NY 167: COMPLETELY NORMAL Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Cephrir]

Hi. I'm gonna stop being Jekyll now. It's not working and it's not worth the effort. /egopost

[Cephrir]

I've stalked everyone all the time always

ftfy

[Cephrir]

Oh boy, I finally got one townread I am reasonably confident in! I was actually thinking about drawing up a reads list before post 842 happened with likeabauss on top of it, mostly due to my overall lack of conviction this game, but damn that moonlogic (there's a better word for this I know) is so town. And this is not the same as towndrugs, because his reasons are not ludicrous. town, town, town, town, town.

[Cephrir]

(by "with likeabauss on top of it" I mean as my towniest read)

(I might still do this but I'm pretty sure everyone but likeabauss would be in one 'leaning' section or the other at this point)

[Cephrir]

I suppose it's as good a game as any for me to try to move away from reads lists. As I've said in other places, I find them to be juvenile, even though they're useful.

[Cephrir]

I made a reads list in a private QT. So I get all the benefit of organizing my thoughts, but I don't get to share them all either! Sadface.

[Cephrir]

I'll share the parts of my leaning-scum section that I don't have a reason to withhold. I assure you, what remains is not awe-inspiring.

LEANING SCUM
Guyett- a little scummy, but didn't deserve all those votes
[REDACTED]
caledfwitch- lurker extraordinaire
JacobSavage- [NOTE REDACTED]
[REDACTED]

[Cephrir]

So let's go with your logic:

1-Replacing out day one is a scumtell.
2-Rank enjoys day ones.
3-Rank replaced out day one.
4-Rank's slot is scum.

So since the actual data totally disproves (1) why should 2-4 still be valid? Do you have some evidence of this you can cite?

Cabd go sit down at the corner and have yourself a timeout.
Because this post reeks.

#1 is not the first logical step of LTB calling rank's replace out and you know it.

-L. J.

This.

Do I fucking look like mara to you?

Is Mara not a head in that Hydra? Cabd and Mara? Correct me if I'm wrong. My apologies if I am.

You reframed the logic instead of answering my questions. If I'm the most knowledgeable guy in the room about Rank, why was your first reaction to discredit? If you were town, why wouldn't you push on Orcinus instead of discredit my argument? Do you have such a strong town read on that slot that you instantly thought "No way, Bauss is scum and/or retarded." I mean, its D1 and us townies need to find scum. All you did in this instance is discredit a potentially valuable read (or piece of info about player/slot) instead of exploring it.

Okay, I've been liking your attitude for town, but "if you were town you would agree with me" is a bit too far.

Mr. Bauss, you haven't really given an initial reason for scumreading AFB IIRC. You just started from that assumption and are now painting them as scum. Orci was never in trouble here though, so I find your last statement to be an exaggeration.

Considering that my experiment seems to have failed, I'm considering dropping the act and changing accounts.

Remember why I started bussing you in NY165, because you were doing this as scum to EddieFenix?

Does this read the same way as your push onto Eddie, because it is for me.

Hm. A little bit.

Oh boy, I finally got one townread I am reasonably confident in! I was actually thinking about drawing up a reads list before post 842 happened with likeabauss on top of it, mostly due to my overall lack of conviction this game, but damn that moonlogic (there's a better word for this I know) is so town. And this is not the same as towndrugs, because his reasons are not ludicrous. town, town, town, town, town.

I want to talk about this :/

Still like Guyett for scum. Also don’t like RC trying to lurk out the pressure. JS is my third scumspect right now, but that’s a fair bit weaker. Want to flesh out with Ceph why he’s townreading Bauss because I’m seeing parallels between what he’s doing here and what Ceph did in NY165.

I liked that he had a convoluted argument that, while less than stellar, had an internal logic to it. He has an over-the-top assurance that reminds me of Scumrir (only moreso), and when most players sound like Scumrir I find they're usually town. I really like abrasiveness, and he's preaching a level of certainty here that I don't see coming from scum (with possible exceptions for really prolific players, but I've never heard of him). And I'm also a fan of crazy-ass logic when it isn't completely stupid (like, he is saying things about words you actually wrote and I can imagine someone thinking as he does).

Here they come, fresh from a scum conference in their QT! Lol. Predictable.

The worst part of this is I know its near impossible to rally the votes needed to lynch either of them.

FratBros, you ignored or didn't respond to several other things I pointed out about your shitty transparent scum game. Momentum push onto Guyett? Setting up to lynch less active players? You're still not getting the psychobabble stuff, which I'm used to. You're scum. Let's do this... I can't lynch you today. You've got like 1 vote and its me. Your overactive defense can take a rest. You're safe. Focus your energy someplace else so I can sort the rest of the player base from your actions. Thanks.

Mara, you cut me deep! I asked for your vote on FratBoys awhile back. You never gave it. That was clue 1 that you're bad. We've cleaned house together previously, and when you asked me for my vote or some time in other games, I gave it. (Because I know you're a baller.) You know I'm good, and you know I know Rank, and still no love. No support. You're scum.

Orcinus, sorry man. Like I said, its a bs read and I feel bad for it. But you replaced into a scum slot.

Bold is a little too much, particularly given that one of them was clearly not here. Meh.

People I want to failmeta (because I suck at meta):
Sakura
orci if he keeps playing like this

Wait hang on it didn't click that you were cephrir when I first read this post

You have meta with me...

I do, and up to this point you didn't sound like townyou, but I didn't know what scumyou looks like.

I'm still townlean on AFB but it's weakened, i'd jump on orc tho, just to see where that goes.

VOTE: sakura

this slot is shit.

This is more like it, though.

VOTE: orc

You realize Sakura's vote is basically OMGUS right? So are you piling on bauss' reasoning, or what?

Also, my history with Rank goes outside of and beyond mafia on this board. So just doing a meta dive here doesn't yield an awful lot in the grand scheme of things. I don't get that people here will generally accept Mara or Nachos read on TIP without question, but I throw down on Rank and its a great big production.

holy shit this annoys me

why the fuck are you not linking to a game

lol@sakura

we're lynching this today

LEANING SCUM
Guyett- a little scummy, but didn't deserve all those votes
[redacted, feeling a little better about this though]
caledfwitch- lurker extraordinaire
JacobSavage- [note redacted]

orcinus_theoriginal- should be hilariously obvtown; isn't.

You're not out of the woods yet, but this is what I've been waiting to see. You were my top suspect for not doing it, though I didn't want this to be public until it happened.

why the fuck are you not linking to a game

wait let me answer myself

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE

i produced a game ONSITE where rank was scum and he most CERTAINLY DID NOT LURK D1

the only thing you've put up this game in terms of concreteness is that rank had a good d1 as town

well gee fucking gee

i used the word "postulate" in some other game and I was town

I haven't yet--that means I'm scum, right

and what would that tell you

We won't find that out now since you screwed it up, tho unlike Toomai, the way you did it was pretty scummy, you just kept standing around there and found the first chance to jump on a townie, the momment i mention an intent to vote you "BAM!" you vote me :>

HAha

HAhahahaHAHAaha

no

the moment you do something ass-scummy like that BAM I vote your ass off this game

buhbye

Again, I say unto ye: I feel way better about this slot than I did before.

