Mini 1603 - Air Combat Mafia - Game Over
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Why did you vote him?
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Well technically it is self-evident that anything someone does is a thing to do because it was an action performed.
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Do you think because it was your second post of the game you should be immune to questioning about it?
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Ki-Gi, do you think it's likely that scum would drop a second-vote-on-wagon vote without explanation like that?
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So you don't think it's likely MattP is scum, you just want to get people to vote him to show disapproval of the flubber wagon?
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↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Ki-Gi, do you think it's likely that scum would drop a second-vote-on-wagon vote without explanation like that?
You said you don't think it's likely that scum would drop the second vote on a wagon without explanation, which is what Matt did.
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↑ farside22 wrote:Anatole: ki explained here his reasoning do you think he sai this
↑ Ki-Gi wrote:Your vote was opportunistic because you tried to back it up with (poor) reasoning. His vote seemed random, blatantly without justification. It's scum motivation vs. WIFOM, I pick the former as more likely to be scum. My question could gain insight into the wagon to better understand his post (if it was to be answered), so I can therefore see if I'm missing something about it that makes it scummier.
Then said the second vote wasn't scummy is a scum tell?
Sorry, I don't really understand what you're asking here.
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a) I know people who say bruh
b) farside, that's why I'm asking questions - to flesh out and contextualize the game so far
b) farside, that's why I'm asking questions - to flesh out and contextualize the game so far
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farside, how many scum have you got with random, completely unqualified and unexplained votes?
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↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:farside, how many scum have you got with random, completely unqualified and unexplained votes?
My vote is not random or a shock I would say.
But please keep asking pointless questions that give you no alignment info.
It's not pointless - you still haven't explained why you are voting for me. Why are you trying to avoid explaining the vote?
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↑ mykonian wrote:
yes, that's the best thing about an unreasoned vote.
All we got from you is "wow" in that time. Oh, and now this post, obviously, where apparently it dawns only now on me that I'm using a language based tell to accuse you.
So. "wow, I've been really caught on that" or"wow, I rarely don't post such sentences bruh"?
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I said I didn't understand what you were asking. Your question at the top of the last page does not follow any known human language syntax.
I then explained I was trying to get the first couple pages sussed out by asking questions. What isn't answered?
I then explained I was trying to get the first couple pages sussed out by asking questions. What isn't answered?
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Farside, If you were town you should welcome the opportunity to explain scumreads or perceived motives - not just ignore the chance to reason out a possible wagon as a gotcha for a point that is irrelevant.
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I saw his post about Matt earlier, and asked if he thought the way Matt (who he was and is voting) would be likely to vote in such a bold way (no other text, or explanation) as the second vote on a wagon if he was scum. I asked this because I think that reduces the chances of it being a scum vote. Ki-Gi even said himself he didn't think it would be likely when addressing the question in a more general manner.
That has nothing to do with what you're arguing.
That has nothing to do with what you're arguing.
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I just find it weird that you're willing to drop an apparently serious vote with intention to make a case later, rather than the logical order of making a case first.
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↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I saw his post about Matt earlier, and asked if he thought Matt (who he was and is voting) would be likely to vote in such a bold way (no other text, or explanation) as the second vote on a wagon if he was scum. I asked this because I think that reduces the chances of it being a scum vote. Ki-Gi even said himself he didn't think it would be likely when addressing the question in a more general manner.
That has nothing to do with what you're arguing.
EBWOP that first sentence for coherence.
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↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I saw his post about Matt earlier, and asked if he thought the way Matt (who he was and is voting) would be likely to vote in such a bold way (no other text, or explanation) as the second vote on a wagon if he was scum. I asked this because I think that reduces the chances of it being a scum vote. Ki-Gi even said himself he didn't think it would be likely when addressing the question in a more general manner.
That has nothing to do with what you're arguing.
You realize your question did not refer to Matt right?
He also stated it wasn't a big scum tell, also not sure why your up in arms over my vote with explanation while questioning ki for his vote with the rational of being a second vote without a reason.
What is the difference between the first vote for no reason push?
Your vote still has no explanation at all.
And yes, I was asking a question to Ki-Gi in reference to Matt originally. I think I would know better than you. Ki-gi seemed to understand the question fine when I asked it - you are the only one who did not.
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Why shouldn't I question her voting without explanation?
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Are you my fucking life coach dude? Am I getting charged for this?
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↑ Ki-Gi wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I saw his post about Matt earlier, and asked if he thought the way Matt (who he was and is voting) would be likely to vote in such a bold way (no other text, or explanation) as the second vote on a wagon if he was scum. I asked this because I think that reduces the chances of it being a scum vote. Ki-Gi even said himself he didn't think it would be likely when addressing the question in a more general manner.
That has nothing to do with what you're arguing.
You realize your question did not refer to Matt right?
He also stated it wasn't a big scum tell, also not sure why your up in arms over my vote with explanation while questioning ki for his vote with the rational of being a second vote without a reason.
What is the difference between the first vote for no reason push?
Your vote still has no explanation at all.
And yes, I was asking a question to Ki-Gi in reference to Matt originally. I think I would know better than you. Ki-gi seemed to understand the question fine when I asked it - you are the only one who did not.
That's not true, I thought you were referring to Flubber when you were referring to Matt, which made me answer yes as opposed to no.
Your answer shows to me what you would think of the situation without confbias, do you disagree?
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↑ MattP wrote:
When I read through your posts regardless of content they came off as vindictive. I care much less about what you are doing in your posts. Do you currently believe that farside is even scummy?
Pursuing a case without any reasoning at all, discouraging questioning players and their motives are the scummiest traits that have been displayed so far. I'm trying to let her explain why she's playing like this before I make up my mind.
