newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[UrVeggieM8]

VOTE: : faüstiv

Hey all
@ Draynth I take it the meal was pretty memorable if it influences your vote!

[UrVeggieM8]

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "that seems a bit lhf-ish. Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

[UrVeggieM8]

VOTE: faustiv

Sorry, reposting because I voted the incorrect way before!

[UrVeggieM8]

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

I mean, from what I've seen, RVS bandwagoning is fairly common on this site.
So I personally wouldn't consider it scummy, it's just a site meta thing.

Okay sure. But voting for veggie and not for anyone else is still a bit suspicious. I mean why bandwagon?

Why not bandwagon? You often get some good information from it and it progesses the game
Why do you find it inherently suspicious?

Not speaking for Airan here, but just wanted to put my .02 in. Bandwagoning isn't bad and it kick-started the game in this case! But I think that it can be inherently suspicious depending on the order that people decide to jump on the bandwagon. Spam put the second vote in, which (to me) makes them more suspicious than Draynth putting the first vote in. Ofc it's still not a strong indication of Spam being scum though. Just wanted to say that order matters.

[UrVeggieM8]

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "

that seems a bit lhf-ish.

Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

@bolded: Hm, in what way?
How would you define the term LHF?

LHF because that the comment Spam made is one that vegos tend to hear a lot as a provocation. I'm not entirely sure if Spam would have commented the way they did if it wasn't following the previous comment from Draynth "I just ate a vegetarian meal". I feel that Spam may have used the previous comment as context for their reply. Hope I explained that in a way that makes sense?

Ofc though, whether someone is vego or not is completely irrelevant here so nothing was taken seriously and no feelings were trampled on I do understand that their comment was most likely made for the purpose of gathering information, irrespective of what their actual opinion on vegetables is! LOL

[UrVeggieM8]

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "

that seems a bit lhf-ish.

Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

@bolded: Hm, in what way?
How would you define the term LHF?

LHF because that the comment Spam made is one that vegos tend to hear a lot as a provocation. I'm not entirely sure if Spam would have commented the way they did if it wasn't following the previous comment from Draynth "I just ate a vegetarian meal". I feel that Spam may have used the previous comment as context for their reply. Hope I explained that in a way that makes sense?

Ofc though, whether someone is vego or not is completely irrelevant here so nothing was taken seriously and no feelings were trampled on I do understand that their comment was most likely made for the purpose of gathering information, irrespective of what their actual opinion on vegetables is! LOL

Tbh I don't really get what that has to do with low hanging fruit in the mafia sense but... okay...

Did some hunting around the webz and sounds like I've misunderstood the meaning of LHF in the mafia sense. Apologies for that! In this case I meant LHF in the sense that I felt Spam was using a common provocation to try and get information. Will be sure to use LHF in the mafia sense from now on!

[UrVeggieM8]

VOTE: faustiv

Sorry, reposting because I voted the incorrect way before!

Why are you voting me?

This might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker.

@faüstiv This. Would like to see some more discussion from you if possible. Commentary on the overall game or reads on people... it all helps.

[UrVeggieM8]

@Geyde Following that huge thread about hammering in RVS... out of interest, who read as the scummiest to you and why?

[UrVeggieM8]

Hey all, gonna be busy today so might not post for a while. Will review/respond when I get back

[UrVeggieM8]

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "that seems a bit lhf-ish. Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

I mean, from what I've seen, RVS bandwagoning is fairly common on this site.
So I personally wouldn't consider it scummy, it's just a site meta thing.

Okay sure. But voting for veggie and not for anyone else is still a bit suspicious. I mean why bandwagon?

Why not bandwagon? You often get some good information from it and it progesses the game
Why do you find it inherently suspicious?

Not speaking for Airan here, but just wanted to put my .02 in. Bandwagoning isn't bad and it kick-started the game in this case! But I think that it can be inherently suspicious depending on the order that people decide to jump on the bandwagon. Spam put the second vote in, which (to me) makes them more suspicious than Draynth putting the first vote in. Ofc it's still not a strong indication of Spam being scum though. Just wanted to say that order matters.

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "

that seems a bit lhf-ish.

Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

@bolded: Hm, in what way?
How would you define the term LHF?

LHF because that the comment Spam made is one that vegos tend to hear a lot as a provocation. I'm not entirely sure if Spam would have commented the way they did if it wasn't following the previous comment from Draynth "I just ate a vegetarian meal". I feel that Spam may have used the previous comment as context for their reply. Hope I explained that in a way that makes sense?

Ofc though, whether someone is vego or not is completely irrelevant here so nothing was taken seriously and no feelings were trampled on I do understand that their comment was most likely made for the purpose of gathering information, irrespective of what their actual opinion on vegetables is! LOL

These responses took way more words than they needed to get the point across.
Maybe it's because they're trying to get across their thoughts to newbies who may not have played before, but a lot of what they are saying doesn't amount to anything.

Since this is over the internet and people don't have things like tone of voice and facial cues to go off of, I'm trying to ensure maximum clarity. YMMV on whether less words should be used. Also, do you think explaining reasons behind reads doesn't amount to anything? I thought justifying a read on someone would be pretty important?

[UrVeggieM8]

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "that seems a bit lhf-ish. Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

What exactly do you mean by suspicious?

Think I used the wrong word there, apologies. I meant that what Spam did was something that raised question marks for me.

[UrVeggieM8]

Hmm. I’m not sure I’d put Spangled down as a hard “scumread” at the moment. I agree that they rambled but...so did I. I am leaning towards them trying to help vs. being scummy.

I’d lean towards a scum read of faustiv right now. Not sure how big of a fan I am of the vague questioning and responses. Is this because they don’t want to answer or are they trying not to reveal info?

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

Yes. Keeping my vote for faüstiv atm largely because of the lack of information coming from them. That, and because the only questions they've asked so far are either about why they're under suspicion or why they're being voted.

