Mini 644 - Meerkat Manor Mafia (Game Over!)

[ClockworkRuse]

/confirm.

[ClockworkRuse]

Arbitrary Vote: curiouskarmadog

For the reason that 'The Screamer' scares me. D:

[ClockworkRuse]

Same posting time? Scummy.

[ClockworkRuse]

'Just happened?' 'Coincidental? 'Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?' Perhaps.

Or major scum tell.

[ClockworkRuse]

vote:strangecougar

Happy

No, I am not. What made you feel that it was acceptable to put Coug at L-4 on page two?

FoS on you

unvote

I think strangers vote on himself was takin out of context. Had it been later in the game, I would find it weird (especially if he was one of those stupid people that hammer themselves) but it was during random voting stage and it was probably just bad humor.

Vote mafiamann

for originally saying he would vote clock, then once muffinhead says "not voting in rv stage can be a scumtell" you vote strangercoug instead with no real reason (jokewise or serious) other then to apparently make muffin "happy"

And this is enough to put Mafiamann at L-3 on the second page?

FoS for you

Unvote

Arbitrary voting stage is over now.


I'm going to take a wild guess that the scum is on one of these wagons. I see no reason that anyone should be at L-4 or L-3 yet at all. We've barely started discussion and already someone is close to being lynched if any votes change.

The town always seems to let the self-voter go.

Thats because from a win condition POV, self-voting is going against your win condition if you're scum. However, its also a counter-productive "method" if you're town because it focuses the discussion on yourself (presumedly you know yourself that your town), rather than legitimate scumhunting. I.E. right now, a number of people are FoS-ing or Voting because Coug self-voted. If he is town, he brought it on himself and is distracting us from actually finding scum. If he's scum, he's using the "Why would I vote for myself if I were scum WIFOM". I don't buy the "it sparks discussion" because the discussion is always about the person who self-voted, and it nullifies any suspisions based on people jumping on the self-voters bandwagon. Without the self vote, maybe we could have caught a scum jumping on or pushing a

real

bandwagon, rather than a fabricated one.

Summary: If you're scum, its a WIFOM. If your town, there is absolutely nothing about self-voting that is pro-town.

unvote, vote: strangercoug

...

...because ecto's previous post was the best explanation I've ever seen for why a random stage self-voter needs to be pressured.

I disagree, you can gauge quite a bit by a self vote in the random stage. Reactions for starters. I feel really uncomfortable about this wagon for the simple fact that it snowballed way to fast, it hasn't even been a full page in the making honestly. That said;

I do not think a third vote indicates scum. Especially as you put the first vote on yourself.

This is not true. I put the second, not the first, vote on myself.

Does not help his case at all. This offers nothing to the town other than us knowing that he is here.


That said, I am going to give a

FoS

to Coug for unhelpful posts after his self-vote and vote jumping.


@Mafia, Why did you vote Coug if you said you would vote me?

[ClockworkRuse]

Unvote

The strangecougar bandwagon took off to fast with to little substance to not be scum driven.

You realize of course that you were on this wagon. Please answer my question in my last post. What was your justification for voting Coug?

[ClockworkRuse]

it was arandom vote i didnt mean to make a wagon

You didn't make a wagon, you jumped onto one.

You said that if you had to make a random vote that you would vote me, then when asked why you didn't vote but rather said who you would vote for you voted Coug instead to appease whoever was asking you why you were voting.

That is what I am asking you to explain. Why Coug instead of me when you said that if you had to vote you would vote me?

[ClockworkRuse]

I dont like this post. What have you got against people being at L-3 and L-4? its not as if there in a dangerous position. I really doubt scum would be dumb enough to put more votes on coug or mafiamann for the sack of trying to lycnh them. Cause then it outs them as scum tomorrow. You seem way to concerned.
Thats why I will

unvote, vote clock

I also dont like the fact that coug is voting for people because they voted for him.

Still dont like mafiamann either, hasnt made an improvement in my books.

It's not that I'm against people being at L-3 or L-4, it's that I'm against people being at those numbers on the second/third page for little reason. Quicklynch wagons were starting and I didn't like it one bit.

