Mini Normal 2157 | Mafia PT

[Alduskkel]

Hey everyone. My role PM says that there's 7 VTs and 3 Masons. I have no idea why our JOAT has a Jailkeeper ability lol.

The main players I know in this game are Iconeum and Datisi.

[Alduskkel]

Oh yeah, that's possible.

Datisi's been a fairly accurate scumhunter lately, and also modded a game where I was scum so should be pretty aware of my scumplay.

[Alduskkel]

VPB, careful about tying yourself too much to NPOW

[Alduskkel]

Alduskkel -- if we were going to do some dualing wagon action, who would you want run up with NPOM?

was this meant to go here? I want to interrogate you over it but if it was a scumslip I'd rather not lol

[Alduskkel]

maybe masons know we have daytalk w/o an encryptor because they have daytalk w/o an encryptor

[Alduskkel]

DKK asking to be doc'd is probably just ego or bait

[Alduskkel]

lol if only we could have both troll hammered, that'd have been epic

[Alduskkel]

I think role cop or PT cop makes more sense here. We should nightkill someone we think is a mason.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah I vote no because you're probably in the best position out of the 3 of us

[Alduskkel]

i think maybe we kill iconeum and cop george

thoughts?

[Alduskkel]

i have no idea who's a mason, i just think icon is a relatively strong townie

[Alduskkel]

VPB, do you have any mason suspects?

[Alduskkel]

the masons can't just be icon dats george right? like, that'd be too easy?

[Alduskkel]

my only concern with a GB kill is if he's a VT we don't really gain much at all

[Alduskkel]

what if we kill datisi and PT cop koba or GB

[Alduskkel]

lol the deadline passed so i guess GB is dying

[Alduskkel]

uh oh spaghettio

probably you should just fake ignorance about datisi's claim? say maybe he got roleblocked or something

there's no real way out of it other than to say "your action must have failed for some reason other than me being scum" ... unless you want to say datisi is fakeclaiming but that sounds way less believable

[Alduskkel]

damn i was right we should have killed datisi but also i low key didn't want to cuz we're friends

[Alduskkel]

how do you know?

also datisi's pronoun is he

[Alduskkel]

hmm, it occurs to me that it would be strange for what is presumably a 3 person mason group to be able to potentially add a 4th to their group. maybe this is a gambit where one of them actually tracked you to the nightkill and they're trying to bait you into a claim that doesn't check out with that?

[Alduskkel]

if this is true then your ideal play is to claim a PR that targeted george BEFORE the gambit is outed

[Alduskkel]

maybe a weak investigative like Follower or Motion Detector
or maybe a PT Cop? a mason group might be likely to believe that unless they themselves have a PT cop

[Alduskkel]

maybe 1-shot or 2-shot PT Cop?

[Alduskkel]

oooh, what about commuter? if you commuted last night that would explain why the loyal neighborize failed

[Alduskkel]

never mind you made the post

*crosses fingers*

[Alduskkel]

i'm not sure a commuter claim would have gone over well anyway, like would a commuter really makes posts like 1951 and 1953?

[Alduskkel]

your "uuuuugh i don't want to claim" makes more sense if you're an investigative rather than a role that can protect itself

[Alduskkel]

it's a shitty situation no matter what tbh

[Alduskkel]

will probably do that but i'm waiting just a bit to see if datisi is about to reveal it was a gambit or something

yeah, in retrospect if we had known this would happen then playing it super calm and claiming commuter might have done the trick, but there wasn't a lot of time so we had to come up with something fast.

[Alduskkel]

OHHHH SHIIIIIIIT DID WE ACTUALLY NAIL THAT FAKECLAIM?

[Alduskkel]

DUDE I'M SMILING SO MUCH RIGHT NOW I'M A GENIUS

WE DID IT

[Alduskkel]

datisi probably isn't a mason with andres, koba, or bob (voted bob and koba. datisi has also asked a lot of questions/had a lot of disagreements with andres, which doesn't seem like it comes from two people who know each other to be town and can privately talk together)
and we KNOW icon isn't a mason
that means testarossa, billy, and hellbooks likely contain 2/3 of the other masons

if VPB fakeclaims a positive i think we can pick someone who has a super high likelihood of actually being a mason and thus out the entire mason group

[Alduskkel]

- hellbooks: the early townread of me makes me sliiiightly vary this could be pocketing, but i just kinda agree with her takes here?

this sounds like a read that a mason would give on their mason partner

[Alduskkel]

also town reading datisti

my personal vanguard is DATISI / VP BALTAR / DK KOBA / ICONEUM

beep beep beep my mason detector is going off

[Alduskkel]

I'm fine with assuming Datisi/Billy/Hell for the time being.

yeah i forgot datisi helped flashwagon testarossa so this seems like the correct answer

[Alduskkel]

billy has several posts arguing that andre's wrong about suspecting datisi.

[Alduskkel]

i think datisi wanted icon to be like a "decoy mason" by hard townreading him but since we know that icon has no PT access...

