revO emaG - TENET

[Something_Smart]

Unwnd is town, though I'm probably late to that party.

[Something_Smart]

SS can i trust u?

You are able to, yes.

[Something_Smart]

bad setup spec fillerposting

How do you filler post when the game's only been open a few hours?

[Something_Smart]

Oh god I live in the lolhammer timeline

Get me out of here please

[Something_Smart]

@mod is it possible that there is a role/power that can gain access to the Purple Room separate from the public vote?

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this yesterday, though the subject seems to have been unceremoniously dropped.

Trying to get all the scum out of one timeline before N2 is almost certainly a fool's errand.

[Something_Smart]

97%, having seen his towngame twice and his scumgame twice (spectating illicit substances)

This sounds a lot like what morph said about him in Illicit though :/

[Something_Smart]

This post concerns me.

It concerns me, too.

[Something_Smart]

Is Noraa not super low-hanging fruit atm?

[Something_Smart]

Why are you interested in defending Noraa this way, rather, why do you believe Noraa to be LHF here?

Noraa is quite possibly the spammiest person in the history of the site. (She has the highest posts per day I've ever seen, by a factor of about 3.) To see her of all people complaining about spam... well, it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to think something's weird about that.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I'm defining LHF as someone who's very easy to scumread. It doesn't mean she isn't scum. But it means it doesn't make sense for peta to townread you for agreeing with him on that read.

[Something_Smart]

See this is why you are town, but I'm upset you took this here before I could draw S_S into more of this convo to see where they stood on that.

And now you can't?

What exactly did you want to find out?

[Something_Smart]

That's, uh, good to hear?

[Something_Smart]

You guys have scum openly interacting with each other right now like it's nbd

Elaborate?

[Something_Smart]

I see it. Unwnd has stated sb is scummy about four times and given a total of zero reasons.

[Something_Smart]

uwnd trying to corral people into voting sb9 then saying lld is suspect for doing so is scummy as fuck

Hard disagree

[Something_Smart]

Wait, Noraa's in a hydra. Minor +partner points to sinkhole/Annie for remembering that.

[Something_Smart]

Right now most of us over here think you have more scum over there.

Is this like, you think that IF it's 4/2 then ours is the 4? Or is it like, you think it's more likely to be 4/2 us than 3/3?

[Something_Smart]

You were coached by a better player, to attack me, because my response to these things is to hammer home on players like you.

This is quite tinfoily

[Something_Smart]

I think that anything other than 3-3 would be suboptimal wifom ploy.

Huh, why's this? 4/2 sounds like common sense to me. The risk of losing the 2 before the merge is minimal, and you get the advantage of having more control over the thread where there are more targets for town to hit.

[Something_Smart]

But the sudden behaviour change from this player reads to me like they were instructed to go on like this. It was really snap change, like they read a discord message that told them what to do and now they're popping off.

That's a possible explanation, sure. But it seems more likely that sb is just an erratic player. That fits with the last game I played with him, and it fits with how he's playing here.

[Something_Smart]

"everyone in my thread seems so towny" is a fairly scummy sentiment tbqh

I don't think so? To me it seems similar to "I have too many townreads", which is null leaning towny depending on the situation.

[Something_Smart]

fk you how am i supposed to know they're being sarcastic

Title indicating 1000+ posts and joindate, I guess. Though not everyone looks at those.

[Something_Smart]

Oh S_S why do I only have higher scum equity with Noraa and not gamma?

Because Noraa had posted on her main and had been discussed independently of her hydra, so it's a lot easier to forget she was on one.

[Something_Smart]

Who's S_S?

o/

[Something_Smart]

The great part about WIFOM is that as soon as you mention it nobody knows wtf you're doing

I mean that's not so great if you're town and want people to know what you're doing

[Something_Smart]

Does the erratic-ness vary based on alignment? Have you played with scum Superbowl?

I don't know him well enough to say that, but in general my experience with erratic people is that it's a personality thing more so than an alignment thing.

I haven't played with scum-him.

[Something_Smart]

She wouldn't even get to go to the dead thread though

[Something_Smart]

Oh I 10000% agree with the bolded. I thought people were clinging on too quickly to [redacted]'s idea and then they just started to roll with it due how weaker he was in general. I find that's a common tactic for scum to latch onto the ideas of those players because if it goes wrong they can inevitably blame them. Pooky pinged the shit out of me and then fucked off since, that would be my guess for over here. I think good players would choose 3-3 and then underdogs/people who cling to meta to be townread (cough cough shelly) would want to be in a thread with people who they could trick easily. I'm fine with believing it's 3-3 just so I don't get cocky.

