Mini 2074: Madness at Port Arthur (Game Over)

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf replaces Shiidaji.

Nuff said

[Flavor Leaf]

Last Night Tomorrow coming Last Night Tomorrow’s tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pretty sure this game is actually bastard, by the way. Just a heads up to not be surprised later.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pretty sure this game is actually bastard, by the way. Just a heads up to not be surprised later.

Rule 40 specifically says it isn't, so you threw that out there because...?

I mean, I know it said that, but there’s been plenty of mods who say that, and then it accidentally is.

I can prove it later in the game, and I will literally allow everyone to lynch me because of it later in the game. I don’t think it’s like way out there bastard. Or potentially even bastard, but definitely closer to bastard than to normal, if that makes sense.

No moderator lies no ridiculous alignment changing roles, but it’ll definitely annoy some people post game. If that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gonna claim it right now, i’m a 3rd party, but I essentially win with town at end game.

I’ll full claim later.

I don’t know why i’m 3rd party tbh. This just seems like a town role, just i have the potential to lose even if town wins.

[Flavor Leaf]

You get to lynch me too, so I literally can’t get away. Just later.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t have any night actions, but I have passive abilities.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor as fun as it is to read your crazy claims as a spectator I’m much more interested in you providing reads rn please and thank you
I recognize that if you’re trueclaiming then your trueclaiming but your reputation precedes you to the point where I can’t really take anything relating to setup or role stuff at face value from you so please give me some reads that will help me sort you

At the same time, with this mantra, even if i’m Not currently doing anything, it’s known that regardless of alignment, I would be coming and giving reads, so i’m Not sure the point of this comment.

I state my reads when i state my reads. If i don’t state them, i don’t really have them. And I state thoughts on specifics

[Flavor Leaf]

Gonna claim it right now, i’m a 3rd party, but I essentially win with town at end game.

I’ll full claim later.

I don’t know why i’m 3rd party tbh. This just seems like a town role, just i have the potential to lose even if town wins.

This thread needed some spice.

I mean, look at my banner. I’m gonna get Best Performance Town and Best 3rd Party in the same game here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Jk on the BPTown, just gotta defend my throne this year, and when else was I gonna Role 3rd.

[Flavor Leaf]

Jk on the BPTown

, just gotta defend my throne this year, and when else was I gonna Role 3rd.

What does the bolded mean?

Just kidding on the best party town because I’m not town here. 3rd party

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor as fun as it is to read your crazy claims as a spectator I’m much more interested in you providing reads rn please and thank you
I recognize that if you’re trueclaiming then your trueclaiming but your reputation precedes you to the point where I can’t really take anything relating to setup or role stuff at face value from you so please give me some reads that will help me sort you

townposting ^^^^

Disagree. Irrelephant’s actually my first scum read.

[Flavor Leaf]

The thing that’s already stressing me out is how Flavor and I have in a previous game tunneled each other to a town loss, mostly out of frustration with each other’s personalities, and I’m already frustrated with how he’s engaged with me/my slot in the short amount of time he’s been in the thread and I’m actually like having to take really intentional slow deep breaths rn

That was possibly my least favorite loss and I would like to at least get along with Flavor this time

I think it was more because I couldn’t get anyone to see that RC was scum and thus I got pushed for it.

[Flavor Leaf]

That was my only time being mislynched in 2017-2018, I believe

[Flavor Leaf]

I have no issues with your personality, nor did I continue scum reading you there.

Gemeni was my main scum read.

I’m also known as one of the biggest flip floppers with my reads

[Flavor Leaf]

The thing that’s already stressing me out is how Flavor and I have in a previous game tunneled each other to a town loss, mostly out of frustration with each other’s personalities, and I’m already frustrated with how he’s engaged with me/my slot in the short amount of time he’s been in the thread and I’m actually like having to take really intentional slow deep breaths rn

That was possibly my least favorite loss and I would like to at least get along with Flavor this time

I think it was more because I couldn’t get anyone to see that RC was scum and thus I got pushed for it.

I mean I have a distinct memory of reaching out to you in lylo and having you shut me down hard because, and I quote, “this is town RC”
But however you want to remember it

I’m the one that was mislynched there, though, so i don’t understand this thought process.

[Flavor Leaf]

Chara’s also probably scum.

Thoughts, Chara?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t remember the game too much, except I flip flopped on you a lot. I also think I hard town read TW, yet I made the classic FL town tell by going on and lynching him anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lol, was my slot already voting Irrelephant or did I vote and forget?

