Open 678 - White Flag GAME OVER!

[hapahauli]

Hello world. 71 pages of fun to read today. I'd appreciate some time to catch up before a hammer is dropped.

[hapahauli]

Wait, we're lynching the guy who replaced Firebringer? That seems like a terrible idea.

The guy is angry, all over the place, emotional, "claiming mafia", self-voting, raging... in what world is a player like that flipping mafia?

[hapahauli]

Geezus fucking christ don't hammer him.

[hapahauli]

Her.

Whatever.

[hapahauli]

On my initial skim, ThinkBig looked really bad.

I'm on my phone, so I can't be too detailed right now. But it's like he's playing a different game from us. He's just lurking with his vote on Transcend and not doing much of anything else. He thinks Titus is town but is remarkably unconcerned with saving him. He's more interested in saying Titus is town.

It has a chance of lyinching scum and forces scum to play the game. Right now, site meta seems to be for scum to lurk and let town rip its own head off day 1.

^Which is exactly what it is doing right now.

Funny how that works.

VOTE: ThinkBig

[hapahauli]

We have 36 hours to swing another lynch. This isn't a problem at all.

Join me Transcend. You know perfectly well that ThinkBig's push on you is complete horseshit.

[hapahauli]

Hopefully we can get more people in thread so that's not the case. And if ThinkBig ends this day early, you should lynch him with fire, because he's claiming mafia.

And yes, I am being manipulative. But the ends justify the means.

[hapahauli]

Tbh Transcend tonally you just feel off today and regardless of this flip I want to lynch you tomorrow.

hap the fact that you feel this strongly about the Titus wagon right after replacing in is shady af you know that right?

Replacing in gives me certain advantages, like being able to look at a game with less emotion and more objectivity.

I feel *extremely* strongly that Firebringer's play cannot come from scum. I saw him play almost identically in another game I replace in, in which he went full-emo self-hammered himself and flipped town. Hell, Firebringer quit the game to go host it.

Right now, I need to establish this with the thread, because we have limited time, and this wagon is sketchy as fuck.

[hapahauli]

whatever

day's stagnating

ith titus the vt

final reads?

Also, Transcend is definetely not mafia here. He's pushing 280 posts on Day 1, is just posting whatever comes to his mind first, and generally doesn't care how he comes across. Mafia are rarely blatant about lynch motivations like this:

whatever

day's stagnating

ith titus the vt

final reads?

wait was he l-1 lmfao

This is 100% pure columbian townie mentality.

[hapahauli]

Aris is probably town 'cause meta.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8654605

Nachomamma has a pretty good meta summary of him. I'll just quote it, because I can't say it much better.

[hapahauli]

that's not a good reason to townread me, as i hyperpost as both alignments and play better as scum jsyk.

It's not just the posting. It's the mentality, and the general "posting the first thing that comes to your mind without caring about the consequences."

On my computer, will elaborate on ThinkBig.

[hapahauli]

Look at ThinkBig's filter over the last 72 hours. His treatment of the Titus wagon is super suspect.

It is well established that ThinkBig thinks Titus is town, and has thought so from very early on in the game.

Though Titus is probably town. Scum wouldn't need to ask if scum have day chat.

(I'll note that this is the only reason that TB has provided for Titus being town, and I consider this disproportionately weak reasoning given the strength of his read.)

Right before the Titus wagon starts (Titus has 2 votes on him at the time of the below), he posts this:

This day ends in the lynch of one of three people, end of story. Titus, Transcend, or mastina.

pedit all good, sorry to yell

I can support this, though transcend is still my top scum read and Titus is still a town read. I could lynch within Transcend/Mastina/Pine

Note that despite Titus being one of his top town-reads, he doesn't seem very concerned about preventing the wagon on him. He's more interested in establishing that Titus is a town read than actually objecting to Titus getting run up. Note the lack of anything like "I am not lynching Titus", or "We are not lynching Titus".

Titus then has a bunch of votes swing on her, and ThinkBig disappears!

He's clearly active enough to give the host well wishes:

I'm going to be gone for awhile. I've been kicked out of the house by my dad.

Firebringer will mod the game in my absence. Please thank him.

Sorry to hear. Been there before so I know how it feels. Let me know if you need anything.

While Titus is getting run up, he posts this. He's clearly around to object to the Titus wagon if he needs to, but is never to be found.

He's also clearly active and present enough to respond within 30 minutes to my vote on him!

hap that's a decent vote but at the same time if thinkbig is a counterwagon to titus, he will have no choice but to hammer her.

