Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

Yes... Which is part of the reason why I reconsidered my thoughts on him Nero...

~Mara

[Ms Marangal]

I wasn't going to come back here until HD caught up so that we could talk, but he decided to bail... that might mean I'll be that much more active though

Ffery, It was sunday for me and I'm pretty sure I was around for my higher priority games, not even touching any of my Hydra games. I did question Demon when I made the initial vote, I'm pretty sure I did and then I remember Swords saying something that caught my attention.

I made like, 2 posts though since I voted him. One was me questioning me him, and another was me trying to figure out why Swords pushed Ghost over me when, in the past he was never shy about doing such.

since it's just me now though...

I don't like how Demon try's to subtly try to get me not voting him. at the time, we had about a week left and as such, there was no need to be on a "Plausible realistic lynch wagon" since, everything is pretty much free-game at this point.

His early push on Matt was shit and his reason for not believing that he was scum was a terrible twist of Burden of efficiency and it was a push on him being more anti-town than scum

His vote on Selkies was terrible and again, it was placed because they were Anti-town and his vote is essentially OMGUS. He's trying to keep his cool under then (Orci?) pressure and looks like he doesn't want to be seen as someone who is over-reacting

People have started to talk about Beli-scum while he was still lightly pursuing other avenues then, he suddenly votes for Beli...

the vote was opportunistic because

People were already expressing interest in Beli-scum while he was not. Beli was already obtaining verbal pressure when Demon voted him which is usually a good indication of a wagon picking up.

being the first two voters on a lynching wagon is good for scum because those people usually receive the least amount of pressure. I believe I caught scum a few times for them being early on a lynch wagon.

The fact that most of his votes were either the first or second vote placed, and he moves his vote as soon as a wagon seems to be loosing steam strengthens the fact that Demon is scum.

[Ms Marangal]

Quotes or it didn't happen?

???

This is your response, your not even going to try to rebut anything?

you aren't even going to try to deny how my points on your votes being opportunistic don't apply?

Because I thought that your play looked like scum trying a gambit, and not town playing antitown.

I think the former is more likely because I consider you a player with a high level of gravitas that has some kind of a grasp on the understanding of why a play like that would normally look town.

This is your point on Mattscum, is it not? how is this not a twist of Burden of proficiency? You say it's scummy because town with as much experience as Matt has under his belt isn't likely town playing anti-town

how are my points not looking for scum motivation? I explain why it's scum action over it being town action.

Milks reactions to everything are terrible.

Yes, you know I’m not shy about it…I haven’t gone after you because you haven’t been very active. You only have the few posts..You do seem to get more arrogant as scum and aren’t afraid to post..however, this game, you’ve mainly sidelined (mostly because of your other head from what you say) so I’m not 100% sure on you…now that that you will be posting more, I expect to get a good read on you. Where as with Ghostlin, I’m more certain...

are you saying that I'm scared to post as town?

550 makes me thing Ghost is town, I really cannot see town making that kind of statement so tell me again your case on him?

I'm not catching the Crumbs your talking about.

Pedit: we do? fuck Uh..

I'll check the main wagon and see which ones I can get on, but I would much rather have this demon lynch

[Ms Marangal]

Milks reactions to everything are terrible.

terrible scummy or terrible townie?

- fferyllt

I don't even know, I want to call it scum terrible posts. He's moved from calling people scum to trying to placate them... I think. It feels like he's overwhelmed like he doesn't know how to get out of being caught

Demon, I was talking to Swords about the crumbs though I would still much rather prefer you. I can't quote where you have been opportunistic because it isn't your posts themselves, on their own they are null but it's more of what has been happening around it, the environment of which you have made your posts. The environment that I have explained when I stated that I believed you to be scum

[Ms Marangal]

Between the three main wagon, I don't think I can get on the Thad wagon. I don't understand the Premise behind that one at all, he hasn't done anything to standoutish to me and I think I'm thinking the same thing he is RE Omens

Ffery, explain that scum-read to me?

Between Omens and Milk, I think I would prefer Omens. If no one wants to move to Demon tomorrow, I'll probably move my vote there

[Ms Marangal]

Thad-scum read

[Ms Marangal]

Now I'm def's not going to vote Thad, I mean who the hell puts down a vote on someone who soft's a PR?

[Ms Marangal]

And now we have this guy Fishing FFS -_-

He can defs soft claim and, if it's true he will likely be killed tonight anyway.

VOTE: Milk

there is no way you can be town

[Ms Marangal]

Well...

it does, but Fake Claiming PGO as a Macho Inno. Child is Just as Odd.

He is also at L-2 and we only have 4 days left before we lynch scum. There could be many reasons why he isn't full-claiming and I don't think trying to draw out those reasons isn't something a townie would do.

[Ms Marangal]

It's a reference to another game. Explaining how the two relate is hard, though I think Ffery will know what I'm talking about since we were both in that game

[Ms Marangal]

So...

I'm awkwardly defending one buddy, while awkwardly distancing from another?

GTFO, you know I'm a better scum-player than that

glad to know that you aren't ignoring me though

I didn't have Ghost as first pick, never did. I had the three of you pretty much on equal footing and I couldn't figure out why I was scum-reading him, and I didn't like how you decided to go after him over me despite thinking I was scum.

and, you know, having two scum-reads start 1v1'ing really makes a person reconsider their reads, I backed down because I felt you were the scummier of the two

and yeah, I don't want to vote Thad, and I don't like the reasons on Thad scum. I think he's town, I don't understand the wagon on him, and I think it's shit. I also like to think that, as scum, he'd be more open and would show more care towards getting lynched cuz, you know, scum suffer more from getting lynched than town. Especially early on...

and I was never going to vote Thad, he stayed close to the top of my town-reads for a good amount of the game, who was the PR soft I was going to vote?