Ehh I missed it:

Either your reasoning is missing at the "*" that I marked in the quote, or you're scumreading us because you don't know our identity.
Which one is it, Sakura?

Actually the reason I'm scum-reading you isn't because i didnt know your identity, im just treating you as a single entity. And as a single entity i got a scum lean on you, because even tho I do actually know one of your heads, i'll just take you as a single entity and a player i've never played with since you decide to go with an anonymous hydra, so that's the treatment you'll get.

Well I guess partly of not knowing all members of your hydra is part of it, considering that's what is causing me to read you as a single entity called Player MVP that i've never played with before.

Not one thing you say in this post is a reason for suspecting someone except "I have a scum lean on you"...???

[Cephrir]

Oh boy, I finally got one townread I am reasonably confident in! I was actually thinking about drawing up a reads list before post 842 happened with likeabauss on top of it, mostly due to my overall lack of conviction this game, but damn that moonlogic (there's a better word for this I know) is so town. And this is not the same as towndrugs, because his reasons are not ludicrous. town, town, town, town, town.

It took you this long?

Yes

Well, I have one other that's reasonably close to this strong, but I wasn't really cognizant of this until I made a list.

[Cephrir]

So let's go with your logic:

1-Replacing out day one is a scumtell.
2-Rank enjoys day ones.
3-Rank replaced out day one.
4-Rank's slot is scum.

So since the actual data totally disproves (1) why should 2-4 still be valid? Do you have some evidence of this you can cite?

Cabd go sit down at the corner and have yourself a timeout.
Because this post reeks.

#1 is not the first logical step of LTB calling rank's replace out and you know it.

-L. J.

This.

No, not this.

Specifically the part about that not being the first step in his logic, not the part about mcm being scum.

[Cephrir]

True, he does, but there's a missing premise, or at least one that I'm reading into bauss' posts but he might not have actually said, which is that Rank replacing out D1 *from a game that has likeabauss in it* is a scumtell.

You are right that he never actually said that, now that I look at it.

[Cephrir]

Okay, a couple things. Orcinus, I'm basically ignoring you because I'm not going to beat a dead horse. You keep asking for an example like it'll prove my read in either direction.

Let's say I link you a game where Rank replaced out D1 as scum. Will you openly admit that you are scum? Think that through... Okay, so should I give a shit what you ask for? Seriously. I know you're scum. I don't negotiate with terrorists. Let's not spam the thread with anymore of this.

Let's say I tell you that in my history with Rank, he's never once EVER replaced out on D1 as scum. Ever. You'll just say "SEE CAN"T PROVE IT. I'M AL CAPONE BITCH. YOU KNOW I'M SCUM BUT CAN'T PROVE IT. GET BENT"

The end result is the same. You can't admit I'm right, regardless of what I say/do. Let's move on.

Sakura -

Orcinus is doing the Al Capone thing. He's pushing momentum moves.

He's avoided taking a stance on FratBros and MC Maraca

. He jumped onto the Guyett thing. Actually, his only pushes that stick out to me have been on Guyett and Sakura. He's not really scum hunting, he's just screaming/trying not to get hung and

discredit me/you/anybody that is open to exploring avenues of thought

. I see lots of misrepping, saw some

buddying

. Specific to his exchange with you, misreps and

flailing

. He's desperate to secure a lynch target. His constant posting is Anti-Town in that it's keeping the less active players from being able to keep up with the game content and contribute meaningfully. It's obfuscation (like right after I posted my case on FratBros, back him comes with multiple posts.) Also note, no comment on my FratBros case from him. I think I remember him saying he thinks I'm town, but he's actively discrediting me. lol.

This:

would you be against providing a readslist

Look at how cautiously he asks for a readslist. I've said several times this game "Townies, please keep your town read to yourselves. Mafia will use them against you."

lol. Quick sidebar... Sakura... who was it that asked you for your reads list earlier?

Thanks

Since you're here, updated reads from the past few pages?

See a pattern? Okay, back to Orcinus:

When he came into the game and I said "Hi scum." he said "Sup." There's some other psychobabble I see that I won't bore everybody with, but it sort of segues into this:

There's a sociology going on with this scum team... they are all (or a majority are) experienced players (I called them cool kids earlier.) I hinted at this a couple times earlier. The team got picked, QT opened up, and I bet somebody said something or most of the people thought to themselves "Shit, our team is stacked with power players. We're going to win this shit." I'm inferring this because they're doing things that I consider rash and/or brazen for D1 in mafia.

Openly defending each other, even when there is no REAL heat. Openly steering conversation. They're empowered by their collective skills as mafia and think they can just strong arm the flow of the game. My 3 targets aren't even considering getting on a bus of one of the others (FratBoys, Orc, MC Maraca.) Either of them could've tossed a vote and some heat on after I started... THEY AREN"T EVEN CLOSE TO GETTING HUNG. Instead, they defended. It's classic groupthink.

I hope that answers your question Sakura. I'm actively avoiding spending analysis time/posting/etc on Orcinus because he's already sorted in my mind.

Although I bet one of your suspects is probably right, this post is full of confirmation bias and things that are not really happening. I have underlined a number of examples of this.

Also, I almost want you to produce the italicized now because it's beginning to sound like this is baseless. And your failure to agree with my assumption tells me it was not a good assumption.

I still think you're town but you really need to ease off on the death tunnel.

[Cephrir]

Also, you think way too strongly that everything everyone does is a reaction to do, such as that orcinus "cautionusly asking for a reads list" is a direct response to your assertion that we should be careful with them this game. Even if he's scum he probably isn't that worried about one line that one person said. You are not the end all be all god of scumhunting.

[Cephrir]

Sak you should get on the frat bros wagon.
When he flips scum I want Sangres strung up

+1 town point

[Cephrir]

Hermy could be town.

Ambivalent about Toomai. PV needs to fucking post. RC needs to fucking play mafia, I would consider policy running him up to make him start playing.

I think caled and JS could be scum, I like ffery's case and caled's excuses are stupid.

[Cephrir]

Wow what a stellar display of towniness, I am overawed by the catchup post.

Oh wait no, I'm not.

[goodmorning]

I liked that he had a convoluted argument that, while less than stellar, had an internal logic to it. He has an over-the-top assurance that reminds me of Scumrir (only moreso), and when most players sound like Scumrir I find they're usually town. I really like abrasiveness, and he's preaching a level of certainty here that I don't see coming from scum (with possible exceptions for really prolific players, but I've never heard of him). And I'm also a fan of crazy-ass logic when it isn't completely stupid (like, he is saying things about words you actually wrote and I can imagine someone thinking as he does).

Pertaining to your first point: the reason I’m scumreading him right now is that his play reminds me of how you dealt with BulbaFenix on D2 in NY165. He’s twisting every word I say to try to build a case about me being scum: when I said that I was townreading all the active players except RC, he twisted it into me saying that activity is a towntell. When I defended Orc against the same shitty logic he used against me about replacements, he came in and said it was me defending a scumbuddy, instead of, I don’t know, a townie defending someone from the same shit logic he used against that townie.

