A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Skybird]

Hi everyone! Are we all ready to sing?

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Hi Cakez, how ya doing?

[Skybird]

(To the theme from The Muppet Show)

Town

: It's time to do some lynching
It's time to beat the Night
It's time to meet the Townies on the Mafia Game Tonight!

Mafia

: It's time to put on false claims
It's time to start some fights
It's time to get a mis-lynch on the Mafia Game Tonight!

Serial Kille

r: Why do I always come here
My odds to win are lame
It's like a kind of torture
To have to play this game

All

: And now let's get things started
Why don't you get things started
It's time to get things started
On the most sensational, INSPIRATIONAL,

CELEBRATIONAL

,

MAFIATATIONAL

THIS IS WHAT WE CALL OUR MAFIA GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!

(Honk)

lol, this is good. How long did you work on it?

[Skybird]

True Ogre exists.

Witholding vote for now, not convinced that major conversationalists contain scum.

However Seniors could certainly be scum with what they've said so far and I like beeboy for the push. So I'm conflicted as I don't really buy the Sakura-scum argument but will entertain it.

Like Wrong Lynch's posting quantity so far, but the quality is lukewarm. Also waiting to see more from nacho-hydra, although I like the question he did ask.

Axelrod also involved in hydra-discussion after some comments in 56, 61, 68 which appear quite defensive/elusive. Keeping an eye on.

Skybird, greetings to your ancestors. What do you think of davesaz' posting so far? I would like to compare impressions.

I've played one or two games with Dave but not too recently. I liked his entrance. He jumped in and questioned something he saw. I also agreed with post 90 where he saw BeeBoy's buddy question as a potential trap. I read it the same way. Overall I'm leaning town on him. How about you? What do you think? Any players that stick out good or bad?

[Skybird]

Hi guys, I have a three day weekend and am planning to get caught up and into the game. Just posting to remind myself where I need to pick up reading, which is the top of page 13. Here's a few things bugging me so far:

From what I've read Beeboy is not making a ton of sense to me with his FS issue. I will need to re-read it but it seems to be based mostly on the buddies thing which I don't seen as AI.

Dram, can you explain your thoughts on Axel being scum?

[Skybird]

Hi Tammy! Good to see you are town this game.

Beeboy, Tammy has a good point in 566. I take her questioning as trying to see if there is something in your read that just isn't coming across to the rest of us.

(this is through the bottom of page 23)

[Skybird]

Hi guys, I have a three day weekend and am planning to get caught up and into the game. Just posting to remind myself where I need to pick up reading, which is the top of page 13. Here's a few things bugging me so far:

From what I've read Beeboy is not making a ton of sense to me with his FS issue. I will need to re-read it but it seems to be based mostly on the buddies thing which I don't seen as AI.

Dram, can you explain your thoughts on Axel being scum?

Dram, what are your reasons for Axel being scum? I just read your ISO and I didn't see anything about why you think he is scum.

[Skybird]

Fair answer.

I think I'm just curious because I want to be townread by more people so I don't have to scumhunt as "aggressively" this time.

What does this mean Ami? Why do you put aggressively in quotes?

[Skybird]

Fair answer.

I think I'm just curious because I want to be townread by more people so I don't have to scumhunt as "aggressively" this time.

What does this mean Ami? Why do you put aggressively in quotes?

In most of the games I've played here people tend to just call me aggressive, townread me, and then ignore me afterward.

So you want to be townread so you don't have to scum hunt? I'm struggling to understand your statement in 685 because it looks like you don't want to scum hunt. Your reply in 694 isn't helping me.

[Skybird]

Skybird, are you caught up? Any reads?

Yeah, I'm starting to do ISO's now to further my reads but right now here's where I am:

My strongest townread is Tammy. I'm feeling pretty confident she is town. Spiffah is also pretty town.

I'm leaning town on Dramonic. He's playing like he did in the last game I was in with him. I'm also leaning town on you.

I'm not sure about Beeboy. He's making a lot of noise and I don't see his push on FS. But maybe I'm missing something that FS has did that makes him scummy. FS is on my ISO list.

I'm trying to sort Ami right at the moment. I didn't like her statement in 685 because it sounds like she doesn't want to scum hunt.

I have a lot of null reads because they haven't posted or what they posted didn't make a big impression on me.

p-edit: TWL, what am I missing? Ami's post struck me as weird. Why does it not bother you?

[Skybird]

Fair answer.

I think I'm just curious because I want to be townread by more people so I don't have to scumhunt as "aggressively" this time.

Not scumreading this. I just got out of a game with Ami where she had to play incredibly aggressively because she replaced into the craziest scummiest slot. She had to play hard because we had reason to scumread her.

If she wants to be able to lay back a little bit and relax more through this game, that totally makes sense to me.

I'm trying to sort Ami right at the moment. I didn't like her statement in 685 because it sounds like she doesn't want to scum hunt.

...to be fair that is exactly what I said. It is a tiny struggle right now.

If something town or scum or interesting pops out at me I'll pursue it, but if not, I don't really feel like... trying to produce motivation that isn't there at the moment.

Just noting these two posts because Podo is soft defending Ami here. Possible association?

