Mini Normal 2180 | Fake Peoples | Endgame

[unwnd]

VOTE: Shoshin

[unwnd]

I think Noraa is townie and seems relaxed

If this is a wrong assumption say it now

[unwnd]

Purely tone as that's all that has happened so far, and I am impatient

[unwnd]

I think Noraa is townie and seems relaxed

If this is a wrong assumption say it now

she hasn't really faced any pressure yet. Why wouldn't she be relaxed?

Nobody has, and the vibe I got from her reading games is that strong impressions is something she relies upon

[unwnd]

strong impressions is something she relies upon

you mean like she relies on to read other people or her impressions is what people rely on to read her?

More of the second example, but in the sense that she uses her impressions to get townread early on

I don't think her playstyle has developed enough to become gratuitously self-aware yet

[unwnd]

I mean I just explained why I think that Noraa lol

[unwnd]

The game isn't static, I think posting whatever is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't lead to you constantly doing it and being 100 posts

[unwnd]

i was about to ask that but midway beat me to it so instead, the first townlean of the game goes to midway!!

Would scum!Datisi say this? I don't think it serves him any value as scum here.

my brain is telling me this is opportunistic scum trying to pocket me
my heart is telling me no, midway is town

i will listen to my heart for now

I like your brain more here, but I empathize with your heart

[unwnd]

Yeah I think out of everyone who looked at my posts his left me feeling the most empty

[unwnd]

i know what the word spiky means when describing an animal i just don't know what it means ~metaphorically~

also i will need some elaboration on that claim because how am i being paranoid and what do you even expect me to be doing that i am not doing and why and whatever else i'm supposed to ask you here idk

barely anything in these last 4 pages has pinged any way in the slightest bit. I don't really understand how ur reading so hard into so many things that literally look like nothing to me :/

do you wanna know the truth???? i'm bullshitting my reads real fucking bad right now because the game has to start *somewhere*

is it a tiny miniscule ping? did baltar just make a post that can be described as non-commital? i'm gonna latch onto it just fuckign watch me we'll get this game to 100 pages in no time

I get you're sleeping but this is a dangerous thing to do if you're not careful. Why did you feel you had to in the first place? If you're just 'bullshitting' then I'm not sure where to take your content at face value

[unwnd]

OK I guess you're not sleeping, but I really think you should

Don't get overwhelmed

[unwnd]

I think your explanation is reasonable and I agreed with your pressure on Baltar, it just came out a bit undercooked as I feel you're trying to force yourself to stay engaged

[unwnd]

Like you were trying to get him to explain himself and he just decisively cut through your unprepared arguments. I didn't get much of out of it in terms of a read but the effort was notable enough

[unwnd]

gun to head solve is Peta/Dat/ABR?
ignore this post. its for post game where I get to see how many scum I got on page 6

I don't see this ever being the solve

[unwnd]

Yeah I agree with you, I think it's normal to respond to someone when they ask you something but I can't shake the feeling he was baiting you a bit

[unwnd]

So you've adapted your playstyle? Would you say you would be more fiery as scum here?

this game player list is like baby yoda man. i wanna hug each and every one of you. you are not scary. you make me happy.

This is more telling to you than it would ever be to me actually

[unwnd]

ABR'S arrogance means nothing until he uses it for purpose

[unwnd]

It was funny when you were calling everyone baby yoda ABR, needed a sitcom laughtrack

[unwnd]

VOTE: Gamma emerald

[unwnd]

I almost hesitated because I find myself voting him early but this time it's merited

[unwnd]

I almost hesitated because I find myself voting him early but this time it's merited

Tell me more. I'm not an expert at reading gamma. That post didn't feel scummy to me, but maybe it is a meta thing?