For some reason I got confused when you said EddieFenix instead of BulbaFenix. Yeah, okay, this makes sense. In my defense I honestly thought Bulba was the SK >.>

Even though there is logic to it I'm still not going to lynch likeabauss anytime soon, though.

the wake slot is scum

i dunno why you're scum though, ask my brain maybe

There’s no way this is town

. Building a shit case based on strawmans and shitty numbers that one fails to substantiate is one thing, but agreeing with that case is worse.

I don't agree! D:

Also, I changed my mind, read list incoming.

FTFY.

[Cephrir]

TOWN

yessiree

- massive and unnecessary abrasiveness reminds me of Scumrir, which in anyone else is a towntell

LEANING TOWN

orcinus_theoriginal

- meta! (as explained already, this was redacted #2)

MVP

- really posty, contributing without really bothering me (since page 5 anyway)

likeabauss

- y'all have argued him down from the top for me. I was seeing the hypercertainty as townie initially, but now I'm thinking it almost lacks that modicum of townie paranoia that comes from not actually knowing everyone's alignment. I suppose the moonlogic isn't as telling as I felt originally given that it does kinda suck. Also, this is just occurring to me, but you accused someone of trying to drive discussion, yeah? Then what have you been doing?

Hermy

- beautiful, fragile flower

AFB

- their play is really town, but I can't trust them completely because I know how good they are as scum. Also, I disliked their trajectory on me.

NULL

Sakura Hana

- hated her at first, genuine pages 30-35, not sure what to make of recent stuff.

Toomai

- Both my town phones and my scum phones are firmly on their hooks and not ringing.

sangres

- not obvtown yet, and tbh still won't be even if they're right about JacobSavage

PeregrineV

- you're in this game?

Guyett

- I don't actually feel like he's been lurking recently, I've been seeing posts from him and liking them

LEANING SCUM

RadiantCowbells

- duh

MC Maraca

- They just aren't inspiring me with confidence! I don't know what I expect out of townCabd put he's being too self-deprecating for my taste. It doesn't seem like him. At the same time, I've been rethinking this, because I don't know if I can picture Mara doing EXACTLY what she did in VS with the hydra diss on me (this was redacted #1)

caledfwitch

- duh

JacobSavage

- duh

SIR NOT APPEARING IN THIS LIST

TIP

- Dunno!

[Cephrir]

JacobSavage, AngryFratBoys is conveniently on your wagon (which has run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit) just like he was on the Guyett wagon (similarly run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit.) Doesn't that make you wonder? You are clearly not the best lynch right now for a town player, IMO. Why wouldn't he want to lynch between me and Orcinus to clear the air? Why is he just following the easy wagons? There is no town aligned logic that explains this behavior, because he is scum.

This just in, anyone who doesn't want to lynch between likeabauss and orcinus is scum

[Cephrir]

Because that's kinda what it looked like and you had to remove an image and three words and a quote that clearly demonstrated I was being sarcastic >.<

[Cephrir]

JacobSavage, AngryFratBoys is conveniently on your wagon (which has run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit) just like he was on the Guyett wagon (similarly run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit.) Doesn't that make you wonder? You are clearly not the best lynch right now for a town player, IMO. Why wouldn't he want to lynch between me and Orcinus to clear the air? Why is he just following the easy wagons? There is no town aligned logic that explains this behavior, because he is scum.

This just in, anyone who doesn't want to lynch between likeabauss and orcinus is scum

Ceph, you're scaring me with how cogent you're being :/

I'm not sure whether to be complimented, sad, or feel-like-you're-setting-up-to-mislynch-me-later.

Time will tell!

P-edit: I dunno, I feel like no one could do that on purpose and expect no one to notice

[Cephrir]

Yeah, I just think it's a legitimate dumbtell.

I might be willing to lynch Sakura someday, but today is not that day.

[Cephrir]

Sup.

Vote: orcinus the_original

Dear Nacho,

Why?

Sincerely,
Ceph

[Cephrir]

oh wait

hrm

this is troubling

[Cephrir]

Dear Cephrir,

I never left. The guy you replaced, Rank, is my brother from another mother. We've been playing mafia together for like 10 years. Him replacing out means he was scum. Means you are scum. You should tread carefully, because between you and FratBoys, I've got two mafia and its still early on D1

Look. I'm not lynching orcinus on this shaky a basis. I thought there might be something to that but it's not sufficient. If TIP wants to stop pussyfooting around and come out and claim daycop, he can come out and fucking claim daycop. It's not like there was anything subtle going on there and I refuse to believe anyone can have possibly not noticed it.

In conclusion, no.

Love,
Ceph

[Cephrir]

It could just be a Hermy tell, but I find the vulnerability pretty genuine.

[Cephrir]

If you could all kindly calm the fuck down

That'd be great

[Cephrir]

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.37

orcinus_theoriginal [L-5] - Sakura Hana, sangres, TheIrishPope, RadiantCowbells

Angry Frat BROs [L-5] - likeabauss, Toomai, Guyett, Hermy

JacobSavage [L-7] - MC Maraca, Cephrir

Guyett [L-8] - PeregrineV

Sakura Hana [L-8] - orcinus_theoriginal

MC Maraca [L-8] - yessiree

yessiree [L-8] - Angry Frat BROs

Not Voting [3] - JacobSavage, caledfwitch, MVP

With 17 alive, it takes

9

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2013-11-20 09:39:00)

I am not pleased by these wagons

Not one bit

[Cephrir]

Y'know what likeabauss? Fine. You'll get what you want. If Orci flips scum then... well done. If he flips town then you get lynched. Alright?

VOTE: Orci

I'm breaking a personal rule by using this emoticon.

[Cephrir]

Do I need to get proactive here? I am starting to think I need to get proactive here. This day is going to hell in a handbasket.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Angry Frat Br0s

I think Orcinus is town and I follow his reasoning.

This guy is way too defensive in his own right, so my vote goes here.

You do not get to just start posting. You are going to explain what in the sweet, everloving fuck you have been doing for three quarters of this game.

[Cephrir]

Y'know what likeabauss? Fine. You'll get what you want. If Orci flips scum then... well done. If he flips town then you get lynched. Alright?

VOTE: Orci

This makes me physically ill.

VOTE: Angry Frat Br0s

I think Orcinus is town and I follow his reasoning.

This guy is way too defensive in his own right, so my vote goes here.

You do not get to just start posting. You are going to explain what in the sweet, everloving fuck you have been doing for three quarters of this game.

HEY RC

HEY

LISTEN

TALK WORDS NOW

THANKS

[Cephrir]

I may have to entirely lift my ban on the neutral face for this game

[Cephrir]

Summary of JacobSavage's iso:

__________________________

[Cephrir]

Honestly though I'd be willing to vote Guyett at this point just as a counter to these terribad wagons

[Cephrir]

His read list seems to indicate this.

Not sure why he's not voting it.

[Cephrir]

Hey Cabd, you know what's making me a little nervout?

That I haven't been around? Sorry to disappoint you, my love, but lynx came over and she's a tad more real than mafiascum.net is.

p-edit: you impatient lout, if you want answers here I am.

