Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[HoldenGolden]

The shitposting life is hard

[HoldenGolden]

I see my Rose counterpart already voted.

Looking forward to this

-Ico

Rose's are red,
Violets are blue,
I cant rhyme,
And neither will you

VOTE: Night Three Rose's

Pedit: ah then you really shall die now

[HoldenGolden]

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: Holden The donkey knows what they did.

#rude

I'm totally not watching you day 2

[HoldenGolden]

How do I look?? Be honest.

Beautiful.

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

I CC, let's lynch this scum.

Haha that was a gambit son. You just got gambitted. That role doesnt even exist in this set up! Only a moron would claim it!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

[HoldenGolden]

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

Only a moron would claim it!

-D

Let's break down this post.

On surface level, this post is apperently attempting to to point out the logical conclusion that I, HoldenGolden, am calling myself a Moron. However, this post gets much deeper by using Emjoi Analysis (EA), where the real scummy intentions come alive. We all know that such a contradiction coming from a townie PoV would use either the (if you are a filthy casual) or (If you want a comedic option). Coupled with a lack of any other analysis besides EA, this is certainly a scummy attempt at discrediting my intelligence.

You not only get my Finger, but my own Arm of Suspicion

[HoldenGolden]

I'm very confused. It seems we have a claim and a counterclaim already? I think that means one of them is lying and we should lynch one.

Vote the admitted liar, I, on the other hand, would never admit to something as incriminating as pretending to be a PR not in the setup.

I want you to vote Holden if that wasn't clear.

Ah but by trying to defeat the evil you saw in my lying ways, you too lied to CC me. So which one of us is a real liar. The one who admitted to lying, or the one trying to cover up the lie he told?

[HoldenGolden]

Hoctac vote Tuxedo

[HoldenGolden]

imo what to do with someone that doesn't want to hammer depends on how they handle the situation. Someone that goes "no I'm townreading them and that's that" and shoves their fingers in their ears can be sent to the guillotine the next day because that reeks of scum wanting to avoid hammering a supersaint. I'd be substantially more willing to give leeway to someone that goes "I'm townreading this person for A B C reasons and I think the case against them doesn't fly for X Y Z reasons" and actually makes an effort to dissuade the lynch onto someone else they find scummier. (Assuming their argumentation isn't all bunk, of course.)

Too much word salad 2/10
VOTE: kilga

Why dont you like word salad?

It's quite the delicacy in the English Major world.

[HoldenGolden]

Hoctac vote Tuxedo

Compromise, we both vote Hoctac.

VOTE: Hoctac

Still not accepting your lying ways.

Who's your scum buddy Tuxedo?

[HoldenGolden]

-

---

-----

----



------

-------------

-----------------

Hoctac lock town according to EA

[HoldenGolden]

You Holden! Remember, you said 'we'll stage a joke fight right at the start to distance.' I'm so confused now.

Its rhetorical. You clearly arent reading the our PT then since I want to buddy Hoctac. Bad scum buddy!

[HoldenGolden]

lmao i'm sorry i'm still not getting it, what do you mean by "either no bomb or no supersaint"? there can be both in a game?

-D

pedit: good one but also why

also did a quick reskim of things and almost thought about voting holden but i think im 'holden' back on that one.

my ego says to keep my vote parked.

*long sigh* the lack of MSPaint saddens me. Nice legend though.

What made you want to vote me?

[HoldenGolden]

Basically each category of roles (Vig vs Non vig) has an independent 50% chance of being either option from my understanding

Pedit: Fair enough.

[HoldenGolden]

Would there be any strategy in having the town non-vigs only claim non-vig rather than bomb/SS for any claims made post Day 1?

Other than preventing confusion, I only really think of one situation that would promote a full claim for that subsection of town PRs

[HoldenGolden]

My vote on Holden stays. Most awkward guy so far.

Also awkward in what way?

Dont be shy. I'm apperently the socially awkward one.

[HoldenGolden]

this is an example situation where vig can self confirm themselves as a real vig, and thus can "claim" a kill for example if they are being lynched. (and this be clear). this is a niche case but its SOMETHING we can utilize if it happens, plus the vig in questiion would know they can aim to kill scum.

How does this confirm anything by having them shoot a SS (which we have to know exists) that scum would be forced to shoot or gungho on their lynch to avoid being placed in the hammer spot? How would you coordinate that without the risk of mafia simply expending their rb ability on the claimed vig?

I think the only way to "confirm" a claim like this would be post the vig shot, but nothing stops vigs stacking up on one target unless we come up with a system for it.

Also lol, mafia shooting the bomb

[HoldenGolden]

anyways I think

holden wifom'd

too much so i think i changed my mind about voting them VOTE: holden

How so? The mafia pt joke with Tuxedo?

