Mini 1547 - Wicked Mafia (Game Over!)
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can some1 help why is mala getting weird on me and talking to confscumIn post 31, Malakittens wrote:Mina y so serious.
does anyone disagree on mina thing as scum
Sorry guys, my brain was fried last night and I was messing around.
Those post were precisely what I would say if I were impersonating Mollie, and I just wanted to have a little fun at the beginning. Regrettably, it is true Mollie has not posted in this game yet.In post 52, Malakittens wrote:I think it was genuinely Mollie, but I'm now questioning it also.
From past games, I know that she can be rather confident if she thinks she's right.In post 56, Mina wrote:Mala just doesn't strike me as a particularly confident or vocal player in general.
It was my signal that I knew he/she was joking about the investigation results. Instead of pointing out how there was no N0 and that scum don't scumclaim like that, I played along and waited to see how people would dismiss his/her case on his/herself.In post 38, Malakittens wrote:Can you explain why you aren't voting this confscum?
It's cool that you picked RVS when tensions aren't high yet.In post 46, Mina wrote:I'd made a joke that everyone would fake guilties on me and quicklynch me in RVS the next time I played Mafia--also, I figured it'd get interesting reactions.
Calling someone out for disappearing within hours of gamestart isn't a promising argument...In post 46, Mina wrote:I almost voted Hanzo (the hydra vote was abysmal and safe, and I don't like how he disappeared when he did)
What questions? I don't think the questions she has asked are really provoking emotion...but most of all I don't really know where you're going with this meta discussion about Mala. You speak as if you don't know much about her town OR scum past game play...as evidenced by you asking other people how Mala has played scum/town in the past.In post 46, Mina wrote:She also ninja'd me toward a couple of questions I wanted to ask, which is a good sign.
Spoiler:
I've noticed that you pay really close attention to when people disappear for a few hours. Is this how you keep other players engaged? What purpose do these call-outs serve?In post 47, Mina wrote:Hanzoooooo, where are you?
Your walls are so Wall-E!
Ooh, a very cold tone in this post, huh?In post 58, Ampersand wrote:For future reference, all of our posts will be made jointly, which does mean we won't be posting during working hours.
I don't know anything about you other than that you kickstarted Marathon Weekend in December by unlocking the sub-forum!!! Therefore you are on my good side. <3In post 40, chamber wrote:I'm sure that reference would be funny if I knew anything about bert.
Your handling of the back-and-forth situation with Chamber is really odd - trying to inch away from continuing on the convos! I was quite enjoying the 1 on 1 banter! I felt like you two were really cooperating with each other and sorting out reads, so...In post 46, Mina wrote:Malakittens seems somewhat fluffy, but relaxed and chatty.
P-edit: HI NOTSCIENCE!!
HI NOTTY! <3In post 85, notscience wrote:HI MOLLIE
qftIn post 93, notscience wrote:I am popcorn jesusIn post 90, Malakittens wrote:What are you talking about?In post 89, bazinga wrote:NOTTY MALA WANTS TO SEE YOU TURN ON THAT HIGH-POWERED SCUMDAR THAT YOU HAVE COS SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE ME WHEN I TRIED TO TELL HER ABOUT HOW YOU SLAUGHTERED SCUM IN SKYPE SO CAN DO THAT AND MAKE HER HAPPY? TY <3
why are you suspicious of them?In post 109, Zdenek wrote:The day that people actually listen to me about such things in mafia game has yet to come, so I didn't really expect wagons to magically form on either Hanzo or Medea. I also didn't really feel like making a nit-picky post pointing out the lines in their posts that I took issue with. I decided that I would just make the post that I did to indicate my suspicion of the two of them.
we are town! and I am thinking you are too mebbe!
I am leaning town tooIn post 143, notscience wrote:Mollie what are you thinking of Mala?
I'm leaning town, I don't think scum-mala would have gotten mad at me being PL-bait and I'm liking some of the stuff she's saying
I don't get the question about why I am being so passive tho cos it isn't like I am except for making bert vote bro which he should be doing when he next comes on
okay you are town
who are we lynching I wanna lynch bro
I am not sure how you are confused since I addressed bro by name at the start of my post!In post 148, chamber wrote:I was talking to mollie and was asking if it was to bro >_>.In post 142, Malakittens wrote:He's talking to me if it's his last two posts you are referring too.
I am getting there but scumbro is uber scary but I might go with chamber cos yeah he is being weirdIn post 150, notscience wrote:I've never been great at reading Bro. I kinda want to start a chamber wagon because this feels different than the chamber I've played with (town each time)
I
glared
stared at bro's scum game in the first xeno game. the only way to catch him is to view his angles and his angle on mala is very wrong and not in a derpy way it seems premeditated somehowokay but you used the same word with the exact same spelling but were confused when I used it? that doesn't make senseIn post 152, chamber wrote:Because I was dumb and read bro in a generic usage of the word. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broIn post 151, bazinga wrote:I am not sure how you are confused since I addressed bro by name at the start of my post!In post 148, chamber wrote:I was talking to mollie and was asking if it was to bro >_>.In post 142, Malakittens wrote:He's talking to me if it's his last two posts you are referring too.
This is me actually being invested in a game notscience. IE: town me. You've only seen lazy town me before I'm guessing.
are you being serious?In post 160, chamber wrote:In post 157, bazinga wrote:okay but you used the same word with the exact same spelling but were confused when I used it? that doesn't make sense
Are you actually being serious here?
I read things and process their meaning prior to writing responses, therefore wasn't thinking of the words but their processed meaning when writing what I wrote.
since when has the meaning of a word been processed before processing the word itself? who does that? you don't even know what you are processing
omg
well I am always kind of trolly! but I was being serious did you not see my serious faceIn post 166, chamber wrote:I feel like I'm being trolled, so the former if you've been serious the whole time.In post 163, bazinga wrote:okay?
I mean I am having a hard time with wondering if this is a collision of worldviews or if you are scum.
thoughts on bro?
you're fond of starting wagons - are you waffling, or else why not start your own wagon on chamber then??In post 150, notscience wrote:I kinda want to start a chamber wagon because this feels different than the chamber I've played with (town each time)
This is abysmal. Lazy is not alignment indicative. Are you asking us not to use notscience's town meta of you?? What do you have to hide??In post 152, chamber wrote:This is me actually being invested in a game notscience. IE: town me. You've only seen lazy town me before I'm guessing.
Yep, Scumplay AND townplay have been equally bad in the past completed recent games.In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:If he'll forgive the statement, Bert's recent scumplayhas been so utterly shit that I can't see him rocking off these terrible games and leaping into the forefront here, going as far to playfully impersonate the other head.
"I'm not sure I felt, I gotta sleep on that" also constitutes passiveness! Tell me, how was Mollie being passive, judging from a few posts upon her entrance?In post 125, Malakittens wrote:Mollie why are you being so passive?
I'm not sure how I felt about Zdenek's wagon comment. I gotta sleep on that.
What motivated you to say this and use this as a defense?In post 141, BROseidon wrote:And mollie, I think the only time you've ever town read me from the start of a game was when I was in hydra.
OK...what happen to be your takes on people not named Medea or Hanzo?In post 168, Zdenek wrote:It's not a number of posts thing. It's a quality of the explanation thing.
I find this funny when you are unwilling to give explanations for your reads!In post 168, Zdenek wrote:It's not a number of posts thing. It's a quality of the explanation thing.In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:how many posts from a user does it take to have a townread, at the minimum? One? Ten? Twenty? 100? Where's the bar set?
Mala was not townreading Bazinga (our hydra) early on in this game, much less on page 2!In post 170, Hanzo_5 wrote:You did not like it because, 1)you felt it was lazy,2)You were town reading the hydra i voted for at the time.3) I came into this game knowing there were hydras.
(1) I have not been imitating mollie's behavior ever since the beginning of the game. What is suspicious, as Mala has pointed out, is that you singled out ONE hydra out of the five in the game for reasons that would apply to ALL hydras here. I can't see from your POV why you appear so frustrated and inexperienced when hydras aren't new to mafia here. Faulty logic again and again - I gave you a pass during RVS, but we are way past that!In post 170, Hanzo_5 wrote:When i find someone scummy to vote for I will do that in the meantime I am fine with lynching Bazinga as a last resort. I do not like hydras because they can be confusing. I would have been more inclined to simply unvote but, Bazinga is not signing posts and imitating mollie's behavior.
(2) Why are we a last resort?? Do you actually believe in your case on us (bazinga), that you could justify a lynch on it?? It doesn't seem that way, with the "I'll only lynch them as a last resort" thing.
oh hell no are you going to go after nacho for lack of posting. he has been busyIn post 212, Mina wrote:Here's a shocking idea:In post 209, BROseidon wrote:HOLY SHIT MINA LET ME FINISH SPAM POSTING CATCHING UP THEN I'LL POST THE UPDATED CASE.
You just combine like 3 of your quotes into one post so that you don't bloat the thread! This goes to everyoneon mafiascumin this game thread, not really to you in particular.
Also, I'm missing something with the headdesks.
========
bazinga, can you sell me on Hanzo being town? He's just very...rigid in the stuff he's calling scummy (it's all very theory-of-the-game-based), although it could be a player thing. Also, I could do a BRO vote. Let.
Oh, also, I forgot ToastyToast. I guess he can go in scum, since what little he did say was kind of scummy?
Ghatokaca, why hasn't Nacho posted yet?
what would you say if I told you that this really isn't over the top rage and emotion for bro? he is just cranky and tbh that is actually a town tell for him usually but I would expect him to be mixing up his meta right now. he has moved to unsure because his scumdar is probably 1 of the best on the site and I get even a whiff of towniness he will be in my do not touch pile. and I am not trusting anybody else's read but my own him I just need time to sort out him a bit. I did not like his discrediting my read on him cos I most certainly do not read him as scum in every game it was only in xeno2 that I was wrong and that was because fery and nachos were all "BRO IS SCUMZORZ!!! ARRRGGHHH!!!" even tho I kept trying to say no, I think he is town. in red wedding I knew right off the bat he was town and in the first xeno I had him as scum but fery and nacho were all like "NOOOOOOO!!! HE IS TOWNZ!!" and wouldn't let me near him. so I am sticking with my own read on him. I also read him correctly as both alignments in some other games to so he is outright misrepping me I am going to have to think about that.In post 233, Mina wrote:Oh, one last thing.
What about over-the-top rage and emotion? Is he good at faking that?In post 153, bazinga wrote:I glared stared at bro's scum game in the first xeno game. the only way to catch him is to view his angles and his angle on mala is very wrong and not in a derpy way it seems premeditated somehow
I am talking about the early exchanges with mina and you said were meIn post 243, bazinga wrote:@ penny
you do realise that those exchanges were with bert? I think it is funny how whatever hydra I am in always winds up being universally referred to as mollie and you know who this has annoyed the most so far is borky
in xeno2 I only read you as scum for the first part of the day, openly stated I was sheeping fery's read. I read you correctly (finally) in sabotage did you forget that game alreadyIn post 251, BROseidon wrote:Only other game we've had together was AG, where I was with AP?In post 242, bazinga wrote:I also read him correctly as both alignments in some other games to so he is outright misrepping me I am going to have to think about that.