Ami, I appreciate your honesty but I'm not sure how to take it right now. I don't believe I've ever played with you so could you link the game where you had to try so hard that you have no/little motivation now? Please and thank you.

[Skybird]

So I really didn't like that Skybird post, and now looking at her ISO I'm not liking her thought process that just seems to jump from question to question between without any followup on those. That is a playstyle designed by scum to get along with peoples' reads.

Screw it it's still early. VOTE: Skybird Mirhawk can wait.

Go read some of my games Ami. This is the way I play all the time. Just like you, people have a problem with my playstyle too and I honestly don't care. Your decision to suddenly scum read me is noted.

[Skybird]

True Ogre exists.

Witholding vote for now, not convinced that major conversationalists contain scum.

However Seniors could certainly be scum with what they've said so far and I like beeboy for the push. So I'm conflicted as I don't really buy the Sakura-scum argument but will entertain it.

Like Wrong Lynch's posting quantity so far, but the quality is lukewarm. Also waiting to see more from nacho-hydra, although I like the question he did ask.

Axelrod also involved in hydra-discussion after some comments in 56, 61, 68 which appear quite defensive/elusive. Keeping an eye on.

Skybird, greetings to your ancestors. What do you think of davesaz' posting so far? I would like to compare impressions.

I've played one or two games with Dave but not too recently. I liked his entrance. He jumped in and questioned something he saw. I also agreed with post 90 where he saw BeeBoy's buddy question as a potential trap. I read it the same way. Overall I'm leaning town on him. How about you? What do you think? Any players that stick out good or bad?

Skybird, why do you reach out to True Ogre first?

He asked me a question. What are your thoughts on True Ogre?

[Skybird]

Reading through the last 4-5 pages gives me warm fuzzies on Ogre and Pied Piper. Both slots can be town for now.

The back and forth between Tammy and TWL was eh. More noise than anything AI to me.

[Skybird]

Skybird is scum

Why?

Skybird, are you caught up? Any reads?

Yeah, I'm starting to do ISO's now to further my reads but right now here's where I am:

My strongest townread is Tammy. I'm feeling pretty confident she is town. Spiffah is also pretty town.

I'm leaning town on Dramonic. He's playing like he did in the last game I was in with him. I'm also leaning town on you.

I'm not sure about Beeboy. He's making a lot of noise and I don't see his push on FS. But maybe I'm missing something that FS has did that makes him scummy. FS is on my ISO list.

I'm trying to sort Ami right at the moment. I didn't like her statement in 685 because it sounds like she doesn't want to scum hunt.

I have a lot of null reads because they haven't posted or what they posted didn't make a big impression on me.

p-edit: TWL, what am I missing? Ami's post struck me as weird. Why does it not bother you?

Have you ISO'ed anyone yet?

I find your post kind of weird. Mostly due to the fact that the people you comment on are pretty spread out between the various groups of players.

I am commenting on things as I see them. I'm really not quite sure what you are getting at with the spread out comment.

[Skybird]

I am commenting on things as I see them. I'm really not quite sure what you are getting at with the spread out comment.

In my head I have the town separated into several groups based on who they talk with the most as well as which wagon they're on.

The people in your list aren't ones I associate with each other.

I comment on what I see and in some instances who I know. For example, Tammy. I have played with her a few times and I feel this is her town game. Same with Spiffeh. I have also played with SirCakez before and I scum read him for his posting and he wasn't scum. I am being cautious about sorting him because I don't want to make that mistake again. I don't have an organized way I go through the player list and comment on people.

Why do you feel some people are associated together?

[Skybird]

Hi Cerb! Good to see you!

[Skybird]

I am commenting on things as I see them. I'm really not quite sure what you are getting at with the spread out comment.

In my head I have the town separated into several groups based on who they talk with the most as well as which wagon they're on.

The people in your list aren't ones I associate with each other.

I comment on what I see and in some instances who I know. For example, Tammy. I have played with her a few times and I feel this is her town game. Same with Spiffeh. I have also played with SirCakez before and I scum read him for his posting and he wasn't scum. I am being cautious about sorting him because I don't want to make that mistake again. I don't have an organized way I go through the player list and comment on people.

Why do you feel some people are associated together?

Apparently you forgot about me, Miss Reviver from Monogatari

No, I didn't forget you! <3 What do you think of PiedPiper? They keep making these long posts and my eyes glaze over before I've even started reading them.

[Skybird]

Skybird where did we play together before where you scumread me and I wasn't scum O.o

I just went looking for the game and I'm not seeing it. I'm not confusing you with someone else am I? I seem to be doing a lot of that lately.

[Skybird]

I'm trying to sort Ami right at the moment. I didn't like her statement in 685 because it sounds like she doesn't want to scum hunt.

And you think scum are more likely to be open about this?

Like you're not looking really in depth here and it bothers me. On the surface, Ami's comment about not scum hunting as aggressively looks a little weird, but what is the scum motivation in admitting this? You're singling this one point out because it's a little odd and harping on it even though it's not alignment indicative.

Just noting these two posts because Podo is soft defending Ami here. Possible association?