You are allowed to talk about Sirius, lol.

[Something_Smart]

Peta that avi is going to take me a bit to get used to :X

[Something_Smart]

nottyhydra- i didn't like the way they assumed they would successfully be turnstiled, that seemed like not a real thought.

I don't follow, why would they fake that thought?

[Something_Smart]

So you're reading the other thread. Do you have any thoughts about it?

None that I haven't posted

I'm not spending too much time there for fear of accidentally posting in it.

[Something_Smart]

It seems like people want to talk about the thread we can’t post in or games that have already finish rather than play here? Am I crazy or are other people feeling this too? I guess ill just generate more content for you and dance like the puppet i am

It's almost as if those things are being discussed because of how they relate to this game...

[Something_Smart]

Readslists. Are. Not. Productive. Content.

Even. If. They're. Explained?

[Something_Smart]

nOrAa ScUm EqUiTy WiTh MuFfIn GoEs DoWn Bc MuFfIn IsN't In A hYdRa.

you joke but it's true

[Something_Smart]

Depends. On. The. Explanation.

I mean... I would imagine that any kind of explanation is productive, because if it's not sufficient to let people understand the read, it gives them something to engage the person on.

[Something_Smart]

Im not open wolfing, you dumbass

Uncalled for.

And openwolfing isn't necessarily scum indicative. I don't know you well enough to say if it is for you.

[Something_Smart]

well i'm just happy that others are seeing it now too

This post gives me the willies

[Something_Smart]

SS remember how i used to be really good at reading u like 2 years ago.

How did i do that

It used to be that I knew how to play town and didn't know how to play scum.

Now I don't know how to play either one.

[Something_Smart]

I thought open wolfing was a scum indicative term?

It is, generally. I'm being somewhat facetious in saying that people behaving in that way aren't nearly as likely to be scum as some people would like to think.

[Something_Smart]

oh, do go on

Maybe I've just been accustomed to gaslighted-skitter who had the whole game telling her that her most confident scumread was wrong. But this seems like not the attitude that I've seen you adopt toward scumreads usually (usually it's "I think this person is scum and I want other people to talk to me and help me figure it out" rather than "I think this person is scum and I want other people to see the same way I do and scumread them too").

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE: Turnstile superbowl

I like this

[Something_Smart]

How concerned are you that you aren't right?

[Something_Smart]

This entire bull Shit wagon on me is online right now and the coalition for reason is busy so I’m pretty much trying to argue it down solo while I wait for the rest of them while you all watch me get run up lmao

I resent that :X

[Something_Smart]

i'm willing to entertain the notion which is why i unvoted cuz i don't want to actually hammer them until i can actually talk to the bulge cuz that's what i'd need here to break out of this if i am

Why didn't you say this when you originally unvoted?

[Something_Smart]

Notsci, I went to bed early but then nightmares happened. And now I'm here and it appears another nightmare is happening WTF did you DO?!?

~TDB

I don't know which head the morph quote in my sig is from but it seems relevant here.

[Something_Smart]

Hey yall, legitimately we are at risk of turnstyling a corpse rn. Even if it's not me can we get a turnstyle wagon on someone else?

I don't think that's how turnstile works; doesn't it activate on majority and immediately send the person to the other thread?

[Something_Smart]

i thought that was obvious?

That you needed to talk to Bulge before executing them?

...nope, not obvious at all. It read like a generic "don't want the day to end unexpectedly" unvote.

[Something_Smart]

Yes, but if day ends before that whoever has the most goes right? We're just going to lose it at this rate

I think only the Purple Room works like that:

Clarifying some things that I have realized were not made clear in rules

-In the Inverted timestream, a multi-hammer is not possible. If someone attempts to unvote/hammer multiple players in one post, only the first vote will be counted.
-The Purple Room works by hammer or plurality. If it is hammered it is locked in. If not then whoever has the most votes will be the one to enter it, with ties being broken by who got that number of votes first.
-The Turnstiles must be hammered.

[Something_Smart]

I strongly disagree with ~the plan~ of trying to send scum to one timeline and town to the other. That will just end up making it harder to decide who to execute in both threads. There is not a realistic chance of getting all the scum out of one timeline before N2.

