Mini Normal 2066: Catloaves [Game Over!]

[u r a person 2]

Good morning! I look forward to playing with all of you today. =)

VOTE: insomnia

@alacrity Are you an alt? what kind of mafia experience do you have?

[/vote]Alacrity[/vote]

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: alacrity

[u r a person 2]

We have played before, actually! =)

neat

also bleh

because I have a pet theory that your opening post is scum-indicative for very new players, but not necessarily anyone else.

[u r a person 2]

We have played before, actually! =)

neat

also bleh

because I have a pet theory that your opening post is scum-indicative for very new players, but not necessarily anyone else.

My first post is there to help me get the footing of how Alacrity talks. I need that, otherwise I get found out too fast.

Is this enough to explain it?

Ah, I actually didn't need explanation outside of knowing this wasn't your first game.

I only have data to signify that it is significant for very new players.

I can't be arsed to try and guess mains, but pm me later if we have a good game? ;P

[u r a person 2]

oh, no I mean I'm not going to try and guess. Too much work. I'm not going to bug you about this anymore.

[u r a person 2]

Hello, first game on this site! I've played IRL and on a few different sites though, so don't panic too hard, everything I do is 100% rational.

Rationally not_mafia MUST be mafia! I got this case figured out!
VOTE: not_mafia

This is probably scum-indicative, tho, for the same tell

VOTE: NomNomNom

[u r a person 2]

When you say "very new player", what do you mean exactly? "New" can mean a lot of things. New account, new to this website, new to mafia? I'd like to know the element you base this on, exactly, because those are very different things.

Simply new to this website. I wouldn't be surprised if experience elsewhere could be factored in, though. I think the weight that experience would carry probably varies dramatically depending on the specific site.

[u r a person 2]

Voting the only person you know?
Isn't that a bit counter-intuitive?

Maybe, why?

I don't know, just a question that went through my mind when reading your post, so I'm asking since I'm curious.

Now that you've thought about it, do you think there is anything either bad or scum-indicative about voting for someone you know?

[u r a person 2]

It's like "out of all the people you could vote you pick that one person you know! Why???"

Personally, I can understand it. Like, if I know someone, I might get a better read off of an early interaction with them than with someone I have no framework for.

What do you think about Locke having three votes on him?

alternatively if you have any thoughts on anything, I'd take those. It's early, and I'm just looking to get inside your head. It doesn't matter what about.

[u r a person 2]

I'm less happy about three votes on Locke and lots of one-vote vanity wagons.

I also get bad gut feels from the above.

Should I jump on locke with you?

And gut feels on me or on NomNomNom?

[u r a person 2]

I think you should jump on if you think you should.

Gut feels were about Nom^3

I said I think you are prob!town.

Gotcha, just wasn't sure because of the hmm comment

[u r a person 2]

Do you usually ask for permission to join a wagon?

It is possible that I have asked a similar question before, but I can't think of one, so let's go with No.

Permission is not the word I would use though. I asked PP for his opinion on where my vote should be.

[u r a person 2]

I like Lockes questions, and this sounds stilted

Do you usually ask for permission to join a wagon?

It is possible that I have asked a similar question before, but I can't think of one, so let's go with No.

Permission is not the word I would use though. I asked PP for his opinion on where my vote should be.

I dont know if this is due to being carefully planned out as scum or it's just the tone they type with

My completed games are all listed on my wiki (button under my avatar)

Why don't you go find out?

[u r a person 2]

I'm liking roster for town I think

posts are bold and strong, like one with dinosaurs in their genes

[u r a person 2]

I’ve played with town URAP before. Tone was similar.

Can we all just lynch nomnom?

okay this is the only one that's actually bold and strong on its own, but the whole iso,

-slapping down an rvs vote
-reaffirming that vote and calling for a lynch by post 80ish
-and then slapping down three reasons (whether you agree with them or not)

I consider it bold

[u r a person 2]

I mean, I don't think lynching right now is necessarily the

best

play

But I'm game to see nom hammered right now, yeah.

[u r a person 2]

But I'm game to see nom hammered right now, yeah.

Why? If it's not the best play.

Sometimes its fun to buck the system and just let let loose, man

Are you picking up what I'm putting down, PP?

