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[Mewtaph]

Hi all!
Reading thread now.

[Mewtaph]

@DVa:

BEF: Different but could be town?
DrDoLittle: Lean town, read unlikely to change
PenguinPower: Lean town
Almost50: Lean scum
Sephiroth: Lean scum
tchill13: Solidly town

[Mewtaph]

I'd prefer to finish reading the thread first, thank you.

[Mewtaph]

PenguinPower: Lean town
Almost50: Lean scum
Sephiroth: Lean scum

like you to expand on these 3 when you can

I don't get why out of all things your actively pushing questions to generate content on my first impression reads?

[Mewtaph]

Well, I already know you didn't like my predecessor so it feels very much like you're trying to trap my options.

If you were truly interested to find out if I was town or not I feel like you wouldn't restrict me in such a manner where you are essentially guiding my attention to where you want to go rather than what I necessarily think is most productive for me to be working on right now.

[Mewtaph]

that sounds a bit convoluted actually

VOTE: kokichi oma

I think you are town but on the wrong path.

[Mewtaph]

OkaPoka what's your read on Almost50?

[Mewtaph]

I don't, but why did you put Seph as your top tr early?

[Mewtaph]

:/ So you don't interact with players that don't know you? Well that's helpful.

[Mewtaph]

We have an entire week to go?
Honestly I’ve noticed a consistent trend of people being really panicky about deadlines these days and it is really obnoxious

Ahhhhh. you're right.
I just don't know where we go from here. I'm ok with being on the Kokichi wagon, but its not a solid read. What wagon do you suggest?

BEF, why did/does this make sense to you in particular? Do you believe that arbitrarily pushing Kokichi holds more value than pressuring another lynch? If so, why? If no, do you think Kokichi can be town?

[Mewtaph]

I don't really understand the reasoning for DDL's first wagon and don't see how anything has changed here?

[Mewtaph]

Found the answer to DVa's question to DDL.

I think this is tchill's typical I hate day 1 posts. But I agree the vote on you is strange.

Why are you attempting to meta read if you don't have meta with the person?

[Mewtaph]

Hey, DVa do you still think tchill13 is scum? Why exactly?

[Mewtaph]

Works for me.

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Your previous post, haha.

[Mewtaph]

I'm not really sure if people are just sring my predecessor or the fact that I'm willing to sit on my BEF vote, they simply can't read me properly or simply can't be bothered interact with me directly.

I think BEF, DDL are town and as a result am not sure where the best place to put my vote is. I rethought my read on tchill13 and decided against doing so. So that leaves me little options unless I want to vanity wagon on someone or unvote (both I feel are as equally pointless as one another in this context). I've seen little interest from other players on the players I am interested in pushing - namely Seph, who has disappeared so not a great lynch and A50 as an initial vibe read but their posts I've seen while I've been around in this slot have made me think I'm just misreading style/tone.

[Mewtaph]

Hm... yeah. Gamma, do you think town!A50 dismisses BEF in this way?

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VOTE: Nako

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: Nako

Why Nako? Why have you had no comment on the PP situation?

I said PP was lean town before: if I felt that changed I would have voted him, but I didn't.

[Mewtaph]

If Joe does I will. I hate it when we waste half the day doing nothing and then half to rush things on the otehr half though and then we wait for the last 2 hours to get a claim and then it's an un CC'd TPR claim and we rush through another lynch which is almost always a mislynch.

On the other hand, I have witnessed a LOT of games where we ended up lynching scum by being active and aggressive way before the dead line. You know deadlines were meant to be as "if necessary" and not "must use" kind of thing.

This is bad posting because the game state is quite clearly moving along and a claim from PP didn't seem in the equation at all, it seemed much more like a wagon with quick momentum and hit L-2 and L-1 along the way.

[Mewtaph]

@Anyone: Why does tchill pop his head out as soon as the PP wagon seems to have lost most of its momentum and people are looking for other targets? What incentive does scum!tchill have to make 1002?

[Mewtaph]

Pre-flip associations defo aren't something I can fight against at all, let's pop bottles Nako!

[Mewtaph]

TBH I townread tchill's snark and it felt especially genuine in earlier posts. Now it's kinda eh but I still don't see how people are thinking it's as good as a lynch as they are making it out to be.

[Mewtaph]

but I can't decide if your third is BEF, Dolittle or DVa.

Ouch hard miss buddy

[Mewtaph]

to justify a pp vote even though he is making it clear he isn't paying much attention

Mmk noted.

[Mewtaph]

Best lynch today imo is probably Seph, but I still can watch how the day plays out before making a decision.

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You mean the post where he said he read 5 pages out of 30? That's kinda obvious snark because he made a post near that saying how they liked what you were doing in thread Oka, implying they read the thread. It's snark because he hates D1 and doesn't really want to read 40 pages

[Mewtaph]

Best lynch today imo is probably Seph, but I still can watch how the day plays out before making a decision.

Reasons??

And let's say he did flip scum.. so? What associatives do we have to determine his partners?

I just want the highest chance of flipping scum D1, I couldn't give a hoot about associatives or meeting some quota of lynching somebody everyone else scumreads but yes that's why I said Seph is mayyybe not the best idea to push rn because there's just not enough content there to analyse after flip

[Mewtaph]

Oka I just don't think he cares tbh, and even if he is scum I still don't think he's a good lynch today. Like if he hates D1 so much then we can test that on later days, like it just seems all very easy D1 MLy and scum is going to be fine with that if they can get away with it on consensus

[Mewtaph]

I just want the highest chance of flipping scum D1, I couldn't give a hoot about associatives or meeting some quota of lynching somebody everyone else scumreads but yes that's why I said Seph is mayyybe not the best idea to push rn because there's just not enough content there to analyse after flip

If there's not enough content to analyze after flip, how the hell is there enough content to consider me the best chance at hitting scum today? I was here for like 15 pages then missed 25 on v/la.