It's just very out of character for him. I don't feel his normal behavior emits that type of force where he can make posts just calling something town/scum

[unwnd]

I think that your mimicry doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you don't understand what makes it effective, which is my initial complaint. If you kept doing it after explaining it doesn't take away from the initial feeling

[unwnd]

I think that your mimicry doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you don't understand what makes it effective, which is my initial complaint. If you kept doing it after explaining it doesn't take away from the initial feeling

I didn't do it for anything involving "what makes mastina's version effective", I just felt like doing the thing where I quote a post and call it town or scum would help me get started in the game, and I think I was right. The point of my exercise here was to get through the least interesting part of RVS when reading back efficiently.

Why not do it in your head? Or in a separate notepad

[unwnd]

If you agree your posts were mostly self-serving, then what purpose do you have to provide them

It has to be self-serving in a way that is efficient or something you're doing to get reads, I don't know if you honestly believe that those players were town/scum from one post that you read from catchup

[unwnd]

If you agree your posts were mostly self-serving, then what purpose do you have to provide them

It has to be self-serving in a way that is efficient or something you're doing to get reads, I don't know if you honestly believe that those players were town/scum from one post that you read from catchup

why aren't u picking on me for still pouring out loads of absolute bullshit posts?

You're different people

[unwnd]

Gamma if you say you posted in the way you did to invite attention and then you get upset when you're getting it, IDK what to tell you

[unwnd]

I don't know if you honestly believe that those players were town/scum from one post that you read from catchup

obviously

I'm not intending on reading people off one post

the idea is the different things I note add up to my overall read

you're honestly being over-critical at this point, it should be obvious I'm not just reading people off one post here

Yet it seems like based on your posting you do think ABR is scum lol

[unwnd]

I don't know if you honestly believe that those players were town/scum from one post that you read from catchup

obviously

I'm not intending on reading people off one post

the idea is the different things I note add up to my overall read

you're honestly being over-critical at this point, it should be obvious I'm not just reading people off one post here

Yet it seems like based on your posting you do think ABR is scum lol

yes and how many times in my first few catchups did I call him scum? Definitely more than once. Stop playing dumb, because that has to be the only way you legitimately think this.

I just feel like you're not understanding why I don't like your posts. My personal take on posting in mafia games is that once you've put it out there, it's free to criticize. You yourself admitted that your style of taking on mastina was for

attention and for others to read your posts/i]. Correct me if I'm wrong? You have me responding to you, this should be good in your eyes. Instead you tell me I'm being dense for the consideration. The thing is about established player meta is that I can't just start to act like Noraaa and think it will work the same. I think that you chose to behave this way because you want to be townread like mastina would for doing what you did and nothing else

[unwnd]

If I were scum and I did something questionable I would like a quick explanation before I get buried

So no I don't read him explaining as anything, the intent was already provided when he chose to do it

[unwnd]

Yes

The game is boring at the surface level for me, I'm not interested in what people type most of the time. I think it's all very easy to fake, therefore I look for tells that aren't explicit such as someone's timing or their delivery. I think scum are more likely to process their posts and even use rhetoric to give off a certain vibe, while townies are shamefully honest and full of mistakes. When it comes to you midway, my issue with reading you is that you seem afraid of mistakes. You'd rather comfortably sideline and say things like 'people are too quick to give reads' but I think that's both unhelpful and lazy. I stand by what I said earlier: Post whatever you want as long as it doesn't start to become hyperposting. You seem very afraid of being judged for a wrong read and I'm not sure if it's because you think you should really really think about them when there's about 283 posts (e.g You don't understand the concept of D1), or you're nervous for scum reasons; Right now I lean the latter.

