mini 2140: partition (this is over)
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Good afternoon,
I've been thinking on how to approach this game, especially due to the peculiarities of the setup. My conclusion was that I would need some time to work better on my impressions and shape my conjecture on the possible combinations in the distribution of groups before actively engaging with the playerlist. Something that caught my attention, however, was the time when the topic was released, because according to post 2, there were two conditions for the game to be released:
*
Starting with 11/13 confirms.*
Mafia have a consensus about the d1 partition.Therefore, by the time the topic was released, there was obviously already a confirmation of at least 11 players, as well as a collective consensus on partitions by the mafia. Considering that the confirmations had a period of 48 hours between the 10th and the 12th of May to be made, it is more plausible, in my opinion, that the margin of 11 players had been reached before the mafia consensus, which indicates that the release of the topic probably occurred as a result of the mafia decision, which implies that possibly the three members should be online during this period and, consequently, commented at some point in the first two pages. Evidently, this is a premature speculation, but I would like to share this observation because I did not see any comments addressing this. I intend to give a more formed opinion about the groups as soon as I finish my analysis.
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Hum, I agree that they could have chosen not to post in the initial phase, but I still believe that the delay in releasing the topic is suggestive.In post 158, Morning Tweet wrote:This doesn't really take into account that schadd probably didn't open the thread at the exact moment scum came to a consensus. i'd actually be pretty surprised if he didIn post 153, clidd wrote:Good afternoon,
I've been thinking on how to approach this game, especially due to the peculiarities of the setup. My conclusion was that I would need some time to work better on my impressions and shape my conjecture on the possible combinations in the distribution of groups before actively engaging with the playerlist. Something that caught my attention, however, was the time when the topic was released, because according to post 2, there were two conditions for the game to be released:
*Starting with 11/13 confirms.
*Mafia have a consensus about the d1 partition.
Therefore, by the time the topic was released, there was obviously already a confirmation of at least 11 players, as well as a collective consensus on partitions by the mafia. Considering that the confirmations had a period of 48 hours between the 10th and the 12th of May to be made, it is more plausible, in my opinion, that the margin of 11 players had been reached before the mafia consensus, which indicates that the release of the topic probably occurred as a result of the mafia decision, which implies that possibly the three members should be online during this period and, consequently, commented at some point in the first two pages. Evidently, this is a premature speculation, but I would like to share this observation because I did not see any comments addressing this. I intend to give a more formed opinion about the groups as soon as I finish my analysis.
that and scum could choose not to post immediately after the thread opened
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In post 155, Ame wrote:Clidd and Albert for scum
I don't think you're evaluating the groups properly. Let me finish my analysis first and then we talk.In post 156, Ame wrote:We lynch there today
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In summary, I have these combinations in mind:
1- (1)(1)(1)
2- (2)(1)(0)
3- (2)(0)(1)
4- (0)(1)(2)
5- (0)(0)(3)
6- (3)(0)(0)
7- (1)(0)(2)
The first is less likely, as it proposes a slow game and would involve Scum!Albert involved, something that I find a little inconsistent considering that the appropriate form of distribution would be to place players who are vocally transparent in each of the groups, because at the same time as one scum is eliminated, players of relevance would also be, which also makes it evident that the composition {Clidd, Albert} is strongly antagonistic to this idea, which is why I imagine it to be unlikely. The second would also involve Scum!Albert, but it doesn't make a lot of sense because it would be better done with the addition of 1 ~ 2 players to group 2, something that would be more interesting in the sense of cost-benefit, especially because the group 3 does not seem to me to be a weak trio verbally, which would be characterized as a disadvantage for group 2 early in the game and would make this type of formation unfeasible. The third is plausible, considering that the camouflage of 2 members in the group with the largest number of players would be a safe move, while one of the members of group 3 would be instructed to push against the smaller group, being able to use both the pretext of Albert's existence, which is a slot with a shallow playstyle, as well as the numerical justification, considering that only 2 players will be lynched, therefore, the loss would be, theoretically, less than the lynch of group 1 ~ 3. The fourth would make sense only in the scenario where the two scums in group 3 were planning to deliver Scum!Albert via buss to gain town credibility early in the game, but the fact that they only put one more player in the group, instead of adding more players, reduce the damage done and imply a very early disadvantage for them, which might not be worth it in the long run, considering that there would eventually be speculation and suspicion about the centralization of votes in the group, which probably would not take long to lead to the inference that there was a bus in the middle of the wagon. The fifth would be possible in the scenario in which Scum!Dsj, Scum!Enomis and Scum!Mohab were able to embark on a risky gambit, but I believe that this would underestimate the cognitive capacity of group 1 and does not fit the profile of Scum!Dsj ( at least as far as I observed in our scum in common), where he would probably strongly suggest the change of composition due to the lack of security he would feel. The push, in this context, would also be group 2. The sixth seems more plausible to me than the fifth, considering that there are players like Scum!Hoctac and Scum!Ame who could build a narrative where groups 3 and 2 were the main lynchs , under the pretext that the numerical force of group 1 would make the materialization of a lynch unfeasible, and that it would be safer in the mathematical sense to choose groups 2 and 3. The seventh also makes sense, with the same push reasoning of compositions 3 and 5.