[Flavor Leaf]

*sigh*
Care to explain your read?

You and Chara seemingly reacted in a specific way that i see scum do around me.

Vorkuta/HitAlt got hard WIFOM’d recently because I claimed Day 3 IC and did this cologne gambit, and it drove them wild.

I see similarities in yours and Chara’s play. These are my first impression reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

*sigh*
Care to explain your read?

You and Chara seemingly reacted in a specific way that i see scum do around me.

Vorkuta/HitAlt got hard WIFOM’d recently because I claimed Day 3 IC and did this cologne gambit, and it drove them wild.

I see similarities in yours and Chara’s play. These are my first impression reads.

Chara hasn't reacted to your claim yet.

I said my replacing in moreso than my claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, I meant my replacing in. Which chara did comment on.

[Flavor Leaf]

For what it's worth, my reaction to the claim is similar to Irrelephant's. I can see what you are talking about with respect to Chara's reaction to your replacing in, but for the Irrelephant part, are you referring to the post claim reactions?

Again, moreso talking about the replacing in itself moreso than the claim. It’s the combination in their case

[Flavor Leaf]

Chara’s also probably scum.

Thoughts, Chara?

i'd tunnel you hard if you kept this read throughout the game, are my thoughts. i think my no-mislynch pattern can beat you.
i was worried, but since you've already claimed 3p, i don't need to worry about you being town anymore. now it's down to you actually being scum, vs. you being a 3p that may or may not help us. the eventuality of 1v1ing town Flavor is off the table. i don't think i'm that good at reading you, and the experience that sticks in my head is that scumgame where i figured out you were scum just in time to be nightkilled and for us to lose. the one with the inno mislynch.

but i am still pretty wary of scum you so i'll see where your content goes!

Why is me being town claiming 3rd party off the table here?

I’m not. I’m just 3rd party, but yeah. I’ll win with town, and you can lynch me later in the game to prove it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just came off a game where I claimed Day 3 IC Day 1, and everyone in the game knew it was BS, even scum, but it drove scum wild.

I got a Vig shot on the most dangerous scum that night instead.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m the one that was mislynched there, though, so i don’t understand this thought process.

i'm confused, what does you being mislynched have to do with your scumread on RC becoming a townread in that game?

The game in question was Me, Irrelephant, RC, Gemeni, and...Srceenplay?

I don’t understand your question. That was in response to Irrelephant saying I’m the one who misread him when I’m the one that was mislynched.

I flip flop all over the place and if I town read someone that doesn’t mean I think they are town and vice versa.

Fork Mafia I specifically didn’t town read Flubber, so that’s how I knew he wasn’t scum and was actually town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is me being town claiming 3rd party off the table here?

I’m not. I’m just 3rd party, but yeah. I’ll win with town, and you can lynch me later in the game to prove it.

because i wouldn't believe you if you claimed town later. even if i thought of the possibility i wouldn't take any actions that put faith into it.
unless you really really towned it up, i suppose?

Off of one entrance claim? Noted.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t understand your question. That was in response to Irrelephant saying I’m the one who misread him when I’m the one that was mislynched.

pretty sure he was talking about you misreading each other, to which you responded that you were misread because of your RC scumread (and not believed), but then later called RC town in lylo and got mislynched.

so unless elephant is lying about you two tunneling each other, i'm confused about the issue there.
but i also wasn't in the game, so.

I went after everyone in that game. He just went after me more than others, so he got more than others got.

I read him correctly at times as well. I flip flop. People just focus on the times when I didn’t.

I think it’s silly to not have evolving reads.

And how is that a gamble.

Do you think I wouldn’t do something like that as town?

I’ll quote Nero Cain “In my experience, gambity Boon is town Boon.”

[Flavor Leaf]

Yes

[Flavor Leaf]

My town game is stronger than my scum game, especially as of late.

[Flavor Leaf]

RCE is good at reading me.

[Flavor Leaf]

that's a no then?

I’ve never mislynched RCEnigma, so I guess I am.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s different, though. When I’m scum, people don’t know I’m gambiting.

[Flavor Leaf]

Posting as much as FL.

i think you're kinda doing the not-posting thing tbh

Plus, I’m playing it for my own alignment

[Flavor Leaf]

Thought you said you were town siding, help a guy out.

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thought you said you were town siding, help a guy out.

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

And why would we bargain with someone that has a “Best 3p player” banner under their name? You have to prove your loyalty, by lynching a scum.