[unwnd]

If you prefer your own style then stick with it, I'm not reading you as gamma trying to be mastina, I'm reading you as gamma and what the attempt means

[unwnd]

Yes

The game is boring at the surface level for me, I'm not interested in what people type most of the time. I think it's all very easy to fake, therefore I look for tells that aren't explicit such as someone's timing or their delivery. I think scum are more likely to process their posts and even use rhetoric to give off a certain vibe, while townies are shamefully honest and full of mistakes. When it comes to you midway, my issue with reading you is that you seem afraid of mistakes. You'd rather comfortably sideline and say things like 'people are too quick to give reads' but I think that's both unhelpful and lazy. I stand by what I said earlier: Post whatever you want as long as it doesn't start to become hyperposting. You seem very afraid of being judged for a wrong read and I'm not sure if it's because you think you should really really think about them when there's about 283 posts (e.g You don't understand the concept of D1), or you're nervous for scum reasons; Right now I lean the latter.

Midway's not a newbie, no?

Yes, that actually underlines the problem

[unwnd]

I don't think this game is going much places, I agree with Shoshin in spirit but I don't want to end up just with my own thoughts. I think Dat/Noraa are still town and that's basically where I've been since the last time I've posted.

VP, your engagement level towards me is interesting but I too am not ready to call what it means exactly. You started off with saying that you caught me in that marathon yet I think marathons bode well with just gut feelings. It doesn't seem like you're thinking like that however towards me

[unwnd]

VP, your engagement level towards me is interesting but I too am not ready to call what it means exactly. You started off with saying that you caught me in that marathon yet I think marathons bode well with just gut feelings. It doesn't seem like you're thinking like that however towards me

Rvs bodes well for gut reads too. In fact, my biggest shortcoming is that I don't trust my gut reads enough

Plus I have the benefit that you were just coming off marathon play, so you were in that mindset already.

It's woo woo, I know. That's why I am second guessing myself

I've given your hesitance a bit of thought and right now I'm willing to ceasefire

I was never going to go into you, I just retained some thoughts earlier such as you baiting Dat with his poor pressure

[unwnd]

Reading your interaction a bit earlier I felt like you were giving him loaded questions

The whole thing started with him saying you were pre-emptively defending him, which in turn lead to you being a stern

It's surprising in hindsight that Dat didn't incur a bit of whiplash from that

[unwnd]

I genuinely read your conversation like you were a strict father telling his son not to play in traffic, but then you realized maybe you were being too mean on the sport and gave him ice cream

[unwnd]

I'll reiterate that

You give off this vibe of join date experience when it comes to interacting with some fresher accounts. Your posts seem to come from a place where you know better, therefore the questionable actions you would take in the eyes of someone like Dat should already be explained

[unwnd]

My question to you is then do you feel you got something out of it? Your interaction with Dat

[unwnd]

I never stated a townread on Shoshin, I think there is a lot of questionable behavior from her actually. I'd much prefer biding my time however because ABR doesn't want to hear this but he's going for a level 0 lim right now.

[unwnd]

The only thing that could be viable here is that Shoshin is giving me all the tells of an astray sheep, but I think she's kinda just repeating a guilty conscience. The townread on me just because I'm not voting her doesn't make sense. Asking others to check her meta, no sense. I think there is such a dramatic change from when she thought she had a chance to now where the content has seemingly become much more rife. Yes, I understand she thinks she's at death row but from what I can gather she was absolutely confident with someone like Dat and made posts in the vein of 'well, I'll just townread later so I'm not bothered.' Shoshin, I think in order to be town your efforts have to be a giving one and not merely done because you cracked to pressure. I can't really townread what you're doing right now in that fashion, because your reads don't make sense in terms of your engagement and built mostly on people who aren't voting you. You've pretty much told me nothing and you can't seriously think that scum are just lining up to kill you?

[unwnd]

@Nora

I think unwnd & midway are town. I'm currently sorting my wagon but unsure about these players. Datisi's probably town who voted me out of frustration. VPB/ABR/SirCake are just ignoring my meta to push my lynch, & I'll know more about their alignment based on how they play the rest of this day out. I'd expect any self-respecting townie to actually check my meta claims, or at least give weight to players who know me (you, Gamma, DV, and Icon) when they tell them that this is just how I play as town. VPB strikes me as the most reasonable of the bunch, so I'd suspect if he doesn't reevaluate before this day ends. I think I'll be able to read IV if he answers my question about his town read on Datisi & based on play later. At the moment, there's not more to say because a lot of my reads turn on how these players behave as the day progresses.