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↑ farside22 wrote:
Oh Anatole seems scum to me. His why vote without a reason, but saw nothing scummy from you doing it and those question. Pfft. Something with those questions should have provided insight from those he asked, but instead there is confusion because of how he asked his questions.
I'll explain better when I get home.
Do you realize that some votes are meant to be taken seriously and some are basically bullshit votes? Matt explained his was the latter. Your vote is obviously earnest. Do you seriously not see the difference?
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↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ Ki-Gi wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I saw his post about Matt earlier, and asked if he thought the way Matt (who he was and is voting) would be likely to vote in such a bold way (no other text, or explanation) as the second vote on a wagon if he was scum. I asked this because I think that reduces the chances of it being a scum vote. Ki-Gi even said himself he didn't think it would be likely when addressing the question in a more general manner.
That has nothing to do with what you're arguing.
You realize your question did not refer to Matt right?
He also stated it wasn't a big scum tell, also not sure why your up in arms over my vote with explanation while questioning ki for his vote with the rational of being a second vote without a reason.
What is the difference between the first vote for no reason push?
And again, no explanation of why. You are seriously fishing here.
Your vote still has no explanation at all.
And yes, I was asking a question to Ki-Gi in reference to Matt originally. I think I would know better than you. Ki-gi seemed to understand the question fine when I asked it - you are the only one who did not.
That's not true, I thought you were referring to Flubber when you were referring to Matt, which made me answer yes as opposed to no.
Your answer shows to me what you would think of the situation without confbias, do you disagree?
Scum post ^
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I understand that, KiGi and it's one of the reasons I'm not still trying to argue anything about that quote with you. Farside on the other hand, is trying to make it seem scummy even though the two people involved with the question are past it.
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I guess you guys don't see it, but in my mind farside is just digging herself deeper and deeper into a subterranean logic-free abyss where no town motives seem to exist.
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That above large quote had text under it, but the forum somehow bugged out and omitted it. I frequently have buggy interactions with the quoting and multiquoting that cost me posts or break quote tags in ways I didn't realize were possible.
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Those posts were several minutes apart. Playing this game with ADD makes it difficult to sum up every possible thought in a single neat post, even if I make a habit of waiting a few minutes before I submit each one. Something can always come up a few minutes later after a quick re-read or whatever.
But I see your point and will try to be better about this.
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This is what happens when I'm bored at work all day because there are no support tickets to deal with.
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↑ MattP wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Why did you vote him?
Because it was something to do? I mean, it was the second post of the game, I assumed that intention would be pretty evident
This is how I knew it was a bullshit vote, Farside. Are you reading the entire game or just cherry picking posts?
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↑ xRECKONERx wrote:So uh I skimmed it all like super fast and zzzzzzz
Also I thought this was Top Gun Mafia when I signed up GODDAMMIT MONGOOOOOOOOOSE
Also I'm gonna do this
VOTE: Anatole
You better check yourself before you Reck yourself.
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↑ mykonian wrote:↑ MattP wrote:↑ mykonian wrote:↑ MattP wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Well technically it is self-evident that anything someone does is a thing to do because it was an action performed.
Ok, but I think this is especially appropriate sass on my part given that you're asking me about the second post of a game
I'm decidedly losing you here. Both of you. No clue where you are going with this.
What do you want from posting this and why exactly?
Any kind of response is a good response.
They are fancy sentences that say absolutely nothing. I do not understand why either of you is making them. They are no part of anything social, nor do they do anything to advance the game.
Would be very nice if you did have a clue where that was going.
I was asking Matt about an RVS post, he responded sassily, I responded sassily, he sassed the sass.
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Me and MattP have the sophisticated rapport of a third season Gilmore Girls episode and you simply cannot keep up, myko.
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What's your read on farside?
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↑ MattP wrote:↑ MattP wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Do you think because it was your second post of the game you should be immune to questioning about it?
Of course not, but I do think me saying "Oh boy, no RVS!" and voting and then never returning to that subject paints a pretty legit picture of my intentions with that post to just "do something"
To this transition in conversation from Anatole:
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Ki-Gi, do you think it's likely that scum would drop a second-vote-on-wagon vote without explanation like that?
Implied to me that he understood my point and was moving onto focusing on Ki-Gi.
I'm glad somebody understood that.
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↑ mykonian wrote:First up, she's really farside. Seen this before, I've been a couple of times in your position and I'm a little bit too stubborn as well.
I think farside and I had 3 of such games. (both mixed ones and once we were both town) I think in such arguments I have a vague idea what farsides scum meta is and this isn't yet there. She's quite aware of the way these games go and as scum she uses it, but that does feel different. If I had to call it now this is farside town.
EDIT: depends on your age, Ki-Gi.
So what reads do you have? Do you still think Ki-Gi is scum?
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↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Ki-Gi, do you think it's likely that scum would drop a second-vote-on-wagon vote without explanation like that?
Anatole why did you ask the question this way if it's not a scum tell to you?
I was trying to break down why KiGi was voting Matt when at worst his vote was null.
↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:What do you find interesting about the flubbernugget wagon?
Can I say what I find interesting about the whole thing!?!?
Like I've been asking all day? Sure.
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↑ mykonian wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:What do you find interesting about the flubbernugget wagon?
It was frivolous. All that's left is figuring out who was feeling it for what reason. Otherwise there have been few people stepping out.
For example this questioning line is really noncommittal. I'm not quite sure what it get you nor do I really get anything from you. It's bland, it's boring, you could be either allignment and look very important like this without achieving anything. Hence this is a lot less interesting than the wagon because something actually happened there. It's not along the lines you could think up beforehand.
how do you expect to catch scum if scum knows what's going to happen?
a) Why are you guys so threatened by me asking questions?
b) What do you mean I look important? How so?