[Something_Smart]

other side vote noraa noraa is scum

w h y

[Something_Smart]

I'm also not a fan of the something smart hydra.

oh

now I understand that comment about me/Brian having -partner equity

hello brian skies I am not a hydra I am a SINGLE PERSON nice to meet you !

[Something_Smart]

By this, I actually meant upside down sinkhole. And it was because they not only posted in the wrong thread to start (mod deleted their posts), but they were dumbtelling in the other game to start.

Idk why I said something smart. Lmao.

Oh lol

[Something_Smart]

Am I reading right that the notsci hydra is L-1?

Wtf is going on over there

~skitter~ is going on

[Something_Smart]

It just occurred to me that the turnstile mechanic is the mafia equivalent of Two Rooms and a Boom.

[Something_Smart]

What are your thoughts about that?

I have already said that it makes me nervous.

It makes me even more nervous after reading what Nacho thinks about Annie and Noraa.

[Something_Smart]

Also, we are in lolhammer timeline, so early wagons are kinda really bad.

[Something_Smart]

I feel like executing skitter day 1 is just a bad idea even if she's super scummy (which she isn't).

Even if we do get a chance to hear from her six days down the line.

[Something_Smart]

The fact that i immediately thereafter asked abt bulge is what made it obvious to me, i didnt want hammer till i could talk to him:

I guess... it seemed like you cited specifically not wanting the day to end as the reason you unvoted, and then after making that decision decided to talk to Bulge.

If you can't tell, I'm bringing this up because it feels like you retroactively changed your story. Doesn't mean you did; you could have just been unclear, or maybe you did and you're still town. But it's the impression I got.

I think this is a bizarre af take given pyp and how i p clearly felt abt how the lilith wagon playes out

What part of it is bizarre? Even when you were hard pushing lilith, I felt like you were open to hearing other people's perspectives and engaging with them.

I also dont entirely understand how you're reading me just now, i was under the impression that you scumread me?

I'm reading you as very lightly nullscum. But it's entirely possible for me to have a strong scumread on you and still not want you executed today.

[Something_Smart]

Who do you want to turnstile?

idk, I think superbowl is a pretty reasonable option.

Firebringer and sinkhole are also reasonable options.

[Something_Smart]

You remember how i also repeatedly kept telling mena that i'd get to say i told you so? That's apparently a p big motivating factor

I actually read that as kind of a lighthearted way to compromise-- along the lines of "well it seems like I'm not getting my lilith execution, but if she does end up being scum then I told you so".

Is that not how you meant it?

[Something_Smart]

Well kinda lighthearted but also as a way to acknowledge that i was right. The post that pinged you is like coming from the same place in my mind

But you don't yet know if you're right... the whole point of the "I told you so" was that it was contingent on you actually being right.

[Something_Smart]

Surely there is nothing wrong with thinking you are right.

But you can still care more about working with other people and solving, or you can care more about getting people to agree with your viewpoint because it's your viewpoint.

[Something_Smart]

i'm sorry but this is still really scummy from noraa

Bravado is scummy...?

[Something_Smart]

Why's that?

[Something_Smart]

basically all the people that were on notsci's wagon + all the lurkers/not talking peoples. Great sorting skills y'all have.

Am I a lurker to you??

[Something_Smart]

This game is filled with total hypocrites that don't try to understand why I do what I do.

I don't really see you doing that either...

[Something_Smart]

I am currently zero pages behind.

[Something_Smart]

ok tell me what you would've done if everyone ganged up on u after ur 5th post for no reason.

I'm a determinist, so I believe that everything happens for a reason.

[Something_Smart]

But I also like haven't been behind for most of the game so if that's the impression you have of me you probably just haven't been reading my posts?

[Something_Smart]

do you have any insights to share with us yet

You mean like reads?

[Something_Smart]

I think LLD, peta, FB, you guys are town. I'll trust FB on sinkhole being town. Superbowl is > rand town.

[Something_Smart]

I'm insulted.

ngl your avatar is so nondescript it is hard to read your posts

it sounds silly but it is a non-negligible factor

[Something_Smart]

now i am curious, SS why do u trust my nora read?

you are very good at reading people you know, especially spammy/emotional ones who I find hard to read.

[Something_Smart]

What if Firebringer was scum?

Then he likely wouldn't stick out his neck to hard defend you, because the scumteam would probably consider you a lost cause.

[Something_Smart]

ur saying I'm scum?