I think one scum approaches the game in a way similar to how you do, it's just a gut read early on. Like the whole making a reads list for towncred - like yes I know you had V/LA so it's unfair but it's kinda scummy to drop a reads list then pop up only occasionally afterwards, you can change my mind on that though. I have no idea how you play as either alignment. And also you weren't really that present when you were in thread in the early pages which is part of my problem with sorting you atm

[Mewtaph]

Ok Oka, making case now (and its not on Seph ftr)

[Mewtaph]

Ok actually I'd prefer just waiting on that first because I want to see how the thread reacts so I can see if thoughts are matching up or if they aren't, and also I need a break lol

[Mewtaph]

^ @Oka if that wasn't clear

[Mewtaph]

You mean the Tchill wagon?

DVa what are your thoughts exactly? Like you come into the thread to post this?

[Mewtaph]

LMAO how do you go from conveniently jumping away from Seph's questions repeatedly into unanswerable realms "or maybe you ARE scum", "we'll talk about it post game", to questioning the reason for their vote, then intent to hammer the slot.

[Mewtaph]

A50 are you actually british?

???

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Nako why are you answering for A50? Last time I checked you don't even have games with him?? You've played like two games onsite

[Mewtaph]

@Seph, Unvote plz, I hard tr you

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Actually it's fine.

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Mhm.

[Mewtaph]

The fact that you need to paint this as black and white, like we can only lynch someone immediately or we can wait til the end of deadline and get a lolhammer is absurd.

We already used up NINE days with not a single new piece of info. We have less than 5 days left. "We don't need to use the whole day, but we can wait for the next 5 days for something unspecific to happen" is what you're implying. THAT is absurd.

And who says it's anti-Town to push the stalling wagon for a claim to resolve it? What good is it for us to have a wagon stalled at L-1/L-2 and go barking at each other "He's scum" "No he's not" for days?

What INFORMATION did you get from any of this? Let's assume PP gets lynch or flipped overnight. He is either Town or Scum. Now tell me who is likely Scum if PP flips Scum, and who is likely Scum if PP flips Town. Tell me who do you think may be scum with whom? Who are you sure are not scum with each other?

PP isn't getting lynched today.

[Mewtaph]

Ok actually I'd prefer just waiting on that first because I want to see how the thread reacts so I can see if thoughts are matching up or if they aren't, and also I need a break lol

Um no, gtfo. Read above and come back to me saying that there's only a "chance"

[Mewtaph]

Nako why are you answering for A50? Last time I checked you don't even have games with him?? You've played like two games onsite

I am answering why I did not consider A50 was rolefishing.

Your read on him implicitly in

Probably town but hard to sort:
Almost50, Joey (If they are seriously mason, locktown with kokichi)

Why are they probably town? Why are they hard to sort? If they are hard to sort, then clearly your read shows that it was easy for you to sort the slot, so it isn't really true is it?

And it 100% was rolefishing and you are scummy for trying to say otherwise.

[Mewtaph]

A50 it's funny how you aren't taking in new info when I'm dumping it straight onto your face.

[Mewtaph]

A50, how hard are you trying to distort associations with your scum partners? Because it doesn't work when your intent is this obvious.

[Mewtaph]

If you answer the above post in (expired on 2018-11-07 14:54:47) you may or may not receive town cred. You should be thankful I'm giving you overtime

[Mewtaph]

Good one.

[Mewtaph]

Don't try to buddy me here.

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Yeah no.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: BEF

[Mewtaph]

I read like the five posts that tchill13 posted, and I'm ready to call high scum equity in {DVa, Nako, A50}. Kk thx

[Mewtaph]

Also didn't read like the last few pages but I read like 50 before it so

[Mewtaph]

I read like the five posts that tchill13 posted, and I'm ready to call high scum equity in {DVa, Nako, A50}. Kk thx

Thoughts on Oka tho

Too loud imo

[Mewtaph]

mmm yeah but ISO Nako/DVa/A50 looks pretty bad, DVa might be one sided buddy on Nako tho so those posts are pretty bad

[Mewtaph]

omg did we hammer and this is twilight

lol yay

[Mewtaph]

I think A50 pretty much always flips scum, so thats a good place to start

[Mewtaph]

Or maybe there isn't much resistance on DVa/Nako but I don't really feel like thats going to be the case

[Mewtaph]

One word: Timezones.

[Mewtaph]

Also A50 discrediting tchill's reads when it's going to be revealed he is likely going to be town anyway, lol

[Mewtaph]

Town =/= good reads. Keep up the good work though.

P.S. Just imagibe how stupid you'd look when I flip green TONIGHT.

lol what?

[Mewtaph]

Yeah this is all very WIFOMy, bye

[Mewtaph]

Lynch A50 with me Joey_.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: Almost50

[Mewtaph]

Nako, who is your biggest scum read and why?

[Mewtaph]

@Nako: Here's my take on whether PP is town or scum.

Spoiler: Penguin GIF.

VOTE: penguin

I think a lot of their posts make more enemies than friends, and scum wants to play the long game to survive as many MLs as possible to win the game. Actions include singling out Kokichi as a "baseline" for their scum reads, aggressing other players town reads on Kokichi, the gifs, etc. I don't think anything feels fake about the slot; his posts show enough town sorting to give me a town lean. His thought process feels more likely to be genuine than one of "How do I fit in here?", "How can I get town cred here?". This is a similar read to the one I had on tchill13 and BEF so I am inclined to think my read here to be correct.

The alternative is that he is "shit posting" to avoid creating content and making strong stances - but this doesn't feel right either, because he has appeared to try to sort some players and has made some open stances on the playerlist.

[Mewtaph]

BrightEyedFish died. He was a

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

VOTE COUNT 2.0

Not Voting (11)

- Everyone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-11-24 22:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

That's the strangest NK I have ever seen in a while!!!!

This means all my reads are shit!!!