I was curious if there was a particular voter on the wagon you felt was scummy - because I might agree with you about Beli's vote, but apparently it's the entire thing.
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Too many players ask leading questions that give too much away, give scum an out in answering, or assume an answer from the beginning. None of these are particularly useful when trying to understand players' motivations. I'd rather just ask you guys what you were/are thinking. I'm not trying to look "important" whatever that means - I'm trying to piece together reads and you and farside are being particularly reluctant in response.
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Why are you putting the burden on everyone else to generate content, Csareo?
Beli, what do you mean?
Beli, what do you mean?
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I think I may have misunderstood this comment. by "I could only extract so much" I got the impression you were remanding us because there was little worth noting in 7 pages.
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↑ farside22 wrote:This maybe a mess.
Phone posting is not my best ability.
I bring up this question because Anatole stated that matts vote on nugget was a null tell.
It obviously bother Anatole or this question to Matt was pointless.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:
Why did you vote him?
This is a gotcha moment to point out something scummy about ki in my view that ki never stated an issue with the placement of the vote.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Ki-Gi, do you think it's likely that scum would drop a second-vote-on-wagon vote without explanation like that?
You said you don't think it's likely that scum would drop the second vote on a wagon without explanation, which is what Matt did.
This question looks like something I asked myko see above and below.
Not sure why the mimicry was necessary.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:farside, how many scum have you got with random, completely unqualified and unexplained votes?
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:farside, how many scum have you got with random, completely unqualified and unexplained votes?
My vote is not random or a shock I would say.
But please keep asking pointless questions that give you no alignment info.
It's not pointless - you still haven't explained why you are voting for me. Why are you trying to avoid explaining the vote?
This statement is pretty false. I pretty bluntly stated his questions were pointless. Acting like I'm avoiding response although I stated that I'd put the quotes of questions in this thread.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Farside, If you were town you should welcome the opportunity to explain scumreads or perceived motives - not just ignore the chance to reason out a possible wagon as a gotcha for a point that is irrelevant.
Still whining despite my response to other question I've awnsered.
Basically again pointless.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I just find it weird that you're willing to drop an apparently serious vote with intention to make a case later, rather than the logical order of making a case first.
Why didn't you ask reck about his vote?
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ MattP wrote:
When I read through your posts regardless of content they came off as vindictive. I care much less about what you are doing in your posts. Do you currently believe that farside is even scummy?
Pursuing a case without any reasoning at all, discouraging questioning players and their motives are the scummiest traits that have been displayed so far. I'm trying to let her explain why she's playing like this before I make up my mind.
More pointless whining, at this point I think I've stated 3 times there'd be a case coming.
Basically at this point it reads as though Anatole isn't reading my post or purposely trying to make it that I'm the bad guy for not putting a case out right off the bat, which isn't scummy and is bs.
Next are these 2 comment.
First he states they hashed things out.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:
I understand that, KiGi and it's one of the reasons I'm not still trying to argue anything about that quote with you. Farside on the other hand, is trying to make it seem scummy even though the two people involved with the question are past it.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I'm not sure on Ki-Gi yet.
But doesn't have a read and doesn't appear to try to understand ki's POV.
I feel like pointing out for the umpteenth time ki's issue with Matt had nothing to do with wagon placement and acting like it was is scummy to me.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Too many players ask leading questions that give too much away, give scum an out in answering, or assume an answer from the beginning. None of these are particularly useful when trying to understand players' motivations. I'd rather just ask you guys what you were/are thinking. I'm not trying to look "important" whatever that means - I'm trying to piece together reads and you and farside are being particularly reluctant in response.
This is pretty much an exaggeration. The only thing I never explain in full was why I was scum reading Anatole but I've awnsered everything else asked.
Oh and my final evidence that Anatole seems to be asking questions for the sake of asking questions.
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Why are you putting the burden on everyone else to generate content, Csareo?
Beli, what do you mean?
Not even close to what csareo was saying in his post.
Wait, are you still going to make a case? Or is this poor, inaccurate summary of my posts supposed to be it?
Why are you using that question to beli as "evidence"?
You say I'm not reading your posts intentionally as if they aren't more or less all muddled indecipherable gibberish.
I don't give a shit about reck's vote. He's just being reck. It'll probably change in his first post tomorrow morning.
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↑ Csareo wrote:Look up guys
There is a dumbass in our midst, and he's here to troll
I would not mind policy lynching this asshole. He'll say stupid shit that will get him scum read and we'll spend 5 pages arguing about whether that is just his meta.
I can confirm that flubber's meta is to act like a douchebag.
VOTE: carstereo
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Sorry I was rude in my last posts, Farside. I was in a bad mood last night.
But I echo my statement by asking what the fuck are you talking about re: trying to make my posts look like your posts?
But I echo my statement by asking what the fuck are you talking about re: trying to make my posts look like your posts?
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↑ Csareo wrote:Look up guys
There is a dumbass in our midst, and he's here to troll
I would not mind policy lynching this asshole. He'll say stupid shit that will get him scum read and we'll spend 5 pages arguing about whether that is just his meta.
I can confirm that flubber's meta is to act like a douchebag.
A) Supports a policy lynch on a player for past games
B) flat out says policy lynches are straight up scum playz
Slip, miscalculation, etc.
Vote this guy.
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↑ farside22 wrote:
What do you mean?
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Sorry I was rude in my last posts, Farside. I was in a bad mood last night.
But I echo my statement by asking what the fuck are you talking about re: trying to make my posts look like your posts?
Let me start by saying this question proves alone you did not read the case I made that you mocked so openly.
Second you literally pitched a fit on my naked vote and I state reasons, then you do the exact same fucking thing to csareo. If something you feel is anti town why copy those actions?
