===Mini 1615: Locked in the Asylum=== GAME OVER
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based on analysis of posting style in the scum qt, tsq is definitely mafia
VOTE: the status quo
VOTE: the status quo
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↑ Thestatusquo wrote:↑ shaddowez wrote:↑ Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:The optimum scum strategy would be to vote to get some coffee as soon as they've found a mislynch they can pursue. Scums will want to end the day with the least amount of information possible and to do this without being suspected, they will likely be calling to get coffee when they feel they could get a mislynch going. Scums are not going to expect townies to agree that their mislynch of choice is the best lynch for the day.
Even if scum were going to do this, don't you think spelling out "optimum scum strategy" is a bad idea?
P-Edit:I'm pretty sure mine is on
Really don't like this kind of hand-wringing. Reads to me like someone looking for something to attack without actually thinking about the game on a deeper level. Figuring out what scum strategy is most likely to be and then using that to determine who is most aligned with scum strategy in the way they're playing the game is like actual mafia 101.
I also don't really like the well poisoning here. "Even if this were true." is a vague attack on the points SSBF is bringing up without actually attacking them. I'm very suspicious of people who throw aspersions on other players ideas without contributing their own or at least explaining why those ideas are not correct.
Vote: Shaddowez
I actually agree with Shadowwez - this would have been a more effective tool if super smash had waited until people started voting or discussing it. It's going to be entirely null now. Also, it's pretty common for games to just get mired in directionless inactivity to scum's advantage, so I don't see it as inherently scummy to try and advance the game to push through that. Seems like a silly reason to vote him considering you then bitched about people not making cases yet.
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↑ Thestatusquo wrote: How could I have been so stupid?
dunno, maybe try some night classes at the local community college?
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You're being obnoxious and childish for no real reason. The strategy is flawed. I would be surprised if more than you and smash disagreed.
And you dismissed what I said by just calling us idiots.
You actually articulated your position on the subject and then engaged with it, instead of being vaguely dismissive of what the person said and then being like OMG THIS IS BAD BOOGYMAN BOOGYMAN BOOGYMAN.
And you dismissed what I said by just calling us idiots.
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↑ LimMePls wrote:↑ LynxKuroneko wrote:I can easily see one of SSBF, Metal Sonic or LynchMePls being scum, because that can read as a nicely played out bus / distance
If it were bussing or distancing, why would only one of us be scum?
Flail harder pls.
Flailing is statistically proven to be a trait of townies more often than scum.
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I'm still fine with lynching the Lynx/UT slot.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... t=flailing
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... t=flailing
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↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:I'm still fine with lynching the Lynx/UT slot.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... t=flailing
Actually use this link - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22126 - the other had my "faliling" search from when I looked the thread up
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↑ LimMePls wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Flailing is statistically proven to be a trait of townies more often than scum.
↑ Psyche wrote:evaluating the 101 most recent accusations
**SNIP**
In truth, this is neither a conclusive nor a direct investigation of the efficacy of "flailing" as a tell. I did not investigate flailing, and whether my sample of 101 accusations is sufficient to draw conclusions is debatable. But I felt lik giving you what I had.
Not even REMOTELY approaching "statistically proven". There are may large flaws in that. For one, sample size is not nearly large enough. For two, the quality of the player(s) making the flailing accusation and the player being accused of the flailing seems to be ignored.
Even so, read his conclusion:
↑ Psyche wrote:Is 9% enough to call flailing a scumtell? It's probably a weak one, at best. But it's definitely not a reason NOT to lynch someone. It's just not a reason in an of itself. Many a vote I studied was based mostly or entirely on a player's supposed flailing. That doesn't seem like a good basis for a lynch.
So, I think the thrust of his argument is that flailing is not in itself sufficient to push for a lynch. But his own numbers seem to support that it is more likely to come from scum than town. It just shouldn't be given more weight over what he considers "more substantial points".
Did you read that at all?
not really, I was in a game recently where someone posted that link and said the same thing I did. nobody questioned it.