What made you feel that it was acceptable to put Coug at L-4 on page two?

And this is enough to put Mafiamann at L-3 on the second page?

FoS for you

these are ridiculous questions, that are designed to make you look more townie. Actually what does it matter if someone is at -3 or -4 on page two? Information is being gathered..pressure is being put forth...how else do you find out information?...

vote clock...

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

I couldnt speel your name

I'm sorry, but that is just a really bad excuse. For someone with 210 posts in the forum, I can imagine you now you could just say Vote: Clock or something like that. I think you jumped onto that wagon knowing what you were doing and now you can't really come up with an excuse for why you did.

HoS

MafiaMann[/b]

[ClockworkRuse]

Muffinhead gives me a bad vibe for some reason. I don't like his meta-defense of stranger.

Why not?

Why should anyone besides yourself be defending you.

@Cass, please show how I was panicking? I admit that I don't like anyone having L-3 or L-4 on the second page but I don't see how I was panicking over the votes on someone else. And I'm not throwing suspicion around at all yet, as I'm suspicious of everyone from the start. When I really start to get suspicious of someone, you'll notice it.

[ClockworkRuse]

Well, perhaps not panicking, but you sounded like you thought it was a pretty big thing, and seriously scummy. Considering the lack of actual threat - I fail to see what you are/were scared of. Mentioning quicklynch when there really wasn't any threat of that seems panicky (or phobic? let's discuss the subtleties of the English language some more!).

I do feel that it is a slightly big thing, as anything that sparks out of it is what we have to go off for now.

@Coug, you said that you were looking for reactions from your self-vote, what kind of reactions did you find?

[ClockworkRuse]

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

-4 is hardly close to quick lynch potential...if I meta you, will I find you jumping on a wagon on page 2 or 3?

Out of the... nine

games I've played, I haven't seen a wagon build that fast. But you would find it at least once, that I know for sure.

[ClockworkRuse]

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

-4 is hardly close to quick lynch potential...if I meta you, will I find you jumping on a wagon on page 2 or 3?

Out of the... nine

games I've played, I haven't seen a wagon build that fast. But you would find it at least once, that I know for sure.

Well clock I was in a game not long ago where a townie was on L-1 on the first page. I believe you get the most information when a player is on L-1 because thats when you find out whther there town or scum due to the way they respond. My point being that L-3 isnt a dagnerous position whatsoever and I encourage wagons cause they get information out of players.

@clock- who do you think is scum at this stage in the game?

I think it's just a little extreme.

Who do I think is scum?

Mafia is on my list of suspects, he's been taking the path of least resistance, jumping onto an unnecessary wagon, going against what he has told the town what he was going to do while using a very bad defense for it. I just don't buy it.

[ClockworkRuse]

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

It's not that you put him at L-4. It's that you told the town you would do one thing then went against it with ridiculous reasoning. It's that you were jumping onto a wagon without posting any reason and when asked why you did you simply say;
"I couldn't spell CLOCK."

[ClockworkRuse]

Mafiamann did vote though, that's why I'm pressuring him.

He voted for Coug after he said that he would random me. Please read back.

He unvoted after he was called out on it.

I thought I was already doing this, but

Vote: MafiaMann

. Something is just off about him.

[ClockworkRuse]

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

It's not that you put him at L-4. It's that you told the town you would do one thing then went against it with ridiculous reasoning. It's that you were jumping onto a wagon without posting any reason and when asked why you did you simply say;
"I couldn't spell CLOCK."

Its a random vote i shouldnt have even answered at all it dosent matter why do you care.

Because you told the town what you were going to do, but instead of doing that you took a very opportunistic vote. When asked about it you panicked and now you are getting overly defensive.

Your reaction to two votes is strange and you've had a bad excuse for why you didn't vote me when you said you would.

Mafia, who are you suspicious of?

[ClockworkRuse]

Okay, look;

im to lazy to random vote but if i did random vote id vote clock

vote mafiamann

, because not voting in the rv stage can be a scumtell. Therefore this is no random vote.

Editted for length and the rest of the post doesn't apply much to anything.

vote:strangecougar

Happy

First of all, this is appeasement. You are only motivated to vote because someone said that not voting in the arbitrary stage is scummy. (I don't honestly agree with that but whatever.)