It was both 449, and 550. 550 had a bit of town AtE though, actually more than a bit and I was talking more about 449. Never, ever have I seen scum ask town to lynch them before mylo, lylo. It's more than enough to make him a, at least, leaning town read

and Cops, WTF is that? why are people so afraid to take me head on? if you don't like what I'm doing then question me? like, seriously

Ffery, yeah that and I can't really find anything scum-optimal in being resistant to the norms.

[Ms Marangal]

Uhh... yeah, but you couldn't get anyone else to believe you

and despite me wanting my buddies around, I never outright defend them, nor have I ever called my buddies town. I havn't even called Skrew town and I bussed what'shisface

as for why I suddenly found you scummier...

Oh, oh wait, now I remember

Swords, I initially liked your reason because it was the most detailed on of those on the Milkshake wagon and I had glazed through it. there are nearly 2 pages of between those two posts you have stated and a few people have made good points on you as well, which caused me to reconsider. That, and I had taken a closer look at that post and realized it wasn't as good as I had originally thought

~Mara, this is for the above one as well

and no, Thad didn't give reasonings in thread but looking at what happened when he stated that he would be willing to vote you gave me the impression that something you did made you look scummier, and it was around the time I started feeling more certain that you were scum

as for the 1v1, I feel like you chose the easiest attack of your three "suspects"

So..you’re claiming you’re smart as scum, but dumb as town?

No? I don't think I'm dumb as town either

[Ms Marangal]

erm...

no, and why ignore the rest of my post?

[Ms Marangal]

Swords, why are you ignoring me again? Stop trying to get out of convo with me

[Ms Marangal]

no, and why ignore the rest of my post?

Because you are scum..you get overly cocky as scum and you're doing it here...
do you want me to touch on everything? Fine.

No, I'm not and no, I don't

and despite me wanting my buddies around, I never outright defend them, nor have I ever called my buddies town. I havn't even called Skrew town and I bussed what'shisface

Yes, but soft defend…that’s what you are doing here…and yes you did it with Skrew..
As far as bussing whatsisface..you were told to bus him in the scum QT..

Yes, but I was fency on Skrew, I specifically stated that we shouldn't have voted him until he stated something, or until he got replaced, and he eventually did.

Here, I'm more than certain that Thad is town...

Your response to me being scummier in 1v1 reasoning is a cop-out:

???

Swords, I initially liked your reason because it was the most detailed on of those on the Milkshake wagon and I had glazed through it. there are nearly 2 pages of between those two posts you have stated and a few people have made good points on you as well, which caused me to reconsider. That, and I had taken a closer look at that post and realized it wasn't as good as I had originally thought

Like i said previously in #614...you thought i was good until people gave me heat, and then you tried to back-track like your hair was on fire...

and?

and no, Thad didn't give reasonings in thread but looking at what happened when he stated that he would be willing to vote you gave me the impression that something you did made you look scummier, and it was around the time I started feeling more certain that you were scum

So “something” i did must have made me look scummier to ThAd..and you agree with that reasoning...yet you don’t know what that “something” is...ok.

Thad stated that he would be ok with jumping on you wagon when you started attacking Ghost.

as for the 1v1, I feel like you chose the easiest attack of your three "suspects"

Yeh...considering i had more on Ghost, why wouldn’t i go after him? You were sidelining and as i said, i need you to post more to get a read on you because you DO get a lot more cocky as scum, and ThAd was questionable with not a lot to go on...

If you needed me to post more, why didn't you pressure me? that's what I want to know. You stated that you needed more from me, but you were content with letting me go where, in the past you didn't even let me do such a thing IIRC.

you asked me one question, and that was the reasoning behind my sudden switch RE you

I was, and still am thinking that Thad questioned your push on Ghost while leaving him alone. you had him as weak scum but you didn't question him. you had him as scum, but you placed your vote on Ghost over him when he was closer to lynch.

What ran through my mind at the time was you didn't want to be the 3/4 vote because the 3/4 on a wagon is a well known scum-tell that you didn't want to be caught doing so, instead you opted for being a wagon leader. on Ghost

You also havn't engaged until someone started to engage you first, before you would start the battle though Ghost had to attack you first.

you had an good initial start point, though when he replied, you gave him

fine by me you if you want to be a little shit about it...

you ain't town cause if you were and you read your shit you'd know what you did..


walker my ass...

confirm vote: Ghost

This...

which, to me looks like you didn't know how to make a good comeback, town-swords almost always has a good reasoning behind his rebuttals, but instead you gave him this...


Pedit: no, because Thad is town and if he's hiding his the specifics of his role, he's probs has a reason behind doing it. It was the first thing that came to mind RE odd stuff that isn't scum-motivated

[Ms Marangal]

Wait...

Dream-walker...

now I'm even more confused on the thing between you and Ghost, the two of you are walkers and I'm pretty sure all the walkers are town, so what were you trying to say swords?

[Ms Marangal]

I know nothing of the series Swords

[Ms Marangal]

And saying that I'm playing stupid because I assumed that everyone who dream-walks is town is a pretty shitty to say

[Ms Marangal]

I'm not going to fullclaim, so either lynch me or don't. Getting me to L-1 will be pointless.