That's not it. That's not even close.

Let's deal with them one by one. y u no reaction test?

You try making a day's work of reaction testing in this noise. Not to mention, it's day one in a normal game. I can't go claiming something amazing when we're restricted to normal roles. Fakehammers require a L-1 wagon that I'm on it near the start. Most other gambits don't work util several days in. I'm sure I'll manage something for you soon enough, so you'll just have to wait and see (and probably play along when you see it).

I don't like this. Mentioning specific tests/gambits up front like this looks like it would take them out of your toolkit.

Took the words out of my mouth. More coherent response to the above posts in a bit.

[Cephrir]

V/LA done.

I'll vote for whichever of o_to or AFB is necessary to lynch, since I believe fairly solidy at this point that likeabauss is town. If either target happens to be town we can just lynch him Day 2 since I see no way there's a bus here.

...Lol. You lining up lynches?

Quite possibly. This guy's been plummeting (Chrome says that has one T apparently? o.o) down my scumlist since the initial one I made privately on page 34.

Do I need to get proactive here? I am starting to think I need to get proactive here. This day is going to hell in a handbasket.

You do. I'll make you a map:
Start----->Realize your scumread on maracabd is wrong------->lynch Jacob-scum----->party

It's only a tentative scumread, but I'm gonna skip step 2, for now at least.

Summary of JacobSavage's iso:

__________________________

Dammit ceph you owe me a new can of soda and possibly a new set of monitor wipes.

General PSA only tangentially related to discussions that are currently occurring: Genuine emotion is not necessarily a free town pass even if you're right. Said the guy who just used this logic to argue Hermy is town, but still.

[Cephrir]

I don't like this. Mentioning specific tests/gambits up front like this looks like it would take them out of your toolkit.

I don't usually use the same gambit twice. Especially in a field of players that are familiar with me and my play. Even more so when the ones I'd be testing are those players. You'll have to wait and see.

Except for when you fakehammer multiple times in one game? Then again, you were scum.

[Cephrir]

For someone who prides themselves on meta you are seriously off.


Also since when was I lurking in NY165 I thought I was posting more frequently that usual...

Please elaborate on this apparently lovely meta you have. You are allowed to self-meta because I am demanding it.

Sorry to hear that Yessiree.

TIP and Sangres, will you support a FratBros lynch with me? Take into consideration the strength of my read on Rank's slot and that I'm still pushing a FratBros lynch.

Have you considered doing something other than mindlessly rounding up votes?

No way, Orcinus is not happening.

You do realize Cabd just asked you a question, which was an extension of my previous question, which you didn't really answer?

[Cephrir]

I don't like this. Mentioning specific tests/gambits up front like this looks like it would take them out of your toolkit.

I don't usually use the same gambit twice. Especially in a field of players that are familiar with me and my play. Even more so when the ones I'd be testing are those players. You'll have to wait and see.

Except for when you fakehammer multiple times in one game? Then again, you were scum.

Thirdkoopa and...??? I only recall fakehammering once. Am I forgetting one? I remember the fakehammer+"oh hey shadi bulba is vengeful and shot you" as my major gambits of that game, the "roleblocker who lets cop and vig use their roles" thing aside.

Maybe I misremembered. There were certainly several fakehammers, and I just attributed them all to you, I guess.

[Cephrir]

I don't like this. Mentioning specific tests/gambits up front like this looks like it would take them out of your toolkit.

I don't usually use the same gambit twice. Especially in a field of players that are familiar with me and my play. Even more so when the ones I'd be testing are those players. You'll have to wait and see.

Except for when you fakehammer multiple times in one game? Then again, you were scum.

Thirdkoopa and...??? I only recall fakehammering once. Am I forgetting one? I remember the fakehammer+"oh hey shadi bulba is vengeful and shot you" as my major gambits of that game, the "roleblocker who lets cop and vig use their roles" thing aside.

Maybe I misremembered. There were certainly several fakehammers, and I just attributed them all to you, I guess.

[Cephrir]

What more can orcinus do if bauss won't produce the evidence? Flip the fuck out? He started to a little but we should hardly DEMAND that people ATE when shitty unsubstantiated cases are thrown at them.

You pretty much ignored the threeish posts of ATE, too, I'd expect at least a comment there if you didn't like them.

[Cephrir]

So, therefore, you expect the target in question to be town...?

[Cephrir]

I can't help feeling both these wagons are scum driven. Particularly AFB, if I were scum and they weren't I'd be scared to death of them. Why don't the wagon voters have anything to say about whoeveritwas' meta regarding Bro? If you don't agree, tell me why.

Probably moving my vote soon but only because it's not doing any good right now.

[Cephrir]

Maybe I'll leave it, I guess we have three now. I may present a case and then not vote it?

By the way, caled hasn't posted in this game in 5.5 days...

[Cephrir]

Must...resist...urge to answer things that aren't directed at me...

[Cephrir]

When someone references psychological stuff... they're probably scum.
So yeah orcinus vote is best vote.

Spoiler:

2) Guilty Conscience (psychobabble) Talked about it previously.

AKA BULLSHIT THAT YOU'RE SPEWING TO MAKE ME LOOK WORSE

This isn't really an appropriate response. You can't just say "BS" to refute an argument. Here's a primer on how word choices provide insights into the brain:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/let ... they-speak
There are much more in depth applications. It can be very effective, until the subject (you in this case) is aware that reading of that nature is going on. (This is a big part of why I keep my cases to myself, and don't always explain my reads in great detail. These are some cool tools that I use frequently in mafia, but the more I talk about them the less effective they become with people who are aware.)

...???

[Cephrir]

1) if you're town (which we know you aren't) you'd be suspicious of two meat heads randomly defending you. Seems like good/reasonable play to me.

As a townie who is only not arguing with your cases because people usually yell at him when he answers questions not directed at him, this logic is stupid.

I may just start answering things that aren't directed at me though because I'm rapidly getting sick of feeling like I'm sitting here helpless to stop these stupid wagons.

[Cephrir]

rank's meta doesn't support your claim which is why you've refused to provide it despite it being the obviously townie thing to do

so that's why you're slinging mud on me and asking me to be lynched second because when i flip town you have no excuse anymore

i've fooled myself for long enough

VOTE: bauss

Seriously bauss,

why the fuck will you not provide examples of this meta you're touting if it exists?

There is no protown reason to withhold this.

[Cephrir]

Does he really strike you as the lazy type, given the effort he's put into his cases... and his willingness to link to other things...?

[Cephrir]

orc you only have like 4 votes

come on now

[Cephrir]

Hi, I'm not voting either of said wagons and am in fact voting a lurker. You should help me!

[Cephrir]

I've also spent the last five pages doing nothing but complaining about said wagons.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: RC

I don't honestly believe this is scum, but it's both more likely to be scum than AFB or orcinus and a better lynch than either.

[Cephrir]

I have never seen you like this in a game. :/

This is, however, kinda fair.

[Cephrir]

I feel like there's a chance the town reaction to likeabauss should be more "fuck you" and less "this makes me sad".