I’ll lynch a scum.
I don’t have to prove anything, I said that I can be lynched, and I can achieve my wincon right after that for a dual victory.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

I'm agreeing with insomnia here. If you're with town, then fully disclose your role. Otherwise, 3p is anti-town, and you're the default lynch since no one is blatant scum so far.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This is scum.

Can’t do it now, or I’ll lose.

I’ve already stated that I can be lynched and still win later in the game, so this is inherently scum indicative of Persivul.

[Flavor Leaf]

So I'm not incentivized to defend FL here but it's likely the worst Lynch for day 1 at least. I think persi voting there is town however, I'd prefer targeting scumreads over a slot that may not be a threat to town in the first place.

VOTE: Tris you've convinced me that you're town but not really that Tris is scum but I'll sheep it.

Disagree. It’s not town indicative at all when I’ve claimed I can be lynched later in the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf please explain your win condition
I prefer a Smile lynch to a tris lynch and also am losing my townread on skitter for changing the lynch direction after smile’s crap scumcase on insomnia

Why would I ever give leeway to me not being able to win with you? When scum know my win con, I essentially won’t win anymore.

Just know, Later in the game, I will flat out help you lynch me for a dual victory, so I literally can’t win in that scenario as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thought you said you were town siding, help a guy out.

I

just basically also win with town

, so yeah, I’m town siding,

just don’t screw me over,

and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

If you win by getting lynched, what do you mean by “don’t screw me over” ? You’re blatantly lying.

From your PoV, getting “screwed” results into a win for you, so why’d you request the thing that’s opposite to your wincon?

I’m 3rd party. I’m allowed to lie, and I do that as town as well.

I can’t say my fucking win con.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, I’m most truthful when I’m scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Put a vote on him.

I don’t get lynched pre day 3.

[Flavor Leaf]

Later in the game,

When?

HmmMm, lylo, or whenever I deem it necessary. You can lynch me there too, but essentially you can just lynch me in that case so I can’t pull the wool over anyone.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, I’m most truthful when I’m scum.

So you're less truthful now. Got it.

If I was lying about being 3rd party, I’d be more likely doing that as town than scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Regardless, lynch me in lylo. :shrug:

Like i said, i don’t agree with this game not being bastard based on my role.

[Flavor Leaf]

LYLO? WTF, that was exactly the wrong answer.

Lol

[Flavor Leaf]

If you kill me early, this game is gonna end with a scum victory by end of Day 2.

I have a bastard af role, and don’t really feel like putting too much energy here until later because of it.

I never claim in this fashion as scum. I’m more cunning with it when I am scum, and crumb forever before I do it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was in OK2 with you where you claimed scum like 5 posts in but that's neither here nor there. The way persi framed his day 1 play, the low info gamestate, and compromising for a Lynch on someone he knows isn't town versus someone he hopes isn't town all point town.

Disagree. I’ve been scum with him before. He knows I don’t post like this, and this is way different than OK2, so idk why you’re pushing it like it’s At all similar. Those were clearly joke posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

RCEnigma is scum here WK’ing if Persivul is town he only knows it because he already knows it, ya know?

[Flavor Leaf]

If you say hatcheting btw I'm adding my vote.

I specifically stated WK’ing.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was in OK2 with you where you claimed scum like 5 posts in but that's neither here nor there. The way persi framed his day 1 play, the low info gamestate, and compromising for a Lynch on someone he knows isn't town versus someone he hopes isn't town all point town.

Disagree. I’ve been scum with him before. He knows I don’t post like this, and this is way different than OK2, so idk why you’re pushing it like it’s At all similar. Those were clearly joke posts.

It's not relevant to this game except that I've seen poor early claims out of you. I'm not worried about you being 3p if we can mutually benefit by having you around. But I think persivul is town.

I’ve never seen a poor early claim by me, so idk what this is referring to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, my mason claim with Creature that one game was rough, but he just killed me right before I was gonna retract it and hard tunnel, so i actually don’t think that was a poor claim either, Creature just countered me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Did somebody say L-1?

VOTE: Smile

[Flavor Leaf]

Well that was easier than I thought

Vengekill: Irrelephant

WOOT.

GG I WON.