My point is if he's scum then he wouldn't act this way toward you if you were also scum.

[Something_Smart]

This was our first avatar. would it suffice for now?

That would be better yes. I'm sorry, but I use mafblack and your current one really blends in.

[Something_Smart]

my question was would scum!him do this to town!me.

I don't see why not. Though, I townread him independent of his read on you.

[Something_Smart]

Flavor Leaf replaces Uncrowned!

my mind simultaneously went

oh NO

and

oh YES

this can't be good

[Something_Smart]

I also keep reading Annie's posts as though they are coming from FL so this is gonna be a bit weird

[Something_Smart]

It's probably for a different reason, though. (Their name and avi both remind me of FL's alt April Ludgate at a glance.)

[Something_Smart]

I think OMGUS is kind of the natural thing to do in Noraa's spot?

[Something_Smart]

yes, as brian pointed out if no scum exist in one thread by night 2 we get a whole thread confirmed town.
That is important.

I disagree. That possibility seems super remote.

[Something_Smart]

you know you shouldn't be asking this

Well, I assume the intent was "was Annie sent BECAUSE they claimed a power role", to which the answer is no.

[Something_Smart]

Im sorry for making this game miserable for everyone and I should go to the dead thread for making this game toxic.

You can't go to the dead thread lol

also please stop self-voting

[Something_Smart]

I don't like that this is the one post SS feels inclined to make in the past X pages

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Something_Smart]

something clicked

What did I click on?

[Something_Smart]

I was legit scared of something smart at times on D1 in illicit and I thought he was effectively picking at everything that was even slightly inconsistent or suspciously not-scumhunty of me in that game

Sounds like an anomaly to me

I don't recall particularly needling you, though I probably did it innocuously. But it's pretty dependent on the state of the game.

[Something_Smart]

For the record bork, I think using one-game meta from a much different game where you were scum and I died N1 is tenuous at best. If you're serious about meta, I just had a scumgame end. Though I haven't done much yet, there are differences.

[Something_Smart]

i don't disagree; just trying to show where my head is at when i hear "low content from SS is NAI" from others because I explicitly did not think that in that game

I don't feel like I'm especially low-content this game.

I'm definitely low-impact, but that has as much to do with the people around me.

[Something_Smart]

At this point in Illicit, I had fewer posts than I do now. Skimming my ISO there, I feel like my fluff:content ratio was about the same. I'm pretty sure I've shared more reads here than I had by this point there.

By what metric are you saying I'm low-content?

[Something_Smart]

If you want to talk about any reads you disagree with, I'm definitely willing. Most of my reads aren't really based on any specific thing, but just that I feel the people are pretty transparently facilitating solving in ways that don't feel agenda-based.

[Something_Smart]

Really nai for him

I don't think it is? I'm definitely more able to get into the weeds on stuff as town, and my scumgame is basically just treading water.

I just don't think it's an accurate characterization of my play this game.

[Something_Smart]

@SS - think I'm way off this game or partially off?

I think it'd be unsurprising for you to not have a good handle on the game. But also, I feel like your lines of thought are going to be productive, even if they aren't correct.

I feel similarly to you about skitter, except the conflict's internal. She feels so off but if I give town-skitter space then she very well may obvtown and/or solve the damn game.

[Something_Smart]

Eh, I guess my play looks different from the outside. I don't feel like I'm hanging back in the same way that I was in PYP, but I obviously have a leg up in understanding my own behavior.

[Something_Smart]

Mod spec, I think 2703 in other thread confirms boon as town

?

[Something_Smart]

did he say this?
If yes, holy fuck that's scummy considering he's literally SRing every single person that is a possible lim today.

Being inconsistent isn't scummy, especially for Flavor "harebrained conspiracy theory king" Leaf.

[Something_Smart]

i think writing it off as "FL being FL" is how he gets away with doing scummy stuff

well yeah but that's true no matter his alignment. If he didn't pull these kind of antics as town, we wouldn't write it off that way.

[Something_Smart]

I would also like to mention that I don't think Gamma is Jesus despite my section titles

Well played, sir.

But, Gamma's also a BG claim. If we leave them alive, they might get a chance to die to save someone, just like-- well, you know...

[Something_Smart]

Also if flavor has gaslit anyone into believing he is consensus town ATP this is their reality check

If FL is consensus town he is scum. Almost without exception.

[Something_Smart]

He claimed this timestream but i wouldnt be surprised if he misread/mispoke and it was the other one, and i would consider it +town if that happened

Skitter.