Believe that is four votes on me BTW

[HoldenGolden]

Nope only 3 votes. All peachy

[HoldenGolden]

I know. I am asking how do you make a slot code vague enough to avoid mafia interference but focused enough to not only direct Vig shots, but also to different slots to maximize their effectiveness (and also allow the claimed vig shot to be more credible as a result of anti vig stacking)?

There's another way mafia can complicate things, but I rather not say it out loud since it may not be obvious to them.

[HoldenGolden]

I don't think that's important right now.

Then would you like to answer post 100 then?

[HoldenGolden]

Are you feeling pressured by all the votes on you, Holden? I could ask people to unvote if that's the case.

Nah I've grown accustom to my starpower pushing me into the lynch candidacy quite early.

[HoldenGolden]

anyways I think

holden wifom'd

too much so i think i changed my mind about voting them VOTE: holden

How so? The mafia pt joke with Tuxedo?

Believe that is four votes on me BTW

i do believe yes that is considered wifom.

Yes it is. You stated it is too much implying the manner in which I did it exceeds the daily threshold of town allowed wifom. So why does that push me more into coming from a mafia perspective rather than a townie jesting?

[HoldenGolden]

there's no "town allowed wifom". town doesn't need to wifom that they are scum because they are not scum and wouldn't have any wine. do you see where I'mgoing with this?

No I do not.

Without any games particularly on my mind, I am sure I can find a post in a completed game where a townie on day 1 claims mafia (Scum mason claim) or jokes about being scum. Which, given the fact we are talking about the Tuxedo interaction, would be categorize as WIFOM.

I have no issue with you claiming that it is possible WIFOM, but the "townies never WIFOM" is bs both from a day 1 joking standpoint and other non-applicable examples such as gambitting, PR protection, etc. So explain how my banter has been excessively WIFOM which is likely to come from a scum PoV.

[HoldenGolden]

u are quite hung up on that huh.

well maybe u should note that you also fakeclaimed a role(even if it doesn't exist)(which i consider wifom) as well.

and maybe also note i'm not calling for your lynch since you seem to be toeing the line of overreaction but rather see u as a good starting point for beginning the gamesolve.

Yes a scum mason claim basically.

Why are you not answering the question of how it is more likely to come from a scum PoV than a town PoV directly given my counterpoint of townies doing stuff like that on day 1? You just gave me another example and told me to stop overreacting (?). I know you aren't calling for my lynch, and I see you as the first person to actually try to explain a non-RVS vote that I think has issues with the logic in it. Why should I not then inquire about your logic further?

[HoldenGolden]

What's your read then also on Tuxedo given his participation with the WIFOM?

I'm confused overall because:
-> You said I "WIFOM'd too much" which means that there is some threshold that a town should be able to WIFOM in your eyes.
-> Then you say that town shouldn't WIFOM at all.
-> into saying to me "Have good faith in me, I am trying to move town out of RVS. You are overracting and hung up on a question."

Do you see why I am curious about my question now?

[HoldenGolden]

What's your read then also on Tuxedo given his participation with the WIFOM?

I'm confused overall because:
-> You said I "WIFOM'd too much" which means that there is some threshold that a town should be able to WIFOM in your eyes.
-> Then you say that town shouldn't WIFOM at all.
-> into saying to me "Have good faith in me, I am trying to move town out of RVS. You are overracting and hung up on a question."

Do you see why I am curious about my question now?

u are overanalyzing what was essentially a reaction test. its not that deep. learned that u are very defensive however, so noted.

And I am learning you aren't answering a simple question.

You can't just write it off as a reaction test since that vote was very clearly backed by more than your previous statement where you told me you like to vote people for reactions. The WIFOM is an actual read. So answer the question.

[HoldenGolden]

Like even if I take that at face value and agree its a reaction test, your refusal to even discuss back with answering the question contradicts it. If it is a reaction test, why aren't you taking me up on the offer to debate the test and gain more information out of the test instead of cutting it off early and telling me to not engage inquisitively back to you?

[HoldenGolden]

Do I look pretty?

Why is there a third hand touching your breast?

[HoldenGolden]

It's my foot.

Your foot is in a hand shaped glove?

[HoldenGolden]

Like even if I take that at face value and agree its a reaction test, your refusal to even discuss back with answering the question contradicts it. If it is a reaction test, why aren't you taking me up on the offer to debate the test and gain more information out of the test instead of cutting it off early and telling me to not engage inquisitively back to you?

holy fuck its not that deep you're so goddamn defensive over this. its literally a "maybe could be scum" thing that i saw. if u dont stop nitpicking it i'm gonna pull my ebrake up on my parked vote

No, I am questioning you about your actions. It's not defensive; its reading you.

Since you say its nitpicking, let me explain more broadly. If it is a reaction test, I make a post bringing up a counter measure to your test. You then make a post that contradicts your test's logic. To me, this would invalidate the reaction test, as now town and scum would react like I am since there is faulty logic present. Instead of trying to resolve this by admitting the logic was faulty or by engaging with me about the contradiction to salvage it, you keep doing what you are doing.