If Irrelephant is killed by means other than lynch, I win.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would like to say that

Beauty is a spoon

- march

I guess I'm a spoon.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL do you really win because that would be sorta fun but also awkward if your thing is true and Smile’s isnt

Yeah, it's true. I gave Smile a Vengekill earlier on. That's my role. I just got lucky that he shot you. I give a vengekill to 1 person per day.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, Chara's so scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can post in Twilight here, you're fine.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, Chara's so scum here.

you're the one who cheered at the murder of a majestic elephant. who's the

real

scum here?

Not scum; I'm 3rd party. You're scum.

I won already.

[Flavor Leaf]

you're allowed to post until the mod announces you're dead.

pedit: still don't believe you.

:shrug: I'm not scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

probably skitter and brown eyes.

[Flavor Leaf]

still 3rd party, and I never hammer my buddy there. Poor analysis.

[Flavor Leaf]

ScumSmile essentially doesn't get lynched with ScumFL partner in that scenario.

[Flavor Leaf]

nah, I never bus a buddy like that. I also don't sit back and do nothing while a buddy gets wagon'd.

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm obviously kidding on that part.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well that was easier than I thought

Vengekill: Irrelephant

WOOT.

GG I WON.

If Irrelephant is killed by means other than lynch, I win.

i don't believe this is a real thing

i'm obviously kidding on that part.

I like to get people riled up.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also never have them kill Irrelephant with how I was towards Irrelephant and vice versa earlier.

Smile-FL is never Scum-Scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

and your poor analysis on that matter is more evident there. I have nothing on Brown eyes, just seemed right in the gut.

[Flavor Leaf]

RCE can further case why I am never scum with Smile here based on my lack of defense for Smile, and my hammer.

[Flavor Leaf]

i mean the fact that you felt the need to come back here to rebut that when you were ignoring other things people said to you is kinda telling

exactly. telling that if I'm not 3rd party, I'm town.

[Flavor Leaf]

ok caught up

also not really townreading chara

towniest thing you have said here tbh. Chara is in fact scummier than you are.

[Flavor Leaf]

ok i will take him up on that tomorrow
how are you reading rce (for the fourth time now?)

he's probably scum, but I'm gonna say I town read him, and I might be right to town read him, and he might be town, but he still has to case me.

[Flavor Leaf]

i mean the fact that you felt the need to come back here to rebut that when you were ignoring other things people said to you is kinda telling

exactly. telling that if I'm not 3rd party, I'm town.

no it's indicative that you feel the need to defend against me proposing that team

well, I've stated you're likely scum, and you had really bad analysis that is completely contradictory to how I am as scum. So yes, it's town indicative of me.

[Flavor Leaf]

because, ya know, like I've said before, I basically win with town.

[Flavor Leaf]

that's not a real answer and you know it

ok i will take him up on that tomorrow
how are you reading rce (for the fourth time now?)

he's probably scum, but I'm gonna say I town read him, and I might be right to town read him, and he might be town, but he still has to case me.

that was a response to this ^^^^

Disagree. That is the best and most accurate answer based on where we've gotten to this point in the game. anything else would just be me making something up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well that was easier than I thought

Vengekill: Irrelephant

WOOT.

GG I WON.

If Irrelephant is killed by means other than lynch, I win.

i don't believe this is a real thing

i'm obviously kidding on that part.

I like to get people riled up.

Your last posts are completely moot and irrele

phant

vant.

[Flavor Leaf]

not really but ok

you're arguing about a fake win con troll post from a reaction test player. Yes, they are really.

[Flavor Leaf]

that had already been confirmed to just be a troll post.

[Flavor Leaf]

Awesome scum theatre. I'll get my concessions and be right back.

[Flavor Leaf]

oh good so we've established that you lied

and this means we should trust you saying that you 'basically win with town' because ...?

Yup. You can trust that I lie as town and still put winning above all else.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's not necessarily that I lie, it's just that I say things that aren't true in a fashion where they aren't even expected to be seen as 100% truth, however certain things are, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

i thought you weren't town here? :>

I bring you back to the post you responded to.

[Flavor Leaf]

oh good so we've established that you lied

and this means we should trust you saying that you 'basically win with town' because ...?

Yup. You can trust that I lie as town and still put winning above all else.

you also lie as scum so....

i don't really think this convo is going anywhere

Much less, tbh. I'm very genuine and honest when I'm scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm never scum with Smile here. Simple as that. You can do your own work on that and check out probabilities, but I don't bus unless I have a hardcore preplanned gambit and play walkthrough to win by. I will always try to protect my scum buddies before the needless bus.