1- (1)(1)(1)
2- (2)(1)(0)
3- (2)(0)(1)
4- (0)(1)(2)
5- (0)(0)(3)
6- (3)(0)(0)
7- (1)(0)(2)
The first is less likely, as it proposes a slow game and would involve Scum!Albert involved, something that I find a little inconsistent considering that the appropriate form of distribution would be to place players who are vocally transparent in each of the groups, because at the same time as one scum is eliminated, players of relevance would also be, which also makes it evident that the composition {Clidd, Albert} is strongly antagonistic to this idea, which is why I imagine it to be unlikely. The second would also involve Scum!Albert, but it doesn't make a lot of sense because it would be better done with the addition of 1 ~ 2 players to group 2, something that would be more interesting in the sense of cost-benefit, especially because the group 3 does not seem to me to be a weak trio verbally, which would be characterized as a disadvantage for group 2 early in the game and would make this type of formation unfeasible. The third is plausible, considering that the camouflage of 2 members in the group with the largest number of players would be a safe move, while one of the members of group 3 would be instructed to push against the smaller group, being able to use both the pretext of Albert's existence, which is a slot with a shallow playstyle, as well as the numerical justification, considering that only 2 players will be lynched, therefore, the loss would be, theoretically, less than the lynch of group 1 ~ 3. The fourth would make sense only in the scenario where the two scums in group 3 were planning to deliver Scum!Albert via buss to gain town credibility early in the game, but the fact that they only put one more player in the group, instead of adding more players, reduce the damage done and imply a very early disadvantage for them, which might not be worth it in the long run, considering that there would eventually be speculation and suspicion about the centralization of votes in the group, which probably would not take long to lead to the inference that there was a bus in the middle of the wagon. The fifth would be possible in the scenario in which Scum!Dsj, Scum!Enomis and Scum!Mohab were able to embark on a risky gambit, but I believe that this would underestimate the cognitive capacity of group 1 and does not fit the profile of Scum!Dsj ( at least as far as I observed in our scum in common), where he would probably strongly suggest the change of composition due to the lack of security he would feel. The push, in this context, would also be group 2. The sixth seems more plausible to me than the fifth, considering that there are players like Scum!Hoctac and Scum!Ame who could build a narrative where groups 3 and 2 were the main lynchs , under the pretext that the numerical force of group 1 would make the materialization of a lynch unfeasible, and that it would be safer in the mathematical sense to choose groups 2 and 3. The seventh also makes sense, with the same push reasoning of compositions 3 and 5.
Conclusion:
compositions 3, 5, 6 and 7 make sense in my conception, considering that I can imagine the establishment of pushs on group 2 only because of the existence of Albert in it. That said, I am inclined to think that group 3 has expressive chances of having scum in its composition.- clidd
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I feel that your comments on posts 56, 57 and 138 were a more fluid progression. This change in posture did not seem to me to be within the investigative instance of before, which gives me the impression that it is a forced inference.In post 166, Mohab500 wrote:I know I said I had a hunch that group 3 had 2 scum in it, but I am actually having a hunchier hunch about group 2 being all scum, so let's vote group 2, shall we?
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I'm not sure if this is a valid motivation for a TL. At the moment, my TL on him is justified by the composition of the groups, which weigh more on the scenario of Town!Albert being *him* (if you look at his past games), than Scum!Albert deliberately pushing a group maliciously.In post 170, Hoctac wrote:Something about scum!Albert's plan being "enter hard pushing group 1 in hopes of lynching it" doesn't sit right about me. It feels full of agenda and scummy, so I'm leaning town on him.
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I still don't understand the reasoning of voting in your own group.In post 86, dsjstr wrote:I was also thinking of voting for group 3 tbh
Group 1 is too risky and if there is 1 member in group 2 then even without reads it would be a 50/50 we get them the next day.
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I see Mohab500 as a potential scum for what I mentioned on post 187 and for the strange transition between posts 149, 163 and 166, as he does not contextualize the reason for voting on group 2. Dsj has very strange/confused opinions on posts 49 and 51, which are aggravated on post 189. However, posts 178 and 191 demonstrate a volatility that is making me reflect. In the case of Enomis, I liked post 63 initially, where he performs some calculations to give substance to the opinion, however, the difficulty on presenting a reason for voting on post 90 seemed more like an attempt to highlight the problem than necessarily proposing a solution, considering that he makes the intention of voting explicit but does not execute it, which suggests a scummy slow-push without compromise.In post 190, Hoctac wrote:VOTE: Group 3
clidd, how do you individually read the three inside group 3?
So due to the combination of the impressions I had about the slots, added to the composition speculations I made on post 182, it is very likely that their group has scum.
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I think you're getting me wrong. I'm pushing the group that I believe has scum and I explained that. Albert does not make sense as a scum because the fact that he was placed in a small group does not seem strategically correct unless he is being used as a lynch-bait.In post 199, Morning Tweet wrote:Clidd you're coming across to me as someone who just wants to get group 3 lynched, rather than simply find scum and attack wherever they are
Although your 188 is an exception to this, where you say that Hoctac's reasoning for TLing ABR may be faulty. what do you think the odds are that Albert is scum?