What are you even doing.

[Something_Smart]

I agree that if he had claimed to misread it would have been towny but well not anymore .-.

[Something_Smart]

Skitter is like actually scum, SS.

Tell me why this read is different from your morph read in Illicit.

[Something_Smart]

I wish people called out appeals to authority as much as they did appeals to emotion on this site

Appeal to authority is tricky because it's often not a fallacy.

[Something_Smart]

im pretty sure it is always a fallacy. just because something is correct doesn't make it not a fallacy

Well, the fallacy is to say that the authority is always right. It's not a fallacy to say that an authority on a topic is more likely to be right about that topic than a non-authority.

[Something_Smart]

Do you have a legit bead on FL at this point?

I think he's town for the moment. I don't feel like he's trying to control the game (because if he were, he'd be doing a much better job of it than this).

[Something_Smart]

Gamma

Please calm down

[Something_Smart]

i can only check odd nights

FL, are you thinking what I'm thinking?

[Something_Smart]

Fwiw I'm somewhat down on FL after his recent posting, I agree with superbowl that it's how he would act as scum to gain control of the game after a strong start.

Jury's still out though, and will be for several days in all likelihood.

[Something_Smart]

this is a beautiful scumthing smart post.

Not saying I think you're scum, i wanna town read you, but like if you do end up being scum, this is a really good post.

If it's a good post from scum-me, that would make it town indicative, no?

(And I think it probably is town indicative, because I've found I get into trouble as scum as soon as I start expressing negative opinions. In my recent scum game I was fine until D4 when I tried to mis-exe Menalque and got flashwagoned almost to death.)

[Something_Smart]

When there was the mod error last night r.e. second turnstile, and i was once again softing heavily, the number of scumreads on me in your thread suddenly went from 1 (titus) to 3 (titus, unwnd, hp). The uptick wasnt natural, and it was reading to me like scum realized they needed fo start putting in the legwork to make me perceived as scummy in *that* thread (i.e. as opposed to here)

No offense but this seems like a much higher level of thought than most people put into their reads as scum, and I think two new people scumreading you around the same time could easily be a coincidence.

[Something_Smart]

The number of scumreads on me isnt natural

I'm not so sure about that. If I'm inclined to scumread you on D1, then something's definitely up. :/

[Something_Smart]

But ok lets rewind why are you scumreading me again?

You feel like you're trying to sway people over working with them. You have a couple of times where I feel like you're posting stuff that doesn't make sense (most notably the post about Gamma retracting that I called out). And when you pushed lilith in PYP I really felt a combination of confidence and fear that you would be ignored (while also trying to keep yourself from tunneling) and I really don't see any of that nuance in your reads here.

[Something_Smart]

"Why do you guys let Flavor do this?!?"

"Oh, that's why. Bark bark"

This makes me think more likely town-FL if town-skitter

[Something_Smart]

what's about me retracting something?

Skitter made a post about how if you retracted your claim and said you were actually BG in the other timeline, then that would be towny. Before you confirmed your claim. It was an incredibly dumb post.

[Something_Smart]

Something Smart also saw scum stuff there, so it must be true.

Gonna drop a big fat nope on that one.

[Something_Smart]

Didn't you say green skitter was green flavor too? Or was that someone else

I said this.

[Something_Smart]

Skitter and FL are town.

Was I too late?

[Something_Smart]

Of course it's town.

[Something_Smart]

Also, Imperium wanted our side to NOT turnstile anyone today. And wanted A50 turnstiled to this thread.

This isn't possible, is it? Didn't we turnstile first?

[Something_Smart]

vla for a bit, covid exposure and i'm a bit sick

Feel better skitter

[Something_Smart]

Pooky is scum or massively overconfident in his abilities.

The people scumreading him are, I think, giving him too much credit.

[Something_Smart]

personality and complete playstyle change, overplayed ego, etc.

He's done this shit as town before.

[Something_Smart]

No, I know that. I am hoping its scum theatre arrogance in the hopes town u doesn't really play like that.

sadly, he does (do not click link if you value your sanity)

[Something_Smart]

Probably. If I remember correctly, I wanted to townread him there at some points but I knew that if he was town we would definitely lose.

But it's the same type of thing.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah that kill was bizarre.

[Something_Smart]

leaving flavor leaf alive is bad for the town. I would never push FL if I'm a red role, I just suck up to his giant ego and let him murder townies left and right for me.