[u r a person 2]

"VERY BOLD AND BRAVE! LET'S LYNCH THEM RIGHT NOW EVEN IF IT'S NOT THE BEST PLAY IN MY MIND!"

I feel like you're presenting me in the voice of Dr. Worm =P

[u r a person 2]

Don't seem to be really.

ugh

then in all seriousness, I'm aware that we're not going to lynch anyone rn, so I'm not actually worried about making the less good play in this scenario

and I'm in a good mood tonight, so I had some fun with it

[u r a person 2]

I'll get behind that

VOTE: insomnia

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE:

initial impression is insomnia likely gets frustrated enough to replace out as town way more often than as scum.

That said, if he ends up not replacing out, it's NAI at best

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE:

initial impression is insomnia likely gets frustrated enough to replace out as town way more often than as scum.

That said, if he ends up not replacing out, it's NAI at best

Why is this your initial impresson?

I've been working on profiling Insomnia since his first game on site, and while I'm not trying to say that I have a complete understanding of him as a human being and as a mafia player, I see him as more likely to try and tackle the challenge of working his way out of a scum read, and more likely to get frustrated by incorrect scum reads on him

[u r a person 2]

It's NAI whether he does or doesn't replace out, both scum and town can get frustrated, especially when they're playing like 4 games at once

I guess we disagree. I'm not sure that I like the push back, either. What does the 4 games at once part have to do with it?

[u r a person 2]

ERRAAAGONNNN Let's jam when you read. I want to be right about this.

[u r a person 2]

It's NAI whether he does or doesn't replace out, both scum and town can get frustrated, especially when they're playing like 4 games at once

I guess we disagree. I'm not sure that I like the push back, either. What does the 4 games at once part have to do with it?

I'd imagine it could get stressful??? Like its not a hard concept to understand, like I'm in one other game than this and just the two has my head fried, can't imagine 4 at once

oh, gotcha. That's a stretch to apply that to Insomnia, I think.

[u r a person 2]

I'd imagine it could get stressful??? Like its not a hard concept to understand, like I'm in one other game than this and just the two has my head fried, can't imagine 4 at once

oh, gotcha. That's a stretch to apply that to Insomnia, I think.

Why is that a stretch?

I just don't think there is a basis upon which to presume stress over the number of games had anything to do with it. And Insomnia seems like he has the time to play them =)

[u r a person 2]

It's NAI.

Eragon is here now...so let's see what he does.

So far - no change.

you're nai

[u r a person 2]

just trying to see if i remember, the "Scumtell" is a newbie(generally) entering with a bland "hey guys" post?

Any greeting to the thread as a whole, yes. Saying hello to one or more individuals doesn't seem to be ai.

[u r a person 2]

uggghhhhhhhh GW I want to vote alacrity but why are you so scummy

[u r a person 2]

Why did you give intent to vote Insomnia if you wanted alacrity

[u r a person 2]

wait no i dont. why are the votes going on alacrity?

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE: PenguinPower

I will wait for Eragon to catch up and to let my thoughts settle before voting again!

This is why ya'll are voting alacrity?

No, thank you.

I had alacrity and nomnomnom mixed. I want nomnomnom or GW I think

[u r a person 2]

You somehow wanted to vote there but in the absence of a response decided that you didn't?

There's been a bunch of discussion about nomnomnom in the last few pages, and I sort of thought you voted nom after the exchange with them, and then I just associated the vote from GW with nom. I mix nouns on occasion. It's a thing.

[u r a person 2]

What is that supposed to mean? I thought you read PP as scum?

As a counter question, would you say my PenguinPower vote helped move the game forward?

That's not the point of my question. You are unvoting your scum read because of an element that doesn't and shouldn't even affect your scum read.
Besides, how does your unvote "help move the game forward" more than your PP vote?

Yeah, I saw the reasoning..

[u r a person 2]

That timing on her not answering and vanishing all of a sudden is also something that makes me confident about this. I honestly don't care if this is a new wagon. She's scum.

I mean, this is not a good reason. Guessing why people start/stop posting is super unreliable. So if it wasn't the unvote, then? And if it was the unvote, then - again - no thank you

[u r a person 2]

but again, why is being "Bold" neccesarily towny?

i'd argue it's less likely to come from scum, but I don't think it's inherently townie.

your point on 83 is good.