How the fuck is this thing Scum? like, seriously what will ScumThad gain from being so stubborn RE claiming?

Why would scum have wonder why people aren't voting for them when that person thinks they are scummy?

Why would scum do anything Thad has done the entire game? I really don't get it

For ThAdmiral, I still think he might be scum. I didn't like his soft PR claim. But I didn't expect him to agree with me when I said he might be obnoxious town, hah. Sorry about that.

I think that one of Sword_Of_Omens, Ms Marangal, ThAdmiral, and myself will get lynched today. We need to decide soon, too.

As for Ms Marangal... I really didn't like her reaction to ThAdmiral wagon. And all the self-meta about being smart scum... I once read someone say that if you are scum you should self meta and claim early to avoid being lynched.

I am still unclear about Sword_Of_Omens.

I can actually see an Amrun scum read. He's a good player, I hear, and some of what he has been doing could be interpreted as a good scum player trying to confirm himself and lead the town. SK is also a decent read.

By the way, this is off topic, but I do want to hear why Selkies thinks my playstyle is bad. I'm calling for the use of basic town strategy and logic and also for ignoring pointless namecalling in favor of reads that actually get to someone's alignment.

I'm leaving my vote on ThAdmiral for now. I want to get to L-1 on... anyone vaguely scummy really. We can't make any progress otherwise. I'd also be willing to vote Ms Marangal.

This is just about the only thing that I have seen all game that could indicate that you are, infact town, and there is still some hint of anti-town attitude hidden in here. Everything else you have written were either null or scum leaning, though mostly null.

You have had most of the major pushers of your wagon as scum (I think) at some point, hell your first scum-pick is the person who has been pushing you all game

and you kinda appease your other push

and then, your other scum read is the person who calls you out for role-fishing, as if role-fishing is a pro-town move

Between you, Thad, and Swords I think you're the best option, despite my previous read on Swords Him being a dream-walker makes me think that he's probably town but I still don't get his what his beef with Ghost is

I also cannot see scum pointing out that all dream-walkers might not be town and pointing out the dangers that can be found in dream space

[Ms Marangal]

Then upon what were you basing your supposition that all dreamwalkers are town? There is really no reason to think this.

My role PM or my previous experience maybe?

With the flavor of the PM: it talked about the dangerousness of the place, not the inhabitants and I thought that all the inhabitants would experience the exact same dangers as everyone else, meaning everyone is town

RE, my experience: I tend to think that everyone I am able to talk to privately is of the same alignment as me as I have never had experience of having a private chat with those of opposite alignments as me. I have yet to have experience with Neighbors/neigboriser and I didn't even know/forgot it existed


sword_of_omens-town-lean
I originally had him as null, moved him to scum, then back to town though I think I have been fairly clear to the reasons why he is moving around so much. alot of it is Paranoia I think, I felt like I had to goad him into a 1v1 with me and I was his scum read. He said that he didn't much to go on, though he still didn't say why he didn't ask me questions to try and further his scum read on me. Also, he had a scum-read on Thad but didn't vote him despite him being closer to being lynched, which to me looked like someone who was scared of being called out for opportunism opting to start a wagon, though re-reading his exchange with Ghost I think there might be some merit there. I'm leaning town on him now though, because I can't see swords scum pointing out the plausible scum walking around the dreamworld as scum, it's to high risk and the rewards he would have gotten don't quite match up it.

milkshake-scum-lean
alot of it is my most recent exchange with him. his responses to being pressured and questioned is horrible and I think he fenced when he wasn't being questioned about stuff. He responds to only part of my point against him, ignoring the rest and the point he does point out is him admitting that he OMGUS'd and he is showing that he is aware that OMGUS is more likely to be done by town, than by scum so I'm not inclined to use the fact that he's OMGUS'ing those who think he's scum to clear him.

Selkies (fferyllt + orcinus_theoriginal)-Town
I Think this is fairly obvious, and I'm getting this vibe more from Ffery than I am from Orci I think. I can see ffery's frustration and tad paranoia in her words, and I can see her trying to understand things from other peoples perspective. The vibe I get from her is extremely genuine, and her thoughts are followable I think

ThAdmiral-town
Thad is town, town, town. I really can't see anything he's been doing coming from a scum-mindset. He's been fairly aggressive when he has been here, he's been pushing his top scum read, confusion and Paranoia could be found in his posts when he was talking to Omens and his recent actions RE his claim and refusal to full claim is just way, way to stubborn for scum to be doing it. at this point, scum would be trying to survive and doing what they could to see that survival happen, being stubborn is not someone coming from a survival-oriented mindset would be doing

Ghostlin-scum-lean
This is mostly coming from the points raised by Omens. Looking at the exchange, Omens was accusing Ghost of trying to draw out the dream walkers by soft claiming his role, and looking at the reactions to his hint, he I would say he got more dream-walkers than he said he does. I don't think Omens was the only one who was dragged out from that claim

Demon-scum
I have already explained this, and my reasons for demon scum still stand. He is still my top pick for lynch and I will move back to him if there is a chance of him happening. His response to "his lynch not going through" sounds like cocky scum.

GoodCop_BadCop* (ProHawk + Cabd)-town-lean
The points brought up RE milkshake is good, though I'm thinking he doesn't like my reaction to Thad? still not sure why he doesn't ask me about it


These guys I don't really anything beyond gut for them. I'll take a look at them and try to form an opinion, but not right now because we don't have the time
Belisarius-Null
Nero Cain-town-lean
Iecerint-null
Amrun-town-lean
MattP Null

[Ms Marangal]

MsM- are you saying you have played a Wheel of time game before, then ? Can you link it please?
can you please link it?