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In the scenario (1) (1) (1), there would be a concern on the part of the mafia to distribute the "transparent" players (who are more easily townreads) among the three groups, so that regardless of the group that was lynched, the mafia would benefit, as these players would be lynched as well. Now, considering Scum!Albert in this situation, he would be acting in a scummy way to attract the lynch of his group, but that would only be beneficial if there were other relevant players in the same group, and the fact that only having both of us does not justify this risk. Especially since there are 4 players on the playerlist who have a slight paranoia about me. It seems to me much more a composition to attract a lynch in our group than a planning involving Scum!Albert.In post 203, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Can you rephrase this? I don't understand why there wouldn't be 1 scum in {you, Albert}In post 182, clidd wrote:The first is less likely, as it proposes a slow game and would involve Scum!Albert involved, something that I find a little inconsistent considering that the appropriate form of distribution would be to place players who are vocally transparent in each of the groups, because at the same time as one scum is eliminated, players of relevance would also be, which also makes it evident that the composition {Clidd, Albert} is strongly antagonistic to this idea, which is why I imagine it to be unlikely.
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I can understand your reasoning, but I believe that you are underestimating group 3. The pressure, in my opinion, would be in the lynch of group 2, considering the attempts to push during the day, and they only eased when I was able to participate more actively in the game, this clearly does not seem normal to me.In post 204, Morning Tweet wrote:If i were setting up these groups, it would seem really obvious to me as scum that Group #3 is going to receive the most lynch pressure.
It's got an extra player over group #2, so in theory, town would think they get higher chances of hitting scum in there. This is subjective, but they didn't put any of the players that i know are good at seeming towny in there (like Cat, Ame, clidd, Kanna). Someone in group 3 admitted they usually get scumread.
And now, indeed, the majority of the game seems to be having suspicions towards group #3. Even all three group #3 members seem to suspect group #3, lmao
i do lean town on Mohab and Enomis as well. Dsjr i dont have an explicit read on yet but i havent found him scummy per se
At this point, im feeling there's 2-3 scum in group one and 0-1 scum outside
I feel like group #2 has a better chance of hitting scum, and if there is no scum outside group #1, it limits our losses a bit as well
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Spoiler:
"
Scum in 1-1-1 would specifically want groups 1 > 3 > 2 to be lynched in that order.
"Why ?
"
Forget the specific partition for a second, I've noticed that you've basically explained away scum!Albert in every configuration and it doesn't make sense to me. For instance, in the case where the groups are 2-1-0, you say this configuration is too risky for scum in group 2 because group 3 players don't seem "weak verbally." The players in group 3 aren't any stronger/townier than the players in group 2. In fact, I would say the players in group 3 are probably the least known players in the list and have already been attracting a lot of scrutiny
."Do you consider Albert to be a verbally strong player ?
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Ok, thanks.In post 292, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Lynching group 1 would instantly win scum the game"Scum in 1-1-1 would specifically want groups 1 > 3 > 2 to be lynched in that order."
Why ?
I guess the difference between groups 2 and 3 aren'tthatbig, but group 3 would mean eliminating an extra townie compared to group 2.
I haven't played with him, but based on what I've seen so far, I think he's lynchbaity than the players in group 3 if that's what you mean. He has proposed that we lynch group 1 and at least two people are townreading him for it"Forget the specific partition for a second, I've noticed that you've basically explained away scum!Albert in every configuration and it doesn't make sense to me. For instance, in the case where the groups are 2-1-0, you say this configuration is too risky for scum in group 2 because group 3 players don't seem "weak verbally." The players in group 3 aren't any stronger/townier than the players in group 2. In fact, I would say the players in group 3 are probably the least known players in the list and have already been attracting a lot of scrutiny."
Do you consider Albert to be a verbally strong player ?
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I had a flash back from Hectic with a sheep on Doctor Drew's vote months ago.In post 289, Hoctac wrote:That's beautiful. Change "his tea" to "coffee" and it'd be perfect (clidd's a huge fan).In post 284, Morning Tweet wrote:clidd, the detectiveIn post 266, Hoctac wrote:a haiku about clidd
he takes a sip of his tea
it’s quite delicious
im not sure if the last line is cheating or not
VOTE: Group 2
You have earned my vote.
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Another proof.In post 298, Hoctac wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=81962In post 296, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Do you have any completed scumgames dsjstr?
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=82403
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This narrative has no cohesion, in my opinion. Scum!Clidd would have placed himself in the larger group, for valuing his life more expressively than all the others in the mafia. Group 2 was probably shaped to make my elimination from the game possible, while group 3 is a bottomless wifom pit.In post 300, Hoctac wrote:Hang on a minute, I just realised why there's probably 2 or 3 scum in group 1. Everyone (as far as I'm aware) in group 1 are good at looking like town and don't get lynched very often.
In group 3, Mohab has said he gets scumread a lot. Doro is usually scumread (even though he's obvtown), and enomis I have a feeling is made of the same cut, given how he's entered strangely with this whole demotivated thing. Should metacheck him.
clidd doesn't really get lynched however. And Albert is a wildcard I guess, but definitely wouldn't call him lynchbait. BUT, they are exactly the sort of players that would have the confidence to put themselves in a smaller group and pull that off as scum. In fact, I think scum have done their homework and have put them both in group 2 so that we fall into the trap of thinking that.
Conclusion: Either, there's 2 scum in G1 with 1 being in G2. Or they're all in G1.
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Hum.In post 303, Morning Tweet wrote:YES HOCTAC ILY!! (*≧∀≦*)
I am in total agreement with that assessment
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I found the progression in the last pages strange, especially after the post 299. I still have a higher scumread on group 3, but I believe scenario (3)(0)(0) is possible, although my reads point to either (2)(0)(1) or (1)(0)(2).In post 330, Albert B. Rampage wrote:all 3 scum are in group 1 and will fight tooth and nail to avoid instantly losing.