I'm not hammering a town read of mine.

also you feel a bit manipulative.

I agree with this.

But where are his objections to the Titus lynch? He's just sitting back and watching one of his top town reads get lynched, even though he's active enough to stop it.

That ain't town brah.

[hapahauli]

There's also a collection of other things in his filter that are suspect. For example, he complains a lot about things going on in the thread. Mafia love doing this, since they can say true things without contributing to town.

For example:

VOTE: mastina

Why the naked vote on Mastina? Don't like this vote at all.

Doesn't like the naked vote. Complains about it, despite never really calling Mastina mafia (and calling her town earlier in his filter). What does this accomplish? He just points something out and doesn't go anywhere with it. So what if he "doesn't like it", is Mastina mafia for that?

It also reads as super scummy and hypocritical when you consider that he did the exact same thing earlier in his filter.

VOTE: LUV

And that vote on LUV was not an RVS vote.

[hapahauli]

Love to Gin

Would you like to stop prod dodging and give us some substance?

[hapahauli]

Correction on #1812:

Nancy posted that empty vote, not Mestina. However the general two points still stand:1) ThinkBig is being critical of the vote without taking it anywhere or calling nancy mafia, and 2) ThinkBig being extremely hypocritical with his own justificationless vote on LUV.

[hapahauli]

This is 100% pure columbian townie mentality.

He says that as either alignment.

Ok, I'll take a look at some of his scumgames.

Let's talk about ThinkBig though. That would be greeeeeeeat.

Make Day 1 on Mafiascum great again.

[hapahauli]

@ Pine

1) Read my cases.
2) Who do you want to lynch?

[hapahauli]

Why so uncooperative?

Also, do you consider TB's filter town, or non-alignment indicative?

[hapahauli]

Though Titus is probably town. Scum wouldn't need to ask if scum have day chat.

VOTE: mastina

Why the naked vote on Mastina? Don't like this vote at all.

VOTE: LUV

Eh. Mastina seems pretty tilted and ragey throughout her filter. That doesn't make me feel great about her chances of flipping mafia. Why are we flashwagoning her?

[hapahauli]

I don't know what's with these quotes sometimes. Ignore the quotes.

[hapahauli]

Let's hear from Nancy first. Can't conclude it won't happen without hearing from more people.

Also if TB doesn't work out, I'd much rather kill someone in the lurkerish-unreadable category (BTD, momo, toejam) than someone ranging and tilted in the thread (Mastina).

[hapahauli]

Let's hear from Nancy first. Can't conclude it won't happen without hearing from more people.

Also if TB doesn't work out, I'd much rather kill someone in the lurkerish-unreadable category (BTD, momo, toejam) than someone ranging and tilted in the thread (Mastina).

This is kinda a scumpost. Level of activity should not factor in your reads, much less be the basis for them. Could also be rank newbie tho

Firstly, I'm not a newb. I have a lot of experience playing this game as town. When I replace into games and call someone mafia, I'm usually correct.

Secondly, if you're not going to give a shit about the game that's fine. But at least sheep the players who do care, because they are a lot more likely to be correct.

[hapahauli]

Hey guy, do me a favor and cut the attitude. You don't know me. I don't know you. I do, however, see your post count. It isn't unreasonable to wonder at your level of experience.

Also, past performance is a poor predictor of the future. It's a pretty common newbie and semi-newbie error to assume that because they were right in the past that they're right now. Let the facts speak for themselves.

Finally, kindly cram it. I have the experience and skill to get away with early game quirkiness. When shit gets real, I'll be on task.

I'll give you all the attitude I damn well please when you ignore my cases and take one of my posts horribly out of context to call me mafia.

It's pretty common for people to think they're good at things despite having no track record of success. The human mind can be quite delusional.

[hapahauli]

Hi Nancy. Nice to meet you - can we chat?

[hapahauli]

I'm not going to unvote right now, sorry.

What do you want to chat about hap?

For starters, why don't you want to unvote?

Also, you seem in a bad mood. Is there anything wrong?

[hapahauli]

Honestly, I get the impression that a majority of the town is just tilted and screaming at each other rather than focusing on finding mafia. After dealing with Pine for 5 minutes, I think I understand how that happened.

[hapahauli]

Alright. I'll put my big boy pants on and stop being a condescending asshole.

I do care about lynching successfully today, and I hope you all feel the same.

[hapahauli]

I'm sorry Pine. Let's be friends.

[hapahauli]

I'm sorry Pine. Let's be friends.