I will react to a partner trying to bus me, yes, but Smile did no such thing, and really, I had no interaction with Smile, which is also indicative of NotScumFL.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is all hypothetical, because I'm not even sure that Smile flips scum here, but it's the poor analysis on Skitter's part which is the catalyst of my push here because Skitter is likely scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've been scum with Skitter and helped protect her for a couple days, including coaching through a fake claim. She was newer then.

And I didn't bus there until days after you were forced to claim. I helped her get out it. A new player.

I don't bus needlessly. She knows I would help a partner get out of it. This is likely ScumSkitter.

[Flavor Leaf]

She probably thinks I'm just trolling as town too, which is kind of what I've been pushing for. She's using it to weaken my stance.

[Flavor Leaf]

i also kind of thought you would put more stock into elephant's opinion of me in this game considering he's actually been scum with me before, and i believe he mentioned that.

i also don't know if i scumread FL anymore because i don't see the point in doing his best to annoy the players who would have to townread him for him to live.
but i don't trust 3Ps either. haha.
if Smile does flip scum i do think i would consider FL groupscum less likely, too.

i don't really trust other people's reads much unless i think they have a history of reading that person correctly; i don't think i knew that he was scum with you before (if he said it i missed it, i'll go back and check);

i really don't knwo what fl's motive is here but i don't think it's town-motivated

I'm 3rd party catching scum. I don't have to be town motivated. I just win with town.

Chara does have a history of reading me correctly, as does RCEnigma.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is all hypothetical, because I'm not even sure that Smile flips scum here, but it's the poor analysis on Skitter's part which is the catalyst of my push here because Skitter is likely scum.

I've been scum with Skitter and helped protect her for a couple days, including coaching through a fake claim. She was newer then.

And I didn't bus there until days after you were forced to claim. I helped her get out it. A new player.

I don't bus needlessly. She knows I would help a partner get out of it. This is likely ScumSkitter.

a) you started pushing i was scum before i said that

b) that's a fair point. (i think you reference that game a lot more than i do, but whatever; that's one of the games that i don't think i played too well in so i don't think about it too much and don't remember most of the details tbh)

I only reference it when it's relevant, as such, it's one of the last, if not the last, completed game I have with you.

I also recently won another scum game with Eddie Cane, and that game came up again because that made 2 games where Eddie and I beat ScumCowbells, which is another reason it came up recently on site.

[Flavor Leaf]

Me pushing people as scum has ended in strong T/T pushes in the past as well, so there's no downside to pushing deep where I think scum could be, especially early game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Chara does have a history of reading me correctly, as does RCEnigma.

can you remind me of games where i did? the last one i remember scumreading your slot until you were lynched. you flipped town.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the game you were Role Cop, and accurately read me, so I had to kill you.

I just often remember hearing you say "this is probably town FL" but I guess you did say that to the scum game I lost earlier this year, but I can't remember if you actually town read there.

I don't remember flipping town when you scum read me.

I can look a bit later.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also recently won another scum game with Eddie Cane, and that game came up again because that made 2 games where Eddie and I beat ScumCowbells, which is another reason it came up recently on site.

i love the completely irrelevant mentions of your past wins sprinkled throughout your ISO.

Of course. You gotta take pride in your play and wins. It's how you know I'm always going to be caring about my wincon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, Insomnia can vouch for me saving my partners for as long as I can. I forgot he was in this game with me. I feel he can probably read me pretty well too.

Reading me is also different from lynching me. Even if RCE would successfully scum read me, I don't think that would matter too much.

SS can read me really well, but he has a hard time lynching me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I say all these connections with people in this fashion so people can see what type of players can read me, and former situations that I have gotten in, which opens up on the type of player that I am, allowing people to read me more accurately. I like when people bring this kind of stuff up about themselves too.

[Flavor Leaf]

it was a game where you sort of flaked and your hydra partner was the only one posting by the end, so i'm not surprised you don't remember.
and in the role cop game, i feel like i only became so sure you were scum because you had already made your move and all but sealed your win, and i recognized that. but too late to do anything about it after you had screwed me over.
it did make me paranoid it would happen again in every subsequent game, though.

all i can say right now is i think you're less likely to be scum than when i started today, but my multiple bad experiences with both 3p claims and the "lying town" type of players would make it pretty hard for me to work with you from this point onwards without something changing.

Oh, starcraft 2.

Yeah, I didn't read like a single page of that game.

My posts generally speak for themself once I start casing people, though, so it doesn't matter too much. You can just pull from my cases if you like them to come to your own conclusions. Accomplishes the same goal.