I know, BEF was my biggest scumread and I was going to push him. This was probably what happened in scumchat:
Scum A(the active one): I think BEF is not playing like his VT play, I have a meta read on them and Im gonna push them using meta.

Scum B and Scum C(inactives): OK

LOL. There has been a lot of meta talk this game so maybe.

[Mewtaph]

WOw rude

[Mewtaph]

@Nako: Here's my take on whether PP is town or scum.

Spoiler: Penguin GIF.

VOTE: penguin

I think a lot of their posts make more enemies than friends, and scum wants to play the long game to survive as many MLs as possible to win the game. Actions include singling out Kokichi as a "baseline" for their scum reads, aggressing other players town reads on Kokichi, the gifs, etc. I don't think anything feels fake about the slot; his posts show enough town sorting to give me a town lean. His thought process feels more likely to be genuine than one of "How do I fit in here?", "How can I get town cred here?". This is a similar read to the one I had on tchill13 and BEF so I am inclined to think my read here to be correct.

The alternative is that he is "shit posting" to avoid creating content and making strong stances - but this doesn't feel right either, because he has appeared to try to sort some players and has made some open stances on the playerlist.

Dude, this feels a lot like the townread posts I make as a scum. If you were me, I would vote me.

I wouldn't vote me.

[Mewtaph]

Hey, that's mean. I was going to vote with you on DVa but I don't know if you'll just leave me standing on the wagon and then run me over while I'm the only one in it.

[Mewtaph]

Hey, that's mean. I was going to vote with you on DVa but I don't know if you'll just leave me standing on the wagon and then run me over while I'm the only one in it.

Why do you think I would/could/should vote you?

Mostly flashwagons on D1 and then a "who's next" mentality.

[Mewtaph]

That's not directed towards you btw, just a general statement.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: DVa

[Mewtaph]

Yeah, probably going to lose the game at this point.

[Mewtaph]

IDK, he's kind of right but the PoE doesn't feel right either.

[Mewtaph]

And I'm not convinced your read progression on me is natural Gamma.

[Mewtaph]

If we could make the two competing wagons between DVa and Sephiroth that would be really interesting for me.

[Mewtaph]

A50 stock dropping rapidly.

[Mewtaph]

Me too.

[Mewtaph]

Kokichi do you know how to correctly play mason in a mafia game? This is not it.

[Mewtaph]

Lol fake

[Mewtaph]

WIFOM argument isn't good. Your play D1 was bad and fake af with tchill lol. You enter today with a hypoclaim opening in a closed setup with a "sheep" vote on Seph - now you are pointing out hypocrisy in RL events when there is none.

[Mewtaph]

Your play when I replaced in D1 from what I saw was you literally just coasting on town cred and then you suddenly having random pings of paranoia on tchill while also denying any chance of a serious counterwagon because votes on A50 were going to become "vanity wagons". So here's my thought: I don't understand how do you have paranoia pings about someone when literally all they said about you is they like the way you play and they are posting like much less than any other player? How can you feel threatened by being pocketed through that?

[Mewtaph]

Lol literally if me/Seph are right on our scum pools then the only play you can collectively make is to shade our slots so that we aren't listened to or else your team is hot dead in the water. If my scum pool matches Seph then why the fuck would I call an interaction between Seph and A50 again where A50 uses his emotions to his own personal benefit?

My updated scum pool from D1 is:
{Oka, A50, DVa} and Nako as a faraway pick

[Mewtaph]

Seems to me that scum have resigned to being a dick to try and accomplish their win condition. Low ball.

[Mewtaph]

Because it's what I do?

You were supposedly afraid of being pocketed by someone that only said they "liked your play" and "hope you are town" because of that.
In the process, you justify being happy with a tchill lynch, actively deny counterwagons instead of pushing out content, and boom, free D1 lynch.

[Mewtaph]

Yes because he was being lazy about it and not playing the game.

This is AI how?

[Mewtaph]

Especially when his D1 meta was openly discussed or mentioned several times D1?

[Mewtaph]

@Oka, He tried to play the game through a selfhammer - is that not trying to create early content? And I reiterated to you this on D1: This was testable on future days.

[Mewtaph]

My updated scum pool from D1 is:
{Oka, A50, DVa} and Nako as a faraway pick

this flips scum every time

VOTE: Mew

Joey, Mew is now the best lynch, both mechanically and through PoE.

-If he flips scum ascetic, we basically confirm A50 as a real TPR
-If he flips town ascetic, we still confirm A50 as a real PR, although his alignment is less certain
-If he doesn't flip ascetic, we confirm scum roleblocker/or A50 is lying

Also, at this point, Nako refusing to confirm she targeted Mew is weird. If she confirmed she was watching Mew, that would confirm him as ascetic. It would also raise the question of WHY Nako was watching Mew, which frankly seems suspicious to me at this point.

It's also unlikely to me that town has watcher+gunsmith+2 masons so I feel like we already have a surprising amount of power. Mew's predecessor was scummy, Nako has been weird today around claims, I feel like one of your townreads on one of these two slots is probably wrong.

Ego it. Your stances around me have been actively fake D1, you avoid interacting with my slot when I am active posting so you can save your stance on my slot not for D1, but now D2. And blatantly calling me an ascetic. Niiiice.

[Mewtaph]

LOL no they aren't. And Nako actually got pushed out from my previous lynch pool, because she actually seems to be playing the game and trying to reconsider reads while {Oka, DVa, A50} have reads as firm as a rock and say in thread "I know I was wrong D1, so I'm going to sheep masonry! Baaa"

[Mewtaph]

DVa, you try to actively interact with my slot in a way that easily translates into an easy pocket and easy sail through this game. The problem is that as soon as I rejected you before that even began, you actively avoid the thread when I know you are around while I am active posting, you post after I leave. If I read you as town simply because mostly everyone else trs you, that would be stupid. Your slot is less contested than Nako lmao

[Mewtaph]

Kokichi do you know how to correctly play mason in a mafia game? This is not it.