And you legit scumread me for a good part of Xeno2.
the reason you are looking scummy hanzo is that you are missing obvious social cues that mala is very obviously town. I personally do not know what to do with that especially if you are insisting on being stubborn about it. like you are not even trying to talk to peeps who know herIn post 260, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Zdenek,I am reading Malakittens as scum. Everyone else is null to me.
What is your current read of Malakittens? Would you be willing to lynch Malakittens in D1?
@ mala
am wondering about penny! her not realising that it was bert posting in spite of bert saying that he was posting at that time worries me like in a big way.
eta: zden srsly?
In post 270, macmollie wrote:I didn't play into the self-investigation that was all bertDo you seriously believe that 'mollie' playing into Mina's self-investigation jest in the first 10 game posts is the same thing as her trying to soft-push people?
this was me
okay okay that is where I thought you were originally coming from but the post looked weirdIn post 272, Medea the Alien wrote:...hence the 'quotes' around 'mollie'In post 270, macmollie wrote:I didn't play into the self-investigation that was all bertDo you seriously believe that 'mollie' playing into Mina's self-investigation jest in the first 10 game posts is the same thing as her trying to soft-push people?
My point was that even if it had been you, it wasn't indicative of the kind of scum play Cabd was saying you'd be prone to making where BRO said it was a reason to invalidate Cabd's read because BRO said 'you' were doing what Cabd said was a scum tell for you. The timing meant it wasn't serious from your hydra.
--PA
I have a huge list of naughty people, not enough town reads, I want to put you in my town pile can you plz help me do that
why aren't you voting bro?
:/In post 276, Medea the Alien wrote:Hi mollie, she passed out so you've got me now. As for our lack of vote, I wanted to see what Bro would do with reading our slot, and have time to confer with penguin on what she expected from hypothethical town-bro and scum-bro in this instance. You may have our sword, if you'd like it.
I don't get how penny passed out she isn't that much of a drinker from what I have observed.
this feels like a bait/switch gambit
I don't like your hedge on bro and mina, I think they are diametrically opposed so a stance with your skill should not be a problem. chamber is a gaslight so I find it interesting that is who you are reading as town other than us and mala.In post 281, Medea the Alien wrote:You and mala are town as fuck.
Not a fan of Bro by any means, but we can't put our finger on why. Just something about the way he handwaved the z-fox thing's case on us away while still leaving the door open to jump on later. Mine's comment about me being a scumread initially due to burden of proficiency struck me as ood and kinda worries me because she did something similar as scum in Marketplace 3 but not the exact same way so maybe not? Chamber is kinda town, reminding me of red wine and trollie's Macbeth mafia so far. Not liking much of toasty's posts so far, but he's kinda derp given the one game I have played with him in the past so I dunno.
The rest are still in the jumble-sorter in my head and our skypechat.
but talk to me more about mina, I have only 1 completed game with her and she was scum and this is defo not in this game unless she decided to ramp it up for some reason.
this is weird, cos people's reads can be every single bit indicative of their alignment. sometimes town are wrong. what is alignment indicative is if you observe the trajectory behind it and see how it does not match up. and I am observing yours and I am not following how you got there especially after your exchanges with her.In post 295, chamber wrote:I do.
If you can't separate peoples reads from their alignment, I don't have any good advice for you; Sometimes townies are wrong(like 50% of the time for me).
yeah how the fuck out of this thread do you wind up with wanting to lynch notty mala and I is fucking beyond me ut?
in other newz, I can't tell if I like amperthing or not, I loved fenny's post but ces is a sneaky little sneak when he is scum who sneaks around sneakily while sneaking with other sneaks. I can't read him worth shit and have to rely on patrick and cdb in skype.
in other newz, I can't tell if I like amperthing or not, I loved fenny's post but ces is a sneaky little sneak when he is scum who sneaks around sneakily while sneaking with other sneaks. I can't read him worth shit and have to rely on patrick and cdb in skype.
you are!In post 325, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:my question would be how can you not, but then I guess you wouldn't want to lynch yourself
anyway, I don't think we've ever played a game together where we've been on the same page, so this shouldn't be a new experience for you (I'm assuming I'm talking to mollie here)
I am hoping to change that if we are on the same team!
I think your d1 pushes are pretty bad. like right now your top 3 are pretty bad and I just don't know about you.
what is your argument for not voting bro
I don't think mala is scum or a shitty playerIn post 329, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:well my #1 argument is that I don't think he's scum and he'd be a terrible let's-get-rid-of-a-shitty-player-lynch
what's your argument for not voting mala?
why do you think so?
Bert has not had access over the past 24-ish hours and is now just re-skimming the game. Bert did not see Falcon posting much prior to him leaving for a day.In post 332, Ghatokaca wrote:Bert, is there a reason why you haven't attempted to sort or interact with me?
~ F-16
This is Bert.
Signed,
- Bert
VOTE: ossy thingIn post 336, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:mina is this our first game together!??! squeeee I'm so excited for how underwhelmed you're going to be
our plan was to discuss things via skype but lolconflicting schedules hence why I just went rogue instead of continuing to wait around to confer with bonebone
I'm a bit confused as to why you think my list is random. I'm allowed to have gut reads yo. gut reads are my jam.
BS!In post 339, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:also two OLD games don't really establish meta so maybe hold back on trying that tactic?
you're reckless in this game so far, what is up with thatIn post 325, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:anyway, I don't think we've ever played a game together where we've been on the same page, so this shouldn't be a new experience for you (I'm assuming I'm talking to mollie here)
Ooh letting your emotion control your actions, how uncharacteristic of youIn post 342, Ghatokaca wrote:MOTHERFUCKER NEVER LOVED US
What makes you think Mala is likely to get lynched? Do you see Mala as a compromise lynch then since it's a "more useful use of your vote?"In post 337, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Since Mala is a more likely lynch at this point, it is a more useful use of our vote. While we may disagree on some reads, and though it appears otherwise we're getting on the same page.
what tell do you think we aren't picking up, that you think you are able to?In post 336, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:I'm a bit confused as to why you think my list is random. I'm allowed to have gut reads yo. gut reads are my jam.
You voted Ampersand. Do you have a problem with Amper's reads list?? back these reads up please because they look unpersuasive - I am wondering if your scumread on Medea is influenced by the speculation (doubt) about Medea going around hereIn post 255, ToastyToast wrote:I find Ampersand, Medea, and Osseus the scummiest.
I'm not doing the scumhunting oriented posts, but my posts are easy to tell apart from Mollie's save the early impersonating posts in RVS.In post 170, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Bazinga, It seems to me that your intent is to establish a read based on Chambers misinterpretation of the word bro and who it was aimed at. Is that your intent?
If the Bert head is going to do all of the scumhunting oriented posts could you two please start signing your posts.
I'm not Mollie, but this doesn't pass any smell test! Far-fetched and unreasonable!In post 152, chamber wrote:Because I was dumb and read bro in a generic usage of the word. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro
I moved on from here years agoIn post 170, Hanzo_5 wrote: @Bazinga,[/b] It seems to me that your intent is to establish a read based on Chambers misinterpretation of the word bro and who it was aimed at. Is that your intent?
I don't think bert is the only 1 doing scumhunting and wow what a weird postIf the Bert head is going to do all of the scumhunting oriented posts could you two please start signing your posts.
talk to me about this scumread you have on us. whyIn post 315, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:so I'm down for lynching notscience, mala, and bazinga.
OK so it's late at night so I can answer this!In post 332, Ghatokaca wrote:Bert, is there a reason why you haven't attempted to sort or interact with me?
~ F-16
(1) Less pressure in the beginning of the game so you can get going if town.
(2) You've been a non-entity so far, for the most part, and plus Nacho hasn't shown up yet.
this makes me go yuckIn post 380, Malakittens wrote:Need to see more.
I have a hard time reading Nacho, surprisingly.
nacho's catchup post is awful but I am too chickenshit to go after him but I am really sus of any1 who thinks that was town nacho in any way. like that was srsly scumnacho posting
In post 398, pirate mollie wrote:In post 394, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Re: Hanzo #346 - It didn't seem like an RVS vote to me, but alright.
Bert isn't scumhunting. I want to save this for posterity. I don't think either head of this hydra is actually scumhunting in the first place so...In post 352, bazinga wrote:SNIP
I'm not doing the scumhunting oriented posts, but my posts are easy to tell apart from Mollie's save the early impersonating posts in RVS.
SNIP
...wait...you're...you're actually serious about this? Then you have the AUDACITY to link to our last game together (where I was town and you weren't) where I come right into the game and among other things read ETL as scum for CHANGING VOTES WITHOUT REASONS. I can't speak for UT but you're funny trying to misrepresent my meta so hard. I'd be hard pressed to find any game where I am okay with people voting without reasons. Like you did in this post I quoted.In post 371, Ghatokaca wrote:SNIPThis doesn't seem like something that's characteristic coming from either of you.In post 63, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Man do I dislike votes without reasons.Talk to me. Is this your serious vote or your 'RVS'?
SNIP
I think it's more likely he sees a couple of votes on my wagon and decides to slide in and sneak his vote on the wagon. It's funny you should link Micro 252, and I'm sure Bro and the other 'metausers' will like it as I was town and Nacho was scum. I can buy Ghackota as scum based on the misrep alone.
@Bro, I don't have another hydra game in which I was town (and said game was 3 years ago). Nacho linked you a game in which I was town and played poorly, but if you're looking for "meta" sure, use it I guess. The essence of things I look for in scum are there. I don't put much stock into meta, it's not all that reliable, and its too easy for scum to do to pretend to scumhunt.
Too much meta talk, anyone want to talk to me about reads in THIS game?what I love about this is that ossy people are saying WHOA HO META IS BAD!!! ARRRRGHH!!!In post 395, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:But Bro Here. I played a better game then in Micro 252, if it'll help you see the painfully obvious.
and yet gives a self meta argument in the very next post
bless their little heart
In post 400, chamber wrote:It was more a 'you are terribly misapplying my meta' statement. When someones coming at you with meta how do you expect to defend yourself without self metaing?In post 398, pirate mollie wrote:and yet gives a self meta argument in the very next post
how are we playing poorly exactly?In post 424, Ghatokaca wrote:Mina, I have a confident read on Medea. What do you think of Zdenek? I find him either bad town or scum but I can't decide which. Part of the reason I am having trouble getting confident townreads is poor play.
~ F-16
I am always interested in feedback
Please explain this - how have Medea's posts been emotionless??In post 456, ToastyToast wrote:There is something about the perceivedemotionlessnature of your posts that is making my gut twitch. I don't trust people who have little tono emotional reactionto a person's attack on their allignment.
Then ask us to clarify whatever you think is vague!In post 456, ToastyToast wrote:Bazinga's reasoning is very vague. Perhaps there will be more explanation as I read on.
not a waste of time if you wanna play to your fullest potential <3In post 456, ToastyToast wrote:I'm not going to memorize who makes up what. Its a waste of time.