[UrVeggieM8]

Sharing some reads I've had so far.

Airan - seems more town than scum for me at this point. Posting about bandwagoning as early as they did doesn’t seem like a scum thing to do, purely because I feel it might have drawn more attention than scum might have wanted. Could be wrong though.

Draynth - Has asked questions that could be indicative of other town or scum. I feel that putting a second vote on faüstiv without a justification (102) is the first scum-play that’s come from them.

Spam - Tbh, I find their style of play to be provocative. Examples: Bandwagoning (7) and putting a vote out there that’s not rvs (52). For this reason, atm I read them as more likely to be town than scum. They’ve gone quiet as of late though? @Spam, do you have any opinions on the game thus far?

Faustiv - Not enough info coming from them! Has only asked questions about why they’re under suspicion or being voted. Most likely scum-read for me atm.

No strong read on Spangled just yet but I even I thought the early townread on me (while appreciated) felt premature. Not entirely sure why that would make them more likely to be scum though?

[UrVeggieM8]

Just realised that I didn't justify why I thought Draynth putting a second vote on Faüstiv might be construed as a scum-play. I feel that the combination of there already being one vote for Faüstiv and the rising suspicion of them (Examples: 98, 103, 106) may have been incentive for a scum-aligned player to put a vote in.

I'm not very confident in this though, because right now I get a scummier read on faüstiv more than I do for Draynth. Obviously scum voting for scum wouldn't make sense! So this situation described above would (probably!) only happen if faüstiv was town.

Any thoughts on this or have I just confused myself?

[UrVeggieM8]

Fair enough, next question to everybody is their thoughts on 123.

[UrVeggieM8]

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Apologies if this sounds like a rehash of an earlier post directed at you.
Not putting a vote out for faüstiv seems contradictory to what you're saying about them being your main scum read. I do understand that you said you're wary of hammering someone who actually might be town but if faüstiv is your main scum read right now, then... huh???
If you had to put percentages on faüstiv (example: 60% scum and 40% town), what would they be?

[UrVeggieM8]

Sharing some reads I've had so far.

Airan - seems more town than scum for me at this point. Posting about bandwagoning as early as they did doesn’t seem like a scum thing to do, purely because I feel it might have drawn more attention than scum might have wanted. Could be wrong though.

Draynth - Has asked questions that could be indicative of other town or scum. I feel that putting a second vote on faüstiv without a justification (102) is the first scum-play that’s come from them.

Spam - Tbh, I find their style of play to be provocative. Examples: Bandwagoning (7) and putting a vote out there that’s not rvs (52). For this reason, atm I read them as more likely to be town than scum. They’ve gone quiet as of late though? @Spam, do you have any opinions on the game thus far?

Faustiv - Not enough info coming from them! Has only asked questions about why they’re under suspicion or being voted. Most likely scum-read for me atm.

No strong read on Spangled just yet but I even I thought the early townread on me (while appreciated) felt premature. Not entirely sure why that would make them more likely to be scum though?

Updating this after reviewing the thread for a little bit.

Jamelia - I have rising suspicions because of the non-committal type posts they've been making regarding voting faüstiv. Both Draynth and Spangled have asked them "why not vote?" already. I am aware that Jamelia's response was that they wanted to analyse faüstiv's responses but I feel as though faüstiv has had ample time to give responses and we haven't seen many substantial ones so far. I'm surprised that Geyde has not said anything about this, given that they talk about applying info in a solving sense or trying to push the game further with questions.

@Geyde

What are your thoughts on faüstiv? I'm going to ask the same question that I asked Jamelia... based on the content that faüstiv has put out so far, if you had to put a percentage on them (example: 60% scum 40% town), what would it be?

[UrVeggieM8]

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "that seems a bit lhf-ish. Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

I mean, from what I've seen, RVS bandwagoning is fairly common on this site.
So I personally wouldn't consider it scummy, it's just a site meta thing.

Okay sure. But voting for veggie and not for anyone else is still a bit suspicious. I mean why bandwagon?

Why not bandwagon? You often get some good information from it and it progesses the game
Why do you find it inherently suspicious?

Not speaking for Airan here, but just wanted to put my .02 in. Bandwagoning isn't bad and it kick-started the game in this case! But I think that it can be inherently suspicious depending on the order that people decide to jump on the bandwagon. Spam put the second vote in, which (to me) makes them more suspicious than Draynth putting the first vote in. Ofc it's still not a strong indication of Spam being scum though. Just wanted to say that order matters.

Thanks for your insight Airan!

As the person receiving Spam's vote, when I first read their post my gut reaction was "

that seems a bit lhf-ish.

Maybe they're doing that to try and get information out of everyone"... which is not necessarily a scum move. To me personally, Spam doesn't quite read as scummy... just suspicious.

Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks!

@bolded: Hm, in what way?
How would you define the term LHF?

LHF because that the comment Spam made is one that vegos tend to hear a lot as a provocation. I'm not entirely sure if Spam would have commented the way they did if it wasn't following the previous comment from Draynth "I just ate a vegetarian meal". I feel that Spam may have used the previous comment as context for their reply. Hope I explained that in a way that makes sense?

Ofc though, whether someone is vego or not is completely irrelevant here so nothing was taken seriously and no feelings were trampled on I do understand that their comment was most likely made for the purpose of gathering information, irrespective of what their actual opinion on vegetables is! LOL

These responses took way more words than they needed to get the point across.
Maybe it's because they're trying to get across their thoughts to newbies who may not have played before, but a lot of what they are saying doesn't amount to anything.

Since this is over the internet and people don't have things like tone of voice and facial cues to go off of, I'm trying to ensure maximum clarity. YMMV on whether less words should be used. Also, do you think explaining reasons behind reads doesn't amount to anything? I thought justifying a read on someone would be pretty important?