And you're already drawing associations despite saying you were still trying to sort Ami, all to support what I assume will turn into an Ami scum read?

For instance, what's the difference between podo defending Ami and myself defending FS earlier on? Or anyone defending anyone else?

I think you're reaching really far all so you can have a unique scum read.

And I have been able to identify town!Skybird relatively well in the past so this isn't a playstyle issue.

I haven't really gotten into the game yet. I thought I'd have more time this weekend but we were making maple syrup. This is the first time I've done this and it's been more fun than I thought it would be. Also more time consuming.

I'm not really seeing scum Ami now that I've had a chance to go back and re-read that interaction.

[Skybird]

Sleep well EP!

[Skybird]

UNVOTE:

Time to drop the RVS vote and get to work on finding scum.

[Skybird]

Happy easter! pdodge, still think Seniors should be lynched.

Snarky, why did you come in and naked vote Seniors in post 74and are still maintaining they should be lynched in the quoted post? What's your reasoning for thinking Seniors is scummy?

[Skybird]

I haven't found any scum hunting from the Cakes slot that I actually like.
Discuss.

Do you feel Cakez is more scummy than Seniors? If so, why?

[Skybird]

Either way, for me the swordsworth replace out is null, if you dont think he was pushing an agenda that's your PoV, but literally only one of his posts has content (if you can even call that content), and when your real life gets in the way of playing mafia you replace out, no matter what alignment you are.

I totally agree with this post (that you replace out if real life gets in your way). I had to do this a couple of months ago and it sucked because I really wanted to play that game but I just didn't have time. So yeah, swordsworth replacing out is not AI.

[Skybird]

Mirhawk, I'm re-reading the thread and working through ISO's. That's why you see the question to snarky.

And I never said I was good at this game. I just enjoy playing it.

[Skybird]

Mirhawk, in post 345 was a question to Sakura asking her thoughts on TWL and Dave. She responded to you immediately after in post 346. You say nothing in response. In post 878 you respond to Spiffeh calling TWL town with a no. Ten posts later you tell Spiffeh to quit townreading scum. If you are scum reading TWL why haven't you voted for them? Further, why aren't you pushing them?

p-edit: bad podo.

[Skybird]

Hi Ranger! Welcome to the game!

[Skybird]

Mirhawk, I'm re-reading the thread and working through ISO's. That's why you see the question to snarky.

And I never said I was good at this game. I just enjoy playing it.

This is the first Skybird post I think is really scummy.

Why do you think it's scummy?

[Skybird]

Ranger's entrance and catch-up feels town to me.

[Skybird]

@Tammy since you are here and I don't understand your position this game can you give a brief description on your read on me, seniors and ranger?

I'm here too and can give you my thoughts.

You - Didn't like your push on FS at first. But after going over your ISO overall your other questions and activity look town to me.

FS - I don't like the amount of time they spent complaining about your (BBoy) push on them. I also don't like that they are scum-reading me off one post. They like Ami's case on me even though that consists of Ami not liking my questions and assigning a scum motivation to it. EP and Hippy have both played with me before so they know how I am D1 in a large. Their position on me feels a lot like a slot keeping their options open to be able to jump on a

lynchbait

wagon. Leaning scum here.

Ranger - feels town. Ranger just got in the game and spent some time reading and putting forth reads as she went along. The posts read as open and forthright to me. I want to see more as we go along but for now, I'm not interested in lynching Ranger today.

VOTE: Friendless Seniors

[Skybird]

I'm here too and can give you my thoughts.You - Didn't like your push on FS at first. But after going over your ISO overall your other questions and activity look town to me.FS - I don't like the amount of time they spent complaining about your (BBoy) push on them. I also don't like that they are scum-reading me off one post. They like Ami's case on me even though that consists of Ami not liking my questions and assigning a scum motivation to it. EP and Hippy have both played with me before so they know how I am D1 in a large. Their position on me feels a lot like a slot keeping their options open to be able to jump on a lynchbait wagon. Leaning scum here.Ranger - feels town. Ranger just got in the game and spent some time reading and putting forth reads as she went along. The posts read as open and forthright to me. I want to see more as we go along but for now, I'm not interested in lynching Ranger today.VOTE: Friendless Seniors

Hippy has been largely absent. I agree you're probably town.

Why us over ranger?

Ranger feels more town, you feel more scum.

[Skybird]

I'm here, reading up now.

[Skybird]

TOWN
Tammy- Good

Amihan- Good

Spiffeh- Good

beeboy- Good

True Ogre- Good

WON'T LYNCH FOR NOW
The Pied Piper- I think some of the Nacho posting (at least I think it was Nacho) was good, but I honestly have no idea with this head, I want to say town but I think there were some things that prevented me from thinking that.

Mirhawk- the case on mirhawk I don't understand and early game was strong enough so that I will wait to see more from Mirhawk before considering lynching.

Ranger- This is really really "For now" because Ranger hasn't really pinged me enough to say I want to lynch her and there were a few posts that I did really like. I will talk to hiplop a bit about this

Cerb- Good, I think this is town play but I'm not entirely sure

Wrong Lynch- I don't remember anything making me want to evaluate wrong lynch more honestly. I think I might have to ISO them more though.

pistachio- probably good

podo- really flipping on this slot, so I want to see more before I actually consider lynching, I see a lot of good from podoboq, and clearly made an effort to connect with the game.