But if orcinus is town I think I'll be able to tell once he stops being pressured, and he's an asset to town if he is town, whereas RC is deliberately useless and will probably need to eat a policy lynch or vig eventually anyway.

[Cephrir]

I, like my avatar, suck early and scale well into late game.

Doesn't she actually do the opposite of that v.v

[Cephrir]

Couldn't you at least *try*? Focus on two or three players if you have to?

[Cephrir]

Because I think they are town, and they're useful given the assumption that I am correct.

It's not entirely a policy lynch, RC is null for me compared to two players I'm townreading to various degrees. Least of three evils, if you will.

I'm not going any farther on my Rank read. I don't give a crap how many times anybody asks. I said why several times. He's not even in this game anymore, and aside from that we have players who know Orcinus who are actually scum reading his play.

See, I saw what you said, and this is bullshit. You don't want to screw over your friend metawise, but here you are making a meta-based argument which if true would do precisely that. If Rank's slot did flip scum, this argument would become pretty valid and whether or not you cite these games would not be relevant to whether or not others could use this against him in the future, all they'd have to do would be to cite this game.

[Cephrir]

If ya can't handle a little sarcasm and/or think unconfident players are scum you might as well lynch me now!

Glad to see you actually playing though, please don't leave us

[Cephrir]

How can you possibly think both likeabauss and orc are both scum?

That's not really how scumreads work, Sakura.

[Cephrir]

@TIP if you could lynch two people today, who would they be?

That's a good question. How would you answer it?

Hell, if you could lynch

one

person today, who would it be?

[Cephrir]

Alas, I do not.

[Cephrir]

I just can't read anymore of the crap coming from him and FratBoys. Its not even mediocre scum play, it just makes me sad.

I am really tempted to vote you for this.

Cephrir, did I miss a response from you? And why is your vote on somebody that you don't think is scum? Did I read that right?

Did you ask me a question?

You did. I was searching for a counterwagon, and one appeared on a null read, so I went for it. I'm leaning a little more town on him though and starting to accept that orc may not be town. He's not living up to what I expect of him. I did come in with a strong meta read right after he was doing what I expected, but then he stopped. I would like to suggest that orc simply claim now at L-2 rather than allowing for possible derphammers.

[Cephrir]

Sort of, anyway.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=28645

!!!

[Cephrir]

As always, super leery of lynching cop claims without giving them a chance to investigate a couple times.

It's a bad policy but I really can't logic myself into believing this lynch is a good idea.

That said, still don't cc.

[Cephrir]

Hi ceph

a claimed cop is sitting at L-1 in a retarded town

i feel like you should be a bit more anxious about this

I am significantly more anxious than anyone else around here!

[Cephrir]

You've got to be kidding me. Orcinus is scum. Lynch him please. EVERYBODY WHO RESPONDS TO THIS BULLSHIT CLAIM INDICATES TO SCUM THEY ARE OR ARE NOT A/THE COP.

See example: Toomai, TIP, Sakura are likely NOT COPS (if town, which mafia knows, but we don't. You're tipping the balance of the info battle further into scum favor.)

This assertion relies on the argument that all townies are idiots. Yes, they unvoted the claimed cop, but they could easily have done so because he's probably not getting lynched today, with the understanding they would be able to CC eventually.

That said, we don't actually have any assurance there is a cop in the setup, it could easily be all tracker-watcher-etc. So this could very well be irrelevant.

[Cephrir]

Other than that you're town, not much.

[Cephrir]

I am too hesitant to lynch investigative claims though, I know this. sangres, convince me to ignore my better judgement?

[Cephrir]

I don't really believe in orc's claim, but it seems like an easy wagon so I'm also hesitant to vote for him.

Let me fix that for you:

I want to cast doubt on this claim in case the lynch swings that way, but I'm worried I might get heat for actually attacking him. I'll just post here and test the waters to see how town swings.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: caled

This is actually a pretty good argument.

[Cephrir]

You realize those two quotes literally say opposite things from one another, right?

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

My vote is currently pointless. I don't know what to do with it right now though.

[Cephrir]

That's what *you* think!

VOTE: caledfwitch

[Cephrir]

Also, I love how the majority of the Caled wagon is comprised of scummy people...
The Caled wagon:
(someone makes perfectly decent case; VOTE)
(I agree; VOTE)
(I agree too; VOTE)
(I also agree, join the wagon; VOTE)

Not liking this at all.

My real problem here is that JacobSavage is the only player I sincerely want to lynch. So I'm hopping on wagons on my null reads to prevent the lynches of my townreads and/or the claimed cop.

town is pretty softcore and indecisive; lacks centralized voice, lacks a leading force

We have a centralized voice, it just sucks.

Why do you not like the Caled wagon?

Because the guy that started it and a few people on it are scumreads for me.

Ok so which few of these (Sak, Yessiree and myself) are scumreads?

Like for real bauss, not everyone who disagrees with you can be scum.

[Cephrir]

I do think bauss is town still, even though he appears to be smashing my townread on him with a hammer. He also is trying to be the central voice, but again, sucks.

[Cephrir]

Nacho, that you? I'd like to nail down your read on MCMaraca.

Second, I wonder why you aren't pushing for an Orcinus lynch if you trust my Rank read. (If that's changed, please advise.)

I'm not pushing orcinus because the cop claim is making me firm up my own read on hm before pushing to lynch; not confident enough to kill an uncounted claimed cop claim at the moment.

Maraca is leaning town. I didn't like their early push on yessiree, but I think that their play after the fact has been decent. Particularly, mara posts are looking like town as opposed to scum, her sort of edging to the wagon while Cabd was vehemently against it was closer to maras way of disagreeing with a partners read.

Convince me this is significantly different from VS calling me obvtown one post/voting me the next for the entirety of Hard Boiled.

I never give more than that.

If I were to try to explain why I feel that way, no one would understand it.

Even if you have some sort of crazy logic no one will agree with, I'd like to hear it so I can read you.

[Cephrir]

If he was actually town, why not lie and claim vanilla?

You have got to be absolutely fucking kidding me

[Cephrir]

JS, caled, RC.

you got any other scumreads besides bauss and me?

RC, caled, lesser degree JS.

Sorrys bauss but there is no possible way these are scumbuddies! I mean I already knew that, but, yes.

[Cephrir]

BP = bulletproof? Did I use an incorrect acronym? 1shot BP is a town role?

Both FratBros and Orcinus have the exact same lynch list. No way they'd have the same targets? Too obvious to be scumbuddies, right? Hi5 on that brilliant line of thinking (fail.) How naive/scummy can you be? Have you played mafia before? I mean wtf with this.

Based on my reads, I've got a short list of people (about 4) that could be the real cop. I'm guessing the mafia will be able to generate the same or a smaller list. So copper, you might only get 1-2 investigates and you should take that into consideration as you go forward. You can confirm Orcinus scum with your CC and hopefully clear/guilty somebody tonight. But going too far beyond that, your chances of surviving long enough to reveal will dwindle.

zzzzzzzzzz

you got me i'm retarded, good work

[Cephrir]

yessiree jumped off too...

what the actual fuck was that chain of naked votes

[Cephrir]

I read some pages with words on them but my opinion didn't change.