In post 456, ToastyToast wrote:Regardless of the accuracy of her claim that voting for a hydra is lazy (it actually IS lazy, but that doesn't mean its scummy. Have ya'all seriously never been in a game where someone tries to start a policy lynch?), is it not a town act to challenge a persons seemingly vague and unsupported vote?
I generally hate meta arguments, but I may have to check out some of your game history.
when people have shown a skeptical attitude about your reads, you could continue trying to paint a picture of why your reads are what they are, but you show frustration and try to slam the door with "deal with it, this is how I figure out people in every game"In post 235, ToastyToast wrote:And if you have a problem with how I figure people out in every freaking game, then you're going to have to deal with it.
you made a solid case on ToastyToast, so why not vote her right now?In post 465, Medea the Alien wrote:And this is so incredibly non-specific and noncommittal. Mala's town, but not strongly, and I think she's shady, but I won't vote her--for now.
Are you saying hydra dissonance is scummy?In post 447, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:It's interesting because what I was getting from F-16 is that he doesn't expect PA's behavior to change. He expects a certain aggression coming from a townPA, and Nacho expects PA to lurk as town so she could emulate this behavior as scum. It doesn't make asense, and I don't think this slot believes their own argument.
I don't really see why people wouldn't defend you right now cos most games I've seen - your approach is so much more assertive than I remember from past games, while not being too aggressiveIn post 445, Malakittens wrote:On a random note the one thing that is bothering me about Nacho is that he's defending me.
@Hanzo, what players do you think are the most likely to be scum, in no particular order? Also, please don't respond with a wall - I just want a concise explanation if possible for that, to get right to the point. I was looking for when you've shown that you've processed some reads to see what direction you are headed towards, but I couldn't find any...
How nuanced Falcon's reads are don't really mean the person being defended is scum or town...take, for example, Falcon-scum's read on me-scum in Newbie 1429 past game (below in spoilers). They are just as nuanced as read explanations he would post as town.In post 515, Zdenek wrote:They don't.
But I don't think that Medea is scum with Ghato since I think that the read that scum-Ghato is giving on Medea looks like a bs town read that scum would invent to defend a townie rather than one that they would to defend a buddy, since it is so nuanced. If they were giving a read this strong on a buddy I think they would want something more obvious.
Spoiler:
What doesn't matter, chamber?In post 540, chamber wrote:You are being transparent about things that don't matter.
Also @Falcon: I'll answer soon, but I gotta talk to Mollie about the latest developments first. My hydra play is different in that I won't be spouting off gut reads and stuff. <3 I can say that we both thought Chamber's play is weirding us out, and that Zdenek gave us townvibes thus far.
unless something dramatic happens, we will not be lynching those gat things today. so you guys might as just give that up right now I will throw a temper tantrum that will make the walls of ms shake and the ground tremble.
bert and I still need to go over our reads but I am sure pretty sure we will wind up with a town read on them even if nacho is not paying as much to me as I would like. DO YOU HEAR ME NACHO YOU ARE NOT PAYING AS MUCH ATTENTION TO ME AS I WOULD LIKE BUT I GOT YOUR PSYCHIC MESSAGES ARE YOU HAPPY???? CAN YOU PLZ PAY ATTENTION TO ME NOW!!!
re: penny
there are a couple of cog-dis pieces of penny's posts that bug me on a profound level and I am trying to remember what it was that she did that made me think town during that 1 point. I didn't see it in their iso so I am probably just going to have to go to sections of the game and try to find what is. I have gotten the feeling all along that this is 1 of those instances where you put some1 as a town read for really dumb reasons. however this post:
what I like about cabd is how he immediately got close, not with the town read but with the wanting to iron out reads at the time that he did. I am still a bit unsure with town leanings on them but I am going to discuss some things with bert first before I give out a reads list. I would like to triangulate a bit with you guys and that hydra to see how it feels.
like how about we 3 discuss burnt toast I found his town read on us to come out of nowhere and pretty suspicious.
we need more love on the ossy wagon they are still scum
bert and I still need to go over our reads but I am sure pretty sure we will wind up with a town read on them even if nacho is not paying as much to me as I would like. DO YOU HEAR ME NACHO YOU ARE NOT PAYING AS MUCH ATTENTION TO ME AS I WOULD LIKE BUT I GOT YOUR PSYCHIC MESSAGES ARE YOU HAPPY???? CAN YOU PLZ PAY ATTENTION TO ME NOW!!!
re: penny
there are a couple of cog-dis pieces of penny's posts that bug me on a profound level and I am trying to remember what it was that she did that made me think town during that 1 point. I didn't see it in their iso so I am probably just going to have to go to sections of the game and try to find what is. I have gotten the feeling all along that this is 1 of those instances where you put some1 as a town read for really dumb reasons. however this post:
is pretty golden and gives me pause cos you are absolutely are right; meta shifts tend to be gradual and in a player's town rather than in scum. and you are right, there were key points where it looked she was genuinely trying to figure us out. so what do you think of this post:As town, penguin is one of those people that I default mislynch when I'm scum against her because she has the tendency to lurk so incredibly hard and miss out on early game when people are forming their all-important first impressions. She is eloquent, doesn't mind making big posts, though, so the way that she normally coasts as scum is by avoiding stepping on too many toes early game, lurk to mid game, and then post more regularly when major threats are dead and she's kept around because she's a major voice of reason. This penguin isn't that penguin. I realize there's not as many outward examples of aggression in her posts as there would be other people, but penguin's not an aggressive player. The fact that there are so many signs that she's trying to figure people out is a pretty great one, especially who she's hydraing with: if they were scum, Cabd would happily take the lead and no one would really question it because penguin's a lurker. But penguin very distinctly took the lead here and is guiding the game forward in a way I haven't seen her do in many town games, let alone a scum one.
I will tell cabd when he is scum and I am town he goes and sits in a corner and rocks back and forth sucking his thumb, praying for a quicklynch so he can get to the nightphase, hoping I won't notice him until I do and then he will claim jester and convince town that it is somehow a really great idea to lynch the game mod ending with me getting nked n1 oh who was that derp who was part of town who ignored my scumread on cabd what was their name againIn post 178, Medea the Alien wrote:I could answer this with citations, but I think I'll let mollie tell you what scum-me does with her in the picture early game.In post 175, Zdenek wrote:I think there is more of a problem with injustified town reads early in the game, since it's an easy way to buddy a player, and my impression is that doing that with Mollie could especially beneficial since she gets emotional.
what I like about cabd is how he immediately got close, not with the town read but with the wanting to iron out reads at the time that he did. I am still a bit unsure with town leanings on them but I am going to discuss some things with bert first before I give out a reads list. I would like to triangulate a bit with you guys and that hydra to see how it feels.
like how about we 3 discuss burnt toast I found his town read on us to come out of nowhere and pretty suspicious.
we need more love on the ossy wagon they are still scum
@ ampersand
if you want my hydra advice, and I totally understand it if you wouldn't cos this hydra is 1 of my less stable 1s since neither of us are very grounded and pretty all over the place altho this game we haven't been to bad but I am in 26 and hydras are about all I play in or try to these days so I have learned some things. create a spreadsheet on googledocs that you both have access to so that you can do quick reference checking and both can edit. you can colour code it and really tailor to you boths taste so that you guys will have a quick access to reference. when you have more time you can detail it and flesh it out. that way you will at least know of the general direction of your partner's thoughts. qts are fine for discussion but I have found that when you first hydra with a partner the spreadsheet is a better tool for easy communication with the visual stimulation.
larges can be overwhelming but they are a lot of fun. the volume will wind down as players are removed so it won't be like this forever.
if you want my hydra advice, and I totally understand it if you wouldn't cos this hydra is 1 of my less stable 1s since neither of us are very grounded and pretty all over the place altho this game we haven't been to bad but I am in 26 and hydras are about all I play in or try to these days so I have learned some things. create a spreadsheet on googledocs that you both have access to so that you can do quick reference checking and both can edit. you can colour code it and really tailor to you boths taste so that you guys will have a quick access to reference. when you have more time you can detail it and flesh it out. that way you will at least know of the general direction of your partner's thoughts. qts are fine for discussion but I have found that when you first hydra with a partner the spreadsheet is a better tool for easy communication with the visual stimulation.
larges can be overwhelming but they are a lot of fun. the volume will wind down as players are removed so it won't be like this forever.
why are you annoyed with burnt toast?In post 546, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey mollie, would love to discuss TT if you're around, seeing as I'm a bit too annoyed at him to be trusted to talk to him directly at this point. (Actually finishing up getting back to Mala on her points and waiting to calibrate with Cabd on some other intervening posts.)
--PA
I agree with all of that from the little I have been able to absorb from his posts. after I read them I can seem to remember a thing he said. I have a different angle in that we haven't engaged and I saw no discernible reason to have us as town with what he has so far since we have not engaged. at all. we are not an easy player to read unless I town it the fuck up in loads of mollie walls and emo meltdowns and start bossing every1 around and then whines when no1 does what I want them to. most players who don't know me tend to scum read me until I do this. I haven't done it this game, I have defo taken a backseat and it is strange how no1 but you has really made a thing about this.In post 550, Medea the Alien wrote:Because his posts focus on minor points, many of which aren't relevant to finding scum or town, and he apparently has zero perspective on his own play. Fact: if you lurk, you're not going to be influencing people. That's not a value-judgment, it's just the way it is. And for him to think I'm being rude in pointing out that someone with ten posts, half of which comment on nothing recent in the game state at the time they were made, is less immediately relevant than someone with four times that many posts, is juvenile.In post 548, bazinga wrote:why are you annoyed with burnt toast?In post 546, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey mollie, would love to discuss TT if you're around, seeing as I'm a bit too annoyed at him to be trusted to talk to him directly at this point. (Actually finishing up getting back to Mala on her points and waiting to calibrate with Cabd on some other intervening posts.)
--PA
As someone who normally lurks in early game, I'm very aware that there's a cost to being reticent, and pretending like it should be discounted is maddening.
Also, LMAO that he gets pissy about us having two null reads when he goes on to have four null reads, including the two players we put down as null.
--PA
and that brings me to wanting to explain why, to you that I haven't. this hydra is different in that there was specific purpose to it; bert was driving me insane in games and I lost it and told him I hated playing with him and it made him sad. so this hydra was the solution, to give us time and space of how to understand each other and communicate better. this hydra has about 4 or 5 completed games I think and most of the time I take the lead but I had told bert that I wanted him to start taking a stronger role and he did! so I took a step back and let him and now we are coming together I think thus in resulting in a more balanced hydra instead of having me dominate all of the time. I expected to be dealing with more suspicion tbh.
going off of our spreadsheet and skype:
ghatt things - bert likes falcon's passion. I haven't played much with falcon mebbe 1 or 2 games? anyways I don't really remember him we just haven't had a "moment" yet to where he really registers for me. nacho reads as pure town to me. <--- I would totally understand why you would be skeptical of this read. here is the thing with nacho; we are at the point in our mafia relationship where I would expect him to be making a meta shift in his scum play and he has! just not in how he deals with me but I went back last night and checked on some games and I see he
has
been actually trying to but while he knows probably every detail of how I scumhunt how I meta read people etc and I am swimming in a widening pool of paranoia that he is just going to lay this whammy on me. I rarely give out my meta reasons and on nacho pretty much never but I will say this - the progression of his read on you guys and his interactions with us (albeit he is not getting as close as I would like) point to more of a town nacho than scum nacho so I am going with that. body of work shows town motivation and not trying to "appear" town. so i am treating him as town for today.will post a more complete list later after I talk to bert just wanted to get that out there. that wagon is shit.
also I love ossy thing's and hanzo's discredit of the use of meta lulz.