SHRUG
Snowman- Not enough to really evaluate this slot?

Dramonic- I'd rather not lynch Dramonic, I don't think that anything he did really merited a scumread so it confuses me that people want to vote him, it kinda shows me that people are targeting the low-content people because they don't actually have strong reads they want to push

Sakura- I don't know enough about this slot to actually say something of note

davesaz- don't really know enough about this slot. I'll ISO him when I have time

COULD LYNCH
Skybird- Hippy thinks skybird is town but 723 bad. Skybird seems to continually use the "my playstyle is just like this, don't scumread me" thing which is bad.

SirCakez- Logically, he kinda sucks. It could be because his style is just like that but I really don't understand most of the stuff that cakez scumreads people for

tictac- I see them following the big wagons- us, Ranger, Mirhawk, and going with the flow of the game, seems somewhat disconnected from the game, gives views on things but never really brings up things that she believes should be pushed, not really advancing game state?

Axelrod- I've already posted about Axelrod

-EP

I get scum read in every game I play because of my play style. Go look at my past games. people realize I'm town around day 2 or 3.

So other than post 723, what do you think is scummy?

[Skybird]

Oh my god skybird post is so scum as well.

Explain.

[Skybird]

No, I'm saying that's all you got. And I totally disagree that 723 was scummy in the first place.

EP, you are better than this. If I was really scum, you should be able to come up with much more evidence.

[Skybird]

No, I'm saying that's all you got. And I totally disagree that 723 was scummy in the first place.

EP, you are better than this. If I was really scum, you should be able to come up with much more evidence.

Oh? Really? What have you done that you think is so scummy that it would be easy for EP to find evidence?

Me? Nothing. That's the point.

[Skybird]

Oh my god skybird post is so scum as well.

Explain.

You are self proclaiming you are always scum read. That is a terrible defense

In spite of my suspicion of her, I must confirm that is indeed a fact, no matter how bad a defense it is.

Thanks Cerb, I think.

[Skybird]

I'll do the Ranger ISO and town case as soon as I get home, sorry for flaking on that.
I'm not as comfortable with a Seniors lynch anymore. I'd really prefer Mirhawk.

What has changed your read on Seniors?

[Skybird]

Hey EP, I hope everything turns out alright. *hugs*

[Skybird]

I'm here and will be checking in frequently. I'm still OK with my FS vote. I feel Ranger is town and won't be voting there.

[Skybird]

Now that I see who True Ogre is an alt of, I'm more convinced he is town. And before anyone asks, that is more a meta read but one I do feel good about.

[Skybird]

I am 100% okay with lynching Ranger to sort other people.

I'm looking to justify my Skybird read this way in fact.

I'm town reading Ranger. I'm not going to vote them. What about this is going to help you sort me?

[Skybird]

Darn, I just knew my town reads on Ranger and Tammy were correct.

I need to look at tictac before I vote there. I didn't really pay much attention to him yesterday.

[Skybird]

I read through Tictac's ISO. The conversation with beeboy early game didn’t indicate anything to me. I don’t see anything strongly AI from either of them. It was jut eh. Tictac comments on things but I didn’t see any strong feelings from him or any pushes. Right now I just put them as null on my reads list. I’d like to see more from them today so I can sort them one way or the other.

[Skybird]

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

[Skybird]

Sorry to see you go Beeboy.

I thought I'd be on more today but RL things came up.

[Skybird]

VOTE: tictac

I'm OK with this, but for the benefit of town, Cakez, you should make a real case.

In going through your ISO, you had tictac as a 5 on your scale from 1 to 7 with 7 being town. (post 1445) I don't see a case against tictac in your ISO. How about you making a case if you are OK with voting tictac.

[Skybird]

Dave, talk to me about why we need more dram votes please.

[Skybird]

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

You brought it up as a scum point against me. I'm responding with the truth.

After looking at last night's actions, how has that changed your reads?

[Skybird]

Cakez, why do you think Pist's miller claim is more town based?

I too would like to get this sorted before the game goes much further.
VOTE: Pistachion

[Skybird]

VOTE: tictac

I'm OK with this, but for the benefit of town, Cakez, you should make a real case.

In going through your ISO, you had tictac as a 5 on your scale from 1 to 7 with 7 being town. (post 1445) I don't see a case against tictac in your ISO. How about you making a case if you are OK with voting tictac.

Why don't you make your own cases? Who do you think is fishy and why?

I'm not the one saying tictac is scummy. Podo looks fishy here because he rated tictac pretty high on his town scale yesterday. Now he is calling tictac scum and asking other people to make a case. I've read through tictac's ISO. There's not a lot there one way or the other IMO. I also don't think that is unusual on day 1 in a large. But we now have flips to work with and it's time to get going. I want to see how both tictac and podo progress.

[Skybird]

Announcement: pistachi0n is town-aligned.