What's the correct way, o mighty one

Stop shit posting to bolster your ability to do jack shit when you do roll mafia so you can win games doing nothing because "I can do that as town too". It's

really

transparent.

[Mewtaph]

nto an easy pocket

Get the fuck out

This gets lynched today

You show interest in interacting with my slot D1 and then you just don't.

[Mewtaph]

26. Note that daytalk is enabled

@Joey_

[Mewtaph]

Kokichi do you know how to correctly play mason in a mafia game? This is not it.

What's the correct way, o mighty one

Stop shit posting to bolster your ability to do jack shit when you do roll mafia so you can win games doing nothing because "I can do that as town too". It's

really

transparent.

Actually I dont do jack shit when I'm scum, which is why people say that's my meta. So you're talking to the wrong person

Ok good job

[Mewtaph]

Because you sred my predecessor then start the basis of your reads with saying I'm scum without ever interacting with me? Nice.

[Mewtaph]

-If he flips scum ascetic, we basically confirm A50 as a real TPR
-If he flips town ascetic, we still confirm A50 as a real PR, although his alignment is less certain
-If he doesn't flip ascetic, we confirm scum roleblocker/or A50 is lying

Your "mechanically clearing" logic is inherently biased. Try again.

[Mewtaph]

Mew's predecessor was scummy, Nako has been weird today around claims, I feel like one of your townreads on one of these two slots is probably wrong.

And me? Not my predecessor that replaced out ages ago? Hello DVa? You make a "case" on me entirely on unconfirmed roles and mechanics and swerve around the idea of actually trying to sort me.

[Mewtaph]

Mew's predecessor was scummy, Nako has been weird today around claims, I feel like one of your townreads on one of these two slots is probably wrong.

And me? Not my predecessor that replaced out ages ago? Hello DVa? You make a "case" on me entirely on unconfirmed roles and mechanics and swerve around the idea of actually trying to sort me.

Suggests that she hasn't been trying to sort my slot at all - scummy because scum is the informed minority.

[Mewtaph]

And what have you done? Made fake posts to get town cred?

[Mewtaph]

Your reaction to A50's play this day feels fake af, your reads list is open wolfing, and you seem more like desperate scum than town rn

You wanna keep casing Oka go for it

but if you were town you'd probably be saying something about Nako that made sense

- Not fake, he repeated what he did in D1 to discredit Seph
- Reads list is not openwolfing because you disagree with it and I found a scummy angle for your posts, if you're town you need to get over it
- I'm not "desperate scum" by literally "powerwolfing" a defense on Seph because I can't be fucked with how scum didn't have to do jack shit on D1. If they want to cruise on a free win (Joey_'s recent readslist, calling tchill as scum, associating a feeling about the tchill wagon unfairly to Seph's slot in particular, Kokichi rolling mason and not VT or obv scum) then they need to be making more content and not cruise on their own self built portfolio of town cred that they've built for themselves. I actively engaged with other people on D1 and D2 today to get a sense of their intent behind their posts while your entire ISO is like risky to the max trying to grab town cred everywhere. Like sorry, but fix your own narrative first lmao.

=> From what I see
- You've made numerous fence-sitting posts that provide analysis but in terms of actual follow-up on those posts with other players? There's almost none. If you think you can shade tchill and those that are wagoning tchill at the exact same time with your meta analysis,
- A50's main theme as a player is claiming a roleblocked gunsmith for no reason
- Oka's main theme is what? He made several lists of values D1 that suggests he's capable of sorting posts into good/neutral/bad for like the first 5 pages max.

For sure I'm going to be pushing this pool if this is how they all react to me suggesting a tight knit scum pool on me by continuing to aggress me/Seph slots.


- Not casing or voting Oka, asking him questions on the tchill wagon because quite frankly that's where scum's reasoning will falter and their scum motives will kick in.
=> Of course some town may have had dumb reasons for wagoning tchill (eg. BEF) but the point is if

there are quite clearly experienced and capable players that are town they have less reason to settle on an easy lynch as tchill 5 days before deadline.

BEF's reasons read as genuine. As for your reasons on me? It really just seems like you're trying to fish out a claim to figure out why your scum PR/kill got roleblocked and are doing everything in your power. And the discussion between you and A50 wasn't even heated, it was fake from both parties (both scum). A50 is spinning his tinfoil on me being Ascetic before roleblocked because he's setting up the idea that any roleblock on him comes from scum and not town. And you trying to fish out if I'm Ascetic or not is literally me full claiming in most closed setup; if I am Ascetic I am literally giving away info to the scum team (ie. you and A50). TBH both of your slots look like complete garbage right now.

[Mewtaph]

You've made numerous fence-sitting posts that provide analysis but in terms of actual follow-up on those posts with other players? There's almost none. If you think you can shade tchill and those that are wagoning tchill at the exact same time with your meta analysis,

continued:
Then I'd expect you to follow up on that and have tried to gauge whether player reasoning for that wagon or for who was metaing him or whatever comes from a genuine place or not. Instead, you've displayed that you were/are content heading into D2 with a lynch on DDL/PP.

[Mewtaph]

- A50's main theme as a player is claiming a roleblocked gunsmith for no reason

And then only one complex read on Seph for the entire game in which he doesn't even show he is capable of thinking beyond that slot while also discrediting it in the process.

[Mewtaph]

It's late, Gamma-chan. Are you good with Gamma-chan?

@Mew, I don't know what to tell you, but I feel like people are either misremembering or simply lying about his meta and I want to understand why. I cannot find a towngame that looks like how he's playing here.

So the question for me then is: are people misrepresenting his meta because they actually don't remember what he looks like on d1, or are people trying to buddy him by giving him a pass despite playing like garbage? Or are people looking at some other game I didn't look at?

Because if people are willfully misrepresenting his meta (i.e. PP or DrD), then that would be scum indicative imo.