I knew you guys were a couple!In post 551, Ampersand wrote:mollie - thank you for the suggestions, but we're living together, so ability to discuss the game isn't really an issue
It's more that we go about things quite differently - CES is happy to take the game lightly and just focus on the bits he thinks are interesting or useful; I feel the need to be more thorough and exhaustive, and I haven't had the time to do that, so I don't have much I can offer. I always find it fun when we play together in face-to-face games, so I think the root problem is just my difficulties with forum mafia; I would be struggling in this game regardless.
- Fenchurch
the purpose isn't so much as for communication as for organisational purposes. you can forget those little things your partner says that you are likely to forget. I have a couple of hydras where I talk to the person nearly every day for instance with nacho I will be rambling about how I need new period panties and then remember something I saw in a game and we will have a short exchange about it and then go back to talking about period panties. <---- do you think I am going to remember what was said later on 2 glasses of wine, kid stuff and then the nightly routine? nope. the spreadsheet is a visual aid to simplify how you process your partner's reads/feet in the game. dgb swiches her reads every 5 seconds but I always knew where she was at wrt her reads cos I had an easy visual aid and the colour coding is not only fun but it really helps. you don't have to get complicated and I have found that it just easier than going back and looking at what was said 3 weeks ago in a qt or on notes or on skype and more visually appealing when you are crunched for time.
I think it is from how I have watched you process information in skype is what made me thing think that it might be an efficient tool when working directly with some1 who shares your slot whom you are also together with. when I was dating majiffy it certainly helped us. it helps in the first few days of a game before you lose focus and forget about what you said or even thought.
also i use spreadsheets for nearly all of my games in larges I would fucking lose mind if I didn't. I used to keep a notebook but it wasn't efficient so I went back to spreadsheet use which I learned from 1 of my mentors a long time ago.
the biggest thing with ossy is a similar thing with hanzo; the discrediting of the process of the scumhunting tool (meta) with no real conviction on the read they are arguing about. it is just a generalised "I hate meta argument" and yet...I bet they both use meta? so goal is to discredit the process in order to for the lose confidence on the meta read on the player they were giving it but not to attack/defend the read itself. <----- scum motivation right here. a town player would be more likely to back up the discrediting with a "you are wrong, they are doing x which is objectively scummy fuck your meta read they are scum!" altho I think ossy thing was actually trying to defend himself. it is the lack of commitment to what they intend to with the attainment of that goal, it leaving options while trying to lynch the person who is putting forth the meta argument, that makes it look so scummy.In post 554, Malakittens wrote:I'm actually having trouble reading the Ossy hydra. (Ugh Mollie your nicknames are catchy ._.)
I legit don't know why, but every time I read a post it does nothing. No gut feel, just a numb feeling.
As for Amer. I didn't like the early posts (well vote on Mina), but the more French posts the more I'm really thinking that hydra as a whole is town. I do agree that one of the post reads frustrated townie, I had the same feel reading it.
first i find this an interesting thing for you to be asking cos I wonder how much stock and what you plan to do with the infIn post 561, chamber wrote:Is Mollie especially good at reading nacho? If so, how good, what sample size?In post 560, notscience wrote:Plus if it doesn't have the mollie seal of approval it's not worth my time
in probably about 70 games I have only mislynched twice and have never really been snowed by him. my confidence took a recent beating so i spent a good amount of time earlier in the day isoing him to see what he was talking about with penny cos I was in camp zden, I simply wasn't seeing it. when I say "this is a meta read" I am not talking about "oh this player does this as x when they are this alignment " even tho I used to sometimes throw something out just so I didn't have to give too much of my meta on them away.
I am talking about how a person obtains and processes information and whether or not it is internally consistent with how intrinsic to the way in which they reason things out. it was the piece about gradual meta changes. it isn't just that it is correct cos scum can make correct arguments too it was the timing, the choice of phrasing and the way that it was stacking up against the other info that the hydra was obtaining. "meta changes are gradual" reeks of eau de fery and nacho has an active hydra with her. nacho has a tendency to wear his hydra partner's persona for a bit, so that he can learn new things and get a better understanding of the person he is hydra-ing with. why? cos nacho loves people and mafia provides a fun (lol) medium for that. this is consistent with nacho's global view on life, his pursuits in school and his basic approach to people. we have spent literally hours talking about this. and when I say hours I mean like 6 or 4 or 5 at a time usually no less than 1. and we talk a lot about mafia, theories, players and our journey and current areas we are trying to improve.
that he was unconsciously channeling fery for a minute is more consistent with him being town, as scum he would not be doing that t skew or obfuscate a read. he says he is being transparent and open and he is about HOW HE IS OBTAINING HIS INFO and he is. <-- this is a strong tell in that it takes a tremendous about of effort to keep up and as town it would be more natural for him to default to fery thinking than if he was scum cos fery hates playing scum and nacho is the better scum player but there are still some things that fery could teach him about townplay I think if she hasn't already. he is unconsciously pulling from a strong typical town-oriented player in order to orient himself in the game. <---- if nacho were scum I think he would be relying on his own devices or pull from a strong scum player that he admires, again I think a lot of this is unconscious. that he did this in a loose way doesn't seem like he did it to tailor his game to cabd and I and makes me think he is town.
of course I could I be wrong, there is always that possibility that I am being fooled blah blah but nacho knows how close I like to keep him in games and that is not an easy thing to keep up under the type of scrutiny that he will be subjected to it is much easier to keep a distance and wait for the night round to nk me. I guess I feel similar about nacho to how you feel about ces except I am actually picking up towntells.
no offense takenIn post 583, chamber wrote:I asked notscience over you for a reason. I don't trust your ability to self evaluate accurately. (nothing personal, I think the same of nearly everyone in this game).In post 568, bazinga wrote:first i find this an interesting thing for you to be asking cos I wonder how much stock and what you plan to do with the infIn post 561, chamber wrote:Is Mollie especially good at reading nacho? If so, how good, what sample size?In post 560, notscience wrote:Plus if it doesn't have the mollie seal of approval it's not worth my time
I don't really trust my own during a game either that is the main reason I am so all over the place it is later where the self-evaluation happens but that is 1 of the most interesting thing about ms is that the self-evaluation process is not consecutive as it is in non-niche sites, they usually have only 1 game going on at a time and the 1s I played on had shorter deadlines so meta shifts are easier to see whereas on ms the shifts seem to vary from glacier speed to midgame turbocharge cos of the length of the games and the opportunity to play in multiple games at once. <---- I am actually working with this aspect of site meta, scaling back games and paying more attention to this so that I can work that piece of my play cos tbh I think my meta reads are a bit weak with dynamic continuity wrt players I am unfamiliar with and fuck players I am familiar with too. I am at that place where I am wanting to tighten up my game.
I can't wait to synch up with bert.
In post 585, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Bazinga,I have been trying to figure out a way to refute meta arguments without simply discarding it as useless meta.The reason is because I do not think meta is 100% useless for some players. I have seen players catch scum with meta. I know that I cannot use meta, therefore, it is useless to me. I stay away from all things meta normally.
sometimes it is easier for me too, I am with you, it entirely depends on the player thoAdditionally, objectively scummy actions and behavior are easier for me to detect without "meta vision".
right there is where we are intersecting in our thinking. different approaches but it was how he applied his meta read to penny is what makes me lean town. I think we are looking at the game differently because our approach to the player is different.Finally, I have not attacked or defended a read based on meta. I ignored them and in some cases agreed with them. I think that you just attempted to make me out to appear to have scum motivation because i do not use meta. As if it is some kind of basis in which i would discredit reads.In fact I was more than willing to work with the Nacho head of Ghatokaca's meta based Malakittens reads because he was able to apply it to the gameand explain it in a way that was understandable.
town can misrep too, I do it all of the time largely on accident but sometimes on purpose in order to solidify a read by judging a person's reactions however this was not the case. you were reading to me at the time like you were whining about meta and dismissing it.Overall I think the quoted passage was a subtle misrepresentation of me. I find that to be scum motivated. I will not be surprised when you start pushing for my lynch.
if you thought I was going to get weird on you, you are wrong. ty <3
Tell me more, tell me more!In post 608, Mina wrote:Because CES is reminding me a lot of scum-CES.
u r soooooo right [yuck]In post 608, Mina wrote:Nacho-scum in particular looooooves bussing
why should we lynch the sea god :C in one sentence please the jeopardy theme song begins.....In post 609, Ampersand wrote:More votes for Poseidon, please. We all remember how unfairly he treated Odysseus.
Really? Please go on, cos I think I missed this and now I'm curiousIn post 601, BROseidon wrote:Given Mala's overreaction to Hanzo's RVS post, Mala-scum implies hydra buddies.
- Bert
if you think he was holier than fuck in xeno you should have seen him anything goesIn post 590, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey mollie remember in Xenogears when we mislynched Bro? And how he was super duper ragerific and "hollier than thou" about it with a burning passion?
yep. and I think you put it pretty well. but the thing that is how he is going about his reads and what they are. bro has 1 of the best scumdar's onsite like he blows me away but not a lot of people are aware of it so while he might be able to get away with shitty amongst other players he can't get away with that with me. I know how good he is.Because I see none of that and instead a very hollow attempt at replicating it while trying to keep low. And penguin agrees that he does that in games while being mislynched other than Xeno, too.
(For those of you that were not privy to that game, take his ISO starting here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5381749 )
Like where's his fervor that we're misreading him? Where's the "I'm gonna take this game by the balls and do shit" mode? It's nowhere to be found. You see what I mean?
like his insistence that there is scum in the hydras and yet he keeps changing up who it is. like I think we were scum first and then ghat things and you guys too andd so while we are poeing each other out as possible scum he is left with ossy things and amper people which is pretty weird. cos that is all that is left. I think he was wking hanzo's wanting to go after hydras (lean hanzo town with it) and has taken up hanzo's cause with "scum must be in the hydras". his case on mala seems odd to me BUT and this is a big but, the whole dynamic between the 2 reminds me of xeno2 where bro was town and mala was scum. however, body of work points more to facsimile of that game rather than a duplication.
so yeah I lean scum on bro
BERT plz get on skype so we can get these reads out plz!!
get the fuck out of my head mina. I thought the same thing.In post 608, Mina wrote:Sorry, I've been feeling unmotivated lately. And the players in my scum pool have been posting content-dense walls that take a lot of effort to evaluate. I kind of like penguin's recent posting, although I'm just being kind of lazy right now and taking people's word that she'd be less likely to play the game as scum.