All I wanted was an answer to a logical fallacy I saw. However, you assert over and over again that I am being defensive and not open minded about it, wanting me to instead drop asking you to answer the fallacy. I can't be open minded about a logical fallacy that isn't my own, and your reactions aren't answering the underlying issues I have. Now, you escalate to outright threatening me by permanently voting my slot if I don't stop asking you to clear up this fallacy.

Do you not see the issue here?

[HoldenGolden]

It's my foot.

Your foot is in a hand shaped glove?

Stop making fun out of the shape of my foot D:

I don't think your foot hand is hideous Hoctac. But I am going to have to eventually lynch you for identity theft.

What do you think about Dkkoba and Holden?

DkKoba seems cool and very capable of using spreadsheets! However, I did find it odd how they keep avoiding using colour in MS Paint, as if they want to make it harder to view their setup spec.

Holden seems quite skilled. He was able to deduce I was town simply from the emojis I posted alone! I would love to learn that kind of power some day.

Given your typing style, its not hard to deduce who you really are lol.

[HoldenGolden]

ok whatever I was going from experience with people daystarting with scumclaims like that being scum more often than not and my origin site's meta actually having people flip scum more often than not when they do fakeclaim scum daystart.

Ah, if you pointed out it was from a site meta difference I would be more understanding. All you said though was "town never WIFOM" after the first part which wasn't clear that was you citing a site meta difference.

but one thing i hate is when my early pushes get nitpicked because its literally

a low information stage

and im literally just flinging shit and hoping something sticks so discussion can move forward.

I dont have info neither though. I have no issue with reaction tests nor pressuring people (as anyone who knows my meta would call me out hard if I did lol), but it's hard to gauge if a push is coming from scum or town PoV when the person pushing it doesn't answer questions. Especially since my playstyle purposely attracts the RvS switchover to gauge the person who pushes for RVS to end.

Is there any other posts that pings your radar?

[HoldenGolden]

Holden, could I ask why you use "->" rather than ">" or bullet points which can be accessed using BBcode? I found your choice peculiar.

First off, do I look like a programmer? bbcode is too much work and I can't be arsed to actually learn how to use it. I probably will never host my devious bastard games like "Mod's Are Vig's" where everyone kisses the Mods' asses trying not to get vig because I do not know how to format VCs.

Indeed it's your MBTI! You are a ENFJ after all.

Hello!

Now as an English Major (I don't know how I will make a living past covid-19), I know that this form of greetings infers an indirect object of [You guys] as the greeting is not directed at a singular object. Rather, it is discarded helplessly into the void of the thread. This establishes a strong extrovert mentality, as you are putting yourself out there for the thread to pick apart at unlike an introvert who would RVS a player they played with prior out of social anxiety.

How do I look?? Be honest.

This is also both an approval-seeking post asking for confirmation over the new PFP but also expressing the desire of honesty. You don't want people to lie to you since it would hurt your feelings, also confirming you are sensitive to others views on you.

Okay!

VOTE: Holden

Hoctac vote Tuxedo

Okay!

VOTE: Tuxedo

You are again seeking approval by voting aimlessly, going with whomever wishes you to vote X previously. This also shows you are rooted in the present rather than the past or future. If you were not, then you would be more skeptical of to why people where asking you to change votes. This also showcases that you care little of where your vote actually falls onto.

Oh, we're on a new page! I'm suddenly in the spotlight for everyone to critique my post... I feel uneasy.

Huh, I swear there was some form of counterargument. Like a post that went against your extrovert ways by suggesting you didn't want to stick out from the crowd. All I see is a bunch of lines through some sentences. I am sure it means nothing, and is probably a bug on the site. I shall forward this issue to our lord and savior Mith when I submit my monthly bribe to not get banned from the site.

I could go on, but you are clearly ENFJ

[HoldenGolden]

VLA status until Saturday morning EST unless otherwise stated; Expect PM @MOD in a bit

I'll try to be back here later tonight

[HoldenGolden]

To be clear, is Hoctac actually an alt of a regular player?

He is not an outed alt. His posting style and MBTI type (this isnt a joke; the person I think he is slipped his MBTI type) matches another player to the wire. Basically I'm 99% sure he is an alt of that person.

He isnt playing that much different from his regular playstyle so I dont get much purpose of the alt if he is who I think he is.

[HoldenGolden]

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

I remember you making some jokes in the initial stage of our past game, but nothing related to claims.

It's not every game that you can make such claims unfortunately. The Joy's of a semi-open set up

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE:

Did you miss the question I posed at the end of 140 or did you choose not to respond to it on purpose?