[Cephrir]

If you don't trust my Rank read, just look at his behavior. Reread his ISO, look at the deviations in play as things progressed. Look at post claim play, certainly not that of town.

This is not an argument. Though I would like to interject here that I actually think orc is more likely scum than caled at this point but I'm still not lynching him.

Votecount 1.25

Guyett [L-3] - PeregrineV, Sakura Hana,

orcinus_theoriginal

, TheIrishPope, Toomai,

Angry Frat BROs

JacobSavage [L-4] - sangres,

MC Maraca

,

orcinus_theoriginal

, Cephrir, Hermy

JacobSavage [L-4] - sangres,

MC Maraca

, Cephrir, Hermy,

Angry Frat BROs

RadiantCowbells [L-4] -

MC Maraca

, TheIrishPope, RadiantCowbells, Cephrir,

orcinus_theoriginal

caledfwitch [L-3] -

MC Maraca

, Guyett, Cephrir, sangres,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Angry Frat BROs

4 potentially viable wagons for today, outside of FratBros and Orcinus for today. Look at who is on most of them. This isn't rocket science. Orcinus has been on ALL of them. FratBros and McMaraca on 3 each.

sangres is also on 3 of them, and I'm on 4, so what's your point?

Angry Frat BROs [L-4] - likeabauss, Toomai, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, PeregrineV

orcinus_theoriginal [L-1] - Sakura Hana, sangres, Guyett, PeregrineV, Toomai, likeabauss, yessiree, TheIrishPope

orcinus_theoriginal [L-2] - PeregrineV, likeabauss, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, MVP, yessiree, Sakura Hana

Wagons for FratBros and Orcinus above. NOTICE who isn't on ANY OF THOSE WAGONS?

Angry Frat BROs

orcinus_theoriginal

MC Maraca

Doesn't that strike anybody else as odd? Out of place? They've basically been ALL about lynching anybody else, except for FratBros and Orcinus.

Well I daresay it's not likely we'd find AFB or Orcinus voting for themselves, so I'd venture to guess it's not at all odd that they were not on one wagon each. I am also not on either of these wagons. It is therefore rather easy for me to imagine town doing the same thing.

[Cephrir]

You know who else wasn't on the orc and AFB wagons you quoted? caledfwitch.

DERP

[Cephrir]

I'm not gonna lie, I almost want to lynch bauss for the blatant narrative manipulation at this point. It's just reaching astronomically absurd levels.

[Cephrir]

Even though I'm coming around to orc possibly being scum I have not been successfully convinced that lynching a possible cop D1 is intelligent It could be a gamethrow too easily.

It astonishes me that you can't see any reason your arguments might be unconvincing =/

[Cephrir]

Let's follow the witch.

Vote: Guyett

@Orc-

Your lack of strong obv-towning as you approach impending death to make up for crappy play does not really fall in line with the cop role and town wincon.

Why is that?

It also doesn't fall in line with him being orc.

I'm not gonna lie, I almost want to lynch bauss for the

blatant narrative manipulation

at this point. It's just reaching astronomically absurd levels.

He does this as town. When we last played, it wasn't the only thing about his play that worried me, but it did factor in to my incorrect scum-read.

Where I called him on narrative spinning

K. That's really annoying, but K.

She's not fence-sitting in favor of anything. She's massively cogdissing it up.

If it were newbtown being paranoid, I'd expect a full back-off to see how better players deal with it/to be safe. I'm a fairly experienced player, and I still don't like lynching un-CC'd PRs, even neg-utility ones.

Considering MVPs strong townread and defense of scum-caledwitch, which of the following is true, IYO:

1) Scum-Caled has totally fooled town-MVP (and me) into thinking they are town.
2) Scum-Caled is being protected by scum-MVP.
3) Town-Caled is being correctly read by town-MVP.
4) Town-Caled is being (buddied, whiteknighted) by scum-MVP.

Surely you are aware this scenario applies to any time two players disagree on a read.

[Cephrir]

Let's follow the witch.

Vote: Guyett

@Orc-

Your lack of strong obv-towning as you approach impending death to make up for crappy play does not really fall in line with the cop role and town wincon.

Why is that?

If you are going to try a flashwagon you should really choose a better target.

[Cephrir]

Sangres, I feel like you're trying to talk yourself out of voting for Orcinus. All the indications you've alluded to suggest he's scum based on your experience? Nacho trusts my Rank meta and if my previous assumption is correct your gut read on Orcinus says scum... so what gives?

I just don't get this board sometimes. People will flash wagon a noob who didn't do anything scummy, but won't hang a well known veteran who is basically screaming "I'm scum."

<------true statements

this statement---->

[Cephrir]

Sangres, I feel like you're trying to talk yourself out of voting for Orcinus. All the indications you've alluded to suggest he's scum based on your experience? Nacho trusts my Rank meta and if my previous assumption is correct your gut read on Orcinus says scum... so what gives?

I just don't get this board sometimes. People will flash wagon a noob who didn't do anything scummy, but won't hang a well known veteran who is basically screaming "I'm scum."

<------true statements

this statement---->

hi

it seems like you have been sitting back and dishing out your read-switches on me without an actual effort to ascertain that read

I think you missed the align right part of this post but the point remains, yes, I'm quite uncertain about you but don't feel the need to deal with it immediately because I don't plan on lynching you today and it's looking like you may get lynched whether I like it or not, so not really worth the effort yet

[Cephrir]

>orc flips town
>I deduce that everything I thought before is still true

wow

so scumhunting

such townie

much not having cop

wow

[Cephrir]

I hereby reserve both the right to say "I told you so" if this is wrong and to not be "I told you so"-d if it's right.

[Cephrir]

that's a deal if you hammer

I'm not having any part in this lynch. Convince some idiot to do it.

Don't worry, we have a metric fuckton of idiots lined up!

[Cephrir]

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

[Cephrir]

JS, Toomai, outside chance of Sakura/bauss/caled. Feeling better about you than I was before.

[Cephrir]

I'm aware Toomai is a novel read. He's the one I earlier alluded to maybe building a case on while leaving my vote on JS though.

[Cephrir]

So, we should just lynch all cop claims always, by that logic? =/

[Cephrir]

My scumlist is actually really sad right now, it's something like this:

TOWN
yessiree

NULL
most of you

SCUM
the people I just mentioned

Like actually.

[Cephrir]

Cops dont act scummy.

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen

[Cephrir]

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

The logic here doesn't work. He can clear scum buddies, along with actually townies. If he goes three nights without lynch, we can't be sure if he cleared actual townies or conftown'd scum buddies. I'm sure you understand this.

Leashing an SK comes with proven documented validity. The people die, their roles are revealed. Our only hope of validating Orcinus's claims is by a real cop verifying ALL OF THEM.

This post is made under the assumption that orcinus is mafia, and therefore has nothing to do with anything.

[Cephrir]

Simple- you lynch it on Day 4. IN the interim, you don't follow the cop.