I quoted the post where he asked for a policy lynch on a player with like one post in the game. Is that not self-explanatory?
Add to that he compounded the scumminess of that post by following it up with a TOTAL SCUM SLIP by saying ONLY SCUM POLICY LYNCH.
Do you not care about that *at all*?
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I mocked your case against me because it was really bad. You just quoted posts and interpreted them poorly, mostly stuff that has already been argued or explained in a way that makes it clear you didn't understand them at all.
This frustrates me because you don't like me asking questions that help me understand people's reasoning, yet you clearly misunderstand posts frequently and just roll with it.
Which makes more sense?
This frustrates me because you don't like me asking questions that help me understand people's reasoning, yet you clearly misunderstand posts frequently and just roll with it.
Which makes more sense?
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Vote Csareo, watch him scum flip, then you can stop wasting your time arguing bullshit because you'll know I'm town.
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Myko, You think a player pushing a policy lynch, then in his next few posts saying only scum policy lynch is less significant than your RVS vote on kigi?
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↑ farside22 wrote:This maybe a mess.
Phone posting is not my best ability.
I bring up this question because Anatole stated that matts vote on nugget was a null tell.
It obviously bother Anatole or this question to Matt was pointless.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:
Why did you vote him?
This is a gotcha moment to point out something scummy about ki in my view that ki never stated an issue with the placement of the vote.
Actually it was me asking him why he voted. Because I wanted to know.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Ki-Gi, do you think it's likely that scum would drop a second-vote-on-wagon vote without explanation like that?
You said you don't think it's likely that scum would drop the second vote on a wagon without explanation, which is what Matt did.
This question looks like something I asked myko see above and below.
Not sure why the mimicry was necessary.
I intentionally framed my question the same way to show why your vote was as bad as his language tell/brah thing. That's the point. It's a rhetorical device called repetition.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:farside, how many scum have you got with random, completely unqualified and unexplained votes?
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:farside, how many scum have you got with random, completely unqualified and unexplained votes?
My vote is not random or a shock I would say.
But please keep asking pointless questions that give you no alignment info.
It's not pointless - you still haven't explained why you are voting for me. Why are you trying to avoid explaining the vote?
This statement is pretty false. I pretty bluntly stated his questions were pointless. Acting like I'm avoiding response although I stated that I'd put the quotes of questions in this thread.
Yes, and quoting questions is not a case. It wasn't then and isn't now. You still have not given a single convincing reason for thinking I'm scum.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Farside, If you were town you should welcome the opportunity to explain scumreads or perceived motives - not just ignore the chance to reason out a possible wagon as a gotcha for a point that is irrelevant.
Still whining despite my response to other question I've awnsered.
Basically again pointless.
You wasted so much time posting yesterday about my questions that could have been used actually explaining your case about them. And now that you have - it is clear that the case has as much substance as a fairy's fart. I'm going to say that my whining was justified in light of this.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I just find it weird that you're willing to drop an apparently serious vote with intention to make a case later, rather than the logical order of making a case first.
Why didn't you ask reck about his vote?
I understood reck's vote. already been addressed
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ MattP wrote:
When I read through your posts regardless of content they came off as vindictive. I care much less about what you are doing in your posts. Do you currently believe that farside is even scummy?
Pursuing a case without any reasoning at all, discouraging questioning players and their motives are the scummiest traits that have been displayed so far. I'm trying to let her explain why she's playing like this before I make up my mind.
More pointless whining, at this point I think I've stated 3 times there'd be a case coming.
Basically at this point it reads as though Anatole isn't reading my post or purposely trying to make it that I'm the bad guy for not putting a case out right off the bat, which isn't scummy and is bs.[/quote]
You realize in the
post you quoted
he asked me for my opinion on you. I wasn't just "whining" for the fuck of it.Next are these 2 comment.
First he states they hashed things out.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:
I understand that, KiGi and it's one of the reasons I'm not still trying to argue anything about that quote with you. Farside on the other hand, is trying to make it seem scummy even though the two people involved with the question are past it.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I'm not sure on Ki-Gi yet.
But doesn't have a read and doesn't appear to try to understand ki's POV.
I feel like pointing out for the umpteenth time ki's issue with Matt had nothing to do with wagon placement and acting like it was is scummy to me.
Yep, already been addressed a thousand times and you still don't understand any of the interaction with me and Ki-Gi. I got him to admit that it was unlikely Matt's vote was scum motivated because of the context.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Too many players ask leading questions that give too much away, give scum an out in answering, or assume an answer from the beginning. None of these are particularly useful when trying to understand players' motivations. I'd rather just ask you guys what you were/are thinking. I'm not trying to look "important" whatever that means - I'm trying to piece together reads and you and farside are being particularly reluctant in response.
This is pretty much an exaggeration. The only thing I never explain in full was why I was scum reading Anatole but I've awnsered everything else asked.
What are you even talking about? This was clearly a comment on general play, not anyone in this game in particular. This is me trying to explain why I ask questions to understand the game. Look up the socratic method.
Oh and my final evidence that Anatole seems to be asking questions for the sake of asking questions.
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Why are you putting the burden on everyone else to generate content, Csareo?
Beli, what do you mean?
Not even close to what csareo was saying in his post.
Still would love to know why you think that question to beli was pointless.
Csareo's statement was confusing. Already been addressed. He looked like he was complaining about our posting without actually posting anything of substance himself.
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I don't even think you're scum at this point, I just think you're completely oblivious.
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This comes up in all my town games. Look up Beli's recent Flying Aces match. Majiffy yelled at me for a couple pages saying I'm anti-town because the way I play makes it difficult to discern my alignment. It's not intentional. It works though because I have a 100% town winrate so far this year.