[HoldenGolden]

hi clidd im going to hardtunnel you again as you flip PR again

You should try to be less aggressive in this game to avoid eating the NK

. If I were scum, you would already be sentenced to death because of the last few pages.

Is this a reference to a previous game?

[HoldenGolden]

My vote on Holden stays. Most awkward guy so far.

Also awkward in what way?

Dont be shy. I'm apperently the socially awkward one.

This one.

How do I look?? Be honest.

Beautiful.

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

I CC, let's lynch this scum.

Haha that was a gambit son. You just got gambitted. That role doesnt even exist in this set up! Only a moron would claim it!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

I asked awkward in what way, not where was I awkward. Can you explain what pinged you about that post then?

Do you agree with Phoenix Human Right's comment about me "WIFOM'd too much".

[HoldenGolden]

ok firstly will the ego players in the room please stand up so I can get a good idea where to start my solve without attracting a vig shot cause it would suck to get shot ;(

Nobody stood up so I'll stand up despite me not being a ego player.

The pain in my tiny donkey legs is quite bad now. Are you happy with yourself? Making me stand up like this? No wonder why you are Phoenix human rights; you clearly know nothing of animal liberties.

[HoldenGolden]

I am fatigued recently by the number of games I am currently playing, so I’ll probably be more passive here. No essay this time.

I think clidd is town. Have a feeling clidd won't be passive if this is a scum game. Just a feeling~

This seems a little confident a conclusion to draw from that alone! Are you basing this on the meta of 1 game, and have you considered the fact clidd is simply feeling fatigued, and thus wants to put in less effort regardless of alignment?

The mindmeld has occured.

Please do not stick around in my brain though. Its filthy in there.

[HoldenGolden]

immediately after DkKoba voted for them. I'm not going to defend DkKoba at length, that's for them to do, but I will say that I thought it was obvious why they dropped their spat with Holden, and Holden didn't seem to hold(en) it against them (see 140).

I can agree on why they dropped it, but what do you think of the tonal aspects of how he dropped his push on me? I have a conflicted read on Phoenix Human Rights hence my change in approach in the latter half of 140.

Also ironically the "Holden" part of the name is a pun reference. Sadly it's a Poker one though.

[HoldenGolden]

@N3R (can I call you this?): Flat-out lurking is certainly physically easier, but I think it's also much more likely to get noticed and called out, which is why I personally prioritize looking for minimal effort ahead of no effort.

@Holden: I think DkKoba's frustration reads as genuine. I used to be the same way philosophically about ED1 scumclaiming, and I know people that still are, so I can sympathize with the throwing up of the e-hands at the realization that no one else in the game was buying what they were selling when they thought they had something substantial.

There is a sense of genuineness coming from him, but that came afterwards where he admitted to doing soft pushes that were worth nothing.

As someone who used to be that way, did you escalate that quickly to assumptions like over defensiveness in who responded to your pushes? That's my main gripe with his posts is I feel the quickness of his escalation of frustration is off along with the AI charged language.

[HoldenGolden]

my logic going into d1 in a daystart setup is "who is going to be the most annoying player to deal with later on if they arent pushed to participate early on" when i determine who i want to push. Maybe my philosophy is different than most but i always want as much constructive discussion as possible. Now right now i am in passive mode but if i get angered i do start going off on people i have tonal issues with, etc. But in a vig setup i have to hold offbc i know that one fool who thinks aggression =scum is going to be a cool and good vig

I've never understood why people equate any form of aggression with being scum as it is quite the useful tool for townies depending on who they want to pressure.

There is a difference between town vs scum aggression though.

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith

.

Where is your town lean on Phoneix Human Rights coming from? Although it requires flipping the roles accuser and defendent, he expressed among his posts I was acting in bad faith to why he asked. Is the logic invaildied when reversed in your PoV?

Was the eariler remark about him toning down his aggression to avoid being NK by scum a reference to a previous game?

[HoldenGolden]

To be clear, is Hoctac actually an alt of a regular player?

He is not an outed alt. His posting style and MBTI type (this isnt a joke; the person I think he is slipped his MBTI type) matches another player to the wire. Basically I'm 99% sure he is an alt of that person.

He isnt playing that much different from his regular playstyle so I dont get much purpose of the alt if he is who I think he is.

Look, if you're going to make it this obvious, Holden, I may as well come out and just say it.

Spoiler:

I'm a Wake alt.

Shit I pissed a little. That was really good

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith

.

Where is your town lean on Phoneix Human Rights coming from? Although it requires flipping the roles accuser and defendent, he expressed among his posts I was acting in bad faith to why he asked. Is the logic invaildied when reversed in your PoV?

Was the eariler remark about him toning down his aggression to avoid being NK by scum a reference to a previous game?

If you're talking about Kilgamayan, It comes from my subjective impressions of him, nothing analytical that I can measure at the moment. I didn't notice, in what post did he express that ?