???

No I have not

[Ms Marangal]

Demon is still scum, and Two of the compromise wagons are probs PR while the a third is now very likely to be town. I think Milk is the best option at this rate

[Ms Marangal]

I'm nayvelene.

confirmvote: Milk

[Ms Marangal]

I

am willing to vote Ms Marangal, but I am a little worried about doing so, because as she herself points out, most of my initial suspicions have been people who want me lynched.

That said, saying "I want you lynched" and then "Haha! You can't suspect me because you're OMGUSing!" is self-serving to the point of being scummy. Also note that nearly everyone has suspected me at one point or another, so Ms Marangal is not so special in that regard.

The self meta she was providing was preemptive at best.

I think scum is more self conscious

and prone to providing self-meta when not under pressure.

Between the two of us, who has been more self-conscious?

thanks for confirming that you are in fact scum

[Ms Marangal]

Sorry, Nynaeve

[Ms Marangal]

What did I do? React?

Try and paint my actions in a townish light? oh, wait that was you...

What did I do that shows that I'm self-conscious?

as for self-meta, the only thing that could be considered as such was how I interacted with Swords and it was because I expected him to know me better.

Beyond that, self-meta is no where near a scum-tell. Town and scum both have used self-meta, I have seen it, I have done it, It is not a scum-tell. Painting it as one so you could incriminate people is shit

and early claim? yeah because this is one of the instances where I don't really want to get lynched because I will be useful to this game outside the day phase but I also don't want scum to know what exactly it is that I can do.

Pedit: that's to Milk

[Ms Marangal]

Because Nyvene is a Doctor, and I'm not playing Dumb

and I did press you, but then you ended up disappearing.

You think everything I do is Scummy Orci.

Milk:

What did I do? React?

Try and paint my actions in a townish light? oh, wait that was you...

What did I do that shows that I'm self-conscious?

as for self-meta, the only thing that could be considered as such was how I interacted with Swords and it was because I expected him to know me better.

Beyond that, self-meta is no where near a scum-tell. Town and scum both have used self-meta, I have seen it, I have done it, It is not a scum-tell. Painting it as one so you could incriminate people is shit

and early claim? yeah because this is one of the instances where I don't really want to get lynched because I will be useful to this game outside the day phase but I also don't want scum to know what exactly it is that I can do.

Pedit: that's to Milk

[Ms Marangal]

Not going to do a ThAd iso report. I'm done posting walls for now.

- fferyllt

I like your walls. They are smart and townish, and smart, townish people should agree with them.

The Fuck? This is blatant suck up, town have little to no reason to do this. Playful Jabs now and then are fine, but he is actively trying to keep himself from looking bad in your eyes.

and Believe my claim or not, but it's true. He is also the only one of the three contesting wagons who brings up that a No lynch could be a plausibly good Idea, maybe because he starting to realize that he can't really get the other wagons to take off because they all claimed PR to some extent and he can't?

[Ms Marangal]

So your a channeler and nothing but?

I'm finding it hard to believe

and L-3 is where a doc would claim when the game is near deadline and she isn't sure if she would be able to be here for it, and if she was confident enough to guess when scum will try and target her so that she could use her other ability to try and dodge the kill

also, why are Thad and I the only ones who are getting shit for pre-mature claiming when Demon has done the exact same thing?


and Orci, I knew that you were going to bring up that game, like Jesus. yes, I have fake-claimed Vig as scum but how in the world does that mean my claim here is fake? I'm not scum Orci, My claim is legit and I'll do a full one if I have to but god, if you can't see the difference in tone here then IDK what to say.

as for the sucking up, I feel that it's a scum-tell when it's the only thing that the person does. She can like Fery's Iso, I like Fery's Iso it's helpful but if the sole Purpose is to butter someone up and get them onto your good side then they are probably likely scum. It's for that exact same reason WK'ing is a scum-tell, it serves as a way to get the person under good light. Make them look really good.

[Ms Marangal]

Sigh... players like Beli are fucking chores to play with.

I'm going to vig this shit tonight no questions.

Unvote, Vote: Miss Destroyer

until I reread fully and get a better understanding of recent events.

I caught this on a re-read, and I feel retarded that I didn't catch it sooner, but yeah

and JK9? You mean Mala's game where I was in Hydra?

In JK9, I had loads of time to try and get a counter-wagon started should I have been forced to claim. there was a week left when I was originally brought to L-1 IIRC, and even then I didn't handle being a PR the way a PR should

[Ms Marangal]

Part of it is what Swords had to say about the dream world. I'm wary of the actual dangers it may hold

[Ms Marangal]

not Thad

I really don't think ScumThad would be so stubborn RE Claiming, and I definitely think that, as scum, he would stop at just a soft claim. It's high risk, and has very little rewards

also, the Lack of will to survive just Screams town IMO

Do you both still have Demon as town?

and the fact that milk is so willing to jump onto the next biggest wagon is a huge Bother

Ghost could be a decent wagon to try and get up

[Ms Marangal]

EBWODP:

*as scum, he wouldn't stop at just a soft claim

[Ms Marangal]

Survivalism should be a trait of all players, town or scum.

Theoretically, yes though coming from a psychological standpoint, Scum tend to feel a whole lot more survivalistic, especially early on in the game because a D1 scum lynch hurts scum more than a D1 town lynch hurts town. VT's especially don't tend to feel the need to survive, I have even met some who ask to be lynched before lylo because it gives them a better chance to win the game

Why demon or ghost?