But it could be that they simply disagree, or think his meta really is different than it is.

All I know right now is that I am not seeing town games that look like this game for Tchill, so yeah, he's definitely very much on my radar rn

So I'm not sure Tchill is scum 100%, but I feel like the people casually misrepresenting his meta could be

[Mewtaph]

yo mew

how sure are you on the tr of sephiroth?

Maybe I was fairly sure D1, not sure how much now.

[Mewtaph]

A fucking gunsmith claimed a no result on you and you won't deny being ascetic

What other fucking conceivable use is there to your claim if you're ascetic

Like, if you're not even entertaining the notion that A50 MIGHT be town, then sure, WIFOM the entire fucking dayphase away

But town ascetics confirm they're town ascetics 100% of the fucking time here, and town "anything else" confirms they're not town ascetics. no one lets the conversation reach this point of absurdity unless they are hedging because they wanted A50 to really believe he was roleblocked

there is no other conceivable use of an ascetic role other than what is going on RIGHT NOW

you're also saying there's nothing else that A50 has done that is townie, but you are making 0 analysis of the plausibility of his progression over the last two days. He's had multiple significant 1v1s and you think it's all just a show? then give some examples of things that seem fake

as for Oka, sure, keep doing your thing, whatever

you think you can shade tchill and those that are wagoning tchill at the exact same time with your meta analysis

what are you even talking about here?

Ugh whatever I'm not ascetic

[Mewtaph]

Probably Seph.

[Mewtaph]

D1 town pings diminish assuming A50 is town. tchill hammer is not great. "I might be being pocketed" is not a great post when the scum intent from town!Seph's perspective would be to get a wagon on myself over him, just to pocket him.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: Seph

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: Oka

[Mewtaph]

its also nice as scum to bait out information

Especially in a closed setup ^^

[Mewtaph]

The claim was not voluntary.

It was forced.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: DVa

This or A50 can go 10/10 times before Oka.

[Mewtaph]

The claim was not voluntary.

It was forced.

How do you figure? Its more like he slowly softclaimed and then worked his way around to full claiming. I don't see any way in which you could say A50 was forced into claiming. He even acknowledges that it wasn't an optimal play and that he did it because he was annoyed at Dva nagging him. Prompted maybe but forced seems like an oddly inaccurate way of describing how that went down unless I'm just misreading things.

My Ascetic claim.

[Mewtaph]

Mew, why did you wait so long to claim non-ascetic? Any reason you didn't say so almost immediately?

Here.

[Mewtaph]

OK, well, let's see what Mew says since you targeted him, but at this point it might be better if she said whether she targeted Mew before Mew claims

It does if she was blocked. She wants to see if a) her target would claim Ascetic/Hider/Commuter, or b) Someone claims RB/JK and then claim they targeted her.

also outs the entire power structure of the town at the risk that you just confirm someone is ascetic, which isn't even alignment indicative

[Mewtaph]

Seph, let's catch up here before I claimed non-ascetic. DVa and A50 postured in my slot to force this out of me. Now my next post will explain why this process looked scummy to me when I participated in interacting with their slot.

[Mewtaph]

1) Nako declares V/LA
2) DVa shades Nako and says I should claim.
3) DVa states that Nako's hypoclaim as tracker bringing the suggestion of a mass claim, rather than actually enforcing it as "foolish at the risk that you just confirm someone is ascetic, which isn't even alignment indicative".
4) I don't claim.
5) DVa doesn't ask me again specifically for an Ascetic/Not Ascetic claim, skips that process of questioning and makes a case on me.
6) This case is heavily based around the idea that Ascetic is alignment indicative.
7) I claim non-ascetic.
8) DVa approaches me in the intent of making sure that I look as scummy as possible for "withholding my Ascetic claim" which "cannot possibly be town motivated".
9) He explicitly shows that my non-Ascetic claim is not AI but that me withholding that information is AI.
10a) DVa is intending to out the entire power structure of the town.
10b) My non-ascetic claim makes the town PRs clearer to scum at no immediate benefit to town.

[Mewtaph]

Nako suggests a mass claim and brings it into discussion.

DVa states, I think it could be possible to break a 13p closed setup with a mass claim. Let me figure out if this is correct or not - doesn't bring it into discussion.

There is a difference.

[Mewtaph]

It is definitely possible that A50 is not a gunsmith and can just be a scum (likely investigative) PR.

They admit that they played like garbage on D1 (which they did).

Then A50 is accepting/advocating a case on me entirely based on "I'm withholding Ascetic or not".

If A50 is town and he makes the opening he does on D2, it is inconsistent for him to jump to the conclusion of me being Ascetic over him being roleblocked.

If they are scum, they gain more clarity on where their night actions should be going.

If they are town, they gain more clarity on what? Whether it is plausible to gamesolve the setup through a D2 massclaim. I find that hard to believe.

[Mewtaph]

Conveniently, both players have seemed to have entered each other's "blind spots" when considering their mafia scum pool. DVa said A50's read progression is genuine and mine is fake. Their proposed scum pool seems to be: {PP, Seph, DDL, Mew} based on their post to me. They stated they have town leaned PP so putting him in his pool for me to choose from makes no sense because that implies that you think they are mafia (DVa is fine with the players in that pool being lynched). A50 shows no qualms with helping a wagon on me led by the same player that they pushed at the start of D2 - not damning, but not a good look.

[Mewtaph]

I read DVa and A50's exchange more as scum theatre rather than TvT that both players happened to come out of it in agreeance that each other were both town. That is not the outcome you reach when they clearly fought each other in frustration and anger. That leads me to believe this is more likely staged than real.

[Mewtaph]

Going to sleep now. Bye.

[Mewtaph]

I don't really want the game state to stall but I can also see how I could be destroying town unity and possibly letting at least 1 lurker scum pass through without much notice. So I'm going to be relatively quieter for a bit.