Hey, Fenchurch, how differently would you have played this if you were scum? Because CES is reminding me a lot of scum-CES.And frankly, you haven't done much more than discuss your playstyle and complain about your trouble hydraing and getting reads--you're just doing it in a way that looks sincere and deer-in-headlights-ish. Am I underestimating your acting skills? Could you have talked about most of this stuff as scum, since they're safe topics?
I have an unpopular Mafia theory that actually holds out most of the time. Scum are much more likely to passionately white-knight townies than partners under heat (scumbuddy defences tend to be a lot more subtle and indirect). Nacho-scum in particular looooooves bussing (:evil:).In post 534, ToastyToast wrote:Why do you think this makes them less likely to be scum together?
I think the emotion and frustration is very genuine but it can easily come from scum and I am honestly leaning that way.
don't hurt don't touch pile they are town leave them alone:
ghat things
medeas
mina <--- this is nothing like her game in anything goes and more like the sheer paranoia whirlwind I saw in f2f. yes yes I know the 2 mediums are different but I think I have insight into how she is obtaining and processing her information and this is more consistent with how she approaches the game in general as town so I am saying strong town.
malakittens
not science
leaning town:
zden - he had a moment of pure paranoia that was instantaneous yet at the same time trying to figure out if he needed to recalibrate. I find that hard to fake especially when it was in real time.
hanzo - if bro flips scum then hanzo is town town town. we already had him as derpy town to begin with but I can't follow his narrative at all but the paranoid overlays make me think just misguided town. the 1 thing incredibly funny and poetically ironic was when he put zden as strong town for not buddying anybody but then....proceeds to buddy zden. that is the kind of thing I default scumread but again if bro flips scum then hanzo is surely town.
unsure need to sort:
burnt toast - his last post looked like pure filler and some1 who is being deliberately obtuse to avoid close scrutiny. I lean scummy but I don't know him which is why I was asking for medeas and ghat things input.
chamber - I don't know. we have radically different approaches to the game and well, life. so I am not going to have an easy time reading him ever cos I don't understand him. HOWEVER, his crankiness reminds me of him as scum and when he said, "I'm obviously town" gave me the same gut twinge bad feeling when he did it twice in f2f games, once as indie and once as scum.
these players are making my scumdar go boom shakka boom:
ossy things
amper people - I reached out to fenny and she shut down <--- personal mollie tell right there. scum never let me get close to them, they don't let me in would like me to list all of the games where this has happened. it is a long list with really good players like empire, regfan, mastina, etc.
bro
who did I miss
ghats, medeas how does this list look to you?
Mollie believes the way notscience has reached out to her has led to her getting a solid townread on notty. There are probably other reasons too, and I'm sure she will mention them ASAP. In my eyes, he has been pretty null. However, I was biased in that notty hasn't really reached out to me at all. That being said, I think he is not putting forth the kind of productiveness in his reads that I expect from him as town. The way D1 is playing out, his reads seem to revolve around what other people's opinions and what they are thinking, as evidenced by asking a specific few players for input about different reads, but not doing much elsewhere. But yes, I believe in Mollie's read and am confident in her.In post 649, Medea the Alien wrote:mollie/bazinga, I basically like all your untouchable reads (Mina was bugging me in her fadeout, but I like that she challenged BRO's read on her as outdated) except notscience. What's he done to merit it? (if you've explained, a link is fine)
- Bert
EBWOP: I also like Mollie's reads, which I spoke to her about privately. Especially the Medea (via penguin's play) and Ghato (via Falcon's play) townreads. Mina is someone I'm probably underestimating, but I believe she has been quite transparent - the angles she is taking and how she is elaborating seems genuine overall.
well this certainly seems like the know it all holier than thou attitude and belligerent bro that I 4 1 have come to love
I compared his iso from sabotage to this one and there was a lot more attitude in this game than I thought and next to none in sabotage.
I am not going to be lynching bro today.
and I still haven't gotten what I needed from nacho.
and I am wondering why he did not do a harder job of defending bro. my nightmare scumteam is mala/ghatts/medeas or notty and they are all sitting in my shiny town pile.
this was a bad reaction to our reads listIn post 645, Hanzo_5 wrote:Lurk
this and his next post are good reactions. in our list swap toasty with hanzoIn post 646, ToastyToast wrote:@Bazinga: I didn't understand you post and wanted clarification, that isn't filler.
this was a good reaction. to answer your question, bro is a smart scum player and I don't see him retardedly wking a scummate over something that is kinda dumb without giving some sort of a read. so that would make me think hanzo town if bro was scum. if bro were to flip town I would probably go back to scum reading hanzo hence why I have switched him up in our list.In post 648, notscience wrote:Can you explain why pleaseIn post 642, bazinga wrote:hanzo - if bro flips scum then hanzo is town town town. we already had him as derpy town to begin with but I can't follow his narrative at all but the paranoid overlays make me think just misguided town. the 1 thing incredibly funny and poetically ironic was when he put zden as strong town for not buddying anybody but then....proceeds to buddy zden. that is the kind of thing I default scumread but again if bro flips scum then hanzo is surely town.
medeas #648 seems like penny really believes what she is pushing except that after the isos of this game to this 1 (check out the iso):
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=32581
like compare these 2 responses to me calling him scum;
sabotage:
here:In post 957, BROseidon wrote:I keep the site logged in on my phone and comp while I'm doing other things...In post 956, Herself wrote:and bro was online. I saw him a couple of times so he was around when the shit was hitting the fan. I have 2 completed games with bro there is a world of difference in his scumhunting like he is really good at it not this milquetoast watered down version. he is scum.
but then he says things like this:
so I guess according to bro this is a null tell for him and I should not be wasting my time defending him or call him town cos he is just going to self-meta argue with me over it!In post 658, BROseidon wrote:Oh wait, that was penguin.
penguin, ask Cabd about 167. That was probably one of my most frustrating games. And I was scum.
bro has shown the self-righteous angsty holier than tho attitude earlier in the game that I kind of tuned out for a bit cos I was so focused on nacho. I just know that I am very unsure about him, so far what I have seen from bro's scumgame is mr. congeniality and he has not been like that at all this game. he is pushing unpopular points and he isn't trying to stay under the radar. fuck yeah I am leaning unsure mebbe town bro at this point.
so no bro lynch support from us.
@ bro
I am sorry it took me a bit to iso you and do a comparison to really make sure that I accurate with my read on you. I was going off of memory and tbh I could not remember that much and thought you hadn't done anything besides push a dumb point but now I can see a bit where you are coming from and the comparison of mala to mastina really struck home. not because of the similarity of the 2 but I can see where your push is coming from a place of honest conviction. or at least that is what it seems.
what is missing from this game in insp3ct0r bro1 and a definitive list of your reads right now. also you are not interacting with me directly.
and question if you unstuck yourself from mala for a minute who would you be looking at?
whenever you start to pull this crap I default to scumreading you, you know this right? it seems like you have not posted anything for days and this is what and how you choose to respond to? lol, noIn post 656, Malakittens wrote:Please, please tell me you are kidding in 651 Mollie. Please. You are seriously going to town read someone for sayin 'oh fuck off' after you just called him out for not acting the same way.
that was a bad post.
anyways I am taking a step back for a bit and letting things percolate. I am waiting for nacho cos I am still hair-triggered paranoid about him and we did not get the warm embrace that we had hoped for and wtf f16 gets the heat turned off of him and then goes mia. I am waiting to ghatty things whichever head is around.
also before anybody goes ARRRRRGGGGHHHH YOU ARE CHANGING YOUR READS YOU MUST BE SCUM YOU ARE BEING INCONSISTENT ARRRRRGGGHHH YOU BACKPEDALING ARRRRRGGGHHHH YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF ARRRRGGHHH!!!!
this is how I stabalise my reads; I look at the game from different angles and from different players POV. my reads are fluid but this is how I navigate the game.
beep boopIn post 670, chamber wrote:Who were you actually worried would say this? Why were you worried they would say this? Does anyone think changing reads is a scum tell? Doing it convincingly is a town tell. So confused.In post 668, bazinga wrote:also before anybody goes ARRRRRGGGGHHHH YOU ARE CHANGING YOUR READS YOU MUST BE SCUM YOU ARE BEING INCONSISTENT ARRRRRGGGHHH YOU BACKPEDALING ARRRRRGGGHHHH YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF ARRRRGGHHH!!!!
that is me trying to be humourously facetious and apparently failing. I don't think any1 is gonna say that in this game except mebbe hanzoderporscumz it isn't an issue in this game I am merely pointing out that a lot of players would consider this a dyed in the wool scumtell when it isn't
I am not going after her
I kinda just feel this is full of excuses for 'shutting down.' Not saying that tone betrays alignment, but it feels like you haven't been trying to commit yourself with your reads.In post 654, Ampersand wrote:It's a long time since I've been scum on the forums and besides, there's so much that's different in this game to others I've played. Maybe I'd have been less keen to post solo, but I don't know. I'm aware I haven't been providing anywhere near as much content as I'd like, and that is simply due to time constraints. I've been posting my explanations for this because I figure it's better to give that than nothing at all.
what gives you the idea that defending mala so much is something you should be doing?In post 660, Zdenek wrote:This is unbelievable. To believe this you would have to think that this put Mala under pressure, and you already mocked that this vote would put Bazinga under pressure.
How is it a sensible argument that "it is strange to try to meta me when you haven't played with me as scum?" Meta doesn't require personal experience.In post 666, ToastyToast wrote:But you've also never played with me as scum, so it again feels strange to try to meta me.
yeah but turning into kuribo is kinda distracting to town...In post 659, BROseidon wrote:I've been kind of a dick all game.
Apparently I have to turn into kuribo for people to see it, though.
yo who do you think is the most informative lynch for today, for 200, Alex?In post 665, notscience wrote:IM SORRY BERT ILL REACH OUT TO YOU TOO
You too, I'm just looking for if you actually state stances and stuff. Who is today's lynch, and why. One answer pleaseIn post 666, ToastyToast wrote:I write as I read, and put down whatever comes to mind. So I actually do expect people to answer my questions. I really don't care if you think its "outdated." That's irrelevant. Its outdated because where I was in the game is different than where everyone else was.
yes it's easy to be logical about theories and stuff, and unfortunately some analysis-based players can be too full of analysis rather than persuasion on things that matter. In this case, though, I feel this discussion about meta was relevant due to people discrediting meta arguments being brought forth - lack of trust, etc.In post 542, chamber wrote:Like this. Who the fuck cares? Its transparent but that's because its mafia theory not game relevant.
Will continue to look into this game and sync up
Bert
probably the simplest solution to that is to not ask me any question?In post 690, chamber wrote:Bert, we should interact more. Interacting with your other half is too hard.
GET THE FUCK OUTTA MY HEAD HANZO!!!In post 694, Hanzo_5 wrote:So Bazinga, are you scum reading Ghatokaca yet?