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on that note, I just realized I shouldn't have even posted about it. sorry. thought it was a finished game
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↑ Thestatusquo wrote:Dude, you realize that just randomly searching for the word "flailing" does not constitute a statistical correlation between the actual act of flailing and being town, right?
Once again lynx I was not kidding. Answer my fucking question.
The point is that accusations of flailing are typically directed at townies to a degree where an accusation or perception of flailing does not mean anything about the target's alignment, according to the data.
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It doesn't make someone accused of faliling automatically town, but townies DO flail often
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↑ LimMePls wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ Thestatusquo wrote:Dude, you realize that just randomly searching for the word "flailing" does not constitute a statistical correlation between the actual act of flailing and being town, right?
Once again lynx I was not kidding. Answer my fucking question.
The point is that accusations of flailing are typically directed at townies to a degree where an accusation or perception of flailing does not mean anything about the target's alignment, according to the data.
Except the data from that post doesn't even REMOTELY say that. Which I just demonstrated with quotes.
Still haven't read it, I need to work on my skimming ability.
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*Programs LynchMePls with standards of human sense of humor*
sorry this must have been left out of your original build
sorry this must have been left out of your original build
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Didn't say I didn't agree with the Lynx lynch, but it's pretty clear now it was a bad lynch. LMP was trying to incriminate someone for not mislynching (along with the rest of us).
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↑ PeregrineV wrote:↑ Konowa wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:This would be the town thought flow. I don't get how waiting for him to spill stuff in the QT while he was getting lynched here is in any way town.
Except that is a gross misrepresentation by you. I was waiting for him to post -anything- and that was before enough votes to drink coffee occurred. I wasn't waiting for him to "spill stuff" I was waiting for -anything- game relevant. I can go into greater detail if necessary, and at that point we would be crossing more into theory so I'd rather not.
More game related, why the facepalm over LMP saying I'm town for my vote on Anatole? Do you disagree that Anatole is likely scum?
I'm saying why would you wait for him? How do you scumhunt him by waiting for him?
As for Anatole, I said back in day1 he looks nothing like his Timeshift game (where he was scum, and I thought he was town because he was playing/trying/etc.). Since his scum meta is *doing something*, pretty sure his doing jack-shit in this game means he's town. I'm sad it's that way, but there you have it.
I'm a late bloomer as town. I'd rather wait and have some facts before making cases than blindly and loudly push lynches on townies, creating white noise that scum can hide in.
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↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:↑ Konowa wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:This would be the town thought flow. I don't get how waiting for him to spill stuff in the QT while he was getting lynched here is in any way town.
Except that is a gross misrepresentation by you. I was waiting for him to post -anything- and that was before enough votes to drink coffee occurred. I wasn't waiting for him to "spill stuff" I was waiting for -anything- game relevant. I can go into greater detail if necessary, and at that point we would be crossing more into theory so I'd rather not.
More game related, why the facepalm over LMP saying I'm town for my vote on Anatole? Do you disagree that Anatole is likely scum?
I'm saying why would you wait for him? How do you scumhunt him by waiting for him?
As for Anatole, I said back in day1 he looks nothing like his Timeshift game (where he was scum, and I thought he was town because he was playing/trying/etc.). Since his scum meta is *doing something*, pretty sure his doing jack-shit in this game means he's town. I'm sad it's that way, but there you have it.
I'm a late bloomer as town. I'd rather wait and have some facts before making cases than blindly and loudly push lynches on townies, creating white noise that scum can hide in.
I should have made all of this one post but - I've been burned doing this exact thing. 500 posts in a mini pushing someone and I was wrong, let scum lurk all game. LMP seems to be making the same mistake.
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I'm not so sure, but I see town take center-stage and push townies for no reason more often than scum.
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↑ Konowa wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:I'm saying why would you wait for him? How do you scumhunt him by waiting for him?