Second, you go against what you said at first. You obviously could have voted me easily. I wouldn't have made a big deal about it, but you didn't. Instead you joined the SC wagon.

Unvote

The strangecougar bandwagon took off to fast with to little substance to not be scum driven.

As soon as I put some suspicion on you, you unvote. [Check my post 58 for my suspicion and this is his post 59]

it was arandom vote i didnt mean to make a wagon

You didn't make a wagon, you jumped onto one.

You said that if you had to make a random vote that you would vote me, then when asked why you didn't vote but rather said who you would vote for you voted Coug instead to appease whoever was asking you why you were voting.

That is what I am asking you to explain. Why Coug instead of me when you said that if you had to vote you would vote me?

I couldnt speel your name

This defense in it's self is just weak and is just.... absurd. Like I've said already, someone who had 210 posts at the time of that post should know that you could have shortened my name. And at the very least you could have looked up to my name earlier. This is no justification for your vote of Coug. It was not random, you did jump on that wagon to push the random in my opinion.


The next two or three points have already been taken into account above this. They are the case I made against him at first and his answer to who he thought was scummy. I think I'd actually like to bring that up;

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

It's not that you put him at L-4. It's that you told the town you would do one thing then went against it with ridiculous reasoning. It's that you were jumping onto a wagon without posting any reason and when asked why you did you simply say;
"I couldn't spell CLOCK."

Its a random vote i shouldnt have even answered at all it dosent matter why do you care.

Because you told the town what you were going to do, but instead of doing that you took a very opportunistic vote. When asked about it you panicked and now you are getting overly defensive.

Your reaction to two votes is strange and you've had a bad excuse for why you didn't vote me when you said you would.

Mafia, who are you suspicious of?

Im suspicous of you for panicking when people called you out when you were asking unneeded questions. Im confused as to why my vote is oppurtunistic. I wasnt aware i didnt need to spell the name exactly a game i was in recently my vote didnt count because i spelled the name wrong. Why are you making a bigger deal over this than need be.

First of all, if I read through your games will I find this vote? Second, I'd like everyone to look back a page or two to Karma and Muffin calling out my questions about the wagons. This is the same argument they presented. To me, Mafiamann is parroting their suspicion without adding any new content to it.

I still dont understand why my vote mattered but i never intended to lynch cougar. It was a random vote why does it matter that i didnt vote clock. I was the first off the cougar wagon. I wasnt going after anyone there is a difference between a vote to get someone lynched and a random vote. Its not a big deal to put someone at L-4 and i unvoted almost immediatly.

It's not your

vote

persay. It's how you went about it and how you reacted to a little bit of pressure once you made the vote. Here are my main points so hopefully you can understand and at least try to defend yourself;


1. You told the town you would vote me. Then when Muffin says it's scummy

not

to be voting, you vote Coug. This is opportunistic voting because you are jumping onto a wagon and calling it a 'random vote.'

2. When someone calls your vote suspicious you immediately unvote. LITERALLY immediately. This is more appeasement to the town.

3. Your reactions after the vote as I continued to pressure you were way to defensive for the case I was presenting.

4. When I asked you who you were suspicious of, you mimed Karma and Muffin and said that I had made some unnecessary questions. You didn't offer any reasoning of your own.

5. Your defense of the Coug vote is literally impossible to imagine being a possibility. Not being able to spell Clock is a horrible excuse. If you can spell opportunistic almost correctly, then you can spell Clockwork.

[This list is also the TL;DR portion of this post.]

Do you understand it a little better now?

[ClockworkRuse]

Discussion is currently revolving around:

- StrangerCoug's random vote on himself (which is the second vote for him)
- MafiaMann's third vote on SC (second if you don't count SC's own vote) which some people think is opportunistic to start a wagon
- some people think SC's random vote is scummy, some think it's a null-tell
- SC complains when more votes pile on him, so does ClockworkRuse (Clock says it's because the wagon is too quick and scum-driven, and this wagon draws discussion away from other things)

Is this all?