UNVOTE: pistachion

[Skybird]

Because literally the only thing she did was pop in, unvote and leave. No comment at all on Pist being IC or how shifty that wagon was.

What's there to comment about? Pist is now confirmed town. I voted her because I have True Ogre as town. It turns out through Mod communication that Pist is town. I unvoted. Then RL intervened and I had to go do other stuff.

[Skybird]

Dram, I think you are wrong on your Davesaz read. I feel he is town here. He hasn't been very active but he is reading the thread and asking questions.

You've commented on Axel. What about Podo makes you think he's scum?

[Skybird]

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

You brought it up as a scum point against me. I'm responding with the truth.

After looking at last night's actions, how has that changed your reads?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

[Skybird]

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

[Skybird]

Welcome itlepip!

I'm not sure what you mean with post 2648. Do you mean you tried to read him and can't quite figure him out? Or did you try to engage him? lynch him? What exactly did you try to do?

[Skybird]

who are your next best guesses for scum?

tictac

@everyone: I've been coming down with a 39ºC fever, hopefully this'll resolve soon, im not stating V/LA because i've already been inactive enough if it lasts enough to last past prod timer then i suggest i am replaced instead of prodded.

I hope you get to feeling better soon! Having a fever sucks.

[Skybird]

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

True Ogre, I wanted to get back to you on this since I didn't get a chance to finish out.

I want to scum read Mirhawk but I am going back and forth on this read. Part of the reason I want to scum read him is because he is scum reading me and I agree that is a really shitty reason to scum read someone. I don't think he's right on Dave being scum. I have Dave as town. Most of the things Mirhawk has pointed out against Dave are him asking meaningless questions and not taking strong stances. But town is going to disagree on who we think are scum so again, this isn't a strong reason for scum reading him. I did like post 879 from Mirhawk. That really reads town to me. I don't agree with calling FS town just because they are a fruit vendor which Mirhawk is basically doing. If I was a mod this would be a great scum role just because most people do read it as a town role. I also didn't like that Mirhawk didn't seem to give any consideration to those of us saying Ranger was town. Anyway, this is basically the argument I am having with myself about whether Mirhawk is town or scum.

[Skybird]

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

[Skybird]

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

[Skybird]

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

[Skybird]

Criminy, I spend an afternoon outside because it finally made it over 65 degrees around here for the first time this spring and you all choose now to start voting me.

I'm having a hard time finding scum this game. I've been looking at things and re-reading but I'm just not picking up on anything. I'm not sure what I need to do to find scum right now.

[Skybird]

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

Mirhawk's point was that he expected the scum not to look outside the major wagons and not to shake up the gamestate; I said what I said because I don't think that two town counter wagons would radically change how scum behaved. If they were the type of players to try to get something started outside of the two major wagons, then they probably would. If they weren't, than they wouldn't.
Does this make sense or are we still misunderstanding each other?

If I had to consolidate, it'd be on VOTE: Axel for his posts reeking of effort concealing motivation.

Not the biggest fan of my wagonmates but I'm not too fond of the other wagons.

Still mostly V/LA; will get access again later tonight.

I'd be happier with Skybird than Axel; why don't you like the Cakez wagon?

I think we are still misunderstanding each other PP.

To me, what you posted looked like a scum slip.

Where do you think the scum were at the end of D1? On the Ranger lynch wagon? On one of the counter wagons? Or on vanity wagons?

[Skybird]

-Ranger info

Lynching Ranger will basically explode open this game in terms of reads so even though I have this sick feeling she's going to flip town lynching her is the right play here.

What I was looking for here was for you to explain this quote, not so much look at Ranger's wagon and analyze it. I'd expect that if you were as town you'd have a specific idea wrt her wagon in mind (the only way she could get lynched as town is if there was a bunch of scum on her wagon) that would explain why you'd have a bunch of reads as a result of a Ranger lynch, but, if scum, I'd expect you felt a little bit awkward about joining the wagon of someone who you town read and so you posted this to justify jumping on it. Was what you meant by that quote simply that you thought Ranger's wagon would be very analyzable? Why?

-Spiffeh

At the beginning of the day today, you said that you were going to sheep Spiffeh's reads. The reason why that felt weird to me is because you said that if Ranger was town, you wanted Spiffeh to be your voteslave (suggesting that you thought your reads were better than Spiffeh's if Ranger was town). Could you talk about that?

The cause of that vote was because of the unvote and not commenting on anything else, which I find pretty bad considering an IC just revealed who was the leading wagon which means you should be reanalyzing and Skybird didn't.

Just because a player isn't reanalyzing in the same post that they unvoted doesn't mean that they aren't going to do any reanalyzing at all.

"Just sorting someone" is an excellent excuse to join a wagon without seriously committing.

"Getting this sorted" was a reference to the Ogre-Pistach interaction which did indeed need to be sorted.

That's straight up backtracking.

Well, yeah, but I'd find it weirder if Skybird didn't backtrack on her vote after Pistach revealed to be an IC... Wouldn't you?