[Alduskkel]

Should we try to direct the wagon toward a mason today?

why would we want to do that? it's never going to go through to elimination.

[Alduskkel]

something to consider is that if we nightkill a mason then a town VPB would be less likely to claim a "has a PT" result

it's also possible that datisi is claiming the night action of one of the other masons. when datisi made that claim he likely knew it would result in his death -- so if you're the mason group, you'd want the mason with no other powers to take the bullet, rather than the mason who's also a tracker. so perhaps we'd actually be better off shooting hellbooks or billy on night 2.

[Alduskkel]

is that a better fakeclaim than if scum!VPB had claimed something like commuter though?

heheheheheheh

[Alduskkel]

I'm already committed to townreading Bob, is it okay if I bus NPOM? But ideally I'd like you guys to get a Bob elim today while I protest it.

[Alduskkel]

Like I wanna distance but I don't actually want NPOM eliminated today lol

[Alduskkel]

part of a man

???

If you mean "masonry" then no, you should absolutely not claim to be a Mason, that's a death sentence.

Anyway, I'm going to spend a bit thinking about our night actions.

[Alduskkel]

it's also possible that datisi is claiming the night action of one of the other masons. when datisi made that claim he likely knew it would result in his death -- so if you're the mason group, you'd want the mason with no other powers to take the bullet, rather than the mason who's also a tracker. so perhaps we'd actually be better off shooting hellbooks or billy on night 2.

I think the smart play is NPOM uses his multitasking, kills Billy, and jails hellbooks.
Assuming Billy flips Mason:
Tomorrow, VPB waits to post until Datisi posts. If Datisi says something like "why didn't you target anyone last night, VPB?" then claim you were a 1-shot PT Cop. Otherwise, claim you got a positive result but are hesitant to reveal it because the target could be a Mason. If the town agrees you should reveal your result, claim a positive on hellbooks.

This is a bit risky but if I've read the situation right (i.e., I'm right about the masons being dats-hellbooks-billy and that dats isn't the tracker), then it has a high reward.

The more standard play is NPOW multitask kills Datisi and rolecops hellbooks.

[Alduskkel]

@Mod
NPOM kills Billy.
NPOM jails hellbooks.

we can change it if we want later but I just want to have something submitted

[Alduskkel]

wait, thought you wanted to rolecop hellbrooks?

I do think jailing makes a lot of sense though and is probably more powerful

Yeah, jailing because it guarantees no tracker result unless Datisi really is the tracker (which is why you wait for Datisi to say something on Day 3 if Billy doesn't flip Tracker).

As for the "no result" thing... I would say claim you misread/misunderstood the PM due to hasty reading/seeing the GB kill before the investigation result PM. Claiming to be "False" or vanillaized would be transparently fake. ("False" isn't even normal.)

[Alduskkel]

MLG PLAYS

Not sure yet whether a fake positive on andres or a true positive on hellbooks is best. Let's see how things develop.

[Alduskkel]

I think you claim a pos result on hellbooks and we play for an andres miselim today. Tomorrow you claim a pos on the weakest townie and we try to win there.

[Alduskkel]

or if after mass claim town is like "yeah 3 masons is bs" we can swing that way instead of going for andres

[Alduskkel]

How in the world is this a game with 3 Masons? What?

ohoho

[Alduskkel]

never mind he immediately voted me

[Alduskkel]

Hopefully my pivot onto Andres comes across as organic. I think I built up to it well enough.

[Alduskkel]

I'm not

[Alduskkel]

i'm going to play the resigned townie and also setup testarossa and koba to look bad if I flip

[Alduskkel]

if i get eliminated probably the correct play is kill datisi rolecop hellbooks. VPB claims a guilty but you need to decide whether you think you can get one more elimination (in which case claim a guilty on test) or if you want to bus (claim a guilty on NPOM) or you could do something weird like claim a guilty on a townie but try to make it look like you're bussing them

our best bets for the miselims are testarossa and koba, probably in that order too.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah p much

[Alduskkel]

oh oop i just voted test LOL

[Alduskkel]

dodged a bullet, that was a real nailbiter

and we still have another day to go, but yeah, this should be in the bag now.

my vote on testarossa might have looked bad but it might also have been necessary given how much hesitation datisi was showing

[Alduskkel]

honestly thinking maybe VPB should claim a guilty on me or something lol

[Alduskkel]

We should probably game out both an inno and guilty on Aldus to see what that looks like

What do you mean by "game out"?