I'm also reconsidering Gamma's alignment. I thought his play didn't make much sense earlier, but there's actually some logic to it that fits Gamma's style. He's leaning town for defending me a bit, though I expect a lot more before day ends.

You seemed very confident towards Dat in your ability to have right reads but this doesn't seem confident to me at all? Why even make those statements to him? You kept claiming how your reads are awesome and that made it valid for you to be trusted and in terms not voted, but yet your own defense is meta and even at L-2 you're not willing to commit if scum are pushing you. I actually made the mistake of not reading this fully and seeing you couldn't do that. Why? ABR/VPB/SirCake ignoring meta blah blah. What does it mean when you say VPB is reasonable but if he doesn't reevaulate before the day ends? This really just doesn't tell me anything

[unwnd]

I'm not trying to be that person but meta can't save you. I want you to rethink what you're doing otherwise I will actually put you at L-1. I don't know your meta and I don't care about it now. I'm not trying to be a more wordy version of ABR but I cannot in good conscience town read someone who made about 5-7 posts each referring back to their meta as their only line of defense. Please show me that the claims you made to Dat are true and not merely something that you put up on the spot because you're increasingly nervous about the presentation of your posts, not the content

[unwnd]

Nothing too serious yet. You?

Nora's obviously town.

Gamma's scummy for supporting votes on me,

& unwnd's towny for voting Gamma.

VOTE: Noraa

I also find this scummy from ABR.

discrediting people who vote you by implying they’re scum

I didn't say anyone was scummy for voting me.

I said that voting me during RVS isn't reason to read someone as town. I was questioning your thought process, not the person who voted me. Why would voting me be towny? It still doesn't make sense to me.

I actually facepalmed at this

Please soshin lol

If you're town, ABR, you're embarrassing yourself right now.

Why did you say this when from what I can see you never stopped having a scumread on him

[unwnd]

So shoshin--

I actually went and looked at your older games. I think they're irrelevant in the larger scope of things. Let me explain why

1) They're outddated and were done more than over a year ago.

Meta becomes less and less of a tell dependent on how long the games inbetween took place. It also should never be a determining factor rather something to just give you guidance. This goes for both alignments. You can't just pick something back up and then not accumulate a bit of loss in your technique.The games you won as scum are meaningless to me and the town games you played in are even more meaningless. Human error requires us to make mistakes or even sometimes misremember ourselves. Can you honestly say you can remember a game from 2019 like it happened yesterday? Probably not. I can pick out my own scumgames and not even understand why I was acting the way I did. It all becomes situational in my opinion.

2) They're not relevant to the conversation at hand.

I didn't comb through your old games, I mostly skimmed. A behavior I noticed from your scum ones is that you are very forthright and cock-sure, and tend to look at the game while biting your thumb. I saw a lot of 'this is boring', 'im not interseted in this' and just general naysaying while maintaining seemingly strong reads. Because this is not relevant to the conversation I am not going to harp on you for this, but I want to say in the position of you being town your meta does not seem like an argument that makes me want to townread you, because it is eerily similar.

3) As scum, you're going to try to play the way you would as town.

Is this not true? Mafia 101? As scum try to do things you would as town and fool others by doing so. If people noticed discrepancies then it makes you more suspect, so saying 'this is how I play as town' is literally what scum want people to think. I have to think you're making a questionable argument then because scum typically don't care about reads because they wouldn't spend their time determining alignment. I kinda think that's what you've mostly done so far. I can't see where you've determined your opinions, and more-so I can't see where those small comments are leading somewhere. I think you would definitely think something along the lines of 'If I try to do that small question thing I did as town, hopefully others will townread me.' That's personally how I read it because from what I gather those questions would go somewhere? Yet your only paragraph about your reads is basically just null and townreading those who don't vote you. It's just a very shallow perception to have for someone who wants to say they can solve the game by D2. I think right now you're either leaning on your own bias or you're doing it intentionally to save face as scum. I've given my reason why I believe this. I again am not ABR however, I think if you're doing being a bit too vain and not getting your point across then the best thing you could do is just commit to some thoughts you've had this game towards players because it will help us in the long run.