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Mohab, could you explain what you found scummy about my slot ? I feel like my eyes will end up ignoring your posts if I don’t understand how you’re interpreting group 2 individually.In post 428, Mohab500 wrote:
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Spoiler:
''
@Clidd, do you have a read on Albert outside of partition composition?
''If you want, I can go into details, but basically it is because of the way he is playing. The aggressiveness he showed in defending the idea that group 1 is strategically feasible to be lynched seems to me an ignorant behavior that I see coming from an interpersonal trait characteristic of his profile, where he is probably frustrated/irritated by the gamestate, which makes sense within the scenario in which Town!Albert demonstrates emotional levels that would not make much sense in the Scum!Albert mentality, where he would be aware that his reasoning is fraudulent. In other words, it is my interpretation of the slot to distinguish that his expressions/reactions are within a natural spectrum of conduct, very different from what I feel about Ame, for example (which is forced).
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In short: you do not understand my texts and the tone I am using seems to emphasize quantity instead of quality in your point of view, which seems to conveys the message in a confused/insubstantial way. Correct ?In post 594, Mohab500 wrote:Clidd, I don't really think I am getting much from what you write. I'll admit it could very well just be the meta, and I only looked at your meta briefly, but it seems a little excessive this game. 153 for example, this post means nothing and gets across nothing, you write way too much and 'analyze' way too much for it to have this much holes. 182 is another one where it seems deliberately made to be confusing, meaningless, full of contradictions or otherwise just full of random assumptions meant to mislead us. So yeah, another hunch.In post 452, clidd wrote:Mohab, could you explain what you found scummy about my slot ? I feel like my eyes will end up ignoring your posts if I don’t understand how you’re interpreting group 2 individually.In post 428, Mohab500 wrote:
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If so, you could have simply engaged with me on these posts. If you really read my meta, you should have seen that this type of FoS is generic in my slot in every game I play, and that the action normally taken by these players was to talk to me about exactly what they didn't understand, so that it can be clarified. The context of your scumread, however, was distant from me, which prevented a channel of communication between us.
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In post 617, Albert B. Rampage wrote:The fact that no one from group 2 or 3 has hammered group 1 pretty much confirms my theory of minimal scum in groups 2-3.
In post 618, Albert B. Rampage wrote:if there was 2 scum in groups 2-3, they hammer, they NK, its 2v2 town is endgamed.
In post 619, Albert B. Rampage wrote:this confirms 2 or 3 scum in group 1.
In post 620, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Theres at least 2 scum in Hoctac, Cat, MT, or Raya. They would never self-vote group 1.
I agree about the game state indicating 2 scums on group 1, but I highly doubt that they are 3 because of the reads that I have on group 3. It would be an insult to my analysis ability to say that group 3 is entirely town, so my solve at the moment is 2-0-1.In post 621, Albert B. Rampage wrote:From perspectives other than mine its possible im scum with enomis trying for autowin but I can confirm I'm town.
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Good reads ^In post 624, Raya36 wrote:This is a good point. Because of this I'll consider group 1 but first I need to actually find 2 or 3 people on it I actually think are scum and so far I'm mostly only seeing scummy players in group 3.In post 617, Albert B. Rampage wrote:The fact that no one from group 2 or 3 has hammered group 1 pretty much confirms my theory of minimal scum in groups 2-3.
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Did you have any evolution in your read about group 3 ?In post 626, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I think only clidd is confirmed to not be scum with 1 scum in group 1 by virtue of not hammering
I need to think
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I think I was the only one who considered this hypothesis so far.In post 653, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Unless anyone seriously think it’s 1-0-2?
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I'm not surprised, my reads already pointed out that you were town long before.In post 654, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I am now confirmed town or the only scum in groups 2 and 3 and I just put both my scumbuddies at L-1 twice
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In post 655, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I think there’s virtually no risk in lynching group 1 because I doubt scum made the partitions 1-0-2
I don’t think there’s value in discussing who scum might be in groups 2/3 in case there’s 2 scum in group 1 bc I have no idea who it is
If I am wrong and we won, I will be extremely surprised to have bad reads about group 3.In post 656, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Let's wait for consensus.
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Raya is one of the few players who is seeing what I'm seeing on group 3, I don't think she's scum. Her opinions are socially ''safe'', but I don't think this is AI in her case.In post 657, Morning Tweet wrote:I am still wondering though, who is the scum in Group #1?
my guess would be D&D and raya but it's pretty baseless.Spoiler:
As for outside of group #1, I'd guess clidd..? I still townlean on group #3 and think it's generally a bad move for scum to put people in there. Easily could just be wrong on group #3 and there is in fact 1 scum in there though
Kanna/Ame
or Daenerys/Ame
has more compatibility in my opinion. Ame started the game with a random push on group 2 and didn't explain her reads about me/Albert/Hoctac, and then went back saying that I would be obvtown without contextualizing why I would be scummy before. She is a much more competent player than that, and it's stupid that she doesn't find anyone on group 3 scummy. I find myself easily forgetting about Daenerys' slot, because nothing she said seemed ''striking'', and Kanna is more of a PoE issue. I have different levels of TL in the other players, including Hoctac. From my pov is:
Mohab>Enomis>Dsj
to scum out of group 1.- clidd
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In post 680, Ame wrote:Clidd, I felt your opening was agenda-y and that you and Hoc might have been partners. I hadn't answered you because I had mostly been skimming at that point. I didn't really read your posts in particular because they are not posts that I can just look through real fast. When catching up last night I finally got to reading your content and it's just obvious to me that you're town. Your tone/thoughts/pushes are all reminiscent of strawberry and Boon's game, and lack the nervousness from Conspiracy. Most substantially, I don't think scum Clidd comes at me the way you have and would rather avoid me since you seem to fancy and fear my ability to read you.