Pass. Getting a scum vibe from you. Discrediting me didn't work because you didn't do your homework on who you were dealing with, so I don't care to be flattered.

Another game, maybe.

Friendship doesn't mean you need to think I'm conf-town. But I would like it if you read my cases before drawing conclusions about me. My priority is to lynch ThinkBig, not fight with you.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p8711422 (1808)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p8962951 (1812)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p8962979 (1820) --- A correction to 1812.

This will take all of 5 minutes. I don't think that's a lot to ask, even if you're not tryharding.

[hapahauli]

I'm not going to unvote right now, sorry.

What do you want to chat about hap?

For starters, why don't you want to unvote?

Also, you seem in a bad mood. Is there anything wrong?

Becuase if I unvote the wagon doesn't go through.

I'm not in a bad mood, I just think you might be scum. My care level about this game is pretty low right now though, ngl.

Okay. So what's the #1 reason you think Titus is mafia?

Also, what do you think about ThinkBig?

[hapahauli]

Wait a sec. Titus replaced Fire, and her wagon is Tojam, Mastina, nancy-kohai, and lurkers? Fuck no that slot is Town. Lynch her and we start systematically lynching from that wagon

PEdit: Still pass. I do my own work and I do it at my own pace. Having a fit about your case isn't making me want to read it. It just heightens my suspicions
PEdit2: INORITE? I did my own research after petulantly asking you. Did not realize Titus replaced obvTown Fire, I think I was conflating another game with Titus, maybe NY199. We've played together a bunch lately.

If you read my posts, I could have saved you all that time and research.

Who do you want to lynch off that Titus wagon?

[hapahauli]

Well this discussion died.

[hapahauli]

Hi, I'm here.
-Ali

Do you have any other scumreads other than ThinkBig?

What do you make of Pine?

[hapahauli]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p8711422 (1808)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p8962951 (1812)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p8962979 (1820) --- A correction to 1812.

Falco, read this and tell me what you think.

[hapahauli]

I think Pine is trying to tilt me as opposed to thinking I am mafia. That is non-alignment indicative.

[hapahauli]

Oops. Just pull up post 1808 in this thread. Mixed my links a bit.

[hapahauli]

Why do you think Titus is mafia?

[hapahauli]

What is wrong with that post? What you bolded is not what he thinks, but what he says the town thinks.

[hapahauli]

Is that the only reason you have to scumreas Titus? I've read your filter and havent seen any explanation for why you want to lynch him. Or toejam. Or anyone really.

Speaking of Toejam, your vote is on him, but you didnt mention him in your lunch possibilities. Why?

[hapahauli]

Falco plz

[hapahauli]

I've been looking through some of his past games, and he's definely lynchbaity. If he keeps talking, I think I can sort him out.

[hapahauli]

He has two town games from what I have seen. No scumgames, so it's not possible to do anything meta conclusive. He does have longer posts in his town games that explain his reads, whereas thats pretty absent in this game.

[hapahauli]

Nah I think he's scum because he's posturing between the Titus and TB wagons and that's sorta what I expect scum to do here.
-Ali

But yeah, this too. It seems like he's very indifferent to who he wants to lynch.

[hapahauli]

Falco has two games:

Open 666 Pick Your Poison
- Town
- Replaces in, makes 12 posts, replaces out.
- Only alive for 6 RL days.

Newbie 1773
- Doctor
- Mislynched Day 1, 43 posts.

No mafia games, so I can't really do a complete comparison of his game play here.

------------------------------------

Open 666 isn't very useful.

He's just really not in the thread that much, and replaces out after 12 posts. His play feels similar-ish, where he gives reads without rationale. When put under suspicion, he provides this:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p8696433

...which is a longer post (by his standards this game), and describes his reads and thought process in more detail.

Newbie 1773 is much more relevant, and is the more recent game.