If that's the question you asked in response, then you didn't get the point I was trying to make
If nobody explained their reason for their reads, then shitty progression wouldn't be a scumtell

I don't understand the intention behind asking that question either. Why ask a question with such an obvious answer?

Rhetorical question, that's why. All I'm trying to say is that I feel my posts did amount to something, because at least they involved justifying reasons for reads.

[UrVeggieM8]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Jamelia not rvs.

Why’s that?

tone is all wrong. regardless of whether I like what you're saaying, you're saying it in a way that sounds far more like newb!scum than newb!town.

to put it simply (and not quite accurately), you're using too many exclamation points. More precisely, it sounds like pocketing/ingratiating yourself with people. In my experience, this comes more from newb!scum wanting to sound genuine than from newb!town who are extremely excited.

Why’s that?

Why’s that?

tone is all wrong. regardless of whether I like what you're saaying, you're saying it in a way that sounds far more like newb!scum than newb!town.

Hmm. What have I said to make you think that?

to put it simply (and not quite accurately), you're using too many exclamation points. More precisely, it sounds like pocketing/ingratiating yourself with people. In my experience, this comes more from newb!scum wanting to sound genuine than from newb!town who are extremely excited.

Gotcha. Is that like a meta thing? To use too many exclamation points or something?

This interaction does not flow normally.
It's...lukewarm (?) for lack of a better term, with the initial reason for voting having very little basis whatsoever. Hell, if Spam wanted to vote someone for trying too hard to ingratiate themselves with other people, Veg would be the correct choice in this situation. Because of this, I think the vote and following interaction was forced considering the initial reason wasn't strong and the conversation ended abruptly.

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

I wouldn't discount the possibility that the interaction was staged either, but I'm not willing to go all in on that conclusion yet

Interesting take. I agree that Spam (with this reasoning) should be voting for Veg. Do you think they are doing this to try to lead a vote on me quickly? Or do you think they’re trying to create pressure?

Jam agreeing with Geyde here raises an eyebrow for me. Given that Geyde didn’t actually say why and how they thought I was trying to ingratiate myself with others, it feels like Jam was agreeing despite having little to go on. I read this as a scum-play because it feels similar to the way scum might jump on a wagon without giving some kind of justification. In contrast, I feel that the town-play here would have been to ask for examples of my ingratiating posts and then pick apart/agree/disagree from there.

[UrVeggieM8]

Spoiler:

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why do you feel this way? I also scum read them, but not enough to definitively vote.

It's early d1, and you're not voting anyone rn. you should be.

I was voting someone early D1 until we actually were getting votes that were related to game play and not RVS. In my last game, we hammered on a town way too early and didn’t even get to hear a defense from the person (who was town and I believed was town) to speak, and then D2 we hammered and lost an opportunity for good information. I just am being more careful this time and preventing that from happening.

At the time of me unvoting on Faustiv, they had 3 votes on them. I just brought it down to two; which is still pressure, in my opinion.

Sharing some reads I've had so far.

Airan - seems more town than scum for me at this point. Posting about bandwagoning as early as they did doesn’t seem like a scum thing to do, purely because I feel it might have drawn more attention than scum might have wanted. Could be wrong though.

Draynth - Has asked questions that could be indicative of other town or scum. I feel that putting a second vote on faüstiv without a justification (102) is the first scum-play that’s come from them.

Spam - Tbh, I find their style of play to be provocative. Examples: Bandwagoning (7) and putting a vote out there that’s not rvs (52). For this reason, atm I read them as more likely to be town than scum. They’ve gone quiet as of late though? @Spam, do you have any opinions on the game thus far?

Faustiv - Not enough info coming from them! Has only asked questions about why they’re under suspicion or being voted. Most likely scum-read for me atm.

No strong read on Spangled just yet but I even I thought the early townread on me (while appreciated) felt premature. Not entirely sure why that would make them more likely to be scum though?

Updating this after reviewing the thread for a little bit.

Jamelia - I have rising suspicions because of the non-committal type posts they've been making regarding voting faüstiv. Both Draynth and Spangled have asked them "why not vote?" already. I am aware that Jamelia's response was that they wanted to analyse faüstiv's responses but I feel as though faüstiv has had ample time to give responses and we haven't seen many substantial ones so far. I'm surprised that Geyde has not said anything about this, given that they talk about applying info in a solving sense or trying to push the game further with questions.

@Geyde

What are your thoughts on faüstiv? I'm going to ask the same question that I asked Jamelia... based on the content that faüstiv has put out so far, if you had to put a percentage on them (example: 60% scum 40% town), what would it be?

I haven't read into them since I don't think the slot will be easily resolved outside of reading into their votes, of which I haven't seen in substantial amount

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Apologies if this sounds like a rehash of an earlier post directed at you.
Not putting a vote out for faüstiv seems contradictory to what you're saying about them being your main scum read. I do understand that you said you're wary of hammering someone who actually might be town but if faüstiv is your main scum read right now, then... huh???
If you had to put percentages on faüstiv (example: 60% scum and 40% town), what would they be?

My reasoning for NOT voting for them wasn’t because I don’t think they’re scum, but because they haven’t responded to any of the criticism of their posts. They’ve avoided the question. I’d like to hear their response before I give a vote. I like to be definitive with my vote compared to just constantly unvoting/voting. I understand that it creates pressure but I don’t find that as effective as learning as much information as possible before voting.

Right now I’d put Faustiv at 70% scum, 30% town. 30 if they are just waiting to see if other people think they’re scum too, and 70 because I think they’re just trying to have the attention shift on others.

—-

As for Spam, although I do think that they have tunnel vision on me, I don’t believe their questioning and analysis is necessarily scummy. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they’re at least analyzing a lot of the game and have set their sets on one specific thing. I think that Spam would help us more if he focused on others just as much as he focused on me, but I digress.