[unwnd]

I don't have any established townblock yet and I think making them this early is dangerous

Shoshin, in a hypothetical scenario that scum were merely on your wagon because the narrative driven thus far has lead them to think it's an easy wagon, who would be scum? Who are the people on your wagon (or have reasons) to be there are the most suspect?

[unwnd]

ah, that wouldn't be a reason for me to townread you though imo

Your play here is actually a bit different from what I remember of you from that game. I also think I remember hardcore thinking you were mafia only to change my mind before the end?

(@Shoshin)

--

Also I think noraa needs to be considered as a candidate for mafia, though I need to do a reread to confirm.

ABR and VP are also making me nervous.

Spoiler:

I want you to know that I don't disagree and there's a reason I didn't hop on

[unwnd]

I don't believing in rushing days, my incessant walls and means of diplomacy was to only get you to start thinking about your own behavior and why some people would consider it scummy. I think ABR thinks different and believes that you shouldn't give people a chance, but I don't because even in the event of you being scum you're just gonna die with no other leads. Fortunately for you I don't think your wagon is just town sniffing out the scum early, I think there's probably one or two. My process has been determining how I feel about you and the equity of if (you) being scum that there were partners saving face or bussing. Right now I'm not 100% about that.

[unwnd]

Votecount 1.2

Datisi (1) : midwaybear

Iconeum (0)

Gamma Emerald (1) : unwnd

VP Baltar (1) : Noraa

petapan (0)

unwnd (1) : petapan

Shoshin (5) : Albert B. Rampage ; VP Baltar ; SirCakez ; Datisi ; Innocentvillager

Exe-2

SirCakez (0) :

DeasVail (0)

midwaybear (0)

Noraa (0) :

Albert B. Rampage (1) : Gamma Emerald

innocentvillager (0) :

Not Voting (3) : Iconeum ; Shoshin ; DeasVail

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to throw someone into a huge fucking pit, Deadline ends in (expired on 2020-12-05 10:59:51)

In terms of people voting now, I got gut town vibes from Cakez. Liked Dat's early stuff. No opinion of innocent. Concerned about VP more than ABR.

[unwnd]

The conversation of 'is there scum on Shoshin's wagon' is something I'd like to direct to everyone who passes by, because the obvious answer to me is yes

[unwnd]

Because ABR leads with conviction and VP only dabbles in it, and I think that form of dabbling is indecision that doesn't fit the way he's talked to people. It's like I said before when it came to Dat, to me it read like he was pushing his experience onto him and telling him he was wrong because of it.

[unwnd]

Noraa/Gamma as her scumbuddies? Too many other unknowns for me

I say if you're right let them try, just gives more spew

[unwnd]

Do not see ABR follying with a level zero lim as scum, especially with how antagonistic he was at the start

[unwnd]

If you believe in the competence of the town, then the rivaled consensus would be that it would look disgustingly bad for him if you flipped town. I don't believe he would waste his thread presence on someone he didn't deem as a threat to his own wincon

Voting ABR is a waste

[unwnd]

You know what ABR? Last time we played together I was scum and I stopped you: this time I'm gonna entertain your push because it's making me laugh

VOTE: Shoshin

[unwnd]

Why not do this before instead of when you're at L-1, You kept saying things like 'ill wait for DV/Ice before I solve' but you've got a mountain of content you're choosing to not see

Even then, Dv posted

Why do you hrsitate

[unwnd]

I stand with my position of ABR, he gets that thrill of lynching the scums

As scum he kinda just pretends its there, way more choosy in his battles

[unwnd]

Shoshin, I gave you an option to talk with about your ABR vote which is the only action you've done thus far this game. I gave you my stance on it and you didn't seem interested, you just dipped.