If you are referring to post 192, it is basically a warning for him to decrease the intensity of his aggression (DkKoba).

Phoenix human Rights was referring to DkKoba.

It's more of an emotional/tonal read that I'm working through, but your logic that you expressed in that post sticks out to me as applicable to my and Dkkobas interaction expect eith the roles reversed. You are town leaning him, so I was wondering if you saw the situation where he was conveying a sense of me needing to trust in what he was doing then differently then how you explained scum would do it from above. As well as why you are town leaning him (I think I know what but I would need an explanation anyways if it is that reason)

[HoldenGolden]

How do you determine a good candidate to sheep? Is based on their arguments, or having a prior town read on them?

Arguments mostly, if they make sense to me.

I'm going to assume you did not catch up to my request to explain the awkwardness given your posts and not use my Sith lighting on you.

[HoldenGolden]

My vote on Holden stays. Most awkward guy so far.

Also awkward in what way?

Dont be shy. I'm apperently the socially awkward one.

This one.

How do I look?? Be honest.

Beautiful.

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

I CC, let's lynch this scum.

Haha that was a gambit son. You just got gambitted. That role doesnt even exist in this set up! Only a moron would claim it!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

I asked awkward in what way, not where was I awkward. Can you explain what pinged you about that post then?

Do you agree with Phoenix Human Right's comment about me "WIFOM'd too much".

You joke claimed and then took it back and I don't know what to do about that.

Sort of? It's kind of unhelpful to town but I don't think that could be too much. I don't really know how anyone could wifom too much.

Wait I scrolled too quickly.

Do you think it matters that it's not an actual role possible on the set up?

I'm willing to excuse it primarily since 3 players have expressed interest in the claim joke (which means at least one townie is among you three), but I can only understand your point if o had claimed something within the scope of the game.

[HoldenGolden]

there we go. i also gave it a dark background to not hurt any eyes

What in your gut's bacteria made you feel good about me?

[HoldenGolden]

Hum, so the logic I announced on post 248, theoretically, should be applicable to the interaction between you and DkKoba and influence the read I have on him, correct ? if so, I'm afraid I can't apply to him what I said on post 248, because the context of my read on his behavior is different from the assessment I have of Datisi, for example. The contextualization (as Hoctac commented) is a great read changer and creates different segments between slots. Does that make sense to you ?

I agreed that the context was different, merely seeing if had any insight to offer into it. I figured the main reason was meta.

Townlean on cli2d

[HoldenGolden]

@DkKoba: I'll colon YOUR s :Z Also you may want to try to address Holden's issue with you once and for all if only so everyone can move on.

What makes you believe I'm asking others about Phoneix Human Rights solely to gather information on him?

Why would you want Dkkoba to end the questioning when the matter is partially outside of his control? I know you see us as TvT, but why shut the down on my questioning solely for that?

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

I cant quote by selecting what I want and then hitting the button on mobile apperently.

What do you make of Hoctacs logic he expressed later since you view it as an omgus?

[HoldenGolden]

wait nvm i see the -D i need to STOP SKIMMING

Being honest, its Datisi in that hydra which makes my brain just stop reading his posts due to the consistency he has rolled PR in all games I've been in with him. My brain is just conditioned at this point to accept Datisi as town and not actually scum hunt them.

Trying to break that notion this game has been...difficult.

[HoldenGolden]

@Holden, Dkkoba is from Town of Salem. Now I don't have much experience there, I do have experience playing forum mafia with people from there. They tend to have a hyper-aggressive and brute force playstyle, to basically beat down the other players into doing what they want. So hopefully that helps with the question you asked Kilga.

You do realize I played ToS backway long ago and RL mafia prior to fourm right lol? (I remember bringing up ToS in the newbie so I'm not sure if it exactly explained it).

I dont normally equate much to stuff like that since the different mechanics primate different playstyles that dont translate over imo. Maybe for the first couple of games, but Phoneix human Rights seems to be accustomed to fourm mafia enough where I doubt he is in a chat mafia mindset solely.

Besides ToS is garbage and I shall make people learn the benefits of fourm mafia by lynching them regardless of alignment (chat mafia is fine.)

[HoldenGolden]

this is a PR only game, reading the game is 100% about reading for roles. I am experieced in this because my first favorite open setup I played was a special setup on epicmafia. honestly mafia are going to have similar tells to vigs? not sure how to take the analysis on this but people who roll a PR role will typically be scummy in nature. but thats just deep mafia philosophy im getting into.

I know, I have a list already forming of who is what from tells.

Tbh the ideal way to approach a game like this in theory, regardless of alignment, is [reducted]

[HoldenGolden]

Also, @Holden what's your read of Dkkoba? I thought I was following it, but your last couple posts make me feel the conclusion I reached was incorrect.