I've gathered from these posts that Geyde and Jam are both reluctant to put a vote on faüstiv because they’re waiting for an opportunity to analyse a response/vote. Judging by the way that faüstiv has posted over the last 7 pages (mainly asking why they’re under suspicion with a one-sentence read on Spangled thrown in), I don’t think this is likely to happen anytime soon!
I am wondering if this might be because Geyde and Jam are a scum-team and would like to keep a player like faüstiv alive for a few more rounds as they’d be an easy mislynch for town?

While following that line I've thought, UNVOTE: faüstiv for now.

[UrVeggieM8]

Spoiler:

@Geyde Following that huge thread about hammering in RVS... out of interest, who read as the scummiest to you and why?

Giving an early townread to Veggie, I think; 66 is the best question asked so far.

I do find it funny that no one has, so far, asked what prompted my giving a townread to Veggie based on 66, but I’ll expound on it here.
Simply put, I think it shows a willingness to understand where Geyde was coming from, and a desire to, despite what Geyde said, engage with and attempt to apply it in a solving sense. Their tone, also — I don’t know, but I feel a strange kind of mindmeld; a gut-townread — 66 is the kind of question

I

like to ask.

I tend not to feel this kind of instinctive gutread very often, and it hasn’t been wrong yet, so I’m trusting it this time. Certainly it’s not so strong as usual, but...

My wording in my post may have been strange, however — an early townread could have been better phrased as a townlean, perhaps, but still.

@Geyde
When quoting large stretches of posts, please use a spoiler= tag; it makes the thread far less cluttered.
Uh... as to Spam... I don’t really see what you’re saying there. I agree that the additional reason for voting was slightly reachy, but I can still see it coming from town, and I think that they were trying to make the read concise; I get the feeling that there was more behind it. I also did not see the interaction as forced, at least not from Spam’s side. Could you tell me if there were any

particular

bits about the interaction that felt forced?

His reason for voting was contradictory since other players at that time exhibited the same behaviors, but he chose to focus on Jam (notably Veg [?] to my memory). That's why his push is forced in my mind.

As for your feeling about more being behind the read, I would disagree.
What I think what happened was he thought he had a very strong point against Jam in order to start a push, but after posting he doesn't have anything to add on besides restating his conclusion when prompted. Additionally, if he had more to add, then why has he never revisited his push?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s had much opportunity to revisit it? It’s page 7.

And I think Jam and Veg (what a nice pair of short-hand names) have actually had very different tones, personally — I don’t think that Veg’s entrance and follow-up posts were similar to Jam. I haven’t reread that bit, though, so feel free to prove me wrong on that count.

I've counted three defences from Spangled toward me right now and thought I would post this so that opinions can be formed. This is what I thought ingratiating with another player might look like, given that all these statements appear to be based on Spangled's opinion (as opposed to them being based on my post history or contradictory statements I've made). I get the feeling there might be players who have noticed this pattern already and think that Spangled's reasons for defending me are shaky at best.

[UrVeggieM8]

Some commentary that I wanted to share:

His two non RVS votes were on wagons which were/are gaining momentum. I don't think either vote is genuine. I also believe that a lot of his analysis is made up and something not coming from a member of town. I don't think town would be so confident in their analysis so early on in the game.

Did a brief ISO-dive on Geyde after seeing this post. Agree with faüstiv here that Geyde does come across as confident and definitive in a lot of their posts, but disagree that they should be scum-read because of it. The reason I think this is related to Geyde's recent vote for Spam. Bringing Spam's vote count to 2 seems more like town-play to me given that the only previous vote for Spam occurred during the RVS (on page 1 of the thread). It's not as if Geyde is trying to jump on a bandwagon, purely because of the length of time in between Spam's vote count increasing.

Spoiler:

@Geyde Following that huge thread about hammering in RVS... out of interest, who read as the scummiest to you and why?

Giving an early townread to Veggie, I think; 66 is the best question asked so far.

I do find it funny that no one has, so far, asked what prompted my giving a townread to Veggie based on 66, but I’ll expound on it here.
Simply put, I think it shows a willingness to understand where Geyde was coming from, and a desire to, despite what Geyde said, engage with and attempt to apply it in a solving sense. Their tone, also — I don’t know, but I feel a strange kind of mindmeld; a gut-townread — 66 is the kind of question

I

like to ask.

I tend not to feel this kind of instinctive gutread very often, and it hasn’t been wrong yet, so I’m trusting it this time. Certainly it’s not so strong as usual, but...

My wording in my post may have been strange, however — an early townread could have been better phrased as a townlean, perhaps, but still.

@Geyde
When quoting large stretches of posts, please use a spoiler= tag; it makes the thread far less cluttered.
Uh... as to Spam... I don’t really see what you’re saying there. I agree that the additional reason for voting was slightly reachy, but I can still see it coming from town, and I think that they were trying to make the read concise; I get the feeling that there was more behind it. I also did not see the interaction as forced, at least not from Spam’s side. Could you tell me if there were any

particular

bits about the interaction that felt forced?

His reason for voting was contradictory since other players at that time exhibited the same behaviors, but he chose to focus on Jam (notably Veg [?] to my memory). That's why his push is forced in my mind.

As for your feeling about more being behind the read, I would disagree.
What I think what happened was he thought he had a very strong point against Jam in order to start a push, but after posting he doesn't have anything to add on besides restating his conclusion when prompted. Additionally, if he had more to add, then why has he never revisited his push?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s had much opportunity to revisit it? It’s page 7.

And I think Jam and Veg (what a nice pair of short-hand names) have actually had very different tones, personally — I don’t think that Veg’s entrance and follow-up posts were similar to Jam. I haven’t reread that bit, though, so feel free to prove me wrong on that count.

I've counted three defences from Spangled toward me right now and thought I would post this so that opinions can be formed. This is what I thought ingratiating with another player might look like, given that all these statements appear to be based on Spangled's opinion (as opposed to them being based on my post history or contradictory statements I've made). I get the feeling there might be players who have noticed this pattern already and think that Spangled's reasons for defending me are shaky at best.