-Yes I did, because it was an easy wagon especially towards the end so I wanted to look into the people who had been pushing it for a while off of weak reasoning, for example Mirhawk.
-That was mostly a joke since I was getting frustrated with Spiffeh for still pushing that wagon despite my strong town read on Ranger.
-True, but she just popped in and out which is what I didn't like. 0 other comments.
-If it was I missed that. I thought she meant she wanted to sort Pist.
-It's not backtracking then if she was trying to sort Ogre v Pist, I messed that up if so.

Yes, I was trying to sort Pist-True Ogre, not just Pist.

I think you are confbiasing on me. It seems that everything I post lately you are calling scummy.

[Skybird]

I didn't say you were calling everything I posted scummy. I said it

seems

that everything I post

lately

you are finding scummy.

[Skybird]

So give me a quick recap podo. What's your case on me? If you have already posted it, just give me the post number.

[Skybird]

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Criminy, I spend an afternoon outside because it finally made it over 65 degrees around here for the first time this spring and you all choose now to start voting me.

I'm having a hard time finding scum this game. I've been looking at things and re-reading but I'm just not picking up on anything. I'm not sure what I need to do to find scum right now.

These are all really scummy. Especially after reviewing her ISO earlier when doing the wall for Nacho I agree this is the right vote.
VOTE: Skybird

This is what I am talking about Cakez. You took 4 of my posts in a row and called them all scummy. That's why I said it seems like you are calling everything I post lately scummy.

[Skybird]

OK, yeah, didn't realize Skybird's ISO was so short. Seems way too scattershot for my liking. I'm putting her as a scumread. If the wagon moves on Skybird, I'll jump in.

Marquis is right. VOTE: Skybird

I decided not to wait on you because I may be afk this afternoon.

I went through your ISO Podo and this is all I could find about you calling me scummy. The only thing here is you think my ISO is scattershot. What kind of thing is that to base a scum read on anyway? This is a large game with many people. Your subjective statement is pretty damn weak for calling me scum. Then you decide Marquis is right and vote me. Looks like a pretty opportunistic vote to me.

p-edit: I'll get to Marquis next.

[Skybird]

I'd be happier with Skybird than Axel; why don't you like the Cakez wagon?

Unlike SirCakez, Skybird isn't contributing to the game. Cakez at the very least presents a visble thought progression that reads similarly to his play in our Newbie game together.

This is subjective. I have been and always will be a low post count player. Look at all my other games and you will see that I never lead the post count. To say I have not been contributing is BS because I do have posts in the game and I do give reads on people, saying who I think is town and who I think is scum.

But unlike dramonic, Skybird keeps asking questions that don't lead into anything. In other words, unlike dramonic, Skybird is playing like she's trying to look helpful and like she's trying to figure things out, while dramonic just doesn't care. Despite endless questions to people with no followup, Skybird is also very limited on reads. And when she does give reads, it's when she's called out for it, and the reasons are either very general or just amount to "looks bad".

Just because you don't see direction to my questions doesn't mean I don't have one. I have followed up on some of the questions and other questions didn't bring responses that seemed off so yeah, I didn't follow up on them.

Spoiler: last Skybird posts since her pistachion unvote

Announcement: pistachi0n is town-aligned.

UNVOTE: pistachion

Because literally the only thing she did was pop in, unvote and leave. No comment at all on Pist being IC or how shifty that wagon was.

What's there to comment about? Pist is now confirmed town. I voted her because I have True Ogre as town. It turns out through Mod communication that Pist is town. I unvoted. Then RL intervened and I had to go do other stuff.

Dram, I think you are wrong on your Davesaz read. I feel he is town here. He hasn't been very active but he is reading the thread and asking questions.

You've commented on Axel. What about Podo makes you think he's scum?

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

You brought it up as a scum point against me. I'm responding with the truth.

After looking at last night's actions, how has that changed your reads?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

Welcome itlepip!

I'm not sure what you mean with post 2648. Do you mean you tried to read him and can't quite figure him out? Or did you try to engage him? lynch him? What exactly did you try to do?

who are your next best guesses for scum?

tictac

@everyone: I've been coming down with a 39ºC fever, hopefully this'll resolve soon, im not stating V/LA because i've already been inactive enough if it lasts enough to last past prod timer then i suggest i am replaced instead of prodded.

I hope you get to feeling better soon! Having a fever sucks.

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

True Ogre, I wanted to get back to you on this since I didn't get a chance to finish out.

I want to scum read Mirhawk but I am going back and forth on this read. Part of the reason I want to scum read him is because he is scum reading me and I agree that is a really shitty reason to scum read someone. I don't think he's right on Dave being scum. I have Dave as town. Most of the things Mirhawk has pointed out against Dave are him asking meaningless questions and not taking strong stances. But town is going to disagree on who we think are scum so again, this isn't a strong reason for scum reading him. I did like post 879 from Mirhawk. That really reads town to me. I don't agree with calling FS town just because they are a fruit vendor which Mirhawk is basically doing. If I was a mod this would be a great scum role just because most people do read it as a town role. I also didn't like that Mirhawk didn't seem to give any consideration to those of us saying Ranger was town. Anyway, this is basically the argument I am having with myself about whether Mirhawk is town or scum.

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

(Note: "I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI." What does that mean? Did nobody question it?)