Welcome to the game Jonathantan86. Have anything useful to add besides what's going on in the town? With three posts in the game, I would think you would be able to re-read five pages and form some opinion rather then trying to get someone to confirm everything for you.

It's not that I'm against people being at L-3 or L-4, it's that I'm against people being at those numbers on the second/third page for little reason.

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two...

2 votes... your telling me 2 votes is adequate pressure? Thats BS is what it is. who's going to react to 2 votes? If it was still in the random stage on page 2, thats completely different. I'd say its a minor scum tell to say you want to limit pressure to 2 votes because the town would never learn anything helpful. When is it acceptable to place more than 2 votes? page 3? page 4? how can you place a limit based on page numbers. I'd think the content and pace of game should determine how much pressure is appropriate.

[ Cougs self vote got the game going very rapidly. He deserved pressure so he would be forced to justify his actions.

It was my personal opinion, think of it what you will to be honest. Maybe I can explain it a little bit better;

The wagons yesterday were being pushed way to fast, I felt that people were pushing the random lynch [as discussion was just barely picking up at the point IIRC] and I decided that I needed to draw at least some attention to it. If it made me seem suspicious, so be it. I don't care if you say that 'There was no threat of a lynch though!'because to me I felt that some pressure needed to be applied. Lucky I did too, because I think we caught Mafiamann.


That being said Rhinox, very good posting by you. This game might teach me more then I thought it would about hunting.

Nice post Rhinox.

unvote

I'm unvoting because I think that Clock has made an overall better case against MafiaMann than I have against TPT, and if I read the case properly, it looks like for Clock's case against to have ground, TPT would probably not be scum in order for MM to be going for an opportunistic wagon.

Backing Clock's case:

vote MafiaMann

Don't just ditch a case against some one, save it for later. He may very well have been bussing so keep what ever reactions, posts, or actions that Coug has said and keep them in mind. Don't just write him off as town. Just saying.

Do i have to claim soon

I would say yes, it would be good for you to claim soon. Plus, please add any flavor your pm might have because the rules state the scum have been given safe-claims.

*nod*

That's what I was looking for, just some sort of evaluation on your part by him, because at the point in time that I posted it originally, neither of you had commented on each other .

I -would- like to see more explanation and reasons of why Ectomancer jumped on mafiamann with very little reason besides my own and the previous vote on him.

Opportunistic much? I admit a bit WIFOM to suggest overeager bussing, but I do believe he has not played too terribly much here.

Your reasoning? Well, let's take a closer look at 'your reasoning.'

bogre wrote:
Ectomancer had weak reasons to vote Strangercoug.

Admittedly selfvoting is idiotic but its a null tell, really.

Mafiamann's unwillingness to vote is quite scummy, as well.


This post screams to me as facade of activity without providing any content...

coug wrote:
Bogre wrote:
Mafiamann's unwillingness to vote is quite scummy, as well.

I don't consider conservative play like this scummy per se.


Its not conservative play, its denying the town its best weapon early in the game - the power of votes. Imagine if all 12 of us said in our first post: "I'm not going to vote because random votes don't mean anything and I don't find anyone scummy" How would the game get started? How would the town ever get any information? Thats why not voting is scummy. IMO, self-voting is exactly the same thing as not voting.

So I don't post content, yet you agree with my accusation? *boggle*. As for the lurkerish comments, as I have stated in other threads I am on vacation, and for the past three days have been in travel from one place to the next. The past two times I've been on a comp I have posted. They have been a bit anemic, but that was because they were on a borrowed computer. They also point to a lot of different people because a lot of players in this game have done suspicious things so far, and I mentioned the ones I felt have. Take note that you have just done what you accuse me of doing, except you threw more words in between the spaces. I personally don't have any problem with seeing people point out what they see is scummy over a mass of other players.

Rhinox, I would like to hear your opinions on muffinman, and hear those of muffinman on you. Notice that Muffin has not answered anything I said.

Cass put it very well: Mafiamann's tactic is a tactic of appeasement. This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest scumtells, and deserving of my concentration.

Unvote

Vote: Mafiamann

Is this your case against Mafiamann?