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He's not just contradicting himself - he's trying to make cases based on contradictions as well. He is changing his opinions based on who he wants to lynch.
Wants to lynch flubber because he's an easy, absent target - let's do a policy lynch
Trying to argue against Ki-Gi - policy lynches are for scum
Wants to lynch flubber because he's an easy, absent target - let's do a policy lynch
Trying to argue against Ki-Gi - policy lynches are for scum
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Maybe if he had done something as egregious as saying "bruh," you'd find Csareo a worthwhile target.
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There are no results to show because you are ignoring my case. Vote Carstereo and we will have results.
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It's circular logic - I'm not getting results with my posts because I am being scumread and thus you won't vote with me. I'm being scumread because I'm not getting results.
This is a serious case on scum and you are opting to not vote on it.
This is a serious case on scum and you are opting to not vote on it.
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Your choices affect whether someone gets lynched or not. Lynching scum = results. You are stopping me from getting results.
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↑ farside22 wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:it is not clear to me either
What did you think of ki's reaction to my vote?
His response isn't alignment indicative and makes decent points.
If you're trying to vote someone for not scumhunting, why wouldn't you hold Belisarius, TSO, Myko, etc. to the same standard? He's doing more than they are to actually have some presence in the town.
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TSO, whats the difference between you being "okay" with lynching ssk and myko wanting to lynch you? You are arguing that you are not contributing a lot because you are lazy - why can't the same argument apply to ssk?
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↑ Espressojet wrote:Oh crap, page eight and I'm not here! I'll catch up tomorrow, I'm sorry guys!
This was 4 days ago.
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Are you fucking serious? You lurk the entire game while continuing to post elsewhere on the site, come in 4 days after saying you would read the game (during which time you continued posting elsewhere), then read 3 pages and ask for us to summarize a 15 page game for you? jesus christ
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↑ Espressojet wrote:Or just, y'know, quote some post you made or whatever works for you.
Ok.
read the damn game
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You are not seriously demanding people give you reads when you wont spend ten minutes reading the thread.
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Have a little respect for the mod and the other players and put some fucking effort into the game.
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I'm not just fucking around, for the record. The more I read TSO's ISO the more unnatural it felt.
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I've played with espresso twice - once he was scum and once he was town. He played just as clueless and obnoxious as here. His scum game was so bad that there was no way he could be scum. I don't want to make the same mistake twice - but this blatant dipshittery in this game leads me to a "this guy is probably 16" read rather than a "this guy is scum" read.
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If we're going to policy lynch him I'd rather he just replace out since he offered to do so.
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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58477
This is the scum game - he gets lynched very quickly. I was wrong about him there so who fucking knows
This is the scum game - he gets lynched very quickly. I was wrong about him there so who fucking knows
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Not playing shit - playing like an immature kid. I play like shit all the time but I don't act like a baby when people don't play the game for me.
I don't mean any offense to young people who don't act like this.
I don't mean any offense to young people who don't act like this.
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This is the case for my scumread on you. It's not bulletproof or anything but like you've said yourself, no active players have done anything egregious so we work with the toys the gods give us.
You come into the game and lament that there is no activity, but the majority of your posts are just asking why you are being scumread instead of making a case yourself. ? If every player played like you are now, we would no-lynch every day.
He also looks scummy this game. I gave up on this a little bit when both tso and myko defended csareo, since both could not be his scumbuddy.
reasoning follows:
People that self-meta their scum game typically flip scum in my experience.
This isn't necessarily relevant to your alignment - but why do you come in, say you're not satisfied with the content in the game, then proceed to have almost all of your content be defending against a case you find very weak? You don't seem to be making an attempt to do anything except defend yourself.
Your play looks nothing like your town play in Wake's mountainous. I'm not accepting "not interested in the game" as an excuse - antihero told you that in wake's game and you reamed him for it.
You come into the game and lament that there is no activity, but the majority of your posts are just asking why you are being scumread instead of making a case yourself. ? If every player played like you are now, we would no-lynch every day.
He also looks scummy this game. I gave up on this a little bit when both tso and myko defended csareo, since both could not be his scumbuddy.
reasoning follows:
People that self-meta their scum game typically flip scum in my experience.
This isn't necessarily relevant to your alignment - but why do you come in, say you're not satisfied with the content in the game, then proceed to have almost all of your content be defending against a case you find very weak? You don't seem to be making an attempt to do anything except defend yourself.
Your play looks nothing like your town play in Wake's mountainous. I'm not accepting "not interested in the game" as an excuse - antihero told you that in wake's game and you reamed him for it.
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TSO besides SSK who would you be cool with lynching?
Bonus points if myko isn't the only other player.
Bonus points if myko isn't the only other player.
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↑ Espressojet wrote:
I was also active in FTL and not busy in real life.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I've played with espresso twice - once he was scum and once he was town. He played just as clueless and obnoxious as here. His scum game was so bad that there was no way he could be scum. I don't want to make the same mistake twice - but this blatant dipshittery in this game leads me to a "this guy is probably 16" read rather than a "this guy is scum" read.
20 actually. And yes, my scumplay online is abhorrent.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Not playing shit - playing like an immature kid. I play like shit all the time but I don't act like a baby when people don't play the game for me.
I don't mean any offense to young people who don't act like this.
Can you quote me where I've been acting like atoddler and throwing a tantrum? You're handling this much less maturely than I am. I simply asked for people's top scumreads and why.
Those are your words not mine. Your ISO posts #3-8 are ultimately "play the game for me or tell me to replace out." This is a childish stance when you sign up to play a game that is almost ENTIRELY based around developing reads of other people yourself.
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I can't help shake the feeling that I want to lynch flugnubblet because he has literally the worst name ever conceived.