Ghostlin-scum-lean
This is mostly coming from the points raised by Omens. Looking at the exchange, Omens was accusing Ghost of trying to draw out the dream walkers by soft claiming his role, and looking at the reactions to his hint, he I would say he got more dream-walkers than he said he does. I don't think Omens was the only one who was dragged out from that claim

Demon-scum
I have already explained this, and my reasons for demon scum still stand. He is still my top pick for lynch and I will move back to him if there is a chance of him happening. His response to "his lynch not going through" sounds like cocky scum.

I don't like how Demon try's to subtly try to get me not voting him. at the time, we had about a week left and as such, there was no need to be on a "Plausible realistic lynch wagon" since, everything is pretty much free-game at this point.

His early push on Matt was shit and his reason for not believing that he was scum was a terrible twist of Burden of efficiency and it was a push on him being more anti-town than scum

His vote on Selkies was terrible and again, it was placed because they were Anti-town and his vote is essentially OMGUS. He's trying to keep his cool under then (Orci?) pressure and looks like he doesn't want to be seen as someone who is over-reacting

People have started to talk about Beli-scum while he was still lightly pursuing other avenues then, he suddenly votes for Beli...

I can't quote where you have been opportunistic because it isn't your posts themselves, on their own they are null but it's more of what has been happening around it, the environment of which you have made your posts. The environment that I have explained when I stated that I believed you to be scum

This is the environment.

the vote was opportunistic because

People were already expressing interest in Beli-scum while he was not. Beli was already obtaining verbal pressure when Demon voted him which is usually a good indication of a wagon picking up.

being the first two voters on a lynching wagon is good for scum because those people usually receive the least amount of pressure. I believe I caught scum a few times for them being early on a lynch wagon.

The fact that most of his votes were either the first or second vote placed, and he moves his vote as soon as a wagon seems to be loosing steam strengthens the fact that Demon is scum.

Could go for a Beli-lynch if there was enough support for that

[Ms Marangal]

Ok I might as well claim now - I am essentially a commuter, and I know that someone tried to target me last night and failed. Was hoping to draw a nightkill but scum maybe thought I was too likely to be lynched at some point and didn't want to waste their shot.

Haven't looked at how the flips affect my reads, so I guess I'll go do that.

This doesn't make sense IMO...

Yes, I am the Doctor but there is no way in hell I would have protected someone who I thought was mafia, all day yesterday I was showing suspicion towards Ghostlin based on Swords 1v1 with him. I didn't make it a secret, so why would you think I'd protect Ghostlin.

as for mafia not targeting me, they could have been trying to get a mis-lynch off me. Based of what happened yesterday, scum could easily leave me alive so that they could try and push another mislynch, which would put us into mylo tomorrow.

I still like that demon lynch, wherever he is anyway.

Beli, swords, how likely do you think it is that Ghost was killed by dream-walking?

[Ms Marangal]

Umm...

no, I did something else but I need swords and Beli to answer my question

[Ms Marangal]

Null, maybe leaning town. Why do you think Amrun is scum Nero?

[Ms Marangal]

Swords CC'd that PR, IIRC and alot of other people apparently have that PR as well. Swords also commented that, that specific PR isn't necessarily town aligned... I think

[Ms Marangal]

yesterday, you that there are forsaken who could enter the dream-world? are any of them female with the capability to kill?

and Amrun, these "commuters" can't "commute" every night, I think I have an idea to why I'm still alive but I don't think I'd survive to live this night. I would like to be able to figure things out while I can today.

[Ms Marangal]

Thad, does your role PM say you can Dream-walk or does it straight up say that you are a commuter?

[Ms Marangal]

yeah, you can say that. I'm going to full claim after Thad answers me because I don't think keeping what I can do hidden will help anyone. I think scum have a pool of who can, and can't dream walk and are somehow using that to their advantage

Pedit: Hmm... kay, That's what I was thinking. I need Thad's answer Pronto

[Ms Marangal]

Beli, what do you think of the Matt kill? if you think that Ghost was the scum-kill who do you think killed matt?

[Ms Marangal]

So you think that scum may have more the one conditional-kill PR? Dream walking is non-consecutive, if the dream-killer walked the first night, they wouldn't be able to walk the second making N2 a safer night to walk and N3 a more dangerous one.

[Ms Marangal]

Code: Select all

True if they are full commuters.

Marangal should fully claim now.

- f

I was getting there, I just needed to get some stuff together first.

I am Nynaeve Town Doctor Channeler Dream walker.

Also Marangal has still not claimed her action after repeated needling about it

this is also wrong, no one has pressured me into full-claiming

I think beli might have been on the right track RE: Ghost being killed in the dreamworld. I walked last night to avoid getting killed should I be targeted, there were three of us in there and apparently we were all girls.

I'm thinking that, based on how people reacted to Swords claim, scum got a few people who they thought could dream-walk and they didn't want to target any of those people so, they went after someone who didn't react to his claim at all who would also be a threat to the game, hence the Matt kill.

I asked if there were any forsaken female because I thought the other sister, who looked like she was trying to gain our trust, could have been scum. the third sister shared her opinions with us in the thread, and it looking back at what Ghost stated end of D1, it's super similar to what he stated.

My guess to why Ghost was killed over me is because of the fact that he made his identity more easily recognized, which to me means that the killer-dreamwalker might have had to make specific guesses to successfully kill


My dream-walk is non-consecutive and I can't walk and protect at the same time, I was thinking that Mafia have the same thing too, but they would have to be in the dreamworld at the same time along with something else.