[Alduskkel]

I mean, we have a full day still. We can take more time if needed. Just feels to me like there is a case on testa and a gut on aldus. I'll be dead tomorrow or I'd offer to just cop Aldus and sort it. Wish we had a doc

didn't you basically say that you were going to investigate me? like I have no idea how you'd sell it tomorrow if you were like "actually I investigated someone else"

[Alduskkel]

if you claim a guilty on me then you definitely win that fight
maybe then next day you claim a guilty on koba, koba definitely looks bad for pushing testa

[Alduskkel]

also: since it's lylo for the rest of the game, you can always sell the idea that you're alive because scum want you miselim'd

[Alduskkel]

Yeah I dunno how you explain being alive on Day 5, that's like the one flaw in the plan (guilty on me then guilty on koba) imo

it's just every other plan seems worse

[Alduskkel]

claiming an inno on me just seems like it'll lead to a double quickelim on us

i guess another option is claiming guilty on koba day 4? but that's still leaves you in the difficult position of explaining 1) why you're still alive and 2) why you didn't investigate me

[Alduskkel]

why would you be roleblocked now but not during N2?

[Alduskkel]

(not a direct response to the above) if you claim a guilty on koba, you can make a good argument that koba-scum would rather have a 1v1 with VPB than icon or andres, both of whom have racked up a fair amount of towncred by now

[Alduskkel]

koba's pronoun is they

[Alduskkel]

i still think it looks better if you claim a guilty on me and only on day 5 claim a guilty on koba

[Alduskkel]

@NPOM: I know you prefer that VPB claim a guilty on Koba right away. How do you think VPB explains not investigating me after making this post?

I mean, we have a full day still. We can take more time if needed. Just feels to me like there is a case on testa and a gut on aldus. I'll be dead tomorrow or I'd offer to just cop Aldus and sort it. Wish we had a doc

I also just feel like every single town player is against me so trying to get myself out of that hole seems basically impossible.

[Alduskkel]

maybe i leverage my obvscumness and act like i'm leaning toward voting you over koba

[Alduskkel]

if we go with the immediate guilty on koba then NPOM needs to be careful to not look too aligned with VPB, because if this plan fails then NPOM is probably the only one with a chance of surviving the fallout

i tend to be online afternoons and evenings/late nights PST

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, okay, we'll give it a shot. NPOW and I will avoid supporting you though until a townie votes wrong and we can pounce.

[Alduskkel]

well, I'm feeling fairly confident because I think there's a solid chance Ico votes Koba.

unfortunately what NPOM has posted so far is pretty much the opposite of distancing from you

[Alduskkel]

IKR, unfortunately he's also spot on about NPOM and me

[Alduskkel]

NPOM are you around? Koba's trying to goad Icon into voting them.

[Alduskkel]

the distrust between koba and icon is going to be our key to victory i think

[Alduskkel]

uh oh

[Alduskkel]

i was literally about to quickvote NPOM to make it look like i was scum trying to jump for a fast town elimination but he unvoted too quickly

[Alduskkel]

looks like i'm gonna be practicing my bullshitting skills here

[Alduskkel]

NPOM you can apparently do whatever the fuck you want in this game lmao

[Alduskkel]

don't insult yourself like that

[Alduskkel]

My vote is ready but I don't expect Icon to actually vote Koba anytime soon.

[Alduskkel]

Thanks! Sleep well.

[Alduskkel]

was kinda counting on *some* reaction to my vote from iconeum...

[Alduskkel]

well my plan was icon would unvote immediately and we'd get sweet distancing between me and NPOM but it doesn't look like it's going that way

[Alduskkel]

Um, why did NPOM's role PM get posted? None of the previous flips had a role PM posted. The fact that the town now knows NPOM had a PT Cop ability really raises the probability that you get eliminated.

[Alduskkel]

I think our only shot at winning might be a 3p of me, Andres, and hellbooks. Because I don't see myself convincing Koba or Icon to vote Andres over me.

[Alduskkel]

Icon is basically conftown due to NPOM's flip. Koba will be basically conftown after your flip.

[Alduskkel]

Thanks for the tips, here's hoping for the best.

VP Baltar kills Iconeum

[Alduskkel]

Now the question is whether I claim a guilty on you or Andres. Which situation is going to give the best wifom for you?

I'm not sure. The problem is that it's going to be pretty obvious you're trying to WIFOM the town either way.

If you were scum with Andres, what would you do?

[Alduskkel]

I'll consider taking Koba, it depends on what they say tomorrow.

Also jeez the mod posting in thread that all flips now include role PMs just feels like it further confirms you're scum lol

[Alduskkel]

pretty sure koba thinks i'm scummier than andres though

[Alduskkel]

*shrug*

Sure, if you can make it look like a bus.

[Alduskkel]

neither of those sound like great ideas lol

[Alduskkel]

Fighting hard but I don't think it's gonna be enough.

[Alduskkel]

Thanks, I'll bring that up now

[Alduskkel]

VPB didn't claim a guilty on me because in case the plan goes awry (which it did) it's way better for the scumteam to have Koba be conftown than for me to be conftown.

I felt very dirty writing this LOL

[Alduskkel]

i'm like. this [] close to conceding

[Alduskkel]

in what universe do I win this lol

[Alduskkel]

lol if I get eliminated u can just tell the mod you concede so we don't have to go through the formality of a Night 5/Day 6 and waste everyone's time