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Well, if KiGi, SSK, and Csareo don't post in the next 15 minutes they're up for replacement.
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Good question. Reck - why do you like the case against Matt *and* the case he is making? Do you think he is a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde type monster and Flubber is only scumbuddies with one aspect of his person?
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↑ xRECKONERx wrote:I was shocked by myko's case because there was actual thought and reasoning which is a huge departure.
I didn't say I agreed with it.
Can you quote Myko's case on matt that you're saying had actual thought and reasoning?
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As far as I can tell.
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Why are you voting flubber instead of TSO then? Am I town for making a similar case to myko's about TSO?
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Fencesitting about a case that never existed is scummy. Refusing to give "meta" analysis to defend a supposed goof is also scummy.
What part of voting that is icky or sucked?
What part of voting that is icky or sucked?
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I fuck up sometimes too and I was pretty satisfied with your response until you tried to OMGUS me over it despite the TSO shit being shady af - why wouldn't I vote you for the comments you made if they weren't a goof?
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Reck, if you saw another player make the comments you made, you wouldn't find that suspicious?
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Because it's quite possible you were making up the TSO meta shit to give validity to your excuse about the goof. Scum lie sometimes, unsurprisingly.
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↑ xRECKONERx wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Scum motivation - looking busy, opening mislynch options, buddying players.
"looking busy"- by posting? What the fuck
"opening mislynch options"- uh, on who? You mean when I called MattP town or when I called myko town?
"buddying players"- who was I buddying, Matt or Myko?
This is operating under the assumption that your post was clear that you didn't agree with Myko's "case" against matt.
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Praising a case typically means you agree with the logic behind it. You didn't say you liked the way myko was playing - you said you liked the case.
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I want to hear the TSO thing because I would rather give you the benefit of the doubt about this and lynch him.
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Yeah, that wasn't meant to be in response to your comment or anything - just making a note. They're past replacement deadline since they were prodded yesterday morning not sure how many people will be jumping to replace into this game but fresh blood may get it popping a bit more.
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↑ Espressojet wrote:I've been reading throughout the game bit by bit. I have been since I started posting again, but I wanted to know how people would feel if I said I wasn't.
Nobody went for the bait, so there's no reason to continue.
VOTE: Anatole
This guy's been pushing every little thing, and he's been way overeager in everything he does. My guess is either scum or power role, but my money's on scum, I think it's more likely, and the way he was biting the hook made me feel even more from him.
How is this for overeager?
VOTE: Espresso
Why would you even speculate I might have a power role? In what world would they ever be a pro-town thing to say?
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also your claim that saying you didn't read the game was a reaction test is horse hockey
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Espresso, can we get a list of reads that you so aptly gained from your master ruse?
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↑ Espressojet wrote:Ooooh, an OMGUS vote in the wild!
I speculate you might have a power role because potentially if others seem to agree with me on the fact that you are scum, instead of letting you get speedlynched it could give you a chance for a claim just so we don't fuck up. (It could potentially stop a mislynch if that happened to be the case)
This is hilariously bad.
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Cool story bro.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Espresso, can we get a list of reads that you so aptly gained from your master ruse?
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Yeah I just wanted to make fun of how stupid your reaction test was, which is why I phrased it that way.
But now I would like to hear if you have any other reads.
But now I would like to hear if you have any other reads.
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↑ Espressojet wrote:Anatole Kuragin wrote:Yeah I just wanted to make fun of how stupid your reaction test was, which is why I phrased it that way.
But now I would like to hear if you have any other reads.
It didn't really work that well, except on you, so I should know how stupid it was.
I have to take care of scheduling stuff now, so I'll give you those reads if you don't get lynched before I come back. (If so I'll just give 'em to everybody else.) I wanted to post this, because I didn't want you to throw a tantrum because I suddenly stopped posting.
How long does it take to say "I think x is town, I think x is scum?" You could have easily made the post 5 times in the time you wasted dodging my question.
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You wound me, Caesar.
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Caesar,
I know I left too much mess and
destruction to come back again
And I caused nothing but trouble
I understand if you can't talk to me again
And if you live by the rules of "it's over"
then I'm sure that that makes sense
I will go down with this ship
And I won't put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
I'm in love and always will be
I know I left too much mess and
destruction to come back again
And I caused nothing but trouble
I understand if you can't talk to me again
And if you live by the rules of "it's over"
then I'm sure that that makes sense
I will go down with this ship
And I won't put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
I'm in love and always will be
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↑ mykonian wrote:Regarding previous post.
Baiting like that from anatole tends to get a response of sorts. It's out there enough for people to do something about it. There wasnothing. The votes at the time they came made sense as well. I don't know why that got shot down as quickly as it was. Something to remember.
Next quote is more direct: if he's scum, post count is his scumtell, not his towntell. Posting lots and making few stances but a lot of explanations is a strong defensive tactic, which some players employ specifically as scum.
So, anatole, what do you study?
Regarding flubby, I don't think I get him. His play is erratic. Csareo, by chance, would you still have a link to the place where you know flubber from?
What do I study academically, you mean?
I hate self-meta and don't expect anyone to believe this (but others brought it up), but if you look at my games I lurked pretty hard in the few I was scum.
I think Espresso and Beli are probably scum.
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I graduated with a double major bachelor's in history & international studies and minors in political science and french.
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I'm just excited to hear back from Espresso. I got a hearty laugh from his posts yesterday.
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People feign outrage all the time as scum.
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I don't know if Csareo's vote on me is any more scummy than Espresso's bullshit "reaction test" into "I think you may be a power role..", "HAHA I WAS WRONG YOU ARE TOTALLY SCUM LOOK AT YOU FLAIL!" after I make one comment about his case being dumb, into completely avoiding my asking him for reads which he said he would post "tomorrow" two days ago.