I didn't want to go into theory, but fine. Lynx was a replacement. Instead of prompting the discussion and going into my entire thought process I was waiting to see his thought process since it was a fresh set of eyes. Yes, he was posting in thread, but I really wasn't paying too much attention to what anyone was saying D1. He posted -nothing- game relevant in our QT. There was no "Hey, Konowa what do you think about this?" or "This is who I think is scum, what do you think?" or even final thoughts if he thought he could be wrong.
↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Didn't say I didn't agree with the Lynx lynch, but it's pretty clear now it was a bad lynch. LMP was trying to incriminate someone for not mislynching (along with the rest of us).
It's not so much that you agreed with the Lynx lynch, but the fact that you agreed and now are trying to turn around and pin the entire thing on LMP.
That's not at all what I'm doing. Read my posts again.
LMP said he was suspicious of Matt for NOT voting Lynx. Voting Lynx was, in retrospect, a bad move. I didn't say it was all LMP's fault that we lynched Lynx, but it was a lynch that LMP was on the wrong side of and Matt wasn't.
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↑ Konowa wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:Since I suspect you might be scum, your vote on Anatole does not lead me to deduce anything about Anatole's alignment.
LMP's vote on Anatole likewise does not change my opinion of Anatole's alignment, since LMP is still an unsure read for me.
So what is your read on Anatole then?
Anatole, the phrasing in #386 suggests otherwise.
I consider LMP to have been one of the driving forces for that lynch. I don't see how you can come to a different conclusion reading yesterday.
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↑ MattP wrote:↑ Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:MattP is very confident about UT being scum > MattP considers UT and Metal Sonic to be scum but considers Metal Sonic to be a stronger suspect > MattP considers Lynx to be a townie that's playing badly and that he's an "easy" lynch.
It has to do with seeing the dynamic of the lynch progression. I don't believe this was a buildup on a scum player based on said progression
↑ MattP wrote:↑ LynxKuroneko wrote:Feel like explaining what makes my play horrendous? I've heard it several times, yet I'm just stating what I observe.
Yet several others in games I have been are just... either trolls or don't bother to put in much effort, up until their lynch.
Perhaps if I knew what was "horrendous" about my play, I could maybe stop playing like that. Maybe.
I am saying you're playing horrendously because the timing of your claim did not make sense. You should have claimed if you were in threat of lynch after the coffee phase. It looked very poorly executed, and you got beef for it. That was a very bad play, but I, in this case, believe you were acting as a new player being bullied by a player and didn't understand the issue with such an early claim. I think your posts are flaily but it's because you are overwhelmed with the level of aggression in the game and did not expect such a negative experience. I think this is EXACTLY why such a hostile game is not only unfun but also counter-productive because it stifles conversation and, separately, fuels mislynches.
↑ MattP wrote:↑ Metal Sonic wrote:And I'm town as hell so you'd better back the FUCK down
First off, I meant you are on the backburner from the perspective of everyone else. A wagon began forming on you and immediately died down when UT was anti-town and the transition feels like a scum -> town one.
Second, outside of the context of this game, do not curse at me. I don't need to tolerate that. I'm participating in this because it is enoyable, this is a game, I don't get when this forum started gaining such a meta for insulting people. Cut it out, thank you.
Third, I think if you were actually town you would be able to look at your play fairly and say it at least hasn't been eminently "towny" up to this point. You could at least argue the actions you've taken haven't been alignment indicative, but I think you are posturing by so hyper-aggressively asserting you've been super-town to this point that it should be obvious. Cursing in all caps is ridiculously over-the-top, and I believe it is scummy in this context.
↑ MattP wrote:I skimmed, and I believe that Lynx is just playing horrendously. I believe his posts are "scummy" but I believe his unhappiness with the game and feeling of town being bullied is authentic. I think this is an easy lynch, and I think that MS slipped to the back burner BECAUSE he is scum, and this easy lynch drew traction with no resistance easily, all through from UT onward, because the slot is very potentially town.
I think LMP is the clearest town player in the game currently.
VOTE: MS
I think these posts just support Matt's claim that he found both slots (MS and Lynx/UT) scummy, but MS moreso. Later in the day (the posts I've quoted) he seems to think Lynx was just a noob playing anti-town but largely due to the aggression against his slot. I don't think it looks like he's sure of the town flip at all.