[Mewtaph]

I don't really want the game state to stall but I can also see how I could be destroying town unity and possibly letting at least 1 lurker scum pass through without much notice. So I'm going to be relatively quieter for a bit.

This actually feels dissonant. Concerned about lurker scum, but going to lurk himself?

I just think I'm on the wrong pulse this game.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: PP

Not feeling him sneaking that vote in while not talking about me.

[Mewtaph]

Noted.

[Mewtaph]

UNVOTE:

[Mewtaph]

Gamma is a slot I'm having trouble having a strong opinion on so I'm fine discussing for a bit.

Gamma dismissing A50's in thread theatrics as genuine and turning on me as a "dark horse pick" (1147, 1148, 1292) immediately is alarming because it was an extremely sharp progression from their previous call on me being possibly a "concerned townie" (1071). I didn't take this as majorly AI in any one direction (need more content there to decide if it comes from town or scum intent) but it definitely put them on my radar. There is no way that A50 isn't aware of how he might genuinely react as town and then turn it up all the way to 100% because it's "genuine frustration" AFTER declaring intent to hammer and desire for a claim in 1101. Keep in mind this was on D1 before A50 claimed gunsmith today. How does Gamma ignore this? To what extent can genuine frustration come from town before they realise they should stop posting and take a step back and to what extent can scum take some form of frustration towards another player and then extent it for their own personal gain? Also, in terms of me "softballing" the question to Nako back on D1, I thought it was extremely important to highlight the depth of their reads because I have felt no depth from their read on me nor their reads list. They were pushing people stated in 933 in their "Feels somehow scummy but can just be the meta" category with their votes and wagons, before their "Scum in here" category. I think Nako's reads against their actions have been a bit weird if town.

@Gamma, what exactly is your read on me?

You hopped off of my wagon onto an Oka vote but most of your stances thus far with your slot have felt a bit like commentary on me as events unfold rather than a growing read progression - for how much doubt you've shown towards my slot, why aren't you more engaged in sorting me out into a definite category?

[Mewtaph]

End the day already so I can eat a bullet and enjoy talking to skitter in the dead thread.

Why do you think that you're going to die and why exactly are you so itchy towards having a short day? From your point of view, someone roleblocked you (or I'm lying as scum Ascetic and can be tested for being Ascetic the next night phase after claiming non-Ascetic). This suggests that there is at least one role that is capable of roleblocking and one of them targeted you N1. I don't understand the itch and fatalistic perspective considering that if you are a town gunsmith, your words have a lot of weight behind them walking into a day with just below 10 days left before deadline. That's a lot of time to just resign to putting my slot in a position where it's extremely hard to fight against your suspicion against me. That's a lot of time to just give up . If you are as invested in me being scum as your vote suggests, why aren't you engaged in trying to properly case me as to avoid the wagon dismantling and moving onto other targets?

Your approach to this day phase concerns me and if you're town you should consider trying to properly remove these concerns because ultimately there is a definite possibility scum leaves you around for WIFOM (assuming scum roleblocker). My problem is that you've shown no or little concern throughout this game which is troublesome - ignoring your open claim leaves me feeling uninspired about your slot.

[Mewtaph]

Why am I not your preferred vote?

P-edit: Mm noted.

[Mewtaph]

Ok.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: OkaPoka

[Mewtaph]

;_;

[Mewtaph]

Actually why do you keep setting up an easy intent to hammer on me like you did on tchill >_>
UNVOTE:

[Mewtaph]

I actually want an answer to that btw.

[Mewtaph]

What you are doing is not a stance, it is a repeated sprinkle of paranoia towards my slot.

[Mewtaph]

You're leaning into the "What if Mew scum" angle more than a "I feel buddied and don't like your ISO" warrants. Feels like double dipping. And yes, that was also what I interpreted you saying it was tchill's D1 meta and then you hammer him while saying that.

[Mewtaph]

"I'm going to be quieter" equates to exactly that - I recognise my pushes in some places simply weren't productive or useful so I need to be dropping that as that makes more noise than content. Why exactly does this needs to be accompanied by a push on an inactive player when my word has little sway in terms of actually making a wagon rather than people WIFOMing whoever I vote (like you have been doing for the entire day phase).

[Mewtaph]

Okay then. Yikes.

[Mewtaph]

I think it's better for clearing up scum equity if I get your stance/thoughts/etc. cleared up earlier so you can't fencesit later if scum. You're talking to me like I'm turning my townread on you into a scumread. All I'm seeking is clarification.

[Mewtaph]

That's the worst interpretation I can make of your posts, like you saying you don't like my "post less" post. It's not me making shit up on the spot, that's just what I could see happening assuming my entire read on you D1 is wrong. Not necessarily what I think is the most probable ATM.

P-edit Above.

[Mewtaph]

Like if you are scum then there's no way I get your attention by going gentle here. How else do you want me to go about it, "I'm concerned that Seph could be reiterating their dislike/paranoia/etc. of my slot". That's what I'm saying, I need a bit more than a fence sit to decide.

[Mewtaph]

Also don't try to act like you aren't equally guilty of not committing. You claim to have a tr on me but when questioned about the strength by oka earlier in the day decided that out of a pool the scum was probably me and voted there. If you have a townread as you're claiming, or even if you're claiming that now you're switching off of that tr, that flip onto me when questioned by Oka makes no sense. You need to get your story straight, or stop fencesitting then turning around and calling me scum for the same.

Yes, I am sorry and can see how that can be alarming from your point of view.

P-edit - Sorry. I am aware of this but am just trying to make sure I don't get back-ended here if I do end up eating the lynch.

[Mewtaph]

When you run out of penguin gifs on D2 :,(

[Mewtaph]

- ofrhz is the new joey_

New model TM.

[Mewtaph]

Scum probably won't push the game state forward while it's still clear I'm the "default" lynch via leading wagon. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is more indicative of me being town than scum.