You have to have thoughts on people by now, or at least ones that weren't largely determined by

how they've interacted with you.

I told you before and I told you again, but there's only 3 scum in the room and you have more than 3 people voting you right now. Your wagon isn't made of a opposition who are just giving you a hard time. Who's scum? It shouldn't be a hard question

[unwnd]

I don't think scum just "whoops" hammers you here Shoshin, it'd certainly look terrible for them in the long run

You have time, lots of time. I just feel like you're biding it. At the very least, why did you decide ABR was the person you were going to vote out of everyone else who has contributed to your wagon? I again don't feel like this is a position he makes as scum.

[unwnd]

I think for some reason you believe that what is going on is a measure of good/bad play, but to me what's going on is relatively normal. The only thing that's happened is that the process of D1 has sped up, nothing more nothing less. Someone would get to L-1 eventually but the difference here is that there isn't a deadline forcing it. It just happens to be a lot of people who agree with pressuring you. I don't know why you keep mentioning time when time is on your side, and I'm pretty sure even ABR has said he just wants a claim for you and to hold off the hammer.

[unwnd]

ABR I trust you're not fakeclaiming just to get soshin lynched? I have leniency but not that much for drooling on the floor 'I cc' play

[unwnd]

OK yeah that doctor claim is incredibly awful. Doctors don't just claim other PRs

Jesus christ is this a newbie game

[unwnd]

Anyone with a semblance of competence would never ever, fakeclaim two roles

That's just been 101 for the longest time

[unwnd]

If you do it Noraa it's because you're still learning, but Shoshin claims to be experienced and powerful lol

[unwnd]

ABR I trust you're not fakeclaiming just to get soshin lynched? I have leniency but not that much for drooling on the floor 'I cc' play

This is still important to me, humor baby yoda

[unwnd]

I think it flips red

If not I'm just confused

Jesus don't fucking fakeclaim

[unwnd]

ABR I accept your reply as 100% responsibility

I just am not really a fan of the trend of fakeclaiming to get people lynched, but luckily for you Shoshin decided to also fakeclaim so it balances out

[unwnd]

I told you I fakeclaim as town. I didn't hide this fact.

This shouldn't be the fucking norm. Holy shit

I'm sorry for the flowery language but you're kidding me if this is what becomes standard. Let's just give scum more options in the future to wriggle out because it might be a town who's just fakeclaiming for lulz. Never never fucking fakeclaim! Lynch all Liars! It's all in the giant book of Mafia

[unwnd]

Please don't fakeclaim in the future, I don't care if you do it as town. The game doesn't revolve around you

I can never townread that ever in a million years

[unwnd]

Ok. I'll help you push this wagon thru. the resistance to this wagon is plenty and it gives me pause.

what resistance
it got to L-1 in less than 24 hours

Seriously. Not even a counter wagon. A bunch of players didn't even get to weigh in. A joke of a game.

You kept insulting people for thinking you were scum and saying how great you were

People were expecting this, therefore they thought you could handle the pressure

[unwnd]

midwaybear is scum btw

Hey I agree

[unwnd]

Shoshin, I still stand by my thoughts

Please don't fakeclaim
If the game is frustrating you, step back for a sec

[unwnd]

Shoshin, I still stand by my thoughts

Please don't fakeclaim
If the game is frustrating you, step back for a sec

I stand by mine. I was honest this game about everything. You let this happen. Don't just blame victim, maybe reevaluate what you did.

No lol

I would lynched you in ten different games for what you did. Do you really think you did nothing wrong? That you're just bein' honest and the town is horrible? It's D1. I'm not a victim here, my vote on you is the one I made

[unwnd]

Good job to peta/mwb

I had the latter pinned though, despite tilting myself out of the game with fakeclaim shenanigans