[u r a person 2]

oh wait
were you serious about wanting nom lynched like, now.

I might have gone along with it if it had actually happened just because of the mood I was in that day, but it wasn't a thing that was going to happen, and I understood that. I made a post about this I'm sure you'll come across.

I could go for lynching nom tonight, tho

[u r a person 2]

Back tomorrow...night.

Same here, way too tired and I was waiting for an Alac response mostly, but that didn't happen. Will give my thoughts on all of this tomorrow.

Sweet dreams, kids <3

[u r a person 2]

this is a scummy wagon

add milkcartonkid to the list of people who are better lynches than this

[u r a person 2]

well, maybe not scummy

but bad

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

Enigmas are scum. Alacrity remains an enigma.

VOTE: Alacrity

Urap does have a point: strange to vote this when you gave intent on Insom.

That timing on her not answering and vanishing all of a sudden is also something that makes me confident about this. I honestly don't care if this is a new wagon. She's scum.

I mean, this is not a good reason. Guessing why people start/stop posting is super unreliable. So if it wasn't the unvote, then? And if it was the unvote, then - again - no thank you

It's the mix of not liking her first messages, unvote and timing on the vanish.
Also honestly I come from a chat mafia background. Timing is basis of a lot of my reads because of this, it's just common sense to me.

oh wait
were you serious about wanting nom lynched like, now.

I might have gone along with it if it had actually happened just because of the mood I was in that day, but it wasn't a thing that was going to happen, and I understood that. I made a post about this I'm sure you'll come across.

I could go for lynching nom tonight, tho

I seriously dislike the lack of commitment in that answer, especially given the context of you eventually switching your vote to Insom away from me.
Did you want to lynch me when roster asked you so? Yes or no? Choose one.

this is a scummy wagon

add milkcartonkid to the list of people who are better lynches than this

How is milk a better lynch? This is the first time you mention the name, even.

I suggest you stop using the timing bit for your reads because this isn't chat mafia =) I bet it works well there, tho.

I've explained that comment twice now, and you don't have to like it.

I think MCK looks scummy. I didn't like this whole exchange:

Spoiler:

I think insomnia blew up way too quickly. I super think that was scummy. But I think we should see the replacement first. Because it could be just another thing altogether. A replacement gives us more info and it could be a strong town player if insomnia was town. To be clear, I do want to lynch them, but not yet

UNVOTE:

initial impression is insomnia likely gets frustrated enough to replace out as town way more often than as scum.

That said, if he ends up not replacing out, it's NAI at best

Why is this your initial impresson?

I'm gonna ask again: is this type of thing common on this site? Like, replacing out like that, I mean.

It happens too often (and often for the wrong reasons) imo.

YMMV, I havent experienced it yet

and since that post, I didn't like this:

Spoiler:

Although I am townreading nom for being newbie and an easy lynch i will say that she could easily be trying to push for a lynch by grasping for straws. Especially how she said "this is scummy" and then "yeah... this is scummy," and votes in a second post later. Could be testing the waters.

I think you're right about it being followed by scum though. I think VOTE: grandwazoo is a good guess at scum, but I dont know if it's the most useful vote. I dont have a better alternative yet.

[u r a person 2]

The first bit I didn't like is because 1) I think you're wrong about the read on insomnia's replace out, it feels like an opportunistic read, and then it felt like you were more interested in dropping that discussion than reevaluating.

I don't like the fence-sitting nature of the read on nomnom followed by an unreasoned turn to grand wazoo (why is he the one likely to be scum?) and the undercutting of the value of that vote by questioning it's usefulness. I think it's scummy.

[u r a person 2]

I disagree with this, I know way more people who are bold as scum than town. Actually know a bunch of people who freeze when town because they dont know where to start

Do you have reason to believe roster is one of those people?

[u r a person 2]

I disagree with this, I know way more people who are bold as scum than town. Actually know a bunch of people who freeze when town because they dont know where to start

Do you have reason to believe roster is one of those people?

Not at the moment, but it is strictly NAI for me and it was a big part of your read so it makes the read not as strong

I've played with town!Roster, though, so I have reason to believe he isn't one to freeze up as town.