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The only scenario in which I see Town!Ame theorizing Scum!Hoctac and Scum!Clidd without elucidating the reasons for her scumread is in which she is testing our reaction to the push. The inconsistency is that you continued with this during the period when group 2 was being pushed (117), ignoring group 3 due to the lack of support from group 1 in the lynch, and only going back when the players started to reconsider the votes in the group 1(540), which fits the Scum!Ame scenario taking up opportunistic instances.
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I'm waiting for the hammer.In post 686, Morning Tweet wrote:Is there anyone here that still thinks there's two scum inside of group #3?
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Plus ^In post 484, Ame wrote:Even if we think there are 2+ scum in group 1, I think lynching it would be bad gameplay. I haven't tried to do that math, but I suspect that going that route has a poor EV relative to the others.
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You should have followed my reads.In post 704, Morning Tweet wrote:That's really surprising you went for that. plus group #3 fooled a lot of people including me reads-wise. nice job
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"Lynching group 1 was bad for scum, so clidd hopes to frame the remaining group 3 who were off-wagon to win the game on Day 2."
It makes no sense. Group 3 was the most scummy group among the three groups and I worked on the hypothesis that there would be at least one scum among them throughout the day. If Scum!Clidd really wanted to frame the group, it would make more sense to have kept Enomis alive, as there would be 3 push options. Off-wagon doesn't mean anything.
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?In post 737, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Yeah, exactly. Killing me leaves clidd as the only player from group 2, and group 3 who he has been scumreading all of day 1 can easily OMGUS / gang up on him.In post 736, Mohab500 wrote:Wouldn't that be too obvious/implicit?
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I think you played it wrong here. I had you as a strong TR, so there was a greater chance that you would convince me that Mohab / Dsj were scums than trying to force this narrative.In post 739, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Mohab and dsjstr are obviously fucking town, look at these posts. We know for a fact that there's only 1 scum in groups 2 and 3 combined, and both of these guys are trying to self-lynch lol.In post 86, dsjstr wrote:I was also thinking of voting for group 3 tbh
Group 1 is too risky and if there is 1 member in group 2 then even without reads it would be a 50/50 we get them the next day.
This game is solved.
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Ok, ok.In post 742, Albert B. Rampage wrote:You know group 1 wouldn't be lynched if it wasn't for me, right?
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Now this theater makes sense ^In post 632, Albert B. Rampage wrote:MT since we're married now let's do a quick exercise to confirm me as town.
Vote group 1. I'll make a post. Then unvote. I will prove I didn't hammer.
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"When we look at Raya's post, who is playing a more straightforward mafia game, she's trying to set up group 3 for a lynch as well:"
She was trying to frame me. If you pay attention, many of her interactions about my slot were "I think clidd is town", "that clidd post was towny", "I agree with clidd", etc. At no time did she develop her read about me to justify the exaggerated agreement with my inferences.The fact that Ame was also scum and tunneled early on my slot is strong sign of conspiracy against me.
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"He says it's ignorant to want to lynch group 1 but I'm town. What are the main differences between us?
A) I wanted to lynch group 1 from the start, which Raya and Ame didn't want.
B) I was on the final lynch of group 1, and clidd is not.
C) I wanted to avoid casting suspicion on clidd, so I could break the game in the final day and win. clidd wanted to avoid casting suspicion on me, so that group 3 gets lynched day 1, and that I would side with him on day 2."
A) I wanted to lynch group 1 from the start, which Raya and Ame didn't want.
B) I was on the final lynch of group 1, and clidd is not.
C) I wanted to avoid casting suspicion on clidd, so I could break the game in the final day and win. clidd wanted to avoid casting suspicion on me, so that group 3 gets lynched day 1, and that I would side with him on day 2."
A) I find it unusual how easy/fast you concluded that group 3 would be a lynch-bait and that scums should be in group 1. I don't see a hard-bus being so far from your scum-range.
B) It means nothing. It was quite predictable that group 1 would be lynched after the focus left group 2~3.
C) I don't see where Town!Albert would be on my side. If you can explain it to me, I would appreciate it.
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"We know that clidd was setting up group 3 as the day 2 lynch". "Especially considering that I expressed a scumread on Mohab yesterday and was scumhunting in group 3 without ever publicly suspecting clidd. Clidd has been mirroring this and suspecting Mohab since day 1 as well. All his actions make sense coming into today with his evaluation of me thus far."
My progression over group 3 has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose you are implying. In my view, group 3 had been structured for wifom purposes, precisely because of a possible member of the mafia who was naturally scummy and needed a group that "camouflaged" this to ensure that he was not lynched. Your interpretation of my scumread at Mohab is incompatible with our groups today, no way Scum!clidd could've won with this sequence.
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"Finally, I would say that clidd has been acting like he knows too much."