I thought it was bizarre for the reasons you posted. However, I think that if Spangled was trying to intigrate, wouldn’t they have town reads on more people, not just you?

This is a good point. However I'm coming from the perspective that if Spangled was scum, they may hav been trying to pocket. Especially because around the time that they were doing it, there was a bit of suspicion on them floating around.

Spoiler:

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why do you feel this way? I also scum read them, but not enough to definitively vote.

It's early d1, and you're not voting anyone rn. you should be.

I was voting someone early D1 until we actually were getting votes that were related to game play and not RVS. In my last game, we hammered on a town way too early and didn’t even get to hear a defense from the person (who was town and I believed was town) to speak, and then D2 we hammered and lost an opportunity for good information. I just am being more careful this time and preventing that from happening.

At the time of me unvoting on Faustiv, they had 3 votes on them. I just brought it down to two; which is still pressure, in my opinion.

Sharing some reads I've had so far.

Airan - seems more town than scum for me at this point. Posting about bandwagoning as early as they did doesn’t seem like a scum thing to do, purely because I feel it might have drawn more attention than scum might have wanted. Could be wrong though.

Draynth - Has asked questions that could be indicative of other town or scum. I feel that putting a second vote on faüstiv without a justification (102) is the first scum-play that’s come from them.

Spam - Tbh, I find their style of play to be provocative. Examples: Bandwagoning (7) and putting a vote out there that’s not rvs (52). For this reason, atm I read them as more likely to be town than scum. They’ve gone quiet as of late though? @Spam, do you have any opinions on the game thus far?

Faustiv - Not enough info coming from them! Has only asked questions about why they’re under suspicion or being voted. Most likely scum-read for me atm.

No strong read on Spangled just yet but I even I thought the early townread on me (while appreciated) felt premature. Not entirely sure why that would make them more likely to be scum though?

Updating this after reviewing the thread for a little bit.

Jamelia - I have rising suspicions because of the non-committal type posts they've been making regarding voting faüstiv. Both Draynth and Spangled have asked them "why not vote?" already. I am aware that Jamelia's response was that they wanted to analyse faüstiv's responses but I feel as though faüstiv has had ample time to give responses and we haven't seen many substantial ones so far. I'm surprised that Geyde has not said anything about this, given that they talk about applying info in a solving sense or trying to push the game further with questions.

@Geyde

What are your thoughts on faüstiv? I'm going to ask the same question that I asked Jamelia... based on the content that faüstiv has put out so far, if you had to put a percentage on them (example: 60% scum 40% town), what would it be?

I haven't read into them since I don't think the slot will be easily resolved outside of reading into their votes, of which I haven't seen in substantial amount

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Apologies if this sounds like a rehash of an earlier post directed at you.
Not putting a vote out for faüstiv seems contradictory to what you're saying about them being your main scum read. I do understand that you said you're wary of hammering someone who actually might be town but if faüstiv is your main scum read right now, then... huh???
If you had to put percentages on faüstiv (example: 60% scum and 40% town), what would they be?

My reasoning for NOT voting for them wasn’t because I don’t think they’re scum, but because they haven’t responded to any of the criticism of their posts. They’ve avoided the question. I’d like to hear their response before I give a vote. I like to be definitive with my vote compared to just constantly unvoting/voting. I understand that it creates pressure but I don’t find that as effective as learning as much information as possible before voting.

Right now I’d put Faustiv at 70% scum, 30% town. 30 if they are just waiting to see if other people think they’re scum too, and 70 because I think they’re just trying to have the attention shift on others.

—-

As for Spam, although I do think that they have tunnel vision on me, I don’t believe their questioning and analysis is necessarily scummy. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they’re at least analyzing a lot of the game and have set their sets on one specific thing. I think that Spam would help us more if he focused on others just as much as he focused on me, but I digress.

I've gathered from these posts that Geyde and Jam are both reluctant to put a vote on faüstiv because they’re waiting for an opportunity to analyse a response/vote. Judging by the way that faüstiv has posted over the last 7 pages (mainly asking why they’re under suspicion with a one-sentence read on Spangled thrown in), I don’t think this is likely to happen anytime soon!
I am wondering if this might be because Geyde and Jam are a scum-team and would like to keep a player like faüstiv alive for a few more rounds as they’d be an easy mislynch for town?

While following that line I've thought, UNVOTE: faüstiv for now.

I do not think that Faustiv is readable at this point of the game, which is why I'm not trying to read them.

I would argue that lack of action is action in itself, so consider that there is at least some basis to read faüstiv on. Probably not enough to get a really comprehensive read though and I get the feeling that this might be what Geyde is aiming for.

I'd expect town that's being pushed to try to clarify the viewpoint they are being pushed for as much as possible.
Instead,

Spam supports posts that could support a push on Jam

, one of the only valid counterwagons at this point in the game.

His 'clarification' doesn't have any analysis to it whatsoever.

Why are Veg's posts so much more sincere?
I've quoted the ones in question and I don't see that from what they've posted in the past

Sure, recent Veg is really good.
But Past Veg left nothing to the imagination whatsoever in a crafted way. (38, 44, 46)

I think it's interesting how Spam voted non-RVS for Jam way back on page 3 and has not changed votes since. I definitely agree with the bolded parts, but it's not as if Spam's only trying to push Jam's wagon recently. Though there is suspicion for Jam floating around the thread as of late, the vote counts as off 189 are still quite different, L-2 for Spam vs L-4 for Jam.

[UrVeggieM8]

Hey all, busy today and tomorrow. Will catch up when I can.

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Was thinking along the lines that up until recently, Airan had been more interactive with the game and providing opinions/commentary (even if it was all filler). Between the two potential lynches, I thought that the less vague defence would've come from Airan. This post is past its deadline anyway, with Airan being replaced.