[Cephrir]

Surely you must realize that's pretty much a list of who is and who is not sheeping you

[Cephrir]

I'd like to hear why you suspect me aside from "he's not sheeping me".

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Sakura

[Cephrir]

@bauss again: You expect everyone else to unconditionally accept your Rank meta (without backing it up I might add) but you aren't willing to accept anyone else's meta on me, apparently?

Not that the latter is being pushed as strongly but it has been brought up.

Also, sangres can be town again and I believe in their case but I dunno if I'm willing to budge mostly on principle.

[Cephrir]

My solution would be to pretend his results don't even exist until/unless he flips town. Obviously it's difficult to ignore that WIFOM if it arises, but cost-benefit analysis.

[Cephrir]

By the way, sangres, did you build that case together or was it mostly one or the other of you? If the latter, which?

[Cephrir]

I'd like to hear why you suspect me aside from "he's not sheeping me".

This:

I'm only slight scum on you and discounting my read because of our dynamic (I don't have conviction in my read on you at this point.) Its natural to lean scum on somebody who discredits you, and attacks your arguments, so I'm not putting much stock in my read on you as a result. I hope to develop a better read as the game goes on.

It's mostly a gut read, not based on your actual play. And I've openly discounted it due to a natural bias. I'm not saying "Let's lynch Cephrir" but I'm also not going to say I'm null or town on you. Just being honest/open.

K so it's just that I'm not sheeping you

Noted

@bauss again: You expect everyone else to unconditionally accept your Rank meta (without backing it up I might add) but you aren't willing to accept anyone else's meta on me, apparently?

My Rank-fu is strong. Seriously though, I provided a thoroughly detailed explanation of my Rank read (831), I just didn't cite a bunch of completed games as references. I have deliberately avoided exploiting his game play/tendencies when he's not even here to defend himself (As a matter of courtesy or etiquette if you will.) And, for what its worth, I hate meta reads as they are used on this board for reasons I discussed earlier (1386). My read on Rank is based on a profile of him as a player/person, and my experience with him. Not, "He subbed out on D1 in game 1234, and was scum. Therefore, he must be scum this game."

I haven't seen a comprehensive "case" (or profile of you) as to why you're town/scum on meta (if I missed it, please advise.) But at this point, you've shared openly/discussed willingly all the topics of conversation. This is the type of play that will yield a better vantage point into your alignment after a couple days. So, I'm content to personally sort you later when the body of work becomes available.

If I ever come under serious suspicion I'm sure it will be discussed.

[Cephrir]

(In greater depth anyway)

[Cephrir]

And I'm not going to bother addressing how your two different ideas of meta are the same thing, as it's plainly useless.

[Cephrir]

I beg to differ!

[Cephrir]

Not sure I like orc's leap onto the Sak wagon... looks pretty desperate to me

No shit, Sherlock! You'd be desperate too if you were clearly about to be lynched!

[Cephrir]

Incidentally, thanks for popping in and towning Mara, that was super.

@Guyett: No it doesn't

[Cephrir]

I believe we are competent enough to make the decision without info from flip and night action

I believe we are so massively incompetent that neither the flip nor night actions will resolve our general stupidity, but we should still lynch over nolynch on principle.

[Cephrir]

I wonder if a player has ever been discussed this much in a game after replacing out within like 5 posts.

[Cephrir]

I can think of at least two other possibilities

[Cephrir]

The main issue is the lack of another viable wagon

[Cephrir]

APBRO- y u no vote counterwagon

I don't believe in this counterwagon but I don't really care

[Cephrir]

Going to bed soon... thinking I should probably stay here...

[Cephrir]

If RC accumulates 3 votes in the next half hour I will switch

[Cephrir]

He's scum? The only thing I see in his iso that makes me feel even remotely okay is him not jumping at the chance to lynch you, but that really isn't much.

[Cephrir]

I'm not as strongly anti-JS as I once was but he's still probably my best scumread.

I am not doing well in the scumreads department this game, mostly because of all the morons.

P-edit: I know almost zero about his meta. I have seen him lurk as town and super massive hyper lurk as SK.

[Cephrir]

Well, I'm officially going to sleep now. If I see anyone post in this thread in the next 5.5 hours without voting Sakura, I will consider them to have claimed scum. Good night.

[Cephrir]

Not at all upset about that thing getting booted out of here. Well, either of them, really.

Cabd, you better have something to tell us.

[Cephrir]

Vote orcinus

[Cephrir]

I thought we had something special q.q

[Cephrir]

That you did

I'd do it the same way again though

[Cephrir]

That was @ yessiree not sure why I'm not getting post previews

[Cephrir]

Not worried. Shit's mafia.

[Cephrir]

</3

[Cephrir]

Thank you for the brilliant insight Mr. Savage

[Cephrir]

Toomai, what's your graph looking like?

Graph?

Thank you Cabd/Mara

VOTE: Hermy

I don't really feel like this case is reasonable, so I can't say I like you voting on it without batting an eye.

[Cephrir]

Your graphs are beautiful.

I actually love that it took until Day 3 for that to come up, like, so much.

[Cephrir]

I meant beautiful as in townie-looking

I can think of a way to resolve Hermy's apparent contradiction but I'm not going to hand it to her.

[Cephrir]

I don't know what to do today!

[Cephrir]

I guess it might be iso time.

[Cephrir]

That was not the solution I was looking for, but I also don't remember what the solution I was looking for actually is.

I should have realized I would forget that.

[Cephrir]

Yeah, but I mean I had a way it could have not been a contradiction but it looks like it was one~

[Cephrir]

Why do I not want 80% the players in this game anywhere near lylo?

[Cephrir]

This game went from really interesting to really boring really fast.

[Cephrir]

Can we just kill everyone but me and the two people I'm pretty sure are town

The rest of you scare me

[Cephrir]

Actually I lied I have 4 reasonable townreads

[Cephrir]

I'm not entirely sure how that could be a freudian slip unless you're suggesting [redacted].

[Cephrir]

I've been thinking about this out of thread a little. If Cabd were lying, there would be some really obvious parallels to a certain other game, which I modded.

I find it hard to believe he would try to pull that shit with me in the game.

On the other hand, this is Cabd we're dealing with.

[Cephrir]

Yes, Guyett, I am fully aware of the bauss nightkill wifom. Thank you for sharing.

[Cephrir]

That isn't a good reason.

If they claimed follower and didn't target orc that night, in fact, I would lynch them on the fucking spot, so.

[Cephrir]

a.) If they followed orc and he was mafia but didn't make the kill, they would still get "orcinus did nothing". He claimed cop.

b.) what the actual FUCK is post 2257.

[Cephrir]

I'm calling bullshit on this follower claim

So am I, but that unfortunately does not make them scum.

[Cephrir]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5113731

[Cephrir]

Ceph, where are your reads at? You indicated several townreads today, do you have anything to add or subtract from my list?

Yeah, yessiree is town.

Other than that, I basically agree.

Sorry if I'm being a little useless today.

[Cephrir]

I'm feeling slightly paralyzed by nightkill WIFOM. But putting that aside for the time being, Guyett, JS and RC would be the ones I'd have to choose between. Unfortunately, RC has a better chance of being town than the other two.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Guyett, I guess.