[u r a person 2]

Further, it's another instance of you undercutting a read without actually working to build a read there.

I think I want this.

VOTE: TheMilkCartonKid

[u r a person 2]

Which game?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: grand wazoo

[u r a person 2]

GW,

I asked Alacrity if they were an alt because I wanted to know if my scum-tell was applicable in her case. So they didn't just come in here boasting it. And I think the guess my main bit was the result of her to misreading another one of my posts, as well.

Further, this is really shallow reasoning, and it's pretty common for people to both disclose that they are alts and refuse to disclose their mains. So it isn't scum indicative.

I think it is scummy that you've pushed it, but regardless of your alignment I would suggest that you let it go.

[u r a person 2]

First of all, it wasn't a misrep. I asked a question.

Why did you give intent to vote Insomnia if you wanted alacrity

So let's stop with your misrep, please.

I saw that you had been scum reading alacrity

but I also Saw that you didn't want to vote insomnia because you were worried about a quickhammer

So I don't understand why your vote wasn't on alacrity

heck you could have done both

and then your answer to my question was not reassuring, either.

Why did you give intent to vote Insomnia if you wanted alacrity

It was a play on the "L-2 is the new L-1" comment. It was clear that wagon would stall after Insom repped out.

This sounds like you were giving half-hearted support to a wagon you didn't really believe in, and without any real purpose because you thought the wagon would fall apart anyway.

And if that's how you felt about Insomnia, then I REALLY don't understand why your vote wasn't on alacrity to begin with?

[u r a person 2]

First of all, it wasn't a misrep. I asked a question.

No, you insinuated that my Alacrity vote came out of nowhere. It clearly didn't.

back this up if you're going to continue with it. because it's false.

[u r a person 2]

Again, I was riffing on Penguin's remark. Not a great riff maybe. I certainly didn't worry about a quickhammer by NM or anyone else since I was already SR Insomnia.

So you weren't afraid of a quick hammer
And you actually scum read insomnia
And you were actually supportive of the wagon, which you thought was about to collapse

So you riffed on Penguin's remark instead of voting because you thought that was the best way to stop the wagon from breaking apart? If I'm you with the above givens, I'm voting there every time and pushing a case, ya?

[u r a person 2]

What's your read on NM? Are occasional shit-takes and naked votes just his meta?

Never played with him, but my understanding is that he plays like this, yes. I don't have a read on him.

I am getting more confident that I'm voting scum, though.

Can I get some thoughts from others on GW?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Grand Wazoo

Wanna talk about it?

[u r a person 2]

Gee, I can't imagine what gave you that idea. =/

this is a scummy wagon

add milkcartonkid to the list of people who are better lynches than this

well, maybe not scummy

but bad

[u r a person 2]

I can't help but feel urap is trying to deflect the Alacrity wagon.

I'm saying that this isn't some big secret. I've been pretty explicit about my feelings towards that wagon.

[u r a person 2]

First you chose milkcartonkid, without any mention of the guy beforehand, and that time period was the only one where he started talking more often.

I think that seeing that it didn't stick, you took a look at who else was talking,

It was actually that I read the game he linked, and a good deal of the tones and.. let's say class of reads that he was pushing there were similar to what I was scum reading him for here

GW is probably scum tho, I like this vote

[u r a person 2]

No... This is wrong. The timing on all this is so wrong. This feels so disingenuous.
Jesus christ why are you so scummy sounding

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Grandwazoo

L-1

Wanna talk about it?

[u r a person 2]

Okay, NM is probably town.

[u r a person 2]

Urap prolly isn't scum. He just sucks at reading me.

I'm basically getting pushed for being a prick. This is a really, really bad wagon.

He's not wrong. I misread him in our only completed game, I believe?

I don't think that's happening here, but if you're thinking of sheeping me, keep this in mind.

[u r a person 2]

Ok this is actually scum.

VOTE: URAP

is it because i have a read on a slot you don't think is possible? (nm)

or because you think im backing off of my GW vote?

[u r a person 2]

Okay, NM is probably town.

Excuse me?

So, I don't believe that NM didn't know where his vote was, so I think he knew it was a fake hammer.

Is that scummy or townie?

Someone who plays like NM is probably going to get scum read for it, and is very unlikely to get town read for it since he doesn't explain his actions, so I don't see a scum motivation.