Beli's one-shot dreaming puts me on pause though.

Amrun's reaction to all of this seems odd, I believe he was one of the people who reacted to Ghost's breadcrumb which was "dream" which I thought made her another dream-walker. though if she was one, she wouldn't be confused about the entire commuting ordeal because she would have the exact same role PM as I did. Also, his response to Swords stating that there are likely more than one commuter and post 871 don't match up

[Ms Marangal]

Where did you get the impression that he was hinting that he was a PR then?

and Ffery, IDK. The name doesn't make sense to me, though it as a fake claim doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it sticks out like a sore thumb. Nothing adds up, though what's really worrying me is the fact that Demon hasn't posted anything today thus far. He was fairly active yesterday and he hasn't been around yet

[Ms Marangal]

Yes because I don't think bolding "a town PR" would be enough for anyone to think that he was soft claiming, not on it's own. I Initially thought that he was emphasizing his point RE Matt. I didn't see it as a claim. though the other words he bolded didn't make sense, there was nothing that needed to be emphasized. I actually thought the "Dream" being bolded was more telling than "a town PR" being bolded but then only a dream-walker would have picked that up, Amrun states that she isn't one.

as for Demon, I have already explained why I thought he was suspicious. His Fake Vig claim was weird, though that might have been a gambit but everything else he was doing, when he voted when he switched votes, all of it was strange and opportunistic looking, which is something I also explained at that point. I don't see why you think Demon is town

[Ms Marangal]

So saying he's a town pr isn't enough to think he's soft claiming?

He didn't say he was a PR, he just bolded the words while addressing Matt. I don't see how bolding those words = a PR claim in the slightest

[Ms Marangal]

I'll get to this tomorrow guys, I don't really have the time to do anything today

[Ms Marangal]

Sorry Thad, I read up until 'wagon analysis' and just stopped. It's bullshit and the whole "1 scum between selkies and demon" conclusion you've managed to arrived to is srsly nothing more than sputtering drivel. 1) you are very very bad/paranoid town (hey why not both). or 2) you're scum and you want to look town by starting some revolutionary wagon on obvtown.

still reading up.

What? there is no way you are Obv town.

all this does is discredits Thad's work

Iece yes, my PM did explain the dangers of the dream-world

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: Demon

I'm unsure of Thad's claim though having a commuter who doesn't experience the dangers of the dream-realm could be plausible.

Thad, I have been going after Demon all game, and the fact that someone else see's his scumminess makes me feel like I'm not crazy. He's been trying to hand-wave away every point raised against him, I don't see how he hasn't been lynched yet.

[Ms Marangal]

Did you seriously claim, under very little pressure when your main argument against me for being scum was the fact that I pre-maturely claimed before deadline at L-3? Why is my claim a scum claim and yours a town one?

and yes, my doctor abilities are weakened. I either protect myself from being targeted, or I protect someone else.

also, Having dream walkers, a commuter, and a Doc seems odd though it's likely that scum have some very powerful abilities as well. maybe a few strong-man abilities or something to compensate for the massive amount of protection roles.

Thad's role seems off, though I like how he was able to see what I kinda saw in Demon to which, demon just brushed off to the side. I really don't see why people have Demon as town at all

[Ms Marangal]

Code: Select all

True if they are full commuters.

Marangal should fully claim now.

- f

I was getting there, I just needed to get some stuff together first.

I am Nynaeve Town Doctor Channeler Dream walker.

Also Marangal has still not claimed her action after repeated needling about it

this is also wrong, no one has pressured me into full-claiming

I think beli might have been on the right track RE: Ghost being killed in the dreamworld. I walked last night to avoid getting killed should I be targeted, there were three of us in there and apparently we were all girls.

I'm thinking that, based on how people reacted to Swords claim, scum got a few people who they thought could dream-walk and they didn't want to target any of those people so, they went after someone who didn't react to his claim at all who would also be a threat to the game, hence the Matt kill.

I asked if there were any forsaken female because I thought the other sister, who looked like she was trying to gain our trust, could have been scum. the third sister shared her opinions with us in the thread, and it looking back at what Ghost stated end of D1, it's super similar to what he stated.

My guess to why Ghost was killed over me is because of the fact that he made his identity more easily recognized, which to me means that the killer-dreamwalker might have had to make specific guesses to successfully kill


My dream-walk is non-consecutive and I can't walk and protect at the same time, I was thinking that Mafia have the same thing too, but they would have to be in the dreamworld at the same time along with something else.

Beli's one-shot dreaming puts me on pause though.

Amrun's reaction to all of this seems odd, I believe he was one of the people who reacted to Ghost's breadcrumb which was "dream" which I thought made her another dream-walker. though if she was one, she wouldn't be confused about the entire commuting ordeal because she would have the exact same role PM as I did. Also, his response to Swords stating that there are likely more than one commuter and post 871 don't match up

[Ms Marangal]

You should really read what I write Amrun, this post is what Iece was talking about RE the other dreamwalker

[Ms Marangal]

and, while I'm here actually pushing my targets of interest, all demon has done is actively lurked, and defended himself from those that attack him or... actually, hand-wave them all off. The only actual attack I can remember him making is his early attack on Matt. Demon's done nothing of use, while I have yet... I'm scummier than him?

[Ms Marangal]

Youre kidding me right swords?

Your going to vote claimed doc over someone who has donw absolute shit?