Which posts in particular support your claim that he used language giving the impression he knew for sure it was a mislynch?
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Like any townie I find it really obnoxious when very vocal players come in, run the town, and fail at doing so pushing mislynch after mislynch. If you lynched me, you would be 0/2. I'm trying to put an end to that. I could have expressed my frustration with you in a more productive way than the fatuous post you quoted.
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I'm not absolving myself or anyone else from the lynx mislynch, but Matt's reasoning against it yesterday was a very level-headed, and ultimately correct, analysis of the wagon and cases against the slot at that point. I'm more inclined to defend and follow him for those reasons.
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GUY, the timer you're looking at is counting down to the MINIMUM time spent in boring phase, ie we can't get coffee until then. It's not the max.
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↑ Metal Sonic wrote:tbh dryfit is my strongest scumread right now
I could get behind a dry-fit lynch.
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I react more casually to players who seem to have a casual attitude. is that a new chapter in mafia theory for the ages?
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Your reasoning in 412 isn't good enough. What I said to LMP is completely valid and I've explained it a few times.
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↑ Konowa wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Your reasoning in 412 isn't good enough. What I said to LMP is completely valid and I've explained it a few times.
How is it not good enough? Clearly the intent of the post was to make LMP look worse for the wear for his push on Lynx. I don't see any town process behind it.
Nah, you're wrong sorry dude.
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And for the tenth time that's not what I said. Learn to read or come up with a new excuse to lynch me.
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this is the worst wagon ever
no valid reasoning at all is being put into votes
no valid reasoning at all is being put into votes
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I was playing devil's advocate. But as you will soon read, I didn't even read that link.
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I thought I had a better read on UT and when he would/wouldn't act outraged than I did. I thought he was acting unnaturally.
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I don't have a great explanation - I just thought he was more easy-going than he behaved in this game.
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That was in reference to LMP's open recently where I had like 1/2 of the posts in the game and probably my worst play ever.
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sorry, I meant SMP's open* http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=58599
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yeah well you've played with me where I was town and I'm pretty sure I had the same attitude. farside and matt have as well. You're the one who tried to submit a personality evaluation as evidence.
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↑ PeregrineV wrote:↑ Titus wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Sorry pere, all I have is gut.
This is concerning to me. You do not generally rely on gut as town.
@Anatole- I was looking for a response to this before I brought it up, but finished reading and didn't see it. Please respond.
I don't have any cases to reveal. I like where farside is going on konowa though.
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↑ LimMePls wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:↑ Titus wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Sorry pere, all I have is gut.
This is concerning to me. You do not generally rely on gut as town.
@Anatole- I was looking for a response to this before I brought it up, but finished reading and didn't see it. Please respond.
I don't have any cases to reveal. I like where farside is going on konowa though.
Ya, I bet you do.
Vote: coffee
you're pretty obnoxious
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↑ PeregrineV wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:↑ PeregrineV wrote:↑ Titus wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Sorry pere, all I have is gut.
This is concerning to me. You do not generally rely on gut as town.
@Anatole- I was looking for a response to this before I brought it up, but finished reading and didn't see it. Please respond.
I don't have any cases to reveal. I like where farside is going on konowa though.
I was more referring to Titus statement that, as town, you do not generally rely on gut.
I rely on gut at the beginning of games and transition to evidence when I think I've found something substantive. I think most people do this, they just tend to try and twist evidence to support their gut.
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this doesnt even make any sense
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We have 26 hours for a lynch. It's going to be Konowa or Dry-fit. Don't care which.
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↑ LimMePls wrote:
If this were town-town, I'd expect one of them to already have been hammered. See how easy that day one wagon went after the hypothetical hammer. Super quick coffee, super quick lynch. The Konowa push in the face of AK lynch has all the hallmarks of a scum counterwagon to me.
Town tend to be suspicious of everyone.