And reck, your voting with espresso is even dumber than the dumb vote from farside you're referring to. Like, his case is that I have been trying to push every little thing I could, but I didn't even vote him after his horrendous series of "please play the game for me" posts. So how does that even follow?
And reck, your voting with espresso is even dumber than the dumb vote from farside you're referring to. Like, his case is that I have been trying to push every little thing I could, but I didn't even vote him after his horrendous series of "please play the game for me" posts. So how does that even follow?
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He predicated his case on a reaction test that didn't even work. I bitched at him for being a waste of space in the game after he offered to replace out in lieu of actually playing. And didn't vote him. That's evidence for me trying to lynch anything at all.
Was threatening to replace out part of the reaction test? Is that the impression you got reck?
Was threatening to replace out part of the reaction test? Is that the impression you got reck?
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I've played with him twice, once as each alignment. He played equally poorly/scummily as both scum and town. What's your point?
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And he was scummy in addition to being childish. Nobody is voting him just because he was acting childish.
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I think the list is weird because, as has been mentioned, Reck isn't playing like town Reck.
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I played with him in one game - he didn't seem like he would go along with such a mindless case on a whim.
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↑ Espressojet wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Until someone asks him something he doesn't want to answer.
I'll admit, that's actually how I'd prefer to play all the time. I'm bad at forcing conversations to start discussion, and whenever I do I either get lynched or heavily scumread because of it.
What does you forcing conversations have anything to do with you dodging a legitimate question than town players should be jumping to discuss - ie. the point of the game?
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What do you think I was referring to when I said "Until someone asks him something he doesn't want to answer."?
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↑ xRECKONERx wrote:
why
MattP
why
Null:
Farside (townlean)
why
Ki-gi slot
why
Flubber (scumlean)
why
Reck (scumlean)
why
Beli (scumlean)
why
Scum:
Csar (Null-lean)
why
SSK
why
Myko
why
Anatole (Scummiest read)
why
ok this now while you're here
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but I didn't even give you a good story
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vez and flubber, if you are not already voting espresso, you should since you have both expressed he was scummy
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What point farside? I don't know who is scum with espresso, it's stupid to speculate on that without a flip
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I find it weird that there are like 3 or 4 people who say they would vote for espresso but are not, and other very vocal players just ignoring him. I'm more or less v/la over the weekend which is why my posting is a little sporadic right now. We need to be conscious of the lynch deadline though.
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I'll go back to TSO, but I'm more confident in scum between Espresso and Beli than in TSO.
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What insight do you think a TSO lynch would really give us?
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I think there is a decent chance beli and reck are scum, regardless of espresso's alignment.
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↑ xRECKONERx wrote:VOTE: farside22
Preemptive, reactionary vote on me after agreeing with vezok
Tries to push vezok as scum because he's "pushing a newbie" as if that's fucking relevant
Uses cherry picked meta (literally 20% of my games this year, probably a smaller percentage if you go back 2-3 years) to say that my behavior this game is scum and out of line with my "town meta" because I WASN'T A JERK IN ONE GAME
It just reeks
If this is the sum of the case against farside, it's pretty weak. She played like this (aggressive, frequently wrong, botched reasoning and difficult to understand) in the last game I played with her when she was town. It's going to be hard to discern her alignment with any certainty without flips
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Then sum up your case more effectively. You are literally complaining without doing anything to produce a solution.
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Aggressive, check
Tries to push vezok as scum because he's "pushing a newbie" as if that's fucking relevant
wrong, hard to understand
Uses cherry picked meta (literally 20% of my games this year, probably a smaller percentage if you go back 2-3 years) to say that my behavior this game is scum and out of line with my "town meta" because I WASN'T A JERK IN ONE GAME
It just reeks
botched reasoning.
so what part isn't like her town play?
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I also want to clarify that 100% of mafia players use botched reasoning to justify wagons they think are right at some point or another and it's not meant to be insulting or anything - we won the game I'm referring to and farside did have one of the scum pegged. Just saying, in this case it's not a scumtell necessarily and the case is pretty weak regardless.
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- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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That tends to happen when 95% of your content is just complaining about other wagons instead of being proactive.
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At this point it would be like lynching a whining dog. Which is a sad as fuck thought.
- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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I'm pretty close to BARELY getting a lynch in before deadline and on someone who I think is scum. What isn't productive about that?
I said proactive though.
I said proactive though.
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↑ Espressojet wrote:Jesus, FUCK, don't lynch me I'm the COP!!
This is my first time with this role (or any power role for that matter) and I got SUPER excited and I've been really trying to investigate everyone and try to decide who I was gonna check at night! I was so defensive cuz I didn't want to have to claim so early!
FUCK! I didn't want to die night one!! Goddammit!
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ Espressojet wrote:Jesus, FUCK, don't lynch me I'm the COP!!
This is my first time with this role (or any power role for that matter) and I got SUPER excited and I've been really trying to investigate everyone and try to decide who I was gonna check at night! I was so defensive cuz I didn't want to have to claim so early!
FUCK! I didn't want to die night one!! Goddammit!
↑ Espressojet wrote:I didn't want to have to claim, but I guess I'm betting on the fact that there's a doc or some other shit.
I am claiming bus driver (F-15)
So get your goddamn votes off me.
these claims are very similar
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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does it hurt espresso? to see all those missed night kills fly away in the morning winds?
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Damn, if only I had known it was that easy for you to be swayed of my innocence in a game based on deception. Just a single taunt. Boom, erases all the anti-town shit you said.
Alright maybe we should call this one off guys.
Alright maybe we should call this one off guys.
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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So you could ask questions like that and waste our time, or you thought he was a PR.