But town!NM fake hammering is doing so for reactions - which you exposing him so quickly stopped dead in its tracks. =/

This isn't a new concept. I've seen it done/have done it in at least a couple of games if you want to see.

It's probably town!nm tho =)

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: ur a person 2 I dont see how trying to pinpoint n-m as town here helps and I also super doubt that THAT helped you sort him. Seems tmi. Plus, a major deescalation that seemed very appreciative of being called town.

what deescalation? My vote is on GW lol

[u r a person 2]

how is it anti-town, tho?

let's say you don't blow up his spot, and GW thinks he's hammered. Then when he spews his role, it's basically a free cop check?

to say nothing of ancillary reactions.

[u r a person 2]

ugggh okay w.e i guess fake hammering isnt a thing and im full of shit =/

[u r a person 2]

I'm wondering if scum have some weird mecha where they get rewarded for double voting. Alacrity and NM have both done it. This doesn't happen by accident on the same wagon.

And no Urap I didn't think I was hammered. I may be a prick but I'm not an idiot lol

Hey, you don't have to be an idiot to not realize someone was already on the wagon. I've was fooled by a quickhammer once.

And I actually figured your post right after it was probably a p.edit, so I was going to discount it. (esp. thought this because of the wording "this push is bad" or something. It didn't sound like you thought you had just been hammered.)

But I could see NM fake hammering to try and get your reaction. And I don't see why scum!NM would fake hammer at all.

[u r a person 2]

Comment was more directed to urap, sorry.

I'm sorry - I'm not sure what comment was directed to me, so if you're waiting on a question please repost it

[u r a person 2]

This bit, I know you didn't mention a gambit but I wrote this with you in mind:

Also don't make me believe a "gambit" from someone that literally hasn't said anything during the game is a good thing.

Oh yeah, I would have you believe that, yes.

[u r a person 2]

PP,
i think it's 3 votes a piece on me and GW

[u r a person 2]

spooooky

[u r a person 2]

A ffs...from an easy read to...

Elsa.

I want to personally let you know I laughed uncontrollably reading this. I'm still laughing. Please help...

deep breaths... maybe put down the cake for a while, you'll be okay.

[u r a person 2]

So... are we saying that alacrity is scum-slipping for knowing there are 3 scum in a game where that is highly unlikely

or saying they are town-slipping for thinking there are three scum when scum and anyone in the know would assume there are two?

or saying that it's neither and alacrity is scum trying to make us believe there are three scum when there are actually two?

for the record, I did not know whether there would be two or three scum.

[u r a person 2]

Speaking of setup theory and all that:

@Mod does mafia have daychat or not? I was checking the wiki earlier and it's said there that this kind of thing is mentioned in the ruleset? Just wanna make sure.

also I want to read this as scum trying to dumb-tell so badly but it probably is just town

[u r a person 2]

I've never played here

hence why "it probably is just town"

[u r a person 2]

Or Masons.

not I, nope

[u r a person 2]

Hell I also just realized that you both scumread milkcartonkid too. Like what is this lol

ehh, I backed off that read

Your reads are wrong, but the silver lining is that you're town-telling

[u r a person 2]

Like I said. Masons. Scum should kill one so the other is confirmed for town k thx.

since you think we're masons (we're not), how about we lynch GW?

[u r a person 2]

Why would I ever listen to a Mason or Innocent Child though? What proof is there that they're town?

So you still prefer an alacrity lynch, then?

[u r a person 2]

I dont have any preferred lynch ATM. That's a lie. I do. But that's a story for another day.

Is there a story suited for today? =)

[u r a person 2]

GW, what are your reads at this point?

I agree that the flow of this game feels odd, but the argument that it means this wagon must be scum driven because I'm on it is not compelling fmpov (lol)

If not GW, I think I want Eragon, Jay, or Locke today

[u r a person 2]

I was probs wrong on insomnia rep out, I guess

VOTE: eragon

[u r a person 2]

gw still scummy, btw

but eragon reps in to a quiet game and is like, ok this works for me. doesn't sit right

[u r a person 2]

I don't want to end this day without a good read on eragon, do you?