And sorry about the Town of Salem versus epic Mafia, don't know how I screwed it up. @Holden I agree the chat to forum Mafia doesn't seem to have many transferable skills, and I completely forgot you mentioned past experience. However, I still maintain that many chat Mafia players play the way Dkkoba does in Forum Mafia. I don't think your assumption that they should change their playstyle really matters.

I shall answer your question with an question. What did you think my read was?

It's less that they should change their playstyles and that the differences between the two will give raise to a more nuanced playstyle independent from the previous experiences if that makes sense

[HoldenGolden]

Also, @Holden what's your read of Dkkoba? I thought I was following it, but your last couple posts make me feel the conclusion I reached was incorrect.

And sorry about the Town of Salem versus epic Mafia, don't know how I screwed it up. @Holden I agree the chat to forum Mafia doesn't seem to have many transferable skills, and I completely forgot you mentioned past experience. However, I still maintain that many chat Mafia players play the way Dkkoba does in Forum Mafia. I don't think your assumption that they should change their playstyle really matters.

I shall answer your question with an question. What did you think my read was?

It's less that they should change their playstyles and that the differences between the two will give raise to a more nuanced playstyle independent from the previous experiences if that makes sense

If it wasnt clear I plan to answer your question after you answer mine.

[HoldenGolden]

Ah you are incorrect. The post (in my ISO) right before the start of your quoted posts gives a statement about my read.

immediately after DkKoba voted for them. I'm not going to defend DkKoba at length, that's for them to do, but I will say that I thought it was obvious why they dropped their spat with Holden, and Holden didn't seem to hold(en) it against them (see 140).

I can agree on why they dropped it, but what do you think of the tonal aspects of how he dropped his push on me?

I have a conflicted read on Phoenix Human Rights hence my change in approach in the latter half of 140.

Also ironically the "Holden" part of the name is a pun reference. Sadly it's a Poker one though.

To expand, like I said before, my playstyle tends to bait the intial push out if RVS and I've grown to start anticipate the types of AI responses I would get. Phoneix human Rights was a new anomaly where he reacted in a manner ive havent seen quite before. To cut to the point, I had him nullscum at the time due to the early interaction and the tonal ssues I had with it but was conflicted by his admission of his weak push seeming genuine.

Overtime it has evolved into a townlean as I've learned more about his playstyle and more importantly had more posts from him to read.

The joke claim comment is merely saying that at least one town member (by mathematical standards) expressed something about the claim meaning. That suggests to me it may be a grey area to pursue due to this since its certain that it stuck out to town. The reason why I'm still inquiring on Ceevee about his reasoning is since it's an independent thought he had which seems by his own words to be a rare occurrence.

[HoldenGolden]

@Holden the start of my quote is 227. I didn't miss it, it is there. That was there because it felt like the start of your town read progression. Though thank you for clearing up the comment you made to CJ.

Ah I missed it. Then you misinterpreted. I feel the next post where I express that I saw genuineness in his posts but it came afterwards shows my doubt with the slot at the time.

Hello drunk person. May you tell me the color of your role PM?

[HoldenGolden]

I'm

taken

single and ready to mingle

[HoldenGolden]

@Holden the start of my quote is 227. I didn't miss it, it is there. That was there because it felt like the start of your town read progression. Though thank you for clearing up the comment you made to CJ.

Ah I missed it. Then you misinterpreted. I feel the next post where I express that I saw genuineness in his posts but it came afterwards shows my doubt with the slot at the time.

Hello drunk person. May you tell me the color of your role PM?

Green?

Hmm get drunker; you seem too sober enough to resist my mind tricks

[HoldenGolden]

ok brown

Oh shit you are Count Doo Doo

Thou is a shit lord

[HoldenGolden]

Despite it not being very illuminating from my perspective, the interaction at least yielded some comedy.

After reading off page 12 I like n3 roses posts more than earlier. I liked their defense towards kilgamayan.

UNVOTE:

Kilhamayan had already unvoted by the time you last jumped in here. Why did you not unvote then? Are you still holding out judgment on Holden? If not, what is your read of them?

May I butt into your question?

[HoldenGolden]

After reading off page 12 I like n3 roses posts more than earlier. I liked their defense towards kilgamayan.

UNVOTE:

Kilhamayan had already unvoted by the time you last jumped in here. Why did you not unvote then? Are you still holding out judgment on Holden? If not, what is your read of them?

I believe the quoted post from ceevee already explains the first question to a point where its not really helpful to inquire about (as it just going to resort to the same logic in that quoted post)

Therefore,

@Ceevee, what about their defense makes you think it's coming from a town angle? Specifically on page 12 and not factoring in earlier mentions of it via Gengish Kilha.

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm maybe I should get drunk to provoke a read out of Tuxedo. I'm sure there is cheap wine somewhere.

