an easier target for jasonscum?

[Nachomamma8]

Do you mean who is an easy target for him to attack? Like I said, I don't think anyone is easy in this game.

I'm talking about the target of least resistance for scum-Jason. There are a limited amount of mislynches he can push without getting shit for it, and FT is definitely one of them. CES is going to be a hard player to lynch thanks to the playerlist, so he definitely needs a backup plan if the CES-push fails. And he's going to fall on... who?

[Nachomamma8]

Why are we talking about hypo Jason lynches? I mean, I don't get it. You are much guiltier of what you are trying to push on him here. I can barely take what you are typing seriously.

Yes, I am. I am pushing what should be the easiest lynch in the game right now, and I am putting my vote behind it. I see jason being a lurking scumfuck and I am lynching him for it. Jason is posturing fpr HIS easiest lynch in the game while sheeping recent CES hate.

[Nachomamma8]

Explain this.

Ongoings.

And this.

I was waiting to see how Whiskers would react to the me-Sotty exchange over Rach, but I didn't want to direct them to it. I wanted to see if they would comment on it when they reached it.

[Nachomamma8]

More like making an empty statement with little to back it up with.

Then where did lining up lynches come from?

exactly, its a load of tosh.. you bus and bus hard as scum.

If she played the same as scum all of the time, she wouldn't be a good scum player.

I think there is a good chance, fourT put Whiskers in the position for a Quick hammer.. there is also this from D1

The only thing outside of the L-1 vote was OMGUS from page 6?

I suggest you read, Josh was already a scumread of mine before whiskers came in

What did your support accomplish?

That said, I could easily see him being town here given what little I know about his meta (will have to go through this again when I get some more time).

what part of his meta

- I reread Nacho's ISO and it's still UGH...I think what differentiates him from Jason in my mind this game is that I have higher expectations for him and he's been completely lazy/disengaged here, there's none of the fire I've seen from him in any of the town games we've played together and I get the impression that his push on Jason is just him going after low hanging fruit. So yeah, vote sticks until I figure stuff out.

If you want me to be more interesting, then entertain me, give me a reason to be engaged. Otherwise I'm just dragging my feet until you guys make a strong push somewhere or suddenly realize "dismissing jason because it's jason is not good reasoning and hey he's actually scummy".

[Nachomamma8]

LA for the next week.

Nacho, do you still think it's a Sotty-jason scumteam?

Yes.

I don't want this to sound harsh, because I like you and respect you as a Mafia player, but we're here to find scum, not to keep you entertained. There's plenty of stuff to engage with if you try. (Alternately, don't sign up for additional games in the first place if you're in so many that you can't pretend to care about all of them). Did you read our posts before the last one? You'd see that you are actually our number one barrier to voting jason right now. If you got sucked into a black hole and removed from the game, or if you were mod-confirmed as town, our vote would be on jason. But you're here. So our vote is on you instead. How does that make you feel?

I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I do care about the game at the moment, but it's not important for me to engage CRISIS MODE right now, if that makes sense. I do plan on engaging Sotty after she follows up on her #476, but until then I have everything I need.