Stay on GW, we can get back there at eod

[u r a person 2]

gw still scummy, btw

but eragon reps in to a quiet game and is like, ok this works for me. doesn't sit right

Why doesn't it sit right with you? Do you have experience playing with eragon? Or is this a non-meta based feeling?

Also sorry for the lack of activity everybody, was busy finishing off DMC5 then this game kinda just slipped my mind

I have played with eragon, but it's not a meta-read. I've never seen eragon rep into a game. But when i rep in I look to contribute and solve and I'm just not seeing that. It's killed my town read on insomnia as well

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE: on the road rn don't want hammer

[u r a person 2]

PP, I am not actually scum reading Insomnia, and my data set for him has increased significantly since the basis for that read. I think that slot is town regardless of eragon's shit.

I'm liking Locke or Alacrity for today. Thoughts?

[u r a person 2]

my data set for him has increased significantly since the basis for that read

to clarify - since the town read I made on that slot based on the replace out, my understanding of insomnia's play has been adjusted due to recently finished games, and i think this was town insomnia.

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: alacrity

[u r a person 2]

why the vote change?

[u r a person 2]

ehh, i could still do GW today too tho

[u r a person 2]

Then I don't get your play in the past 24 hours.

I will do Alacrity but not Locke.

eragon was an easy wagon target, right? He's basically not here. so i placed a vote, and hey look what happened

this exchange did not look good imo

Spoiler:

gw still scummy, btw

but eragon reps in to a quiet game and is like, ok this works for me. doesn't sit right

Why doesn't it sit right with you? Do you have experience playing with eragon? Or is this a non-meta based feeling?

Also sorry for the lack of activity everybody, was busy finishing off DMC5 then this game kinda just slipped my mind

gw still scummy, btw

but eragon reps in to a quiet game and is like, ok this works for me. doesn't sit right

Why doesn't it sit right with you? Do you have experience playing with eragon? Or is this a non-meta based feeling?

Also sorry for the lack of activity everybody, was busy finishing off DMC5 then this game kinda just slipped my mind

I have played with eragon, but it's not a meta-read. I've never seen eragon rep into a game. But when i rep in I look to contribute and solve and I'm just not seeing that. It's killed my town read on insomnia as well

Well then I'm fine with helping start the Insomnia/Eragon wagon back up again, after all my read on GW is mainly based off the possibility of him being Insomnia's scum partner so why not find out whether Insomnia/Eragon is scum first

VOTE: Eragon

[u r a person 2]

Locke was on the original wagon too...so what?

I mean if he had just naked voted, then I agree so what? I mean he already had a scum read there, right?

but he asked for justification. It feels super off

[u r a person 2]

it's not the only data point in the scum read, and we can get into that for sure, I'll set time out to make a post tonight or in the morning, but I'm a bit distracted atm.

[u r a person 2]

whats GW at?

[u r a person 2]

looks like 3

VOTE: GW

[u r a person 2]

GG all! Fun game! Enjoyed following along after death

Eragon, that was an actual scum slip, yea?

[u r a person 2]

wow ballsy. I would have lynched the shit out of him for that

[u r a person 2]

Yeah I'm not trying to take away from your victory. I meant it like, "wow, impressive... I would have lynched him for sure"

You guys played well.

Also I think it was lulzy that you decided I was the town glue in one of my lowest activity games lolol

yay me I felt like I sucked

[u r a person 2]

Hop on conspiracy theories with urap and you’re getting tred by him. Also, be willing to understand his pov and agree with him on as many things as possible

Nom, vote me in rvs

wow this is like pro level pocketing strat for me

[u r a person 2]

yeah i think we had a miscommunication. I was saying if you wanted to reveal yourself via pm after that would be cool

[u r a person 2]

you guys give me too much credit btw. in the future you should let me live to lylo so i can lose town the game

[u r a person 2]

I think it's immoral to replace out fro strategic reasons. `just don't do that in the future, please? <3

I agree

I ranted about it for like... 2 posts in scumchat

wow ballsy. I would have lynched the shit out of him for that

even if you and the 2 most experienced players knew it was false just from looking at it

<3

Yeah, I think I would have. I tend to try not to overthink those kinds of things. It looks scummy, it is scummy

[u r a person 2]

my choice of target had nothing to do with the outcome of this game.