I believe this.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think killing Noraa-slot is really what I would call low info.

Killing a newly-replaced-in secret alt who's a potential wildcard, maybe.

[Something_Smart]

Or maybe they thought the replace-out spewed the slot as town.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I think I agree. If it was a scum kill, scum think they're in a good spot.

Since the two people receiving the most pressure are now both decent townreads for me, that interpretation is pretty plausible.

[Something_Smart]

When bork and I saw the reverse NK, we figured scum wanted to paint this picture.

I mean, if that's why you made the NK, well I would welcome your elaboration

Otherwise, that theory seems like a bolt from the blue. Why would killing Tenet, whose death could be explained any number of ways, work for this purpose better than killing someone like me? (That aside from the fact that kills of this nature are pretty rare in my experience.)

[Something_Smart]

alternately pooky killed it because he thought it was hectic

Or anyone else who knows Hectic did that? Why Pooky specifically?

[Something_Smart]

who were you replying to here?

Skitter

[Something_Smart]

The ones in the other thread need to specify the widely-town-read players they think are scum if they're going with the narrative that the replacement was killed because scum are town read in there

@Something_Smart, Firebringer, etc.

This is a fallacy. I don't need to put forth an alternative theory in order to doubt an existing one.

Plus, my theory is less that scum are townread and more that town are scumread. I'm not really even aware of who's widely townread in here.

[Something_Smart]

Also, there could be as few as one scum in this timestream. So there's that.

[Something_Smart]

Anyways, I felt that Flavor Leaf was getting a bit desperate which is why I started getting distrustful of him.

Weird considering that's a massive towntell for him

But I guess I can chalk that up to lack of experience with him?

[Something_Smart]

If there was one scum, wouldn't it be more likely for a townread player to be killed?

I mean only insomuch as it's always more likely for a townread player to be killed.

[Something_Smart]

what he did yesterday is entirely in line with his self-described MO as scum, so, no, not giving him too much credit. that he can play like this as town isn't going to make me discount the possibility of him doing it as scum, and as imperium said, it's a matter of how lethargic and useless he was in the forward timestream relative to how aggressively he took control after sending himself over here.

I mean you have to weigh the likelihood of him doing it as scum against the likelihood of him doing it as town. Even if he would do something as scum 100% of the time, if he'd also do it 90% of the time as town then it doesn't really count for much.

[Something_Smart]

You're also voting my strongest townread, so there's that.

That's gotta be town indicative, no?

[Something_Smart]

While I generally agree with your feelings I’m confused why you felt the rep-out spewed Noraa-town, that actually gave me pause on my read

I don't think that? I was speculating that maybe scum did.

[Something_Smart]

No, that isn't how it works. Cakez clarified in the other thread.

[Something_Smart]

we still learn things from it

What things, or are these the kind of things that only exist if you don't talk about them?

[Something_Smart]

I am retracting my cop claim.

Shocker

[Something_Smart]

We decided to push skitter because we feel like if she and pooky are both scum, she's a stronger scum PR than he is.

Very likely, but that seems like an odd thing to be making this decision.

[Something_Smart]

What is Brian's claim?

[Something_Smart]

I see. I don't follow why HP thinks that's so strong.

[Something_Smart]

They flip sides.

They both "hit the button" and swap.

Why not share this before superbowl was purplehammered?

[Something_Smart]

i also kinda dislike the whole notion that this was decided by {whoever was in the purple room last night} and thus got pushed today without most of everyone knowing what's actually happening

Man, you would have loved playing in MBOS 10.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, surely that was a strongman shot.

[Something_Smart]

Does he ever lurk this hard as town?

I would be surprised if he never did.

[Something_Smart]

ss: this could easily be scum and i don't know why no one is considering him

I don't think there's evidence that nobody is considering me. Not many people have mentioned a read on me, and most who did put me somewhere in the nulltown zone iirc.

[Something_Smart]

With out going back and looking, name three reads of either type (townreads or scumreads) Pooky has expressed today. Can you of the cusp? I sure as hell can't.

Can you do this for my reads?

[Something_Smart]

Ohai A50

[Something_Smart]

I had a dream that Gamma gladiated FL and the mod locked the thread and then unlocked it when he realized that FL was already dead.

[Something_Smart]

Did you ever talk about the peta read?

[Something_Smart]

Interesting that you say that while also pointing out that very few people are paying attention to me.