"Still think something's up" meant not willing to completely abandon faüstiv as a lynch target just yet. I posted my opinion on faüstiv in 121 and at this point in the game, my opinion largely hasn't changed. What I neglected to say in 121 is that I think that kind of play is scummy because it feels like faüstiv is withholding information and I believe a townie rarely has reason to withhold information (unless they're a special townie with an identity they want to preserve).

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Airan is more likely to be scum. Also prodge.

Well Veg seems to reckon that faüstiv is more likely scum than Airan, and seems only to be acquiescing because Airan will ‘provide more information’, seemingly regardless of flip... which seems strange to me, as I don’t see what more information Airan would provide — disregarding flipping scum, ‘cause that’s not an info-lynch, it’s a scumlynch (I hope).

This wasn't quite the intent behind the original post. I never said that I was acquiescing with lynching Airan, and the fact that I didn't vote them reflects that. The reason why I felt a stronger scum-reading for faüstiv than for Airan is related to the amount of information I could take from each post. faüstiv posted questions or small sentences whereas Airan posted small paragraphs or sentences with observations. I stand by my point in 256 that there aren't many reasons for town to withhold information. Upon reading Spangled's post about newb-scum behaviour, my original scum-reading of faüstiv didn't change at all but I started seeing more scum-plays in Airan's comments than I noticed previously... mainly that despite their posts usually being more specific than faüstiv's, the actual content was sparse. 24, 39, and 141 are good examples of what I mean.

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Was thinking along the lines that up until recently, Airan had been more interactive with the game and providing opinions/commentary (even if it was all filler). Between the two potential lynches, I thought that the less vague defence would've come from Airan. This post is past its deadline anyway, with Airan being replaced.

"Still think something's up" meant not willing to completely abandon faüstiv as a lynch target just yet. I posted my opinion on faüstiv in 121 and at this point in the game, my opinion largely hasn't changed. What I neglected to say in 121 is that I think that kind of play is scummy because it feels like faüstiv is withholding information and I believe a townie rarely has reason to withhold information (unless they're a special townie with an identity they want to preserve).

@Veg
What kind of information do you think faüstiv is withholding; what do you mean by that?

Posts 198, 229, 248 stand out to me because while an opinion is present, it's not followed up with additional helpful information (example: an explanation or justification that town players might like to consider or analyse). I personally don't feel as though a will to help town players understand their reasoning was present until faüstiv made post 249.

[UrVeggieM8]

I want to say DADV given that thread has been both completely warped and died since the push on Airan started. If Airan were to be scum, then why isn't there any pressure being put on CFDs?
NMSA had a particularly shitty progression in 221 completely shifting his mind despite not showing any drop in confidence in scum!Jam, but that hasn't been expanded upon beyond a token comment by Draynth. Even then, there hasn't been any movement in thread toward pushing that further.
This might be clouded by Airan's activity completely dropping off the map, but I think the wagon on Airan is entirely impure

What does DADV and CFDs stand for?

[UrVeggieM8]

Spoiler:

I want to say DADV given that thread has been both completely warped and died since the push on Airan started. If Airan were to be scum, then why isn't there any pressure being put on CFDs?
NMSA had a particularly shitty progression in 221 completely shifting his mind despite not showing any drop in confidence in scum!Jam, but that hasn't been expanded upon beyond a token comment by Draynth. Even then, there hasn't been any movement in thread toward pushing that further.
This might be clouded by Airan's activity completely dropping off the map, but I think the wagon on Airan is entirely impure

I am starting to worry about this vote as well. I think if Airan was here we would have a more clear indication of what to do. I think Spangled's analysis was good but I actually think it revealed more about Spam/Faustiv/Egix. All 3 were more than likely on a different wagon (Spam on Me, Faustiv on Geyde, Egix up in the air), and then saw Spangled's analysis and went on that.

More specifically, we have Spam/Faustiv going from VERY strong opinions about their scumreads to going on the Airan train, and this was when they were both the lead vote getters at the time.

I agree with what others have said, I believe at least ONE scum is among those 4 voters. If you had to ask me, my gut still tells me that my main scum read is Faustiv.

@Jamelia
So you think Airan isn’t scum?
What part of my analysis do you disagree?

Like I said before, I disagree with the context of your analysis, not the analysis itself. I think in a normal situation I think you would be right, but I always thought that Airan was being messy, but not scummy. I always prefered a faustiv vote to Airan's because at the beginning, I felt like Airan was more cooperative and willing to find scum with us rather than faustiv, who was combative and not really helpful.

Now that you posted (a very well-thought out) an anaylsis painting a target on him, the players I mentioned before don't have a reason to create a scum storyline since you already painted one. That is why I said I was fine with the Airan vote to begin with, even if I didn't agree. This isn't about ME being right or wrong, it's about us getting the right people out. And your analysis was better than anything I have posted/thought of so far. I shared my opinion but I can't disagree with the things you found.

Now that time has passed and we have seen people jump on the bandwagon, I am more or less thinking that your post exposed their willingness to drop their thinking and go on a path that is more clear and direct. If you are right and Airan is scum, then he can be lynched (which was what I was fine with before). But I still feel more comfortable lynching someone like Faustiv, who only became analytical when pushed as a target, and Spam who has had clear tunnel vision on me, only to switch after ONE post by you.

Jam, I

wish

I'd posted this comment! Specifically the last paragraph. It's something that I resonate with immensely.
Just the last part about Spam... I read your post to imply that having tunnel vision and switching targets after one post is scummy play. If that's correct, then I disagree because I could see that kind of play coming from a townie too.

Having said that though, from reading Spam's ISO there's one comment that reads as scummy to me. It's in 243 where Spam says Airan is more likely to be scum. But in 221, Spam says that they're sheeping Spangled until further notice. Spam's confidence about the likelihood of Airan being scum seems pretty high for someone who 1) was sheeping someone else's post (albeit post being excellent), and 2) hadn't made any previous posts indicating that they'd investigated faüstiv to some degree.