I don't see how a basic deduction (668) implies that "I know a lot". I'm sure I wasn't the only one to think about it.
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You aren't clear, dude. I would be much more inclined to cooperate if I didn't notice that your big post was made in a premeditated way to FoS me.In post 761, Albert B. Rampage wrote:OK I don't care about your defense because you're the logical lynch today to avoid insta-losing.
Let's suppose you are town, we get to d3 and it's me, dsj and mohab, you're me, who do you vote then?
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I won't self-vote too. You make the most sense for the way you interpreted all my progression in the game. It seems very biased to be a speculation of a town mentality. But, there are some things that I would like to check before voting.In post 763, Albert B. Rampage wrote:It's too dangerous to lynch mohab/dsjrt from my perspective. I won't self-vote. My options are extremely limited even if you are telling the truth.
You said I was obvious town before.
So if it's me, mohab, and dsjstr because we mislynch you/me, then what happens next? Who is the last scum and why?
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Why weren't you killed then ?In post 765, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Scum didn't want to lynch group 1, very clearly. All can see that. I MADE that happen. So yeah I'm a hell of a lot more clear than you. On the offchance you are town, I want to know who you think is scum between dsjstr and mohab. Take all the time need, I'm not voting you.
I will not change my mind and vote dsjstr/mohab today and doom this game if it's you.
If you're town, I'll let my ego take the hit and scumhunt on day 3 to find the winning solve.
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Then I would kill enomis (which I could push), leave you and me isolated in antagonistic slots and put two scumreads together in a group knowing that the logic would be to lynch the isolated slots to decrease the PoE and therefore would have to go 1v1 with you (someone who pushed group 1 from the start/my TR)? No, it doesn't make sense.
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"Rest assured that it's normal for me to see the matrix. I'm not trying to bamboozle you. Even if I were, lynching clidd does not end the game if he's town. Lynching dsjstr or Mohab will."
Theory: You are just pushing my slot to make a good impression on Dsj / Mohab, as you will lynch one of the two tomorrow and win the game because of hard-buss on D1 ^
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It doesn't. Scum!clidd would have placed himself in the group of two players to push one of the two isolated slots. And then try to play on lylo. This would be the logical path to victory. It didn't happen because I'm town and I can't control the groups.In post 773, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I think you expect me to push group 1 here with you and get them to turn on each other. They were willing to self vote yesterday. We were perfectly aligned day 1. It makes perfect sense.In post 771, clidd wrote:Then I would kill enomis (which I could push), leave you and me isolated in antagonistic slots and put two scumreads together in a group knowing that the logic would be to lynch the isolated slots to decrease the PoE and therefore would have to go 1v1 with you (someone who pushed group 1 from the start/my TR)? No, it doesn't make sense.
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Im not dumb.In post 777, Albert B. Rampage wrote:That's moronic if I'm scum here I use clidd and push group 1 to win today.
I am lazy. I don't try to make the longer.
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If you really were convinced of what you're talking about, you would have already voted for me. Just as I pointed out the opportunistic instance of Ame, I feel exactly the same thing exuding from you.In post 779, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I did my job as the best scumhunter on this site, it's up to you to sheep me or make the game longer or throw the game.
I'm finished here.
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Ok.In post 784, Mohab500 wrote:To be clear, I am not asking you to ignore Albert's push from how you read him, I am just saying to answer without regard for his push (Just like, don't try to defend yourself in the answer).
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It reminded me of this game:
Clidd feels like he's trying too hard to be honest.
Clidd - He simply feels like he's trying too hard. He calls Ico's interactions with Ame "well-intentioned". Despite this, he still puts Ico as a nullish read. Some of his reads simply don't make much sense. He townreads Hectic for playing a character, and scumreads Kanna and I for something related to Ame's RQS, and doesn't elaborate on it at all. His post 88 also feels like he made it hard to read on purpose.
I think I've explained my Clidd read well enough already. He's contradicting himself as well as shading others. He backs off too easily as well. When questioned he either dodges the question, or answers the question in a way where it seems like he answers the question but the answer doesn't actually have any real substance. Plus, his posts have a forced formal tone to them, and they seem hard to read on purpose.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=GoCan you like, speak in a non esoteric tone? I read this 3 times and didn't understand this and I'm surprised no one is calling you out
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Outside of Scum!Albert you're scum. You aren't my main fos anymore.In post 793, Mohab500 wrote:So you think I am the most likely scum, but at the same time, you vote Albert and consider that there's a 99% chance he's scum? I don't get the logic here.
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Same theater as D1 ^Albert B. Rampage wrote:Mohab vote group 3 with me.
We ask the mod to end the day due to being deadlocked 2-2.
Mod will flip a coin to see who gets lynched between me and clidd. That's the rules.
I'm happy to risk my life to lynch lying scum.
First he says to put group 1 in L-1 because he wouldn't hammer to prove that he's is "town" (even though he knew there were 2 scums there). Now it is "I will sacrifice myself". Please, stop.
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You are underestimating Dsj. All of your hard-buss and false illusory moralism of wanting to lynch scum is incompatible with what you established when you considered that after my flip occurred, lynching Mohab / Dsj would win the game. You are clearly planning to move to D3 anyway.In post 798, Albert B. Rampage wrote:If clid was town his townread of me doesn't dissipate like that.
Clidd just cares about survival. I don't care about survival. I win when all the scum die. I think djstr is a noob to this site that's why he's being so easily exploited by clidd-scum. Town doesn't need him to win.