[HoldenGolden]

holden my dude you still have your rvs vote up, does it reflect your reads or

also same question at enomis

It's my RVS vote.

It's just vibing rn. Does that vibing bother you? Is this a no voting vibing zone?

[HoldenGolden]

why is it anti-town.

Why do you ask him a question just to turn around and say he's scum?

[HoldenGolden]

why is it anti-town.

Why do you ask him a question just to turn around and say he's scum?

Ill keep asking this question till I get something beyond Yes.

[HoldenGolden]

Hi drunk Datisi

I think getting drunk is just the theme of this game. I say we all get drunk during the night phase so the vigs have fun outcomes.

Will be here in a serious manner later

[HoldenGolden]

Alright disclamer, too much drinking. I've lost track of tjme(I think the sun is coming for me) and fuck if I can read.

So imma just goddam say it and say that tuxedo clothes me and I dont know quite why but he pingles me. Prob paranoids from telling the secrets of how to respond to shit in that newbie. Intuink hisbinteraction with the other dunk badtard showed this because hebfucking did it. He just did it on? It's hard to fucking explain.

Tuxedo is a bad fudge

[HoldenGolden]

Oh and the guys name that is like neis at the end and with a e at the front is prob also scum too. The last couple of things bother me with all the hunting. Toneal too.

George I misltnch in blitz and I feel bad so he can be town I think.

Datisiband ico are prob town.

Kilgiani have as rown and there poses are too hard to read rn so fucking town still

Hoctac is town guysbjesue christ trad theirniso and be inquisitive about it. So east

Cli2d past the logic test hammer indid with the Phoenix where he didnt jump on the chance to get logic justification. That doesn't equal town, but the tonal aswell makes sense.

I'm just gonna say jts [Tuxedo/Enis] and call it a day.

[HoldenGolden]

tuxedo

They are both just ohhhhh and scum andbjsur blah

Blah blah blah

[HoldenGolden]

Seep time

[HoldenGolden]

Apolgize, had a wicked migraine yesterday. After other obligations I'll be here.

I've realized looking at the last VC we have played this day phase entirely wrong. Who is currently leading the votes?

[HoldenGolden]

Yeah after rereading the reason I have them as a townlean isnt enough especially considering who I think pilots the account.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hoctac

I propose that we all pick someone who we feel is townie to take the fourth slot and someone in the null reaches takes the hammer. Personally I would like eronois (that name is hard to spell) to take it for reasons I'm about to post.

If people think I'm doing it in poor faith I'll gladly unvote and revote hammer position.

[HoldenGolden]

Would people oppose to Dkkoba taking the fourth vote slot and then one of [enormis/CJ] taking fifth. Drunk me was just expressing the paranoia I have over tuxedo due to me telling him how to handle accusations in a newbie which is leading to a WIFOM game I'm no longer entertaining. Cli2d I still like enough not to put as hammer

[HoldenGolden]

Had to step away from computer annoyingly so delayed on enmoius post. It's a lukewarm nullscum tho. His ISO isnt nearly as bad as I thought I saw.

Hoctac, the wagons are currently 3-3 but in reality will be 4-3 since CJ will vote for you most likely. Convince me why I should switch my vote. Bribes are welcome. Outting potential scum partners is even better, and I'll keep you alive till lylo if possible for such a noble act.

[HoldenGolden]

enomis hopping onto the ceejay wagon whilst ignoring Holden's stated desire that enomis be a possible hammer vote is rather sus, particularly since ceejay was Holden's other stated hammerer preference and ceejay is presumably not going to hammer himself. Trying to dodge #SUPERSAINTRISK, enomis?

Did you even read the game? I was literally voting ceejay, switched to Dkkoba because I was the only one voting ceejay and switched back now that there is a wagon.
+
I didn't read the game yet at that point which is pretty explicit by my post. So I didn't see Holden's post.
+
i am not going to be the one to hammer just because Holden states it. I would rather a not confirm townie hammer then me a 100% confirmed townie hammer.

---------

Finding this statement here super sus.

That's why I offered it to the whole thread.

Your counteragurment to being the hammer is universal. By your logic, nobody should be forced to hammer.

[HoldenGolden]

Why do we want Ceejay lynched?

No idea.

My vote on Hoctac is primarily for information since there have been merry go round wagons forming and disbanding while Hoctac's stagnated.

Sell me on DKKoba. I'm one of the people who flipped. What do you make of my flip?

I'll give you sushi for info.

[HoldenGolden]

Ah you are incorrect. The post (in my ISO) right before the start of your quoted posts gives a statement about my read.

immediately after DkKoba voted for them. I'm not going to defend DkKoba at length, that's for them to do, but I will say that I thought it was obvious why they dropped their spat with Holden, and Holden didn't seem to hold(en) it against them (see 140).

I can agree on why they dropped it, but what do you think of the tonal aspects of how he dropped his push on me?