For example with going to a townread on Mirhawk, her reasons just read like things scum think sound good. As in, after giving basic reasons to both townread and scumread Mirhawk that anyone could have or has already noticed, she finally settles on a weak townread because "I feel he has made some good points on Cakez".

Nacho can you honestly tell me her play doesn't look like scum "scumhunting" based on... how do I put it, what scum objectively think sounds good/reasonable? And based on who seems more agreeable versus more lynchable? Basically her posts and opinions (when she actually provides them when people actually ask for them) just feel so fake, going with the flow of opinion against each player, and just... asasdffaskjhf. HER PLAY IS JUST SO APPARENTLY SCUM TO ME SINCE DAY 1 AND I FEEL LIKE I'M STARING DOWN SOME SORT OF ROBOT ALIEN HYBRID THAT NOBODY ELSE SEES.

I'm having an extremely hard time buying that her posts this game, including the most recent ones, serve more of a purpose than scum coasting and trying to at least do more than the laziest town, which may or may not be me/dramonic.

ALSO IN CAPS, WHY DO WE KEEP DOING THIS THING WHERE MULTIPLE PEOPLE AGREE SHE'S SCUM, SHE DISAPPEARS OR SOMETHING, AND THEN WE VOTE OTHER PEOPLE FOR ACTIVELY LOOKING BAD AND NOT CARING INSTEAD OF INACTIVELY LOOKING BAD BUT TRYING TO LOOK GOOD.

I just. am so frustrated by all of this. like maybe my all caps-ing looks kind of unnecessary to everyone else but I don't get how we always have this pattern of multiple likely-town players agreeing on a scumread on a player but then shiny things happen and wooo! town wagons instead and blahhhh

On the Wig vendor being AI comment. This seems really clear to me so I don't know why you don't understand it. I have seen both scum fruit vendors and town fruit vendors. Therefore, I don't consider it alignment indicative and won't be considering their role in my evaluation of them being town or scum.

I have been very conflicted on my Mirhawk read as I pointed out in my post. At this point, I don't see enough reason to consider them scum so have them as weak town. Since you, Podo, agree with Marquis I am scum, why is it bad that I agree with Mirhawk's points on Cakez?

[Skybird]

I didn't say you were calling everything I posted scummy. I said it

seems

that everything I post

lately

you are finding scummy.

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Criminy, I spend an afternoon outside because it finally made it over 65 degrees around here for the first time this spring and you all choose now to start voting me.

I'm having a hard time finding scum this game. I've been looking at things and re-reading but I'm just not picking up on anything. I'm not sure what I need to do to find scum right now.

These are all really scummy.

Especially after reviewing her ISO earlier when doing the wall for Nacho I agree this is the right vote.
VOTE: Skybird

This is what I am talking about Cakez. You took 4 of my posts in a row and called them all scummy. That's why I said it seems like you are calling everything I post

lately

scummy.

First there's more backtracking here since you said I wasn't calling everything scummy in the first quote then in the second you said I did.
And how do 4 quotes = everything you posts? That's overblown.

Seriously dude, do you not understand the word "lately"?

I did not say you were calling everything scummy in the first place. I said it SEEMED like you were. I am showing that you took 4 of my most recent posts and called them scummy. See the bolded large statement from you above? See the word bolded in my response?

[Skybird]

Hey Piper, is there something you want explained or discussed since you are happy with your scum read on me?

[Skybird]

Also, Welcome Dwlee! Good luck with Romeo and Juliet. I remember reading that in HS.

[Skybird]

I'm not sure where the vote count is, but I hope I will be given the opportunity to claim before lynch.

@Dave, I'm glad someone gets me in this game. Can we be in-thread masons?

[Skybird]

Mirhawk, one of the reasons you wanted to lynch Ranger was because Ranger thought I was town and defended me. You also said that you would use the Ranger flip to figure me out. (post 2305) Ranger flipped town. And yet, you are still scum reading me. I don't see the logic there. You pushed for a mislynch and now you are pushing for a second one.

[Skybird]

Dwlee, if anything I'm buddying skybird. You happen to be on the right track

Also something something beetlejuice re:pipers

I'm not sure why you are buddying me. I was all for your lynch D1.

True Ogre is one of my top town reads and I may just sheep him for now. I was going to sheep Tammy today but we all know what happened.

[Skybird]

Mirhawk, one of the reasons you wanted to lynch Ranger was because Ranger thought I was town and defended me. You also said that you would use the Ranger flip to figure me out. (post 2305) Ranger flipped town. And yet, you are still scum reading me. I don't see the logic there. You pushed for a mislynch and now you are pushing for a second one.

That's a nice try but I was scumreading you before I even developed a read on Ranger.

The post which you're talking about says that I was looking for Ranger's flip to further validate the position I already had.

OK, but how does Ranger flipping town validate your read on me? I could see your point if I had pushed for Ranger's lynch, but I had a feeling she was town and refused to vote there.

[Skybird]

OK, am I at L-1? I think so.

The reason I mentioned Tammy is because I targeted her with my 1 shot kingmaker role N1. She was my strongest town read and I wanted to make sure that I got to use my PR since so many people thought I was scum. I had no idea she was lovers with Spiffeh. (Though thanks for thinking I'm smart enough to pick up on that Marquis!)