It's 50-50 between me and clidd, if I get unlucky and die lynch clidd tomorrow and win.
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The game just ends with your lynch and you know that.In post 800, Albert B. Rampage wrote:It's game over, mohab votes you it's 2-2 and mod flips a coin to see who dies. Good game all, please consider who played the best in this game and nominate the player for a scummy award at the end of the game. I will read the dead thread comments, I appreciate your feedback!
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You know they're town because you're scum, dude.In post 803, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm 100% convinced dsjstr is town with posts like this.In post 455, dsjstr wrote:Being in a 1 v 3 might not be as good as it sounds. Who ever the mafia is will kill someone from group 2 because of all the lynchbait in group 3. They will probably divide the 3 into separate groups which will lead us to imploding in on ourselves. Even if the person from group 2 is town how likely is it that the right bait is lynched? We need to stop talking about lynching based on the setup and start solving. No reason to rush this.
UNVOTE:
Mohab is also 100% town.
It's game over and town wins no matter if I die or you die today clidd.
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You are just a mediocre megalomaniac who is adept at paralogism. 13 years of experience and you were unmasked by someone who started playing a few months ago.In post 807, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Your pathetic attempts at antagonizing me are due to your failure to recognize that I'm a master scumhunter with 13 years of experience and 200+ games under my belt. I eat noobscum like you for breakfast.
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It was exactly the same thing that I proposed with Albert>Clidd lynch. I have my own philosophy of avoiding mislynchs on my slot.In post 812, Mohab500 wrote:Clidd, you don't particularly mind if we lynch you then lynch Albert the next day, is that alright?
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Don't let him force a coinflip.In post 816, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Self-voting is against the spirit of mafia. Mohab, vote for his group and we will go to the mod's coinflip.
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Ok.In post 821, Albert B. Rampage wrote:He's afraid to die. He thinks he can manipulate you tomorrow. I have no fear of death because I'm with you.
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So far I've only seen you trying to demoralize Dsj.In post 827, Albert B. Rampage wrote:You're not just wrong you are triple wrong. The only scum is clidd. I don't know if this is your rookie game playing mafia but you are far out of your depth here.In post 825, dsjstr wrote:Clidd was scum in both of these games.I don't see this as scum!clidd I would rather lynch you before cliddIn post 813, Mohab500 wrote:Considering you're 100% confident he's scum, I feel like that it shouldn't matter if we lynch you first, then Albert. Right?
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Except your flip is going to be red.In post 830, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I don't make mistakes. If I lose the coin toss and flip town, you vote clidd. No room for discussion. I flip green, you vote clidd; town wins. As simple as that.
Don't fuck up.
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More theater ^In post 832, Albert B. Rampage wrote:no I'm not here to teach newbes how to scumhunt. You're looking for tips? Read the mafia guides I wrote 10 years ago. How many LYLO situations have you been in since you joined? This is an easy decision. Clidd chose you to be in group 3 and he chose you again to be in group 1, because he smelled weakness in you. He thinks you ain't shit. Clidd doesn't give a single fuck about you and is about to use you to win for his team. You want to go down getting backstabbed by scum, be my guest. You can learn about scumhunting the hard way, through loss and being blindsided.
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Your whole case was made in a premeditated way. It is very likely that you typed at night already aware of how the distribution of groups would be, especially who you would push. The fact that Ame insisted on the Scum!Clidd theory without ever arguing why she thought I was scum only intensifies the frame she was trying to apply. I did some research on past Ame games and found this:In post 843, Albert B. Rampage wrote:He sensed you are the weakest player in this game. The easiest one to confuse and tricked. And to be frank, I think he was STILL shocked that you took his side without hesitation. It's the only thing he has going for him because I dropped a bulletproof case that any of the dead players would instantly sheep and win the game for our team. We would be fucking celebrating an amazing win right now if it were anyone but you.In post 833, dsjstr wrote:How did clidd get me on his team?
Post 19
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=GoI always prefer to hard town read my teammates, especially when there are just two of us, for a few reasons:
(1) People are always paranoid that a person bussed, so the credit for bussing isn't worth the cost.
(2) Scum partners have a biased interpretation of their partner's behavior, so they are likely to notice and point out things that town players would likely have never spotted. Distancing is dangerous in this regard as it could lead scumreads by town players that otherwise would have never came to fruition.
(3) It's against expectations. I think most players expect distancing of some sort from scum partners.
Post 1263
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Goscum Ame does not change the lynch that was pretty much set to her partner
I don't bus. 1 because as I said I want the quickest route possible, and bussing just makes the game drawn out longer. I'd rather defend my partner and be implicated than betray them and have to play the game myself. 2 It never really works anyway, people are always paranoid that the person bussed. 3 the trade-off is not worth it, lynching scum means not lynching a townie and potential PR.
It wouldn't make sense to Scum!Ame to push Scum!Clidd according to the mentality she has in this alignment.
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Ok.In post 847, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Clidd; congrats on mindfucking new players to the site into voting for their own team. If you win, you earned it.