He looks very different in this game compared to his gameplay here. He persues and questions his scumreads, and also comes up with these read-dump type posts:

{gigabyteTroubadour}
{Lighthaze, Accountant}
{Loopdan, Woodboys, AceQueen}
{TesXX, AjTheEpic}

Reasonings:
gigabyte: Not much to say here.
Lighthaze: I did say earlier that Light was being pretty scummy but I realized that it was pretty impulsive I said this in 122 I think(?) - either way I did doublepost and say that the wagon was pretty bad. Dummy not scummy IMHO
Accountant: Slight TR.
Loopdan: I can see the thought process behind the Light wagon but I don't think it's right. I'd like to hear more from him, but at the very least he has been poking around. I could see him in the tier below this, though.
AceQueen: I initially harped on her quite a bit for not being completely open to sharing her opinion, but then I realized that it was more or less just uncertainty rather than wanting to conceal one's opinion.
Woodboys: Yeah I think what he's said has made a lot of sense considering his background, but I want to know his current opinion on Tes.
Aj: Educating and playing aren't mutually exclusive things, but you're treating it as if they were. I don't see why you have to dedicate so much time to coaching and directing people when you could just be formulating your own opinions. I haven't seen much out of you, and, call it what you want, I don't see much if any justification for your vote on me.
Tes: He got to L-1 and then...just went back into the shadows. You'd think that a newb townie would step up to the plate whenever they're one vote from getting hammered, but as far as I can see, that's not happening with Tes.
mo
I did this super quickly; if I had all the time in the world I'd certainly make this more detailed. I'm going to try and elaborate more on the Aj and Tes, possibly Loopdan issues tomorrow, and I'd be happy to elaborate on anything vague.

... he obviously hasn't done anything like this in this game.

[hapahauli]

OH shit I'm sorry. Didn't realize. I'd be happy to delete that if the mod will let me.

[hapahauli]

What does me being a "newbie" have to do with me being scum or town?

[hapahauli]

Whatever.
Lynch ThinkBig.
Good night.

[hapahauli]

There's literally no way a lynch this apathetic hits mafia. I will last, last minute hammer Titus because no lynch sucks that much, but he'll flip VT and that's dumb.

I've said what I need to say on ThinkBig. Town's too inactive to swing there apparently.
Also down for tojam wagon, because atleast he has a *chance* of flipping mafia, and is a semi-realistic alternative to flipping the obv-town.

[hapahauli]

VOTE: tojam2

There's some stuff in the filter that makes me think there's a chance to flip mafia here. Not as great as ThinkBig, but better than Titus for sure.

Tojam's just been tunneled on Titus all game and isn't doing much else.

VOTE: TitusNot after last game. She's hella hard to read.

Voted when titus replaced in for being hard to read, and never took the vote off. It's not clear what the reasons for the scumread are beyond this post:

and just talk. K?

I HAVE BEEN TALKING.
THE FULL FUCKING GAME.
EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
UNAMBIGUOUS. CLEAR. ALL OUT THERE.
NOT HIDING.
STANCES AS CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY.
I HAVE BEEN MESSING AROUND SOME.
AND PUSHING>
BUT ALWAYS TALKING>

NEVER LACKING IT.
NEVER NO TALKING.

AND PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY LISTENING.
BECAUSE THEY SAW THE SAME SHIT I DID.
AND NOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONE.

AND WE ARE MOCVING FARTHER AND FATERW AY FROM A SCUM <YNCH.
WHEN WHE WERE SO FUCKING CLOSE.
SO. FUCKING. CLOSE.
AND SHOULD HAVE DONE IT FIFTY PAGES AGO.
AND SHOULD BEE ABLE TO HAVE A PERFET FUCKING TOWN WIN.
YET WE ARE GOING IN THE ENTIRELY WRONG DIRECTION BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ARE FUCKING LEAVING THE GAME FROM FRUSTRATION.

You're yelling and I don't like LUV left but Grey left because asshole who gamethrows. Not sorry about that one.

I have dealt with town you before, and had to work around you and Farside. This type of behavior is not a dialogue. I still have not a semblence of an idea or coherent thought in these pages. Stop yelling.

So what if she's yelling you've got to defend it or you'll further convince me that you're scum.

Let's run it up. Between Pine and Siblings, we'll have L-1. Maybe someone on the Titus wagon will be able to flip.

[hapahauli]

Just in general, Tojam's justified lynching Titus on the basis of being hard to read more than on th basis of being mafia.

[hapahauli]

Aris, why do you think Titus is mafia? I've seen no good case on her so far, and all the emotional tilt of the Firebringer slot seems super townie.

[hapahauli]

But where is the game solving?where is the fight to sort people??

About who? Titus? I read alot of that as tilt and demotivation. I also think Firebringer's play is superunlikley to come from mafia. Who self-votes, whines, and tilts so hard they replace out to host the game as mafia?

Regarding "lack of fight and gamesolving" I can say the same for half the players in this game, as well as most of the Titus wagon. And all of them can't be mafia.

What do you make of ThinkBig and Tojam?

Posted a few things on ThinkBig in 1808, 1812