[Mewtaph]

Do you have any recent scumgames Mew?

Nope.

[Mewtaph]

Kokichi is town so try again and read the thread.

[Mewtaph]

Kokichi is town so try again and read the thread.

But you are not town? Who is you partner? If it's not Kokichi, It's either DDl or PP.

Sorry but I am town, if you want to test that hypothesis you can go ahead and change your vote to me.

[Mewtaph]

Nako, how likely is DVa scum?

[Mewtaph]

Great. Have a spectacular catchup.

[Mewtaph]

sorry ive been inactive lately, just feeling demotivated to reread

that being said i feel like the response to my pp analysis was very weak in comparison to tchill and kokichi. tchill was town, im leaning town on kokichi, so maybe pp is actually scum/i might be onto something with high scum thing that scum just want to ignore? maybe?

IDK, it just kinda went over my head. A TL;DR of why you reached the conclusion you did would've helped.

[Mewtaph]

I've seen people approach me/Seph like there has to be one scum in it but not both together. Can someone explain how they reached this conclusion specifically?

[Mewtaph]

Mew, what's your read on DDL?

This is an odd question to ask me if you're trying to sort me directly so I guess you just want me to lock in my DDL read? I think DDL is a bad lynch simply because I think people's reasons for scumreading him aren't really indicative of him being scum. In terms of his general tone and responses to things, I think it's more likely to come from town. Now some people might just push the lynch on DDL through anyway because he's been wagoned before and so it's easier to get that lynch through and town are lazy and want to do scum's job for them (make mislynches out of misinterpreting townie behaviour), but I wouldn't be overtly shocked if DDL flipped town. Like a lot of his reasonings feel similar to mine and I'm not concerned about that being an attempt to match up with mine, I think that they are just his thoughts.

Spoiler:

Here are a couple posts looking back on his ISO that I liked.

Seph is a strong TR because he is actually providing some content and even a full read list already. I wanted to poke him in the nose for the messed up vote, but then felt other players won't understand and might think it a distraction, so I held myself back.

Ok so I'm pretty sure A50 is town. You don't pull blatantly crappy reads like this from scum

this is not a reason btw

I say I strong TR him for this and you tell me it's not a reason? I've just finished playing a game with the dude. I mean, he himself admits to being good at scum, but I have seen nothing to make me feel he's being deceptive at any rate so far in here.

1 not doing anything deceptive != your strongest town read.
2 unless you think seph-scum is blatant on not providing content early game, your strongest town read is also unjustified. + that would make him a shitty scum player.

these two games are close in time enough such that it shouldn't be drastically different in terms of time.

perusing the posts, it seems that tchill in the town
"in a general since a lynch day 1 has the most likelihood of hitting town. I'd be willing to bet town usually talk themselves out of lynching scum more than they talk themselves into lynching scum day 1. I usually have no preference unless i feel comfortable with my ability to read certain players or unless somehow someone lands in my "will always be suspicious of" list day 1. "
"Typical day 1. Nobody wants to lynch anybody lol. If we wagon every single player then honestly there's no reason to wagon anyone at all. Feel free to do so though."
"Will lynch today: literally anyone not in the above list." (list of 5 players)
"Please let us just lynch somebody. "

town tchill has one-hit wonders like
"every townie is expendable until from my own perspective have a reason to not vote them. "
"pg 20 should be the d1 limit."
"Scum is in a great spot. Thread is bogged down. We don't want to deal with low activity players. We can't decide on a lynch. This is why day 1 lynches don't matter."

god i hate meta dives. But here's my read. Scum tchill is less abrasive about hating day 1 then town tchill. But otherwise, not likin day 1 is not very alignment indicative.

Reads more like he's trying to figure out the game and sorting what strikes him as odd or otherwise important to the game state. His posts aren't overly flashy which makes me more confident that they are just going to flip town rather than scum.

Like the people that did the wagoning on tchill13 or did all the D1 active posting or whatever are just being lazy on trying to sort each other so my best guess is that we're going to land on DDL today because whoever the town is in that group can't be bothered to lift a finger so the rest of us get left in the cold.

[Mewtaph]

If you are confident in your theory and really think that you are onto something, then why aren't you pushing it?

[Mewtaph]

Mew and Tchill are partners GG.

[Mewtaph]

So if I'm a common thread in your calls on who is scum, why aren't you lynching me instead?

[Mewtaph]

Like I'm always partners with whoever you scumread, from one day of the week to the next.

It's almost like we're going to lose this game at lylo because you can't seem to lynch me first and all the associative tells from my slot are actually a reason to scumread other players. HINT: They aren't.

Newsflash, you're probably going to push on me at lylo or scum will use your read on my slot from D1 to push an ML on me and you will be approving it from the dead thread because you're that conf biased.

[Mewtaph]

If I could gladiate the votes off of DDL for the rest of the day, I would. Let's not lynch town today. If you couldn't vote for DDL, who would you vote for?

[Mewtaph]

Don't you think it's weird how quickly that wagon formed?

[Mewtaph]

What is your most compelling argument that DDL is scum?

[Mewtaph]

You know this day kinda sucks because I really don't want to be chasing some shiny coin that isn't actually scum but at the same time I need the people I think are scum to post.

[Mewtaph]

And a lot of people just reset their prod timer with that DDL development. So this is actually going to be a thing for a while. Sigh.

[Mewtaph]

See, my non-ascetic claim makes the claim less believable. If one of DDL/DVa flips scum then the other has a very strong chance to. Do not ignore this.

[Mewtaph]

If scum doesn't know if I'm ascetic or not, then they can't make the roleblocked A50 claim because they don't actually know if I'm ascetic or not. Whereas if town roleblocked A50, they already know and don't need me to claim ascetic or not.

[Mewtaph]

They can't do it if they didn't roleblock/JK A50 themselves. The claim doesn't make sense for DDL to target A50 because on D1 to DDL he was a null slot.