IMO this is the crux of most fail towns. You can't be suspicious of everyone and ever hope to win this game. You have to identify likely town and work with them. Of course you have to be open to re-evaluation, but paranoia does not breed successful towns.
Who are the likely townies?
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I pushed against coffee but pointing out that there is no legitimate case against the hypothetical lynch and you idiots pushed it through anyways.
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It's not just for amusement purposes - if you hadn't "imaginary hammered" then a coffee vote wouldn't have been successful.
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Well your self-amusement put us in a really shitty position because we have 24 hours to figure out shit we could have had another 9 days for.
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Guyett, ika, Metal Sonic, Titus, LynchMePls, PeregrineV
coffee votes.
Including Pere, who didn't think I was scum. Why would you vote for coffee if you weren't scumreading the top lynch candidate?
coffee votes.
Including Pere, who didn't think I was scum. Why would you vote for coffee if you weren't scumreading the top lynch candidate?
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↑ LimMePls wrote:pedit; the hypotetical lynch is just for amusement purpous
I am so sick of this mindset. Seriously thinking about replacing out because of it. This is an AWFUL view of the game, and it is being bred by the ruleset.
@AK: Obv I think Konowa. I hated SSBF, but farside is making me feel better about it. Sadly just about everyone else has lurked/fluffed/not-engaged into null-dom, or is actively scummy. From D1, TSQ was my hands down no question town read, c'est la vie.
It's really interesting that you're bitching about other people doing dumb shit with the mechanics of the game considering you voted for coffee to lynch someone who you have shit-all for a case against.
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Which wasted 9 or 10 days that people could have figured the game out in at their own speed.
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↑ shos wrote:
This was the last imaginative VC:
shaddowez (1) - farside22.
Konowa (2) - PeregrineV, MEtal Sonic.
Anatole Kuragin (5) - Konowa,Titus, LynchMePls, Guyett, ika.
Guyett (2) - shaddowez, Dry-Fit.
Not Voting (1) - Anatole Kuragin.
[/color]NOTICES:
1. I'm going to a trip in Thu-Sat. I should be able to keep modding via phone(s), but in case I'm late in responding to stuff, forgive me.
OFFICIAL VOTES FOR COFFEE:6 in, 6 needed.COFFEE PHASE START!
Guyett, ika,Metal Sonic,Titus, LynchMePls,PeregrineV.
Blue is people who voted for both
Yellow are votes for coffee and not the hypothetical lynch
p-edit - The thing is, LMP, both of you are responsible for throwing away a lot of time town could have had
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The yellow names should be under a lot of scrutiny because that is 100% anti-town behavior.
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When PV voted for coffee he didn't seem to have any intention of voting for me as the clear leader in the hypothetical vote counts.
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we don't have nearly enough info to try and make that assertion. I'd be happy to vote for MS, PV, Konowa, or Dry-Fit as of now
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Fortunately PV still seems to be posting so he can address the question of why he voted for coffee.
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↑ ika wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:we don't have nearly enough info to try and make that assertion. I'd be happy to vote for MS, PV, Konowa, or Dry-Fit as of now
if you disagree with it why? instead of jsut going "nah" tell me what doesnt fit about it. i need speculations to work with
I don't disagree with the possibility that those three names are scum, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say it's likely
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PV - when you have 11 days to discuss a lynch and deliberately cut it down to 2 days while townreading the most likely lynch, it's crippling the town's ability to lynch scum.
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Ok, I guess I was misreading the deadline somehow. It still doesn't make sense to vote for coffee without confidence in the lynch unless you're 48 hours from deadline.
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so far the times when you weren't posting you were more helpful so that's not really a problem
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The three people I was most suspicious about yesterday were all off the guyett wagon. I think at least one of MS, Konowa, PV are scum. PV probably isn't teamed with either of the other two, and also would have bussed Guyett a bit despite not voting for him.
MS tried to make a case for LMP being scum right after he scumread Guyett, so that could be a worthwhile association.
MS tried to make a case for LMP being scum right after he scumread Guyett, so that could be a worthwhile association.