I have a conflicted read on Phoenix Human Rights hence my change in approach in the latter half of 140.

Also ironically the "Holden" part of the name is a pun reference. Sadly it's a Poker one though.

To expand, like I said before, my playstyle tends to bait the intial push out if RVS and I've grown to start anticipate the types of AI responses I would get. Phoneix human Rights was a new anomaly where he reacted in a manner ive havent seen quite before. To cut to the point, I had him nullscum at the time due to the early interaction and the tonal ssues I had with it but was conflicted by his admission of his weak push seeming genuine.

Overtime it has evolved into a townlean as I've learned more about his playstyle and more importantly had more posts from him to read

.

The joke claim comment is merely saying that at least one town member (by mathematical standards) expressed something about the claim meaning. That suggests to me it may be a grey area to pursue due to this since its certain that it stuck out to town. The reason why I'm still inquiring on Ceevee about his reasoning is since it's an independent thought he had which seems by his own words to be a rare occurrence.

Ping pong back to you PP. If you want more explaintion I can explain. Eating the California rolls rn tho so better be quick

[HoldenGolden]

No issues since he changed his Pfp to no longer be Phoenix human rights making it hard to know who I was talking about.

I can understand those points somewhat. What do you make of his scumlean progression on Tuxedo? Mainly do you think it was fabricated by him to escape voting elsewhere?

[HoldenGolden]

I changed my pfp so u ppl would stop misgendering me but i guess that didn't work!

Apologizes for pronouns.

[HoldenGolden]

And yet you didnt share why you got "cleared" so we dont end ul doing the same this game. Also i dont see anyone answering my question about bomb mechs

As stated on the front page and quoted, bombs cannot be roleblocked.

Why do you think PP would explicitly state the plan as town if it hasn't been mentioned? I'm not quite sure what speculation was done that game, but I dont see why town!PP should of injected that into the thread considering how short on time we are.

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm dewagon construction close to deadline
My scum lean getting put onto the batting line
Do I smell......shenanigans?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Enomis

I believe that is L2

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm I'm not bother by that wagon formation tbh and more bothered by my ability to not count right.

[HoldenGolden]

*BESTIALITY ALERT *

if you are my father, then that means you fucked a donkey sir! I'm afraid that's a crime against nature like I am.

[HoldenGolden]

I agree with you on that; in fact, I was the first person to point that out. Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play, but the DkKoba NK points towards him. I liked Kilga day 1 with his solving and case on me, and I liked how he entered today with his case on you, but since then, he's been less inspiring and feels more cautious/apologetic. You were cool on day 1, but your tone shifted a lot upon entering LyLo it feels like, and you haven't done much to try and solve people. Roses I think is kinda scummy by play, I still don't like their day 1, but I got 1 town ping from how Ico 180ed on me lol. Unsure if I should be giving that much stake.

If I had to rank them, then maybe:
Penpow
Kilga
Roses
Tuxey

But they're very jumbled and close together in my head. I'm sure of very little and that's very worrying.

Ez game

Ignore all the items I changed my mind pls

I was the night kill as well

When you posted that I could be the nk and rose + tuxedo (aka team prom night) was scum, the pain was unbearable.

Gg WP to scum!

[HoldenGolden]

Time to find out why the hell I was shot.

I was not expecting the night one death tbh lol

[HoldenGolden]

Nth! Thank you George for the modding! Was very smooth and well done.

Pedit: But that was drunk me. Sober me just kinda vibed this game.

It still amazes me both Me and Dkkoba got you as scum after a few drinks

Ppedit: Eh, I think my latch on to the Enomis wagon could of been expoilted, but i can see what you were saying

[HoldenGolden]

If Hoctac wasn't a blank I wouldn't have stood a chance.

I think you did good, especially in the Dkkoba interaction which is hard for scum to handle sometimes.

The biggest thing I saw was you were overtly cautious with the kilga wagon to the point it didnt make sense for town. You voiced to PP for example that you were ready to vote them due to the deadline, yet never did and immediately began a dialogue with kilga which collided more with that mindset. From an outside PoV, town!you should of been voting there to prevent your scum reads from avoiding the hammer or to actually secure the lynch.

I realized though halfway thru day 1 that we (town) were way too passive day 1 and should of been more liberal with wagonning since scum has much more pause in the lolhammer department.

[HoldenGolden]

hey holden, i finally didn't roll town PR in a game with you

I'm sorry the player list says Night 3 Rose not Datisi.

Datisi still hasn't rolled a PR yet with me technically

[HoldenGolden]

btw, in scumchat, i edited tuxy's avatar to be of proper proportions, and i was deadass nervous someone who knows me is gonna notice that and put two and two together

Oh is that why his profile looked slightly different halfway through ?

Reminds me of people town reading cli2d for changing his pfp halfway through a game to Sherlock Holmes