I will be able to explain as to why I wanted to give them room hopefully soon. but yeah
she pulls the aTe as scum or town. by poe, I am leaning town on her.In post 692, Mina wrote:Am I underestimating Malakittens' scum play? Was something about that post a sign of guilt for her?In post 668, bazinga wrote:whenever you start to pull this crap I default to scumreading you, you know this right? it seems like you have not posted anything for days and this is what and how you choose to respond to? lol, no
that was a bad post.
(I know you said you still weren't going after her, but I just want to be 100% sure.)
fenny's posts are not giving me the same warm fuzzies as they are you. I think they are alignment neutral so far.
I am still not getting what I need from bro and I am still unimpressed with the level of scumhunting from him.
UNVOTE: UNVOTE:
gonna talk some more with bert
In post 698, Hanzo_5 wrote:I dont see mollie bussing nacho as a scum team, but i sure do find it odd that nacho is not trying to interact with mollie and not trying to lynch the slot shes in.
"im town reading her but, i need to not interact with the people i think is on my team, esp. the ones who can read me very well"
I feel like hes doing something along those lines.
just when I think I am making progress with you...
hydra dissonance is not a scumtell unless the summit of their posting is focused on that and you can't remember anything else that they have said. ces's interjections have a placating tone of sorts but hey I don't want to lynch them cos they are the only 1s that I can be sure of that does not have a seekrit wc to drive us crazy other than mebbe youIn post 703, Mina wrote:Hanzo, why did you unvote Malakittens instead of placing it on someone else?
bazinga, I'm admittedly gullible. But I like that Fenchurch is trying to be transparent and get her thought process out there even if she doesn't have strong reads or feels uncomfortable for playstyle reasons. Although some of the hydra theory talk is null, I also feel like if Ampersand were scum, they'd be more...cohesive? Sure, since they live together, it'd be easy for them to manufacture fake misunderstandings (or for CES to coach Fenchurch through posts as scum), but I feel like they'd have focused their energy on manufacturing consistent reads and displays of *~SCUMHUNTING~* instead. It's enough for D1, anyway.
I don't have a good track record for reading mala. she has snuck past me as scum and I have ruthlessly trolleytracked on her to the point of meltdown. who IS good at reading mala is bro and he is scumreading her and I actually get what he is saying but what doesn't work is that we are scumreading him too. all the hydras but us are potential scum? noAnd dammit, I was hoping you were more confident on Malakittens. Maybe I should reread her to see if I'm being hoodwinked, or if I can continue to scumread all the people tunneling on her for wacky reasons.
bro is pretty good at narrowing down the scumteam and he isn't doing it here.
Also would be interested in hearing in what caused the major shift on Nacho (from top townread to top scumread?), since that's a slot I haven't paid enough attention.
it was a coin toss between ghatty things and bro, both are looking pretty scummy. votes are stalled, game needs momentum or a fresh direction. ghatty things has been online hasn't posted and did not respond to the meta case and the embrace from our reach out held all the warmth of a corpse. we are still trying to work things out but we felt this was the best thing to do for now. and where did f16 go?In post 713, notscience wrote:molliebert why
our list of people to sort looks like this:
ghatty things
bro
amper people
ossie things
chamber gives bert the heebiejeebies and I am unsure but the other 4 are a bigger priority it seems like. what do you guys think?
^ townIn post 720, notscience wrote:I'd put him at L-1 but I'd rather not see a derphammer
wrt bold: that is why we are scumreading him! have you been reading my posts?In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5684660#p5684660]post 727[/url], Fenchurch wrote:Spoke to CES on the phone a short while ago. chamber: he wanted me to tell you to stop being silly.
Mina's surprise/disbelief in #706 affirms my townread on her (which had waned a bit in between). I wish I could be as confident oneveryoneanyone else.
I thought mollie-bazinga seemed pretty town-ish from her post about BRO (#667), because, effort. Although I tend to disagree with her overall conclusion -I think the quality of BRO's reads and playis probably more pertinent to his alignment than his showing emotion (or lack of).
Still think Hanzo is scum; maybe one day I'll get around to writing about why.
Going to meet CES at the bus station now, will catch up again tomorrow!
I think mala is town.In post 726, Mina wrote:Like, I vaguely remember really minor things about Mala that pinged me, but I'd be completely talking out of my ass to mention them. If I don't end up locking this townread in, I'll get back to you, notscience.
I kinda think bro is projecting.
yeah, meta has its advantages and downfalls...In post 735, chamber wrote:I'd rather not think anyone is incapable of anything. Her likely being less out going/confident as scum doesn't mean shes incapable of ever being confident/outgoing as scum. I'm pretty incapable of keeping up confidence as scum, yet I can still fake it for short periods.
you haven't been trolling but you have been nitpicky sometimes.In post 708, chamber wrote:I don't feel like I've made a single outright trolling comment this game. Certainly some misleading or unclear ones, but anything I've stated clearly I've meant.
what would you like to talk about? who has been misrepping you badly or being the most strange in your opinionIn post 690, chamber wrote:Bert, we should interact more. Interacting with your other half is too hard.
soz i have gotten off to a real slow start , gotta stop taking for granted that mollie has got this under control, and do my thing too yeah but her thinking/style is rubbing off n contagious as weird as that sounds LOL
I suppose.In post 739, chamber wrote:I've cared about nuance, you may think of them as irrelevant nuances, and thus that I'm nitpicking, but what better a place to catch someone than in details they write off?
Uhh...you're letting UT off the hook for "actually showing?" Not only has he like disappeared for the past couple of days, but do you have past game examples of what you're talking about? My past meta doesn't line up with what you're saying.In post 702, Mina wrote:UT is actually showing, like, occasional sparks of life. Maybe I'm really underestimating his scum play...but I just remember it being even more horrendous than this.
What do you make of Mala's reacting to pressure? I know we show worries about Mala being crafty mafia. She seems to be so concerned with being found scummy (the wagon)In post 703, Mina wrote:And dammit, I was hoping you were more confident on Malakittens. Maybe I should reread her to see if I'm being hoodwinked, or if I can continue to scumread all the people tunneling on her for wacky reasons.
At least you're not acting surprised about us considering you as scum. You're actually considering what we are gonna say.In post 731, Ghatokaca wrote:I haven't been posting because Nacho and I are trying to compile a reads-list so we could work that out with you. This was mostly in response to your wanting to work with us. Sorry about disappearing but I actually haven't. I am re-reading the game and offering thoughts to Nacho and refining our reads so we could come up with something good. I missed the meta-case you expected us to respond to. Can you point me to it?
Anddddddd this is exactly what I have been thinking. Toasty doesn't seem to feel strongly about the questions/observations he brings forth, and being "behind" and bringing up points from the distant past allows Toasty to compare/contrast the points he is writing with what has already been said. It's like Toasty's posts are an attempt to increase activity and not much more.In post 649, Medea the Alien wrote:What sets me off about your catch-up posts is that you address outdated issues to the players in question. It's the difference between noting that a post is scummy, or thinking it might be relevant, versus telling Ampersand to stop being so unhelpful re: post #67 in your post #255. I get having to catch up, having done it as a replacement and a lagging player,but the way you go about it in places looks like busy work, and I don't get the sense that you actually expect people to address every question you raise.Which begs the question of why you're asking them.
UNVOTE: UNVOTE:
the vote didn't do what I had hoped and I know nacho is IRL busy but this will only hold off for so long
@ f16 of ghatty things
just because you are waiting on nacho doesn't mean you can't still scumhunt. right now it kind of looks like you are trying to curl into the woodworks and hope nobody notices you now that the heat has been turned off.
the vote didn't do what I had hoped and I know nacho is IRL busy but this will only hold off for so long
@ f16 of ghatty things
just because you are waiting on nacho doesn't mean you can't still scumhunt. right now it kind of looks like you are trying to curl into the woodworks and hope nobody notices you now that the heat has been turned off.
In post 781, pirate mollie wrote:f16 why did you not look at sabotage the game I linked for bro's scum meta?
yes, exactly what I said in my big long post I madeIn post 783, Ghatokaca wrote:I haven't gotten around to it yet. I knew Anything Goes was quite an eventful game so that was on my list of games to read. I'll read through Sabotage as well. It looks interesting. Was there anything you wanted me to keep an eye out for?
~ F-16
In post 805, pirate mollie wrote:yesIn post 800, Mina wrote:I'm serious. I want an answer to this.In post 789, Mina wrote:bazinga, did you read F-16's entire post when you voted for them, or just the paragraph about BROseidon?
minaIn post 808, Mina wrote:mollie, I'm getting whiplash right now.
If you read that post, then I find the meta accusation pretty unfair, considering he provided meta in exhaustive detail for several players. I mean, look at me. I've promised to meta at least three people this game and not bothered to do any of it And yet you voted him for missingonegame out of ten? That reads list was incredibly in-depth (I was tempted to skim it, but I'm glad I didn't!), and showed more nuance, attention to detail, and deliberation than something like Medea's effort-post.
mina
mina
listen to me mina. do you know what bothers me so much about that particular read? is that f16 is comparing 2 of bros town games to this 1 and saying he is scummy while ignoring the link to scumbro itt. that meta read was shit, there was no time and no effort put in it and it is so fucking surface that it isn't even funny!
ghatty things are not trying to sort bro out
. <----- they really aren't and it should be pretty obvious! f16 should giddy and giggling at the idea of going into an in depth meta analysis on bro cos oh I dunno, I have a good amount of experience with him when he has been both alignments? he isn't. my town read on medeas is plummeting for the same reason and I think ghatty things might have been wking a scummate which nacho will do if he thinks his scummate is a good player and will pull their weight. like medeas has not bothered to get back with me on my counter to their argument. but I don't know, I am waffling on them pretty hard too.so stop and think about it; there is evidence of scumbro itt and I can link the original xeno game too where he went on to win for his team but ghatty things does not seem to be interested in what scumbro looks like he just wants to call him scummy based off of 2 town games. <---- oh hell no.
the reason you are having whiplash cos I recently had my confidence shaken to its core when I mislynched nacho/desp in too many heads. I asked gib (gib is not a player on this site, nacho and I know him from others but he and I have had extensive meta discussions about nacho) to take a look at the game and show me where I misstepped. first he wanted the highlights and when I told him that nacho had voted me and put me at L2 he was like, "lol how does nacho not know to not do that with you" and then he read it and said, "your retarded" cos it was obvious as fuck that nacho was town. but I get like that with my nearest and dearest, if they misread me that bad I tend to scumread them and it is very hard to knock me out of it.
so we (bazinga) mislynched him in a fantastically, spectacularly way and every1 got pissed at me cos I was wrong. I have only mislynched him
twice
in like a ridiculous amount of games but it doesn't matter cos 1 time I was wrong, lol. so we are going to waffle on them. and waffle and waffle and more waffle. even after that terrible list (and there were other things in there other than the meta read on bro) I am still waffling. nacho feels wrong in this game and he was mr mchedgeville on his read on burnt toast but I am still waffling. I
want
them to be town but I am just not feeling it and I feel like I have been pretty patient. so there you go.