[Ms Marangal]

Ill get to this shit later but I dont undersrand why demon isnt geting lynched. Yeah thads commuter role might have drawn my suspucion if I didnt already rhink that he pretty much town prior to his xlaim.

[Ms Marangal]

I thought I was more likely to be targeted and I cant protect while im walking.

I also did not reveal myself to the other two.

Amrun, I didnt say anything like that in that post. I havr ben makih it clear rhat i hink demon is scum and I dont know what where youre cominf from re thad. I dwfended him wven before hw claimed. My defense of him had nothing to do with the dact that he haf a role thar could "incriminate" me. Part of yourreason for thinking im scum has to do with "me not doing anything" though demons done nothing but defended himself and hand waved all accusations toward him away

[Ms Marangal]

Demon thinks that the major point of my case had to do with his suspicion on Matt, or rather that's the only part he's focused on

He's circumstantially Opportunistic, and he refuses because "it can't really be found in his post" even though I explained multiple times, it had to do with what others around him had to say

he was only on the defensive

Multiple times, he tried to deflect my attacks and tried to get me to move my vote

has cocky scum attitude in the way he says he isn't going to be lynched

and, along with that he just flies under the radar.

meanwhile, I have asked so many times for cases on why Demon is town yet I have yet to see one

His post also have absolute shit RE scum-hunting

I have restated these reasons for demon scum over and over again :/

[Ms Marangal]

oh, and how he tries to deflect Thad's case is scummy as all fuck

and is similar to what he's been doing to me all game

[Ms Marangal]

I don't want to have to compromise, I want to lynch scum and I seriously doubt that Thad's attitudes make sense from a scum-perspective while Demons does.

and I don't actually see anything wrong with superbly powerful town, it just means that scum is likely to have just as powerful roles

also, RE the Awkward claim, I had soft-claimed my role under next to no pressure in a large game. not even lynch pressure, though I made the claim as a way to keep mafia away from me.

I was one-shot BP cop enabler

of course you would want me gone Goat, without me the cops cant work and get get a guilty result on you and your teammates. You also wouldn't be able to kill me at night so the only real way to get me out of the game is to lynch me. that's not going to happen

this got me under suspicion for a while but, I eventually did catch quite a bit of scum though it got me lynched near end game because of it.

[Ms Marangal]

Vote: Mara

Might as well try to survive

What?

you think I'm town, yet you vote me in hopes that you "survive"?

and then, you only have one shot of your commute ability, which you used so you are now a VT essentially, yet you want to go after the claimed doc who can still protect our claimed Cop and keep her alive for another day so she could try and get another result that could maybe give us a guilty result tomorrow, who with out me would likely die tonight?

[Ms Marangal]

I thought he did claim X-shot, but it's still an awkward as fuck move to pull. I don't want to hammer him yet because I want him to answer me, and I still much rather prefer Demon over him. If I have to last minute hammer to prevent a no-lynch I'll do it, but I don't want to have to do it.

[Ms Marangal]

I love that game, The Sugar Cain hydra was a fun one.

also, I protected Amrun last night so I think Scum have a Strong-man or something to bypass my protection.

Pedit: Nero...

[Ms Marangal]

...

we are in mylo guys, if I get lynched we lose the game

I'm pretty sure that Nero and Beli both are town, though I'm less certain of my read on Selkies now though if my read on them is wrong then it's likely that my read on Demon could be wrong.

It also means that scum could quick hammer right now if they wanted to and pull through with the win.

also, Orci saying that no one has pushed for my lynch yet is a complete lie. I was pushed yesterday, and alot of people agreed that I should be pushed, who's to say that none of them were mafia?

also, looking at what he stated yesterday, it looks like he was setting me up to be lynched today so that his team could win. He wanted to leave me alone and sort me out later, doesn't push me despite thinking that I was likely scum regardless of my claim D1. My vote is likely to go there, but I don't want scum to quick-lynch if I am wrong about them.

also half of the the players today havn't even posted, and the day just started so we don't even know if the mafia team are even on and the fact that he's using this logic at this point is strange.

also, Beli alot of us believed that Thad's role didn't fit, Thad being a commuter outside of the dream-walkers didn't fit well with the dream-walkers, but it was there. You can't call me scum due to the fact that my role doesn't mesh with Thads because his didn't mesh with roles alot of other people had, yet he had it and he was town.

the fact that mafia possibly have a strong-man, and maybe other ways to bypass a protection role makes my role that much more likely to exist in this set-up.

[Ms Marangal]

Because I don't remember people, aside from Amrun and Demon, that actually pushed my lynch really, really Hard. Swords advocated for my lynch I think, and so did Thad and I'm pretty sure more people were pushing for me to get lynched

yeah, I remember hard-boiled and I remember you not trying to back down from the 1v1 either.

Scenario here is different than the Scenario there.

the 1/2 of the player base didn't post yet was an exaggeration, but my point is there.

I had a nullish read on beli for the majority of the game, and the fact that I have stronger scum reads make him possible town

Funny how you comment on how I got my town-read on Beli and not Nero when I had treated them both the same the entire game

[Ms Marangal]

Also, haha! I told orcinus the a'Dam meant we probably have an inventor when we got the PM at the start of Day 2.

???

I thought you didn't know about the flavor?

also, what are the odds that scum are already on Demon's wagon?

because, if they are off, why are they waiting to quicklynch demon if he's town?