[Something_Smart]

How could that possibly ping? Which head is this?

[Something_Smart]

It's self-deprecating, and it's drawing special attention to the way I'm being perceived. Is that not in line with my town play in your opinion (which I would definitely disagree with), or is it a general tell unrelated to meta? (In the latter case: what's the tell?)

[Something_Smart]

It wasn't sarcastic; it was an honest question. It's maybe nitpicky, but I wasn't trying to nitpick per se-- it's just what came to mind.

[Something_Smart]

I have a hard time buying the phrase "honest question" applies to that post when it was both worded in a snarky way and one question mark short of being a question.

I'm sorry. Honest implied question. Snark doesn't imply dishonesty; they don't even seem correlated to me.

[Something_Smart]

Ceph, the reason I brought it up was because you seemed to imply that you thought charismatic people were getting a pass because they were charismatic, rather than because they were being towny. Is that accurate?

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE: skitter

[Something_Smart]

ss why are you voting me ?

Your progression on me is baffling for how well you know me. I don't scumread you per se but I want to know what changed from when you said I was towny.

[Something_Smart]

again i feel like i'm repeating myself a lot, as i wrote a bunch abt this a few days ago ...

but again: you're looking a lot like pyp. i can give it a pass for like a phase, maybe two, but we're starting to get into 'scum!you making a lot of observations without really doing anything territory', and i feel like i'd have a better sense for what town!you is thinking; i have no idea what your reads are or what you want to happen today and i find it troubling. and that coupled with the fact that i'm p sure i'm approaching the day wrong and that my reads aren't super on point made me decide to vote you so that i can start picking at this mess from another angle.

So... what changed, then? Surely you saying I was towny before was more than just "giving me a pass".

[Something_Smart]

it's the sort of read that erodes with time. there was some townvibes way back when (before you ask, no, i don't remember them offhand) but it's basically dissipated - it's the sort of read that needs to be maintained by you doing townie things and you just, well, haven't .

The concept of a read that erodes with time doesn't really make sense to me... I feel like it hides a deeper reason. If the reason is just that everyone else has done towny things, that's fine. But I worry that it's just you attributing less strength to your past reasons because you can't remember them anymore.

do you think i should be townreading you now?

Given that you were townreading me before, yes. I don't think that read should have dissipated the way it did.

[Something_Smart]

i also meant more: given what you've done thus far this game, do you think i should be townreading you at this juncture?

Maybe? I don't know exactly how your brain works wrt reading me. I think if not for PYP, you probably would have been. It's hard to tell if you would correct for PYP accurately (by no longer townreading things that aren't really towny) or inaccurately (by no longer townreading things that are towny overall but that I happened to do that game, or that I did differently and you failed to notice the difference).

[Something_Smart]

so i'm not following what part of my read/current approach is confusing?

The confusing part is just that your read felt solid enough that it wouldn't disappear by now, especially taking into account that it's the holidays and my activity is quite low.

Also, the timing of your vote felt kind of random. I wasn't really receiving much pressure, and you seemed lukewarm on me and mostly willing to vote me as a compromise, so why vote now instead of waiting to see if a wagon develops?

[Something_Smart]

That's kind of the name of the game on compromising right? If you actually wanted to push me then why not make an argument for why I'm scum or something?

[Something_Smart]

i'm not trying to push you? where di you get that idea from?

I know you're not. I'm asking why you're not trying to push me, because if you aren't, then I don't really understand why you voted me.

[Something_Smart]

just read his day 2 iso and it's fucking terrible lmao

And?

[Something_Smart]

Someone want to fill me in on the Bell thing?

[Something_Smart]

Thanks.

[Something_Smart]

I could read 184 pages or you could write two sentences for me.

Nah, definitely not worth your time.

[Something_Smart]

Why don't you want me to participate in the game more if I'm town?

[Something_Smart]

every time he posts i'm like, "THAT'S the thing you want to focus on right now? what the fuck?"

You're more than welcome to ask my opinion on anything you like, if your problem is that you don't know where I stand on some important things.

If you think my choice of what to respond to is alignment indicative, well why do you think I'd choose different things to respond to as scum than I would as town?

[Something_Smart]

of course i think that. town are interested in scumhunting. scum are interested in not looking like scum.

So why am I not making an effort to appear to scumhunt, which by your own definition would make me look like town?