Well, first I'd like to point out that Cass

has

no case against Mafiamann. In fact, he said

Pro-tip for Mafiamann: if you can't spell a word, use copy/paste.

That's practically the only time he's addressed MM. I think there was one other time, but it was barely significant if I'm remembering it right.

Strike one for being an uninformed player.

Second, you don't present a case. You backed mine. So saying that Ecto was being opportunistic for following

your

reasoning sounds like an attempt to get credit where credit

isn't

due.

Strike two, for trying to take credit for a case that you didn't present.

And before this post, you had barely hunted at all. With a grand total of eight posts in this forum, including your confirm, I see you parroting other cases without adding anything to your own.

Strikes three and four for active lurking and parroting.

Major FoS Borge

- For the reasons mentioned above.
Please note that this FoS is much more based on your parroting and active lurking then the other two strikes, but I feel they are well worth mentioning.

Minor FoS Johnny-Boy

for having a grand total of three posts at page six, lurking and posting almost useless information. I'd also like to point out to everyone who believes that not voting during the random stage, that he hasn't voted once all game.


As for calling Ecto opportunistic, I don't know if I would buy that. In my opinion, when a good case is presented that has covered everything or mostly everything that can be said, you can't really add anything while voting. I have no reason to suspect Ecto. As;

1. He's been hunting with good reason.
2. Supplying the town with good answers to any question given.
3. Applying pressure where he believes it deserves to be and not where someone says it should be. AKA Not being led by someone.

This does not mean I am writing him off as town. Everyone is scum until proven otherwise.

[ClockworkRuse]

There is no more flavor in your pm in that? Nothing at all that might separate you from scum?

[ClockworkRuse]

Well after some research i did on the show Zaphod is the head meerkats husband if that means anything. if anyone else has a counterclaim go for it.

That's not from your role PM, so no that doesn't help. And at this point a counter-claim could be very bad in my opinion. Is there

any

flavor in your PM besides what you've posted?


@Borge, Understandable. As I said, my FoS isn't because you mixed our names. It's that you've been mainly parroting all game and actively lurking which is almost as big of a scumtell as appeasement. How do you plan on answering that?

[ClockworkRuse]

It says you are a loyal whisker you have no night powers and watch out for threats.

Which is exactly what the example role says on the front page.

I'm comfortable with a MafiaMann lynch now.

[ClockworkRuse]

You're killing me here Rhinox. Go back and look at ClockWorks posts and see who is the one digging for Power Roles.

There is no more flavor in your pm in that? Nothing at all that might separate you from scum?

Well after some research i did on the show Zaphod is the head meerkats husband if that means anything. if anyone else has a counterclaim go for it.

That's not from your role PM, so no that doesn't help. And at this point a counter-claim could be very bad in my opinion.

Is there

any

flavor in your PM besides what you've posted?

Bolded by me.

This isn't flip-flopping. This is going after scumtells. This is altering your theories based upon new evidence. I didnt like that little exchange by ClockWork with MafiaMann.....at all. It looks to me like he pressing MM to go ahead and reveal if he actually has a power, but wanted to hold back yet, OR, he is looking to see if there might be any extra flavor type addition to a traditional town role just in case. In addition, the example PM by the mod is for a vanilla townie. If ClockWork wants to claim a Power Role later (roleblocker for example) as scum, he would want to know how that flavor sounds from the mod prior to making his claim.

Now do you see why I found his hard pressing for more flavor suspicious enough for a vote? Weak reasoning? Go insult someone else.

You tell me that I shouldn't be absolutely sure that he is claiming correctly. With his horrible reasoning this far in the game, I wanted to be one hundred percent sure of his claim. I was also hoping that maybe because he was a different role [technically speaking as the the name is different] then the one of the front page that maybe there would have been something just a little bit different.

And I'm hunting for power-roles based on your poor reasoning. If I re-read you, I'm not going to find you hunting for roles am I?


@Coug; Might I ask what these 'panicky actions' are?


@Borge; Your opinion depends on if MM flips scum or not and I don't like the fact that you are already talking about tomorrow's lynch today.