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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- Anatole Kuragin
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Anatole Kuragin
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ugh, seriously just read matt and csareo's ISOs - they're either masons or a scumteam
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↑ Csareo wrote:Holy shit, where to start. 7 pages already?
There appears to be a circle of "mattp, anatole, and farside" who are just grasing for straws for some kind of scum tell.
Mattp definitely set off alarms with his voting. I mean, seriously?
Anatole appears to be joking more than he is scum hunting.
I think farside seems townish.
Flubber is an idiot. Trust me, I've reviewed his games. His meta will constantly insult people and buddy with everyone who he's not insulting.
Mykrno your read is null ATM.
Reckoner you are null ATM.
Everyone else is null.
↑ Csareo wrote:My scum reads are
- vez
- reckoner
- MattP (null lean)
Mostly for buddying and suspicious behavior from reckoner.
We have a cold case of "defending over hunting".
Another tip off was your read list and vote switching, which made me think for awhile.
Expresso and anatole seemed like easy policy lynch targets, so it looked like you're sheeping.
Reckoner also seemed to back your reads, which was slightly suspicious.
Can you give justifications for your reads now, since I just did upon your request.
Let's not forget, I never voted you....
↑ Csareo wrote:I can't connect the interaction I just saw.
The reaction from Mattp to that post was simply to over exaggerated and crazy to be true.
Even if it was a stupid post, which it was not, the fact that mattp staged an acted and fake performance of being a "rabid jackass" was neither amusing or town.
these posts all scream "this guy is my scum partner"
same for matt incoming - the holes between these posts are noncommital votes/cases on lots of people for basically no reason, or townreads for no reason
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↑ MattP wrote:There's no way you could play the helpless and confused cards and be scumhunting and expressing scum reads so timidly so early in the game and not be scum. None of your reads have any UMPH behind them and you're choosing the most bizarre things to focus on.
All of the louder players of the game have at the very least commented on a few of these traits of yours, and yet they're distracted. I'd like to point out that myko PROBABLY is displaying these traits because he:
1. is scum and is overwhelmed with the player base
2. is unable to overcome his admission of guilt and therefore can't push a town player hard enough
3. is biased in seeing town player's moves as townlike and therefore is reaching for unnatural things to call out so that at least it looks like he's doing something
I think if myko is scum you could pretty much figure out a bunch of people's alignments, but just from the get-go that Ki-Gi is town
P-edit: Csareo is a lazy vote this early in the game.It's not going to derive any information and he can be dealt with later.
↑ MattP wrote:↑ mykonian wrote:If I were scum I'd love to get away with playing like that.
It looks active, but makes little waves. Little of what he says can come back to him and the little that did got strung out to the point where nobody but farside and he read it at which point townies zone out and assume it to be 50/50 and let it be for the time being. It's a defensively strong playstyle, because with each post seems "useful", while in the end there are few results to show. What this game would need is wagons but in no way could anatole make them happen playing like that, so at no point he has to step out and let himself be judged on his stances.
The playstyle would work perfectly for scum, and have limited use as town. If only it made him scum.
Anatole's entire game so far has consisted of getting an early read on me, moving onto Ki-Gi, and immediately becoming swept up in a counter-productive 8 page argument with farside. The situation with farside was led by farside and Anatole was just indignantly responding, and I don't think indignance fueling 8 pages of crap is scum-motivated considering I've done that myself as town many times (and have gotten similar shit for it as anatole is getting now). I think you're being short-sided because you're not acknowledging that anatole certainly got the short end of the stick so far this game with being tunneled by a clear town farside and has been responding in a clearly natural way of someone who thinks highly of himself and believes the shit he is getting is ridiculous.He's trying to change to a more productive string of conversation by pushing a Csareo wagon now.Nothing he's done has set off any alarms in my head.
p-edit: Myko has explicitly stated he feels lost in certain portions of the game, has reads but noone will listen so he's given up on pushing and feels like he will just join a different game in 2 weeks. I think this is pretty insane given we're 24 hours into this game
some pro bussing going on
matt brings this grasping at straws thing up like a million times
↑ MattP wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:don't know if Csareo's vote on me is any more scummy than Espresso's bullshit "reaction test" into "I think you may be a power role..", "HAHA I WAS WRONG YOU ARE TOTALLY SCUM LOOK AT YOU FLAIL!" after I make one comment about his case being dumb, into completely avoiding my asking him for reads which he said he would post "tomorrow" two days ago.
I was JUST thinking about this being the scummiest thing that's happened so far in the game, and then I ran into this thread to recheck it and saw the situation with vizak/reck/farside
Reck is town, but I need to look over some stuff
↑ MattP wrote:↑ farside22 wrote:Can you explain why the bold makes sense to do as scum.
Also why you think this when ki was on you null list
This sounds like your saying I know it's a mislynch and will use it to lynch reck/vezo because of that instead of shitty fake reads and never mind ki being scum read for ever in a day?
You saying you ignore the later for a reason?
Ki was on my null list specifically, as I stated, because having been gone for 5 days made him fall out of my town list since reads fade over time without constant reminding. I thought Ki was town when he was actively engaged in discussion.
I explained in the post why it makes sense for scum to do. And I'm not entertaining the idea as something I legitimately care about / believe at this moment, it simply made me hesitant about who to lynch today in the condition you were scum, and entertaining the idea put me more at ease with lynching espresso over csareo since I highly doubt you as scum would have chainsawed csareo so hard, especially when reck came into the equation. I think it would be much more likely csareo was town were you scum.
So he basically goes back and forth calling Csareo scummy or pointing out his scummy behaviors, while defending him or calling a lynch on him a bad idea even though he put Csareo in his own pool of people to lynch.
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