[UrVeggieM8]

@Egix

Just wanted to draw attention to 75 where you say your initial read on Airan is pretty similar to Spangled's current one except that you didn't feel as strongly about it. You then said in 217 that you're really starting to feel swayed now. What was it about Airan's posts that didn't sway you before?

[UrVeggieM8]

Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.

In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.

[UrVeggieM8]

what's scummy about it

It's a weird thought to have from an uninformed point of view

Jamellia is my strongest townread. Spam’s posts in that interaction seem to be coming from a similarly uninformed viewpoint.

Faüstiv posted this with good timing for me! The above reinforces what I said before about faüstiv trying to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam. If faüstiv and Spam are scum-buddies and communicating privately, they both likely came to the same conclusion that Jam wouldn't be a likely lynch for today. That's why I think faüstiv has said here that Jam is their strongest town read.

[UrVeggieM8]

They say that sometimes when someone reps in as town, you can almost know that they’re town almost immediately; I have felt this before and I’m (almost) feeling it now.
Which honestly conflicts with my gut-feelings on Airan, and this is a weird feeling — one gut-read with stuff backing it up vs another gut read with some stuff backing it up.

But I’m definitely erring on the side of town!eth0s, and this is, by and large, because of his read on Veg — he goes against the flow here, where there had been a narrative proposing scum!veg building prior to my Airan case, and it also agrees with my read on Veg in a way I can understand.
And I can see Airan as newbtown making those posts, and, honestly, I’ve come to realise that I’ve only seen Airan from the perspective of ‘this is newbscum and here’s why’, rather than thinking about whether or not newbtown could make those kinds of posts too. And newbtown... could, I think.
It annoys me, but I think this is probably town.
UNVOTE:

And the game thread really did slow straight down when the Airan-wagon started CFD’ing. Like maybe that’s not indicative of much because Airan wasn’t here, but I feel like scum was either on the wagon or waiting for a good excuse — further arguments for scum!Airan or a sucky defense from him, I imagine — to hop on.

I do kinda feel a bit buddied though dude. Why do I feature so much in your catchup?
And if we lynched faüstiv today and they flipped green, who would you think would be the scumteam then?

Y'all are posting too fast for me to keep up! Ethos has pretty much answered this already, but was about to ask Spangled how they feel about Spam atm and whether they think looking for potential scum-buddies for Spam would be a viable option.

[UrVeggieM8]

{nmsa,egix,faustiv} in that order.

one of {me,spangled,veg} gets shot tonight.

easy game

+1

[UrVeggieM8]

{nmsa,egix,faustiv} in that order.

one of {me,spangled,veg} gets shot tonight.

easy game

+1

what do you think about nmsa/egix scumpair

Hold up, reviewing their ISOs now. Will reply once I've finished.

[UrVeggieM8]

@Ethos

After reviewing Egix's and Spam's ISOs, agree with you that they haven't directly interacted, though there are some points from Egix where they indirectly refer to Spam. I've commented a bit further within the spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

I mean, from what I've seen, RVS bandwagoning is fairly common on this site.
So I personally wouldn't consider it scummy, it's just a site meta thing.

Not entirely sure if I could go so far to say that this is scum defending scum and it just so happens that RVS bandwagoning is common? If I had any arguments for Egix and Spam being a scum-team (apart from that they haven't directly interacted), this would literally be the only piece of evidence I could come up with and tbh

I'm

not even convinced by it. If there's something you (or anyone else) picked up that I haven't, I'm definitely all ears.

@Egix96 where's your head at in regards to the thread?
I don't see real solving from your posts

In my opinion, the game hasn't really yet progressed far enough for me to form any solid reads yet, but based on some ISO-reading:

Airan - They remind me a bit of how I was in my first-ever game (Newbie 1890), in that they seem... well, actually I'm not sure how to put it in words. Maybe it's because, like me, they started their first game with a scum rand, but I don't really feel strongly about that. I'm aware that Jamelia "love[d] that [they were] being 'paranoid'" but to me, 39 is a good example of what I'm talking about here.

Draynth - Not really seeing much in the way of alignment-indicative stuff from him yet. Most of his play so far has simply involved asking questions (also his 'quick tip' in 17) so I would consider him the de facto IC of this game (the Newbie game kind, when those were still a thing).

faustiv - I would like to see more from them first.

Geyde - I think that 62 is a +town observation, though it remains to be seen whether I will end up agreeing with it or not.

Jamelia - Probably not scum with Airan based on first sentence of 47. I can imagine the rest of that post being said from one scum to another, but not the first bit, I think that would just be way too corny
Individually though, not yet sure what to make of him.

NMSA - 56 feels a little bit reachy imo, but I guess that that can be at least partially justified by it being that early in the game. Nothing else from him pings me though.

Spangled - 61 - "...but

I don’t think I can call [Jamelia] scum over it.

I am not willing to put my vote there just yet, but

I will consider it.

" Seems non-committal and maybe self-contradictory?

Veggie -

I notice that, like Jamelia, they also end a lot of their sentences with exclamation marks - how has Spam not picked up on that?

But I digress.
66 I will admit is not a bad post, but I wouldn't say that it's "the best question asked so far" as Spangled put it... and Airan agreeing with that is... eh? But again I digress.

So with all that said,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Spangled

If Spam and Egix were a scum-team, I don't think Egix would have made the underlined comment. I believe it would draw too much unwanted attention to a scum partner.

@Airan, Faustiv, Egix

What do you 3 think of NotMySpamAccount?

My prior thoughts on him still apply, but with two additions:
a)

I find it selective that he applies the 'too many exclamation marks' tell to Jam, but not to Veggie

(ofc this is a small digression that I made in my thoughts on Veg, but I was going through the ISO of each player in alphabetical order so it was initially missed)
b) I find it disappointing that he has made only two posts since I made my wall, both of which are simply him giving advice to other players.