I must have missed the part in your shitty discredit of me where you wanted me to work with you! I don't remember what your questions were I will say this I ignore dumb questions from a player who is townreading me cos there is so much to respond to and if you already have determined our alignment then what is the purpose of the questions?In post 835, Malakittens wrote:Mollie, you tend to work with your town reads why aren't you with me? I asked questions and got no answers. I want you to talk to me about your nacho and BRO read more in depth.
also, you have been wrong about players
countless
times mala and I don't automatically dismiss your reads, I still take what you say into consideration but it sounds like you have already made up your mind about bro and ghatty things. I am so tired of people holding me to a different standard than they hold themselves or fuck even other players. dgb, majiffy, nacho and thorella can mislynch town in game after game but if I am wrong once I get to hear about it for the next 10 games like I am still hearing about pikman.when I wrote the meta case I told bert that I knew it was a stretch but I wanted to buy you guys time. well you guys have had time and I am still not feeling itIn post 829, Ghatokaca wrote:I didn't respond to your meta case because I felt it was a case that was overcompensating because of Too Many Heads. I told Falcon that I expected you to waffle on us a bit more than you usually did because of your misread on me in that game, and I expected your read on us to be formed after a trial by fire after that game. This was a talk that would have to happen eventually, but before wasn't exactly the right time.In post 717, bazinga wrote: it was a coin toss between ghatty things and bro, both are looking pretty scummy. votes are stalled, game needs momentum or a fresh direction. ghatty things has been online hasn't posted and did not respond to the meta case and the embrace from our reach out held all the warmth of a corpse. we are still trying to work things out but we felt this was the best thing to do for now. and where did f16 go?
I don't think it is fundamentally flawed at all but then I use the same method so mebbe I am biasedIn post 860, chamber wrote:Eh, I feel compelled to tell you that your approach is fundamentally flawed, but I'm too lazy to argue it. Not an interesting response regardless.In post 859, Ghatokaca wrote:Because the primary basis of my scumhunting is POE. I couldn't disagree more with your statement. I spend much more time focussing on finding town, and then narrowing down the pool to possible scum.
my arteries are not impressed. and I have been engaging him I am trying to figure out how you can come up with a player being scummy based on 2 town games and somehow manage to ignore their scum 1s. the game is less than 50 pages. he hasn't gotten back to me as to whether or not he has even LOOKED at it so the discussion to be had is dangling from you guyz end not ours.In post 871, Ghatokaca wrote: F-16 not includinganya BRO scumgame doesn't mean that he's not trying to sort BRO out at all; it shows that he's making a giant reads list and doing a fuck ton of reading and still coming up with artery impressive piece of work that you haven't been engaging at all.
My Toasty read is a weak read based on a play style I don't understand and a few genuine points amongst a sea of weirdness, and your read on him has been formed the exact same way. What am I ignoring that I'm missing in my Toasty read?
jesus fucking christ with all of the "meta diving" flying around and with bro in the lead not 1 player is actually doing any authentic meta diving! ftr THIS is why I am getting super cranky
what are you missing about toasty? giving an actual read for starters unless after your ginormous hedge you have decided to go with your partner's scumread?
In post 868, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:are yall bitches chinese, you're obsessed with walls
love our ghat vote
awfulIn post 869, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:oh and the only thing I've read in the last ~10 pages that was important was BRO towntelling like a boss
I feel like you are overstating your experience as mislynch bait, for lack of a better phrase.In post 891, Malakittens wrote:It's proven no matter how right or wrong I'm on a player I will always be mislynch bait.
Bingo. A great point cos I need to keep my focus on Mina despite her start since it was all easily faked if scum.In post 888, Ghatokaca wrote:I later read through Marketplace III and saw you and Faraday attacking Lord Mhork and Tammy initially which looked townish on first glance which added to my uncertainty.
it seemed like you were trying to show that you researched each player (by how much was contained in each read) equally extensively.In post 888, Ghatokaca wrote:I'll admit my BRO read was probably the one I put in the least amount of effort. It was the last read I was doing while being asked for my reads list and I didn't spend as much time on it as the others. I spend more time trying to consolidate townreads as opposed to making cases on scumreads because it is more important for me to get my POE right and not townread scum.
I also don't see how what you said about me isn't easily faked by me. That's not how I expected you to read me. It's like you were putting too much work into justifying easy reads.
Hi Penny hi.
have a seat
you aren't even paying attention to the game are you?
LIKE ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?????In post 899, Medea the Alien wrote:F-16, in your metadive, did you find any scum-BRO games where he got lynched?
--PA
F16 HAS NOT EVEN READ 1 SCUM GAME OF BROS MUCH LESS FOUND 1 WHERE HE WAS LYNCHED AND WHAT A WEIRD QUESTION TO ASK AS IF BROS GETTING LYNCHED HAS ANY BEARING WHATSOEVER
WE THINK SCUMZORZ ARE GHATTY THINGS, MEDEAS AND WE ARE LEANING ON BRO FOR THE THIRD
ALTHO OSSY THINGS LOOKS PRETTY BAD TOO!!!
Well, you kinda cast suspicion on yourself by saying you're mislynch bait often. Yes, it must be frustrating, but I don't understand why it would be your priority to bring up when there is no sign of you being mislynched anytime soon.In post 896, Malakittens wrote:Actually I am not because I'm starting to feel lately that I am mislynch bait and have zero clue how to get rid of this feeling. Would you like me to show you how many times in the past games I have been lynched as town in LyLo in comparison to be NK'd or being endgamed.
experienced, pretty good at scum.In post 882, Mina wrote:Zdenek, I'd classify Ghatokaca as nulltown, since I don't know how strong F-16 is as scum.
your latest odd behavior (last few fluff posts) make me seriously wonder if you are the type of player who lurks out of troubleIn post 881, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:no u
I am not sold by this post. You're going to have to talk more about them eventuallyIn post 834, Ampersand wrote:Lynch Poseidon Today; lynch UTlurkerscumhydra Tomorrow; win by PoE.
Everything else is irrelevant.
Have you investigated into their past to see if this is actually the case with their meta?In post 842, Malakittens wrote:I can see TBONE/UT hydra being scum on the base of activity, but I feel like neither have been caring or connected to this game.
This is quite interesting. So he wriggled his way out of suspicion by deathtunneling you? I see...In post 842, Malakittens wrote:I felt he was more in tunnelvision with me there and I got clouded with him and felt he could be scum because he was attacking me, but then switched to the conf scum and it looked like an "Oh shit last min bus" along with the fact he deathtunneled and wouldn't let me breathe.
join the club, buddyIn post 816, chamber wrote:I've been reading along but it takes a while to process past the surface level
Yessir, in select circumstances.In post 904, chamber wrote:Do you think it reflects poorly on those who drew conclusions more quickly than us?
What do you think of his interactions with you so far? Trying to figure out why we are seeing things so differently hereIn post 899, Medea the Alien wrote:I feel like if BRO were town, his lynch would actually be easier than it has been.
I'll mention past experiences in a few minutes. First things first...you've been so forthright with us in this game, appealing to us early and often like we are town, and I don't see any paranoia from you about our play so far. Are we just "very very very town?" This doesn't make sense. No amount of foresight could have predicted your play in this game thus far.In post 899, Medea the Alien wrote:He's not the hardest mislynch target around, yet he can have good reads, which means scum should want him dead if he's not one of them, especially when they can blame town for it later.
Do you think he's shutting down?In post 899, Medea the Alien wrote:Mollie/bazinga, please consider how disjointed BRO's posts are when he gets grouchy. It's like he can't put on the grouchiness and legit-scum-hunt simultaneously.
And for people who can't tell us apart, my style is literally miles apart from mollie's posting style.
Bert
So the UT hydra's play has fallen off since their start. But you say "if Osseus flips scum" in a way that makes me wonder whether you believe that you're voting for scum.In post 910, Zdenek wrote:I still think that if Osseus flips scum that the first order of business is to lynch &. Also, I have no idea what & is getting at in their last post
It's like you ignored everything going on and walked in, having decided beforehand to plop a L-1 vote on Ossy.
It was intentional because you have barely mentioned UT all game as a scumread, much less as any sorta read. Chamber's participation so far doesn't really warrant me asking him that same question, as he seems to be in observation/consultant mode to where I am still figuring out how his playstyle meshes in this game. I hold you to a different standard.In post 918, Zdenek wrote:and why are you questioning me over this and not Chamber?
It's somewhat boggling that you brought up Chamber when I asked you a question. I wanted your opinion!
My turn! Why aren't you saying this about Chamber?In post 916, Zdenek wrote:Scum. Contentless posting.
Yeah, he doesn't give you a ton of stuff to sink your teeth into. He's more of a tentative read because I'm unsure, there's a mystique about his posts...in a null-town way.In post 920, Zdenek wrote: I can follow enough of what Chamber is thinking by his posting to be fine with him (not everything mind you, for instance, that last thing).
When you voted Ossy, the first thing that popped up was I couldn't connect its motivation to your prior play. It doesn't fit, with how you've spoken skeptically of Ghato's play, why you wouldn't pick Ghato over Ossy.
That's fair.In post 920, Zdenek wrote:When someone consistently lurks its rather difficult to maintain attention on them.
<3 I like this post.In post 808, Mina wrote:I'm tempted to sheep all the people saying penguin wouldn't play like this as scum (although she was nominated for Don Corleone), because see the second paragraph, but I feel like Nacho/F-16 are overthinking the elaborate reasoning for their penguin townread.
In post 761, Mina wrote:WHATEVER. I'M SAYING HE'S IMPROVED AS SCUM SINCE THEN OR SOMETHING. STOP ASKING ME ABOUT MY READS SO I DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE MY MIND IN THE MIDDLE OF WRITING A SENTENCE.
While I agree with most of your logic throughout this game, I wanna know what in retrospect this post was for. It gives me so many doubts about this lynch. You were already voting Ossy at the time of this post, and you still are. I have trouble seeing how you as town would be content to gloriously stick to that vote without a great deal of waffling. I waffle all the time. Why aren't you with this read, and having seen Ossy scum, do you approve of this lynch?In post 761, Mina wrote:I think I've only seen him in Brotherhood of the Wolf as town, but I know it's common knowledge that UT doesn't give a shit as scum.
Yes, T-Bone is reacting poorly for sure. I don't like how he is leaving everyone else to guess why Mala is scummy to him, other than gut. I don't like how he is jumping to the conclusion that he looks town. Then again, I also wonder if he really expects to win that argument of "guys I'm obvtown" - chances are zilch.In post 952, Mina wrote:Also, can you honestly describe yourself as "obvious town" with a straight face? Even you've admitted that you've been a lurky nonentity this week--there was no real reason to think you were town. I
I'd also like to say that notscience trying to prevent infighting in this game was pretty pro-town motivated-looking.
how are "standoffish and unhelpful" unrelated to "in-your-face scum player?" Has he not been laying suspicion on people all game??In post 948, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:I think people are voting for Bro because he's being standoffish and unhelpful. I don't think this is scum for him, because imo he's more of an in-your-face scum player.