[Ms Marangal]

... I still don't get how a'Dam means inventor

[Ms Marangal]

I know how the inventor role works, but I still don't see it's connection with a'Dam

[Ms Marangal]

Wat?

you were town-reading me because of my awkward claim...

I don't think I buy two protective roles existing in a Mini Nero, it doesn't make sense at all to me. Why would the mod put a body-guard and a Doc in the same game?

Why havn't you commented on Demon?

[Ms Marangal]

Wat?

you were town-reading me because of my awkward claim...

I don't think I buy two protective roles existing in a Mini Nero, it doesn't make sense at all to me. Why would the mod put a body-guard and a Doc in the same game?

Why havn't you commented on Demon?

So you are claimed scum. awesome.

no, you were town-reading me due to my awkward claim, despite it being similar to yours. I find that odd

I just got out of a mini (or maybe it was a micro? It was 9 players) with two town cops. I don't think playing outguessing the mod is a good idea.

Ok, this could explain why you didn't counter claim

Your awkward claim did play a part in my town read of you but I also know that you try and emulate your town play as scum (or so I read once)

but knowing this you still didn't push me for scum?

If you honestly think that I, as scum, would fake claim a 2nd protective role when I knew the whole "2 protective roles in a mini?!?" discussion would arise then you are a

moron

scum.

Possibly, to create more confusion in this mylo stage and to maybe get more heat going behind my own wagon.

Demon could be scum I guess but for some reason he's not high on my lynch list. But today we're either lynching you or Selk. That's what needs to happen today.

Demons been sitting at L-2 for a very, very long time. If he's town, why hasn't he been quick-lynched Nero? you didn't answer that question earlier.

[Ms Marangal]

My N1 action was to dreamwalk and before i stopped caring about the game I thought scum sent someone to dreamwalk that night to keep track of who has/doesn't have dreamwalk anymore. I mean it was pretty damn easy to figure out who was with me in that place. Mara contributed jackshit and seemed pretty content to flat out stop talking and let the power go to waste so that's knid of convenient.

So you did walk that night... why didn't you just kill me?

[Ms Marangal]

and...

not only did you walk, but you didn't comment on my story on how I thought Ghost was killed, why?

also, yeah. I refused to say anything because I was mainly there for protection from the Night kill and there was no way to tell if I could trust either of you.

[Ms Marangal]

So uh. Waiting for
~Demon to explain his choices about not talking about dreamwalking
~Swords to be caught up and post

That said, Demon is still scum that needs to eat rope today.

[Ms Marangal]

no
I figured you were prob town.

what?

he wasn't talking to you, why would you answer his question about the Dream-walking?

also, swords yes. I can still read the QT, I still have access to it though I don't think I'm allowed to say anything specific about it

[Ms Marangal]

What?

did you, or did you not just answer the question Swords was asking me?

[Ms Marangal]

oh...

Wait wat?

You

don't

die if you successfully block a kill?

Seriously?

a body-guard who doesn't die when he successfully blocks a kill? That's a bull-shit claim Nero, and not something a body-guard does. That's essentially a Doctor claim.

VOTE: Nero

[Ms Marangal]

I'll read up after Marathons are over!!

We do have time for that right?

[Ms Marangal]

also, swords yes. I can still read the QT, I still have access to it though I don't think I'm allowed to say anything specific about it

You can talk about it, you just can't quote from it....
What type of questions did demon ask you guys…and what did he tell you about himself?

So 2 full-fledged doctors, huh?

Demon asked if we were town and asked why we were there that night and He didn't give us any information about himself.

[Ms Marangal]

And Nero, I wasn't lying about thinking that you were answering a question posed for me, I actually did believe that you answered the question Swords asked me because I didn't see the one he posed towards you

then I read back, and saw the question and it rings alarms.

You don't die when you protect someone, but you're a body-guard?

and then, you weren't surprised that there were several "commuters" in this game, along with a different type of commuter AND THEN you weren't surprised about a second doctor being in this game?

none of this adds up Nero

[Ms Marangal]

I asked if there were any forsaken female because I thought the other sister, who looked like she was trying to gain our trust, could have been scum. the third sister shared her opinions with us in the thread, and it looking back at what Ghost stated end of D1, it's super similar to what he stated.

[Ms Marangal]

Everyone in the dream world was female as our anonymous names all had the word sister in it.

Red sister, Yellow sister, and Blue (me) sister

[Ms Marangal]

Mara,

why would you ask this question specifically?

yesterday, you that there are forsaken who could enter the dream-world? are any of them female with the capability to kill?

Considering Ghost is dead, and Demon's character is male...

Which means, he's lying about who his character is

[Ms Marangal]

Aes Sedai?

[Ms Marangal]

I'm also pretty sure that I mentioned sisters right when I explained my dream-walking Yesterday, so how is me talking about sisters now me chewing up time? everyone in the QT were all female

[Ms Marangal]

I don't have a fucking clue to what you're on about

I don't know anything about Aes Sedai, all I know is that we were given colors to mask our identities, and we were all called sisters. I was trying to help figure out where the second kill came from the first night, and I was telling you guys what I know about what happened that first night.

I've done my part to help town get this win, I havn't hidden anything from town, and it's freaking obvious that scum are trying to push my wagon to save EMP from getting lynched, you guys are all trying to get that perfect win but it isn't going to happen


Nero/Beli/EMP scum team 2013

VOTE: Demon

[Ms Marangal]

http://quicktopic.com/50/H/vAWPR5qLPFS

Beat you to it~~

[Ms Marangal]

I wasn't lying about the colored sister things in the Tel'Aran'rhiod thing BTW