Egix makes a similar comment to the one in 75. Unless they're a pretty ballsy scum-team, I don't think scum would risk drawing unwanted attention twice.

[UrVeggieM8]

VOTE: NMSA

L-1

Based on the below post:

Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.

In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.

Which I concluded based off a combination of my own logic and this post:

Spoiler:

These will be kinda low effort compared to what they could be because I have been on site doing too much for too long today, I will elaborate on any given read if needed/requested or perhaps even without such if I feel it would be helpful shortly.

spangled(TR) - playing his town meta to a T, asking game progressing questions, genuinely doesn't want me to be scum because he knows what we are capable of together as town

veggie(TR) - a lot of the same reason as spangled but notably I mind melded with him more than anyone else on my catch up and is taking stances that would just be "putting himself out there" too much as a scum, IMO

jamelia(TL) - obviously I didn't originally TL him but through his interactions with faustiv and NMSA (my working idea of the scumteam) he has proven himself to have little partner equity with either of them, NMSA moreso than faustiv, I think, but regardless, I now understand that his limited voting is NAI or potentially town-indicative of his slot and therefore a lot of my basis for a scumcase on him has gone out the window.

geyde(null/town) - I have paranoia on this slot mostly for the stances he had on RVS, leaving RVS, and how it seemed like he was trying to do more than he should based on the state of the game (admittedly I didn't read his meta references and likely will not, but posting them without being prompted made me feel a bit weird in the first place). I don't think it was overly scummy but I'm always worried about opening play like that because I hate being rekt by scum that play smart and actively. There was also something I think spangled said about him in regards to setting up for a "gotcha" moment and that resonated with me. However I like most of his stances overall, decent mindmeld, and he is both thorough and critical of things such as wagon formation that I don't usually see coming from scum.

draynth(null/town) - hard for me to read this slot and it's mostly based on meta (the one game I played with him where we were both town) and most of his posts are actually kind of forgettable to me. In a way I think his play this game is pretty close to geyde's as far as their approach goes, but draynth has been not quite as active, although not to a fault. I had a really hard time reading him as town in our last game together, where he was town, but he has stepped up the effort in this game it seems like, making longer, more analytical posts which generally gives me townvibes but I am also slightly skeptical of since it doesn't match what little I know of his townplay.

egix(null) - not a whole lot to say about this slot, really. he got on my wagon at a somewhat opportunistic time, although kind of prompted to do so by Draynth. initially did not like spangled but then kinda sheeped his vote without adding much to it. Also somewhat shaded NMSA and stated disapproval towards him while keeping a vote on spangled. That's not super valid reasoning to scumread him given the context of his reads on each of those players but the potential distancing from NMSA in 75 pings me the wrong way. With that being an early readslist it doesn't really feel that valid to use as an argument. Overall I agree with the sentiment someone stated about him potentially "coasting" this game and would like to see some original thought from the slot other than just pointing out mechanical errors, making puns, and posting things that seem really fencesitty.

nmsa(SL) - not gonna lie most of my reasoning for scumreading this slot is based on what others have said and I have a hard time making original stances on scumreads without some interaction of my own but I agree with part of what geyde said about him as I believe I stated in my catch up, about the contradictory stances on Jam and Veg, although I do think that tone and context plays a role there potentially. he goes from voting Jamelia for reasons I originally agreed with, to kind of letting that dissolve while he sheeps spangled's vote on me at a somewhat opportunistic time. I do think that calling it a sheep in his own words is somewhat TSTBS but I don't fully feel that way and think that his 1v1 with jamelia felt kind of poor. Did not like that he called out jam for a misrep when I didn't see it that way, and had nothing productive to say when he was basically proven wrong on that accusation. There are other elements of his play I find somewhat TSTBS but I think that could be the angle that scum!him is going for and therefore I won't let it override my suspicions. also worth noting it appears he is kind of trying to coast by this game in a way that feels somewhat unnatural when compared to his early game play. btw where is the full case on jam?

faustiv(SR) - most of it is covered in my catch up. Not a whole lot to say about this slot because he doesn't have much content. But he shows up when he is scumread, spent almost the entire game so far providing little/no content aside from defending himself, and the only things that don't fall under that category were basically "x is not scum y is scum" with no reasoning given up until he also "sheeped" spangled (see my/draynth's thoughts on how he could be manipulating with purposefully screwing up vote tags), therefore still not providing reasoning but piggybacking off of Spangled's. I guess he elaborated a bit but he chose such an easy person to "analyse". Overall I think his play is quite indicative of newb!scum behavior moreso than newb!town and until he says something that seems like it's coming from a mindset of a townie then I will SR him.

Ngl, I feel a little nervous bringing Spam's wagon to L-1. My consolation right now is knowing that my decision is partially based around the analysis I did of them.

[UrVeggieM8]

Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.

In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.

eth0s has the three most lynchable players in his scumpool. Airan was playing a trademark scum game.

How are his intentions pure?

Never said that Eth0s's intentions were pure, but I do certainly agree with what they said based on the analysis I've done.

Re Airan playing as scum: compared to how you had been playing at that point v Airan, I wasn't convinced that Airan

was

playing a trademark scum game. What I said about not voting Airan in 261 is indicative of that.

[UrVeggieM8]

I also really like how faustiv disappears when I ask him to challenge anything I said or how I'm scum

I think if he wasn't faking the not knowing how to use vote tags thing then he is worried about being the one to put me to L-1. he backed off earlier when I was L-1 and now he hops back on when spangled (the person who he sheeped to vote my slot in the first place, mind you) backed off. So now he doesn't have to be the one to put me to L-1.

^the part in parenthesis is really funny btw

Are you

SURE

you'd prefer to lynch Spam over faüstiv?