I feel like Falcon isn't displaying his usual eagerness to get scumhunting going. Again, mollie and I have not received satisfactory responses/answers from Falcon in our sincere reach-outs. Falcon is the type of player that uses good logic and pretty town-looking reasoning, and I don't see that yet. It's more throwing down words and making them seem town to me, but I digress.In post 943, BROseidon wrote:Basically, it makes no fucking sense when writing a massive reads list to sort the people who are under the most pressure last/with the least effort, especially when you're a leading wagon and should figure out who the best option is off your wagon to lynch.
But yes I get chills when looking at Falcon's posts, and something's off.
Mollie's not here right now, so it's just me. She has some things she wants to discuss with you (urgent), but as for me, what would you like to discuss?
I am pretty sure he would!
yes tbone plz provide these awsum links to where you have nailed nacho's alignment in gamesIn post 988, Zdenek wrote:links please.In post 945, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:I can read Nacho like the back of my hand.
ns, mala I think hanzo is just being really paranoid but I could be wrong. his "trajectory" (omg plz ban me for using that word) is full of fits and starts and it seems like he is just having a hard time getting in the flux of a playerlist who are pretty familiar with each other. you know who else does this albeit the shifts are much smoother? zden.
^ I think mebbe town
- medeas puts forth a meta case on bro I say nonono if you are going to scumread him look at his reads and the lack of commitment except for mala which is kind of like standing water. why are you not looking at bro's scumgames this confuses me cos we are indirectly supporting that read with you guyz but there is a lack of directive except the stale 1 you guyz have been pushing
- ghatty things I will honestly be too chickenshit to vote them /kills self checks in with bert.
- ossy things have not been worked out! and I am not sure how to but tbone's line of reasoning is so bad I cannot tell. it seems like ut is trying to town it up but there are beats he is missing so I dunno
-amper people are still people of interest! ding ding!
yeah I feel like you are talking around the wagons that are forming. you are lining up your ability to lynch whomever during this day phase. at this point after seeing you play in this game I kinda wanna see you harping on people esp. the people under pressure <3In post 1007, Mina wrote:This is kind of how I feel right now. I'd prefer another day to explore this read more.
To be fair, I'm also feeling chickenshit about voting BRO.
This is a cool defense and doesn't get enough towncred in mafia, which is a shame.In post 1011, Mina wrote:About this game, or about me? If it's the latter, I'm using, "too scummy to be scum" in my defence.
Fine, well I'm going to waffle too thank you very much <3
VOTE: Ghatokaca
Our scumread gets our vote.
How are there alliances, exactly? This doesn't seem like genuine frustration. A tendency for several coming together near DL to vote someone is being falsely found scummy IMOIn post 1002, Hanzo_5 wrote:I generally feel like you 4 are trying to some type of lynch embargo. Its lame and its like them alliances on survivor. This is day 1 there can be no alliance
VOTE: Ghatokaca
Our scumread gets our vote.
teeheeIn post 1038, Mina wrote:...right. Stances. Uh, Mina is town. That's totally a stance.
but that's easy to say just like scum can easily attack anti-town peoples
Any posts that don't sound like Mollie are probably not Mollie. Posts that have sentences beginning with capital letters are not Mollie. A portion of the day phase's posts have not been Mollie either. <3In post 1039, Medea the Alien wrote:Mollie, unvote. If you think there's the slightest chance Cabd and I are town here, work with us on this.
For example, from #884 onwards, only 900 and 1006 are mollie.
In post 1039, Medea the Alien wrote:F-16, mollie has no case. BRO threw out a few grumpy statements and she decided it was enough. Hint: it isn't.
holy fucking mother of christ are you kidding me???? I think bro is scummy I have been fucking begging you to I dunno actually LOOK at 1 of his scumgames in order to discuss the read on him and you can't be bothered!!! fucking misrep out the ass!!!! like I have literally been begging you guyz, f16 and mala to fucking LOOK at it to discuss things but NOOOOOOOO you can't be bothered. I have been waiting for you guyz to do this for over a week now and you are ignoring me. you want bro lynched but you fucking fail at the follow-up.
UNVOTE:
In post 1053, pirate mollie wrote:not if your reads are contingent on all things being equal!
I find it the weirdest thing ever that people are not looking at bro's scumgames!
mebbe he is scum
In post 1059, Ghatokaca wrote: I really really really really don't think missing one scum game means shit at all, especially in a reads list. Keep in mind that F-16 probably read through about 16 games in one sitting (or something close). Keep in mind that before he made this big long list, he was already biased and already looking to confirm or disprove a couple theories: it takes a complete fucking robot in order to release a reads list and actually start from scratch.
He wasn't doing thorough meta dives on everyone. It shouldn't matter that he missed one of bro's scumgames, especially when there is absolutely no alignment relevant reason to do so. What will linking BRO's scumgame and saying "cool, I read it" do to F-16's read of BRO? What will linking it do in thread? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
I lean town on Toasty.
But wait wait wait
I don't feel strongly about it. Still.
he didn't just miss 1 of bro's scumgames he missed fucking all of them the only games he is referencing are 2 town games he has said he hasn't looked at broscum yes there is very srs fucking problem when your whole fucking case/read resides on a meta dive this should be obvious why the fuck am I having to point this out?????
2In post 1088, Ghatokaca wrote:I think the last read is bazinga, who doesn't get a read, but a counter:
1
you are not off the hook especially since I could totally see you bussing ossy things. and don't even with your tawdry argument that "oh f16 put a lot of time and effort into his reads list!" after seeing emp's lists in asofai! <---- that is who f16 trucks with, players like emp and reggie I would expect no less. so no
I am sorry you are not in a good mood tho
In post 1103, Medea the Alien wrote:we'll shift to Osseus for deadline purposes but reserve the right to be salty about it post-game if BRO is the scum we think he is.
In post 1046, bazinga wrote:like I have literally been begging you guyz, f16 and mala to fucking LOOK at it to discuss things but NOOOOOOOO you can't be bothered. I have been waiting for you guyz to do this for over a week now and you are ignoring me. you want bro lynched but you fucking fail at the follow-up.
do you think this is scummy given the circumstances?In post 1106, Ghatokaca wrote:I hadn't considered the flip side that if Osseus didn't make some strong push, they were more likely to be lynched than we were so the pushcould actually be a self-serving move.
except I am not applying emp's meta to you I am explaining why I don't see your "bunch of words" as a towntell cos nacho seems to think that I should! it is an objective tellIn post 1109, Ghatokaca wrote:But I am not Emp? My posts are incredibly transparent to anyone that knows how to read me. Quit applying other people's (Empire's) meta to me (Mina as well).In post 1099, bazinga wrote:oh f16 put a lot of time and effort into his reads list!" after seeing emp's lists in asofai!
~ F-16
misrep me again and we are going to have some problems
I wanted you to read an actual scum game of bros instead of saying that he is scum cos he isn't playing to his town meta. <------- I was trying to get a better read on you cos town would do this in order to be sure of a scumread. instead you have flatout ignored me and have whined incessantly about how he should be getting off the hook just cos he says "fuck you" when that has never been the case you disingenuous @#$% I was wanting to work with you but I don't think you know how.
and no, the game I linked was to sabotage and cabd was not in that 1.
no matter how you spin it your meta case was crap cos I dunno it left out his scum meta completely and yet you are somehow pulsing a scumread out of it?
bro looks bad but not for the reasons you have stated he is bad cos he is usually spot on and in this game he isn't. <------ I can't get 1 player in this game to discuss this with me and it has been frustrating as hell cos it throws my reads off
and no, the game I linked was to sabotage and cabd was not in that 1.
no matter how you spin it your meta case was crap cos I dunno it left out his scum meta completely and yet you are somehow pulsing a scumread out of it?
bro looks bad but not for the reasons you have stated he is bad cos he is usually spot on and in this game he isn't. <------ I can't get 1 player in this game to discuss this with me and it has been frustrating as hell cos it throws my reads off
I vaguely kept up with ny165 IRT cos I spotted scummy jacob the second he subbed in and was feeling incredibly smug about it. I was surprised that bro made it as far as he did but not really cos his partner was ap
his mala push is dumb and it lacks conviction. <----- I have said this.
and his reads are terrible. <----- I have said this too!
I was wanting to talk to ghatty things about it but they are in disagreement over the read. do you wanna try to resuscitate the bro wagon? my hesitancy comes from that scumbro at least
his mala push is dumb and it lacks conviction. <----- I have said this.
and his reads are terrible. <----- I have said this too!
I was wanting to talk to ghatty things about it but they are in disagreement over the read. do you wanna try to resuscitate the bro wagon? my hesitancy comes from that scumbro at least
tries
to make himself somewhat likeable and in this game it is like he doesn't care which makes me think if he is scum he is being hard-bussed but idksomething specific from how he interacts with me which i'm not getting from him yet which sucks cos i love nachoIn post 1132, Zdenek wrote:What is that you are looking for from Nacho?
mina comment on this plz tiaIn post 1084, Ghatokaca wrote:I also think that Mina is scum. Her primary strengths as scum are looking town and AtEing as well as getting away with all of that wonderful "oh look at me, I'm waffling!". I don't like her treatment of the Ampersand hydra. I think that her paranoia on CES is not as transparent or vocalized as it would be if she were town (she gave us "oh this is totally scum CES" and then nothing more) and I thought she dismissed Fenchurch far too quickly for tone reasons and pretty much nothing else (and her paranoia with CES didn't match up to her completely falling for Fenchurch). I also don't like her reaction to UT lately, regardless of his alignment. I actually think its a little less likely to be coming from scum partners since its pretty blatant and horrible, but it also could come from scum-Mina who is discovering there is less heat on her partner than there should be.
that sort of implies that you are saying you are incompetent...In post 1152, Medea the Alien wrote:While I appreciate the assumption that I'm halfway competent, what exactly do you think I'm faking?
VOTE: BROseidon
--PA
what is your scum win to town win ratio?In post 1157, Medea the Alien wrote:...and?In post 1154, bazinga wrote:that sort of implies that you are saying you are incompetent...In post 1152, Medea the Alien wrote:While I appreciate the assumption that I'm halfway competent, what exactly do you think I'm faking?
VOTE: BROseidon
--PA
--PA
what was mina's snarky joke? cos I missed itIn post 1160, Medea the Alien wrote:A snarky joke deserves an equally snarky response, no?In post 1154, bazinga wrote:that sort of implies that you are saying you are incompetent...In post 1152, Medea the Alien wrote:While I appreciate the assumption that I'm halfway competent, what exactly do you think I'm faking?
VOTE: BROseidon
--PA
there is no assumption you are just making shit upIn post 1165, Medea the Alien wrote:I've been scum with bro twice, and lost to broscum another two times. It's like you're assuming that the micro you linked is his only scumgame EVER.In post 1115, bazinga wrote:I wanted you to read an actual scum game of bros instead of saying that he is scum cos he isn't playing to his town meta. <------- I was trying to get a better read on you cos town would do this in order to be sure of a scumread. instead you have flatout ignored me and have whined incessantly about how he should be getting off the hook just cos he says "fuck you" when that has never been the case you disingenuous @#$% I was wanting to work with you but I don't think you know how.
so why when I have begging for a meta discussion have you guyz ignored it?