[Cephrir]

11. Angry Frat BROs - Scum - General play, plus meta from one or two others, plus likeabauss's good case on him/them.

Meta, what meta?

14. RadiantCowbells -

Town

- General play looks great.
17. TheIrishPope -

Scum

-

Lack of useful activity, intelligent posts and any useful play whatsoever

. Posted a little bit more after being called out for lack of stuff, but the 'more' was still mainly crap.

You're kidding, right?

[Cephrir]

I don't especially agree with your last sentence (even though it is clearly meta based and I have no such meta), but yes. He's been my strongest townread all game. It boggles my mind that this is not universal.

[Cephrir]

I'm reasonably certain that's L-3

[Cephrir]

The fact that you're only ~20 posts ahead of me is disconcerting.

Almost as disconcerting as me having the 2nd highest post count.

If it makes you feel better, I'm only 2 posts behind you.

1 now, I suppose.

[Cephrir]

Sometimes saying things like that isn't worth it.

Actually always.

[Cephrir]

We're not lynching AFB today. Sorry if some of you didn't get the memo.

[Cephrir]

God dammit I thought TIP was softclaiming cop.

It was also obvious MCM was claiming to have found Dr. AFB.

TBH I've had sneaking worries about AFB for one reason, and one reason only: why the fuck do scum kill bauss if AFB isn't scum?

[Cephrir]

I don't really care for nightkill wifom, but like, bauss existing is so ridiculously beneficial to an AFBless scumteam that the wifom is clearly not worth it IMO

So if AFB isn't scum, and you're not scum, then the scumteam is bad.

[Cephrir]

I'd be quite interested to hear who AFB protected last night, as that person theoretically should be "confirmed town".

[Cephrir]

(except of course they really aren't)

[Cephrir]

Well, at least they'd be confirmed as a successful protection, maybe, in theory, since there was one less kill last night. If he then flipped scum doc, well...

[Cephrir]

You should have another cop result RC. What is it?

[Cephrir]

Because he had to investigate orcinus

Duh?

[Cephrir]

Oh yeah, I'm voting this guy. That's not okay.

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

Agreed, although today might not be the day for it.

[Cephrir]

Vote AFB

[Cephrir]

This sentence is a blatant lie. Lack of contraction + use of intensifier to amplify honesty. I can smell the duper's delight through my computer.

this sounds like something bauss would say =/

[Cephrir]

hold the FUCKING phone

[Cephrir]

i fucking hate playing PRs

get off my wagon or at least get me to l-2

i don't fucking trust this town lol

cop

and i still deserve the case on me?

I never wanted an Orc lynch.

I want fking Frat Bro.

I never wanted an Orc lynch.

never

Fuck you

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

Additional relevant things on both sides of the argument

Orcinus could in fact be scum.

I'd still rather do Frat Br0s.

the FUCK

this is BEFORE orc claims and he then says he never wanted the lynch

that LITERALLY IS NOT TRUE

Normally I'd claim cop right here.

I'm not going to this game.

On the other hand this is a breadcrumb

Normally I'd claim cop, gambiting that he's fake, to secure his lynch and make mafia target me the next night.

Not because I am cop. I might be something else though.

And its not trolling at all, it's a success story.

I'm not even sure what the fuck this is

There isn't necessarily a real cop hiding out there somewhere.

Why do you even think there's a cop in the setup?

Cabd seems to be claiming role cop.

Why did you not have an issue with this

Hermy is town.

AFB is not.

Questions?

At least you didn't make Hermy up on the spot

If you are a cop RC you FUCKING BLOW at this game

[Cephrir]

Okay I can't numbers please ignore the first quote but like still what the fuck

[Cephrir]

that's ALL YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT POST?

[Cephrir]

Excuse me I'm gonna go have a fucking aneurysm

[Cephrir]

Yeah, I don't think he is

Great fucking job RC

[Cephrir]

how about we don't and also fuck you

[Cephrir]

TIP, if you aren't a cop, you should probably just admit it. Because I'm ready to vote Hermy at this point.

[Cephrir]

I don't even know anymore.

[Cephrir]

Wow ceph you haven't figured it out yet? It was kind of obvious. Tippy even softclaimed it day two.

I may be blind but you're still wrong, so there.

WARNING: The scumteam is hardcore defending each other in this game in the hopes that, as a united entity that is able to exert a greater amount of influence over the scattered individual, they can take control of the flow of the game.

I am and have been rather paranoid about this, even if mostly in private.

I will explain things more at some point in the future.

Hermy/RC/yessiree for remaining scum.

Would also explain why TIP survived last night.

No.

I don't have a goddamn guilty on Hermy.

[Cephrir]

I don't have a goddamn guilty on Hermy.

Do you have an innocent on AFB?

[Cephrir]

Unfortunately, I am rapidly being forced into the assumption that yessiree is right.

It would also explain the weirdness I got from how constantly AFB has been appealing to my intelligence.

[Cephrir]

...Cabd does?

[Cephrir]

I guess there is another role you could be.

[Cephrir]

Meanwhile I'm standing in the middle arguing with myself and being convinced by whoever posted last.

[Cephrir]

Oh, actually, you can't be the role I was thinking of AFB. Sooooo

[Cephrir]

this game

[Cephrir]

It *is* quite a coincidence.

[Cephrir]

The only way MC could be non-scum is if Roleblocking is classified as a protective action, which I've seen it as.

???

[Cephrir]

I just don't understand what caused you to leap to that conclusion... are you asserting that mafia doctors don't exist?

It's not relevant anyway since you are clearly full of shit, but...

[Cephrir]

Oh, the wiki page explicitly states that mafia doctors don't have guns. I assumed whoever said that was crazy.

[Cephrir]

I guess it's possible. I just wish RC hadn't deliberately ruined his own credibility repeatedly, it would make it a lot easier to believe. Even though everything makes sense if we think of it that way.

[Cephrir]

And there could be a scum godfather only catchable by the gunsmith. That'd be really cute. Only issue with that theory is that Maraca is almost definitively scum if we accept RC and TIP as both real.

[Cephrir]

I'm not sure I agree. There's a small open setup with 2 cops. Why not a cop and a gunsmith?

[Cephrir]

I would really like to put my crazy paranoid theories to bed and go back to playing mafia based on players' actual in thread performance and I don't think I will ever be completely at ease in this game while AFB and MCM are both alive. I've felt this way since the moment I saw the N1 kill.

[Cephrir]

I just don't understand why RC would botch his reaction to orcinus so incredibly badly.

[Cephrir]

Also, TIP didn't go "scum scum scum lynch lynch lynch" when orcinus claimed cop. Guess he thought it was plausible to have both roles in the same setup!

And cop/follower is almost as crazy as cop/gunsmith but you didn't instantly lynch orcinus.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo you fail at logic.

[Cephrir]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=21285 2 cops in 18 players
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=22676 cop & tracker in 17 players
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=22748 cop & 2 1-shot gunsmiths in 19 players

all new york

you lose

[Cephrir]

PS, I only went through about 15 games to find those and never checked the roles of any players who survived the game