[Skybird]

Cerb, I'm Oscar Jaffee from On the Twentieth Century.

[Skybird]

I'm down with a cakez lynch. (And yeah, here come all the post about me trying to save my neck.)

[Skybird]

@Rob, can you confirm that I am a 1-shot kingmaker and that I targeted Tammy last night?

I'm not sure if he can, but it's worth a try.

[Skybird]

True Cerb. Marquis is just so tunneled on me that I expect her to bring that up as another point against me.

[Skybird]

Cerb, I'm doing my best to prevent a mislynch. I didn't think Rob would confirm it, but it didn't hurt anything to try.

[Skybird]

I was trying to lay low on D1 because of my role. I wanted to make sure I got a chance to use it. I was town-hunting looking to make sure I targeted town with my king-maker shot. So Mirhawk you are correct that I really didn't have any scum reads D1. I really wasn't looking for them. But I couldn't say that because you guys would have flash-lynched me. I also didn't want to say anything that would make scum think I had a super PR and was worth a NK.

[Skybird]

Does anyone know anything about this flavour?

I just read a plot summary. I'm not understanding how the flavor could correspond to "giving someone power." Oscar Jaffee is a failed writer for live theater. He comes up with a great idea for a play, then plots to trick a great actress into being the lead, and ultimately they fall in love when she sees through the ruse.

It's possible I'm missing some of that plot, but I failed to see any correlation between the flavor and the role. That doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible, I'm just saying that as far as I can tell, the flavor doesn't add up to the role. The lovers and hated made a lot of flavorful sense, so I think it'd be weird if this one didn't make any.

You missed a few things in the plot summary. Oscar and the actress (can't remember the character name) worked together before when he talked her into taking a lead role in his production. He made her a star. Then they went their separate ways and Oscar's career nose dived while the actress continued to be great. After his last flop in Chicago, he boards a train (The Twentieth Century) to go back to New York. The actress is either already on board or gets on board shortly after he does. The rest of the play is trying to get her to star in his next production, except that he doesn't have a script for it yet.

[Skybird]

Dwlee, I have TPP as town. I think you are barking up the wrong tree there.

[Skybird]

My biggest issue with getting lynched today is the fact that once again Marquis is tunneling the heck out of me and will end up mislynching me again.

[Skybird]

Dwlee, I have TPP as town. I think you are barking up the wrong tree there.

Weren't you just null reading us?
And weren't you concerned that we scum slipped and didn't I totally ignore that before?

I quoted the post below where you answered me. Why would you say that you ignored it?

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

Mirhawk's point was that he expected the scum not to look outside the major wagons and not to shake up the gamestate; I said what I said because I don't think that two town counter wagons would radically change how scum behaved. If they were the type of players to try to get something started outside of the two major wagons, then they probably would. If they weren't, than they wouldn't.
Does this make sense or are we still misunderstanding each other?

If I had to consolidate, it'd be on VOTE: Axel for his posts reeking of effort concealing motivation.

Not the biggest fan of my wagonmates but I'm not too fond of the other wagons.

Still mostly V/LA; will get access again later tonight.

I'd be happier with Skybird than Axel; why don't you like the Cakez wagon?

[Skybird]

My biggest issue with getting lynched today is the fact that once again Marquis is tunneling the heck out of me and will end up mislynching me again.

Lynches don't happen because one person says so.

He's the one pushing me the most, for crappy reasons. And he has done it before. It wouldn't be so bad if town wasn't already down 4 people. I hate to see us down by potentially another 3 townies at the start of tomorrow.

[Skybird]

Piper, don't know why you are so interested in my reads. You are scum reading me pretty hard. How much of that is because of Marquis?

At any rate these are the ones that stick out to me the most:
Davesaz is town in this game. So is Dram.

I had Amihan/Marquis as town earlier, but I'm doubting that now. After I flip town, Marquis should be lynched.

Cakez is pretty scummy too, which is why I am voting him. I'd vote Marquis but I doubt there's any getting Marquis lynched today.

p-edit: Dwlee, are you sure you aren't scum? I'd expect scum to be this sure about a read. Town, not so much.

[Skybird]

Not really sure what to make of that claim. I was expecting something at least semi-provable given the request to claim prior to lynch.

Why did you care whether or not you would get to claim given you've already used your shot and where you used it provides no info Skybird?

I was hoping (against odds) that it would help. I'm really trying to figure out how to not be mislynched.

[Skybird]

What do you think about Ogre?

Ogre is town.

[Skybird]

I'm not lying about being a one shot king maker. That is my role.

I think everyone needs to look at NY177 and see how Marquis convinced herself that I was scum and even said in that game she wouldn't be able to see me any other way. She is in that same mind-frame here, totally convinced she is right (when she is totally wrong). It is seriously pissing me off!

p-edit: I can't say I have one shot left because I did use it. My bad luck that Tammy died. Believe me, I would love to have the one shot back.

[Skybird]

So am I dead now?

[Skybird]

Thanks Cerb, that's what I meant. Oh well, good luck everyone!