[ClockworkRuse]

ClockworkRuse, in your third post of the game, you threw an FoS on not only me but two of the people bandwagoning me. In addition, two votes isn't a lot of pressure—it's actually a bit on the safe side in the random voting stage. In my opinion, though, for three votes on the same person (in a mini, anyway), you need a good reason; however, I think we pretty much agreed to disagree on this point.

...Why are we still discussing the random voting stage at this point?

Because you brought it up. You said you were going to watch me because of 'panicky actions'and I asked why. So it is

you

using that stage as as leverage, not I.

You're killing me here Rhinox. Go back and look at ClockWorks posts and see who is the one digging for Power Roles.

There is no more flavor in your pm in that? Nothing at all that might separate you from scum?

Well after some research i did on the show Zaphod is the head meerkats husband if that means anything. if anyone else has a counterclaim go for it.

That's not from your role PM, so no that doesn't help. And at this point a counter-claim could be very bad in my opinion.

Is there

any

flavor in your PM besides what you've posted?

Bolded by me.

You see, MM already claimed, and Clock is still voting MM. I interpret Clock pressing for more flavor as sort of saying "are you sure thats all you've got, because thats not enough of a reason to back off". I don't view looking for more flavor out of a claim as hunting for power roles - what I do view as hunting for power roles is looking for lots of role claims.

Thank you. At least someone in here has half a brain, no offense Ecto. You really need to weigh the possibilities of things before you post.

Here is the EXACT REASONING I used when looking at his claim, or any claim for that matter;

1. Is there anything from this that is different from the post at the beginning of the game?
2. Is there anything in this claim that would make be feel that pushing for a lynch isn't safe?
3. Is there anything in the claim that isn't believable?

As he posted all the information given in the first post, I had to at least PUSH for a little bit more. Anything he had that could save him from a lynch.


Let me say this, and I've said it before in a few games.

I hate pushing mislynches.

I understand that it's impossible not to as I have no idea what anyone's role is, but I just feel disgusting after I do it. It's the reason I suck as scum and it's the reason I wanted at least something else to go off of.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: MafiaMann

. If we assume that the random voting stage stopped with my self-vote, which most of us seem to, then his voting me out of appeasement and for his inability to spell ClockworkRuse's name, which happened after said self-vote, makes no sense. When he finally did vote ClockworkRuse at post #145, he failed to give a reason. I'm sorry, but lame excuses, a lack of reasoning, and popping your head in and out of the game is scummy.

I find ClockworkRuse somewhat believable, especially later on, but

IGMEOY: ClockworkRuse

anyway for his earlier, somewhat panicky actions.

if/when clock flips scum, I know exactly where my vote is going next.

So, the lurker decides to speak? And exactly what is your reasoning for suspecting me? Because a possible scum is keeping his eye on me?


@Johnny-Boy, The case on Mafiamann is not that he couldn't spell 'Clock' or that he was trying to start a wagon. Because first, he didn't start a wagon he joined one. This is opportunistic voting. Then there are two cases of appeasment against him as he only voted because someone said not voting in the RVS is scummy and how he unvoted when his vote was called into question. His claim is basically vanilla, which I can't exactly buy as it's pretty much the exact same thing as it is on the front page.


No, I am not cleared. Don't ever assume that I am. SC was not in danger of being lynched but by questioning that wagon we found Mafiamann.

For the counter-claim; It is known that scum have safe-claims. If counter-claiming would out a power-role, I think that would be very bad. Do you not agree? I decided I didn't want to see anyone take that chance.

If Zaphod wants to counter-claim, go ahead. I'll give it one day [real time, not game time] before I state anything else on the matter.

I'll have more information later, I have to leave soon as it is.

[ClockworkRuse]

Huh? In what situation is a counter claim even possible? Waiting for that just makes no sense...

A counter-claim might be possible. Read the rules and you'll understand.


And I'm asking for the role named Zaphod to counterclaim if there is one. It's not a player in this game, as you can see from any vote-count. If there is a counter-claim they should speak up now unless they have a power-role.

[ClockworkRuse]

Bah!

[ClockworkRuse]

I'm just going to say, that was the most unfortunate kill I've ever made. D=

And I'm disappointed that MafiaMann wasn't scum.