[Mewtaph]

Depends on how DDL was playing. If he wanted to go for blocking kills that would make sense.

If he wanted to go for blocking kills then he wouldn't have gone for A50. Based on his reads inthread, he would have JKed BEF.

[Mewtaph]

Well, his next likely scum on his list was you, and I don't think you were suspected in thread.

[Mewtaph]

Also why A50 over one of the masons?

this is embarassing but I thought he was scum and likely to make the kill on day end

I guess it is worth asking what about the flip made you change your read of a50 and why you wouldn't use the jk protectively... like why would you assume a50 would be the one to make the kill?

UNVOTE:

Why did you unvote DDL in this post. This is why I don't feel comfortable with ever townreading you in this game.

[Mewtaph]

NVM, read VC wrong. Still, not trusting of your slot and I think a dose of that is healthy enough.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: DrDolittle
L-1.

[Mewtaph]

A50 has major balls if DDL flips scum lol and he is scum himself. Probably town if flips scum.

[Mewtaph]

Oooh flash wagon on me. Fun.

[Mewtaph]

Nah unless this wagon disbands then I should claim first DVa.

[Mewtaph]

I can't see any reason for DrD to fake JK on me if Mew wasn't scum with him.

Umm I'm sorry but this is not even related to my alignment. The "I'm a town JK" claim is a PR claim, dissuades a lynch on them, but simply their action fits the game state but it didn't make sense coming from DDL.

[Mewtaph]

Also it makes no sense for a scum roleblocker to swap off of A50 to DVa.

[Mewtaph]

You mean the N1 kill only.

[Mewtaph]

Saying I'm 100% Ascetic is just stupid.

[Mewtaph]

TBH I think A50 is just scum, reminds me of JasonWazza's play in Death Note Mafia, just garbage play all round from a non-town alignment but saves themselves from lynch with a claim of their counterpart.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: Almost50

[Mewtaph]

Dude, ignoring A50's claim I seriously think that Seph is town and A50 is scum.

[Mewtaph]

The way the "roleblocked GS" came out was bad as well. Saved from bad play as scum rather than bad play as town. I doubt town!A50 does that but can see why scum!A50 does.

[Mewtaph]

TBH I think A50 is just scum, reminds me of JasonWazza's play in Death Note Mafia, just garbage play all round from a non-town alignment but saves themselves from lynch with a claim of their counterpart.

VOTE: Almost50

Also; I thought you wanted to claim something??

You can keep laughing. Scum laughed at me in my first game. Doesn't make my arguments less valid.

[Mewtaph]

I doubt town!A50 does that

How well you know me, again??

I don't buy your low-quality AtE. Meta is complementary to reading in the actual game at hand anyway.

[Mewtaph]

Pretty much as it stands its A50 vs Mew and losing a potential GS is a lot worse than most things Mew could possibly claim.

All of that is independent of personal scumreading fwiw.

Lynching scum is better than lynching town ftr.

[Mewtaph]

Why didn't A50 investigate me to test my Ascetic claim?

There you have it; town roleblocked scum investigative PR. Didn't roleblock the second night, and now he claims to have checked someone else, or possibly their actual scum action, which makes him seem more believable/like he's telling the truth when he isn't.

Do you realise how bad it is for scum!A50 to claim a no gun result on me? Then Seph flips town? Then his entire gameplay falls apart?

[Mewtaph]

Like they clearly have an action. I just don't believe that it is a town gunsmith's. His admission of silence/oops bye I'm out of the thread kind of already speaks wonders for me here.

[Mewtaph]

His reads are basic. He has no thought process. There's nothing holding me back from lynching that slot other than the claim, and that would've been the case at the start of D2 too.

Tell me again, why didn't this supposed town gunsmith A50 investigate me last night to test my Ascetic claim?

[Mewtaph]

Let me remind you of what this lynch is about again.

This Ascetic/Non-Ascetic bullshit. That's it. You all can have fun with deep scum after taking 2 day phases lynching me then Seph, that's not my game to play if you want to take solace in follow-the-investigative that probably isn't even a real thing.

[Mewtaph]

If he checks you again, how does he know you are ascetic or scum have a roleblocker?

If he checks you again and isn't roleblocked, he's going to have to ask himself, why didn't scum roleblock me? Perhaps they wanted a check to show Mafia doc and result in wifom etc.

If he checks you again, he can't clear anyone else.

Just from top of head.

Maybe because there's only been one person claiming roleblocked every day phase so far?! Let me remind you that this "I am Ascetic or scum roleblocked A50" bullshit was tinfoiled from the very beginning of his open claim. This isn't coincidence.

[Mewtaph]

I don't know why you are so insistent on winning me over now when you=town means that a town roleblocker can easily come and check in and end all of this.

It shouldn't take a c l a i m to lynch A50. Seriously.

[Mewtaph]

lynching me then Seph

?

What, his plan is pretty clear. Lynch me. Then when I flip green (I will), then what does he say? He already set up the 1 scum in me/Seph narrative. Which again, let me remind you guys, he didn't explain how he reached that conclusion.

[Mewtaph]

Ok, well you aren't even considering that A50 could be scum so I guess I'm done here. Have fun with my lynch.

[Mewtaph]

You'd rather follow the investigative than play the game. If you want to play the game of night actions, go right ahead.

[Mewtaph]

Just from top of head.

[Mewtaph]

Dude. You are literally defending the claim in every post because you want the game to be easier on yourself just in case he isn't a lying scum fuck. If you can't reflect back on your posts and see that you are doing this reflexively to the point where pointing actually scummy things out to you are being completely ignored, then that's not my problem if you think it's not worth much talking to you.

[Mewtaph]

I voted him for a different reason, actually. But keep at it.

[Mewtaph]

Whatever. If it takes a town lynch to get A50 lynch then I'll take that trade. Lynch A50 tomorrow.

[Mewtaph]

Alternate: Lynch A50 today.