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Dude, stop.In post 845, Albert B. Rampage wrote:We're on the same team whether you realize it now, or after I flip green. We ride together, we win together. Clidd has tricked you from jump when we started day 2 and you voted me of your own free will. Take the evening to reflect on that, I have other shit to do than to babysit.In post 841, dsjstr wrote:So now you want me on your team?In post 839, Albert B. Rampage wrote:And one more thing: if it's LYLO with clidd flipping town, I'm voting for mohab with you. I will not vote against you because just as sure as you are oblivious right now for your lack of experience, you are also the most obvious town in the game. Congratulations on that part.In post 833, dsjstr wrote:How did clidd get me on his team?
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This is basically an invitation toIn post 839, Albert B. Rampage wrote:And one more thing: if it's LYLO with clidd flipping town, I'm voting for mohab with you. I will not vote against you because just as sure as you are oblivious right now for your lack of experience, you are also the most obvious town in the game. Congratulations on that part.In post 833, dsjstr wrote:How did clidd get me on his team?
''let's push Mohab on D3''
if he got me lynched.- clidd
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I will not go into the discussion of what is morally correct/incorrect, but as I said earlier, I fully support an Albert>Clidd, as I am convinced that he is scum with the development of the last pages. Scum!Clidd has no way of winning with that kind of mindset. Scum!Albert, however, has more chances on D3.
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Your entire ''career'' was just lost then.In post 856, Albert B. Rampage wrote:if clidd flips green, I'll vote mohab and djstr will vote me. Mohab can vote me and I'll have no choices. I bet my entire mafia career that clidd flips red.
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In post 857, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I spent half my life playing this game on this site and outside.
I might lose a game every so often, but what I care about is knowing that my skills are sharp enough to catch scum easily.
This is completely irrelevant. If you have an ounce of dignity, I recommend self-voting.
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You don't know anything about me. Your megalomaniacal illusion with your fictional skills only serves to emphasize the AtE you are trying to sell.In post 861, Albert B. Rampage wrote:if you're town clidd, djstr votes me tomorrow anyway and I'm not voting him as God is my witness. Mohab hammers me. There's no way out for me.
Let's see you put some skin in the game and see what happens
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Mohab will decide it.In post 859, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Prove it 1v1 me on the coin toss.
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The arrogance of trying to make others feel stupid to agree with you is scummy and immoral, but at least you recognized that.In post 866, Albert B. Rampage wrote:When you're as good as I am at scumhunting, you lose touch with how to tell people what they want to hear in the precise way they want to hear it.
Winning for this long, being right for such a long time, it makes you appear unsympathetic. I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone.
- clidd
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clidd
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8236
- Joined: January 18, 2020
- Location: Spain
This is not true, the behavior you show during the game not only serves to be measured as AI, but also determines what kind of character you have. What you are demonstrating now is a conduct that wants to convey the message ofIn post 869, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Seriously though, it's fun to be town and act the way you want, because you know that if you get mislynched, they will backwards rationalize that you were too scummy and had to be eliminated to advance the game anyway. So whether I act like a cartoon villain, your schoolyard bully, or play nice, the result is going to be the same. It doesn't increase my team's chance to win to pay compliments, and be nurturing, and talk logically for 20 pages so one or two players can break my heart and vote against me. I've lost too many times to go through the effort of that again!
Good luck catching clide guys. Rampage out.
'' you have to vote for the clidd because I'm really good at the game and you're bad ''
. That personal enrichment that you insist on emphasizing is not a towny element, but extremely AtE. From your perspective, if you are really town, the fact that this game is going o the lynch of both of us, regardless of the order, theoretically, it should be a town win in your pov. The only scenario in which this does not occur is TvT, which is practically impossible at this point in the game, at least for what we discussed. So I don't understand why you are acting like a victim.- clidd
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clidd
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- Posts: 8236
- Joined: January 18, 2020
- Location: Spain
Nice.In post 868, Albert B. Rampage wrote:You failed to see the sarcasm in my last post. Pathetic. I'm not actually sorry hahahahaha
- clidd
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clidd
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8236
- Joined: January 18, 2020
- Location: Spain
I find you very uncomfortable with the coinflip, even though you should know, theoretically, that your flip being town I am certainly lynched tomorrow.In post 892, Albert B. Rampage wrote:dsjstr its your choice if we lynch clidd now or if we go to coinflip in which case mohab has promised to vote for me tomorrow if clidd flips town. It's your decision, trust your gut and let's do this.
- clidd
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clidd
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8236
- Joined: January 18, 2020
- Location: Spain
Which is why he is choosing this path right now.In post 901, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Mod: I take back the coin flip for now
I think I can convince you to lynch clidd, I feel like you're halfway there. This is an easy decision.
- clidd
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clidd
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8236
- Joined: January 18, 2020
- Location: Spain
Mohab, 100%.In post 979, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm just curious, who did you think was scum before I accused you?In post 973, clidd wrote:To be honest, Scum!Clidd and Scum!Albert have no way of winning with the current scenario. I would not be surprised if I am wrong and our interaction was TvT.
- clidd
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clidd
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8236
- Joined: January 18, 2020
- Location: Spain
Thank you, don't worry. I see 70% of Mohab being scum and 30% of you being scum, especially after reading your posts on the last pages.In post 981, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Yeah I agree.In post 978, clidd wrote:Mohab makes more sense for the group's organizations and the way she theorized the group 3 "wifom". The current game state implies an intelligent scum, which is incompatible with the Dsj's scumgame.
Between me and mohab, what % do you think it's me vs mohab?
Also mad respect to your scum game, I wouldn't be able to tell if you were actually scum. I didn't see it as worth it for us risking voting the 2 man group and losing to you.