[Something_Smart]

I'm still not sure exactly what's going on with Bell because nobody's given me a summary. But his phone randomly capitalizes words and he doesn't capitalize words to crumb, so I don't see what the problem is.

[Something_Smart]

Also, there's no point in crumbing even-night doctor in case you have to cover your ass in explaining why the IC died when the fact that the scum shot the IC N1 already makes it obvious they have a strongman.

[Something_Smart]

How confident are you?

Please don't exaggerate.

[Something_Smart]

The question goes for peta and ceph, as well.

[Something_Smart]

Very well.
UNVOTE: LLD

[Something_Smart]

once again we arrive at "we can never lim anyone because if they were scum they would simply play better," and i refuse to engage with such a dumb argument.

You're leaving out an essential part.

We can never lim anyone

simply because they are playing badly

because if they were scum they would simply play better.

[Something_Smart]

i'm never confident lmao
i can't just sit on my hands until the end of time so i go with my best guess

Would it help if I made a readlist?

[Something_Smart]

I'm very bad at scumhunting. There's a reason I don't do it more often.

[Something_Smart]

I townread LLD. So, good call.

[Something_Smart]

I usually can't produce a scumread I believe in at this point in the game. Surely that fact can't mean that my role PM's always turn up red.

[Something_Smart]

For clarity: I voted LLD because she dodged my question of "how confident are you that I'm scum?" by responding "I'm 100% confident you deserve to die." Victim blaming aside, this is just an awful and disingenuous way to approach a scumread.

[Something_Smart]

Like scum!SS doesn't really do white-knighting?

I do. For a long time that was pretty much the only trick in my scum book.

Have you played with scum-me aside from PYP? (Because in PYP you replaced in when I was already in damage control mode.)

[Something_Smart]

Victim blaming is... Not an okay word to use in this setting or circumstance and I am gonna...dip for a bit

Sorry if my use of the phrase upsets you. I'll rephrase it.

I don't like when people mis-execute someone and then blame them for getting mis-executed. In rare cases it is justified, but usually it is just a tactic to avoid taking responsibility for being wrong (if town)/pushing a mis-execution (if scum).

If you say someone is scummy, and they were town, then that was you being wrong. (Which is fine. No one's right all the time.) Not them failing to perform to your expectations.

[Something_Smart]

Why do you think scum shoot at the IC N1 with no strongman? They're just crossing their fingers that there's no protective?

[Something_Smart]

Will you at least accept the meta claim that he has randomly capitalized words in past games and it has (to my knowledge) never been for crumbing purposes?

[Something_Smart]

ss have you seen titus' post directed at you or are you just defending bell for fun

I mean I'm defending Bell because I think he's probably town and regardless it isn't a good idea to kill him now.

I have not seen Titus's post. I'll look at it now.

[Something_Smart]

Ah ok. I confirm that Titus & I are neighbors who become lovers if we are in the same timestream. I don't agree with her that this implies doc. I think the IC NK implies strongman, which implies doc.

I think she's probably town from setup spec; it doesn't make an awful lot of sense for this role to be T/S.

[Something_Smart]

I would imagine the answer is "probably nothing."

[Something_Smart]

Peta:

How confident are you [in me being scum]?

Please don't exaggerate.

[Something_Smart]

Is there anything in particular you'd like to see from me?

[Something_Smart]

i'm so fucking lost

like tbh all these claims are so confusing, i'll just ignore them while things aren't clear

does anyone still disagree with town!bell rn?

hey ceph now I have a scumread. are you proud of me?

[Something_Smart]

My biggest scumread would be S_S

Why?

[Something_Smart]

i did ask you for your reads last night, which i believe you ignored

My bad.

They're something along the lines of

(Town) Dandelion, peta
Pooky, GFITAC, Fire, LLD
Skitter, Deacon
pisskop, midwaybear, sb9, A50 (Null)

[Something_Smart]

the whole bottom row is null, not scum, right?

yes

why is sb9 so low?

off the top of my head I can't really remember anything they've done. I could be easily sold on sb town if you point to a few posts you like.

and why are you townreading peta

old read. I thought his early game was incisive and conducive to solving and he's maintained that throughout the game. He doesn't seem to care much about burning bridges either.

and fire

Honestly because (a) Fire is doing stuff and (b) it seems to be useful stuff. His interactions with me were in line with how they usually are when he's town and I don't think he would feel the need to be defending me so strongly as scum.

and gamma?

BG claim. At the very least, worth tabling for a while.