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It just makes sense to me. You had almost no interaction at all with Guyett aside from saying he could be scum (with me). You also criticized Pere's reasoning, calling it confbias, after he said he didn't like you and Guyett.
You asked for a flash wagon on Titus or Guyett, which could be genuine rather than a bus.
I'd rather lynch MS.
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How do you know her reads are way off? The only PM you've seen is your own, right?
She started the wagon on scum yesterday.
What are you talking about?
She started the wagon on scum yesterday.
What are you talking about?
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↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:
It just makes sense to me. You had almost no interaction at all with Guyett aside from saying he could be scum (with me). You also criticized Pere's reasoning, calling it confbias, after he said he didn't like you and Guyett.
You asked for a flash wagon on Titus or Guyett, which could be genuine rather than a bus.
I'd rather lynch MS.
This ^ plus MS could be a mason.
Konowa and guy makes sense as a team to me. He said Guy, titus, and me were scum then was voting PV at the time of the lynch. He had no interaction with Guy except pseudo-defending him. His cases haven't made sense and it seems like he's just being reactive in general.
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It's a combination of factors - you keep making posts like this, where, instead of presenting any insight into reads or the game state, you just ask people to clarify their scumread on you. That kind of reactive posting is not pro-town.
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And making no cases on someone you
actually want to lynch
be it PV or whoever. You've complained multiple times about groupthink or circlejerking or narrow-views or whatever and you're not doing shit to produce a lynch.- Anatole Kuragin
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↑ Konowa wrote:↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:You think Farside's wagon on Guy looks like a bus?
I don't know, but trying to say dry-fit is scum is pretty non-sensical, even for her.
Do you disagree with what I just said to her?
I think you're not being fair because you're asserting Dry wouldn't have made a bus vote on Guy at that time, but you're entertaining the idea that Farside was bussing with her vote that seems just as much or more town than Dry's does.
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How many people in this game are at titus's thing?
Von, titusmeet is what they're calling a big mafia scum meetup that titus is throwing.
Von, titusmeet is what they're calling a big mafia scum meetup that titus is throwing.
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Isn't it up to the other players in the game if you're 1v1ing or not?
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I think it's worth a possible mislynch since it will literally win us the game if MS flips scum.
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I'd like more info from MS, since if he's telling the truth the game is open anyways. I was kinda stupid yesterday about the mason claim thing so sorry about that.
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like, someone misspells the word "families" in the QT. that should be damning enough for ika
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- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
The only way MS would make that claim as scum is if he was confident we did not have enough days to burn through enough of the narrowed lynch pool to see they're all innocents then also lynch him and his partner.
Metal Sonic - cop
Anatole Kuragin - claimed inno
PeregrineV - claimed inno
Titus - claimed ino
Farside22 - guessed inno
ika
Konowa
vonflare
if we for example, lynch konowa, ika, vonflare, and say MS, PV and Titus are killed, we're looking at
Anatole Kuragin - claimed inno
Farside22 - guessed inno
game over
It is perfectly within the realm of reason that this is a scum claim, but it's not one I would make as MS after a night with presumably a successful doc/guard/whatever. If he's lying, we don't have time to burn through 3 town flips.
Metal Sonic - cop
Anatole Kuragin - claimed inno
PeregrineV - claimed inno
Titus - claimed ino
Farside22 - guessed inno
ika
Konowa
vonflare
if we for example, lynch konowa, ika, vonflare, and say MS, PV and Titus are killed, we're looking at
Anatole Kuragin - claimed inno
Farside22 - guessed inno
game over
It is perfectly within the realm of reason that this is a scum claim, but it's not one I would make as MS after a night with presumably a successful doc/guard/whatever. If he's lying, we don't have time to burn through 3 town flips.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
If doc can confirm they protected MS we've won right now because they can protect ms tonight and get enough conftowns to win
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.
- Anatole Kuragin
- Anatole Kuragin
-
Anatole Kuragin
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: April 19, 2008
- Location: Right under join date, please.